Zach Diamond  0:03  
Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other. So this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.

Toni Rose Deanon  0:28  
Hello, and welcome to episode 170 of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, they them pronouns, the Community Engagement Manager here at MCP and I am joined today by Cassie Johnson, she her hers pronouns, she is a specialist level school psychologist, psychologist in her 10th year of practice, and she started her career in rural Kentucky, and is now in Denver, Colorado. And another fun fact also is that her partner and I were actually roommates in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and we did our student teaching. So welcome, Cassie.

Cassie Johnson  1:01  
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Toni Rose Deanon  1:04  
Girl. I feel like it's been so long since we've been in the same physical space. So to be in this like virtual space with you. It's just so exciting. So thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. And so before we get started, what is bringing you joy currently?

Cassie Johnson  1:19  
Well, I know you know this, but the listeners don't know that my wife and I adopted a puppy over the summer. Her name is Java. We never call her Java though. But that's her name. Um, she's about 10 months now. And you know, puppies are amazing in general. But it's been really interesting to watch how the dynamic with like, all of my pets have changed since we've gotten her. Because she now that we have her we have three dogs and four cats, which is probably way too many. But they're wonderful. And we love them. You know, one of my cats was always trying to cuddle with the dogs and never could do it. But the new dog likes to cuddle. So it's a total game changer.

Toni Rose Deanon  2:03  
Oh, this makes me so happy. It's like a whole zoo. And it's just very much like a queer like thing to have so many pets. I really talked to someone who was my massage therapist actually is queer, which is really exciting. And we just talked about like her zoo, as well. So like I three dogs for cats. Yes. We love that. And I'm so excited to just again meet your new puppy and cuddle with your new puppy as well. And so yes, was amazing. Okay, girl, 10 years, starting in rural Kentucky, and then now in Denver, Colorado, right? Like, that's a long time. So tell tell our listeners a little bit more about who you are and how you started your school psychology journey. Now, it's really interesting, because I feel like I know you as a human being. And I like really messed up your school title prior to this. So this is gonna be a learning journey for me as well. And I'm excited to know more. 

Cassie Johnson  3:01  
Yeah, no, it's really interesting. You know, school psychologists, we kind of joke with each other that nobody knows who we are or what we do. We used to actually have a school psychology Awareness Week. They just changed it in the past year to be an appreciation week instead of Awareness Week. But yeah, so I studied psychology in undergrad at University of Kentucky go Cavs, which is the Kentucky connection. And before you could graduate with your degree, you had to take a course called careers in psychology. And I took it I learned about a lot of different stuff. But for some reason, I decided not to do any of that right after college. So I actually got a job working for like this big company, but I wasn't happy. So I pulled that notebook back out because I keep everything for some reason. And I went looking through my notes about what can I do with my education, myself, school psychology, wonderful. Education has always been really important to me. I thought about actually being a teacher but changed my mind. So I really lucked out. Kentucky has a great school psychology program. So I was able to stay where I was, continue living in the same area and go to graduate school for school psychology. And while it was a very tough program, I learned that I had made the right choice, it was going to be a very meaningful job. And one that I think I can stay happy with long term.

Toni Rose Deanon  4:40  
And I mean, that's that's incredible. I'm glad that you were able to like find your path into school psychology because we definitely need school psychologists that look like you right and, and this is something that you and I have talked about too, previously before recording is that you identify as indigenous and we're talking about like just the important is a representation for our students to see different types of folks. But yeah, like, tell us more about how you navigate the space as someone who's indigenous in a school psychology space. 

Cassie Johnson  5:10  
Yeah. So, um, man, as far as being a school psychologist, you know, I work in a huge district, and there are probably only a handful of indigenous practitioners that do my job. And I think, sometimes, well, and for me, my community that I work within is very diverse. So when they walk in, or get a call from a school psychologist saying, hey, we need a meeting, we need to talk about your kid. And they walk in and they see someone that looks like me, sometimes, especially our more diverse families automatically feel a little bit more comfortable with this. I'm also very lucky lucky that the school I live in allows us to not have to dress like super professional, so we're able to keep things very casual. But yeah, I mean, I identify as a bisexual Indigenous woman. So you know, in my office, I've got the big you are loved, flag, I open and out to my students, they know that I have a wife. And then also just, I think this having space for people that look different, and being able to recognize that even though we have these differences, there's still so much in common that we have. And I think especially the students that see people that look like them, they get to dream a little bit more. You know, education is not always a job that people think, oh, yeah, I want to be a teacher, and I'm going to be rich when I grow up. But I think when our students are, especially the diverse students see a queer person of color in a position, enjoying their job and education, being respected by like the other adults around them, I think it is very powerful.

