Kate Gaskill 0:10 Welcome to Episode 23 of the Modern Classroom Podcast. My name is Kate Gaskill, Head of Teaching and Learning here at Modern Classrooms. And I am joined by co-host Modern c=Classroom mentor, and middle school educator Zach Diamond. Zach Diamond 0:24 Hey, Kate, how are you? Kate Gaskill 0:26 I'm good. How you doing? Zach Diamond 0:27 I'm doing well. Doing well. Kate Gaskill 0:29 And this semester, you're hanging in there? Zach Diamond 0:31 Yeah. Oh, we're past that now. And I'm grading is in my past now. So I'm doing much better. Kate Gaskill 0:36 That is, that's the best place to be the big grading in your past and very timely for tonight. And we're also joined by Modern Classroom mentor and high school Geosystems Teacher, Moira Mazzi. Moira, I know you've been on the podcast before. But could you remind our listeners a little bit about your career in education and experiences with Modern Classrooms? Moira Mazzi 0:58 Yeah, definitely. So I'm so happy to be on the podcast again. And currently teaching at a suburban high school in Fairfax County, with 11th and 12th graders. And this is my 15 year teaching. I previously taught in DC for two years, mostly as an ESL teacher, but also a science teacher. And then before that, I was at another suburban high school in Virginia, teaching earth science to ninth graders for about nine years. And the first two years of that I was a special education teacher. So I've been in a lot of different settings. And I've taught special education, ESL students, and I feel like I teach all three now in my current position, I started as a fellow with modern classrooms in 2019. And now I've moved in to being one of the mentors. And the whole experience has really just changed the way I think about certain things in the classroom. As a teacher, my two main goals are to help students learn and progress. That's goal number one. And then goal number two is to inspire students. And so in order to do that, I definitely have to be rested, and just like healthy, because I can't be inspiring students at all, if I'm not coming from a good place, and how can I be coming from a good place if I'm constantly underneath a whole bunch of paperwork and things that I need to get done? So I feel like it's all sort of a house of cards. And I did learn through modern classrooms, how to grade daily. Now, I was nervous when I first started implementing modern classrooms, because I realized, like, Oh, I'm gonna have to have my grades updated every day. Like, I've never done that before on a daily basis. And I don't know if I can do it. Like, I don't know if I have time at the end of the day to get this done. But I said, Okay, let me give it a try. And so over the course of that first year, I learned a couple of tricks for or systems like we're talking about today for how to get that done. And we can talk we can get more into those but major mindset shift about the grading. And really, some of it, really, is this idea that like I am here to help students learn and be better. So why don't I make like this, this major thing, grading and feedback that has shown to improve student's learning? Why don't I focus on that? Kate Gaskill 3:45 More it was modern classrooms that really, you said, the public pacing tracker, and these ideas of you want kids to stay on pace, modern classrooms, really, it was what made it realistic for me, I had heard these things. But it wasn't until I started implementing, you know, my self paced blended classroom that this mastery based element became real and therefore, you know, frequent feedback could become real. Zach Diamond 4:14 The biggest shift has been from the idea of grades as a measure of how intelligent you are, to really a measure of how much progress you've made in the unit. And I'll talk about this, as we get further into the into the outline here. But the way that my unit is structured is basically a sequence of 10 lessons, each with a mastery check. And so the kids who are falling behind, it's not because they're less smart, it's because they're working more slowly, which can be for a number of reasons. I don't think it has that same stigma attached to it as if I were like publicly displaying their grades, right? It would be like advertising who's smart and who's not smart, which I would never do because it would be cruel, but Progress Tracker is a it's a Progress Tracker, it helps me see where they're at in the unit, as opposed to seeing, you know what I would have used We have thought about a grade, which is basically how well they did on a particular piece of work. And I think that using the Progress Tracker has also shifted the mindset of my students as well to one of progress rather than sort of intelligence or smartness. The way that I plan the units, I know what the outcome is going to be. And so then I say, Well, what are the steps that the students have to complete in order to make the song and then I build a mastery check around those steps, I literally make the mastery check document before I make anything else for that lesson. Like I say, Okay, for this lesson, you have to record your lyrics or whatever the task is, right? And that's the mastery check. They have to show me that they've recorded their lyrics. And then I will, you know, I'll plan a lesson around, what do I have to teach them in order to have them do this correctly. And that's how I unit plan. Moira Mazzi 5:53 Because this was the other thing that I learned, this isn't like traditional grading, where you pass out an assignment, and then you get however many back and you grade that one assignment, I was opening a unit with seven lessons. So some times I was getting back, you know, seven different assignments, and then also mastery checks from some of those. So I had like a lot of different things going. And I couldn't quickly remember all of the mastery of each of those different lessons. But if I had it written out in a folder, I was so much faster to graded at the end of the day, when I was tired. Yeah, and I didn't want to have to use like that mental bandwidth to try to figure that stuff out. So it made me faster to be able to have that done in the planning phase. Zach Diamond 6:39 I've always really wanted to be able to do in class grading, but I never was able to in a traditional model, because I could never pull myself away from a conversation with a kid in enough time to grade 25 kids, you know, in a 15 minute period, like, it feels impersonal and kind of weird to like, grade them and then leave grade the next kid and leave grade that so I could never figure out how to do in class grading. But now, you know, a kid will say, Mr. Diamond, I finished lesson five, can you look at it? And I'll say, okay, and I'll look at it. Or if I'm in the middle of something, I'll say, Hang on just one sec, why don't you start watching