Episode 89: Impacts of Self Pacing Voiceover: Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. Each week we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self-paced, and mastery-based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. Hello, and welcome to episode 89 of the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. My name is Tony Rosennan. She her pronouns a community engagement manager. It's a new title at Modern Classroom. And I'm joined by a new expert mentor, Paul O'Donoghue, whom I've had the pleasure of getting to know, and Rebecca Mason, an amazing implementer whom I've had the pleasure to observe and be in the same room with. And both of our guests are actually first time podcast people, so, like, they've never been on a podcast before, which is really exciting. So hopefully this experience is a good one. So welcome, Rebecca. Hello and welcome, Paul. Hey, everyone. Thanks, Tony Rose, for having us. Yeah, and it's so exciting to be in this space with you both. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. So before we get started, I really like to do a human connection and kind of feeling on how we're doing. And so, Rebecca, how are you feeling today? I'm doing well. I had a really good day at school today and can't wait to do this with you. Yes, and you're just telling me. Also, you have four and a half weeks left of school, which is really exciting. So something to celebrate. And Paul, how are you doing? Yes, kind of the same. The weather is starting to turn, which is great. And the end of the school year is funny. I think as teachers, we love being in the classroom, and we also look forward to summer equally as much, which is kind of funny that we feel both of those things. So yeah, all those good feelings. Yes, I know. The weather has just done some wonders, right? Okay, so tell us more about who you are and how you started your Modern Classroom journey. Rebecca, let's start with you. Well, my first introduction to Modern Classroom was actually seeing new implementers use it in math classes in my school, and I got to observe and see some of what they were doing. And at first I was like, I don't know if this would work with my population. I teach first year Newcomer English Language Learners. I do some intervention classes as well. So I specialize in teaching high school students as they first enter the country and start to learn English. But I did some more research into it, and I was given the opportunity to do the training, and I loved it. I loved it, and I've jumped in with both feet. Beautiful. Thank you, Paul. So I teach high school math in Franklin, Massachusetts. This year, I'm teaching precalculus and Algebra Two. And I ran into the Edge Utopia video on Modern Classroom that Cream Farrah kind of stars in. And I think I ran to it on Twitter right sort of after Kobe started in the spring and during that summer. And I watched that video and I was like, oh, my gosh, I need to do this. It just sort of clicked with me. But going into the school year, we were starting remotely and then eventually moving into hybrid. And so I sort of did, like, baby steps into Modern Classroom. So I started doing instructional videos and started doing must do, should do aspire to do activities, but didn't really jump all in until this year. And I did the free course modern Classroom has coming into the summer, and I've been all in since September this year, me and one other teacher that I teach in our math department. So I became a distinguished educator and then a mentor. So I'm all in at this point, kind of like Rebecca said. And I just really love reading your tweets, Paul. It always makes me laugh. Yeah, my desire is to quit teaching and just be a full time sweeter, but I don't know how realistic that is. I will manifest that for you. All right, well, we've been talking about self pacing this season, and this is actually our last featured episode of the season. Yay. So before we dive into impacts of self pacing, let's talk about what self pacing looks like in your classroom. Let's start with Paul. Sure. I'd say my classroom kind of looks like hopefully what traditional Modern Classroom should look like. And I think that video that I mentioned that Modern Classroom has with Kareem sort of talking through the model, I sort of tried to base it exactly of what that looks like and then what the free course spells out. So I sometimes think like, oh, if Kareem walked into my classroom, would he be proud of me? That's kind of like, how I sort of think about it. But as far as in my classroom start, curriculum is split into 14 units, and so students can self pace through those units. So we might have a unit that has four objectives in it, and so the students can pace through those four objectives, but then I provide those suggested guidelines so that we can all sort of advance to the next topic right around the same time. So that way we're sort of moving together as a group, but it's fluid within those units. So I like to say to the students that I'm kind of like a highway speed limit sign. So you see sort of like speed limit 75, but then sometimes you also see like, max, or it says minimum speed 55. So I try to keep students in those range. It's like you can only go this fast or this slow because we do need to sort of move a little bit as a group, but there's a lot of flexibility kind of within those units for students to go at the pace that they need. And I really like that analogy, too, right. Of the speed limits of like, hey, you can go this fast, or like, you actually have to go this slow. So I really like those guiding those guidelines for your students, which is great. And I also just chuckled my and you said, is Cream going to be proud of me for doing this? Like, what I'm doing? That's awesome. Yeah, it really helps to center me, too. It's kind of a reminder of if I'm ever feeling like I'm off or I need to check in on something, like the materials I have for the free course. And that video, it reminds you of the why. Yeah. And that's a really good way to just pause and reflect. Right. So I appreciate you sharing