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I got a chance to fly on a one world carrier between Johannesburg in Cape Town on British air which oddly enough, I mean, I guess it's not odd if you know the

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extensive history not extensive the varied history of South Africa.

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But there's, there is a British The British Airways flights that are direct between two cities, not in in, you know, England right between job Cape Town and Johannesburg.

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It's very rare, it would be as if, as if you are in France and American Airlines would fly you from Paris to like marcee or something like that. It just never happened.

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You had to fly and sub regional carrier. Have you ever flown on like an easy jet or Ryan Air

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No, I think southwest, which I don't know. I don't even think of the discount airline anymore actually just regular airline, but I guess what's the other one frontier. I guess would be the closest here and here's where

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The one that has different animals on a plane right

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I think that's right. I don't know, I just thought, every time you anyone flies frontier, they'll come back and just tell you the same story and I couldn't believe how expensive it was to like check bags. Everything you had to like pay for everything to upgrade and then

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Usually they're extremely late and, you know, like, not on time. So if I've ever heard a good review. So the only thing people I guess do like is that occasionally you can get a really cheap flight. So, yeah.

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Yeah, you know, we haven't talked about air travel in a while. Brandon has a has it gotten any better.

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I don't know. I've just not had to travel as much in

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My recent work life. So I mean, for me, it is always gotten a little bit better. Right. That's an easy. Yeah.

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It's an easy answer.

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No, no, I don't know if it ever gets easier. I think it's just, you know, you're always in the middle of you're either trying to get points get too many points or you traveled too much.

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Yeah, are you capable enough to get points so that you're always in some weird state, the only way the only winning move is to not travel at all. But then of course you miss out on like talking to people and customers.

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So,

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That there's no winning man. There's just no winning this game.

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Yeah. Yeah, I was. I was telling him that, you know, in a few years. I'm hoping to either arrange my job, or like or just have my job be a lot less travel, like maybe I don't know once a quarter or something.

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Or or even less and and and she considered it and and she was like, I don't know. You were like such a

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These are not her exact words, I'm sure it was much more comforting and understanding and nice, but she was essentially like you're, you're such like an introvert and like homebody that I feel like if you didn't travel, you would never talk to anyone.

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I think I don't know. I've always said the perfect job.

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You know, whatever it is, 25% which is I know it's kind of like this one, I kind of think of it as like one trip a month.

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You know, and maybe that's like you go out a week and you go to different places are like me too short trips, depending on how you work it out. Like, I think that's always like gives you enough time to one be render family so they kind of miss you. When you go

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There not like sad, they're like, yeah, wouldn't be so bad have data, the house for a couple of days.

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You know, so there's, you know,

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At my house. It becomes like pizza night and I don't know it's just like there's a kind of a little ritual of like having fun stuff and then

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It gives you a chance as someone traveling so you do get to stay in touch with either colleagues or customers and then you have enough time to come home and like maybe do some work like actually

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Consume like whatever it is that you are doing like right up the road trip report or putting the requirements or

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give feedback or, you know, help out with the sales do something right because yeah

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I mean, it's like all these things where you're just traveling all the time unless like unless you're like,

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A paid performer or you really are like you're just like, Hey, I did the show and I got paid. Right.

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Other than that, like you always it's like the email cloud just gets bigger and bigger that follows you, you're like,

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Oh man, I've been on I've been off you know now for three days and you're just like, and I've got, you know, just grows exponentially. How many things just supposed to do. So I said 25% travels what I

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Will add is that an interview.

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This is a topic.

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25% and and also it's enough to like get status at hotels and airlines, maybe not top to your status, but something right like you'll find so that this topic we should talk just a little bit. My should get your give me some some therapy on this topic because I've been wearing

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I'm trying to figure out if if I am or performer and therefore I am doing my job, or if I actually need to like, you know, answer my emails, so to speak.

