042822 === [00:00:00] Jess Ryan: Welcome to the get together [00:00:04] Joe White: well over the world, there are people thinking about and creating a future of live digital events and performances. [00:00:09] Jess Ryan: They're disparate innovators who are artists, tech, founders on profits and investors, and they need a place to gather and share ideas. That's what the guest gather is all about. [00:00:19] Jess Ryan: I'm just a theater creator who loves bringing people together around technology art and the internet. [00:00:25] Joe White: And I'm Joe, a tech and media startup bet with over 10 years of experience growing and [00:00:29] Jess Ryan: operating businesses. Thanks for getting together with us. Let's dig in. [00:00:45] Joe White: Uh, hold on. I'm just, I'm looking at my phone. [00:00:51] Jess Ryan: I take back. I was going to start with something really nice about you again, but now I dig it all back. He's so happy right now. Like the [00:01:00] shit eating grin on his face is so huge. It feels [00:01:04] Joe White: great. Does it? Does. [00:01:10] Jess Ryan: We were talking recently. And you mentioned something that I like in passing that we kind of glossed over that I just like really wanted to take a moment to acknowledge, which is that you enjoy doing this podcast because you've found you have more to say than you thought you did. Yeah. I like I, I'm not joking now. [00:01:26] Jess Ryan: Cause I know unlike you who treats our relationship on this podcast, flippantly accurate. I am actually being really serious. I found that to be. Like pretty profound and a whole bunch of different ways when I heard you say that. I, and I just wanted to hear more. [00:01:47] Joe White: Yeah. Oh, well, funny enough. I have thoughts. [00:01:51] Joe White: What I know here, the space for thoughts. Sometimes they say happy. [00:01:57] Jess Ryan: Let's flip it in. See, [00:01:58] Joe White: I'm flipping in, [00:02:00] flipping out. [00:02:03] Joe White: Uh, yeah. When, uh, when I, when I said that, um, the, the episode that you about to listen to, I was [00:02:09] Jess Ryan: trying to hide that [00:02:12] Joe White: spoilers. Feel free to cut this. If it doesn't fit with your edit, not happening. Um, it, it came out and felt very genuine. As I said, it like, you know, unscripted moments love them. Um, cause it's, it's about like, what's like real in there and Eric himself kind of alluded to this. [00:02:28] Joe White: He was like, I'm really, I've thought a lot about this space. How I feel about it, what I think it's like deep down in there. And then each question, each moment, each conversation is about like pulling those different pieces and assembling them into sentences. But it's like, it's, you know, drawing from like a very real, very sturdy foundation. [00:02:47] Joe White: Um, and that's, that's quite a bit how I've started to feel. And it all started like, I don't know, like, let's say almost three years ago, I had just recently gotten out of a [00:03:00] relationship that was like six years long and it was. I don't even know like who I am right now. Right. And like, that was part of the problem in the relationship. [00:03:08] Joe White: It became a bigger problem out of the relationship. And I was just like, I don't even know what, like what I like or what I want, or like anything, anything. And it became sort of an exploration and like, okay, like what do I want to like, tap into like the feelings that I'm having, like identify them, learn from them, consider them, recognize them, use them. [00:03:27] Joe White: And so for like, yeah, let's call it the past three years for the simplicity of it. It's been an exercise in doing that more and more and more and more, and recognizing the different feelings I have and sort of letting my mind sort of just wander to where it wants to go naturally. And to. Identify that, which makes me me that, which makes me happy. [00:03:45] Joe White: That which makes me interested and I've gotten better at it. And when I let my brain just wander or when I, you know, try to channel it, it's, it's a little bit more conscious than that. It goes places. I love it because you don't control [00:04:00] necessarily where it goes. Yeah. Right. And you asked me a question and I'm like, okay, let's see where it goes. [00:04:04] Joe White: And each time it's a little adventure as to what set of thoughts and what set of experiences it pulls up from that foundation and that, you know, drawing from the broad base of work and things I've read and things I've explored and cables that I've assembled. Oh, it comes together into random things that I say on this podcast. [00:04:24] Joe White: Wait, [00:04:25] Jess Ryan: I feel like there's something missing that is not been said explicitly. And I'm going to take a guess at it. Cause it sounds a little bit to me, like it's like a computer learning, it had feelings, you're an asshole, [00:04:39] Jess Ryan: but I actually mean that to see it. You're right. I said that specifically for the impact, but is you're a really linear, logical. Sort of thinker? Well, some linear is probably not right, because I do actually watch you think non-linearly all the time, but, but there is like a method to the way you process things that like, [00:05:00] I isn't in my brain. [00:05:01] Jess Ryan: Right. Like, et cetera. So the thing I'm hearing nested is this idea of like letting go or wandering is very contrary to the way Joe. Brain who knows what footing it's on is used to working in. [00:05:19] Joe White: Yeah, I think I know what missing element you're talking about and I didn't address it, but I should have a, is external expectations. [00:05:27] Joe White: That's like the big factor that used to guide a lot of what I was thinking, how I was feeling, what I was doing was what does someone else expect of me? Whether it's my, the person I'm in a relationship with, or it's that I'm in school and there's a specific, you know, set of parameters within which to operate. [00:05:42] Joe White: So it's like that idea that there's some external force. That should or could be guiding the way that I think the actions that I take, maybe even as far as like what I want or what I'm interested in, you know, parents influence sure. Informing, you know, what I choose to study in college. I don't know things like that.