that. That's great. Rebecca, what about you? What does self pacing look like in your classroom? I have a very different classroom in a lot of ways in that because I'm teaching immigrants as they enter into the country, essentially, I get them all year long. So I have students starting unit zero in August or in September when they when they first start the year. And I had a student start unit zero today, so it's very different. I have four units plus unit zero that I do throughout the year, and I have students in the same classroom on different units because of where their English proficiency level is. And I can kind of modify that given their English language proficiency as well as where they're at in the curriculum and able to do it, because a good number of my students at this point of the year are starting to audit, of course, and won't be able to get credit in the course, but I still want them to improve their English language proficiency. So being able to have them self paced through language learning is incredibly valuable because it lets them watch the videos that I've made, and sometimes a single lesson will have five or six videos because they need those examples of natural speech in English. So this self pacing lets them watch those videos as many times as they need, read the text as many times as they need, and for each individual student, depending on their educational background or language proficiency, that can vary quite a bit, and that really helps in my classroom. Yeah, that's a really good point. And Rebecca, I wanted to kind of follow up with a question that's not on the script. My bad. Do you see that for students who are coming in, who are starting unit zero, like, today, right. Students who have been in your classroom, are they willing to help that new student? How does that look? They are 100% willing to help. My new student who started today had a team of three people after I had shown him how to do it, gathering around him, walking him through the first notes in the first video and showing him how to do these things. And I, of course, make my unit zero as friendly as possible. The notes are color coded and highlighted. What you need to write down. You don't necessarily have to understand what you're writing in the first place for the unit zero, you just have to be able to find the right thing to copy for the unit zero because that's where language proficiency they're at for the most part. So being able to do the process together and having someone who may speak their first language explain it to them and understand the process as well as start to get some basic vocabulary words, they are 100% on board in helping this new student. They compare schedules and already talking about how they're going to get him to his next class. And they're wonderful, they really are. And that's the community aspect of a classroom, right? And sometimes there is misconceptions, of course, of like, all our students don't know how to speak the language, so therefore they can't do ABCD and it's like, no, actually, when we take away all those barriers and we have clear guidelines, students are able to do it regardless of whether they're fluent in English or not. And I've noticed that, especially with modern classroom, I'm finding that some of those barriers between first language differences are going down as well because they're able to practice some of the model conversations that I've given them with a speaker of another first language and being able to kind of show each other on the computer screen on what they're supposed to do, because so much of this is a process that they can help each other with and they're helping each other whether or not they speak the same first language. And it's wonderful. And I think that was what Charlie was talking about in a previous episode, podcast episode, was that there's a human factor of it and then there's a procedure factor of it, right? So you think about humans working together and also creating clear procedures so humans can follow those and that it's as easy as user friendly as possible. Paul, go ahead. Yeah. So Rebecca, I just loved what you were saying about language earlier. My fiancee and I started doing Duolingo this year and it made me think so much about how language lends itself really well to self pacing because she has a 100 day streak and a background in Spanish. And I was on Unit One learning how to say cat and we just had this funny sort of moment of realizing it really needs to be personalized for learners. And this is me advertising for Duolingo, even though I have nothing to do with them. It's such a fantastic experience to see how when you can learn a language in a way that works sort of personalized for you. It makes a huge difference for learning to speak, read, write, and listen, all those things. Yeah, I really need to get on that duolingo. I hear great things about it, and I've never touched it. And I think it's honestly because I don't have Filipino and I'm like, I need to have Filipino because I need to self pace my own language. All right, well, thank you for sharing, Rebecca. So what were one to two things you had to revise when you start implementing self pacing in your classes? Rebecca, we'll start with you. The most fascinating one that I was not anticipating having to revise was the should dos and the aspire to dos, because I found that if I gave them the option to do something, they would do it no matter what. They are so new to language learning and so engaged that they wish to do absolutely everything they can possibly do. The mass majority of them, if you give them a list of things that they can accomplish or should accomplish, they will go through all of them no matter what. So I found myself having to dos and aspire to do assign these enrichment things individually, because otherwise they will all want to do them. Whether or not they have the time to do them within the unit or whether or not they need that enrichment, they will do them all because they wish that educational opportunity. And that's so interesting that you mentioned that, Rebecca, because we've had a good