Toni Rose Deanon  7:03  
Yeah, and I love all of the identity markers that you stated, right, like, and I also just, always, when I'm looking when I'm walking into a room, right, like looking for someone who kind of looks like me, and then like definitely lighting up when I see that person who looks like me. So it's really, really, really exciting that you're in this space with us, because I was like, Oh my gosh, like, How did I not think of Cassie Cassie is perfect to have this conversation with? And, and yeah, so I'm just, this is gonna be such a great conversation also, because like you're authentically showing up as yourself. And then of course, like being a school psychologist, right? Like, you're trying to create this, like brave slash safe space for folks, right, especially for young learners that you get to work with. And so before we even get started, right, like, what is school psychology? Like? Why are you needed at school and talk to us more about the whole child theory because that is your like, focus. And that is like something that you're really passionate about? 

Cassie Johnson  8:00  
Yeah, so one of the great and wonderful things about school psychology that can be extra confusing is that the job can look super different, depending on where you are in the country, and what kind of school system you're in. You know, one of the reasons why I felt like it was important to bring up that I started my career in rural Kentucky, is because it was very different from what I'm doing now. When I first started my career, I was pretty much doing nothing but evaluations testing, which for my job means academic testing, cognitive testing, which is what people used to refer to as IQ testing, we just don't call it that anymore. And I'm doing things like mental health evals does the student have ADHD, doing nothing, but the testing and report writing. And all of that is very important, but it is not necessarily what I got into the field to do. So I was very excited when my wife and I moved out to Denver. And I started working directly with students on a daily basis. So it, it's really quite varying, but I love my role. Now, I would say at least half of every day is direct student facing where I am working with and supporting students. And, of course, there is that big legal and compliance piece, there is a lot of paperwork to go along with it. You know, as a school psychologist, you are kind of walking between two roles and two different teams within your school. You are definitely a key member of your special education team. You're going to be involved in a lot of the cases and helping you determine which students would qualify for those extra services. And then I would say the other team that you would be a member of would be like a culture team, or mental health team and my school we call it our culture team. So I work very closely Are you with our admin, as well as we have someone called a restorative justice coordinator, who helps our students kind of solve and recoup after a little bit of drama breaks out. And we just make plans about how, as a whole school, how can we make this a place where our students who want to come and engage with us? How do we make the school a place where the parents and the community want to send their students? So it's, it's really varied. I would say, when I talk to students about, what do you do here, I say, I'm a helper person. I say, you know, if we're in my office, I'll like, say, look around, I do not have a classroom full of students. Because if I did, it would be very hard for me to get up and go help another student that needs it. So the students don't see me necessarily as a disciplinarian. Even though I can sometimes get involved, you know, teasing apart, drama and stuff, you know, that's always a part of school. But I'm really like, their helper, they know, they can ask me for anything, a pencil, if they need it, a notebook, they need to talk about anything. Just tell them like, I am a safe space person. And I am only here to keep you safe. And to help however I can.

Toni Rose Deanon  11:21  
And I really love that too, because it got me thinking of a whole bunch of stuff, right? Like a lot of things that you said, really like, how do we get our students to engage with us? And how do we create the space where folks want to be in in in here with us, right? And you being able to just kind of collaborate with so many different teams, that's, that's really incredible. And it's all very, like new for me as well. And so when we think of a school psychologist, Cassie, like, how many do we have? Is it per school? Do you work with different schools? How old are your kids like, tell me because I'm trying to picture like, I don't even remember if we had a school psychologist than any of the schools that I've worked out. 

Cassie Johnson  12:00  
I can tell you growing up, I cannot remember ever having a school psychologist. I was in the public education system until seventh grade. Never heard of it before literally had never heard of it until college. But yeah, no, we do not have enough school psychologists, the National Association of School Psychologists says there should be one school psych for about every 600 or so students. Unfortunately, that is not necessarily plausible, or it's just simply not done in a lot of schools. And part of that is a demand for people in the field. People in the field, we need them, we need just everybody. But particularly men. There are not a lot of men in education. There is a space for men in education. So please come join us if that's your job. But we need everybody there of all different diversities. I am incredibly lucky. This year is probably the best year I've had as far as staffing and team members. I am currently working full time in a school of less than 200 students. And I have the support of a full time social worker with me every day, that is incredibly rare. That is not something that happens. In our district, the minimum that we ask schools to do is to have one mental health person a day. So that could look like a school psychologist five days and no social worker. It could look like a school psychologist one day and the social worker four days, it's really kind of up to the school to figure that out. 

Toni Rose Deanon  13:54  
I didn't even know that like a school psychologist and a social worker would be working together. But that makes so much sense. Because it's always been separate in my mind and in my own like school journey and school experiences. So this is all really good to know. I mean, how did how did you end up with that cast? That's that's really cool. 