[00:06:00] [00:06:00] Joe White: Um, and so I think that's the big missing factor and the thing that I've sort of turned away from it a bit, you know, it still, it still applies just to be like, care about what they think and their influence on me. Um, but it hasn't sort of quieted or silenced. Inside voice and that I'm inside voice now. [00:06:18] Joe White: That's not what I want. Um, yeah, it hasn't quieted sort of the, the, the, the feelings and the, the, the genuine curiosity, genuine excitement that just sort of exists because it exists. And not because someone told me it should exist. So I think that's the different. [00:06:35] Jess Ryan: Well, it makes me really happy. I like, I was thinking back, as you said that too, when we first met and you were like, I never wanted to be this like a CEO person and go do the talks and things. [00:06:46] Jess Ryan: And I realized, like, I was just going to say, I know that you don't like where I really enjoy being out to go to dinner with new people and like sort of talk, you know, to a million folks in a million different capacities or whatever it [00:07:00] is that I have to do, you know, on a daily basis as a CEO, What I remember thinking, as I was getting to know, you was like, no way, am I letting this guy get away with not doing a podcast or not being on a panel with me? [00:07:13] Jess Ryan: You know what I mean? And I'm really glad you didn't just say no, you know, and stick to it. Okay. [00:07:20] Joe White: Uh, not letting me shy away. I do genuinely appreciate it. Because it would have been so easy, I'd be like, well, I'll just, I'll just go talk and do the talking I'm being dressed right now. [00:07:32] Jess Ryan: That's accurate. That sounds about right. [00:07:35] Joe White: So I appreciate you for consciously making that space. And the podcast feels like that to me. Yeah. It feels like a very safe space to. Say silly and theorize about other people's business models and what have [00:07:48] Jess Ryan: you, which is not what we did this week. [00:07:51] Joe White: No, we got an expert. [00:07:54] Jess Ryan: We did it guys. We are not going to tell you about something. We don't [00:08:00] understand that. [00:08:05] Jess Ryan: We have an awesome guest for you this week. Eric Neil, who is the founder of third act digital and, uh, whom we met in clubhouse, he popped into our, uh, news of the week in tech and theater clubhouse show. I don't [00:08:17] Joe White: know, a few months ago. Yeah. Clubhouse, the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah. And third act digital. [00:08:22] Joe White: Really, really cool. It's an NFT marketplace, but not just any NFT marketplace. It's theater's first NFT marketplace. [00:08:29] Jess Ryan: Bless you doing the Lord's work, [00:08:32] Joe White: doing the hard, hard work of pulling people, kicking and screaming into the future, into the present, into the very slight past, maybe [00:08:43] Jess Ryan: what is time as for [00:08:45] Joe White: usual. [00:08:46] Joe White: That's amazing. I mean, in addition to that, I mean, Uh, brilliant guy, extremely well-spoken very thoughtful and knowledgeable about the space. You can feel the care and consideration he puts into his words and how much thought he's put into this. Uh, and he's a Tony nominated producer, [00:09:00] you know, no big [00:09:00] Jess Ryan: deal day. [00:09:00] Jess Ryan: No, no, that's fine. Yeah. And he describes third act digital as where the theater goes, uh, to collect. Um, so we thought we'd have him on to. Be an expert in actually explain an FTS in a manner in which someone can understand it, which is not a skillset Joe or I possess, I feel like be to talk to us about third act and sort of through that lens, you know, how he sees theater developing in tandem with these new technologies. [00:09:32] Jess Ryan: Um, and, and third, what his vision for a beautiful future is where theater and technology is intersecting a little more frequently than it currently is. What was your favorite thing about the chat Joe? Well, [00:09:46] Joe White: besides just not having to pretend to be the expert, because you're not just kind of hand that torch back and forth, like a fricking hot potato. [00:09:55] Joe White: I really, I really liked, uh, when Eric spoke a bit about what he [00:10:00] thinks is coming in the future, it was both tangible and aspirational. Like I could see how we get there, which is like a big problem I have when I'm thinking about like, what is coming what's happening. It's like the steps that we take to get there. [00:10:11] Joe White: And he has, he has steps. He's got a vision for it, but it also feels like incredibly aspirational, uh, especially within the theater community, but just in the, sort of the, the [00:10:20] Jess Ryan: NFT space. Generally, I'd be very curious to hear after you listened to this episode, especially if you're not into NFTs and blockchain and all of this craziness, like, I'd be curious to hear what you think after you listened to this. [00:10:34] Jess Ryan: And if it. Inspires any excitement in you or, you know, if it doesn't like, cause I think that's like what we're all sort of curious about in the theater is, is, is this going to be interesting enough for people who don't already have that technology hook to want to, to get into it? And I think what Eric does really well in this conversation, you'll tell me if you think I'm right or not, everyone is, is sort of get at or underneath.[00:11:00] [00:11:00] Jess Ryan: The it's technology that's know validated by crowd and all the nerd shit. And talk a little bit about like, why this could actually matter to us as a committee. [00:11:10] Joe White: I'm excited to hear what people say. Me too, should tweet at us. [00:11:15] Jess Ryan: All right. Well enough from the armchair hot potato experts, we hope you enjoy getting together with us. [00:11:20] Jess Ryan: Please enjoy this episode of the get together with Eric Neil. [00:11:30] Jess Ryan: We're super excited to talk to you cause, um, we often joke that and FTS are like, If you like go back and listen to this podcast, you know, a year and a half ago, we're both like big blockchain entities. And then like slowly, every week we're like, oh no, we're talking about NFTs again. And like blockchain management of IP and like all of that good stuff. [00:11:51] Jess Ryan: That of course, yeah. It's super exciting. So thanks for coming and joining us as a real expert instead of Joe and I is armchair expert. [00:11:59] Eric Neal: [00:12:00] I love it. Thank you so much for [00:12:01] Jess Ryan: having me. You want to tell everybody a little bit about yourself and us also, because we don't know [00:12:05] Eric Neal: each other very well. Yeah. Oh gosh. [00:12:07] Eric Neal: Yeah, for sure. Um, so thank you so much for having me on the show. My name is Eric Neil. I am the founder of third act, uh, theaters first NFT markets. Uh, before this, I was involved in an agency founder on the advertising side and do a fair amount of marketing within Broadway and theater. And I've been a co-pro before, as well on Broadway. [00:12:28] Eric Neal: And that kind of really got me into this space and the commercial theater, uh, And third act was founded at the top of last year, kind of at the peak of pandemic and disruption within the industry, as well as the same time that NFTs and crypto were really coming into the forefront of mass culture. Um, obviously it's been around for many years before that, but just mass adoption was I found was happening in a really fast pace last year. [00:12:55] Jess Ryan: That's really exciting. I wonder the thing I've been wondering the most about [00:13:00] is like, I mean, I know why you picked theater to work in this space