number of implementers saying, I can't get anybody to do this, should do, and this buyer to do. But you're having the opposite problem where they want to do all of it. And so now it's like we have to really be intentional with their must do so that they could focus on those must dos and they don't necessarily have to do all of the tasks. Well, I do always have those students who don't want to do the must use those. You always have the students who are, like, a little slow on the uptake, but they'll get there eventually. I don't have many of those. Modern Classrooms seems to have gotten most of those issues out of the way, but usually if they do the must dos, they go straight to the should do, and they don't want to miss out on an opportunity to learn something, especially when you've got so much motivation at the beginning of a language learning process. At this point in their language learning journey, they're learning essential skills, and they want to learn as many of them as possible. Yeah, and that's beautiful. We got to keep that momentum going. Like, we have to keep it going. So what about you, Paul? What were one or two things you had to revise when you start implementing self pacing? Yeah, I think what I realized initially, especially this being my first year with Modern Classroom, was the suggested guidelines that I had for units and objectives and lessons just went out the door within a week. It was like, oh wow, this lesson is going to take two and a half classes. And I thought it was going to take one or oh my gosh, students are already done with this, and I thought it would take them two days. So I think just blending modern classroom with your curriculum takes some trial and error. And I'm sort of balancing kind of giving students those suggested guidelines, but also sort of letting the class set the pace too. So I had to sort of figure out how much time do they need, but how can I also make guidelines meaningful so that students are engaged with the lessons, right. Instead of extending a guideline? Because students are finding themselves disengaged, like trying to get them reengaged to meet those guidelines. So it took a little bit of trial and error, I think probably until the winter into the spring, I started having a better feel for how long lessons should take. That balance between suggesting those guidelines, but then also sort of letting the class drive the pace too, and then kind of responding to that going forward. Yeah. So Paul, clarifying question. When you were thinking about the suggested deadlines, right? So students were either taking too long or taking a lot of time, or they are done within 30 minutes. Right. Was there a pattern of maybe the kind of skills that needed more time versus the skills that didn't need a lot of time? I think the mistake I actually made in the beginning was offering too much choice. I would have two must do activities, two shadows and two aspire to dos, and there was just so much for the students to look at and to engage with that. I think it actually had the opposite effect, where they were kind of overwhelmed by it and they didn't know which activities were meaningful. So I ended up the more you have, if your quantity goes up, then your quality goes down. So I think I had to learn that it's actually better if I give students a choice of two things versus the choice of five or six. So that helped a lot because then it seemed like everything the students were engaging with, they were choosing to because it was meaningful and not because they had to or not because it was just one of six assignments they were supposed to complete. I really love that reflection and thank you for sharing that because I know it's really important for us to keep in mind too, that quality, we always want to have quality over quantity. And I think this is what I tell implementers and listeners all the time, is that less is actually more. And something too that I've realized with myself is that when I have too many options, my brain shuts down and I can't function. You have to give me at least two, and then I can pick either option one or option two, and that works for me. So I really like that you named that. Paul. Is that like, we love for our students to have options. At the same time, we want those to be limited and not overwhelming. So, again, thank you for sharing that. When you realize that you are doing a lot more work than you needed to. The students responded well after. Yeah, and I think actually a nice change was that I started to, with certain lessons, take out should do activities and just leave the Aspire to dos, or I'd switch it. The next lesson would have a must do and a should do, but no Aspire to do. So it was almost like when things started popping up, students were like, oh, this is the first should do in a couple of lessons. I should engage with this. Yeah, just like you said, less is more. I think it kind of helps students to sort of focus their learning, and they've responded well to it. And we're moving kind of at a better pace as a class versus the start of the year, because I think the start of the year, I was just weighing them down with too much to do. Yeah. And I think sometimes as teachers, we do that right? Like, we get so excited, and we want to do all the things. Oh, wait, wait a minute. We don't need to do all the things. Let's do the minimum, and let's get really good at that and then keep adding on. So, yeah, I appreciate that. Okay, let's move on. Rebecca, I've come to observe your high school class, and I was so amazed at all the cool things you were doing. I was literally on a high the entire day because I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so great. And so you have students who are, like you said, newcomers to the United States with different native languages and are at the beginning level of English. So how has self pacing changed your approach to teaching and learning with the specific demographic that you have in your classes? I think for me, the biggest thing is being able to combine the self pacing with a rolling grade book. And I don't know if you're