We want our folks to use it to create community and dive into youth and credential data in a way that guides them to providing a better service to their students and their campuses. We know the campus credential is a gateway to partnerships, we want folks to know the value of the Campus Card Office.

Welcome to Focus, a podcast dedicated to the business of Higher Education. I'm your host, Heather Richmond. And we will be exploring the challenges and opportunities facing today's higher learning institutions. Today, we caught up with Dawn Thomas, the CEO of NACCU, about the transformations happening with campus IDs. And what's next for unlocking the power of data. Thanks so much for joining me today Dawn.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to speak with the folks at TouchNet. And I just really appreciate your interest in NACCU.

Absolutely. Well, I know that you've been in higher ed roles for a really long time. So can you tell our audience just a little bit more about your background?

Sure, I started out in higher education. After graduating from college, I actually went to work 12 years, mainly in housing on a number of campuses. My last job that I had was at the University of South Carolina where I supervised women's housing. And when I was preparing to leave that position, the actually having a one card, or a student ID that was more than just a plastic card is really just becoming a thing. So I feel like this is coming full circle for me. Following my job at the University of South Carolina, I worked at a different higher ed association for about 18 years, I held five different positions. And I worked there primarily with the folks that that did campus programming, or student leadership on campuses. I had a brief stint at a governmental affairs and lobbying firm and quickly learned that that was not a right fit for me. And then following that, that's actually when I happened across the job for the executive director of NACCU who at that time, my title has since changed, but I've now been with NACCU just over six years. So it's been it's been a great tenure at this point, but we're just beginning to scratch the surface.

Well, it sounds like you're in the right place with your background and definitely figured out you got to still be connected to higher ed, and especially the card side.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's great. Well, speaking of NACCU, can you just expand a little bit on what NACCU is as an organization, the mission and really how you're supporting the vision?

Folks that are familiar with NACCU who really know that the organization started back in the 90s, it was known as National Association for Campus Card Users. We've gone through a few iterations of branding changes, and we're really sticking with NACCU, as opposed to the full title, but it still does a lot of the same thing. We though, need to realize that the industry has changed so much and not because card is not necessarily what is on everybody's campus, you know, now that there's been mobile, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that. But NACCU really wants to focus on helping members leverage the power of the credential on their campus, it does so many things at this point, and really is what we see as the gateway to really providing so many services for students. And it's so crucial that we keep expanding what our view is. NACCU recently went through a new strategic process with the board, and we've revised what our focuses are. So our main areas for NACCU in providing service to the colleges and universities that are members are really, we're there to build knowledge. We do that through whether it's, you know, through research, such as our benchmarking study, or through the NACCU campus profile, but primarily, you see us out there providing education through webinars, local programs, conferences, that type of thing. However, I would be remiss if I didn't say that the primary focus of any association is really connecting members and engagement is everything. I feel like particularly given the last few years engagement has been a strength of NACCU as we focused on just keeping connected with our members, making sure that we're listening, being connected and engaging doesn't mean just doing the same thing over and over, it means hearing what your members are needing. And that's been another main point for NACCU. Obviously, NACCU is all about technology. But one of the things that I feel like is such a growth area for us is the promotion of innovation. And as we are looking to provide the best services for members of NACCU, who really sees that we can be doing better in the area of providing technical information, technology based information and information about access control, and those are really the growth areas that we're seeing at this point, which really kind of ties in with our fourth point that NACCU has been focusing on, and that's navigating technology and data. I just feel like the board was very insightful and intentional in identifying what the priorities for NACCU would be. And this is the direction that we're heading now.

That is great. And you know, this is such a transformational time. I'll say, especially for the, you hate to say card office anymore, because to your point, it's really the credential or the ID because it's powering so much, and it's beyond the card. Well, I know you get an opportunity, again, through connection and your different events that you have with your community of users, you spend a lot of time really working with campus card managers. So what are you hearing from them? And you know, how do you see this evolution of ID management?

So it's really been overwhelming how much is going on. There was an impetus through this, the pandemic and a lot of change was driven by that. But we're really seeing quite an expanse. And in some ways, a dichotomy between where schools are with ID management. NACCU has members that that are still using mag stripe, but then we have members that are seeking to move to mobile, and actually more folks are heading that direction. And given what has happened with COVID, everything's been talked about, there's such huge diversity of challenges across campuses, it really depends where a specific institution is, what their support is from their leadership, who their champions are on campus, and what the needs are of those students. And that's different from campus to campus. The challenge for NACCU really is balancing how to serve the spectrum of campus card members, because everybody's important and their needs are not all the same.