because you love theater and you are doing copra is like, he said all the good stuff that you just said, but there's like a lot of different ways to explore NFT marketplaces and those business models. [00:13:11] Jess Ryan: And so I was curious and you're early, right? You're so early, particularly in the theater. Um, so I was just curious, like why, why the theater and why third act, even though it's early. [00:13:25] Eric Neal: There's this really fantastic William Gibson quote that I love that is the future's already here. It's just not evenly distributed. [00:13:32] Eric Neal: I love that quote. I think it's so profound. I think he's credited with, with the first instance of, um, the word cyberspace, I believe so like pretty tech, tech, futurist. Um, and I saw that time and time again with theater, it was. Late to the party with technology and is still lagging and things like streaming and has some fairly archaic, um, rights models that are, I think are kind of inhibit. [00:13:56] Eric Neal: And I wanted to, uh, help theater come back stronger [00:14:00] than ever. Um, in the middle of the pandemic, I thought this is a time when this industry will have a little bit more time than usual on its hands, and let's use it to build back better and, uh, and put the theater in the forefront. And it's something that I've in terms of technology and that's something I've never seen done before. [00:14:16] Eric Neal: So I think. This is as good a time as any, so let's [00:14:19] Joe White: do it. That's very, very cool. One of the things I've been thinking about a time, because if you've listened to the podcast, Justin and Joe, quite often about the fact that theater feels like it's behind perpetually behind willfully behind like trying to be [00:14:33] Eric Neal: proud, proudly, proudly [00:14:35] Joe White: behind. [00:14:36] Joe White: Um, and so as someone who has started a company that is forcing theater to catch up a bit to move ahead, to think ahead, like how, how are. Getting that to happen, you know, whether it be through adoption of your company or the concept of collectibles in the NFT space, like what, what's your theory of the case right now to actually get them to how to get the theater community to, to buy in? [00:14:59] Eric Neal: Yeah, I [00:15:00] think the benefits for theater are you have a new way to engage fans. You have a new audience, you can reach with crypto and NFTs and you have a new revenue stream. This is a net new space. There's so much new, uh, potential here. So that's really the first place we start. There's always a marketing story to be told, um, because I have a background in theater, I think like that a little bit more than, than not always the technology first, because I want it to integrate with the story and be right for the production and right for the fans. [00:15:32] Eric Neal: And I think. As long as you're creating with the fan and the production and you know, the broader impact on the planet in mind, you're going to make a pretty good product. So we approached it with that in mind, we're making a really consciously created marketplace. Uh, we're we're eco friendly. We are thinking about the fan experience and we're crediting creators and in compensating them equity equitably as well. [00:15:59] Jess Ryan: I want to come [00:16:00] back to that, uh, eco-friendly thing. Cause I wanted to ask you about that. But before I do, I also just realized, as I was listening to you talk about this, we have a very good chance for someone that's not us who are not experts to explain and FTS. And like in the, in light of third act probably, or in context would be helpful for just for folks who are listening that are maybe more on the theater side and don't have as much experience. [00:16:21] Jess Ryan: So. Would you mind taking up the mantle and explaining a little bit about what an enough T is and then how and what is happening on third acts markets. [00:16:30] Eric Neal: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so an NFT is a digital collectible that is, uh, unique and, um, can be distinguished from its peer. So if you consider it like a digital trading card, digital trading cards have a, one of one serial code. [00:16:48] Eric Neal: There is only one instance of that card in existing. And the technology that enables the NFT to actually exist and not just be a JPEG online is the blockchain. So this is a public ledger [00:17:00] or a public record of all the transactions taking place. And that effectively gives a undisputed record of the NFT. [00:17:08] Eric Neal: So you can assure its authenticity where it's coming from, what hands it's passed through and attest to its value. And often. [00:17:17] Jess Ryan: That was so much better [00:17:18] Joe White: than anything we've ever. Who's so good. So succinct. And how many times have you been asked to do that? Like everywhere you show up and they're like, Hey, could you just do it over just one more time? [00:17:25] Eric Neal: Just one more time. I love it. Every time I'm trying to see, it's like, you know, it's like a comedy big, can I tweak a word here or there can say it more succinctly. So very nice. [00:17:33] Joe White: Very, very like explaining to me like I'm five, like a of you haven't nailed it. Thank you. So just as like second part of that question, like how, how would it actually work? [00:17:45] Joe White: You know, if I was a, if I am a theater goer, and there is the option for me to, to have a little piece of that story, but digitally and inside of a, I don't know, a wallet or this or that, like, how am I actually doing it? What's tangible inside of. [00:17:59] Eric Neal: Yeah, so you're [00:18:00] doing it right in third act and kind of actually, this is something I meant to speak to in your previous question, which is around why feeder and our approach to the marketplace is we've worked really hard to make crypto and NFTs backwards. [00:18:14] Eric Neal: It's a really great technology. I feel like the gap for people to get in is a little bit too big. So we did a lot of work to narrow that gap and allow people to get in way more accessibly. And so when you go into third act, you can sign up with your email with Twitter, um, which email login, whatever that may be. [00:18:32] Eric Neal: And you can create a wallet that's linked right to your account with one click and it's accessible via the password. So you don't have to go to another third party. You don't have to download an extension and we've integrated Stripe, super secure. Accessible payment partners. So all NFTs can be purchased via credit card, um, and funds can be deposited and withdrawn via credit card, uh, pretty much instantly. [00:18:54] Eric Neal: So that's what we've done to make it super accessible and easy for people to get. And then on the platform, we [00:19:00] have a number of collections. We've started with some small collections to test out different models and work with new productions in brand new ways and kind of pioneer this space. There are very few case studies out