familiar with a rolling grade book. Essentially everything was assigned in the first quarter is still on the grade book in the fourth quarter. It all comes together. Every assignment that you've assigned throughout the entire year is in that fourth quarter, and it just builds and builds throughout the year. So it means that as these students come in, I can give them the unit zero and the unit one and give them what is what is developmentally appropriate for their language level, what activities they need to do as they progress throughout the year. And it's wonderful. I had students today in my class, some students starting unit zero and some students starting unit three. I had students on level unit one and unit two, and I have a spreadsheet to keep track of this because I have to, but it makes it incredibly self paced because their language proficiency is what I'm looking to improve, not necessarily every activity that needs to be done because it's a different type of class, because units three and units four cover very similar concepts and constructs. So we're doing compare and contrast in unit three, but we're also doing it in unit four and also in unit two, but it's in a different language proficiency level. And I can bring them up through these units further and further and further. So I'm very grateful. My curriculum includes identity and community, so it's very engaging for them. And I can bring those concepts up through the units and improve their language for vicinity through the units. For example, I can have a student, if they finish unit zero in one class period. I can skip unit one and have them start unit two if I think they're ready for it, because their English proficiency level is there if they don't need unit one. And it's wonderful to be able to self pace each individual student where they need to be on that proficiency journey that we take throughout the year through those four units. Yeah, because I know when I walked in, you had four different groups and each group was doing something different, but then the students were still talking to each other or at least practicing the English that they were learning, which I thought was so beautiful. And then I saw you approach individual students and just do check in with them and ask what they've done. And then you shared with us some of your paper copies as well of just like where they're writing stuff and what they're doing and just keeping it as simple as possible. And after your classes dismissed, I saw the students just really interact with each other and try their best to speak in English. And I was just like, this is a community. They feel brave enough to speak as much as they could to really have that community between each other, which I thought was just so beautiful. And that's why I was in awe being in your class because I was just like, oh, this is so cool. This is so cool. Well, thank you for that. One of the activities, every unit we have writing assessments and speaking assessments and reading assessments as well as listening assessments. I do all the four constructs every unit. But in unit two, there's a specific speaking assessment that they struggle with. And sometimes they'll come and try it for the first time, try this mastery check, this speaking assessment. And they won't do very well and they won't pass it. So they'll go back and a group of two to four students of varying first languages will get together and they'll watch the video where I walk them through how to do this speaking assessment. It's a five minute video where I pronounce all the words that they could use. I explain what the directions are, I give them examples and model conversations, and they go through this and they practice with each other, talking in English about their identity and values. And it's wonderful. It's so authentic. They're working in small groups, they're practicing their English, but the goal is to do well on this mastery check, which is that speaking assessment. And it's wonderful and so authentic. And I love it. Yeah, I just saw the magic that was happening and I was again, thank you for allowing me to be in that space and to witness all of that. You're doing some really phenomenal work. So Paul, I haven't had the opportunity to come, opportunities to come and serve you just yet, but just know I may pop in one day. And you said you teach secondary math. So tell us more about your students. How has self pacing changed your approach to teaching and learning? Sure. So I think, like I mentioned, I'm teaching three sections of pre college honors this year. So that's kind of a mix of sophomores, juniors and seniors. And then I have two sections of algebra two, and that algebra two is sort of a part one and then part two. So it keeps students on track to graduate with algebra two. So essentially they would do part one of algebra two as juniors and then part two of algebra two as seniors. So it's kind of interesting that class is already sort of built to give students more time. And then as far as self pacing, I actually had a teacher say to me recently that when it comes to student learning, really, time is the biggest variable, and giving students the right amount of time that they need, whether that's not a lot of time because they understand, or whether that's more time because they need it, because they need more time to understand. So what that does is it sort of allows us to really personalize for each individual student because they're getting the time that they need. We always talk about differentiation as teachers and what does that look like and how to actually differentiate for your students and modern classmates. Certainly the first time that I feel like I'm meeting the needs of all my students because time is sort of that biggest variable there. So it's something that I've thought about a lot recently, because students come into our classes with all sorts of barriers, all sorts of obstacles, but then all sorts of things to celebrate too. And so with all those things that come in, sort of the best thing we can give them as teachers is the time that they need. So them sort