Participant #1:
Welcome to the Modern Classrooms Project podcast. Each week, we bring you discussions with educators on how they use blended, self paced, and mastery based learning to better serve their students. We believe teachers learn best from each other, so this is our way of lifting up the voices of leaders and innovators in our community. This is the Modern Classrooms Project Podcast. 


Hello, and welcome to episode 125 of the Modern Classrooms Project. Podcast. My name is Toni Rose Deanon, she/they pronouns, a community engagement manager at MCP, and I am joined by a former coworker of mine, Melody Maitland, she/her pronouns, a middle school director of student services at Capitol City Public Charter School in Washington, DC. Welcome, Melody. Hi. It's so exciting to be in this space with you. And thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. So before we get started, what's bringing you joy lately? Definitely a lot of positive student interactions since coming back from break. It's always a challenging time, but the kids are just so funny and so lots of time with kids. That's my joy lately. And that's so nice to hear because lately as I talk to educators as well, they always say the students are bringing them joy, and that is just like music to my ears. And you and I were just talking, and I told you how much I miss the students. They're just so ridiculously hilarious, both inappropriately and appropriately, if that makes sense. But I miss that energy. They're just so hyped all the time and gosh, I miss it. Anyway, thank you for sharing. 


So, Melody, tell us more about who you are and how you got into special education. Yeah, so I am currently the director of student services, like you mentioned, at a charter school in DC. But I originally started my career as a social worker. A little Melody wanting to save the world. A little bit of my white woman savior in me as a young child, thinking that social work was the avenue to solve all the world's social ills. But I quickly realized that that was not the right fit for me as a human. So I transitioned into special education because there was some overlap, especially in the work I was doing with students. So I came to DC. I was a teacher, and then I transitioned into special education leadership after I was in a master's program on special ed and got to meet a lot of different people who were doing awesome things in the District and just got really lucky to have great opportunities. And so I've stayed in the special education world, and I hope to continue to stay in it, especially in the climb of crisis where we're just losing a lot of amazing educators inside schools and also just from the sector in general. Yeah. And Melody, I really do have to say that I really appreciate you naming the white woman savior complex because I think even being Filipino, I definitely had some of that savior complex as well when I got into education. So I appreciate you naming that. And something that I really want to let our listeners know is that Melody and I worked together for, I believe, three years, and hands down, Melody knows her stuff. Like, any kind of questions that I have about policy strategies, anything like Melody showed up, melody was able to come in and observe and just give me some really great takeaways to implement in my classroom right away. And that was why I was like, oh my gosh, I have to get Melody on here to talk about neuro divergence, actually, because the topic for this month is neuro divergence and supporting students of all backgrounds, of all capabilities, abilities, all of that good stuff. And so we really want to be able to just support all learners and not just some right. And so for our listeners who may not know what neuro divergence means, melody, how would you define it and who are all considered to be neuro divergence? Yeah, so neuro divergence is a term that we primarily use to refer to students with autism spectrum disorders, but it really does apply across different disabilities or differing abilities. But if we just look at the word and kind of break it down into chunks so neuro is a brain and divergent is different, so a brain that processes things differently from the quote unquote typical brain, whatever that is. But for me, it's really about understanding the differing strengths and challenges that each learner has and then programming accordingly for those needs. And so you just taught me something new because I didn't know that it was used primarily to refer to students with autism spectrum disorder. So this is really a learning curve for me. So thank you for teaching me. What are some common misconceptions about learners who are neuro divergence and how can we disrupt these misconceptions? So I think for me, the first is, as you probably noticed in my quote unquote typical, is that what is this notion of typical or quote unquote normal? We know that all students have a unique set of strengths and challenges. And for our kiddos, who we call neurodivergent herodive diagnose that way or in a lot of communities, especially the autism community, there's a lot of self identification as someone who is autistic or neurodivergent is a term that folks identify with. And I think for me this means that there's just more research for individuals that have this specific profile. And then when we look at the profile set, there is a vast amount of needs. But legally we do use this criteria to determine eligibility for specific services because money is attached. But I think the biggest misconception for me is that there's no typical or normal. We're all kind of individuals who deserve individualized instruction, especially in education context. And then I think the second big misconception is that students who have differing abilities cannot or will not achieve at high levels, which is like at grade level and above. And it's been my experience that