there to date. [00:19:10] Eric Neal: So we're kind of, um, I know there's some eyes on us from, from people out there who want to get in here and are probably, uh, learning from what we're doing. And we think it's fantastic. We want to accelerate the adoption of this technology in this space. We think it's a net positive for everybody. The more that are getting involved. [00:19:26] Eric Neal: Um, no matter what marketplace or method they're getting into, we've just done a lot of work to make it as easy as possible to get into ours. [00:19:34] Jess Ryan: Who's we tell us about your company. [00:19:36] Eric Neal: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we're a team, a mighty band of, um, of hopeful technologists and, uh, and feeder lovers, um, you know, the Knights of Camelot coming to web three. [00:19:49] Eric Neal: Um, yeah, but everybody that I spoke with, it was really interesting. I, I leaned really hard into the technology side because I wanted to make sure we had that expertise. So we [00:20:00] have lead engineers back end engineers, um, and a development team that that's really well versed in kind of the full stack of web develop in general. [00:20:08] Eric Neal: And I quickly realized that there's not a ton of experience, really mature experience on the crypto side, it was so new and a lot of developers that I was speaking with wanting to get into this space, but I loved having a shared excitement, um, on the tech side as well. Um, and as I continued to kind of find these really, you know, keen people who had the right attitude and mindsets and wanted to pioneer something, um, people with theater experience also kind of popped up within our development team. [00:20:35] Eric Neal: People had, they, you know, some of our core engineers or their parents have been involved in theater, they'd been actors in the past. So it's just interesting how. Theater is such a part of everybody's life. At one point, whether you were kind of in a high school play or you were, your parents are a co-pro or whatever that may be. [00:20:53] Eric Neal: It's, it's really interesting. So we're a team of about eight people. Um, we have development, marketing, um, [00:21:00] uh, production and producing outreach, as well as, uh, Theatrical, um, experience as well. Um, we have a healthy group of advisors, um, ranging from kind of, uh, very experienced theater producers. And in the advertising side on me, Um, and some strong legal counsel too, because we need that. [00:21:18] Eric Neal: And I'm sure you have some, some questions around how that works too. Oh my [00:21:22] Joe White: God. I want to jump in for a second on that, the type of person that you just described, because I think that is that's my theory of the case as to how anything is going to change. And like the theater live performance space is that people have. [00:21:36] Joe White: In love with it invested in it have worked in it in some capacity or just, you know, been part of it in some capacity, but went somewhere else first, you know, became the technologies, learn full stack development, like acquired some set of skills that they're now going to bring back into that, that the electrical world and be like, Hey, this is going to work. [00:21:52] Joe White: And I think if there's enough of those people and it feels like there's more and more and more. They'll continue to push it forward and get, you [00:22:00] know, drive new adoption inside of it. So kudos to you and grabbing that team and finding the people who are sort of right to make that happen. [00:22:06] Eric Neal: Oh yeah. It's been such a great adventure to find the right people. [00:22:11] Eric Neal: And even when we do talks on Twitter and within the more crypto native community, I'm finding that this is. Project. And this platform feels like a breath of fresh air to them because they've never seen IP like this within their network and on the platform. It's a lot of, it's, it's a lot of, kind of an insular artists' community, um, of people that are very knowledgeable or kind of gee crypto people, or OGN FTE people that are making their own artwork. [00:22:41] Eric Neal: And that's fantastic. But I think the value proposition that we have. To the base technology to the blockchain was we're going to broaden your audience. And we're going to bring new people into this space, which is what you need to grow and get exposure. And for us, we want access to the technology and we want access to what it affords. [00:22:59] Eric Neal: And so it was [00:23:00] a really co beneficial kind of exchange. And so we're on a. Personnel side we're heavily invested in by the, uh, technology as well. Our base blockchain is Hadera hash graph and they've issued us a grant as well. We're a technology grant recipient to help build the platform. Um, so we have a really great relationship. [00:23:21] Jess Ryan: This is my opportunity to ask about era and, uh, the sort of like, uh, energy efficiency, right? There's an energy efficiency of this particular blockchain technology. Sorry. Y'all we're going to get real nerdy here for a second. [00:23:32] Eric Neal: No, it's important. It's important. Um, yeah, I mean, even when we post on social media today, and if we're working with people who are promoting the platform, there's a lot of assumptions made about NFTs in general. [00:23:45] Eric Neal: It's important to note that they're not all made equal. It really depends where you meant and how you meant that just drives the impact of the asset on the world, basically. And it's wild to think that we're, we're talking about digital images and [00:24:00] things on our phone, but the impact on the earth is coming up more and more frequently. [00:24:03] Eric Neal: And I think it's, it's great. It's just surprisingly, it's surprising. Um, we were really intentional. We really built this marketplace consciously to be eco-friendly. And I think if we wanted to, you know, initially the first place you're going to look is, is a theory, um, to get involved with, because it's the most popular right now, but I very quickly realized that it was just not a good, it's not a good look for the environment. [00:24:28] Eric Neal: And I thought with working with a very conscious crowd that, you know, theater might be behind on technology, but I think be. The group can be very progressive when it comes to, um, how we should behave. And I think the, the ideals of the community are very aspirational. So I think to be eco-friendly, it keeps us to a high standard working with that, um, uh, in this industry in mind. [00:24:50] Eric Neal: So Hadera hash graph is an alternative to a blockchain is a hash graph that, uh, Supply all the same benefits that a blockchain 10 without any of [00:25:00] the eco impact. So it's around 10,000 times as efficient as something like Ethereum or Bitcoin. They're actually a carbon negative company. In addition to being incredibly efficient, they also buy into carbon offsets and they do things like they just announced a sustainability fund of a hundred