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literally and metaphorically speaking, right. And so like I figured I think I traveled like once a week, and occasionally twice a week and then this week I'm away for the whole week because I'm down in South Africa, right, which mysteriously not not mysteriously but like

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Cognitively oddly, it's in the same time zone as Amsterdam, but it's a 10 and a half hour flight from

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Weird

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That's, yeah. Strange

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Yeah, so it is it. It's a little bizarre right like

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Like I was just calling back home before this. And, you know, everyone. Everyone agreed, even after three days in like this is very weird. Usually when you've

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Gone this long, it's because you're in like the other side of the world and things don't work out but yeah it, uh, it is strange. Anyways,

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You know, I, I feel like I feel like I'm not doing enough like work, aside from traveling, but then like when I'm traveling, right. Like, I don't want to do anything.

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Like I'm just like, my mind is just like fried out and and like for here, for example, I'm like emceeing the two conferences, we have down here.

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And so, you know, I gotta. It takes a lot of energy to pretend like I want to be around people and entertain them. And these are things I probably shouldn't say recorded, but whatever.

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And and and then when I get home. I'm just like the and then I'm not home for long and I get to travel again.

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So I need to like

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I need to like calibrate on the the when I'm off the road personal and actual expectations of what I should be doing. But in your experience extensive as it is when when people travel a lot, like how much other work. Are they expected to do

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Well, I think, you know, the idea of how much they're expected to do versus what you can do is is perpetual discussion between managers executives and people travel light.

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I think reality is like if you're really full word traveling and you know and and ideally, right. The reason you have traveled is because you're doing something at some location that's going to occupy right so let's

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Start there. Because I don't understand. I've seen many times where people have traveled, then there's like I had to be in the hotel room. They're just like in the hotel room on calls the whole time. And it's like, that was no again. No one wins in that situation, you

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Know,

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You know where I am right now doing what

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You know, don't, don't go

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Over

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The place it's most pronounced is like a conference like

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Yeah, and

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Purpose to go to the conference was to be part of the conference. So either work the booth meet people analyst relations, whatever. Right.

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So when people say, and of course, like, you may have to break away for an

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Hour, but like I have been places where people like the entire day. They're just like, I just had to be on call. So I always think that's just a total misuse of time.

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But then back to the the work that I think you can do on when you're traveling is like I just called like traffic.

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Kind of traffic work right where it's like in your email, you're just trying to keep things going. And, and usually you either have to have some staff behind you that maybe works for you or people that you know that you're really working with and they just need like an approval. Yes. No.

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A quick review of

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Stuff like that kind of stuff. I think you can keep going. I think anything. I mean, I'm going to be honest, this is probably too honest. But I think anything that requires more than

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15 minutes certainly 30 minutes of direct effort when you're traveling. It's like, I tend not to do it right because you're just like,

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By the time you context which into it like you've got to put together like a whole new presentation for something else, right, like the webinar next week, or you've got to do, you know, a long proposal or you got to write like a pretty long blog post or something like that, like,

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You know, unless you're just sort of on the plane and you've got like a real set of time that's sort of blocked out and you're in, you're in a in a mindset that you can work because sometimes get on a plane is it's like that's time to like sleep a little bit catch up on a movie.

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Yeah.

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I just find like you have any tasks like that's the way I think it's more like how many 30 minute plus tasks. Do I have skewed up ahead of me.

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And if that list gets really, really big and I've been traveling. It's like I need to travel less to be to be really honest about getting that work done and high quality.

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It or it's like you get to these places and like nothing gets done well right you're at the conference, you're not paying attention and you're doing the presentation. It's not really that good so

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But I do think people who don't travel or just everybody does have these expectations on. It's like, well, if you're traveling a lot like you know you should just continue to do your job 100% and it's like

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The way it works no matter what people say. It just doesn't happen that way.

