Zach Diamond 0:03 Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Toni Rose Deanon 0:28 Hello, and welcome to episode 162 of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. My name is Toni Rose, Deanon, they/them pronouns, a Community Engagement Manager here at MCP and I am joined by a digital marketing manager for the National Board Eddie Santiago. Welcome, Eddie. Eddie Santiago 0:42 Hello, hello. Thank you for having me. Toni Rose, I believe in trying to get this for do for a little while now. I'm glad it was able to make it come to fruition. Toni Rose Deanon 0:51 Yes. And it's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. I know that you and I have sent a lot of emails to each other trying to really get this thing started. And so I'm just like, super stoked, because I have a lot of questions for you. But before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently, Eddie Santiago 1:10 Currently it's my nieces and nephews, I just found out I was just at a wedding this past weekend. And I found out that my sister is pregnant with a niece and also found out and also have my little niece, she's my other niece from Oh, and my other sister. She started preschool recently. So I've been getting a bunch of photos and videos of her just doing a bunch of skills and learning things. And it's been great. Toni Rose Deanon 1:32 Are you like the cool uncle? Eddie Santiago 1:34 They're all pretty young. So I'm trying to as long as I'm trying to build my persona around as being a cool, okay, I'll come to DC because what do go to these museums will do a couple of things. Toni Rose Deanon 1:44 Oh, I love that. I love that so much. I'm also trying to like, well, I don't like we don't have a lot of like, this is enough ease in my family just yet. But we're getting there. So I think I'm gonna just be that cool person in their lives? I don't know. But okay, well tell us more about who you are and how you started your education journey and how you got to where you are now. Eddie Santiago 2:04 Yeah, So My name is Eddie Santiago, born and raised in Springfield, Massachusetts. And I honestly got into this education stuff by complete mistake. I went to college for journalism. I went to West Virginia University, for I got my degree in journalism. I worked in local news prior to taking his job at the National Board. And then I got this job, because they called me I didn't even realize I applied. And I came down, killed the interview, and they hired me. And my first week on the job, they brought us out to San Diego for teacher engagement conference, or something they were putting on. And just the amount of energy and the amount of compassion and love and empathy that the teachers had in that room just gotten instant by and it was like, within my first week of being on the job. I just got instant by and large. Education is the space I need to be in to make improvements. And then as I've learned more over the years about the issues that come that come with education that are common with education that need to be resolved, is something that's become very important to me. A lot of teachers say it's a calling and I felt like this was my call and right. It was like I got this job. And then all of a sudden, this was my call into education. It wasn't a classroom teacher, but it was trying to fix education in a different way. Toni Rose Deanon 3:23 I really appreciate you sharing your story. journalism that was actually what I majored in, like what I got well, not majored in but what I got accepted in college for and then I shifted to education, because I just really, really loved anything and everything that dealt with education. So thank you for sharing that. And also like educators are a whole vibe. Like, I feel like Eddie Santiago 3:45 I always talk about like, I always give credit to my first black teacher. Miss Holmes, third grade, shout out Miss Holmes, third grade, Washington Elementary in Springfield, Massachusetts, was the first teacher that made me feel like I was a smart person that put me on the path to achieve and be where I'm at right now. So like, yeah, teachers are a vibe like, they make the whole world go, like no job is possible without them. Toni Rose Deanon 4:06 Yeah, and I completely agree with that. Like, they just brought me this brought something up for me. I went to a conference last year educator leaders of Color Conference, and one of their they're really, really, really dope, definitely check that out. But one of the questions that an organization was asking was, when was when did you have your first black teacher? And I didn't realize how much like, I didn't realize how many people hadn't had like a first black teacher until college right? Eddie Santiago 4:39 recently. What that is crazy. Toni Rose Deanon 4:42 Yeah, it is so wild to me, because so I was born in the Philippines and I moved to South Georgia and so South Georgia, like all of my teachers were black. So I was like, wait a minute, I was in third grade and I had black teachers and so I didn't know how like fortunate I was to have black Teachers already at such a young age, when there were so many folks who like, we're like, No, we got it. We got our first like black teacher in college. And I was just like, whoa, that's, I don't even know what to say to that. It's wild. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, educators, it was definitely my fifth grade teacher who inspired me to become an educator as well. And my parents did a whole number of like, trying not to get me to be a teacher, because they're just like, you know, it's not even, you're not going to get the respect that you need, you're not going to get the money. Like it was just a very, like, push back. Like, don't don't, don't get into education. But I'm really glad that I got into it, because I just like love everything and anything about it. Right. Toni Rose Deanon 5:43 Okay, so can you provide an overview of what national board certification for teachers is NBCT. Right. So and why it's considered a prestigious credential in the field of education. I know, but maybe our listeners don't know. And there's, we have a huge we have a huge pool of teachers as well who are NBCT, like certified. And so this is really exciting for y'all to be in this space with us. But for listeners who have no idea, can you just give us a little bit more information about that? Eddie Santiago 6:12 Yeah, for sure. So there's gonna be a little bit of a history lesson here. So back in 1983, there was a landmark report called A Nation at Risk. That detailed there was a rising tide of mediocrity amongst teachers, and education system that threatened to impact America's future. And in response, there was a taskforce put together of policymakers, educators, teachers, associations, and business leaders, and then that convening to figure out the problems. And then in 1987, the National Board was founded. It was not founded in a follow up report in 1987, the National Board was established as the professions vehicle for defining and recognizing accomplished teachers. And now we have NBCT, 35-36 years later, we have around 133,000, educators that I have achieved national board certification, and the numbers are increasing more and more every year started off pretty low, obviously, when it started, but now, last year, we reached record candidates of people going through the process, and this year, we're on track to break that number. So it's, things are going up. Toni Rose Deanon 7:20 That's really, really exciting. And I'm curious to like, why, why would an educator do something like this? And also like, I'm blanking on it. But yeah, let's, let's, let's ask, you know, let's kind of talk about like, why is this something that we want educators to do? Or why is this something that educators want to do? Eddie Santiago 7:42 Yeah, so like, this is a chance for teachers and educators to distinguish themselves as teacher leaders in their schools and their communities in their classroom, this is a chance for them to also learn about themselves, because sometimes you don't know what you're doing wrong until you see yourself doing it wrong, right. And part of the process is recording yourself doing written commentary on things like that, oh, and stuff you've done in the classroom to push student achievement. So there's a lot that goes into it that helps you grow professionally, and can put you in on the path to being a leader and being into on committees and thought of as the expert in education issues in your community. And I think that's something that a lot of NBCT take heed to and really want to own is that they're thought of as leaders in their school and they their voice really matters. Going through the process allows them to show off those skills and be able to again, learn like a lot of the NBCTs I speak to say it's the greatest professional development they've ever been to the been through this process is completely voluntary. And some states have incentives and fee support to help you pay for the how to go through the process and then have an extra salary stipend on the back end once you complete. So there's definitely reasons to more than one reasons to do it monetarily or professionally, where do you want to grow both your bank account and your personal account, personal personal growth center? And we all want to do both? Toni Rose Deanon 9:07 Okay, so I have a question that I don't know if you have the answer to it. And maybe this is just like my ignorance. So is it true that if I am nationally board certified that I can just teach anywhere in the country? Because I'm nationally board certified? Like how does that work? Because I know in different states, there are different like protocols. Eddie Santiago 9:25 Yeah, pretty much. So it will it will expedite your license, your licensure in that state, right, you will automatically be guaranteed by their expedite the licensure for you to get your license between states. And a lot of states have started to come out recently with their recognizing national board across state borders. So like Pennsylvania recently put out put out some job request saying if you're an NBCT you can come here and we'll get your license right away. Right and so, like they're really trying to teach your quality and teacher retention is a big thing in the space now and NBCT more likely to stay in the classroom than teachers or non NBCT. Let's go a lot of states are starting to pick up on that. Toni Rose Deanon 10:08 Okay, okay, okay, that's that's really, really interesting. And when we think about educators is not just like content teachers, right like English teachers or math teachers, it's like, Eddie Santiago 10:17 no, this is counselors Library's like there's 19 different content areas. It's a huge breakdown, I was never a classroom teacher, but we have 10 NBCTs or 10 or 11, NBCTs on staff, so I'm able to talk to them all the time about what the process was, like, what, like, what I need, what goes into it, and all of that. And so there's a lot that comes with going through the process. And once you a lot of them, most of them, I'm gonna say all of them, I want to say all of them. I don't want to put that put that out there. Most of them say they come out better on the other side. Toni Rose Deanon 10:51 Wow, that's so cool. That's so cool. Okay, I have so many other follow up questions, but we can move on. And I'll probably just like, sprinkle them in there. Right. So when I was in the classroom, I was always a spy, like I always aspired to be nationally board certified. And then I always found an excuse not to do it. Surprise, surprise that Eddie Santiago 11:14 it's tough. It's not something that you can just easily pick up and throw on your plate. Like one thing we've tried to one message we've tried to put out there recently is you're already doing a lot of the work. This is just kind of you documenting a lot of the work that you already doing. Toni Rose Deanon 11:29 Yeah. And I feel like the impostor syndrome like seeped in perfectionism seeped in as well. Like, I just always found an excuse not to do it. Right. And I look, you regret that. So how do you support educators to go through this process so that it is accessible for all so that we can disrupt this imposter syndrome and the