Voiceover: Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self-paced, and mastery-based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. 


Toni Rose: Hello, and welcome to episode 86 of the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanna. She/her pronouns, and I'm in the same space as Zach. Once again, I swear, it seemed like we were recording last month's Q and A just yesterday. Hi, Zach. 


Zach: Hi, Tony Rose. How are you doing? 


Toni Rose: You know, today has been rough, but I'm here. I made it. We're just going to celebrate that. How are you? 


Zach: I'm doing all right. It's funny that you say that because last month we were like, it's been so long since we recorded together, and then this month just flew by. 


Toni Rose: I know. It was wild. I was like, oh, my gosh, we're doing another Q and A already. April is, like almost over. 


Zach: Yeah. And it's just like time, I can't figure out this year. Everything is weird this year. But anyway, here we are. We're here for a feedback and Q and A episode. 


Toni Rose: Great. Do you want to start out with feedback, Zach? 


Zach: Sure. So last month I had asked the listeners to send us any ideas or thoughts that they had on keeping both physical and digital trackers in their modern classrooms. And we got one really cool email from a teacher who, she sent pictures of her physical wall tracker. And we were going back and forth a little bit by email. It's very cool. One thing that she does, which I thought was a really creative idea, was to use her students' Class Dojo avatars as the little pieces that move along the gameboard tracker, which is first of all, super creative. Like, you already have a little picture for them. But also I thought it was a really cool way to anonymize students. She actually doesn't do that. She puts their names on them. I think maybe a couple of students, she said, have picked the same avatar. So you have to deal with the little details. But we're always looking for interesting ways to anonymize pacing trackers. And I thought that was a really good one. In terms of keeping it in sync with her digital tracker, the message that I sort of came away with was that sort of the truth. The true data is in the digital tracker, so that's the one that gets updated on a daily basis. That's the one that she uses to really run her Modern Classroom. But the kids get to move their avatars on the board, and that's motivating for them. And she uses it to sort of as a public display of the data. While the actual true data lives in the digital tracker in like a database where it's much more useful. And that's what I was saying. I sort of really rely on that digital repository of class data. One thing that she and I were talking about also is that this would not necessarily work in a much, much bigger class or in a teacher who has multiple sections of the same class. It would be a little bit more challenging to keep different trackers in sync. But Toni Rose, you were telling me before we started recording that you actually have seen some teachers who are able to do this with multiple different sections. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. And that's a good point, right. I think the teacher that you were talking about, Zach, was an elementary school teacher. Right. So they only had one class.


Zach:  I think that's right. Yes. 


Toni Rose: Okay, good. And also, listeners, in case you don't know, Class Dojo is kind of like this reward system. It's a great way to celebrate your students. They earn points, and it's really great that they have such a good time with Class Dojo. I used it in middle school. So you don't have to just use it in elementary. You can also use it in middle school if you are interested in looking into that. And so I guess before I answer that question, Zach had a follow-up question with the digital tracker. Was that just the teacher's own copy or did she share it with anyone else? 


Zach: She didn't tell me if she shared the digital copy with anyone else, but she also said that she uses individual trackers for the students. And actually, I'm sorry to derail you a little bit here, but another really cool thing that she mentioned was that she sort of differentiates by just letting students use it or not. I thought that was a cool way of looking at that through the lens of differentiation. The individual tracker, like, some students will use it religiously, while other students may not use it at all. And it just depends on each student's needs. But in terms of sharing the digital data, I don't think that we talked about that. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. And that's really important, too, right? Providing that option because like you said, some students really find it useful to have an individual tracker, while some were like, oh, my gosh, it's just one more thing for me to keep track of. I was definitely that teacher that said I cannot do individual trackers because I'm not going to look at it. So I know my students will probably not utilize it if I keep forgetting it, right? 


Zach: Yeah, totally. I'm that way, too.