of taking the steering wheel and driving the car versus the teacher driving the car and hoping that the students are paying attention instead of looking out the window or whatever it is. So, yeah, it's really been eye opening to see that when you give students time, it's amazing, the learning that can happen. And that's just what you just said really resonated with me, right? Like, our students can come in as a whole being. It's no longer like, oh, they have to sit still and watch me talk at them for 45 minutes or whatever. Right. And, oh, well, if you're having a bad day, we got to keep moving because it is my pace that we're following. But now, like just you said, students come in with different there's barriers, there are obstacles. They have lives outside of our classrooms. And so the self pacing allows for them to come in with that, be in that space for a bit, and then really take ownership of their learning. Like what is their capacity and their time and energy? What does that look like for today's class? And if you're not having a good day, that's okay also, right? Because you still have tomorrow to work on it. You can work on it at home. You can work on it really whenever you have the time and capacity to do so. I really appreciate that, Paul. And you're right with time, right, just allowing them time to process the content the way that they can, the way that they should be able to write. Because I think sometimes I know for me, when I was teaching, I had students with different abilities and coming from different backgrounds. And so for me, for the nine years that I taught, expecting them to learn the same way at the same time was really harmful in a way. Right? And so modern Classroom really opens up that self pacing, that blended learning. And so students can show up authentically as themselves. And I think that that was why I was so amazed at Rebecca's class, too, is because those students were showing up as themselves. They were trying to communicate the best way that they could. And so Rebecca created that space as well, which I think is just so great. And so another question, Paul, for you, right, is that with self pacing, typically as teachers, we have to relinquish control. How is that for you? Oh, man. So between myself and my fiance, I am less of the control person, so I'm sort of self aware about that. And I think modern classroom, it's funny, it gives the teacher a lot of control outside of the classroom, but then inside the classroom, the control is sort of all up to the students. And you kind of have to buy into that idea that, like you said, students are going to come into the classroom with all sorts of different things and they're going to be different people on different days. So you do sort of have to relinquish that and you have to be okay with students having an off day and not getting anything done, because that's going to happen. And you also have to be okay with the student that is flying through and showing awesome understanding and getting it the very first time and then everything in between. Too so I think as teachers, we like having our own classroom. We like being kind of, like I said, the driver of that car. But when you have 30 students sitting in front of you, you sort of lose power very quickly because they're going to be the ones that give you all the feedback you need to kind of make those adjustments. So, yeah, I'm okay with definitely relinquishing the control, but also realizing that teaching is kind of a profession where you do get to have a lot of autonomy at the same time. And I really like that point, too. Reiterating the fact that you actually have all the control outside of that classroom with backwards planning, trying to figure out what self pacing is going to look like, how many lessons, what our mastery checks, you have the control to do all of that, but when you get in the classroom, it's like, okay, now students take ownership and they actually drive their own car, and we're here to guide them through that, which is beautiful. I was going to say that I agree with Paul about time being the determining factor so much when it comes to determining how far and how the students will progress and how well they learn, the time becomes that determining factor, the time to process, the time to get through the material. And that is the same for math. That is the same for language, because math is its own language. To learn those language processing skills, whether it's for the language of math or the language of English, which, again, according to research, is one of the most difficult languages to learn the processing time, it can be so important to be able to sit there and not do anything for five minutes just to process. And so many times in a normal classroom, that would get you in trouble. But with modern classroom, if you need five minutes processing time, this isn't something that we can just do. There you go. There's your five minutes of processing time. And I think that that is so important when it comes to the math and to the language, and just to be able to process what you've just heard and what you've just learned. Rebecca, you're dropping gems here. You're totally right about the math being a different language, because when Paul was saying he taught pre calc honors, I'm like, what is that? Yeah, everything you just said, great. Yeah. Paul, add on. Yeah. So, Rebecca, I love what you were saying about that processing time, too, and Kareem is actually always tweeting about how it's actually okay for students to take the time to disconnect as long as they have the skill to reconnect. And I remember reading he kind of tweets about that subject a good amount, and I read that, and I thought, that is so enlightening because it is okay for students to disconnect, because adults do that. Everybody does that, but we have to teach them the skill of, okay, how much time do I need to disconnect? And then come back into the lessons. So, yeah, I loved what you said about sort of giving students ownership of their time, too. That's another big piece of sort of what modern classroom brings to the