million dollar. [00:25:18] Eric Neal: Specifically for eco-friendly ventures, so projects that want to use their technology for green initiatives. Um, so I think that's just the kind of company that we wanted to partner with and saw a lot of, um, principles that we agreed with when we left. [00:25:34] Joe White: Can we, can we throw some more, uh, tasks for the expert, uh, at you? [00:25:38] Eric Neal: Could you sort of want me to call them [00:25:42] Joe White: pretty quickly? Just explain sort of, um, yeah. Why gas fees and why those, uh, the sorts of processing power that goes into mining a Bitcoin or, you know, um, validating transactions. Is it. [00:25:54] Eric Neal: Yeah, essentially the blockchain, how it's traditionally set up is kind of like a single file [00:26:00] line. [00:26:00] Eric Neal: So it can only process a certain amount of transactions at a time. And it's, it's generally around 12 transactions. I think the last time I checked on Ethereum, I think Bitcoin is around three transactions per second. Uh Idera is 10. Over 10,000 transactions per second. So what happens is it's basically the ACU. [00:26:19] Eric Neal: If we want to use a great fear analogy, it's basically a queue to get your ticket punched for the transaction to occur, and then you have people paying to cut the line. So that's where the gas fees come in to, uh, to make things more expensive. And I think last I checked to mint. Something on Ethereum is around $75. [00:26:36] Eric Neal: So going into some of the pricing of the assets and collectibles, we tend to lean towards. Theater merchandise costs, ones that were things that were familiar with $10, $20, $50 for these kinds of collectibles. And it just didn't make sense to have to pay $75 to get even a $20 collectible than that. Just it's just a tough proposition. [00:26:58] Eric Neal: So thankfully we found [00:27:00] Hodara and they saw what we were trying to do. And the math worked so and minty fees. Sorry. Yeah. Minty fees, mentee fees, essentially on Hadera are a fraction of a penny. We're waiving them initially. So it's. Go and have fun and, um, yeah, it's, it's a great place to start. [00:27:17] Jess Ryan: Okay. So I'm a producer on blimp lamb. [00:27:22] Jess Ryan: Miranda's show, show Hamilton. And you're, you're trying to, you're trying to tell me why this is probably a terrible idea because they're so successful. They would, of course be like, yes. Um, so you're, you're selling me on third. But like, not like I I'm selling a product, like literally explaining to theater people why we should, I should work with third acts. [00:27:44] Jess Ryan: So like, I'm wondering what, cause you've said a little bit about it, but like in plain terms, like if you're talking to a theater person, you know, or a producer, why I would do it and how I would do it back to the legal stuff, you know, as a producer, [00:27:58] Eric Neal: why you would do it. [00:28:00] I think I touched on it before. Very briefly. [00:28:03] Eric Neal: I think you're looking at. Engaging your existing audience in a new way. This is a new type of asset, a new collectible. If there's fandom around your show, that's a great piece. That's a great place to start. The next piece would be reaching a new audience. There's a growing crypto and NFT, uh, community. I think last year alone, there were 250 million people that had purchased something via crypto just last year. [00:28:30] Eric Neal: And then you've got the revenue potential. I think all of this is kind of over scored by a really strong marketing story. If you launch a collection that coincides with the story of your ship. So I like to lead with the story. That's where my three theater brain starts and lead with the story and not just the PR story, but the story you're telling on the stage. [00:28:58] Eric Neal: And how can you give [00:29:00] somebody a souvenir or a momentum. That coincides with it. Is it a takeaway, is it something that gives you access to the show? Is it something that's triggered at the event? There are a few things that I think can heighten the theater experience and compliment it and still instill. [00:29:18] Eric Neal: And so that's where I would start without knowing specifically what the show would be a sham a lot. I'm really looking forward to it by the way. Um, you're welcome. Yeah, I think I would, I would start there with, with how the story, how it makes sense for the story to, to exist in this new stage, this, this platform of web three. [00:29:39] Eric Neal: Uh, and then you've got the new crypto audience. You've got your audience to engage and you've got the revenue. Is that specific enough? No [00:29:47] Joe White: more specific? No, it [00:29:49] Eric Neal: was incredible. Don't be afraid to say that I always want to start more broad and if there are more specific, we can go into the weeds if we want and [00:29:55] Joe White: not as good. [00:29:56] Joe White: Well, let me, let me give this space for, just to actually answer that question of, do you want him to go more [00:30:00] specific? Yeah, go for it. Um, I was just thinking through the lens of sort of, yeah. Audience growth and like the cross-pollination of audiences. You know, my, my background is in like the YouTube space and early on, like one of the big. [00:30:14] Joe White: Benefits of like these YouTube multi-channel networks was creators. Just kind of like cross-pollinating audiences. And that was a lot of the, like really early growth of like YouTube content creator space. And it feels similar where it's like, oh, you've got the crypto people. You've got theater people. [00:30:26] Joe White: You've got the people who kind of sit in the middle, like us. Like how we cross-pollinating these two worlds. And I was like, thinking more about like, how, how y'all are doing that beyond just giving people the ability to purchase things for, for a show that they are interested in. Like, are there other things that you're like very consciously doing to breakthrough and, and get new audience adoption and, or cross-pollinate those audiences? [00:30:47] Eric Neal: Yeah. That's. We learned that pretty quickly and pretty early, that that was so important to build the community and to, to scale it. The [00:31:00] one main thing that we do is we have a really active blog, blog.fedex.digital, where almost every week we're spotlighting another creator or. Uh, who's on our platform or has their own project. [00:31:11] Eric Neal: And they talk about how they got into the space, their first NFT, what artists excite them and what they're doing. And the interesting thing between all of them is they all have a project that they're doing on their own in this space, which I found to be really exciting. And so some of them are, I think our last one, um, I believe his name was Josh was on it. [00:31:30] Eric Neal: And, uh, he talked about how. Uh, theater VR project that he's working on. I thought it was so great that he was in theater before that address was on. And she's has a Brazilian theater group that she's