Toni Rose: Yeah. So, I mean, if it works for you, great. You don't necessarily have to do it if it does not work for you. And so let's talk about making the physical trackers work in multiple sections. So in elementary school, of course, you only have one group of students. And so with secondary, so middle school and high school, you have different sections. And what I've seen when I visited classrooms is that it's a tracker on the board and it's just separated using different colors, different magnets, different Post-it notes just so that students in each section can see where they are, where they land. Right. So there's one particular teacher that I checked out who taught, I believe, two types of science. It was like an AP class and then just like a regular class, not necessarily an AP class. And it was really interesting to see the different physical tracker for that. And just students were able to move their names, wherever, whatever lesson that they're working on. And so it's definitely doable. Teachers just have a dedicated space for it, for the different sections. And some teachers have the different stickers, like I said, are different colors, different post-it notes. You could even print out the avatars, laminate them, and then have students move that along. Some teachers have used clips. So instead of it sticking, it's like a string. And then students can just move their clips and the different lessons that they're working on. But it's a really great way for students to get up and actually move themselves to the next level as opposed to the teacher doing it. And I do agree with the digital tracker as well, because I know that physical tracker, it's great for students to have it. And we also want to have that digital tracker to make sure that it's the most accurate tracker that's available. And I would even push and say that I would share that with all stakeholders involved. So the physical tracker is there, but the digital tracker is also there for students, for caregivers, for Admin, for any co-teachers, any of that. So it could definitely work. It just depends on whether you want to put forth the effort to making it work. 


Zach: Yes. And another big thing that we talked about was sort of keeping them in sync. If the truth is in the cloud, so to speak. if the truth is in the digital tracker, I asked this teacher, do you reconcile them weekly or daily or what? I'll read you her response, because I think this clarifies a lot of what we were talking about. She says, “with my 24 5th graders, I was able to reconcile it daily. I used to teach middle school ELA and social studies for 15 years and did my first half-year of MCP in middle school English. And I probably wouldn't do a physical tracker with multiple classes.” And so I think that the reconciliation piece here and keeping the two in sync. That's where for me, the stress begins. It's like I have two sort of sets of the same data, and if they get out of whack, it becomes sort of unwieldy and hard to wrap my brain around. But this is definitely something that came across. What you were saying is having the kids get up and do it themselves, move their little avatar or their name or whatever it is on the board that can be super motivating, especially with younger kids. 


Toni Rose: Oh, my gosh, definitely. Zach, can we just give a quick shout-out to this teacher? This implementer who shared. 


Zach: Yeah. So this teacher's name is Megan Kindred. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. And it's actually kind of great because Megan was my mentee. Oh, Hi, Megan. Thank you for sharing and thank you for listening. Appreciate you. Awesome. 


Zach: So shall we jump into some of these questions for the Q and A portion here? 


Toni Rose: Yeah, let's do that. So the first question let's start with motivation. I feel like motivation is a huge hot topic right now, especially the school year wrapping up and just another pandemic teaching. Right. And so what do you do when the type of teaching you want to be doing doesn't match up with the students you are working with? So really, how do you motivate your students? This is a brand new instructional model. It's a new way of learning and teaching. And so some students need a lot more support, I would say. And so how do you motivate students? 