table. And you just brought up, both of you, about the processing time, right? And our cultural norms and society norms really were just always on the go, right? There's like a sense of urgency that we're really trying to dismantle at this point. And so really celebrating the fact that some students need time to process and allowing that space for them to process is really a beautiful thing. I know for me, I actually need a lot of time to process things, and it takes a while for me to get going. And so now I know that it's okay for me to pause and to just sit on what I'm thinking about for a bit and then have a response. So I love that. Thank you both for sharing that. All right, so, listeners, we're going to take a quick break for some announcements, and when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about impacts of self pacing. Hi, everyone, it's Karim here from the Modern Classrooms Project. I just wanted to share some exciting news about our big virtual summer institute this summer, the summer of 2022. Now, as many of you all know, the summer is one of the most popular times for folks to learn our model. It's a time where folks can take a step back from their normal classroom experience and really rethink and redesign their approach to teaching and learning. And this summer, we plan to train 30 educators this summer. Now, educators come through a variety of ways. You can enroll individually, you can enroll through a school and district partnership, and this year, we have some pretty awesome regional scholarship opportunities. There are scholarship opportunities for educators if you're located in DC, new York City, Connecticut, Chicago, Seattle, the Twin Cities, or Tulsa. These are folks who can just apply. If you're an educator in these communities, and if you get accepted, you get a full scholarship to our summer institute and some really great perks, including a $500 stipend. So check them out. You can just go to modernclassrooms. Orgscholarships to see the right regional scholarships, and you can just go to our website and you'll see at the top announcement bar. You can learn more about our virtual summer Institute, see the variety of ways you can roll individually or collaborate with us on a school or district partnership. I hope everyone's doing all right. Good luck with the rest of the year. Thank you for all that you do. All right, and now we're back with Rebecca and Paul. So let's talk about impact. How has self pacing impacted your students approach to teaching and learning? And what are some feedback and comments you've heard your students say? I think the biggest impact on my students is, as we were saying before the break, that processing time, when it comes to being able to take on an individual basis, as much processing time as it needs to go through a video or a text as many times as they need, or to sit there and stare at the screen for five minutes until it makes sense. That can be what it takes. And my students have told me because thankfully, I speak in Spanish, so I'm able to talk to them in their first language when they're first starting to learn the program. And they tell me that they feel that they can relax, that if I don't finish it today, I can finish it tomorrow, or if I need to do some of this at home to learn it, I can. I have to do this right now, even if I have a headache. And when so many of my students, especially when we're talking about brand new immigrants in the country, come from not nice places where new immigrants tend to have trauma. And sometimes you need processing time due to a language learning need or to an educational background need, or to a trauma need and having that time to process it. And they are so grateful that if they need ten minutes to just decompress, they have it. It's yours, no questions asked. And the relief in their eyes when they ask if they can have a break. And I say, of course, they say thank you. And it's wonderful, and I think, so meaningful. Yeah. And even for newcomers, it's just a huge adjustment in general, right. No matter where they're coming from, it's just a new adjustment. So new language, new culture, new procedures, new routines, everything is new. So it's very overwhelming. And so it's really nice to be able to create that brave space and also that quote unquote, safe space that they can decompress and process. So thank you for that. What about you, Paul? Yeah, I think students are starting to recognize the why, right? Like, the why of modern classroom and the benefits of it too, I think, especially because I'm passionate about it. So I want to sort of help them see the why and understand that there's a reason that this model works and that we're doing it. But I often ask students for feedback. A lot of it is like anonymous Google forms or just through conversations. But I actually pulled a couple of quotes from a Google form that I recently where I asked students sort of, how would you rate your modern classroom experience? And then can you provide some feedback. So there are two good ones I really like. The first one is I love not ever feeling like I'm behind and being able to stay on a topic I am confused on for as long as I need until I understand it, which I thought was great. I mean, that's how we want students to feel is I think it can be pretty jarring for students to feel like other kids are getting it and they're not. Right. We always hear students mentioning that and so helping students reframe that it's actually okay to take the time you need to help lower that stresses. I just love that comment. And then the second one was, I like that my day can be in my own hands. It's nice thinking about math and knowing that I will go at the right pace for myself and not be rushed or bored in other classes. I never know what to expect, if there'll be a lot of work in the class or if it will be a makeup day. So I always like being able to predict what the class will be, and I thought that was just money. The first line, I like that my day can be in my own hands. It just sort of gives students exactly what they need. And I love that students come in and they