working with in, in playing with metaverse ideas. I think it's giving people the space to share their own ideas and what they're doing. [00:31:49] Eric Neal: And as third act, we consider ourselves more of a stage and a platform. So it's not always about us. It's for collectors to go on there and show off their stuff, show off their own projects. [00:32:00] Um, even if they're on competing chains or things like that, I think it's just the community is going to be the thing that really helps us grow and knowing that we're not being too. [00:32:09] Eric Neal: There's not censorship involved with, uh, with people promoting what they want to. So that's been really helpful for us. Uh, the Hadera community has been super welcoming, uh, really appreciate all the times that they're shouting us out. And re-tweeting [00:32:22] Jess Ryan: us. It's funny. It's something Joe says a lot is. The idea of trustless. [00:32:26] Jess Ryan: Technology only matters if you like the community you keep, which of course is like something very near and dear to us working in live digital and the idea of building communities through that. But I kept thinking about that when you were talking about that, that even though you're a tech platform, I don't think I expected to hear it. [00:32:44] Jess Ryan: Come out, even with your platform and an NFT marketplace, but that it's still yeah, because we talk about it in the light of Dow is a lot and, you know, things where people actually have to work together rather than purchase, but it's, it really feels like it's everywhere inside web three, that it's [00:33:00] the, this killer combo of trustless technology. [00:33:03] Jess Ryan: Community you care about, like you say, Joe, [00:33:06] Joe White: I might've might've tweeted something like that today. My first tweet in like eight years. [00:33:10] Eric Neal: Oh, wow. Sounds like a revival. [00:33:14] Joe White: I was trying to go to work my way into a new head of team drop. There you go. And to get on the mint list, I have to tweet something at them [00:33:23] Jess Ryan: to be fair. [00:33:23] Jess Ryan: You do say to that effect, you say you talk about that a lot. I think that's really interesting. I mean, how does that. How does that work into your, your plans? Did you, did you launch this to just be straight up technology company? Like I know you just said that, you know, you consider yourself a little more of a stage. [00:33:40] Jess Ryan: Is it sort of like a hybrid venture then in that case? [00:33:45] Eric Neal: Yeah, I think we, we want to be the destination where theater collects, whether that be digital assets or a community. I think we want a mix of both and that's, what's really gonna. Um, a driver for it, for our success and for the community's benefit for [00:34:00] the user experience. [00:34:01] Eric Neal: As long as there are people there and it's active and alive, and you're able to show off your personality and connect with like-minded people who maybe you didn't know yesterday, that's a win for everybody. The more the brand can connect people. That's pretty much all I want. [00:34:15] Jess Ryan: It's a good, it's a good thing to want. [00:34:17] Jess Ryan: What's. So when you have a project with a, with a theater theatrical show, are you, do you have a team that's or you, or whomever that's working to figure out what the NFTs actually are, or are the ad agencies coming to you with those ideas already? How does that. [00:34:33] Eric Neal: Yeah. So we have, um, as I mentioned before, I I'm an agency owners and we have internal resources. [00:34:39] Eric Neal: We have artists in house and on roster from graphic designers, 3d animators, um, audio editors, et cetera. And we really work hard to determine what the assets are. What do they look like? How do they function? What kind of utility do they have? And that's kind of what we're about. Uh, marketplace and a service. [00:34:58] Eric Neal: So [00:35:00] we're, you know, a very easy place to go on and mint a collection and put it out there, very inexpensively and efficiently. But I also realized really early in conversations with producers that this is a whole new space. The most people don't have the bandwidth to figure it out, let alone the people to execute on it. [00:35:17] Eric Neal: So that's why we have that kind of execution arm and that thinking creative partner arm to us that, uh, can help determine what the specific assets are and how they work in your, your, your marketing plan and your show's business plan. [00:35:30] Jess Ryan: Have you always been an entrepreneur? Like, did you always want to, you know, walk down this. [00:35:37] Eric Neal: Um, I don't know, I'd say I'm on, I've always been entrepreneurial. Um, I mean, I, I built an agency that's now five years old, so that was definitely my first, you know, entrepreneur venture. Um, and then working in advertising as well. I think I was always just pushing more entrepreneurial ideas. Gravitate towards that. [00:35:57] Eric Neal: And I liked things that I had to do myself more [00:36:00] and have more autonomy over what I was building and creating. So, um, yeah, maybe it's more of an attitude. That's what I've leaned towards. Yeah. [00:36:09] Joe White: I love that. Nested in your answer is this like cultural shift away from like the entrepreneur bro vibe? Like, I feel like for years that was, yeah. [00:36:19] Joe White: The R uh, I don't know what the right word is for it, but just like, yeah, the I'm a, I'm an entrepreneur and that's my calling sort of vibe. And I, I feel that way. I felt it in your answer that you're like, I'm entrepreneurial. I do entrepreneurial, please. Don't label me. [00:36:39] Eric Neal: Maybe, you know, I'm watching we crash. [00:36:40] Eric Neal: So maybe that's why I'm pushing away from that, that [00:36:43] Jess Ryan: stop. I couldn't, I got three episodes in and I, I think it's like the, the being a female leader, I just like, couldn't watch him get yessed anymore. And I know that holds, I know how it is, you know what I mean? Oh man. Yeah. [00:37:00] Well, I think that actually kind of connects through to, to what I was just going to ask you, like, why what's your take on why there. [00:37:06] Jess Ryan: It's so much connection between theater, artists, or theater people in the theater. And. I mean, I don't want to use the word entrepreneur anymore conscious about it, but you know what I mean? Like, as we are seeing more and more and more, we talked to Chris Ashworth, the founder of Q lab is a fucking actor as well. [00:37:26] Jess Ryan: Right? Like there's the Randi, Zuckerberg loves the theater and would rather be on a stage. I think, you know, um, at any given moment, like, what is that crossover? What are those things that are in common with being an entrepreneurial. And being a, a theatrical artist designer, whatever it is, producer, [00:37:46] Eric Neal: I think it's in the DNA of anybody who's active in the space. [00:37:49] Eric Neal: I think you have to be really active and proactive person and you have to