Zach: It's interesting. The way the question is written, it makes me think, does the way that I want to be teaching match up with what my students are looking for in a class makes me think more about like leveraging the flexibility of the model to differentiate the class. And when I say the class, I mean everything about the class, the structure of the class to each student's needs. I think that the thing, the biggest, I guess, quote unquote mismatch with students is that a lot of students will say, well, not a lot, but some students will say, you don't teach me, you're not teaching me. You just have all these Edpuzzles. Right. And I always turn it back around on them and I ask, are you learning? Because that's the real question. It's not about whether I'm doing my job. It's about whether you're doing your job. Right. And usually that makes them realize that it's not about whether I'm standing at the front of the room delivering a lecture. Right. It's about doing the work and learning the content. But that's really more of a sort of a class structure kind of a thing and not so much related to motivation because those students may or may not be motivated to succeed by whatever motivates them. I would say that the biggest thing with motivation, and I feel like this is a real teacher cliche to say this, but is to build relationships with them and also to realize that on some days they just might not be motivated and you should not feel like you have failed if you don't manage to motivate every single student every single day. But the relationships come into play on those days when kids aren't motivated because instead of getting into a power struggle with them or getting into a fight with them over you're not doing the work sort of discussions. You can just have a conversation with them and then they see you as a real person and you see them as a real person. And so you're on a level with them where they will be willing to do your work. Maybe on a different day. I feel like I have learned how to sit down with a kid who is not actively working right now and have a discussion with them that will motivate them to at least consider starting the work just by sort of talking them through it and not forcing them into it. This feels very like wishy-washy to me. And I don't feel like it's a very actionable answer. But in some ways, I also feel like it's the right thing to do just because I feel disingenuous when I'm forcing a kid who clearly isn't up to it right now to work because that's not treating them like a human being. And so I always feel bad to do that. And I don't feel like the work is worth it if the kid is not in that space. I feel like it's choosing the right moment to try and motivate the kid and motivating the kid through kindness and relationship building and not through forcing them into the work. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. And I have to push back on that. Zach, when you were talking about it's wishy-washy, it's actually not wishy-washy to establish a relationship with students. That's definitely a next step that people can, that implementers, teachers all over could really implement. Right. And so when we talk about motivation, there's intrinsic and there's extrinsic motivators. Right. And so if we think about reward system and trying to coerce our students to do what they need to do, I'm not a fan of those extrinsic rewards. I get the need for them. I get the want and the desire for those extrinsic rewards. I do really solely focus on intrinsic motivators. Right. So really establishing that relationship with students and getting to know them as human beings, as students, as students outside, as just a person really, and trying to figure out what they're interested in. And so that I can see, hey, I can put this in the curriculum or even just putting their names in some of the problems, some of the practice and just to kind of get them more bought in and even just inviting them to basically be a part of the process, like, hey, how do you want your learning to look like to look? And I feel like Modern Classroom really allows that to happen because we're not lecturing in front of the class anymore. Right. And so really getting to know your students, really getting them to buy in and just listening with an open ear of like, hey, how do you want your teaching and learning to look? And what can I do as your facilitator, as your guide to get you to learn these skills that you can utilize outside of the classroom. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to do relationship building. Right. Especially if there's a lot of tension between the student and the teacher that can be really challenging. And there was one thing, Zach, I don't know if you remember, but when we worked together at the same school, we had an activity where we were forced, not forced, but encouraged to have lunch with a student who we did not have a relationship with. Do you remember that? 


Zach: Yes. The empathy interviews. 


Toni Rose: Yes, the empathy interviews. That's what it was called. And it was so beautiful because I picked a student, we just butted heads like he wasn't going to do any work and I wasn't going to budge. And we had to do that empathy interview. And everything changed. I literally spent maybe ten, 15 minutes with this child. I bought him food, and we just talked about life. And ever since then, it changed. Something shifted. And it was so great. 


Zach: Yeah, totally. And I feel like the reason that I said that my answer was wishy-washy was because, I think that sort of the gist of this question is like the hidden question here is how can I get my students to do my work more? And the reason that I come to it with such a noncommittal answer is that I don't think that necessarily has to always be the priority. 


Toni Rose: Got it.


Zach: Yeah. And I guess I don't have any particular tricks that are in the structure of my class that I use to motivate kids Besides just sitting down and talking with them. And I guess it's not wishy-washy. You're right. That's the thing that I actually do and that teachers can do. But every time it looks different because it's a conversation with a different person or even the same person, it's a different conversation. And so it's not like a couple of months ago we had Sam on to do the Q and A with me. Listeners may remember that. And she brought three or four very cool and very concrete and specific strategies that she uses. I'll link the episode in the show notes if people want to go and check that one out for a much more concrete answer to this kind of question. Again, in that same episode, I answered a similar question with a similarly noncommittal answer. And it's just because my priority is not getting kids to do the work all the time. It's about getting them to enjoy being in school and enjoy learning and enjoy being there. They might not always enjoy everything that I put in front of them. And so it's difficult for me to try and force motivation on my students because it feels like I'm not treating them like the human being that they are. 