know where they left off and what they're starting with. So the feedback has been really positive. Every time I ask students about their experience with it, they always mention just that I love that I can pace myself. I love the time that I have. So that feedback from students has been really valuable. Thank you so much for sharing. I just love our students so much, and the feedback that we get from them is just so heartwarming, right? And sometimes it's a little disheartening, but then sometimes you get comments like that and it's like, you're right. We're creating self directed learners. We're creating students who have soft skills and like the skills that they need to be able to survive and skills that they can take outside of this classroom. So thank you for sharing. And thank you for your students for sharing their feedback as well. So Paul, tell us more about data that you've seen before and after implementing self pacing, a lot of what I've seen comes down to retention of I think it's easy in a classroom to sort of learn something and then move on and kind of forget to rehash them, those skills or that content. But I do try to incorporate a lot of retention opportunities for students. And it's easy to say in the grade book, I can see it, but it really is true that students are retaining a lot this year. And so it's great to see that I can assess on something from a month ago or from earlier in the year, and the students know what they're talking about, like they have a really solid understanding and then just self pacing. It lets you know exactly where every student is and what they need. So I keep a pretty simple Google sheet of I check off students'names once they've moved on to lessons. And then I stole something again, I saw from Twitter, from another modern classroom teacher. It's just like a close Pin chart. So when students move on to the next lesson, they move up their close Pin on just like a ribbon hanging from the wall. And it's silly, but even the high schoolers are they get excited, right? It shows that they're understanding and moving on. So just keeping track of that data, it helps me know kind of who to check in on, like, who needs more of me and who to celebrate, like, who's advancing and just celebrating that growth and that mastery. So it's been great to sort of have every single class that data of what students need from me, where they are, and then those celebrations of moving on to the next thing. Yeah. And that retention is really important. And I also just want to reiterate listeners that clothes pins with high schoolers, it's possible, and it is still so much fun. So don't let that think that it's just an elementary school thing. Rebecca, what about you? Well, I think the biggest source of data for me in the course that I teach is I do reading assessments beginning of the year, mid year, and final reading assessments, and the amount of growth that I'm seeing from the beginning of the year to the mid year, even with the recent online school and the deficits that can come from that, I'm seeing the same growth or slightly more growth than I would see at the mid year mark already this year, some of them have had huge growth, some of them have had more average growth. But I'm seeing students that may not have had the opportunities to expand their language proficiency at a faster rate be able to do that, because they can do those aspire to do and have those opportunities, and I don't have to hold them back with the pace of the class at the same way. And being able to do that has really motivated a good portion of the class to see their own growth. Because I share this data with them. They're reading data there. I give them their score at the beginning of the year, and I tell them what it means, and I show them their score at the middle of the year and I tell them what it means and the same at the end of the year, tell them how much they've progressed in reading and to show them how much they've grown and what their effort is, that I can see their effort in this very tangible way, and they seem to appreciate it. And I've seen this similar growth than I would have in a more traditional classroom, but more growth in certain students who have those additional opportunities. Yeah, you're right. Students love seeing their growth, right. They love seeing how they've grown because sometimes they try to avoid it. And then when you show them, like, no, look at your data, you're growing. This is amazing. So that's really cool. Thank you for sharing. Rebecca. So what is one piece of advice that you would want to share or that you want to share to our listeners? I think the biggest piece of advice that I ever got as a teacher in general, was that until your students feel safe, they're not to learn. And that makes such a big difference with my population, specifically. But I think that they have to feel safe to ask you a question. They have to feel safe from ridicule. They have to feel that they're going to have the time and the support needed to access this information and that sense of safety and that sense of being able to really have that time and that support is more important than anything else. I think that to me, that's the most important thing that we can do is make them feel safe. Yes. I have so much to say, but Paul, go ahead. What is your one piece of advice? Yeah, I'll say it for you, Tony Rose. I totally agree with Rebecca. If students walk into your classroom and feel safe and they feel supported and heard, I mean, it solves all the problems we have as teachers. So I 100% agree with Rebecca, and I think a lot of growth that I've had both as a teacher and a modern classroom teacher comes from having open and honest conversations with students, because teachers aren't we're not experts. Like, we'll never be finished becoming better teachers. And a lot of what we can learn comes from what our students have to say to us and what their feedback is. And I've made so many adjustments over my first five years of teaching because of conversations that I've had with students. So I would say craving feedback, especially from your