when students are provided with the right supports based on their individualized needs, not generalized labels, students with differing abilities are some of the highest performing kiddos in the school. And if we focus primarily on the challenges associated with a student's narrow profile instead of the strengths, kids are not going to be able to perform at their full potential. So that's why we also have to take a strength based approach and be aware of challenges or needs that a student has so that we can support them, but also find what their superpowers are. Because there's a lot of strengths that I don't think we talk a lot about when it comes to students who have differing abilities. Yeah, I mean, indefinitely we get stuck we meaning like, educators get stuck with the labeling of being like, oh my gosh, because a student has this label, they must not be able to do blank or they must have limited blank. Right. Unfortunately, our biases come in. And so I really like the term that you used of having strength based approach of really going in there and knowing and believing that your students are capable of everything that you throw at them. It's just that they're going to require a lot more support and that's okay. There's like absolutely nothing wrong with extra scaffolding or chunking or support. Great. And so I have a question for you, just kind of a follow up question. You talked about eligibility. How is that process? Because I've only been in the general ed general education, and so how does that process work? Yeah. So eligibility for special education services or to determine if a student has a disability starts with a referral. It could come from a parent, which that's usually a big place where referrals come from. Like, I think my student might have ADHD or they're struggling with this and I want to see if there's something more going on that we just can't see. Or there's a history of dyslexia in my family, I think I'm seeing these characteristics. So it would come from someone, usually a parent, a staff could refer. I've had times where kids have referred, especially in a high school setting, which has been really amazing because kids know themselves the best and when they're included in all conversations about what they can do and where they want to go in life, that is where we get the biggest successes. So basically a referral comes in. An IEP team will do an analysis of existing data. So looking at what the specific areas of concern were, so say the family who I have concerns about dyslexia, will look at reading and writing data, where are they currently performing. A lot of times that data, unless there's like some outside evaluations, that the parent provides isn't going to tell us like, yes, this kid definitely has this disability. But what it does provide is a starting point for the conversation to then have a meeting with the team that includes the parent to go through the data and determine next steps. Sometimes those next steps will look like we don't really have enough information or there's an intervention that we want to try before we really go through this full formal evaluation process. But most of the time it ends with hey, we need additional information, more formal information in these areas. And then we have experts. So psychologists who do psycho educational reports or a speech pathologist will do a speech language evaluation where they're doing those norm reference one on one testing to really get a sense of what the kiddo's needs are. Then they reproduce a report and then we come back as IEP team. We look at that report. A lot of times a psychologist will have a recommendation or they may even diagnose using the DSM like this kid has episodic depressive disorder or something. I think I just made that up. I'm not even sure if that's a real thing. They'll give a diagnosis and then that will help us determine which idea disability criteria sheet we use, which sometimes that may be more than one and we just go through the criteria. Now, federal government has a set of criteria but usually states also add on or have very additional criteria to see if kids are eligible. But it's basically like do they have the characteristics of this disability and what is the educational impact. So if there is an adverse educational impact because of the disability, they'll qualify for an IEP, which provides them not just with accommodations and services like related services like counseling or speech, but it also provides them specially designed instruction around a set of goals. Usually those goals are in the areas of concern and things that are impeding them from fully accessing the general education curriculum and being able to progress. Now, sometimes diagnoses or disabilities are agreed upon by the team, but we're talking about a kid who's not having the impact in the classroom. So maybe they're performing at or above grade level. They don't really have any behavior referrals or any concerns from their teachers. They might just need accommodations or related services so they might qualify for a 504 plan. And then we also have some kids who we find out have disabilities and may not need any services at all. So that was a really long winded answer. So sorry about that. But yes, it is definitely a process and it has all these legal timelines and paperwork that you have to do, but it's comprehensive so that we don't misidentify kids because under identifying is just as. Not bad because I don't want to use that word, but worrisome as over identifying kids. When we give kids services that they don't need, we create learned helplessness, and that doesn't help them when they leave us, which our goal is for when they leave education, for them to be like, independent humans who are able to navigate our very complex world. That was a really good answer, Melody. All right, take a drink now because there's so much time. No, that was really great. And it's interesting because I've been in education for so long and I still have so many questions about special education. Right. And so thank you for teaching me again. And I didn't even know that kids could refer themselves as well, and that's a great way to really advocate for themselves if they know, like, hey, something's up. Like, I need this to I need someone to help me figure out what's going on. I didn't know that that was even possible. And I'm assuming that's for high school students. No, I mean, I recently had a middle schooler, they were reading Percy Jackson in their class and there was like a little section in the book about Percy having ADHD, and the kid was like, oh, my gosh, I experienced these things too. Maybe I have ADHD. And guess what? That kid did have ADHD, and it had not been diagnosed until the kid kind of brought it up from learning about this in his book. Anyone can really refer a kid. I think that there are still a lot of issues around. I guess the best term is, like, ageism about adults not really seeing the value in kids voice or really listening and listening specifically for their expertise on themselves. And so maybe some schools might not do that, but yes, they can definitely refer themselves and we can initiate that process. And I do like that there is that flexibility to do that. Yes. And it's again, interesting that you mentioned ageism too, right, as far as, like, adults not really listening to students or just not really having the same weight right, when it comes from someone who's younger. And so I really appreciated you naming that. And it's actually interesting too, because recently I had been diagnosed with ADHD and I was like, wait a minute, what what does that even mean? And so I'm still kind of coping with that as an adult. And I think, again, like, there's there's a population, an adult population out there who's getting diagnosed at a later age, right, and, like, trying to figure out, like, oh, how do I navigate now that I know that this is what was happening, but I wasn't even aware that this was happening. It's wild. It is. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, it's really important that people are sharing that we all have different things going on because the more we talk about it, the less stigmatizing it becomes. And I think that's also the biggest battle I fight with families is like, they're like, I don't want my child to know that they have a learning disability. And I'm like, yeah, well that's not going to happen because they definitely need to know it's information about themselves. And also the more you don't talk about it, your fear of it being of them getting their feelings hurt is actually just going to come true more because now you stigmatize things that's totally normal. Like, we all have different ways of learning and so knowing yours is helpful in life, so I really appreciate you sharing that. I mean, it's definitely a struggle. Melody, I come from a culture where we don't talk about that kind of stuff, right? And so for me, it's like, oh, but this is just who I am. And so I'm still definitely struggling with it and just trying to navigate all of that because it's just so new to me and the more research I do, the more I'm like, wow, okay, this is new, this is interesting. And you're right, the more I talk to my family about it, the more I talk to my friends about it, it's becoming less stigmatized and it's just been such an interesting journey. So I'm really glad that you kind of brought that up for me as well. We often get comments that learners at IEPs aren't capable of having a learning environment that is blended, self paced, and mastery based. Right? And again, like you were saying, there's just a lot of misconceptions here, and so what would your response be to those comments? Well, I actually think blended, self paced and mastery based learning environment is best and most ideal for all learners, especially our kids that have five hundred and four S and IEPs. And I think much of the concern is less around students and more about misconceptions or sometimes we've seen poor examples of blended learning experiences, but I think when done right, all students can thrive. Like any pedagogical technique or experience that we're providing, you have to have high quality training. It's required so that we have high quality implementation. And then also, it's not a one time thing. Like we're constantly getting new research and we need coaching and we need an additional eye that's like, okay, here's where I might tweak this so that more learners can access. I think actually this is the best way that we can teach our kiddos with 504 and IPS to truly make it individualized to their learning needs. And it's funny, I'm going to go ahead and plug it into that. Modern classroom does provide that ongoing coaching and support. And so if you're a listener just starting to listen and not really know about modern classroom, we really do provide that support. We try to pair you up with a mentor who is currently teaching and so you can have those conversations because again, like you said, Melody, poor examples, right? That really does impact and hurt someone's beliefs or confirmed their beliefs that something like this cannot possibly happen, or it can't be possible for students who have IEPs and think it's just really interesting, too, that, you know, typically when I talk to teachers or educators who have never implemented something like this before, it's I think it's not even the misconception. I think it's just a fear also, right, of, like, trying something new and then being so overwhelmed because they're having to do so many different things that they can't even have the energy or the time to try and figure out how to make their teaching and learning practices a little bit different than what it was before. Right? And so I had a lot of students with IEPs and 504s in my classroom, and yes, they needed a lot more scaffolding, and there were some even who needed a lot of handholding in the beginning or even up until March of the school year, but then at the end, they understood what kind of learner they were. They were able to advocate for what they needed, and they could tell me exactly what they needed, which I thought was something that I didn't have before. And so I really loved that my students were able to just start wherever they needed to start. They could come in however they needed to come in with all of the baggage that they were bringing in and then just providing that space to just, like, sit still, really, like, evaluate, how am I going to use my time today? How can I name my emotions and move forward and be successful? And then also, how can I ask for help from not only my teacher but also my peers? And so I really appreciated you saying this too, that it's really less around the students and more around the misconceptions about what this could look like. Right? And of course, there's like, plenty of poor examples out there, and that's okay, especially if you're just starting out, right? If you're just starting out, it could be poor and then you just continue to get better. Well, and I agree. And having been in your classroom, pre modern classrooms and after, just like, how empowered kids felt and could explain what they needed. And then also just the change. Having been in a lot of classrooms pre and post, when teachers are doing Modern Classrooms Project, teachers just feel like not just more confident, but I feel the vibe of calmer. And it's not like Whack a Mole teaching where you're like, having to make all these decisions on the spot and there's like, this behavior thing because you're trying to do one form of instruction with a big group of kids who have different needs. So I always find that the culture and climate of classrooms where Modern Classrooms Project is happening is just so nice. And that's not to say other, but I have got to see different classrooms and a visible difference in educators who are implementing and implementing with fidelity and taking in all that feedback and getting better at it. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I've also had a couple of conversations with educators who are special educators, right? And they were like, you know what? This is the first time where parents and all stakeholders involved in that student's learning, they were just so excited because they knew exactly what we were learning in class. They could sit with their student and learn alongside with them and also just understanding what the goals are of that student and achieving those goals. And so now teachers have this game plan of being more intentional with the teacher time that they have in the classroom so that they can work with those students who need more time, who need more support. And sometimes it's the students who have IEPs in five or four. Sometimes those are students that don't even need extra support. They're just like, oh no, we got it. And then they like shine and they lead and they become the the student teachers in that classroom. And I just I really love seeing that confidence build up again because I think time and time again in their school journey, right? Like, they were put this label and there were a lot of misconceptions and assumptions about their abilities and they weren't provided that space to shine and thrive. I couldn't agree more. So I've also been exposed to saying that one thing can't really be designed for every single person in mind, right? And so how can we ensure that this blended learning, self paced and mastery based learning is accessible by all learners? Yeah, I've heard this a lot too. And I think we traditionally design instruction around what's considered average when more and more research is showing that there is no average. So when we take that traditional approach, we're really planning, designing instruction for no one because there's no teaching to the middle. So I think that the base assumption is what we have to start with. For me, there's no other way than to design for every single person in mine, especially in this post. I know we're still kind of in pandemic, but like this post pandemic learning environment, there's even more diversity in our learners as a result of these different learning environments that they have experienced, that all kids have experienced across the country. Because a lot of what they were learning was outside of our control. Obviously, we were providing input and most of our teachers didn't have a lot of instruction on how to do virtual instructions. So I really do think, especially in this day and age, that if we're not designing with every learner in mind, how will we support the targeted and needed growth of all of our learners? It has to be designed for every single person in mind. Like, there's no other way, in my opinion. Oh, my gosh. Melody, literally when you said research is showing that there is no average and there's no teaching to the middle. Right. And I never even considered that perspective, but I think that that's what we've been doing. And so it is that time. I mean, we're tired. Everyone's tired, right? We're tired. And it's also the best time to start innovating and changing things up, mixing things up, because clearly we realize that when the pandemic hit, what we were doing before was not going to work. Yes. Okay, well, so okay, this is great and all, but I'm sure listeners are going to wonder what are some actionable steps that educators often forget to implement in their classrooms to better serve all learners? Yeah, this is a great question. For me, the biggest thing, and I've kind of already alluded to this, is that we forget as educators about how powerful student voice is. And we know kids are experts on themselves, they have a wealth of knowledge, but it often goes untapped by us educators. And I think when we fully integrate our students into their learning, they take more ownership, they're better equipped to navigate the world beyond us. And ultimately, at least my goal in education is to build self advocates. And that starts in my classroom or in my school. Because school is the place where students spend a majority of their time, especially the K through twelve when they're most prime years. And oftentimes we try interventions or to design supports that are ineffective because we never ask the recipient, which is our student, what their thoughts and opinions are. And so for me, talk to your students. Don't hide the ball. Let them into the learning process. It doesn't have to be a teacher student monologue here. It's like we need the collaboration with students so that's my most actionable step is talk to your students about the learning, not just getting to know them, but like what we're doing in class and what their previous knowledge is and integrate their voice into everything that we do in the classroom. Yes. I love that so much. I've said it time and time again. Some of the best ideas I have were for my students. Yeah, they're so great. Like something that I thought would be so amazing, they're like, no, that's actually trash. And then they come up with something even better and I'm like, yo, I didn't have to waste any of this time planning. I should have just asked you all. I totally agree with that. And I really also, again appreciate you naming the fact that sometimes we try to go in there fixing something and we never actually asked that community, we never actually asked that student or the recipient who's going to be impacted by all of it. Right? And so of course things are going to turn out to be ineffective because we're trying to solve the problems that we're just assuming that there are problems. We're doing two people instead of with people, or we're doing four people instead of with them. And as we know, not even just students, but other communities, that just doesn't work. Oh, my gosh, I love that. Okay, prepositions. I'm working on my prepositions. And I really like that quick lesson that you had there, Melody. We're doing it to people instead of with, and that's not what we want to do, right? Okay, so, listeners, we're going to take a quick break for an announcement, and when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about Neuro Divergence and supporting all learners. Hey, listeners, it's Tony Rose here with some announcements and reminders. If you and or your teacher bestie are interested in the Virtual Mentorship Program, we do have scholarships available. Make sure to check out modern classrooms.org. Scholarships. We have regional scholarships available for educators in Baltimore City, New York City, DC, chicago, Tulsa County, and the Twin Cities that include full tuition, a year of implementation support, and a $500 stipend for finishing the program. We are continuing our scholarship across the state of Indiana, which includes implementation support and 30 PGPs. Any educator in the state can enroll right now@modernclassrooms.org. Indiana. We also have partnerships with districts across the country who are paying for educators to go through our training. As for professional learning, make sure to check out our webinars page on modernclassrooms.org webinars and to connect with our community. Join our Twitter chat on the first Wednesday of the month and our virtual meetup on the second Wednesday of the month, and we hope to connect with you outside of our podcast. All right, and now we're back with Melody. Okay, Melody. So I've never served learners who are hearing or visually impaired, but I do have friends who are deaf or hard of hearing. So when I hung out with my friends for the first time, I quickly realized so many privileges and accessibility that I had, and it gave me a different perspective. So do you have any experiences or strategies on how to better serve this community and school settings? Yeah, I mean, your experience is pretty common as a low incidence disability. Most folks haven't gotten the opportunity to serve learners who are hearing or visually impaired, myself included. The first thing is that there's a lot of specialized instruction needed, because, as you point out, accessibility is more of a challenge and unfortunately, an afterthought for this group of humans. That being said, for any learner, I always start with individual, like, what are their strengths, challenges, needs, and develop plans accordingly as well as instruction. And the biggest thing I think about is universal design for learning practices, because those are really critical for all individuals, especially anyone who has any physical needs or differences or challenges, because all of our environments are not built typically with these individuals in mind. But we know from why UDL was established, which started more. So the philosophy with architecture right. And how has integrated into education. We know that if we start with those who may experience the most challenges and. We create environments that are conducive for those individuals. It's actually conducive to everyone. So really thinking less about the label or like, what is this specific difficulty or disability that this person has? And just like, what does this person need? What are their strengths that they're bringing? What are the challenges? And then what are the best supports? Because even you could have two people who have the same quote unquote disability or diagnosis, but required completely different things. Which is why, again, talking to individuals and learning about what they need is the answer for me. And I know it sounds really like, okay, Melody, I'm just going to talk to all my students and everything's going to be solved. Yeah, I know it sounds kind of wishy washy, but I do really believe in that. I will never put something in a kid's IEP. Or provide a service that I have not talked to that kid about and gotten their feedback on, because if they don't buy into it, it's not going to work, it's not going to be effective. So with any person, no matter what the challenge or diagnosis is, we really just have to start with them as a human, as a learner, as a person. Thank you for calling me in on just differentiating when really we're all just individuals with different needs, right? And so I really appreciate the call in and I know that I'm going to continue moving forward with that mindset. And you're absolutely correct, right? It is all about individual needs and not necessarily a group of people, right? Like, yes, there's a group of people, but it doesn't mean that every single person in that group needs the same thing. And so I really appreciate that perspective and thank you again for teaching me and the UDL practices universal Design for learning. I find that to be really fascinating that it did start out with architecture and now it's like trickling into education and we're talking a lot more about it. And so I feel like teachers have always heard of this term, but I think it's difficult to implement if they have no training or if there's no guidance or support and how exactly to create this space for students, right? And so we definitely need to look more into that and just provide more guidance for UDL practices. And so when we think about individuals, and I think this is something too, when I start thinking about as an abled body individual, right, I often don't think about all of my privileges, what kind of communities am I lacking knowledge about and what can I do to be even more inclusive? And so I think it just brought in a lot of awareness for me. And then I'm like, oh, I've actually never interacted with this community before. Let me go find out more about that community. And I definitely push our listeners to do that as well, to just kind of sit back and reflect on all of our privileges, all of who we are as people, and then finding people who are different than us. Right, I completely agree, and I oftentimes think about my able bodiness just because that's something that I work with every day. But I'm definitely working on what I talked about, the white woman savior complex, because if I am not continually questioning that and how it's showing up in the work I do with kids and families and staff members, I'm just further creating more harm and inequity. And that goes back to the prepositions, right? That's why they matter so much to me. Because if I think I'm doing four or two a group of people, I am just imposing things that are completely inappropriate and are recreating and reinforcing systems of oppression that are continuing to result in these inequitable outcomes that we see in our schools across, I say nation, but it's probably across the world if we really think about it. Yeah, definitely. Even you said too, right? Accessibility is an afterthought, and I'm really for myself pushing to think about accessibility a lot more before I plan out a whole thing. I'm like, okay, how do I make this accessible for all? And not one of those things where I'm going to plan first and then go back and figure out how to make it accessible. But that's also a really hard practice because that was not what I did before. And so just, I think being vulnerable and being honest with yourself and being like, oh, wow, that was a really quote unquote awful thing to do. But now I know better, so I'm going to do better, right? Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh, what a humbling conversation this is, Melody.


Participant #1:
So I really appreciate this conversation because this is what the process is all about. And this is why I think Modern Classrooms Project especially has so much wraparound support for teachers, is because it's through these conversations, dialogue and reflection that we become better educators. Of course we add tools to our tool belt and we get better at those concrete skills. But also it's really about this piece, and I think this a lot of times is not included in how we are supporting our teachers. So I really do appreciate this conversation because it's helping me to think about a lot of things about myself as an educator as well. Yeah, I'm sweating, Melody. I'm just sitting in this discomfort of like, oh my gosh, I still have so much to learn, I still have so much vocabulary to shift. Right now I'm thinking about the prepositions that you had shared doing it to people rather than with people, and now I'm thinking too. It's like when you do things to people, you're actually just serving yourself. So it may seem like you're serving others, but it's honestly you just serving yourself so that you can feel good, but it doesn't necessarily have a positive impact on that community that you think you're serving. And so that's also something to keep in mind too, of like, are we doing this to our community? Are we doing this with our community? And I think those are great questions to start off, especially when planning, especially when having conversations, especially when we think that there's something that needs to be fixed and that we need to fix it. Right? Right. All right, give me a moment here. On that note, how can we be better advocates for our learners with learning disabilities or differences? And how can we better support our families and caregivers? Yeah, I think you're going to be like, melodies sound like a broken record, but I mean, I think the best you can do is empower that inner advocate that all of us have, including our students. When we advocate with our students, we do far more than when we do it for them or to them, especially considering that many educators do share the identity I have as a white woman in an urban settings like the school that I'm at, that is not the primary population that served. So if I am just enacting what I feel like is right and imposing that on kids, I'm just causing more harm. I think the same is true for families. Most times what I've seen is like, a parent has to be a participant on the IEP team, so they're invited, they come to this meeting once a year, but they're not really meaningful participants of that child's school team. It's kind of just like a checklist item, I feel like, a lot of times. So in order to better support our caregivers, we have to have regular communication. We need to be asking for their feedback, insight, advice, having crossover between strategies we're using at school and home so that there's continuity. And sometimes that could look like educating and supporting families with what is the research, what is evidence based practices when a student has this particular need and just actually being real partners in the learning and support of students? Not kind of these surface level relationships that I know. And I've been guilty of this, and I just need to get them in for this. And then I don't think about, okay, how am I going to keep them involved in this plan in support of our shared students? Because the parent is the first teacher of a kid, and if I'm not including them meaningfully and leveraging their expertise on their own child, again, we are going to be doing things to kids or for them that are just not supportive. Yeah. And I also want to name the fact that parents and caregivers put a lot of trust in school systems for their kids to be supported. Right. And sometimes I know a lot of the times, maybe it's just like society, but it's really difficult to ask for help. So if there's a parent or a caregiver maybe they just don't know how to ask for help. And so I like the piece that you're talking about with educating them with research, with tips and tricks on how to better serve their students and also just like, welcoming them in the conversation and not just talking at them. Because I think that's what we've been doing in education, right? We've been talking at students, we've been talking at families and caregivers. It's really nice to just, again, like you said, consider their strengths and also just considering their expertise and just providing that partnership and not just a checklist. So I think at this moment, I would really push for just people to slow down a bit, right. And really taking a step back and reflecting on like, okay, we have this meeting with this parent, and instead of having thoughts like, oh, well, this parent is not going to show up. Or this parent is not going to the parent is just here. Just to be here. But they don't actually care. Instead, like, approaching the situation with curiosity and just lots of empathy, I think is how we want to kind of culminate and create that relationship with stakeholders. Because like you said, parents and caregivers, they're first teachers for those students and for all students honestly. And so we really want to create that space for our caregivers and our families to show up as they are and also ask all of the questions without feeling judged or reprimanded. That really resonated with me. Like, I have heard educators say or make assumptions about families that they have no idea what the family may be going through, what the barriers are. So I think also as educators, in a role that I play as a leader and maybe not someone who's in the classroom every day, it's really disrupt those harmful statements that create narratives and mindsets that are really unfair and hard to come back from. I mean, once there's like a negative narrative about a student or their family, then that's the starting point for new educators who get that kid. And it doesn't support anyone. So I'm constantly vigilant for kind of these statements that people think, don't I'm just saying this thing, or like, this is my opinion, or I'm just frustrated about it. But language is powerful, so we have to really think about how we're talking about caregivers or else that's another piece. We won't be able to have meaningful partnerships if we don't. I don't like saying assume the best because there's a lot of stuff wrapped up in that. But for this concept, just really knowing that every parent or caregiver wants their child to be successful, they want to be engaged and that there are barriers sometimes to engagement, it's about figuring out what those barriers are so that we can bring them in in a meaningful way. Yeah, because I always say it's so easy to blame people instead of actually trying to figure out what those barriers are. And that's something I'm also working on. It's so easy to blame people, but in all honesty, it's like, now let's take a step back and see what is creating this friction, what's the tension here? And what can we do to ensure that everyone feels successful and supported? Okay, so if you had a magic wand, gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have a magic wand to fix anything in education? I have a lot. What would it be? Well, this is really easy for me. I think if I had a magic wand, we would just not label students or anyone really. We would just identify what that student's unique profile is, design instruction to meet their specific individualized needs, and we wouldn't have these like, arbitrary and socially constructed practices, like grade levels or like you're in a class and you're only interacting with a select group of students for the majority of your day. I feel like a lot of these practices are so old school and traditional and our students, especially with technology and what they have access to and exposure to, we need to recreate our learning environments to meet like, the 21st century. Because right now we're trying to do a lot of traditional things, kind of like, what is that phrase? Like, trying to fit a square peg in a round hole right through this and not label them, but just figure out what does everyone need and how can we create environments that are conducive to that. And I think Modern Classrooms Project is one of the most more innovative in the sense of like I think that that is one of the purposes is to address this major gap that we're seeing between what our society needs and where we're at as a country and civilization even, and trying to get our educational and instructional practices to meet the place that we are currently. Because there's a lot of huge ways to go in that regard. Yeah, something that really resonated with me is you saying, like, only interacting with a select group of students for a majority of the day each year and that gosh, now I'm reflecting back on my practices. Did I do that? But that's kind of what we were trained to do, you know what I'm saying? But it would be really nice to be a lot more intentional and meaningful with those groupings that we have in our classrooms. And so thank you for pointing that out. And this whole on grade level, below grade level, like above grade level, I'm just like I don't know what that means. It's going to keep it moving. It's wild. Melody. I was in education for ten years, and it's not just like a select group, like a group within the classroom. Right. It's just like how education has been designed, especially in the early levels. Like, you're in the same class all day and with technology, we just have so much more access. Like why would our kids only be interacting with their homogeneous, a lot of times homogenous groups that are in their community instead of being able to talk to kids in other countries and figuring out how we're all learning this math concept. Like what are different ways that we're learning across the world and just really building those bridges? Because we can do that. We have the technology to do it, so why aren't we leveraging it? I'll open up my toolbox now. No, I see what you're saying, and that's such a good point. That is such a good point, because there are still schools that track their students, right? And so because they're tracked, they just stay with those same group of kids forever and then it's like their future has already been set for them because this is the track that they're on. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. Melody, thank you. That needed to be said. Okay, so what do you hope to see in the future and what goals do you have in education? So I think I've talked a little bit about this or maybe before we got on the call, but I started recording is that education really isn't such a state of crisis right now. We're just losing a lot of educators. There seems to be a lot of opinions about our profession. And so my goal long term is figuring out ways within my locus of control, my utilizing my privilege, how I can support with developing systems that value, honor and respect what our educators do every day, especially our class based educators, so that we'll have more individuals staying in our sector, especially within the school setting. I know that's lofty, but that's what I would love for the future. I really like that. You also just reiterated the fact that it's within your control, right. And focusing on what you can do in your circle, what you can do in your community, what you can do with your privilege. And so I really like that, that you named that. I definitely am seeing so many amazing educators leaving the schools, right. Just because they're tired, they're burnt out, they're mentally exhausted, and so it's exhausting to think about. And then of course, everyone has a say about what teachers should and should not be doing, which is wild to me, but no, that's a really great goal. And you know what, when you are close to achieving that goal, Melody, let me know how it goes because I would love to know what your progress is like if you could really figure that out. I'd get a Nobel Peace Prize or something because this is a very lucky call. You would, and that would also be really cool. Okay, well, how can our listeners connect with you? I really love collaborating, being a thought partner, reflecting, learning new things. So anyone can email me my school addresses, my first name and last name: Melodymaitland@ccpcs.org or if you don't want to have all this tracked in some school based email, you can definitely use my personal email address, which is melodymaitland@gmail.com. So you could send me an email if you want to connect further. And I'm really appreciative to gotten the opportunity to have this conversation. Yeah, I mean, you have so much more to offer, Melody, but thank you so much for just, again, just being here with me and really helping me reflect through just past practices and just lots of awareness here. So it's, it's really, really nice to share this space with you. And so listeners, remember, you can always email us at podcast@modernclassrooms.org and you can find the show notes for this episode at podcast.modernclassrooms.org/125. We'll have this episode's recap and transcript uploaded to the Modern Classrooms blog on Friday, so be sure to check there. Check back in the show notes for this episode if you'd like to access those. Thank you all so much for listening. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday.


Participant #1:
Thank you so much for listening. You can find links to topics and tools we discussed in our show notes for this episode. And remember, you can learn more about our work at www.modernclassrooms.org and you can learn the essentials of our model through our free course at learn.modernclassrooms.org. You can follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @modernclassproj. We are so appreciative of all you do for students in schools. Have a great week and we'll be back next Sunday with another episode of the Modern Classrooms Project podcast.