Jess Ryan 0:02 We're back. Welcome to Conversations around conversations about the conversations we just had on the clubhouse app earlier today. I am Jess Ryan, CEO and co founder of Broadway Unlocked. Joe White 0:12 And I'm Joe White, co founder of Broadway Unlocked and this is Tech Theatre: Clubhouse Conversations. It's a podcast to continue that conver-ception because every week on clubhouse Tuesdays 12:55 Eastern if you want to come join us, we have amazing conversations with brilliant people who sit at the intersection of technology and theater. Jess Ryan 0:30 We always walk away from these clubhouse talks with so many thoughts, as you all know if you've been listening, so we decided to share those in a podcast and spend a little more time with our friends and collaborators. So with that, welcome to Tech Theatre Tuesday. We were off from the podcast because we had a really huge honor. Last week, we got to film the Paul Taylor Dance Company at the Oculus in New York City in honor of 911, the 20th anniversary of 911 they performed a piece called Promethean fire that Paul actually choreographed that was, is said, to be inspired by 911. They performed it at the Oculus, and we got to shoot a film of it which was so exciting. And Joe that was your really your first big shoot with us. Right? Which Haha, just kidding. We've never done anything that big ever as a company. Joe White 1:18 Yeah, first one for me. I was actually just trying to think of like, have I done anything like that in the past? Jess Ryan 1:23 Oh yeah, have you? Joe White 1:23 You know, my time at Maker Studios, there was lots of weird random things like that. But no, nothing ever exactly like that. And it was fun to be in the mix of it kind of operating as like a PA an extra set of hands just like getting to enjoy the day from the ground ground level, but also not have much responsibility. So I couldn't really screw anything up. Jess Ryan 1:45 That's the way we like it right there. I have to ask you, I mean, this is honest, because like, if you listen to the podcast, if you've listened to any of our podcasts that we've made before for Broadway Unlocked been to any of our shows, you probably know, I end up having my hands in a lot of what's going on. But this film shoot was actually so big, and I was directing it that like I wasn't even allowed to be on comms. Like, the whole rule was just Jess direct this and we'll take care of everything else, which is wild, number one, but number two leaves me like what were your impressions of the day and like your feelings and what you what did you see? Because I just missed all of that, you know? Joe White 2:22 Oh, yeah, it's funny. I wish I like you know, had a had a body camera and just running around. Jess Ryan 2:27 I'd totally watch that. Joe White 2:28 And we like cut to it. You know, it's like when they give like a little kid a cell phone with like the camera on and you're like, oh, now I'm seeing the world from someone who's two feet tall. This is wild, Jess Ryan 2:37 Or when you put it on a cat. Yeah. Joe White 2:41 But yeah, and just to quickly recap the story of, we were writing names on all the comms mics and handing them out. One was given to Jess, I actually think I gave it to you. Jess Ryan 2:51 I ratted you out so hard accidentally. Unknown Speaker 2:53 Oops. I mean, I wasn't the one who put the name on it. So I don't care. I was distributing. Jess Ryan 2:59 The first AD, our first AD Lauren, who's incredible and works on a bunch of CBS shows for her like, day job. Haha, also funny. She was like, Who gave you that com? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. She's like, Who gave you that com? And I was like, Joe. And she's like, why did he give you that? And I was like, I don't know. I don't think he knew either. And she was like, give me that com. Joe White 3:21 Took it on took that authority. And yeah, I have no idea why I gave it to you either. I was just doing doing my job as a peon. Go run this over there. Okay. Which actually, like was sort of the shape of my day, it was it was really nice to like, I don't have the the ability to do what you do on that day as a director, nor what Kurt was doing, nor what Greg was doing, nor what Lauren was doing. All of these people were in very fancy important roles across the day. And so it led me be free in a way to just experience it. And to experience it like from the inside. Like I wasn't just a spectator passing by in the Oculus, I like knew roughly what was going on most of the time and like had the agency to talk to the kind of anyone I wanted to on crew and then also just random walkers by so I just got to like, have fun with it, I got to really like enjoy it. And I actually think Lucie and I like a couple of times across the day, like said that exact thing to each other is like, this is so fun. And it's so nice, to let like all of this pressure associated with this very big, very awesome shoot is not in cannot possibly be on our necks or our heads or on our shoulders. And so like we were just, you know, having a day and really enjoying it, you know, from like, the things that stood out to me were, you know, first and foremost, like the people like the people that we had all together so there was a core contingency of Broadway Unlocked people and then as well, a whole sort of group of crew members on that. What's that, like the photography group, what do we call it? Jess Ryan 4:50 Shout out to Solarc Productions. Yeah, our DP Kurt Solakc also has a production company who staffed up our whole camera department and they were incredible. Joe White 4:58 They were wonderful and just like fun to like, chat with them, we did have a bit of time at the top because maybe we arrived a little too early unbeknownst to us. And just to, like, interact with them and to talk to them and like ask them about their cool gear and like, just, you know, humans and people and being in space again, was super fun. And like, Yeah, I had like the space and the ability to just like, go talk to people. And I love that I love having that. That was one like, just really big, awesome part of it. So to, to feel