perfectionism and like, all the negative self talk that stops educators from applying? Eddie Santiago 11:53 Yeah, for sure, like so. One thing that when I got here to national board, and I thought that I just noticed off the bat was the candidate experience was really lacking. Here at the National prom and national board standpoint, there's a lot of state to state support. But there was never anything directly from the national board on how to go through the process and things like that. So one thing I did when I got here was connected with our Canada experienced team who was one person at the time to try to enhance things now we got to Canada experienced team of four people, we've done a lot of revamping of the process of to make it easier to better assess candidate or candidate need. We've also done a ton of work to revamp our emails to candidates, including completely redoing our candidate newsletter, to be more resource and support focus, instead of just NBCT news focus, we wanted to make sure that the newsletter was very useful to candidates since it's literally going to just them. And then we also shifted our language and a lot of our automated emails, where it's going to be a lot more focused on the timeline. Where are you at in the school year, really try to sync be synchronous with where you're at in the process, and may not be completely on your timeline, but it's going to be around where you're at. So that way we're feeding you the correct information, and things like that. And then this year, we launched homeroom. Homeroom is a new sequence tub of sequence resources to help candidates do the national board journey by themselves because we know there's some, not every candidate is going to be able to have the have a support group with it. So we put together a whole sequence journey on our website to go through so you know where you'd be like, there's four sessions. It's very intuitive and insightful. And it walks you through literally step by step, what to do is was a project we worked six, seven months on to make sure we got it off the ground, you'll see suggested timeline to be able to manage all of your stuff you need to throughout the process, then a couple of years ago, we launched a payment plan, you get six interest free payments on on the components you purchase. So that way, you don't have to come up off the presses of component right off off the top. And then I talked about the candidate supports we have in other states, we have our Texas network, Arizona, we have I believe it's 75 state networks and including a few national networks to help candidates across the country. And we also have a national board name, which is national accomplished minoritized educators, our network of accomplished minoritized educators. There we go. So it's a it's nearly a national support group for teachers of color, who are going through the process to be able to go through and feel comfortable. Toni Rose Deanon 14:33 Can you link me to those people? Oh my gosh, oh, this is so great. Because I know, that was probably what like 2015 that I was looking into getting nationally board certified and I just like talk to myself out of it. So now knowing that like there's all of these supports. That's really, really great. I also wonder too, do y'all have like how does your How is your community as ours like folks who have been who have gone through this process, right? Like, are there touchpoints are there are there like meetups or something like that for folks to connect with each other. Eddie Santiago 15:10 That's something we do pretty regular webinars, we have our yearly Academy where it's a three day conference on virtual conference, to learn a bunch of things. But also, one thing we did, we realized we were lacking in is our touch points with our, with the NBCT, those are, I like to call them our stakeholders, like we don't, I don't have a job without them, to be honest. And so I like to, I want to connect with them and make sure like, Yo, like, we're here for you to like, don't worry about it. And so one thing we are starting to build up is doing a lot more just regular social events just to tap in and catch up. Like we have a we're going to the Texas pinning ceremony, like so they do pinning ceremonies where NBCTs will go literally get a pen that says NBCT on it at the state ceremonies, so we're going to the Texas pinning ceremony this year. And they have we're going to do a social hour prior to the prior to the actual pinning ceremony because we want to get involved with our candidates and NBCT is down in Texas. And so this is something we're trying to do more often have is meet up in person especially since the pandemic is largely settled down. And so we're able to be outside a lot more often really want to be involved in in person with with a lot of our stakeholders. Toni Rose Deanon 16:26 Yeah, and I think oh my gosh, are pinning ceremony that sounds fascinating. And even like as I feel like there's just so much joy to write because it's such hard work that like our educators just put in and then like to do the whole pinning ceremony and then a social hour beforehand. Like I think that's really really cool. Eddie Santiago 16:43 Yeah, like there's the AC K 12 Center has like, oh, huge pendants, or maybe like roll out the red carpet. Like paparazzi all types of stuff. It is huge is a huge event that they do every year. And it's like, Man, I haven't been bothered, man, I gotta get out to that one. Because that one it looks it looks like you go into a movie, like a movie review. Like, it's crazy. Toni Rose Deanon 17:05 So how so Eddie, how often does that happen? Does it happen? Just like once a year? Eddie Santiago 17:09 Yeah. So scores are released, usually the want to say the second Saturday in December. And then the pinning ceremonies usually happen January, February, late January, early February of the following year. And so a lot of them are usually planned out when events, but the pendant ceremonies did yeah, it's usually early January, late December. But yeah, once a year, there'll be renewal scores, and then the initial scores that were released at different