Toni Rose: Right. And I think also keeping in mind some of our students, there are barriers there that we'll never understand because of trauma, because of whatever our students are going through. And so really trying to figure out and sometimes our education system hasn't been that friendly to students, to a certain type of student, a certain demographic of students. Right. And so the thought of like, oh, here's a different way of learning and teaching, and I've just been sitting here doing nothing. Of course you're going to get some pushback. Of course you're going to get some students who are saying like, no, you're not teaching, you're not doing your job, because this is all very different. And sometimes they've just had really negative experiences with school. And so, like, what Zach was saying, getting to know them as a human being, they'll feel heard and valued, and then maybe that'll change their mind about how they approach their teaching and learning journey. 


Zach: Yeah, at least that's sort of how I feel. And it feels like when I'm actually doing it, it feels more authentic than when I used to teach traditionally. And I was like, we all have to be quiet now. All 25 of you have to be quiet now, because I'm going to talk. And it never really worked.


Toni Rose: I can't believe we used to do that, Zach. 


Zach: I know. I look back and I just think I shudder when I think of myself doing that. 


Toni Rose: No. Same. 


Zach: All right. You want to move out of the realm of the abstract and into something much more concrete? This next question. 


Toni Rose: Yeah, let's do it. 


Zach: All right. I like this question a lot. I don't think we've ever answered this kind of question before. It says, what do your guided notes look like? 


Toni Rose: So Interestingly enough, this is an unpopular opinion. I did not have guided notes. I think I've said this before a couple of times. And I always tell implementers and new teachers who are starting out and implementing this model is that guided notes for me, now, mind you, this is my own lived experiences. My students. I taught students at the IEP was 504 who are merchant multilinguals. And so I had a pretty diverse group of students. And so I noticed that the guided notes were more of a distraction for them rather than, like focusing on the content. So what that means is I had a six-minute video. It would take them 30 minutes to do because they're trying to do their guided notes. And so I did away with that. And of course, there's also that whole having split-screen and having to pause the video, and there's just a lot of interruptions that are happening. And multitasking is not really the way to go for me. I'm working on that as an adult, and I didn't want my students to multitask, like listening, watching, and also writing. And so what I did was cheat sheets, actually. So at the end of each video, there was a cheat sheet, a one page summary of what was covered in the video, and my students utilized that a lot. Actually, they referenced back to it so in case they didn't feel like re-watching the video, like they've already met their goal for the video. Right. I told my students 70%, you can move forward. They can go back to that cheat sheet and just refer back to it as much as possible. And my students really enjoyed having that cheat sheet. And so I understand that some schools have mandated Cornell notes or whatever else note-taking skill that they need to have. And so just being super intentional with what you want your students to write down. And keeping in mind, too, that a lot of the times we as teachers assume that the grade before us taught the students how to take notes. That is a lie. Don't think that, you have to teach your students how to take notes almost every year, even if it's just a refresher reminder just so that they have an understanding of what that's supposed to look like. And so if you're going to have guided notes and some of you are mandated to have guided notes, please teach your students how to do your guided notes. And also being super intentional. You don't want your students to write every single thing down. You want to model it, and then you want to be intentional with it. 