100% I bet that that's a challenge for our software company too, it’s really making sure that we have the right technology for each campus at the pace that they're looking to go. And just as you said, you know, converting to mobile that takes a lot of work. It's a lot of transformation that's happening there. And so definitely want to get into those different kind of groups and how that works. But, again, speaking about mobile and mobile ID, let's talk a little bit about that, and what you're hearing. So at this point, it's been around for a few years. And, you know, maybe what are you hearing? Where's the confusion what are they asking about in terms of actually getting there?

You know, I really think that the understanding of how the mobile ID works, has really taken a big leap over the last year or two. But folks are really struggling to find how do you get support? How do you get campus leaders to buy in? And what's the challenge? The biggest question that many people have is, how do I manage infrastructure changes? You know, especially if there's a large financial obligation to do that many are looking for agnostic options that don't require millions of dollars in new equipment. So they need to identify the best way to move forward without necessarily a complete overhaul of their equipment. Those are the big things that we are hearing. However, I find it quite interesting. We have a number of members that have been successful in getting support because student government associations have been involved and have been requesting the goals to move to mobile. So that is that is really the chatter right now around mobile ID. Additionally, you know, I think there are questions about how to go completely contactless, is that just with purchases or is it with access control. We're seeing some campuses that are really trying to also go completely cashless. And that's the newest thing that we're hearing in the in the recent weeks that we've also seen in the media that's being posted by some of our campuses. So that's what we're hearing right now about what our schools are facing. What’s in their realm.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you know, it's interesting, I was just talking to another school about this cashless concept and just easing the burden of securing cash and all that means and so I think about just my own self, and I'm like cash? I don't ever have cash anywhere, why? Who needs cash when you have Venmo, and you have credit cards, or whatever it may be right. But I hadn't thought about it in that way before in terms of the benefit of actually looking at that security side of the house when it comes to dealing with cash. Well, I know that our team, of course, has been working with campuses on really just assessing the existing systems they have and readers to really help simplify that path forward for mobile ID. And kind of going back to what you said earlier about not all institutions are actually going down the mobile ID path today, right? With such a wide range of systems and technology and all the different schools and their approach, you know, how do you guys that NACCU, who really approached serving all of its members, regardless of what level of technology that they're using?

Well, I think you know, the commonality through all of this is that everyone who has a campus card, they're having a transaction or an interaction on their campus. And the campus card data is where there is potential, the most potential for NACCU, we are saying, okay, it doesn't matter if you're on magstripe, or mobile data is being generated around those transactions happening, we want to teach you how to use that. So that is the big thing that NACCU is focusing on right now is really forget what the end user technology is. Let's talk about what information you're gathering and how you can use that to best help your campus.

Absolutely, that makes a lot of sense. I think that is the one thing too, that we heard through the pandemic. That all of a sudden, there was this reality that oh, card offices have all this data. Oh, you're not just this card office over here anymore, you actually have important information that I want to get my hands on. So, you know, kind of thinking about that, how are you hearing the institutions using this data that is being generated through the card office?

So that's a great question, because actually, we're not hearing that a lot of campuses are using their data. Interestingly, when I've talked with folks, I've heard the, the nightmare stories One member shared a story that stuck with me, she told me that she would spend a large part of a day with 20 spreadsheets on her desk, trying to pull together a few data points to give information to her VP. And personally, I can't imagine having to go through something like that, and doing it quickly and being accurate. But we were also hearing just from members, they're just intimidated by data. So finding out where to start, I think is really a big hurdle. For us, data can be used to help our members create a position of respect for their office. You know, that campus ID can really just help them build bridges with other departments on campus, if they look at the fact that they have a lot of data, and they can be helping these other offices make decisions. We don't like, we've heard, I've heard since I came in, our members are saying a lot of times they get referred to, we're just the campus ID office, when really the crux of the ID is really providing a lot of services. But everybody noticing it doesn't work, it's a very important part about providing great service to students as well as internal customers, staff, other folks on campus.