advocate for your project and you have to go forge new relationships and think that. It's part [00:38:00] of being in the industry. It's just being entrepreneurial, making something for yourself. And it is very open. It's not to say it's easy, but it is very open and it can be entirely on you to put together your next show or your next company or your next, whatever that may be. [00:38:15] Jess Ryan: Yeah. I agree. I only wish that like, Been so hidden for so many years. Like I've been in this business for, you know, I don't know, 20 something years now. And like, I feel like I only started finding all these people that we're talking about across like the last five years, like in, in, in sort of like good standing. [00:38:33] Jess Ryan: But, uh, I guess I'm just, I'm grateful anyway, that it's starting to like come to light. [00:38:39] Eric Neal: And how long have you been doing the podcast for how long has it been running? [00:38:44] Jess Ryan: You're a year and a half. I think we're just [00:38:47] Joe White: over 50 episodes. [00:38:48] Eric Neal: Yeah. Okay. And before that, had you done other podcasts, did you find that that kind of exploded your network and did that make you look at things differently? [00:38:55] Eric Neal: Like flipping it? I know [00:38:58] Jess Ryan: that's a good question for Joe. I had done [00:39:00] another podcast and all those things you just said, it kind of went into high. Um, COVID uh, cause my podcast co-host is a actor, a really well known actor in on the Broadway, on the Broadway. Um, and as you might've imagined, his life went into disarray as COVID, but for us, like it changed everything right on that podcast, being able to just contact anybody and everybody who had great communities built around the smart work that they did was. [00:39:28] Jess Ryan: Totally life-changing and that's when I told this one that we had to do one. Well, what, what's it been like for you, Joe? So [00:39:35] Joe White: this is my first podcast, or at least first time on this side, although I guess that means that that makes it sound like I've been on the other side. This is my first time doing anything inside of it or around a podcast. [00:39:46] Joe White: And I love it. One justice extremely well-prepared and helps us set up its space for. It to be a comfortable experience. Um, but also there's just like, I've got more things to say than I realized. And that's actually where the podcast was born out [00:40:00] of Jess. And I would do a clubhouse show, uh, back when clubhouse has really taken off. [00:40:04] Joe White: That's how we met Eric. Oh yeah, we were there. Um, and then we would like, the clubhouse show would end and Jess, and I would just sit there and talk for another 30 minutes about. Thinking about what we had just read the people we had spoken to and we're like, should we just record this and turn it into a podcast? [00:40:19] Joe White: And here we are 50 plus episodes later coming back around and hanging out with you again. [00:40:24] Eric Neal: That's amazing. Congrats. It's a it's. It's great to hear a story come up like that. So organically, you guys clearly have chemistry. It's great. Oh, [00:40:33] Jess Ryan: thanks. I think it's like very similar to the way you were describing, you know, your vision for how your building third act, right? [00:40:39] Jess Ryan: It's like for us, this podcast. The knock on effect is nice, which is like, you know, we build a great network and deeper relationships with that network, but really it exists kind of to build a community because similarly to the way you were saying, you, you enjoy curating projects, even [00:41:00] if they're on competing platforms, you know, or whatever, or technologies, not platforms. [00:41:05] Jess Ryan: That's kind of how we feel about anyone working in this sort of like intersection between technology and the arts and live digital. Is that like, if the more likely it's more likely for us all to succeed, if we know each other and we care about each other and we're educated about each other's work, you know, and we're helping other folks, I E all y'all that are listening, like be introduced to all those people, you know? [00:41:28] Eric Neal: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I definitely see the parallels there. It's. The community first mindset is a, is not lost on me. I think it really resonates with a lot of people and it's, and it's needed more than ever. Maybe it was the past two years that were like, like, damn, I really want to be more social and a, and I'll do it by any means necessary. [00:41:46] Eric Neal: Let's let's hop on the zoom. Let's do the podcast chat, whatever that may be and people stick around and you can formalize it and professionalize it. And, uh, Yeah. There's never been more opportunity. Things like this have been, are more accessible in a [00:42:00] great way. I think [00:42:01] Jess Ryan: about it a little bit, like making the theater company to be perfectly honest with you. [00:42:04] Jess Ryan: Like I remember being out to lunch with a artistic director a few years ago before COVID that was like, are you sure you don't want to take over a theater? But no, absolutely not. No way. Cause like, I don't understand anything about like the bureaucracy and there's just so many things feel like not a great fit for me. [00:42:23] Jess Ryan: Um, but this is like the version of building a theater company that I love, you know what I mean? It's a little, you know, it's a little riff on that idea, but that's what it feels like to me every day is like building a little theater company of peak humans. I love who are really good at whatever it is that they do that we get to spend, you know, little pockets of time was like going to summer stock. [00:42:42] Jess Ryan: You know, maybe we'll do a project with third act and maybe we'll do this with marquee digital or whatever it is. It's actually really similar. I think. [00:42:51] Joe White: We should tokenize all of our favorite companies, mint them using third and then give to them to [00:43:00] ourselves. [00:43:03] Jess Ryan: Um, you wrote a, your Q of the day. We always ask everybody, what question do you wish you were getting asked more often and you wrote who should be paying more attention to this space, Eric. And so I'm very curious about w w who should be paying more attention to this space. [00:43:18] Eric Neal: Yeah, I inflicted on that maybe a little bit too much. [00:43:21] Eric Neal: I was like, you know, I thought about it a lot. And I was like, I want to be a simple, simple question, but I, you know what I feel very well-spoken I don't feel like there's too much left unsaid. There's not too many questions on Diane for us here. So I was like, okay, this is maybe a good time to get some attention from a group or somebody here. [00:43:39] Eric Neal: So, um, I think. Producers are looking all over this space already. I think if you talk to a lot of them, they're, they're, you know, they've heard of it. They've probably never been approached by us or