in the weeds with those people and to understand a little bit more of how they work, what they do, why each of their roles is so important. I think I said this to Lauren as well. It's nice to have context for what something on a spreadsheet does and why they're important and why you can't just sort of strike it out and try to save money. Jess Ryan 5:45 Right, because if you're like if you didn't know, you know, you're looking at like our budget and our crew list you've got and we're not even as big as like a TV or film production, right. But you're looking at a first ad a second ad, a second second ad, a camera operator, a first AC a second AC or spotter like which I know is like a fun conversation we had a lot. Joe White 6:05 Yeah the spotters were like I was like, Oh, this role, it seems so unimportant on paper. And it's so important in person. Someone who sort of shadowing and creating space for the, the camera operator as they move around. And like there's human beings and stanchions and dancers and other like elements that they have to navigate around. But they can't be looking at all that stuff. They have to be operating that camera and getting the shot and paying attention to their equipment. So this human is just like their their Sherpa. And it was so cool. And our our second AC slash spotters were great. Yeah. So I got to enjoy that. I also loved like the little power trip of having like a lanyard and an earpiece. And being like one half step up from every odd rando, who was in the Oculus at the time be like, oh, excuse me, sir. We're trying to keep this lane clear for the dancers, there's a performance that's about to start, you should really you should hang around, you should come check it out. Jess Ryan 7:01 I feel you were born for that role. Because if you don't know Joe loves to kick people out of our conference rooms, at our workspace when they're overstaying what they haven't booked for. So I feel like there's a very direct correlation to like what you just described you were doing on the day of. Joe White 7:13 Yeah, yeah, no, those are basically the same thing. They bring the same emotions, the same endorphins come flooding out. It was great, but like to be able to sort of like, be part of gifting the world this performance in like mine is the very smallest of roles, but I still like got to be like, oh, yeah, it's actually starting in two minutes. Like you should grab a spot right over there. They're going to be coming out right over here. And like, have those little interactions with 10, 20 people. I love those little interactions. And I love that like the humanity that comes with it, which is such a big component of dance. Such a big component of the arts generally is like the human connection that comes from participating in it and being in it together. Yeah. And like I got this weird little very specific version of that. Jess Ryan 7:56 I love that. I love that. And you know what? Something occurred to me as I was listening to you recount all of this. I was thinking a lot about this the day after. I talked a lot with my friend Michael Littig, who is an associate theatre artist with theatre me too, and does really amazing work around the globe with his nonprofit, Great Globe Foundation. We frequently talk about being part of a new generation of artists who are from the digital era, and the Creative Cloud generation where we just do more than one thing, and that it's hard. There's no name for it like in TV a showrunner is kind of the closest thing and that's what we use a lot for me. Just someone who like, is the head creative on it. But also like a showrunner manages departments, it's, it's a concept that doesn't really exist in the theater, right? So we frequently are talking, find ourselves talking about how do we communicate the value of being that kind of artist and it was something that was really on my mind, at the Oculus, because I was afforded the space to just be a director for the first time in my entire career, particularly with with film, I've been just a director in theater, but there's some some of that element of how I felt when I was like, Oh, I just get to spend my time figuring out like, and, you know, making sure we capture what we need that we I don't even have words to describe what that felt like. And I can imagine on a film film, right where there was like, my hands were a little tight in this scenario. So there's not as much I could do even that than if I was in a film. So I imagine it's extraordinary and crazy and amazing on a film, but it was really cool. But also, I was like, I think that this is not the job for me. I think I really didn't enjoy not being able to do anything for two and a half hours basically during setup. Like you're just like, literally got comms taken away from me. I mean, yeah. And you can't help with camera departments and there's nothing to set up yet. And I know like in another scenario, that's not the Oculus. I would it wouldn't have even been on set until it was time for me to work. So let's acknowledging that. But I think it made me think about, like, I really love that, like, my job is multifaceted like that, when I'm on a production that we do you know what I mean. And it's something that I think we should talk about in here, because I feel like with Michael, and I think we should have him on the podcast and talk about that sort of, like generation of the way, an auteur, what we used to call an auteur, you know, is changing. Joe White 10:27 That's really interesting. Like the, the, the YouTubers, and like the the, the the generation of artists that had to learn the craft from the ground up and are their own marketing department, they are there on social media promotion, like they do everything. And I actually wanted to ask you the question, which you've like, half answered already now, like, were you able to, like turn that part of your brain off? While you were just playing the singular role of director during the shoot? Because I know those thoughts are going through your head, I know you have opinions about where in the freight elevator things should be stored for best use and