the video for Lesson Six. And I'll look at it when I get around to it. And right there in class, I can grade them, it's much more manageable, because the kid tells me that they need it. And I know and it's on my to do list right then and there. And it's not 25 In one go. Moira Mazzi 7:27 Instead of a student having to wait wait a week or two weeks to figure out that they need to retake something by them, they don't even care about it. And they like you know they've moved on, they're excited about it in the moment. And if you have time to grade it either right then or even into the next class, they're much more likely to take the retake, to do well on the retake or to incorporate the notes that you've put in on to their written work and incorporate that into our revision. So I think that that's part of this idea that this really does improve student performance. And this is part of why Zach Diamond 8:07 the must dos, you know, I think that students must do them. Right. And that's, that's why we call them that. And if we're going to say that you have mastered this or that you have learned this, you have to do this, right. And so those must dues have to be accessible, as much as possible to as many students as possible. And the should do, I use should dues as sort of like an extra layer in the mastery check. So for some students who are really struggling, or who are really far behind, I will say, why don't you skip this part of the mastery check and just do this other part of the mastery check, which is the must do the should do is sort of baked in, but it's not required to pass the mastery check they aspire to is our whole lessons in and of themselves that students can either do or skip. Yeah. And also in some cases where it's necessary, I would I would do an alternate assessment I would do, maybe just sit down with the kid and talk with them. And I could see for myself in conversation with them. If they'd master it, there was never any document involved. Or I could make a new a new document if I needed to that's happened once. It's pretty rare, I think but maybe just to hammer home the point that it's really important to be flexible in the modern classrooms model. And it allows us to do that. We at the end of the day, the teachers are the ones who determine whether the kids have mastered our lessons. And so being flexible and finding ways to assess students that meet their needs. And you know, I think that in terms of sustainability for us, we can do that we can sit down with the kid because you know, I talked about this before and you did to like that meaningful busy, but that relaxed busy. You know, we're not like there's not like 8 million other demands of our time in that moment. So we can sit down with a particular kid who needs us. Moira Mazzi 9:51 I just tried to use all that Google Classroom and do for us. So I do use EdPuzzle the mastery checks that are Multiple choice, those are automated. The assignments have a rubric, the project, the written portion of the mastery check has a rubric that I can use. So I just tried to really utilize every little online trick that I can to save myself time, but also create relationships with the students and basically maximize the time. So it's sustainable for me, and that the students are getting what they need. Yeah. Zach Diamond 10:31 And actually, in some ways, that's even saving me time, because if I read a good comment, and the student understands it, then they might not need to check in with me again, they might just be able to revise the work from the comment. And that saves me in class time. If I don't need to check in with them. Again, I can work with other students who do need my time. Moira Mazzi 10:50 For sure, I think that it's sort of the trifecta see of the instructional model that modern classrooms is providing. And then you have this, the power of this timely grading and feedback for students. And then if you can also incorporate really strong parent, student teacher relationships, then you are starting to have a really, really strong program, and you're helping to truly be able to reach every single student. And so as as a routine, I update my grades every day, but then I send progress reports out every Monday to students and to parents to all every week, everyone, it doesn't matter if you're you have a D and F or if you have an A everyone, every week, every Monday, I've been doing that the entire year. So that's a routine for me. But also, students don't feel like you know, they're getting in trouble. If I send any communication home to their parents, they're just used to it. Also, so that parents get that consistency, that they know that they're going to see a progress report every Monday from me the fact that the tracker is public, and the fact that the students are holding us accountable in a way for this daily grading, I feel like we're leading by example. So it's sort of like, I'm asking you to be organized and to use your time well. And that's what I'm going to do every day. And so you're seeing me do that. And then I think that you have more legitimacy in their eyes, and they're like, I can do this too, I'm going to do it. And they try to organize themselves and they perform better in the class. And I think all around, they feel better. And I think that for some of the students that struggle a little bit, they understand how to jump back into the game, because I like Zack was saying, you're not just like you're failing, I'm notifying you that you're failing. You're like, you need to complete lesson three and four. And they're like, Okay, and it's concrete. And so they can get back in. Zach Diamond 12:59 After students get over that kind of initial shock of like, What do you mean, I have to do it again, I turned it in, which happens after like a month, you know, that you're actually holding them to true mastery, before they can move on is sort of a mindset of revision and the value of revision, they start to learn, like, Did I do it right? Or do I have to revise it and they're more willing to revise it once they understand that they're being held accountable for mastery. And that is really, really incredible to see. Because they'll the way that they talk to you about their work, it changes. I don't know how to exactly describe it. But the language they use the words they say the way that they talk about their work is more open to it being wrong and open for revision than it was before when it was like I'm either gonna get it right or I'm gonna fail. And it was a very fixed mindset. And now it seems like more of a revision oriented and growth oriented mindset that I'm seeing in my students. Kate Gaskill 13:52 Thank you. Thank you to you the listener. Thank you, Zach and Moira and have a wonderful week educators. Moira Mazzi 13:58 Thank you so much too Kate. Zach Diamond 14:01 Thanks, Kate.