Cassie Johnson  14:12  
Honestly, I have no idea. I just got incredibly lucky. You know, even the school I was at last year, I really enjoyed my principal. And she was great. And I enjoyed my social worker. But you know, I just wanted to change and when I came here, it's my new school is just working out really well and going perfect. Like I mentioned, also we have a restorative justice coordinator. So that person is not a member of the Special Education team. They are not somebody that has to spend hours of their day doing paperwork and things like that. That is a person that just helps us kind of handle behavior and help our kids get along through the day. And part of that is having like a makeup session. So So we might have a couple of kids who are joking around kind of giving each other a hard time roasting each other, as they like to say, and it goes too far. But those kids are friends, but they're like yelling at each other. So we have one person specifically to also just help us in those cases. So it's really wonderful to have people that can, like work together as a team. And that is not always the case. A lot of times, either the social worker or a psychologist might be the only person who carries a walkie talkie around the school, besides the principal that is responding to, hey, so and so's upset about this, or so and so does not want to go into class, can somebody help them and just all the various different things? 

Toni Rose Deanon  15:48  
Wow, that this is just again, this is just all very fascinating. Because I'm like, man, I really have ignorant when it comes to this stuff. I really have no clue. And so I really appreciate you just like sharing all of this with me as well. And I don't think that I caught like, how old are your kids? Like, what are the grade level of the kids that you work? 

Cassie Johnson  16:09  
Oh, yeah, I am so sorry. My school has an Early Childhood Education Center in it as well. So I have kids from three years old, up to fifth grade, so about 10 ish, years old.

Toni Rose Deanon  16:25  
Okay, you have the babies.

Cassie Johnson  16:28  
Yes, I love them so much. Which is, you know, a lovely, sometimes a fifth grade drama gets you a little bit, you can pop into the preschool class and just get some hugs and things like that for a little bit. But, ya know, my school doesn't have bus transportation. Really, it's just neighborhood kids or parents, or guardians that are able to transport their kids to my building in the morning. So it's just really important to recognize, like, what's going on in the community, also, when we think about these things, because earlier, we mentioned whole child theory, and a lot of times people will be like, Oh, well, they're at school, that's a whole different life. Hold child theory really tries to take into account that it's one part of life. So like, you might have your nuclear family, your extended family, your school, your community, that all of these things are really connected. So like, you have an upset kid or something, the first thing, did something happen at home? Did you get into a fight with a parent or something? Did you eat breakfast? Did you get enough sleep, you know, we have to make sure that the basic needs of our children are met, and that they feel safe at home as well as school. And just because they're not doing maybe their math, they don't want to do their times tables, ask them why, you know, we have to be willing to accept and support students that have things going on in our lives that we absolutely cannot control. But those are our students. So we have to support every aspect of them. Whether that one aspect is, quote, unquote, the school's job or not?

Toni Rose Deanon  18:21  
Yeah, I really, I really resonate with all of the things that you're saying, I love the fact that it's a community approach, right of like, everyone is going to be part of this school environment, it is a community. And I also just really liked the fact that you are highlighting humanizing our kids, right? They're not just students, they are coming in as a whole being. And they're also not blank slates. They're coming in with experiences with stories with, with knowledge that we didn't even know about, right. And so really allowing for, for our students to show up as they are. And I think like what we talked about earlier to Cassie have like you showing up as authentically as yourself really provides this space for our students to also do the same. And that's something that I'm really pushing for educators to it's just like, hey, like, we are more than just our job, we are more than just what we do. We're like, really human beings out here. And there's so many different layers and who we are as as just people trying to survive and thrive in this world that I feel like is constantly on fire. Right. And it could feel Yeah, and it could feel really overwhelming, especially for young kids because they don't yet still have those coping mechanisms are still learning and so I really appreciate you know, the fact that you're like, you know, what they may be coming in with with some other stuff, and that's okay, like, we have to love them and welcome them and accept them for however they're showing up and then really, like, teach them on how to better navigate or how to better communicate or how to better like, strategize like different types of movements. Right. And so I really appreciate I really appreciate that Okay, so walk us through your day, right? Like, I, again, knowing nothing about what a school psychologist does. And you said earlier to like working in rural Kentucky, which I feel like that could be a whole conversation itself, because I don't know much about rural schools. And I would love to hear more. Where you were just doing a lot of paperwork, right. And then now you have a lot more student facing student face time, walk us through your day, like, tell us how your day looks? 

Cassie Johnson  20:33  
Well, it's, it's always easy to say No day is ever alike. They always start off fairly similar, but then it kind of trickles throughout the day. So you know, first thing in the morning, we do something called threshold greeting. So every member of staff is at some door somewhere in the school, just greeting students. So I am posted up by the second and third grade and turns so pretty much start my day off saying hi to kids, high five, did you eat breakfast, how was your night, things like that. And then, you know, I have a couple of students on what we might call a behavior plan or a mental health plan. So they have to pop by my office, you know, pick up their little paper for the day and maybe drop off their backpack or things, they're not allowed to take the class anymore. And we do our kind of check in like that. And then the whole next like, kind of half hour ish, I just keep locked off. And all I do is walk from classroom to classroom, just kind of checking in, looking inside seeing Oh, is this person like already crying is this person falling asleep at their desk, because they're not quite awake yet. And just kind of getting a feel for what students might need a little bit of extra support. Because while I have a caseload of students, as you know, I was discussing earlier, we really utilize the phrase your students, my students, our students, so whatever student it is that needs that support, you know, we're going to be there for them. So just making rounds first thing in the morning, and trying to keep an eye on those kids sharing with my team, what I saw, things like that. And then about four hours, at least, I would say a day's direct student time. So that would look like me either pulling the singular student, or maybe a small group of students, never more than four, never bring more than four students to one of my like sessions at once, because that just becomes too much. But I bring them into my room. And if they receive like special education services, and they have specific goals that they're working towards, then our time together is kind of spent doing that, like working towards those goals, like I have a student with autism are on the spectrum somewhere. If when? Well, they're all on the spectrum, if they're have autism, they're on the spectrum somewhere, but like, say, my students on the spectrum, a lot of them have a lot of difficulty reading social cues. So we spend a lot of time talking about social situations. What do you think is happening here? How can we guess what that person is feeling? But then, you know, I also have students who have a hard time problem solving, or solving problems and managing their emotions. So we spend our time talking about, okay, well, why is that anger healthy? And okay, but also, how can we manage it appropriately? Or show it in the right way? Things like that. One part of my practice that I hope I see is being implemented more widespread is called growth mindset. So rather than focusing on the skills, they're currently demonstrating, really just focusing on their growth. So if I have a student that's struggling, I always say, do I ever ask you to be perfect? No, I just asked you to try so that we can grow. So that's about half my day, is that and then the rest of the time? I will go into classrooms and just hang out with my kiddos, see who needs help. Sometimes just say hi, throughout the day, I know they need a little attention after a long literacy block just going in and being like, Hey, how you doing? Great. Wonderful. See you later. And then the rest is boring paperwork.

Toni Rose Deanon  24:34  
Do you always end your day with paperwork, Cassie? I guess you have to write your observations down throughout the day. Yeah.

Cassie Johnson  24:41  
Yeah, kind of throughout the day. I had I keep a Google form. I'm like, okay, Date Time student. What did we do things like that. I try to keep up with that as much as possible throughout the day, but no, not every day is ended with paperwork. It's a little more kind of scattered and mixed. Other than that, but I will say also, like the kiddos I mentioned that I see at the very beginning of the day because they might have behavior plans or mental health plans, they usually come and check out with me at the end of the day, too. So it's like a Hey, how was your day? What can we celebrate today? All right, we're gonna try again tomorrow and things like that. And then we have a lot of meetings after school. Because there are to have during the school day, too. But yeah, as far as the school day is concerned, beginning and ending is both like just checking in with students checking out,

Toni Rose Deanon  25:35  
I really love what you said, of just being seen being seen, right, making sure that your students can see you in action, or just see you in different parts of their days, just so that they know you're always going to be checking in with them to make sure they're like self regulating. Right? And I really liked that phrase you said to have, like, let's talk about why this anger that showing up is okay. Because again, that's like emotional intelligence, right? of just like, you know, what, we're going to sit with our feelings, it's okay to feel these things. And let's think about why. It's okay. And then also, how can we shift it to be to become a little bit more productive? Or how can we shift away from the anger, just for like this, this, this time to reflect right? And then you also said like, it is impressive that you spend majority of your time with students I love that jealous I miss my kids every day. And so that's that's really great that like you're prioritizing really being in there with the students that you're supposed to be like caring for, right. I really love that. And I know that I really appreciate just like, seeing other adults just like care, right? Like the whole your student, my student, our student kind of vibe. And the growth mindset. I know, I always tell my students to like, practice doesn't make perfect practice makes progress. And so as long as we continue to move even just a little bit, right, like, that's a celebration, bro like that, we're gonna celebrate that that is such a cool thing. And I really like the shift that I'm seeing in education now of celebrating our students more, rather than like reprimanding them for not meeting this wild goal that was set for them. That like they don't even know how to accomplish right. So, okay, great. Oh, man, what a beautiful day, I feel like I would love to just like just shadow you for the day just to kind of see all the things that students are like struggling with grappling with and also like celebrating because I feel like that, that would bring a lot of joy into my day. And so I know that you're like constantly collecting like building tools. There was one time where like you and Ashton and I were hanging out, we were like stopping to grab, like Legos and building tools for your students. And you were just so excited about this collection. And so you're looking for you're always on the lookout for manipulatives. And now it makes sense, because you're working with younger kids. But like, how do you use that in the sessions with your students?