somebody else or a combination. Um, I think that there are the, the lesser seen, um, groups [00:44:00] within theater that should be looking at this space. [00:44:04] Eric Neal: I think, um, whether it be minorities, um, uh, groups that perform onstage or it be lesser seen in terms of behind the scenes, the professions as well should be looking at this space because we certainly are and how to integrate them as well. This is not just around, um, kind of business as usual and, and how the tradition. [00:44:27] Eric Neal: Um, pay structures have been distributed in the past. We're looking to make it more equitable and make the industry more equitable for more people. So if you're in theater at all and you don't feel, and you hear that, even hear this podcast and don't feel like it's speaking to you, I want to talk to you because I think there is a place for you here. [00:44:45] Eric Neal: I know that's super wide open, but I think. We're starting with the tip of the iceberg and in big commercial shows and actors and celebrities that people know and are familiar with the prove out the platform and to get attention and to build the base. [00:45:00] But everybody, um, is welcome. And I think that everybody should take a look at, at how they can be integrated. [00:45:05] Eric Neal: And if not, I would love to chat about it specifically, um, at all points, uh, of, uh, roles or positions within the theater producing. [00:45:16] Joe White: What a perfect call to action for the audience here. That's really good. [00:45:21] Jess Ryan: I assure you if you're listening, like we're watching we're all on screen and like Eric you're, you're very, uh, I actually don't know what the right descriptive phrases you're. [00:45:32] Jess Ryan: I mean, you're very sure footed in your speaking about all this, but like, it is so clear that you're not, you know, rattling off a script or something that you've said. I mean, you've probably said a version of this, like you said, at the beginning a million times, but you know what I mean? Like it's a it's it's yeah. [00:45:48] Jess Ryan: Not everyone is so sort of like surefooted, that's the word I'm going to phrase I'm going to use as you all have been. Episode, [00:45:54] Eric Neal: you know, I've, I, I really appreciate that. And it's a, it's high praise coming from. I know, you know, you [00:46:00] guys talked to a lot of people, so it is high praise and I appreciate it. I would say, uh, sometimes I feel like I'm stumbling over my words. [00:46:06] Eric Neal: I've thought a lot about the principles of the company, but not then the questions kind of. Forced me to go back to them and I'm trying to make it conversational, but I've thought a lot about the principles. And I think this is a very intentionally formed company and platforms. So the answers are there. [00:46:22] Eric Neal: I just need maybe a minute or two to form the sentence. [00:46:27] Jess Ryan: Um, okay. So as we're running towards the end of this, I'm curious, what, what does a successful third act digital look like? Two years from now. I don't know, five, whatever you want to two and five and 10. What, what, what is, um, yeah, what are, what are wins for you? [00:46:47] Eric Neal: It gets wider adoption through the industry, major shows, um, being able to access the platform super easily and mint on their own behalf. And. You know, more [00:47:00] self-serve model, which is what we're working towards. I think on the fan side, it's acceptance of NFTs as, as a token, as a souvenir. Uh, and then a little bit of an evolution of the technology as well. [00:47:14] Eric Neal: Where, what can it do and how else can we use it? How else can we integrate it into a show? I would love to see it be more integrated into the theater going experience from when. See the ad on Instagram or you're browsing the tickets online and you buy your tickets. And then how does that NFT integrate at different touch points along the journey? [00:47:33] Eric Neal: I would love to see that be more and more sophisticated in a couple. And we have some ideas and some plans in place with, with productions we're talking with, so that there'll be some great case studies out there. And ultimately I hope that shows take upon themselves to do more of their own and try to run with it. [00:47:49] Eric Neal: And again, just trying to accelerate the adoption of technology here. So the more. That feeder does this the better it is for everybody. We'll have more information to work with. We'll have more case studies, [00:48:00] we'll have more audience members that are familiar with the platform and, and hopefully have a really strong community across multiple chains that are looking for this work and showing that feeder fans, uh, Push forward a technology like no other [00:48:15] Jess Ryan: that's recorded. [00:48:16] Jess Ryan: We're going to all come back to that in a couple of years. [00:48:20] Eric Neal: Yeah. Let's show them, let's show them that. You know, I think we all agree that maybe theater is a little bit of a laggard on technology, but I I'd like to shift that. And I'd like to see that change over the next few years and really embrace technology and show, show the sports leagues. [00:48:33] Eric Neal: Uh, Yes, [00:48:37] Jess Ryan: Joe, do you have anything else that you wanted to get around to you before we ask Eric to do all the, you know, good. Where can you find me at stuff? [00:48:44] Joe White: Uh, take it away, Eric. We're going to be fine. [00:48:48] Eric Neal: Are you guys on my space? All right. You can find us at third act. That is our homepage, the marketplace, go explore, check it out, make an account, [00:49:00] uh, see something you like, and you can also check us out at underscore third act or we're very active on Twitter and Instagram. [00:49:08] Eric Neal: So look for that. And then if you want it to catch up on any of our kind of white papers and one-on-one. Weekly roundups. We do plenty of articles on blog dot third act.digital. Uh, and I'm Eric Neil, you can check me out. I think they've got a fairly, fairly active on LinkedIn. I guess you could check me out there. [00:49:25] Eric Neal: Just, yeah. [00:49:26] Jess Ryan: Sweet. We'll [00:49:27] Eric Neal: put all that in the show notes. You guys so much for having me. This was a fantastic interview. You guys are great. Really fun. [00:49:32] Joe White: Great, great. Getting to sit [00:49:39] Jess Ryan: God. Dang it. That was fun. Thanks for listening. Y'all and being part of the get together. [00:49:44] Joe White: The goal of this podcast is to bring people together and to have these important, the conversation. So share this with someone who's a little afraid of the web three cryptos. But he's willing to take that leap if it's on a recommendation. [00:49:56] Jess Ryan: I'm Jess and I'm Joe. We'll see you back here next week.[00:50:00] [00:50:06] Jess Ryan: no [00:50:07] Joe White: goodbyes. I haven't been doing it for the get together. [00:50:10] Jess Ryan: Did you, in fact, did it over mine last week I was on purpose.