students, is so essential, and sometimes it's tough conversations, and sometimes you might feel like you have to inform students and sort of steer them in the right direction. But listening to sort of what your students need to say and asking them about it, it'll sort of really open up your eyes to what your classroom can be. Engaging with students and just really asking what they think and digging into their thoughts, especially when you're implementing a model like this, right. There's definitely going to be lots of chances for you to revise, to edit, how it's going, but we really can't do that without our students input and our students feedback. And so really embracing that. And in a way, our students are clients, right? So we want to make sure that their learning and teaching experience is the best that it can be. With just being able to work together to provide that. So it's not just the teacher being the gatekeeper of all of it, but really welcoming and inviting our students to be a part of the process as opposed to us just telling them what to do. And as far as creating a safe space, right, there's really not a guarantee that we can create that safe space just because we don't know where our students are coming from. But I think ultimately, again, having those conversations and inviting students to really try and figure out who they are as human beings and not just students, they will essentially feel brave. They will essentially feel safe with you, and then they'll be willing to learn and just do all the cool things in your classes. So I really like that piece of advice. That is something that we definitely need to ruminate on, something to reflect on, and something to just really internalize that, you know, what student feedback is really it's vital to this process of teaching and learning. And so what do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have for the remaining of the school year, for the summer, for the next school year? Anything, really. Paul, let's start with you. Sure. So I absolutely feel like Modern Classroom is helping me reach more students. I think before this, I don't even know that I could put a number on it, but I don't think I felt like I was meeting the needs of all the learners in my room. And I think Modern Classroom has expanded that. I feel more confident that I'm reaching the needs of all my students. So I think my goal is to keep expanding that reach. And part of that is going to involve helping students feel like Modern Classroom can work for them. Because I've had students this year say, mr. O, I like the lecture model better. I like seeing the teacher up at the front and engaging that way. That's what works for me. And that could be true. That could be what connects with that student best. So even though they might not be in a room that they feel like meets their needs, I want to help them find a way for Modern Costumes to get them there. And I can tinker with that. I can figure out what that actually looks like. So just continuing to expand my reach because every student needs something different. I love that. Rebecca, what about you? I think the one of the things I've been working on this year that I plan to work on next year is I also pull out small groups of four or less students to do things like guided readings or vocabulary activities or things like that, where I see needs from certain groups of students, two to four students, trying to give them that intervention or additional enrichment that they may need, depending on where their levels are working on more of those kinds of activities. I also plan on really making use of those check ins like you were saying, to get some of that student feedback and hopefully doing some anonymously so they can really tell me what they feel that I'm really hoping to get some good feedback by the end of the year from this group of students in their first language, possibly just to tell me what they really felt of experiencing this program, to kind of use that to input for next year so that they don't feel like this is going to impact anything this year. I've done two performance based projects while using Modern Classroom, so they've done all the steps of project with guided videos and working independently or with small groups. And I plan on incorporating more project based learning with Modern Classroom as well next year. I love all of that. I didn't even think about doing an anonymous feedback form. I've just always gotten my students to write their names down. So that's a great idea. I don't know why I never thought of that. All right, and so how can our listeners connect with you, Paul? So I'm on Twitter at Paul O'Donahue Underscore and I tweet about grading and Modern Classroom and the Celtics being in the playoffs. So if that's the type of content you're interested in, you can find me on Twitter. I also have a snack little cabinet that I keep in my room for hungry students. So if you're feeling generous and want to introduce my snack cabinet, you can also find me on Venmo at Polyd 33. So I'm going to pander to the audience a little bit. I love that. That's so great. And Rebecca, what about you? I actually don't have any social media at the moment, although I will be looking into it. I'll let you know if I get one. No, stay away, Rebecca, stay away. Well, with that being said, thank you so much Paul and Rebecca. I've really enjoyed learning from you both during this episode. So listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the Show Notes for this episode at podcast modernclassrooms.org 89. We'll have this episodes recapped and transcript uploaded to the Modern Classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there or check back in the Show Notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday. Voiceover: Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org, and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at Learn.Modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at modernclassproj, that's P-R-O-J. We are so appreciative of all you do for students and schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast.