051222 === [00:00:00] Jess Ryan: Welcome to the get together [00:00:04] Joe White: well over the world, there are people thinking about and creating a future of live digital events and performances. [00:00:09] Jess Ryan: They're disparate innovators who are artists, tech, founders on profits and investors, and they need a place to gather and share ideas. That's what the guests gather is all about. [00:00:19] Jess Ryan: I'm just a theater creator who loves bringing people together around technology art and the internet. [00:00:25] Joe White: And I'm Joe, a tech and media startup bet with over 10 years of experience growing and [00:00:29] Jess Ryan: operating businesses. Thanks for getting together with us. Let's dig in. [00:00:43] Jess Ryan: So we just had our very first episode of the get together live, which is inspired by this podcast and taken a little bit from our weekly clubhouse conversations we've been having. And, uh, and my takeaway Joe really is, um, can we just dump everything else we're [00:01:00] doing and build a multinational theater company with a subscription model? [00:01:05] Joe White: Yes. Easy. Why not [00:01:09] Jess Ryan: look at kind of Elise half jokes for if you had, if you didn't join us today, first of all, first and foremost, we're live on YouTube every Tuesday at 1:00 PM. Eastern that's United States in the United States. Um, for those of you around the world, um, And it is a group of the most extraordinary creative. [00:01:29] Jess Ryan: It's like a, the band. What is it? That league of extraordinary gentlemen, except we're not all gentlemen, um, [00:01:36] Joe White: uh, of all like the super groups that you could have picked like that like old British white men. Yeah. [00:01:43] Jess Ryan: But I like the name of it. This really good. The league of extraordinary gentlemen is a great name for group of people. [00:01:48] Jess Ryan: And these people are extraordinary. See how. That's great. [00:01:52] Joe White: And they're all gentlemen, we kicked out all the women just to keep up with the current Supreme [00:01:56] Jess Ryan: court womp womp womp. [00:02:00] Um, hopefully this is a couple of weeks later and someone has stopped crying about the Supreme court nonsense that's happening today. [00:02:06] Jess Ryan: But, um, yeah. Anyway, I, uh, we talked about a really cool article, uh, a new theater here in Brooklyn, uh, in New York. Arts is doing a subscription model. And we got talking about all the different ways like that can impact, you know, running a theater, creating new work in this new era that we find ourselves in. [00:02:26] Jess Ryan: And yeah, I definitely just walked away and I was like, oh my God, the TA the star, the time is now like strike while the iron is hot, someone should do this. Right. And like completely up end. And I was like, All eight people are sitting right in front of us right now. [00:02:43] Joe White: It's time. The time is now super secret arts. [00:02:46] Joe White: I like that. They're in the mix. I like that. They're so physically close to where I live in Brooklyn. And at the end of our conversation that they get together live. I was joking. I wasn't joking. That's what I want to say. I wasn't joking about getting subscription twenty-five dollars a month. [00:03:00] And I can go whenever I want to a show. [00:03:02] Joe White: So I'm going to wait until I'm officially not testing positive for COVID anymore. Then again, I get myself a subscription and go check out this, uh, this physical space, the art that they're putting on and, and help support a model that I think has problems or on a financial perspective. But then I love [00:03:19] Jess Ryan: aspirationally. [00:03:20] Jess Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And like Justin suggested to us, we need to just say yes to things because how in the heck are we ever going to try and build and grow and learn? Right. Which is like a lesson we all could take from the tech companies. I think those of us that do other [00:03:35] Joe White: things. What was that old adage in the tech world? [00:03:38] Joe White: Move fast and break things. Oh yeah. [00:03:41] Jess Ryan: Elizabeth Holmes quotes that men mark Zuckerberg. [00:03:44] Joe White: Yeah. That age. Well, [00:03:46] Jess Ryan: yeah, not really fast in [00:03:49] Joe White: the American [00:03:50] Jess Ryan: democracy. That's definitely. I think you're going to want to listen to that, especially if you're not just like in the theater or you're not in the theater at all, like this is a conversation that [00:04:00] involves folks that are involved in digital film theater, web three, just fans of live entertainment, [00:04:08] Joe White: freewheeling. [00:04:09] Joe White: It's exciting. Yeah. As interesting as this show. Not more [00:04:14] Jess Ryan: interesting. Yeah. What'd you think, uh, what was, w what'd you think coming out of that conversation, [00:04:20] Joe White: I really appreciated the people who are on there because I feel like often when you and I are talking or even on clubhouse generally, um, that I find myself in a position where like, if only we had someone who knew a little bit more about this, or, oh, I'm so curious about that. [00:04:35] Joe White: And this was one of those articles where I was like, Hmm, how much does a space in Guan is cost to rent? And, you know, we happened to have had someone on that, um, you know, knows as the intimate details of renting a performance space in the isn't. Uh, we didn't specifically get into that number, but that was a thought in my mind. [00:04:52] Joe White: And there was the human there with the insight and the knowledge to do it, to answer that question. And I felt similarly with both Louisa and with [00:05:00] Justin, where, you know, there are many questions that go unanswered in some of these conversations that we're able to be answered in the moment. And it just showed the power of getting the people together, who are interested in this stuff experienced in this stuff. [00:05:12] Joe White: Want to talk about this stuff all in one. [00:05:15] Jess Ryan: Yeah. And I thought with Katie Braverman too, that the perspective of someone who does subscribe to arts organizations and her community, I think she's in Sacramento. Like that's something that's like missing a lot. I feel like in all of the theorizing that not just we do, but generally folks in the arts and entertainment industries in general. [00:05:36] Jess Ryan: And I think that's like actually one of my very favorite things about this group of people, um, and the conversations we have is just that ability to. On 360 degrees of the sides of the thing. [00:05:49] Joe White: And that's fun. I was just thinking about that in terms of like, You know, in a, in our democracy, you know, there's like public advocates and things like that. [00:05:57] Joe White: Like a, a little role that's just meant to represent [00:06:00] the interest of the public kind of against political interest in the elite case and whatnot. And so one, it's fun to be the elites in that conversation too. It's nice to. Very easily and very earnestly give representation to someone who's like, Hey, I'm just a fan. [00:06:17] Joe White: And I want to be part of this world and I want to be a subscriber and I want to know what's going on. And I enjoy these conversations. And like, I liked that it wasn't like a conscious effort to find a person who represents that. But rather we were just like, oh, this person's our people. [00:06:31] Jess Ryan: I mean, that's the that's, I'm going to just say that's the best part. [00:06:34] Jess Ryan: Everything we talk about today, it's all the best part. Um, but that's another great part of this is like all these folks, every single one of them, we either met well, yeah, through anybody who's not working for our company. We met through having this conversation across the year, or just other, other similar sort of endeavors outside of these conversations and being able to, like you said, find our people.[00:07:00] [00:07:00] Jess Ryan: And have them have such diverse backgrounds and experiences and, and agendas, you know, and what they're trying to change in the world through their work. Um, I just kind of catching myself thinking like, this is the exact like job I want. And I wanted to have, you know, if I could dream of like how to spend my time part of our time being, getting to talk to these people about these ideas and thinking and stretching each other to grow and, and reconsider positions. [00:07:29] Jess Ryan: Like, that's it. That's, that's the good stuff. At least, I don't know for me. Uh, and it seems like for you to [00:07:35] Joe White: it's on the list, [00:07:36] Jess Ryan: it's definitely on the list. What else was, uh, I know you said you wanted to talk a little more about sort of the idea of a Netflix for performance model. What else was on your mind? [00:07:46] Joe White: Well, I just want to rehash that. I hate that comparison. That sort of take the thing that everyone knows and like use it as a marketing ploy, which actually that is a place I want to get into, which is, I do think that [00:08:00] this as a concept is a great marketing ploy. Yeah. Which I think means it will work once or twice and maybe continue to work in a very niche. [00:08:09] Joe White: But that you have to be sort of the first out with that marketing play for it to work. And so I think, and I hope that's a pretty good artist by leveraging sort of this approach and this story that they're telling and getting people excited around the idea of like, oh my God, a Netflix, why performance? [00:08:23] Joe White: Brilliant idea. Why hasn't that existed? Um, it's like a million reasons why it hasn't existed, but I one hate it. And to appreciate that someone's trying it, someone's doing it. Um, cause from like a side. Have, you know, the actual, like, I can't get myself beyond the economics of why it's not Netflix for life performance. [00:08:45] Joe White: Um, cause like there's both the repeat watching which plays into why Netflix works and why Spotify works. It's like I will go back and listen to songs over and over and over again. That's how I extract value from the subscription that I'm sort of [00:09:00] making. And each of those additional streams cost Spotify, essentially nothing. [00:09:04] Joe White: Same thing with Netflix. No, I can watch movies over and over again. I can bounce around in each additional stream that I'm getting utility from. It doesn't cost them anything to give me. And that just like is not the case in a physical performance space with right. Live people putting on things like there is. [00:09:20] Joe White: Every single time anything is consumed. Um, which is, I think one of the big things that breaks down in this model, but that doesn't mean that a subscriber, marketing ploy, you know, with a really good story and a really good sort of niche that they're appealing to catering, to helping people see themselves inside of like what work. [00:09:44] Joe White: And I think it just requires that maybe it needs to be a little bit more expensive than $25 or not. Maybe you just need a zillion people who sign up because they care about it because they want it to exist. But don't actually. Take up that physical space that costs them money to, to [00:10:00] fill. Um, so I'm excited for it to, to try. [00:10:06] Joe White: And like I said, I want to be part of that test. And $25 to experiment is so cheap and I kind of show up [00:10:13] Jess Ryan: at least one. [00:10:16] Joe White: But yeah, I can't help achieve at the comparison to Netflix because it's just not the same, like, unless they're starting a streaming platform. [00:10:22] Jess Ryan: Well, that's, I think like why I said at the beginning of this conversation, like let's just dump it all in and do this. [00:10:28] Jess Ryan: I feel like so much of the stuff that we've learned across our world. In live digital is so integral to making something like this work, and I think it can be done. And I think the work that super secret arts is doing is hugely important. Do you know what I mean? And I know that Luis pointed out they are going to add live streaming, which is exciting and all of that good stuff, but like, I'm really interested in the idea of a, a model in a theater like this. [00:10:55] Jess Ryan: Um, well, to two places I'm interested. One of [00:11:00] which I was talking a little bit about, which is like, who says it has to be one single theater, you know what I mean? If we're just going to break all the rules and reinvent all of this, like I'm really interested in what's possible when you, your subscription gets you more access in order to leverage more content and material. [00:11:15] Jess Ryan: Um, and I'm also interested in. The idea that you could potentially start this as a nonprofit, just to get it going. And that if you have six or seven shows or 20, you know, if you're a really, really genitor, generative theater, you are a nonprofit to get going and it's earned income. You know, you're like idealist and the job board where they'd really didn't have to do too much with individual donations and things like that. [00:11:42] Jess Ryan: It was just like earned income on the job board. Uh, and you start back catalog. Frickin theater live. You know what I mean? And then 10 years from now, five years from now, whatever it is, there's probably a moment where you can switch over to a for-profit model. You know, [00:12:00] if you want it to, you don't have to, but if you want it to, because you've got enough, you know, we talk about sometimes like live streaming things live where you don't know. [00:12:10] Jess Ryan: You know, recording of which performance you're going to see if you happen to tune in that night, um, or whatever it is. I just think there's so much possibility in the idea of just like leaving behind everything we think we know about a theater and a subscription. [00:12:25] Joe White: Uh, I'm a little stuck in that like marketing side of things again. [00:12:29] Joe White: So like back in the beginning, how do you get this thing? Jump-started kick-started and it seems like choice of content is like a big, like, it's a big piece of what you have control over. It's sort of like, who are we giving space to? And. I think part of their objective is like give space to as many people as possible kind of anyone who wants to come. [00:12:48] Joe White: But if it does come to it like a curatorial place, or, you know, they'll set a certain intention in terms of like, here's what this space can both physically do in support, but also like here's the vision of this space. And it attracts I think a [00:13:00] certain type of performance, certain type of artist just based on its own ethos. [00:13:03] Joe White: Um, and so using sort of like social media content marketing flywheel in terms of the type of creator that chooses to come into. Is going to be socially forward or somehow controversial feels like the wrong word, but it's that idea of like, uh, individual content creators will be on the bleeding edge of what is most sort of interesting and, or, um, attention grabbing. [00:13:28] Joe White: And so they just kind of both help that person create that content that can then be leveraged in a social media fashion. And that helps them sort of circulate around like drive promotion for super secret arts, because they are sort of underneath that they're foundational to the creation of that content that then in theory goes viral in some way, or has some sort of success. [00:13:49] Joe White: That's partnering with people to put things into Tik TOK or something like that. So using this other model of marketing that already exists, which is yeah, that, that sort of individual creator led inside of a [00:14:00] social network, but getting the physical space to sort of up-level and, or augment what they're already doing in a social fashion and to like leaning into that because. [00:14:12] Joe White: Marketing sort of pipeline and it's not a pipeline, whatever that marketing device that is social media, like is already happening and it's can this space physically like tap into that through the art and creators that it supports. Does that make sense to you in terms of. I don't think again, it's not all the way curatorial, cause they're there. [00:14:32] Joe White: I don't think they're going to be in a position to like really sift through a zillion different people. Um, but the idea that they would like establish themselves with an ethos that has that. Marketing channel in mind. It's like each of these individual creators that's going to come into here is going to, by promoting themselves, promote us and we're going to help them promote themselves and promote us. [00:14:54] Joe White: And it doesn't just stop at sort of like the subscribers that super secret arts brings on [00:15:00] and the performance that happens inside of its [00:15:01] Jess Ryan: stores. I think that's exactly what we would recommend to someone. Right. Because the question always for us, when we're talking about anything, Starts verging on live digital is it's not the end beginning in the end that when that broadcast happens, right? [00:15:14] Jess Ryan: What are you doing? Anything that's video based in any manner, which you could argue, even in-person theater that doesn't have a digital Elm element, almost always has a contract to be able to shoot video right. For marketing and stuff like that. So, so always you have to ask this question. What are you doing to get beforehand to get audiences in? [00:15:38] Jess Ryan: I E the marketing flywheel of social platforms, but we're creator. We're talking about creators that are wildly creative. So like there's some more opportunity there than for a theater that's doing to Jermaine's point today, music man for the 900 at the time. So what are you doing to get back more? Yeah, exactly. [00:15:53] Jess Ryan: That's really the takeaway from this spot. Cat. This is more music, man. Poor music, man. [00:16:00] Uh, what are you doing to get butts in seats beforehand? That's the thing you just described and how are you putting all that video content to work for you afterwards to attract new audiences? Right. That's the exact thing that we recommend to people and sit there and try to theater, you know, strategic cries about like, what are the right choices for each of, uh, or any of our individual live digital content, um, client customers. [00:16:23] Jess Ryan: So, yeah, I, I definitely think that. It's a very strong play. I love [00:16:27] Joe White: it. I also want to take it back quickly to curation. Cause I'm curious your thoughts on this. You're like, I don't actually know how a theater is structured in terms of sort of, um, yeah. Demand. Now, what is it? It's supply supply of performers. [00:16:43] Joe White: Yeah. The supplier performers to come rent the space and put on a show, rent, rent, this space, air quotes. Um, like, is there someone in that role that's actively sort of courting and trying to bring people in to use this space actively sort of promoting super-secret arts in this world. And I was just thinking [00:17:00] about like, uh, those amazing women who did the bridge written musical on tech talk. [00:17:04] Joe White: Right. And if you're like early enough, you know, they have yet to win that Grammy they've yet to like, become catapulted to sort of like the public square, they in the way that they are. But if you were just like seeing that and like you caught the early buzz of it and like the tailor, the reds article about why it's cool and interesting, and you reach out to and be like, oh, what's up. [00:17:21] Joe White: Y'all are in New York. Do you want to come and put on a thing as super secret arts? Right. And they're like, oh, hell yeah. Like. We're just kind of doing this anyway. And we've got like a cool fun following on Tik TOK, but like, we're not big. We're not real. We're not famous. And like, so did you capture that, that little bit of moment that's happening pretty much exclusively on the internet and you say, Hey, we'll give you a little bit of real world. [00:17:45] Joe White: To play around with it a little bit more just to do it for your friends, just to have some other version of it that exists in physical space, a little bit more, live, a little, slightly different energy, record it, create more content. And then that just feeds back into the tick-tock loop. Um, [00:18:00] yeah. Like who, who should be out there sort of like actively. [00:18:06] Joe White: Hey bridge written musical, uh, peoples what's it bear in something. [00:18:10] Jess Ryan: Oh, that's um, that's sort of what, oh, circle jerk. Right? That's what's happening with circle jerk. [00:18:19] Jess Ryan: I did realize I just said that. So matter of fact, like it was not, I was not saying the word in circle jerk. You're welcome everyone. Um, I'll put the link in the show notes with circle. Jerk was like this show that happened in quarantine digitally. That was. And I think was nominated. Yeah. It was a finalist for the Pulitzer prize. [00:18:38] Jess Ryan: And they're about to do a thoughts about that, but it's what reminds me of that is like online phenom, you know, moving to in-person. But the answer to your actual question is tricky and probably really simple all at the same time. Right? So like back to how our theater structured, it just [00:19:00] depends. Right. [00:19:00] Jess Ryan: It's like, Like a place like theater, me too, where our friend Michael, who joins us for the get together live, uh, is an associate artist at they, they are curating their own work. They are developing programs that people can apply to based on their, what we would, you know, say as a mission or a thesis as a company. [00:19:21] Jess Ryan: So in that way, it's a little cute and they're giving them space. Right. And then they probably just have a straight up rentals division where you're just like, do you want to rent this Gloria? And so like something like what you're proposing kind of just ends up. I think having to be the Casper model, the direct to consumer model, right? [00:19:38] Jess Ryan: Like, and the question becomes other than DMS on Twitter, like how do we allow people, a marketplace for people to contact each other directly? And how do you use. How do you account for the 1% of the nut famous shows the bridge written before it was a thing and like the 99% of stuff that would be on a [00:20:00] marketplace where you're like, I have no fucking idea if this is good or not. [00:20:02] Jess Ryan: You know what I mean? [00:20:05] Joe White: Yeah. So it's back to like the curatorial. If I have super secret arts, I'm asking people to pay that $25, then I have to be. Promising that there will be at least something of interest on the stage or at the very best, like every single thing is something I might want to go see. [00:20:22] Jess Ryan: Yeah. [00:20:23] Jess Ryan: That's why I think there's so much promising. Uh, coalition of theaters that are super mission based in of this moment. Right? It's like when I think about Justin's, you know, space in London, broad gate, I trust. That anything I see is going to be interesting there because of the mission and the pulse behind what they're doing, it qualifies as interesting for me. [00:20:51] Jess Ryan: I saw anything. And I think that way too, about like me too, where Michael works, same thing. Like have I seen some stuff there that was like probably by all [00:21:00] accounts. Performance ready. Yeah, sure. But I really enjoyed something about seeing it. You know what I mean? Like, so the idea that you could connect these opportunities for a different strata of theater, the try it's the yeses like Justin was saying that, just say yes, theater, that's deeply rooted in like opening pipelines and, and, and providing space and equitable pay like Michael was talking about today. [00:21:25] Jess Ryan: Like I'm going to feel really good about my $25. Going to that. And I'm certainly gonna not feel like my time was wasted until you lose my trust as the, you know, thing I'm subscribing to [00:21:37] Joe White: got me thinking about the platform and it relies on like a trove of human beings, looking through subreddits and, or the new page and uploading, downloading, commenting into writing. [00:21:49] Joe White: And that's what gets propagated to the homepage for the lurkers, like myself, who just kinda go for it. Drop in entertainment nonsense. But like without that sort of base layer [00:22:00] of people interacting with things, commenting on things, chatting with each other posting things like nothing could possibly ever trickle up because it doesn't exist. [00:22:08] Joe White: There is no engagement. Um, and I feel like why a Reddit works is because people are reading on the internet, but also want to express themselves. And it becomes an outlet. Uh, like for the sort of inner reflection of themselves, like this is the thing I am interested in this. I think I have concerns or care about whether it's a specific topic or it's like literally being the person to decide what is interesting on that new page, clicking up, clicking down. [00:22:30] Joe White: Um, and it just like rent it just a lot of people that like leverage it at scale, attracted enough people through a weird little community that then blew up and grew bigger and became self reinforcing. Um, How do you, do you find that person or that type of person in a situation like this, or is that like part of the ethos of what super secrets, super secret arts as to like, um, sort of put out there and be like, this is who we're looking for. [00:22:56] Joe White: This is who we are. No, we are, we want to be [00:23:00] experimental and cure durational a little bit and we want to take risks and we want to have things that suck and we're going to have things that are great. Yeah. And like that's part of the. It makes me think a little too as well about, I can't remember it was like home goods or Marshall's or one of these TBI max, or one of those types of stores. [00:23:16] Joe White: And they like over too quickly, like they couldn't index it fast enough to be successful in an online store fashion. So they sort of like change that into a superpower. And they were like, no, like you can't get any of this stuff online. And we get shipments every week. And so you have to come in person a treasure [00:23:34] Jess Ryan: hunt. [00:23:36] Joe White: Yeah. So it's like a treasure hunt. And like now it's part of what people seek out when they go to that store, which I can remember. [00:23:42] Jess Ryan: No, Tuesday morning was literally that they get the shoe shipment on Tuesday. That's why it was called Tuesday morning. And it was like a, yeah, like a TJ Maxx. And you couldn't buy anything online. [00:23:52] Jess Ryan: Yeah. [00:23:52] Joe White: And so like does, uh, an institution like super, super arts kind of have to lean into the thing that could be viewed as a fault, right? [00:24:00] Oh, it's it's not known enough to be indexed. Yeah. Kara a ton about giving a voice to people who can otherwise have it. And I don't know how exactly to market, cause I'm sure there's a ton of theaters that are trying to do something similar. [00:24:11] Joe White: But if you like capture the right voice there and you make it kind of playful and exciting and like build into the expectation that you might see something that's absolutely terrible. And therefore like you haven't lost the trust of that person because that's why you've signed up. And that's the experiment that you want to be along for the ride. [00:24:28] Joe White: And like, are there enough of those people to support a theater like [00:24:31] Jess Ryan: this? Yeah. And then you just have to like, keep up the work. That's that's where I was saying, like, if I definitely agree, I think it's like an identity play if it's going to work in the theater, but you have to keep producing the kind of work. [00:24:43] Jess Ryan: Yeah. The M the mission propelling it that I signed up for in the first place. Cause I feel like that's a risky place for a theater, you know, who cause you can get lost sometimes and your mission. Um, and we're humans, right? We're humans, leading theaters and stuff like that. We only, we make mistakes. Um, But yeah, no, I think that's [00:25:00] super interesting and right. [00:25:00] Jess Ryan: This is what I kept thinking about. All this conversation is then all of the things that you just described, the, it makes me think of all these other cool things you can start building in based on like what we know, which is something you were sort of just like, um, like tiptoeing over, which is like building then stuff at the theater that you can only go see in person. [00:25:18] Jess Ryan: Only pay for outside of your subscription. You know what I mean? And have it be a couple times a year and be really special. Like there's all those things that we talked about in the early days of supply and demand and the addition of a digital space for your theater increase the value of the in-person experience. [00:25:34] Jess Ryan: Like I think this is all in play in this model, and I think it's really cool. [00:25:38] Joe White: Curious to like with that and like the digital extension of something like a super secret. Like, do you know if that exists already, like could be tuned into something like 10, eight if we want it to, or is that like a, Hey, this is coming in theory in the future. [00:25:51] Joe White: I don't know, actually, but yeah, but it was like set a couple of times across our conversation earlier today, um, on the get together live and I was like, oh wait, does this already exist? Or [00:26:00] is this a future aspiration? [00:26:03] Jess Ryan: Yeah, cause that big, when that big, I mean that big article came out what a month ago or something like that last few weeks. [00:26:07] Jess Ryan: Yeah. Interesting. Well, I will be very interested to see how this all goes down. Uh, and I'm excited for you all to tune into. They get together alive next week. Um, like we said, we're, we're live on YouTube at 1:00 PM Eastern, uh, all on camera. I know [00:26:25] Joe White: it sounds trite, but like that really was another fun conversation and it's literally scripted. [00:26:32] Joe White: Well, that was fun. And then we try not to say, well, that was fun, honestly, kind of flat again, thank you to everyone for listening and being part of the. [00:26:40] Jess Ryan: Because the goal of this podcast is to bring people together and have these important conversations. So share this with someone who is, as Frank as Jonas, [00:26:48] Joe White: I'm going to tell you what I think of that bad performance is super, super [00:26:52] Jess Ryan: secret arts. [00:26:53] Jess Ryan: Oh man. Um, or who would be interested in the get together live, which is a conversation, uh, with a bunch of [00:27:00] other smart people, probably smarter than us, honestly. So, uh, yeah. Give, give us a share if you care to [00:27:05] Joe White: I'm Joe. And we'll see you back here next week. Bye .