Zach: Yeah, absolutely. A couple of things that I would say in response to what you said. First of all, I've seen a five-minute video become a 20 minutes video experience because of kids writing down the notes in the video, like in pausing and stopping and writing and then starting again and stopping again. I don't think that that's necessarily productive. I'm speculating here and maybe Kareem will correct me, but I think that in a math class where things are being written on graphs and equations are being written down, guided notes do make a lot of sense. And I do say that speculatively. But I also have some things in my class that are very visual and I can draw them. And I like to have the students copy the drawings that I do just because that's the concept that I'm teaching. But I used to have my students write down the sentences that I was writing in the video. I write the sentences in the video because I want them to appear sort of dynamically in an animated way on the screen as opposed to just having a bunch of static text on the screen. I think writing it live in the video is more interesting and more visually appealing and keeps their attention a little bit better. But having them actually write those sentences themselves would mean them stopping. And you mentioned this like they had to keep stopping and writing and then getting back into it. And this is the phase when they're supposed to be learning that content. And it's a short video. So if it's a three-minute or four-minute, five-minute concept that I'm teaching. I don't want it to take them half of a 50 minutes class just to get through the video. I want them to be getting into the work and doing the work using the concepts creatively. And so I do have them take guided notes. But I've definitely pulled back on the sort of just like writing down my sentences. The guided notes packets that I give my students are literally just the slides that I show in my videos printed out but with a couple of words like redacted, and then underlined for them to write. So it'll say a sentence typed on the slide. And then there will be a word or two missing, and I'll have them write that into their guided notes. Even then, they still have to pause the video and fill it in. But it's not like a huge writing undertaking, and I don't require my students to do guided notes. I sort of unlock the highest grade tiers. At my school, we teach using the MYP, the IBMYP, and so the grades are out of eight. The seven and eight grade levels are unlocked by taking guided notes. Otherwise, I grade you out of six, and a six is still a pretty good grade. So you can get a six in my class and not take guided notes. I don't require it, and many students choose not to take them. They actually say, I don't mind getting the six. I don't want to do these. And another thing that you said, which is that you found that some students weren't useful for your students. They were just sort of busywork. I've also found that and so I've been really trying to simplify and make the guided notes an actual useful exercise because sometimes the kids will just like, watch the video, take the notes, and then put the notes back in the notes folder at the front of the room and do the work without their notes. And then I'm like, well, why did I make you do that? Was there any reason for you to take those notes? Because now you're just doing the work without them. Maybe there was. Maybe it helped them to internalize the video, but they're not using their notes as they work, which is sort of what I expected when I first started Modern Classrooms. I guess the simple answer to the question is my guided notes are just the slides I show the kids with some words, redacted and some places to write some things in. But progressively I've been simplifying them more and more. So there's less and less to do. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. And thank you for that, Zach. In the show notes, listeners, you'll see there's a guide on guided notes that we came up with. And so just to be, again, super intentional and making sure that your guided notes are meaningful and purposeful and not just busywork. Because again, what is the purpose of guided notes? Right for our students to be able to refer back to them as much as possible. So creating a practice and a routine in the classroom is really important for that. I also am putting in the show notes, the retrieval notes. I'm a huge fan of retrieval notes. So basically, students watch the video first, and then they write down everything they remember. I like that practice a lot more than them writing as they're watching, just because I feel like, okay, now I can see what the students really got out of that video. And so then I would have those conversations with students one on one. Tell me more about your notes and what you gathered from the video. And that was also a really cool thing. Sketch noting is another really cool way to do notes. So I had all these options for my students, and I also had the cheat sheet for them. And so I didn't say don't take guided notes. I said, you're more than welcome to take notes while you're watching this video. Here are all the other options. Also know that there will be a cheat sheet for you. So my students have those options. So you'll see the resources in the show notes. 


Zach: Yeah. That cheat sheet is a really cool idea because it's almost like here is the benefit of the guided notes without the busywork. Right. It's the reference if you want it. But you don't need to even reference it unless you need it. Right. But you also don't have to do the busy work of taking the notes. I've done it for you, which is super great. 


Toni Rose: Exactly. And all about transparency. Right. Like, what are students learning? So here's a resource that showcase and remind you what we're learning. And so as a teacher, I know that my mastery checks can't just be those lower level, the Blooms taxonomy, the lower level on the Blooms taxonomy. Right. I can't just say, hey, define this word. Sometimes you need to do that for vocabulary. But in my cheat sheet, it had to be more applying so that they're consistently transferring those skills. So now you identified, you defined the words, but now let's apply it. So instead of just asking for a definition, students were writing letters or writing sentences about using those words or whatever. Right. So again, as a teacher, it pushed me because you have this cheat sheet. Of course, the mastery check is going to be a mastery check where you're applying your skill and not just copying and pasting from the cheat sheet. Yes. And so I'll link one of my examples of my cheat sheet in the show notes as well. 


Zach: Awesome. So shall we move on to the next question? 