Cassie Johnson  28:02  
Well, a it helps build your relationship right off the bat, if they know you've got cool stuff in your office, it's always a plus. So it's a couple of different ways. Like some of my students like you don't get the Legos until we do our work. That is your reward for like our session and showing hard work, that at the end, we'll play Legos or play a game, whatever you want. The Legos specifically, and drawing, I really like having just blocks set out. Because what they choose to build, or draw can usually give you a really good insight to what they're thinking of. So like, one kid, like his strategy is drawing, he gets in a fight with a friend, and he'll just draw a picture with sad tears and come hand it to us. And he's like, Alright, cool, then, like, that's his way of communicating. Other kids, they don't want to communicate. But if you give them the chance to visually kind of represent what's going on, then they'll start talking about it. Because naturally, you're going to be like, What are you building, and they'll just create this whole story with it. But in addition to that, I do absolutely have games and things like that. No, school psychologists like to joke that we're experts at UNO, because it's just a game every single school psychologist has. But it's really great. You practice turn taking you practice patience, you practice of dealing with your frustration when someone tells you to draw for and then someone else's draw for more. You know, and then like games like Jenga, or topple where you're building as much as you can until it falls over. Those things are great for my kids that struggle with attention and realizing when their body is called. Because if they're allowing themselves to be kind of disarray. related and all over the place, they're not going to be successful with the game. But if they stop, calm their body, so they're going to do really well with it.

Toni Rose Deanon  30:11  
I feel like there's like so many life lessons in there, right? Like, I can't believe UNO has all of those skills embedded into playing the game. That is that is so incredible. And like, and like you said, right, there's so many different ways to communicate, it doesn't have to be verbal all the time. It could also be building something, it could be, you know, body movement, right? There's so many different ways to communicate. And so, thank you for putting that out there. And, and now I'm just like, oh, that's why like manipulatives are important. It just really allows for students to, to practice skills, other skills, and and I didn't even think to consider. Okay, so listeners, you're going to take a quick break friend announcement. And when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about Cassie's expertise and experiences.

Zach Diamond  31:02  
Hey, there listeners, this is Zach. And we have made it to winter break. This episode is publishing on the 24th. So up here, at least in the Northern Hemisphere, we are on break, we have made it into a wonderful time for teachers to get to relax a little bit, and recharge for the new year, next semester, et cetera. I want to let you all know that we will not be having an episode of this podcast next week that would be on the 31st New Year's Eve. So we are taking the week off. But we'll be back in the new year with brand new episodes for you in a whole new season. Definitely get excited for that because we have some excellent episodes planned. I do have one quick announcement to drop in here from Lisa for you. But then we'll get back into it with Toni Rose and Cassie to talk more about the role of the school psychologist

Lisa Doty  31:48  
Are you an educator who implements blended self paced mastery based instruction in your classroom, join the modern classrooms community of innovative educators worldwide, and receive certified credentials, public recognition and access to exclusive swag. Hi there. I'm Lisa Doty, and I get to work with educators like you as they begin their teacher leadership journey. By applying for the distinguished modern classroom educator credential Applications are accepted on a rolling basis. So you can apply anytime to get started, navigate to www dot modern classrooms.org forward slash distinguished educators. That's www dot modern classrooms.org forward slash distinguished hyphen educators, we look forward to reviewing your submission soon.

Toni Rose Deanon  32:45  
All right, and now our backward Cassie. So here at modern classroom project, it's you know, you know me, you've known me as an educator for a while. And so I transitioned into this role where I'm helping other educators create a more students centered classroom learning environments. And so what that means is that we're really helping students with their executive functioning skills such as like time management, prioritizing, etc, really like making sure that their student voice student choice and student autonomy, right. And so when we're thinking about younger learners, specifically, right, how do you think being a school psychologist aligns with creating the student centered learning environment?

Cassie Johnson  33:25  
Oh, my gosh, so much. It pretty much perfectly aligns with what I do. You know, especially if I'm running an evaluation with a kid seeing if they have some sort of mental health things going on. Or maybe they have ADHD or whatnot. Executive functioning is something that we specifically measure and look at, because it's not only just about like, the learning and stuff, too, but the emotional regulation, the timing it, like you said, it's all so very connected. It's almost like the gears in a kid's head, right is how I like to think about it or like multiple hamster wheels, and one of the hamster falls off and things go crazy. And like how do we keep all the hamsters on the wheels. So, you know, there are a lot of things that teachers have to do in their classroom because the district says the school says they have to have this, they have to have that they have to have that. But one thing that we do require in all of our classrooms is something called a calm corner or a cozy corner. So they can kind of call it whatever they want to kind of design it however they want. But essentially, it's a space for kids to go take a little break. They'll have a little timer and they can like chill in a beanbag play with a puppet or something for a minute and then come back. Which I think is very, very important. Not necessarily talking too much to the executive functioning part of it like you were asking, but I think also just helping teachers build their classrooms and use the right kind of visual supports. You know, some students, if they have a picture of a clock on their desk, it's like there are two totally different students than they would be if they didn't have the picture there. Or like even using timers saying like, okay, by the time the timer goes off, I'd like you to be started with your work because task initiation is really difficult for a lot of our kids. I know I personally have I have pretty severe ADHD. And that's something that's really hard for me, I can't imagine or like, even think about remembering my elementary school years when they're like, Okay, now do this. When you have all of your friends around, you have a classroom full of all of this wonderful information. So it's, it's really just thinking about different strategies and different ways to make it easier on the kids, you know, do they need a little piece of red tape where they need to sit in line up or like where they don't go any further, a little plastic stop sign next to a kid's desk or something does a great job sometimes to help them realize, oh, we can't leave just now. Or something like a visual schedule is another very popular thing, like having the students stay listed out so they know exactly what's coming up. They know what time it's happening. They may not be able to independently tell the time on their own. But they know how to ask and figure those things out. So really, it's about what I would call it classroom accommodations, the little things we can do in the classroom to help just make things easier for everybody. Because if we make things easier for our students, we're also making things much easier for our teachers. And that makes everybody happy. 

Toni Rose Deanon  36:43  
Yes, yes. Yes, I'm so glad you brought this all up to Cassie, because like, I just chuckled so hard when you said that you have severe ADHD. And I'm learning that like I'm also there. And just visual representation, right of things that I need to keep in mind is really, really helpful. And so, you know, when we think about task initiation, right, you're, you're saying students have a hard time, adults also have a hard time with tasks, just starting out tasks, which I think is really funny. But yeah, I think, you know, as much as we can help our students who need a little bit more like scaffolding or support or anything, right, like, I know that I would really appreciate it. If someone were to be like, no, stop right there. You don't actually have to keep going, right? Like, you can stop right there, go rest, go do something else, as opposed to, here's like, all the other things like there's no guardrails. And so I really appreciate you doing that. I also really want to say that I really enjoy the shift from the time out to a calming zone, you know what I'm saying? Like it is now like, not a timeout, like you're in trouble timeout, but like, you know, what, you need a moment. Okay, go have this moment, right. Like, it's not a, oh, my gosh, you just misbehaves, you need to go to that corner. And so I really liked that shift to have not a timeout, right? And not reprimanding you. Because your body is moving in, in many ways that you can't control right now. But like, go to that corner, like, chill out, like, it's cool, you know, like, pop some little things, you know, do a little twist, turn around, jump up and down, I don't care, do what you got to do to like, regulate your body. And then when you're ready, you can like come and join us. And so because I know that, that when I worked with middle schoolers, that was really important for my middle school kids who needed those breaks, like they could just go and like, you know, honestly, I gotta go walk for like, two minutes cool, go like, not, you're not in trouble, go do what you got to do to like, release whatever it is that you need to release. And so this just got me really excited about the visual representations. And I know that sometimes your educators get a little overwhelmed with like, oh, my gosh, what you know, but they have to look cute. And it's like, no, they don't have to look cute at all, like, you could just have that blue painters tape. And that like, symbolizes something right. And so I'm not the most creative teacher when I was in the classroom. So I just kind of made what I did. And my students are able to, like, just catch up. So you don't have to create like this really Instagrammable worthy visual representations, you could just make it as simple as possible for your students to be able to better understand. So thank you for those reminders. And so how can working with you help students feel successful in their learning environment? So you do pull out to do small groups, you check in with them in the classroom? So how do you how do you see that like, does it I guess what I'm asked I guess I'm just go back to the question. How can working with you helps students feel successful in their learning environment?

Cassie Johnson  39:49  
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing besides the role of the school psychologist is just build the relationship with the kid. The number one One thing is having your students feel like you're on their team, that they have someone that they can ask for help someone that they trust. If they don't like you, and they don't see you, as somebody that they can be honest and joke around with, they're probably not going to feel like you're helping them very much, they're probably going to see you as Oh, now I gotta go talk to this lady about my feelings and stuff. But yeah, like, I tell my kids, like, at the end of the day, I'm like, I love you. I'll see you later. I'll see you tomorrow. You know, they want to say it back. Wonderful, wonderful for them. But also just offering that up. If a student's feeling sad, or something, do you want to hug. So many people just feel so much better after a hug. And, you know, just having that human connection, you know, the human drive to have community and relationships is number one important thing. But then I think, you know, the other part too, is the growth mindset. I tell them, I don't need you to be perfect. I just want you to try. And you know, sometimes, you know what, you had a hard day, you had a long night, and some terrible things happened. Just be here. That's enough. And just trying to like, find those sweet spots with your kiddos. And then also just, I tell them all the time, asked me for help with whatever it is, I have no idea how to do Common Core math. Let me tell you, this stuff is so much different than how I learned. I go in there. And they're like asking for help. And I'm like, I can tell you the answer. But I have no idea what you're actually doing. And you know, allowing them to help you and giving them the chance to feel like oh, they're changing you. They're helping you. You're, they're bringing you joy, and things like that. So I think that's the number one thing. You know, some students, when they're a little bit older, we're able to kind of track their goal progress. And they're like, Yes, I'm, I'm making progress. I'm doing it, I'm doing great. And when they can see that they really appreciate it. But the younger ones, I think they just want to share their successes with you. And if you allow them to celebrate their successes, then they're going to work for you. And they're going to try their best. And they're going to take what you have to say to heart.

Toni Rose Deanon  42:22  
Yes, yes, yes. And yes. And I think I wholeheartedly believe it takes one adult to change the trajectory of a child's life. And, and so, you know, adults who continue to love on a child and even just like making sure that they're okay, can make such a huge difference. And I know that there was something that I was reading where a two minute hug can really just change everything, like the mood, you know, and I just like kind of calms everything down. But if you think about two minutes is a long time. That's Hunter. Yeah, it is. So maybe not two minutes, but like, it really does change the mood, like it makes you feel closer to that person. And so I like the concept of asking, Hey, do you want to hug right, like asking for consent first to make sure it's okay. And then just like that hug is itself is such a simple gesture, but it makes such a huge difference. And I just chuckled a little bit about common core math, because I completely feel the same way about teaching math. And it just made me think again, as you know, our model here modern classroom is really creating like a blended, self paced and mastery based learning environment. And so our teachers actually create instructional videos. So I like when you were talking, I was like, Oh my gosh, if you know, if you had a teacher who was using our model, they would have the video and then you and the kid can like watch the video together, figure it out together. Which I think is again like another thing that I really love about our model two is just that it makes learning that much more of a community thing and not just like independently, right? So we can pull in like our school psychologists, our you know, our co teachers, our families and really like learning this thing together. And so yeah, that's that's really really really funny that you say that because common core math man, I am so glad I did not teach math. Yeah, I don't know. That could not be me.

Toni Rose Deanon  44:23  
My Asian ancestors are definitely not happy with that statement. Not a day, okay.

Cassie Johnson  44:32  
Well, it's crazy because like, there were first graders working on fractions today in class and they're loving that like actually adding fractions and stuff, but they're working on fractions. They have no idea and I'm like, Whoa, this is it's a lot, but it's good for ya.

Toni Rose Deanon  44:50  
Yeah. It's it's so good because you know, you can use fractions a lot in our daily lives actually. And so it's really good but can you imagine like first great teaching that oh my gosh, there's just so many different ways to teach math and to get folks under. Anyways, that's a whole other conversation. So, okay, so Cassie, I guess like what I'm, I'm wondering now even as an educator myself, and I'm sure our listeners too is like, how can educators collaborate with you? So like, if you could have it any way? How would your relationship with teachers and other stakeholders look and sound?

Cassie Johnson  45:24  
That is an excellent question. I don't think anyone has ever asked me if I could have it my way. What would that look like? I can't even comprehend that right now. Honestly, that's insane. Um, I guess office hours would be like, my main thing, like things people don't have to come to. But you know, the office, I share with the social worker, it's a big space, we've got a couch in there, it's pretty inviting. A lot of times teachers just kind of come in and chat, which is fine most of the time, right. But we do also have like what's called professional development days. So those are times where maybe I could come in and present on our schools behavioral data, or mental health data, things like that. I know today, I wasn't able to attend. But our after school PD was something all about improving your cozy corner, and like different strategies to apply with, like some low level behaviors. So that's always an opportunity. In the past, I've sent out a couple of newsletters. But one thing I'm going to start this year is kind of like a little mini info sessions. And I sent out a survey to the teachers and asked like, Would you be interested in this? And what would you even want to learn about, and they had some really good ideas like empathetic teaching was one of the most requested topics. And I saw that and I was surprised because I'm like, my teachers are amazing. They're very empathetic. But like, people always want to grow and get better. You know, one of the topics was, you know, you got a kid who was just either failed, or had an evaluation to see if they qualify for special education. What does any of this data in here meaning? You know, a lot of times I think, especially the world of special education, people are just like, yeah, you're the experts. You do you because we use a lot of terminology that isn't used, there's a lot of legalese that happens and things like that. So, you know, at the very beginning of the year, any of the teachers that share one of my kids like when my kids on my caseload, we start that relationship super early. We're like, Okay, how are we going to implement this plan this year? When am I going to support this student? How would you want me to support if I'm coming into your classroom to support that student, so that's something that continues with those students with formal plans very early on throughout the year. The way that a teacher kind of requests some sort of console with myself or the social worker, is we asked them to make something called an MTS s referral. So in education, we love acronyms, there are so many letters for everything. MTS, s used to be called RTI, which was response to intervention. And now it's multi tiered, services and supports, I don't know, it changes all the time. But they basically fill out this Google Form. They're like, Hey, I've got this student, I have concerns in these areas, let's get together and meet. So pretty much every Tuesday on my calendar, after school, we have an MTSS meeting with one of our teachers. And they always start off as kind of like a problem solving meeting, like, Okay, I'm having this problem, what should I try? What should I do? And then just kind of depending on how the conversation goes, we're like, okay, we're going to set a goal, we're going to collect data, and then I kind of help support in how we collect that data. And then when we get it, looking at it and be like, Okay, did our strategies that our interventions that we tried, did it change anything? Is it better? Is it worse? Do we need to shift things up a little bit? So I would say like, kind of those meetings are probably the most formal form of consultation. But then every kid on my caseload has to have at least one meeting a year with their entire education team. So their classroom teacher, and absolutely everyone that works with them. And it's a time to the parent to come in and hear about what's going on and make an update changes to the plan. So that is something that always has to happen. But most of my collaboration is really kind of informal dropping by like, hey, Cassie, this happened today. I did this was that the right thing? Or I have no idea how to respond to this kid when they say that. What do you say? A lot of it's very informal.

Toni Rose Deanon  49:56  
I love that. So there I mean, there's definitely so many ways Ways to collaborate with you and just so many ways to learn with and from you, right, and I, one of the things that I really just kind of been sitting with me is the mini info sessions. And just the ability, they're just basically provided for teachers to just kind of name what they want to learn more about. And I think that that in itself makes it that much more effective. As far as info sessions are concerned, it will be something that they want to do and want to learn more about. And so that's, that's really, really, really incredible. Thank you for all the work that you're doing with your, with your community, with your students. And just like, in general, that's really, really dope, Cassie, I'm just like, so proud, I'm so proud. 

Cassie Johnson  50:45  
Well, and I live in my community to like the school I work in is my community school, if I had kids, that's probably where they would go. So I definitely feel strongly about supporting my community. I wish it was kind of like the old days when one community like had everything, instead of kind of the sprawling metropolis. You know, even we have something called a community hub for our school. And this community hub can provide things like rental assistance help, parents get signed up for different like classes, if they're a multi language learner. Just advocacy help with education, understanding the education system, things like that. Our community hub is about 30 to 45 minutes away from our school, which is a wonderful resource. But the city itself is huge. So really trying to find as much close by, like really tied in with the community that my social worker, and I can provide is really the best option. 

Toni Rose Deanon  51:50  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been sitting a lot with with just community like, what does it look like to be in community? So I'm, I'm really glad that we're talking about this too, of just being able to provide a space for folks to just be in community. Okay, the question for you, what do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have? 

Cassie Johnson  52:13  
I want to see education fully funded, and special education fully funded. Number one, louder for the people in the back, fully educate every type of education or fully funded education. We are always needing more money. And I hate that it comes down to that all the time. But I just like think about what could we do more, if we had that money? You know, I earlier I talked about the ratio of a school psychologist and how I feel very lucky where I am in my role. Now, I think every school should have that every single school should have a full time psychologist and social worker. As I said, you know, I'm lucky, I have a ton of support with me on my team, we are always busy, there is always more to be done. We are almost always eating on the go, when we can hear in there running around things like that. And if we had more support, we wouldn't have to do that. If teachers had smaller classrooms, because we could afford more rooms and a larger building and more teachers, they could create better relationships with their students, and they're trying so hard. But if you have a teacher that has like 28 kids in your classroom, there's only so much one person can do. So like, like you were saying that being in the classrooms. That's something that at the beginning of the year, we really prioritize. We want people in and out of classrooms all the time. We want people to feel like they're supported, that they can ask for help that and that there are people there to help them. And I just wish everybody could feel that at school. Because I know people don't. Yeah,

Toni Rose Deanon  53:57  
yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a great like, future. 

Cassie Johnson  54:04  
Yeah. Besides the funding, I would say more mental health support is probably the one thing that I would love to see. I think if we can really meet kids and families where they are, and really focus on them as people like that's when we're gonna get our school system working really well.

Toni Rose Deanon  54:23  
And again, it's you know, a community working together, leaning in and leaning on each other. Because we can't do this work by ourselves. It's a lot of work. So we really have to, to be in community to be able to better serve ourselves and our students as well. Thank you for that reminder, Cassie. So how can our listeners connect with you? 

Cassie Johnson  54:45  
Okay, if listeners want to connect to me, probably the easiest way is through email. My email is C Johnson, E D s@gmail.com. The EDS stands for my specialist degree Most school psychologists, they don't really do master's level school psychologists anymore, you really need to pursue either a specialist degree or your PhD to be in the field, which is maybe one reason why people don't want to come into it. But it's a really rewarding job. And honestly, I really do have fun every single day. So just another plug for school psychology. If you want to come work in education, come join us. We're really fun people.

Toni Rose Deanon  55:31  
I really love this so much, Cassie. And also just like, I have some really dope people in my life like you and Ashton, I appreciate both of your presence. I just appreciate you being in this podcast with me. And I get to learn more about you professionally, which is so exciting because I feel like we don't really talk about stuff professionally. So I will come visit you soon in Denver, just so that we can keep heat up and just be in community together. And so, listeners remember, you can always email us at podcast at modern classrooms.org. And you can find the show notes for the episode of podcast at modern classrooms.org/ 170. We'll have this episode's transcript uploaded by Friday so be sure to check back to access those. Also we are asking your listeners to leave a review of this podcast has been helpful in supporting you to create a blended self paced and mastery based learning environment. It does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week. And we'll be back next Sunday. Cassie, you're a rock star. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Cassie Johnson  56:30  
I love you, Toni Rose.

Zach Diamond  56:36  
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at WWW dot modern classrooms.org. And you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn dot modern classrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modern class proj. That's p r o j we are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the modern classrooms project podcast.