whatever, like all these very, very specific things, like I'm certain that they were flowing through your head and like, Did you were you able to like silence those thoughts, push them to the side and actually use the space and the time to focus on the the director bit of what you were doing? Jess Ryan 11:13 Yeah, I think it was a little like, I was helped in that. It's for the best, right? I just kept reminding myself it is for the best of this production and what we're doing to just let everything be even if it's like you said, 80%, the 80/20 rule, right, like 80% of it was done the way I want it, and 20% was absolutely not. And I was like, How is this done? But I can't say anything this is not my job. But I definitely I think yeah, I hated not being able to spend my time actively, I guess, do you know what I mean? Like during the film, like when we were actually filming, no, fine. Didn't think about one freaking thing except for is that camera where I need it to be to capture what I need for this edit, you know what I mean? But the between times, I definitely was not able to turn all the way off. And it made me think to this, you know, idea of like what Michael and I have been talking about what I think would be so interesting, particularly, as you just mentioned, given your background with YouTubers, is that I think this is my experience, at least. But for a generation of folks my age that came up in a very different theater, but became, you know, creators, old traditional way of creating and theater, which is like, I'm a director, I'm an actor, I do this one thing, and it's my craft. But then, you know, as I was coming up in the industry, switching to this kind of more modern showrunner-y kind of model. There's a switch somewhere where like, and this definitely happened for me where I would be like, Yes, I am an actor and a producer. But I really only produce because I have to, to get the show made that I want to make or to make sure I'm working all the time. And there was a switch somewhere along the line, the art form became doing it all, right, like, just like the art form is directing the film. And so like in an old model, right, like, just a more traditional model before times model, whatever you want to call it. That was the art form was like making the film now somewhere along the way, it's switched. And like, I love the art form of what I do, which is the integration of the brain considering all of that stuff, you know. Joe White 13:21 Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Because my mind just went down the path of like, okay, what's like the furthest extrapolation of that art form, right? So if you've, like, expanded beyond what the director does to include how the producer produces, and how the set is all put together, and all the elements that come together to allow the director to direct as part of the art, it's like, can you just expand the walls even further to like, just include all of life is like just living your life? Its own like art form? Jess Ryan 13:46 Of course it is. I love that. Joe White 13:46 And then like the weird efficiency of like, finding the right subway car door to get out at and like the little like joys and elements of noticing things throughout your day as you're just walking around, like, subtle part of the art form. I love that. Yeah, whoa, deep cuts, deep thoughts. Jess Ryan 14:03 I know, okay. Well, I'm super glad that you were able to be a part of it. It is wild, how different our experiences were just like hearing you recount back. I mean, there's just like, almost no overlap, which I guess thing about a film like a big film production. Joe White 14:15 Yeah the only overlap was one picture that Jess and I took in the middle. Because I actually I didn't say this, but I had this funny like, feeling of like, oh, like Jess and I, obviously, we have this very close connection. We are co founders, we started a company together, we are in the trenches all day, every day for the past, like year and a half. But today, like I feel like I shouldn't or can't talk to her like that, that I didn't know where the line was drawn, or what the rules were. And I like I like took a stance of like, oh, yeah, like, I'm going to inhabit my role as a PA and like, kind of treat the relationship that way except for like these little moments of crossover. Just like hey, how are you? Yeah. How are you human, Jess? Jess Ryan 14:54 Yeah, I really appreciate it when you asked me that. Joe White 14:56 And then Jess and I took a cute picture, which I haven't seen yet. Jess Ryan 14:58 Me either. So we don't actually know it's cute. Joe White 15:00 It's gotta be cute. We're both in it. Jess Ryan 15:02 Well, for all of y'all that are listening, thanks for going on this journey. There's so much other cool stuff about the Oculus shoot, but we're gonna let you just see it for yourself when you join us for the Paul Taylor Dance Company benefit, Modern is Now: Illumination. It's on November 18. You can check our website alltogethernow dot live to get the ticket link. We have a digital venue and a lot of really cool stuff happening before and after the show. And of course, on the mainstage we are presenting a beautiful program to raise money for Paul Taylor Dance Company that culminates in this film of Promethean Fire, shot had the Oculus for 911 I can't wait to see you there. Joe White 15:39 It's gonna be amazing. And I'll be with all of you. I haven't seen any of the film yet. And I'm really excited to see the footage. It's gonna be incredible. Yay, see you there. Join the conversation with us on Twitter. You can tweet at us. We are @bwyunlocked and use the hashtag techtheatrech to share your thoughts. Jess Ryan 15:59 And of course be a part of our next conversation Tuesday at 12:55 Eastern on clubhouse. Be sure to raise your hand jump in, let us know you listen to the podcast and get into the conversation with us. Joe White 16:10 And if you enjoyed today's episode, we would love it if you could rate us five stars on Apple podcasts. Jess Ryan 16:15 But until then, we'll see you next week. Joe White 16:17 Bye everyone. Jess Ryan 16:18 Bye!