times. But when we revamped the process a few years ago, scores are released all at the same time now. So everybody's pin that the that the variable to do the pennant ceremonies in January in January or late February. I'm trying to get national board to do one for like local NBCTs here in the DMV area, like since I live here in DC, but it's something that's going to be like a little bit more of a person, I think, Toni Rose Deanon 18:00 Oh, this is so exciting. You're giving me lots of ideas. I was like the Community Engagement Manager here at modern classrooms, because I feel like you're right is the touch points that are really hard, right, especially when we're working nationally. And you're just like one person and like trying to like figure out how to touch base with folks. And so I do a lot of virtual meetups are really just like virtual like one on ones. But I do like I love when I'm in person with folks just to kind of interact and be able to just be in the same physical space. So the pinning ceremonies, that's so that's so great. Okay, so I have another follow up question. How often do educators have to renew their certification? Eddie Santiago 18:41 So once you go through the process, the first time your certificate is good for 10 years? And then after that, you'll do maintenance and certification, which is how about half the work and about a quarter of the cost? To just make sure you're maintaining the NBCT standard of I believe it's 99% of energy to go through main source of certification achieve. So it's really just making sure you're still on top of the game and just dealing refresh. And that's every five years. Toni Rose Deanon 19:13 Okay, okay. Yeah. Because I was thinking, like, you know, I was in education. I was in education for 10 years, or an educator for 10 years, and then COVID happened, right? Like, then everything changed and a lot of philosophy and learning and teaching philosophies just changed and shifted, because of that one thing. So I really liked the whole like every five years just to kind of revamp and like revisit and also reanalyze and relearn so many different things. Eddie Santiago 19:40 Like with our standards, right, like our standards are kind of are updated periodically every three to five years. So it's making sure that everything is updated all at the current current time so that we were not have missing any gaps and like you said, in the education space where things just completely shift. Toni Rose Deanon 19:59 Yeah, I think that that's really, really important too, right? Like I always tell our educators we reiterate all the time, all the time, because our group of kids are different. And you know, every year, they are different, they are struggling or with something that's different than it was before, or their strengths are a little bit different, too. So I really, I love that, that there's always like an update. Because I think sometimes in education, we don't update so many different things. Eddie Santiago 20:28 When I went to school, I had textbooks that was 15 years old. Toni Rose Deanon 20:34 Right, right. Like, who have, like one of the things that I've always said to Eddie is like, if someone from the 1800s were to come here, they would be like, Oh, education is the same, right? Like I can survive and education in the in the school, but I won't survive anywhere else, because everything has shifted and changed so much. But like, our education system has not changed that much drastically, which is wild to me to think about. So. Okay, well, so the NBCT process is known for its rigor and thorough evaluation, right? Like you've kind of mentioned that already. Could you walk us through the key components that you also mentioned that they're like the payments for the components of the certification process and the standards that teachers must meet Eddie Santiago 21:14 Yeah. So the standards are written by teachers and for teachers like it's completely written by teachers, we have 11 MC t's on staff, including our president and CEO, who's the NBCT, who started the school who has 37 years or something like that of teaching experience. And so we work with them. And we also work with some distinguished educators who aren't national board certified to make sure we're not coming from one perspective all the time to periodically update the standards to make sure it's current with education, which is what we just talked about. And now the initial process takes four components. One is computer based, and three portfolio based. And you'll get five years to submit three times in case you don't get the scores you need to achieve on your first submission. There were 16 content areas and different age development areas, depending on the grade level you currently teach. So you can do middle childhood generalist, right, like your middle school, teaching whatever. Origins like adult young adulthood math, right? So it's like high school math, almost. There's a lot of there's different content areas you don't so if you're an elementary teacher, you're not going to be on your content, knowledge on your content test, you're not going to have to teach high school stuff. Right? So component one is a computer based content knowledge assessment, your demonstrate what you know about the content you're currently teaching. And this is this a success through three open answer questions at 45, multiple choice questions. You take it on a computer, I wanted the assessment centers, local to you, there's one I believe in just about every state. And then there's three portfolio components, differentiation in instruction, teaching practice, and learning environment and effective and reflective practitioners. So during component two, you'll gather and analyze information about individual students strengths and needs, then use that information to design and implement instruction to advance student learning, and achievement, which is what you are, again, what you're already doing, but you're just kind of documenting it, write it down and put it in your portfolio. Component three, this is where a lot of teachers get tripped up. This is where you start to this is