Absolutely. And it just like you said, the hardest part really is getting started and when you just kind of look at the sea of data. And what all it could mean and how do I even know what to analyze and what to pull forward to then be able to provide up to VPS or board members who are asking. So thinking about that, I think a lot of times it's just a matter of focus, like let's just start with these buckets, I'll call them so what are you kind of what areas do you recommend schools start reviewing when it comes to data?

When I think of the information that we hear from our members most, there's data from just basic card swipes, but also access control, campus recreation. An obvious one is dining. I don't know a campus that doesn't use the campus card for their dining service or declining balance, campus security. There are so many connections it really touches everybody on campus because you need the campus credential to be able to do business.

Yeah, you really do and then when you start to look at that. It's like, okay, I have all this now from all these different places that I am interacting, right? What should they be doing with that information? What would you say they can do for next steps?

So I really like to say that data is not power, but the decision making can be powerful. They need to take a first step and find a way to pull their data consistently. So they can begin to analyze it and make decisions. Really, when our members see how they can use their data, and then share that data with their vice presidents or leadership and see that they can analyze it to build business cases for making improvements on campus. I think that's the game changer here for our NACCU card members.

Yeah, that's very powerful, I think. Now, when we talk about all of this data, is there any concerns about privacy when you're looking at it from an aggregate level?

So that's one thing as we have been talking with our members, they really protect and follow, you know, the rules for FERPA to a tee when utilizing data to make decisions As you said, you want to use the aggregate information and find ways to manipulate that. So you're not drilling down to individual information. There are definite ways to manage that. I think NACCU has got some great ideas for our members, and in that regard, but your goal is really to answer the business questions and not be diving into individual interactions, per se.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. I mean, first off, you have to understand what is the question you're trying to answer? And then grab the appropriate data, at the top level? To answer that question, not down to the individual level. As you guys are thinking about how do we really transform the card offices to building that data culture? How are you getting that information out there to your membership?

So I'm so glad to ask this question. One of the things, I had the opportunity actually to present at a conference a few years back. And during this presentation, I shared the story that I shared with you about someone having 20 spreadsheets spread across their desk. And you know, really had gone back to the point, we know that data holds power. And that NACCU needed to do something to help them bridge that gap. And we had a NACCU member actually in attendance at that event. And what I said resonated with them. So he and I just started informally meeting talking about this as a big picture type of idea about ways that we could help NACCU members use their data in an impactful way. Through these conversations, he understood that to me, you know, spending half your day with 20 spreadsheets on your desk just didn't make sense. How could we make this some type of automated process that could help NACCU members? So we did test pilot runs, started talking a little bit more and created a NACCU Data Summit, which actually, we just had our first event back in June in Pittsburgh. And the goal of this is really to help our members learn how to pull the data from their systems, map it out and be able to drop months’ worth of data in a place that automatically feeds into a dashboard. And we're not talking about using any type of software here, that focused on how there are purchases of software to do this, I wanted something that the lowest common denominator could manage. I didn't want extra technology to have to be involved. And we actually found a way to do this. And with the goal in mind that what about that single person cart office doesn't have extra storage? And has to pull all these reports and things on their own? How do we help them do their jobs and be someone who is really utilizing data to help their campus make decisions. That really framed everything for us and the data summit came alive. And after two years of development, I really feel like NACCU is on to a good path with this where I think we're really going to be able to help our campuses impact campus life and student retention.

That is awesome. I want to go next time. So who do you see kind of thinking about the roles? Maybe card ID and beyond, really benefiting from your data summit who should be thinking about attending?

I actually thought about this and went back and looked at titles of folks that attended the data summit that we had in Pittsburgh. You know, we had a fabulous group, they were all patient and knowing we were learning through this, but what was most amazing is the cross section of titles. We had everyone from card office managers to a director of weapon technology services, to an accountant to a director of business operations and a director of housing. So what we saw was that this is not our typical folks that go to the NACCU annual conference, this is a really a segment that's pulling from many different areas. And we see that folks that are not just card staff are coming to us saying this is something I need to learn about. So that I guess to answer your question, based on what we saw at this first event, I think really it's for anyone who's looked who has and uses the current data for their campus and wants to learn how to elevate how they're impacting and making decisions. And that really sounds very, maybe a little bit rose colored glasses. But I don't know that I would have said that prior to having this first data summit and seeing the range of folks that came out to attend the event.