Toni Rose: Yeah, let's do it. So the next question. Zach, what are some of your favorite tech tools? 


Zach: Wow. I might be the worst person to ask this question to because I'm a big tech nerd, first of all. And also, it's going to involve the way that I make my videos and my tech tools for making videos are not the recommended tech tools for making videos in the Modern Classrooms way. Let's see, the physical hardware tools that I use are my iPad and my laptop. The iPad I use for making instructional videos with Explain Everything. Explain Everything, for listeners who don't know, is sort of like an iPad whiteboard in a sense. Like, you can put slides into Explain Everything, and then you can annotate on it. I was just talking about how I write things on the slides. That's how I do it with Explain Everything and it records sort of like you're recording a video, but it records as you're annotating the slide, and it also records your microphone. So you can basically deliver your lecture as if you were actually lecturing it and then as if you were writing on the whiteboard, but you write on your iPad and you record with the microphone. So Explain Everything is really great. I know a lot of Modern Classrooms teachers who that's their entire video workflow. Like they make their videos and Explain Everything. There's some basic editing you can do in there, too. I don't, I actually export it to my computer, where I then use something like Imovie. I actually use Final Cut now because I make my videos in a much more sophisticated way, which has been fun for me to learn just as a hobby. But again, I don't recommend doing that, like exporting them from Explain Everything and then editing and doing voiceovers and stuff like that. For deploying the videos, I use Edpuzzle, and that's actually pretty much it. I use Google Slides, Google Classroom, very standard teacher stuff for running my class in the tech sense. But yeah, like, my Modern Classroom is basically built on Explain Everything, Final Cut, and Edpuzzle. I have lots and lots and lots of favorite tech tools, but I decided to limit it to what I use for my Modern Classroom because otherwise we would be here for another hour. 


Toni Rose: I feel like that just is an episode itself, right? 


Zach: Yes. 


Toni Rose: And those are all great tech tools. Some of them have never used. I'm a huge fan of Padlet. I love Padlet just so you can see thinking visible. I love Flipgrid because I think students can have so much fun with Flipgrid, as well as Parlay Ideas for discussion. So check those three tools out. 


Zach: Yeah, I'm adding all of this to the Show Notes, which are now getting very long. And so definitely check out the Show Notes for this episode, which you can find at Podcast.Modernclassrooms.org/86. Or if you're listening to this in a podcast player, they should show there, too. So definitely check out the Show Notes, because this one is good. Shall we move on to the next question? 


Toni Rose: Yeah, let's do it. 


Zach: Okay. This is definitely a question for you and not for me. It says, how can you teach novels while also self-pacing? 


Toni Rose: Oh, my gosh. Again, this is another episode that we're planning on doing. Right, Zach? 


Zach: Yeah. And I don't have an answer. This one's all you. 


Toni Rose: Yeah. I'm just going to make it super short and super sweet. With self-pacing. I would really focus on the lesson classification of novels. Right. So as an English teacher, of course, we would love it if our students read from every word and every page. But this is where the lesson classification can be in. So your must dos are like the most important chapters that they have to read. And then they should do would be to read certain chapters to enhance their knowledge and understanding of the chapters that we must read together. And then the aspire to do is to read the entire book. Right. So the lesson classifications really tie in here really well. And then, of course, keeping in mind, too, for example, I spoke with a teacher. Hi, Brittany. Where we said she said that students read four chapters a week at least, or no more than four chapters a week. And so it's still self-pacing in a way where students know that they have to read those four chapters by Sunday. So regardless of what day it is, that's what they're working on. So on Monday, they have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday to read, but they know that they could sit in one sitting and read the four chapters that they need. And so in the class, what that looks like is then creating, having those instructional videos where they talk about the content and the skills and having open-ended questions that students can still participate regardless of whatever chapter they're in. And then, of course, having supplemental text is really cool as well. So if you know that there's a topic that's covered in chapter one, you can have a supplemental text. And so even if students are not, have not read chapter one, when they do read chapter one, they'd be like, oh, we read about this in our supplemental text. So that's all I'm going to say for right now. That's just some ideas to kind of get you started. 


Zach: Can I ask you a strange question? 


Toni Rose: Ask away. 


Zach: How would you teach a novel while not self-pacing? Like kids read at such different speeds? I'm a pretty slow reader, and I know people who read really fast. Is it making a chapter due each day or something? How do you not self-pace when teaching a novel? 


Toni Rose: Reading it all together? Honestly? 


Zach: I see. 


Toni Rose: Yeah, that's what it would be. And I know when I was teaching, traditionally, it was we need to we're reading this chapter together. And then for homework, you read chapters 22 and 23. And then tomorrow we're going to read 25. So you better be ready for chapter 25. 


Zach: Right. And also, like, if you missed today's class, then you missed 22, right? 


Toni Rose: Exactly. 


Zach: You got to catch up. Yeah. Well, the last time that I experienced novel teaching in English was when I was in 12th grade. There you go. Thank you for that. Well, I'll help, but you will put that episode together, and I'm sure that English teachers out there will be very excited to hear that. 


Toni Rose: I'm really excited about that. 


Zach: And everything will be illuminated for me, who clearly knows nothing about teaching English. Anyway, should we move on to the next question? 


Toni Rose: Yeah, the next question. How can MCP work with standardized tests? 


Zach: Yeah. So I guess this one's interesting. So my class is not a high-stakes test to the class. I teach music. So I don't think about this that much. But what I would say is that in the same way that I have hard deadlines for the end of my projects, you have the hard deadline of the standardized test. Right. And you know when it's going to be. So knowing what's going to be on the test, you teach the stuff and you have the time frame, you more or less set the pace. And when students are behind, you know well in advance of the standardized test that students are behind and you can try and intervene and get them caught up before the test arrives. I feel like that's not really an answer to this specific question. It's just sort of how MCP works. That's what I do in my class. Right. Like it's not a standardized test or even a test at all. But when students are behind and I know that the project deadline is coming up in a week or in two weeks, I'll work with them more to try and get them to reach the deadline with a passing grade or with a really great project, even. And so I guess that would be my answer. As someone who does not teach a standardized tested class. 


Toni Rose: I love that answer. Zach, I echo everything you said. And even in ELA, which we are a high stakes class. Right. We even did a self-pacing unit for a week where students took a test that was very similar to PARK. So we had PARK. And so the students had a practice test, and it was all self-paced. We had videos on how to read and read the prompt for the writing part of the PARK exam. And so we just had a blast with it, actually. And we were fortunate enough it was unit three where we were talking about code talker. And so the sample test or whatever that the students were taking actually talked about code talkers. So it went beautifully with our unit. 


Zach: Cool. All right. Well, we have one more question here ready to move on to this last question. 


Toni Rose: Let's do it. 


Zach: All right. This one has come up a lot, and we've talked a lot about this on the podcast. And this is something that comes up a lot when talking about teaching. I think it says, how can I add more collaboration in my classes? 