where you're recording yourself now. And you're seeing how you're teaching these kids. And you're seeing how the kids are reacting and things like that. So when component three, this, you'll have also submit a written commentary on the side what you describe what you describe, analyze and reflect on your teaching and interactions with students. So that way, to make sure you're able to get to students where they are, that's what we like to do. We want to teach them where they are, and then component for, you know, demonstrate evidence of your abilities as an effective and reflective practitioner in developing and applying the knowledge of your students. So how do you use their background to inform them about certain things that you're trying to teach? Right? And you'll use that to build an effective plan for positive to have a positive impact on your learning, and collaborate with the students to make sure that they're achieving learning in a way that works and is suitable for them. And it's tough, plenty of educators don't achieve on the first try. So if you decide to go through the process and don't achieve don't get the scores you want on the first attempt, don't get discouraged. Plenty of the teachers out of mpg that get to speak to didn't achieve on the first try. You'll have two more retakes to go look at what you did wrong and be able to resubmit. So it's a chance to pick yourself off the map pick yourself up off the mat and do it all over again and be better. Toni Rose Deanon 24:50 at it. I don't know if you're aware about our distinguished modern classrooms, educator, process. DMCE So we've gotten, we've often gotten the comments of like the application process for DMCE kind of mirrors NBCT in a way, because the things that you just named right the differentiation and instruction, right, the Teaching Learning philosophies, and also just like the being the reflective teacher, right, and just like, figuring out how to meet your students where they are, and so that some of our components or a lot of our components mirror that actually, which I think is just so fascinating, because it's like, wow, I could have, I could have done NBCT Why didn't I do it? This is wild. Toni Rose Deanon 25:34 And so I really, I've also really appreciate that there's like retakes, right? Like, hey, if you didn't get it the first time, that's okay, you have another chance to do it. And I think this is such an important lesson, too, for educators, because sometimes when we are testing or assessing our students, right, our students typically only have one time to get it right. And so it's like, well, we don't like there are some folks who can get it right the first time. And then there are folks who don't get it right the first time or don't get what they need to get the first time. And so like the whole revision process, and the retake process, and the reflective process is really, really important. So I really appreciate the fact that, like, educators who are going through your process are also doing all of this work, which is really empowering for anyone, honestly, right. And it's also humbling to I feel like Right, like, yeah, it's kind of like, Oh, I thought I could get it. Eddie Santiago 26:34 Yeah, like, especially when you're that teacher who's like, super, like, achieved and all that. And then you're like, Oh, I didn't get the score. What happens? Like I was talking to Brooke with the Risa Allen who's a NBCT, down in Texas, and she didn't achieve her first try. And she loves to talk about, she took it as an insult that she didn't achieve the first time. Almost like she was like, no, like, I know what I'm talking about. And then she came back, she got the scores, she got the score she needed the second time. Toni Rose Deanon 27:00 Yeah. And it's like, it's kind of teaching us as human beings to embrace our mistakes, and to learn from it. And then like to make it better, right, we now have a chance to make it better. And I think this is this model itself is also really good in the classroom, right? And allowing our students to do those retakes allowing our students to like, say, Oh, wait, wait a minute, this is a humbling situation. Feel all the fields, and then like, let's continue to move forward, because I feel like we learn more when we make mistakes, in my opinion. So but yeah, no, that's, that's really, it's really grounding, honestly. So this is, this is exciting stuff. What so what is the what is considered the score? That is like what we want to achieve if we are applying, Eddie Santiago 27:48 oh, man, so I couldn't give you like the actual scores. I'm not sure. Like, I'm not sure like what goes into the actual testing. But I just updated actually like our score released FAQs. So if you want to go see our score, release FAQ is like all of the information you need is, I believe we have like weighted scores versus unweighted score, there's a whole lot that goes into the scoring, that's way above my, Toni Rose Deanon 28:14 no, that's fine. And, and if you don't mind, if we can get that link in the show notes, just so that our listeners can also like, make sure that they have access to that. Another thing that stood out to me, Edie that I really loved was that you set the standard written by teachers for teachers. So for my my experience, right, I was in I was in the classroom for 10 years. And then I was an instructional coach after I was the type of teacher that would roll my eyes when something is being provided for us, and it was not educator led, if that makes sense, right. And so I think like organizations and strategies, or whatever else that are being offered for educators, it's so much more impactful when the folks who are leading this were also educators. And so that's, I didn't know that about the standards, which I now like all this. It's not surprising, right? Because I feel like NBCT is very intentional with how they move in the education space. So that's really cool. Eddie Santiago 29:15 Yeah, like a song we've tried to emulate. Like I said, we have 11 MC t's on staff, our president CEO is NBCT. We have NBCTs leading our standards and assessment, our candidate experience like we're making sure to be super intentional on how we go about a lot of our impact on the field because we know that NBCTs can have an outside impact on the field, and teachers in general just can have outsized impact on the world. So being able to get the best ones out. There is something we really strive to do. Toni Rose Deanon 29:45 Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that so much. Okay, so listeners, we're gonna take a quick break for an announcement and when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about NBCT Toni Rose Deanon 29:58 Hey, listeners, this is Toni Rose Deanon, the co-host of this podcast. We have some learning experiences for you this upcoming week. Check out the show notes for registration links and more details. We have our leadership theory session for beyond absenteeism, equity by design coming up on Tuesday, October 31, at 1pm. Eastern Time, we have our monthly Twitter chat all about AI on Wednesday, November 1 at 7pm. Eastern time, you won't want to miss this join us by using hashtag MCP chat, we hope to see you in some of those spaces to learn with us. Toni Rose Deanon 30:35 All right, are back with Eddie. So, Edie, you've kind of again, we've talked about this already, but just to kind of like, confirm it. Right? So aspiring NBCT candidates may be curious about the challenges they might face on their journey. And it seems like your team already kind of thought out, like what this journey would look like, right? And to provide those supports. So can you share some tips and insights for teachers who are considering pursuing National Board Certification, including how to prepare and what to expect? Eddie Santiago 31:03 Well, there's a few there's, I got a few tips for you. So the one thing that will always stamp in the conversation I'm able to have is read your standards, read your standards is the standards are you're gonna live and die by your standards. When when you smoke, you start the process, you're able to do that, you'll you'll be fine. And so with the pleasure of being able to speak to all these NBCTs all over the country, they give me a lot of advice. I remember speaking with Kim Jones, who is a 2023, State Teacher of the Year in North Carolina, who was an English teacher, she would go to her science department and have her read her written entries like read, like, just cut, because sometimes it would be too wordy. And you know, as an English teacher, she was like, I love adver. And so she's like the science teachers like no, you're just saying too much, you just need to get to the point. So that's one thing is during your written entries, you don't need a lot of fluff, just get to the point of what you were doing, and keep it as concise as possible. And one more piece of advice that resonated with me is involve your students. I was speaking to an NBCT in South Carolina. And he said he would have dedicated days to record with his students, he would call them filming Fridays, where every Friday, the kids would roleplay one of the standards that he would that he was trying to teach. And they would teach in the classroom so that way he can keep his students involved and let them know that look, we're all trying to get better here. It's not just your like, we're all trying to do this. And So involving them and keeping them engaged in the process made it very helpful for him to get through it. Toni Rose Deanon 32:37 I really love that, you know, the whole leaning in to your community, right? Like leaning in and making sure that there's more set of eyes and none. Because I think sometimes it's really scary to have folks read our work and then like to be critiqued. But I think again, this is part of like our learning curve and learning process right of it may sound good to us. But then when someone else reads it, it's like really wordy or like they're confused with some things. And so I think what I'm hearing you say is also just like, ask for help, it's okay. Because we're asking Eddie Santiago 33:11 a very collaborative process, right? Like, yeah, don't go through this, don't go through this alone, like tag a partner, to go through it with you. So that way, you're not doing this alone. Even if you're in the School of Law, like we don't, we encourage you to do it with a partner, because it's going to be easier on both of y'all. This is Toni Rose Deanon 33:28 so wild Eddie because again, like a lot of the things that you're saying is, these are things that I'm saying to our community as well, right? Like when you go through the mentorship program, like find you a teacher bestie because it's so much more fun, like disrupting the traditional way of teaching and learning with a partner. And so it this is this is really, really, this, this is great. And another thing that I also tell our educators all the time is like, if you're stuck on something, or if you have no idea how to move forward, your students are there, and they will tell you how to move forward. And you know, because it's always like, Well, my kids, you know, my students are not doing this thing. And I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do, either. Let's talk to the kids and see like what they think and they come up with some of the best ideas. And so I love that like your educator, the one that you spoke to the NBCT, who welcomed and invited his students to see this learning that's happening. I was on a podcast with my former principal. And I was something that I really loved about her was that she was also trying to be better at being a principal and she shared that process with us as teachers. And I felt like wow, okay, this is good, because then again, right like as human beings, we want to welcome folks in the process so that we're not doing it by ourselves. And then we're asking for help, which is so difficult, but it is so helpful when we actually do it. And then like inviting stakeholders and inviting our consumers which For our students, to just tell us how it is. And also to model that, like learning continues, learning doesn't just happen in these four walls in the school building, but it happens everywhere around us. And just because I'm here as an adult, guiding and supporting you doesn't mean that I'm not doing my own learning, right. So I really, really appreciate that. That's, those are really good tips and insights. And so in the beginning, you've already talked about essentially like, hey, for folks to get nationally board certified, there is like monetary and professional goals, right, that are being met. Are there any like how does? So I guess I want to ask if there's anything else, like how does achieving NBCT status impact a teacher's professional growth and development? And then what does it signify in terms of a teacher's commitment to excellence in the classroom, because I know you already said like, folks who are NBCT tend to stay in the classroom longer, which I think is like my chef's kiss, we want them there. Eddie Santiago 36:01 Yeah, so becoming an NBCT signifies that you're an expert in educational matters, especially in your classroom, I know it opened the door for you to be elevated, be involved in those elevated conversations that impact the schools and teachers, because you're thought of as the expert of the school, the expert of the matters in that in that area. So you're able to have your voice heard on a on a different level. When you add the comma NBCT, to the end of anything under your name. And when NBCT is I speak to say, having national board certification on your resume with a differentiator in many of the many other applications they put in to be all committees and task forces. So aside from professional development in the classroom, you will receive from going through the process, you'll have something that signifies that you're dedicated, you're dedicated in the leader and education space. And also sort of a side benefit I got is it helps give parents comfort that their child is in good hands, and it helps build trust that you know what you're doing. Right, and then the age and space that we're in with the climate of parents and schools right now. I think giving them that comfort that their child is in good hands will alleviate a lot of stress for a lot of people, for teachers just themselves. Toni Rose Deanon 37:20 I also wonder to Eddie now that you brought in, like caregivers and families, right, like, do they know what NBCT stands for? Is that something that they need to be taught? Or like? They just know? Or do they act like they see it as as part of the signature of their teachers? Email? And then they're like, NBCT? What does that mean? Eddie Santiago 37:40 I feel like it's definitely something that has to be asked or just told, because like, I didn't know about national board prior to getting this job. So just being fully transparent. I didn't know anything about it. But so I've definitely would have needed to be like, alright, I don't know, like, What is that supposed to mean? But then once I would have found out like, okay, cool. Like, I know, this is like the highest level of highest level that are they going to give my my child the best education they can because I know they're going to try to get to know my child, first and foremost. And so it's definitely probably something that needs to be asked. But I think once the information is relayed, it brings a sense of relief and comfort to their child going to the going to school. Toni Rose Deanon 38:21 Yeah, I really, really, really love that. That piece, of course. And I know like I'm, I'm thinking about some of the educators that I've worked with who has had NBCT as part of theirs, their signature, and some of them they do like spell it out or like habit. It's not just NBCT but it's also like, nationally board certified and almost like yes, yes, as you show Eddie Santiago 38:46 certified, and this since then, like no, like, it's crazy. So we lost a couple of years ago, we launched our email badges for for the emails. And right, one of our one of the people, one of my co workers didn't think it would be super popular, right? The little email badge. And let me tell you, that thing took off. I think it was way bigger than even I thought, I don't know what it's gonna be cool. People love to show up. But like that thing took off. Like, we get questions about it all the time. Like, where can I get my badge? That's the first question we get after score releases. When am I gonna get when my badge is available? Like it's crazy. Toni Rose Deanon 39:25 And that's something definitely that we've realized too, is like educators love badges. Because I think it's also just because like we are questioned so much about what we do that like we need credentials to prove that we are actually able to do the job that we signed up for, which is so wild to me that like we just don't get that like same trust and respect and and so I I always enjoy seeing those badges and I know that I definitely had badges when I was in the classroom because again, it just like shows off in a way that like no I am Know what I'm doing? Eddie Santiago 40:02 Like, you got to stand on 10 too often it's like, Man, I just, I just want to teach. I'm just trying to teach the class, I don't want to have to defend my credentials to you. Toni Rose Deanon 40:10 Yeah, and that's another thing too, that I've noticed. And realize too, like talking to educators of color, it feels like those credentials really, really matter for them to be able to advocate and to be able to speak up, because then there's like this, you know, this, this thing that's backing them up that they know what they're talking about. Right. And I hear that often, too. Wow, this is, this is really great stuff. Okay, so I have another question for you. Edie. When you get nationally board certified, under one content, can you shift for example, you were teaching elementary school? And then now you're a librarian? How does that work? Eddie Santiago 40:51 Um, thank you would have to go through the process. Again, I'm not entirely short, just because of a whole new content area and a whole different set of skills between being a librarian and being an English teacher. So I think you would have to just go through the process again, like I was just talking to another teacher who's a world language teacher, and he's certified. And he knows three languages. He knows. I English, obviously, French, Spanish, and I think German, but he's only certified in French. So I think he would have to go through the process like you would have to go through the process for the other content area to make sure you know, what is involved in the content at least? Toni Rose Deanon 41:27 And that makes that makes a lot of sense, too. And I'm also wondering, for me to go through the process, I have to be in the classroom, right? Eddie Santiago 41:36 No, I don't think so. Because a lot of our MBCT is honestly some of them are just aren't even in the classroom. So a lot of them will borrow a classroom like our president CEO this year is going through her maintenance or certification. And so in December, she's flying to Florida, where she usually teaches to borrow a classroom to show that she can still teach, still an effective classroom teacher, but educators aren't just in the classroom. Right. We have an NBCT, who was a superintendent of instruction down in Alabama, we have an NCBCT who's a superintendent of ector. County out in Texas, right, we have NBCT, we try to get them at every level of the education space because they have a different level of knowledge base to bring to those conversations. Toni Rose Deanon 42:23 Okay, that's good to know. Because clearly, I was asking myself Eddie Santiago 42:29 that we not somewhere you need to be in the classroom. A lot of what I've realized is a lot of teachers who do leave the classroom take pride in going back and doing their moc their main certification in the classroom. They enjoy that part to show that like, No, I still got it. Like I can still do it. Toni Rose Deanon 42:46 Yeah, no, because I know that I keep going back and forth. Like I really miss my middle schoolers, right? Like I met the hormones I miss. Yes, I miss them cussing me out one second, and then loving on me the next like, I miss all of that. I'm so bored with my life without my middle schoolers, so. Okay, so what do you hope to see in the future? And what goals do you have, as far as NBCT is concerned? Eddie Santiago 43:14 No, honestly, I'm gonna get to a place where it's the norm and not the exception, right? Like, I truly believe that every student deserves the best teacher possible. And coming from where I come from, like I grew up in the projects, right? We didn't have great schools. So I know from firsthand that that isn't the case everywhere. And so for many different, there's a bunch of different reasons behind that. But trying to get the best teacher everywhere for every student is one of my biggest long term goals. I think by investing in teachers, and supporting the teachers through the process is a long way because they're going to have an impact. We have classrooms of 30 people now, right? 30-35 people now these classrooms, are you so you have an NBCT, who's affecting learning in a more accelerated way, right of 30 kids, that's going to set a lot of kids on the right path. And so just get to a place where national borders are thought of as a norm almost like lawyers taking the bar exam, right? It's just what you got to do. And kind of where I want to get to. Toni Rose Deanon 44:12 Yes, yes, yes, yes. And yes, right, like the norm and not the assumption of the exception. Ah, that's so beautifully said. Edie. Like, yes. Everything else except just to say yes, I love that. And I, I really hope to see that. I mean, there's some classrooms that have 42 kids, right. We have an educator who taught ninth grade, and they did it virtually and had like 259th graders, and it's like, how do you what, how does that even work? So and so to make this a norm, we all know that, like our educators are getting the best that they can get right? And so I love that so much. Okay, well, how can our listeners connect with you, Abby? Eddie Santiago 44:58 Yeah, so you should first off let's In a subscribe to national board conversations, you'll get to hear from NBCTs from all over the country we broke. It was a podcast that I picked up a couple of years ago. We're about to break 20,000 downloads. So I would appreciate y'all get me there. And then you can follow me on Instagram at estado I'm not a frequent poster, I don't really post very much because I do this for a living. So I'm kind of tired of it. By the time my own life comes up. And so you can follow me there, but you're not gonna get much content, but definitely listen to national board conversations. These teachers are awesome. I love speaking to them. And they, they keep me they keep my drive going to continue in this education space. Toni Rose Deanon 45:36 And we'll have all of that in the show notes listeners, and also you know, I am pro sliding into those DMS. So definitely slide into those DMS Eddie Santiago 45:44 I'll answer DMs. There's not gonna be a lot of post poseable content from my account. Toni Rose Deanon 45:51 No, that is a Okay, I just love like the access via DMS because I've met some really dope people sliding into DMS, so all about it. Alright, well, thank you so much, Eddie, this has been just so great. And you've taught me a lot which, and You've piqued my interest as well. So I'm really, Eddie Santiago 46:12 really get you on board. We're gonna make you a candidate. Toni Rose Deanon 46:14 Yay. I'm so excited about that. And so listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org. And you can find the show notes for this episode of podcast at modern classrooms.org/162. We'll have this episode's transcript uploaded by Friday, so be sure to check back to access those. Also we are asking our listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a blended self paced, mastery based learning environment. It does help other folks find it. So thank you all for listening. Have a great week. And we'll be back next Sunday. Eddie? You're the best continue to do things that bring you joy. I really appreciate you being in this space with me. Oh, yeah. Eddie Santiago 46:52 Thank you for having me. This was fun. Zach Diamond 46:58 Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.