No, I mean, I think I could see too. And I feel like that's what's happening is that data is becoming a unifier. Because it's bringing so many people across campus who need information and want to figure out how best to articulate that. And so being able to come together and hearing, what is the business side looking for? What is the card office looking for? What is IT looking for? And being able to unify that together? I think that's awesome.

Yes, it was great. And it was such a motivator for us, too. We learned so much through it. And we're tweaking how we view this program. But it also made our minds explode about how we can grow this because so many other use cases came to mind. 

Well, and you know, what's really interesting, we think about data, and a lot of times there's the word that gets used and toss around, which is transaction. But, you know, being a marketer, I say, gosh, we really probably need to look at changing the words and positioning around data. And you know, because transaction can be so related just to the money side, but rather we should talk about the interactions that are happening across campus. And how do we then measure and define the interactions?

That I love how you said that. I will tell you, we have been using the word transaction. And I think we're going to change that with the next phase. So yes, here, like I said that campus ID touches everything on campus, every student, every staff member, every faculty member has a campus ID. The system records, the date and the time and the place for every interaction. And you know that is where the power comes from. Again, like I was saying, there's a great rule to be learned from looking at trends within these interactions. If we go back to get the power, I think this can really empower the card office to be the data hero on our campus. And that's what we're focused on, teaching people how to sell these concepts to their colleagues on campus.

I love that I know you're from the technology side, I always like to say that we are able to empower people to be change agents on their campus. And so now you're able to empower data heroes. And I think that's great. I'm seeing capes, I'm seeing crowns. This is amazing.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. 

Great. So it sounds like you have had great success with the data summits. And so obviously, I'm hoping you're going to say, are you going to have more?

Yes, in fact, so we just opened up registration for a second data summit. And we have a third one that will be announced I would say maybe in the next week or two. So we have a data summit… actually, let me backtrack there. One of the things that NACCU does is we hold NACCU Near You programs that are small, locally based programs to get folks to come in and join us and learn from us and engage with other members who may not. And these are the folks that may not get the chance to attend the annual conference. So we decided as we're planning to do the next data summit that putting a NACCU Near You and a data summit on the same campus would be crucial to the success and guarantee us a little bit more interactivity potentially. So we're having the next data summit November third and fourth at The Ohio State University. So if you're familiar with Josh Wagner, he is serving as our host for that event. But we do realize that we need to go to the west coast as well, because the travel to Ohio may not be possible for a lot of folks. So we have tentative plans right now to have in early February, another data summit on the West Coast. And when I can release the name of that campus, I will do that.

That's awesome. You guys all heard that mark your calendars to get on the list to get one of these data summits. That is great. Again, I think it's just going to be so important. And as you said, at each one you're going to learn more, and then you're really just continuing to educate and define this community to keep everybody connected to what are we doing next? How is this transformation happening? What are we doing from a Card Office perspective? So that that is wonderful. So this has been a great conversation, Dawn, any parting thoughts?

You know, really, for us, the ultimate goal is to make data, something we use actively to guide our operations on campus. We want our folks to use it to create community and dive into using credential data in a way that guides them to providing the better service to their students and their campuses. We know the campus credential is a gateway to partnerships. If we teach NACCU members how to use data, and how to get buy in from VPs and other leadership that they have something impactful to share. We can help them build bridges among other departments, and elevate where they're perceived on campus, which is a goal. We want folks to know the value of the campus card office. Honestly, you know, I hope folks would consider that I don't mean this as a sales pitch. But if one of the things that I thought, okay, maybe I shouldn't have said this, we had a member that attended the NACCU Data Summit, and her response to us was, ‘this was the best training I never knew I needed.’ So if you have any questions about whether or not you should consider, I can provide more testimonials. We really hope folks would look at this and realize that we really want to help you be that data hero on your campus.

I think that's so key too and especially when it comes to data. You don't know what you don't know. And, yeah, so be able to come again, in a community of like-minded people and understand what they're doing what they're being asked, you realize, oh, I didn't know that, too.

Our campus card folks have the key to transforming things on their campus because of all the digital information that they have access to.

That's wonderful. Well, I'm so glad we were able to catch up today, Dawn, this has just been awesome. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me. My pleasure.

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