Toni Rose: Oh, my goodness. Again, being super intentional. Right. When are students going to be working together? When are they not going to be working together? Some implementers that I've talked to, they said that in all tasks, everybody can work with someone. Right. Except for the mastery checks. The mastery check has to be an individual effort and not a team effort, which I completely agree with. And so when it comes to collaboration, you really, again, have to be intentional and making sure that it's meaningful. After that, when you have found your spots of where students are going to check in with each other or have a discussion or work together on a task, you also want to model how that looks like for students. Right. Keeping in mind that students have had virtual, quote, unquote school for a year and then, like COVID was happening a lot of the time, our students are really awkward with each other and so they prefer to have their cameras off and not talking. And so really, again, being super intentional with how collaboration looks in your class and then providing that space and time for students to practice it, to feel comfortable with collaborating with each other, and also just giving lots of guidance on how that could look. And so keeping in mind. Right, like with collaboration, I was speaking with Mentee, Arpan – hi! And so we were talking about how on Wednesdays, you could dedicate that time to just do collaborative activities. So it could be a debate, it could be a seminar, it could be a hands-on thing. But stopping your self-pacing for that day and coming together as a whole group to collaborate on specific skills and tasks that they can work on. So you can be intentional that way. I've had students watch videos together and have a discourse because again, I'm all about speaking. The more you talk about it, the more it will stick to your long-term memory. Right. And so it was just really, again, for me, intentional like, oh, this is a really hard concept for my students to understand. So they're definitely going to need time to process and talk about it. And so in my Edpuzzles, I would say pause, speak to a partner about what you just watched, what was your takeaway? What are you wondering? What are you lost and confused in whatever that is? But having those prompts for students to check in with each other is really important as well. If you have group work, creating a role for each member is also really important just so that everyone is held accountable for the responsibility that they have for that group work. And so if you have four people in a group, making sure that there's a role for each person and that they're holding their weight for that and not just one student is doing all of the work because I know sometimes as a student well, when I was a student, I hated group work because I just did all the work. And so creating clear, specific, transparent guidelines is really important for students when it comes to collaborative work. And also keeping in mind, too, that sometimes collaboration isn't just talking. So Jamboard is a really cool tool that you can utilize to collaborate, to have your students collaborate. And so if they're chatting or if they're working on a shared document together, that's still collaborating. So just keeping that in mind as well. So if you've been working or if you've been teaching traditionally and you are using collaborative strategies, continue to use those collaborative strategies. There's definitely a way to transfer those strategies into a Modern Classroom. So don't lose sight of those collaborative strategies that you had in your traditional classroom. 


Zach: Yeah. Wow. I have almost nothing to add. I feel like you hit all the points I was going to make and eloquently. So I don't have anything else to really add. I guess the one thing that I would say is that something that I often tell my mentees is collaboration is a component of the self-pacing module in the Modern Classrooms mentorship, which I think is interesting and a little bit unexpected, that collaboration, the idea of collaboration would be in the self-pacing part of the training. But it's really because at least in my experience and I always say this and I think that it's why it's in there is because you can leverage the different paces that your students are at to really get them to collaborate authentically and organically. You can look at all of the kids who are on lesson three and group them together. Or you can say this student is behind on lesson two and the other student is ahead on lesson five. So I'm going to pair them together. And it really makes it very clear, I think, in terms of supporting the student who's going to be helping the student who's ahead, it's very clear to say this student needs help with lesson two. And they might ask which one was less than two. And I'll say that was the one where you had to cut the region this way in soundtrack. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, I know how to do that. Let me show you how to do that. And so that's like real. They get together and the kid actually helps the other kids do it. And it doesn't feel forced and it doesn't feel inauthentic. It feels like, oh, yeah, I know this. Let me just show you. And they like that. So, yeah, I guess all the other things you said, I would just echo them. I would just say them again. But that would be boring because you already said them. 


Toni Rose: Those are great points, too, that I forgot. I mean, the pacing tracker definitely helps with collaboration. 


Zach: Yeah. It does. I always said that the pacing tracker is the sort of the centerpiece of my class and it really, really is. I look at it whenever I need to make a decision, whenever I'm like, what am I going to do now? Or if a student comes to ask me for help before I start helping them, I'll look at the tracker to see if there's somebody who I think can help them unless it's a question that really needs to be answered by me. But yeah, it really is. It's there and it's very useful in terms of getting them to collaborate in an organic and also a productive way. 


Toni Rose: Yeah, and that's it. 


Zach: Yeah. 


Toni Rose: And I think I would love to do an all-call. Zach, if you're okay with that. But listeners, if you have some collaborative strategies that have been working for you in your modern classrooms, Please share them. We would love to share it with our other listeners. Yes, absolutely. 


Zach: I would love that too. Perfect. 


Toni Rose: So, Zach, do you want to wrap us up? Yes, listeners, remember you can email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org. I guess I can say it again. Podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org/86. In this episode with a recap and transcript will be up on the blog on Friday so be sure to check there if you want that or you can check back in the show notes. I'll link them there as well on Friday, but with that thank you all so much for listening. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday. Bye, everyone.


Voiceover: Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org, and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn.Modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P-R-O-J. We are so appreciative of all you do for students and schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast.