Loretta Gandy BMB Chp 6 pt 1 and 1 other
===

[00:00:00] We want to welcome to our podcast today, Ms. Loretta Gandy. Ms. Gandy is the retired administrative assistant to the president and she had 40 years with Utica. So she's got a real serious commitment to and connection to the institution.

So I know she's going to be sharing a lot with us today about chapter six. We are still in black man's burden. We are now on chapter six and in this chapter we're going to see how, Holtzclaw dealt with outside influences. So, Ms. Gandy, can you share what you got from the book? 

Okay. When you asked the question to talk about the relevance as it relates to today.

Yes. You know, after reading Chapter 6, I just was reminded of the timeless aspects and the commonality of the human experience. Mr. Holtzclaw was, he was able to bring people [00:01:00] together. In the midst of all the extreme conditions. Mm hmm. And, I mean, he 

went through something. He really did. He 

did. There was religious diversity and human frailty and, and out of all of that, he was able to accomplish his vision and build a school for the Negros in the rural southern Hinds County in Utica, Mississippi.

Huh. That's right. He found a lot of creative ways to to overcome and to conquer every obstacle that he went through. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Again, he went through some things. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. And I, I saw where his insights just were amazingly inspiring to me. You know? 'cause he didn't give up. No. Despite the overwhelming challenges that he went through, he found a lot of different ways around the lack of, where he 

had the problem with funding.

Mm-Hmm. land and, and building materials. He just, he found ways to Mm-Hmm. To make it happen. Mm-Hmm. . And then the community began to rally behind his efforts. [00:02:00] And I thought that was really great with the, the support of even the local Baptist member Oh, minister. He had a change of heart, so and, 

you know, and that was, that was so interesting to me too.

And I know I'm interrupting, I'm so sorry. But when Holtzclaw had to juggle. How each denomination, the Baptists, the Methodists, those spot and wrinkle people how they reacted to him with the school because he didn't want to seem like he was doing a Baptist school or a Methodist school and I can't imagine trying to juggle that and still appease everybody.

So tell me, did you, did you have anything to say about that minister that? Well, 

I, I just wanted to say that that minister realized that Mr. Holtzclaw was not a humbug as he first thought. That's right. And he realized that Mr. Ho Claude's intentions were in the best interest of all the people in the community.

Huh. That's true. And that was to build that school to, so that [00:03:00] he could educate the Negroes. Huh. He just, again, had a vision that was extraordinary. Yeah. 

Huh. So when I got tickled at a couple of places in this chapter, the one was when The spot and Wrinkle folks, he was telling the, the tale about when you had to join them, you had to get up and confess your sins.

And that before he got there, there was this woman that got up and confessed her sins. And she was going so good, the minister said, go on, keep on going. Then she got to him. She was about to stop, but he wanted her to keep going. Yeah, she was about to stop. And he said, keep it going, keep it going. And then when she got around to him.

Oh, he didn't want to hear anymore. You know, set her down, she crazy. Yeah, take her, get her out of here. 

That was something else. And then another thing is when that minister came to apologize, he wouldn't even come on the grounds because he felt a little guilty about what he had been doing.

But, he then called the men to come meet him, Dr. Holcock, to come [00:04:00] meet him. Out by the road, I guess. It was funny when they were praying, then Somebody passed by, went back and had to tell the people and told the people he had them down on his knees. 

He had them down on his knees. 

Then they say praying or something.

That's right. He didn't really know what he was doing but that's what he went back and told them.

And then folks had to come see. They came to see what was going on. What was really going on. But like you said, that man who had been like one of his biggest opponents down, begged his pardon. Got on his knees and prayed with him, and then became his biggest supporter.

He was 

the biggest supporter. I thought that was really awesome. Wasn't that? Won't God do it? No! 

I would have said, won't 

he do it? Won't he do it? Yeah, that was awesome. 

But that, that and when they were looking for a treasurer. 

Oh, my. Mr. Gary. Yeah, 

and it ended up, [00:05:00] to me it was interesting, it was 75 cents, just 75 cents, it wasn't like it was 75 dollars, and they didn't want to, you know, did he need it, no he wasn't worth having it, well, then this is what got me, they weren't satisfied until they got a white man to hold me.

Right, right, and they were okay with that.

Yeah. And I was like, really? 

Yeah. But it's 75 cents we're talking here, you 

know. And you didn't want the man to leave with 

your 75 cents? Right. But I guess that was a lot of money. 

It was a good little bit, but still. Yeah. If you can't trust the folks you're around in that church with, you would rather entrust Here you go.

Entrust this man. Now, granted, he was over the bank. Yeah, yeah. But, that just got away with me so bad. I thought y'all wasn't happy until the white man came in he 

didn't really want to do it, but you know, for 75 cents. Right. Yeah, but he did it anyway. Yeah, 

that, oh, when Holtzclaw had to tell the [00:06:00] folks that, You know, he had the lumber.

They finally got the lumber. Oh, 

my. Wasn't that something? They want to know why you stored it over here. 

Right. At Baptist Church. Baptist Church, you know what it's for. Yeah, the school. And he had to work and tell them that no, no, no. Yeah. This is where they would let me put it. Oh. 

Then, I mean, common sense.

That's where they let me put it. That's where we're putting it. You can store it. Right. But, yeah. People had a lot of issues. Just gave him all kinds of trouble. 

But, you know, but he persevered and then what they say towards the end of the chapter about what made up the people who supported it, you had to have northern whites.

Yeah. You had to have southern Negroes and southern whites. And then he listed all those folks that were his supporters. And I was like, you know, 

and then he wanted to make sure he didn't leave out some of the people who, when he got there, that helped him out. So that was awesome. And then [00:07:00] Dan Griffin, that name was just stuck with me, Dan Griffin, because I'm like, Oh my God, I remember the, the son, Dan Griffin.

He used to drive the trucks around and but I remember that I did go to the Dan Griffin's house, right there off of 27th, at the end of 27th Highway, Cayuga Road and 27th I visited their house and I remember their mom, you know, but the man is Dan Griffin's wife, 

you know. The man from the book has a direct connection to you because you remember the son.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 

Yeah. Look at that. And then his his wife. Dan Griffin. Yeah. His wife worked at the bank. No, the son. Not the one in this book, but wife worked at the bank in Utica at one time. Huh. Mm hmm. Yeah. Look at that. Mm 

hmm. So it, what, that tells me that we're not as far removed from the story.

Right. I saw some names in here that were just, like, oh my [00:08:00] goodness. They talked about the Dan Griffin and how he was a character, you know, and his, before he became, right, well, he came to the church anyway, and I was like, oh my goodness. I can see that. Yeah. Well, 

You know, we talked about what Holtzclaw went through.

But, you know, we're in the school and the institution is in a state of transition now. And we have newer people coming in that don't know the story. And part of what we try to do with this that we're doing with you and others and what we're trying to do with the museum is instill that story and that sense of community.

Because when new people come Miss Loretta, we try to tell them, you How it was when we first got there, you know, and how it was just, it was like the campus was its own [00:09:00] neighborhood or town and how everybody, you know, worked together, you saw them every day, you saw them after work, you saw them at the games or in whatever, there is none of that now.

And there really felt like, at that time, a family connection, you know. But. Yeah, as the years went by, it just kind of went away.

Well, as people left. 

As people left, yeah, and new people came in who had absolutely no idea. But I truly wished I had read this book. I'm asking myself, why didn't I read this book?

Before now. Right. When I was in school 

here, why didn't I read it and when I was working here, what kept me from picking this book up? Because there is some really treasure in this book. It's really interesting. Yeah. I really don't even know why I never read it. 

You know, I had talked to, and I talked to students when they come into the humanities class.

It's not an easy book to read at first. Well, it's not. That's one thing. You [00:10:00] know, you started and my thing was It's not making logical sense to me. You know, you're jumping from here and there and here and there, and then I put it down the first time. I'm like, I don't have to. The second time I tried it, I read the introduction, or its preface, and he says it's a collection of his speeches.

And once I thought about that, I was like, well, okay, I can see why it's not making sense now. He's speaking, you know, when you do speeches and presentations, you cater them for your audience. So, this first chapter was catered for one audience, and the second chapter was catered for an audience. So you might have a little bit of conflict in what you're saying.

Oh yeah. I said, okay, well then let me get past that. Right. Once I got past that and got caught up in What he was going through, his life beforehand, his life at Tuskegee, and then what he had to go through when he got here. I was like, you [00:11:00] know, that's not really that different from what we had in the struggle.

But now we ain't never gonna have enough money to run it. We're always gonna have opposition from folks in the community who are naysayers until they see you produce. Right, right. We're always gonna have some opposition. from outside influences because they don't understand what the vision and the mission really is for A, a community college, and B, a community college catered to Black students.

And how do you get folks to see that you're not saying they're less than and you're more than, but that you have a common goal to uplift everybody. Right, right. But it's hard when folks can't see past what they see as your, your surface, right? So, I got as [00:12:00] I read through the book and especially as I was reading it aloud some of that just started coming, I'm like, you know, he really He had to persevere really, really hard, and his wife had to be there for him.

Yeah. You know, cause she had to run it without him. 

She did. She even had him for her, no, his mother had him when the father was gone, and I was like does that mean that she had to deliver that baby herself? And he took that cord? 

Surely there was a midwife. Because he said that he would, that they were alone.

He sure did. 

It was just mother and me. That's right. So she never mentioned that there was another person 

sure left something out, but he said no was just me and mother. Huh alone. He said alone. He sure did. Oh That's a horrible thought. Yeah 

Yeah, 

if she was alone she had to do all that herself Yeah.

After birth? Every time? Yeah. Oh. [00:13:00] That's just, you know, I, I, I. Yeah. I just can't even 

imagine. Oh, and then the time when he, well, I'm not supposed to be going into other people's chapters, but the time that he got that horrible whipping. 

Yes, from the teacher. From the teacher. That beat him so he couldn't even make it home.

He 

couldn't make it home at the Senate. Well, I don't know. He was there. But he had to. Huh. Yeah. Beat him that bad. Yeah. Teachers do that. I mean, 

did that Yeah. Well that one did. Evidently because he had, as, as what the children say, he was feeling some kind of way, some type of way. Mm mm-Hmm. and just beat him.

And then when his father had to come find him. 

Yeah. 

Bring him home. Bring him home. We wanted to get him. Mm-Hmm. Father wanted to get him, but the mother said no. 

The mother said no. He had to go through some, and what I was talking to the students about was, when he was a student at Tuskegee, I said, guess how long it took him to get through school?[00:14:00] 

And students were like, well, two years, three years, I said, it took eight years. Cause 

stuff happens at home. He got sick. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And then his sister died. His daddy died. Daddy died. He had to go home and help out. Yeah. 

And then the sister wanted to go to school and he had to work for that and then the brother wanted to go to school.

So he had to help them out when they were there. 

So that's no different from folks now. You know, you have family issues and personal health issues and so. The fact that he, he kept going, kept going, 

kept going. He didn't even have clothes, decent clothes to wear. Oh, when he was talking about 

trying to patch his clothes up.

Yeah. 

And the material was so thin, there was no hope for that. There was no hope for it. Oh, Lord. That was something. Yeah, that really was. 

You know, every excuse was provided for him to give up. Yeah. Everything fell in his way, you know. [00:15:00] Exactly. Give up, let it go. And he did. He did not. He 

refused to give up.

you know, especially when you hit opposition. Folks are just, you know, in your face like this preacher was. Oh yeah. And he just rolled right 

off. It was just so many things. Hey, growing up as a little boy, that was horrible, too. That his mother was working for the white folk.

And sometimes they wouldn't even have food at home. Go to bed 

without eating. And sometimes 

late over in the night, she'd bring a pot of Juice? Yeah, a pot 

to 

cook her. And they were able to partake of that. And the fact that he said sometimes they put their head in there. 

I know, you know, them and the dog.

And the pig. That's right, and the pig. And the dog taking 

the pie crust. 

I'm like, y'all gonna fight the dog for the pie crust. 

And they got stretched up for that. There was some things that were 

just, oh my. It was some stuff going on. [00:16:00] And the when he, when he got here. I, I think prior to him getting 

here, Oh my God.

Over in the Sunflower County. What did Oh, Delta. Yes. Oh goodness. That 

was awful. 

Remember did he get attacked by an animal or something? I can't remember. 

I don't think so. 

But he came through bushes, bushes. Yeah. Yeah. And the, what do you call it? Swamps or the marshes. 

Cane break the But this is how I tell students.

There was no paved road. 

Right, that's what I was thinking. No paved. There was nothing. No road. This is the road you take. You're just walking through. 

He fell in that well, remember?

couldn't get out. Trying to get some water. And 

the man wasn't sure he wasn't going to get him out. But he did get him out.

And then he had some crazy statement did. And so he had a lot to say. 

Oh my, I tell you. 

The man went through all of this. And for 40 years, [00:17:00] ran this school up until his death. Yeah. But Miss Ganda, I want to thank you so much for coming in and talking today about this. I want you to know that I appreciate it. 

I just wanted to say that I thought this was an excellent example of what we can accomplish when like minded people join forces commit to improving conditions for the good of all people, just as Holtzclaw did, even beyond any race, religion, or any socioeconomic condition, you know.

We can, His fact that he was, his courage and determination to serve to inspire me and to encourage me that no matter the time or the circumstances, you know, you can just persevere to do anything. Lots of encouragement from this and I found that he was an excellent role model, not only to show what can be done when you are able to dream big.

And keep going until the dream [00:18:00] becomes a reality. Right. He had a dream and he was not letting anything stop it. 

That's right. 

That's right. I mean, I would have given up, like I said, a long time ago. And then the, my takeaway from this is if your path is difficult, it means that your purpose is much bigger and far greater than you thought.

Say that for the folks in the back. If your path is difficult. It means that your purpose is much bigger and far greater than you thought.