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It's sort of like the thing where if you work from home, the people at home are like, well, you can totally fold laundry and, you know, wash the dishes and then maybe watch the kids and

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Also do some sweeping

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Basically, you can just be at home, which I think, I think we're probably lucky enough that our situation we've done stuff like that long enough that

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It works out, but I often notice that people who start working at home. Initially they have to get over this, you know, doing housework stuff which which is thrilling in its own

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You

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Have we talked at you do the thing where if you have housekeepers come over, you have to clean the house first

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Funny enough, that was I was actually out of the house this morning, just because of that. And we, I like term it. We go through a family ritual of, like, I wouldn't say cleaning picking up. It's like trying to get

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Most actually myself to not say blame myself but it's like everyone like everything needs to be put away so that when someone

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Is going to come over and and clean our house that we have everything out of their way. And they can do their job and kind of scrubbing and cleaning and because it really just makes you know

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It. I think it's more efficient for them, you get a cleaner house in of course it is good in life to like pick up your room, right, in this case, pick up the house get everything put away. So we do that every week.

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This is all totally logical. It just drives me crazy. Though I just I just like I feel like the billionaires who have like a house staff that they're not like picking it up, they just

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I mean, this is a whole nother. I mean, you're in a whole nother category of opulence. I'll let you know when I get there, what we decide if we change.

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Yeah.

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That's good. You can invite me over. And I'll just hang out.

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We'll have an in house staff, my coordinated my social people

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Climb. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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When when Brandon eats everyone eats

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Exactly, exactly.

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Well, you know, speaking of everyone eating. Let's, let's say that you weren't sure if your servers are were hungry or empty, you didn't know how responsive your applications were what my you use to figure out the state of your, your estate.

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Yeah, it's a great question. Coach, and I have just answered for you like let everybody know that this episode is sponsored by solar winds and one of their DevOps DevOps tools app optics.

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Nobody likes trade offs Kota you don't trade off so well I trade off. You can have it all.

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Developers are having to choose between monitoring everything and staying in their budget, the result major gaps in their monitoring well app optics is monitoring that you can afford to run everywhere.

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Pricing is based on host hours not maximum count or high watermark with app, the optics, you can catch performance issues before your customers do

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For the find the root cause of any application or server issue in real time app optics lets developers and operations spend less time troubleshooting in more time.

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Doing what they love to letting users. It's a SAS hosted platform or a solution. It's easy to manage its budget friendly.

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And here's what I want you to do. To learn more, and to try it for free for 14 days go to app optics com slash SDK again and I'll spell that out for you. It's a PP. O. P. I. Sorry. It's a PP. O. P.

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T IC s.com slash Sgt. And of course, when you visit them. Tell them your friends at software defined talk essential

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Yeah, that's right.

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They, they they've been very nice to sponsor so many episodes. I was a

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Fantastic sponsor. We want everyone to try out their products. Yeah. Yep.

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You know this. This reminds me of a couple things. One, if anyone has a recommendation for a place to get a hair and a beard cut in Amsterdam, I would like to hear about it.

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Because I really need a haircut. Like it's gotten to that point where even I started thinking, boy, I need a haircut and, you know, I went to this place called

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cutthroat and you know they were just too cool for me. Like, I can't handle it, they, they, you know, I went and I think I talked about this. I went and looked at the guy who cut my hair is like Instagram.

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And he, he, him and his buddy also have like a location and a visa or however you're supposed to pronounce that. And they're like, super cool. They like run around run around without their shirts on. And look all like they've worked out. And you know, it's just I just very intimidating.

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I don't know what to do about that. So I just

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Go back. Like, what would you do, you just like, that's it.

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I'm not. No, no, no, I haven't gone back

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And they're also like you know that I don't mind paying that much for a haircut, but it's just like the overall experience. They just make me nervous. I need something a little more low key.

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I don't want to feel like I'm being judged by

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My hair cutter, even if they're not doing it, it's just, it's just a few. You know, they, he got that, like, I think this guy's also in his early 40s, which is kind of a mystery.

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I did way too much analysis of his Instagram feed.

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But, you know, he's got that kind of style where he wears like a really thin sort of almost white undershirt with strategically placed holes in it. You know, like the little tiny, tiny, tiny holes.

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As if he's just like hanging out, but he gave me a good haircut. So maybe I should go back there. I don't know. Anyways,

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I just want to locate place to get my haircut that isn't like a supercuts or or maybe I'll just go back there. Tough call now also, you know, you know when when you're traveling you you know your fancy person like me, you go, you go on Uber's or car services or whatever your politics drive

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And and this isn't always the case. But down here. They definitely listen to talk radio not talk radio is we would know it, but your morning Zoo stuff people knocking the

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Bus

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And one of the most extensive coverage of that yesterday on radio. Now, they also covered something they kept calling hashtag live in China.

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So,

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Really know

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You know, you're supposed to

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Suck on a lemon and not have it be your face in a strange way.

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Okay. And also there's a there's a lot of controversy about

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local politics and highways and things like that, but yes. Now, now is it. I haven't dove into this story, but like that it really lock an iPad till 2067 I mean I feel like I feel like Apple security is such that they they would be like, yep.

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Yeah, no.

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Hundred percent. So what happened was, um, yeah. So, you know, if you just keep trying to unlock it, it just like you know continues to delay it right so gets to like

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I think that is a weird usability thing effect that sort of works as designed. You think at some point they would just be like, it's just locked. Like, you can't hear you mean like time doesn't matter. Right. It's just like

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Block. Yeah.

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Lock period. So I think what I read, I actually just I didn't come on interested in, and then it's a little news story. I think the last thing I read is that the

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They were able to like boot it back into like restore mode. And I guess that's what you're supposed to do. Right. It's like you ideally you reconnect your iPad to like your trusted iTunes.

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Oh yeah and then

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You can like restore it. So in that case you lose whatever data, you know, your toddler, I guess, in this case, you know, like, whatever they did, you know, between the last backup and it being locked, so it is possible to do it. It's not like it.

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Seems like a usability. We just but that would be the, you know, because what that guy was was the fact that he put on Twitter. I think it's me, make sure to link this in the show notes. It's kind of funny is it's like

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You know, because apples actually usually pretty good. And so I think they would just put it on there and be like this at something to the effect of this devices now locked permanently.

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To, you know, and then tell you what to do to to deactivate it or to unlock it, plug it back into your iTunes computer or whatever or start a full restore

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Restore anything I

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Just make it obvious because I'm, I'm sure that that

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He is needed. The, the first person, nor the last person to make that mistake.

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Yeah, that would be that would be stressful and and you know

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Obviously the solution, just by your kids, their own stuff. Don't let them touch her things. That's what I always tell my kids when they want to use my phone as I'm, like, be very careful.

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This is my favorite thing in the whole world. So do not break. And I've said that so many times that I think I think I was telling Cormac that once recently. It's like, be careful. It's like, I know, I know. It's your favorite thing in the world.

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And then there's a moment, you're like, well, maybe I've, I've

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Given my son, the wrong priorities in life.

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It is funny when kids are

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Repeat things back to you, like, oh wait, I guess I've said that too much.

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About that. Yeah. Yeah, well, well. Also, this week, I think, I think the thing I was you. You watch the the keynote, as always.

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The big Google next event. You're a good keynote, or you, I think you always your brand and trademark keynote live streaming in

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Slack pointing out what's going on with the DJ and

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Other performances. So let's start there. How was how was the opening done well.

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Good. Yeah, so lots to talk about here. So obviously, it's the Google next

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Conference, not to be confused with Google IO. So Google. Next is all the cloud stuff that's kind of our world and then glue Google I O is it's in the summer, and it's a lot of stuff. Its consumer

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stuff as well. So it was it was interesting, like one. You know, I like to start from the beginning like set design this year liked it a lot better than last year.

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Last year, there's like three different pods and they were like moving around. I think they were doing some kind of Cooper natives things people were like popping out of left and right. This

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Just, you know, if you will, full on single shot big presentation things behind it and it was just made it much easier to follow it online. So I really appreciate that, too. I always, you know, the aesthetics of it is

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I always feel like Google, I guess, made it famous you know like the deep dark black backgrounds, you know, with like slides behind it. Google and

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To their credit, you know, I think most people say this doesn't work, but all the screens behind them. For the most part, white right lots of white stuff and bullet demos flying

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It does give it like it that trademark Google feel right. I kind of, you know, you just kind of feel like that's there's

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Like light and airy that's

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Yeah, kind of light area. Fine, you know, and you've seen a lot of the colors you know so. So I like that, of course, so they started out with the Google CEO came out and this is what I just forgot his name, but like

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The big Thomas Korean

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No, no, that's also say no.

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They have oh yeah the other guy everything in cloud.

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Side. So I'm going to get it wrong you everyone knows who I'm talking about. But, you know, he's the one in charge of all of Google search and everything like that. So he comes out.

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In kind of gives a quick intro and you know they a lot. And what he basically comes back to is

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announcing their hybrid and multi cloud product which is anthem. So that's sort of like comes out says like, hey, we're announcing this brand new thing.

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And it brings together private public clouds on premise in the cloud in and just kind of says like, here's the anthem and you're like,

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When he did it, it was like, like, and I was in the Slack channel with other listeners and it was sort of like

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Me, he just kind of said it was like like no one of us, sure, like what he was announcing which was kind of a funny thing was like

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Is this like because there's sort of like everything was like, Is this a new version of Cooper 90s, like, is this the new platform like it was just like

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Boom. Here it is. But he made it sound like you're just

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Again, like it could have been anything you're just like, Okay, great. That sounds great. I have no idea what it was. And then they brought out

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And then they sort of like decompose it and I kind of talking about, like, okay, you can move applications between the public and private cloud. And then the big point they kept making was it supports.

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You know, they say all the public clouds, what they really mean is AWS and Microsoft, right. So this is a management platform to let you move your, your applications between

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Any of the major cloud those three cloud platforms as well as on premise and then they, you know, kind of had a call back. I couldn't help but think of like the sun and you know James Gosling and, you know, write once, run anywhere, right, you're just like,

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You've been in technology before like you've heard that right. You're like, you're like, oh,

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It can mean a lot of things. So he does that, and then they bring out somebody who does this demo and listen I agreement infrastructure demos are

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Very difficult to, like, show them and make it compelling. I used to

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Do this single sign on demo in like when it worked. It was just to just signed in. It was like the boring is thing of all time. So as someone that has like been a part of many infrastructure demos, I get it, I get it.

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But I think what you have to do in that case it's less about the demo. It's like creating the story like you need

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More time on the story less time so like when you're doing a single sign on.

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Demo like you almost don't even show the demo till like the very, very end, you're just like, you're talking about how, like, and then it's going out here in the SAML token. And, you know, you have to really, really over

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Emphasize what is going on because otherwise, like people have no idea what's happening. Or just like, oh, it worked. And you don't even care so that they came out they did this idea and they showed a website and they showed migrating it

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You know, in live time but it was, I don't know, like this just wasn't a lot of networks, they showed you the website and then

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The presenter says something like, and we've like pre configured the script and they just flashed the script up right and then it's like, hit a button and then like

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A few minutes go by and then did the thing where they well we've gone ahead and pre transferred it over and then boom, the websites up and you just have, I mean,

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You know, it was one of those things where you just like no idea like what was really happening behind the scenes. So it's like hard to understand, like, oh, okay.

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What they've done is they've taken it from an on premise server right to into the Google Cloud, but very difficult to get all of that. I thought that part was really, really difficult to get. But I think the net net of it was after reading it in like talking to all the

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Software Defined talk listeners everyone kind of came to the whole thing. It's really when you get down to this. It's an iOS is a management platform for really Google

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What they call a GK on premise of Google Cooper 90s. Right. So you can either run your Cuban 80s in Google Cloud or through anthems if you have GK on premise, you can run it there as well. So, I mean, that's sort of

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Maybe a very simplified way of looking at it. But they're really providing the management and

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The ability to do all that together. And I think what they kind of call it. Here's a anthems config management. So if I was to say like, Oh, you like if I just feel like the next level down

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It's really those those three things. It's Google Cooper natives engine, which is their on premise thing. I'm sorry. Sorry, which is their cloud thing. So that's running it in the Google Cloud and yet GK on premise.

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That part that's on premise and you have the anthem config kind of making it all work in between those two.

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And then you have this do of course right you need some kind of networking mesh system. So they sort of package that up and they made all of that work together and then the part that they didn't, other than saying it.

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And so I don't know, and I'm sure they may be done some

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Further presentations today was when they say it works with AWS and Microsoft Azure. What I don't know. It's like, what does that really mean, like, do you just have to link in your account and give it permission to

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Like provision servers inside like its own Cooper natives environment or like exactly what parts of the other clouds. Is it using I think it's probably just the infrastructure side but that part was sort of just very hand wavy, other than just, like, hey,

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It'll allow right so

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It's only for Cooper Nettie stuff. So it's multi it's like Cooper Nettie has his mom or something that's gonna like layer on top of not leaving

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That's pretty much and when they say it. And that's the idea. So I think the idea would be if you got all your apps in containers and they're running on Cuban 80s.

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Right.

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Or maybe start that way if they're running in containers and those applications are easily deployed in in Cuban 80s, which they probably are right then at that point, you could kind of easily move them between the chill. Right.

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Right. In fact, that day and then the missing link that was like when they say integration.

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Between those those other clouds. Like, what does that, you know, I mean, like, what does that really mean, I guess that's the part that I did not like what do you have to do to set it up, how quickly if you do set it up.

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Because you could use simple stuff. I just a VPC today into Amazon, right. You could set up the infrastructure, any way you want it.

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So I don't know like what advantages. She gets that part I think needs a lot more teasing out to really understand it.

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Yeah, yeah. I didn't. I spent a little bit of time trying to find like the the comprehensive explanation of everything, which if anyone's working on like marketing material at a website if you could just add a link to that like

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On everything that would be great. Just like I don't care how many pages that is just like

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To scale manual. Like, I, I will admit that even at Pivotal. Like we send you to like a web page that has a whole bunch of stuff, but I just want a PDF. I just want to be like this. My I want to know that I'd like to, for example, let me let me use. What's it called the anthem. Oh.

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Let me use Santos as an example.

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Let me clear my throat. I would be interested in knowing everything about it, at least at a skimming level right where I could kind of skim through it.

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And in order to do that, I would like to know where page one is and where the last pages, right, like so. I want to read everything, or at least kind of get a view at it, just to answer it similar things that

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That you are saying right now. There was a lovely page that listed even had

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The new stack reference on it, which is nice, but like, and it had some nice diagrams which is great. And again, I'm aware of throwing rocks and all the glass houses. I've ever lived in

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But it would be great if maybe it exists, but just linked off of that page was like, here's how it all works.

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Right, yeah. And so, for example, it leaves and and also I'm putting all these disclaimers in here like maybe it exists, and I didn't spend a lot of time.

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You can see the conversation that beginning where I've been traveling a lot but

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With you going over it. I would assume something along the follow following is there are various Cooper Nettie districts that are compatible with Google's lifestyle.

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And if you are running those Cooper Nettie destroys wherever, then you can manage it with with this single plane of management. Now, maybe it's even more general and because Cooper natives is a standard at all, has a similar

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We say observe ability. Nowadays, right. We don't say monitoring.

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So there's a similar

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There's similar. What do they call it metrics and observe ability or they called something like, I don't know.

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I think there's a good

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Or something. Yeah, yeah.

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So, so you got yeah you have your, your, your portals of chaos. That's what we should call metrics.

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And so, I assume, or maybe the Cooper Nettie stuff is standardized enough that you get the same hand you're not handful, you would get like

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Some sort of like Indian God with hundreds of handfuls like of data. And so you could just easily collect that and manage it and there's probably

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Only like I don't know 50 various operations, you would do in Cooper Nettie to start things up monitor them killed them. Attached Storage do network configuration.

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So I guess you could you could also just say Cooper natives is open source in a standard. So with that standard API very reminiscent of the concept of OpenStack, we can manage through that API.

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Yeah, the implementation is consistent

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And that

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Sell for the AWS and Azure thing for me and managing those as well.

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Yeah, you know, I watched it pretty closely and that was what I was kind of waiting for. They didn't say like, aka. What a jerk Cuban 80s. And then, you know,

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Of course Amazon's got AWS got a couple different versions right to have their, you know, their Cuban 80s version and then their own what can

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Containers as well. So I didn't, you know, this is the part. Like, I guess, is

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Kind of what I thought would have been interesting was like, you know, and I understand it to their keynote. So not going to spend a ton of time emphasizing

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Other event their, you know, their two main competitors. But, you know, that was the part. And I'm sure it's been maybe

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Distilled and other presentations but or just even on here. Right. It's exactly when you say that connects other clouds. Like, is that what you mean. It's okay. Yeah. You know, you just plugging into another Cooper 90s.

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Distribution and we support Amazon and we support Microsoft and like you're using their, their stuff. Are you standing up, like, you know,

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Kind of more infrastructure that anthem is going to ultimately

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Manage for you or, you know, the third one being that anthem is open, right. It's like are there management API's that, you know, maybe they're really close. Like, to your point about Cooper natives, but

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You know the other vendors, he's got to do a couple things to make it work, like all these things when you left that announcement right it was

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You know, you just kind of like left a lot of these questions like, Well, you know. And to your point, like I always think, you know, Apple

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You know that when the best time I've seen a rollout, were you talking about detail was SWIFT, SWIFT programming lunch because at the end of that thing. They're like, they're not like here's the PDF right here's the book. The book is 400 pages and then is in chapter three.

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We

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Go through and the first part is like what it is, how it works, and like lots of examples and then like last 300 pages is lean essentially like the reference for the

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The language. Yeah, like perfect right you know you can like move around and get what you want. So that's like the gold standard. And I understand a programming language is a lot different than, you know,

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management platform but but that's kind of what you know you would want here would be like the front end of, like, here's the narratives. Here's what it is and then you can go to the chapter on like okay integration with is your

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Integration with AWS and actually see what it works. So, so I get it. I mean, they're going to have to like do more on it but just the way in. I did find it. It was

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Such and I just had to see the CEO Sundar Pichai is the CEO of Google. So he's the one that came out and kind of let off. So those

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I think they did that for a lot of reasons or give it like a lot of like gravitas, like this is really important to Google, he led this off. He did that part. And then he introduced the new

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I guess he's technically the SVP of Google Cloud Thomas Korean right came out and then he really took over from that. And so there was a lot of like

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Praise for Thomas and Thomas did a good job, kind of like recognizing Diane greens, former

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SVP of Google Cloud like acknowledging her contribution and then you know he kind of just took over. So obviously,

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He as everybody knows, like big time Oracle person like lots of stuff written on Twitter, but you know it came out he was

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He definitely felt enterprise like in a good way. Right. He didn't have the tie on but he had, like, you know, basically a suit without a tie on and was

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Was very enterprising like it's all enterprise CEOs or leaders do just like emphasizing that I've met with hundreds of customers we understand what you mean. It's about the customer. So it's just sort of like

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Really trying to give Google that kind of feeling of like yes we're operating like

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Like Oracle or like other traditional enterprise vendors and we're going to be really responsive to customer needs and the really the place that they showed that emphasis the most was on this whole private hybrid cloud message.

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Right, that's what they just kept coming

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To over and over again, right, that was really the point that I think he was trying to drive home.

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Yeah yeah well you a couple things. One, so he was actually wearing suit pants, not, not really dark blue jeans. Yeah.

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No gene said he had, I think, because everyone else pretty much had you know except for the customers that come up from banks, they're always wear suits, but everybody

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Was

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You know, kind of them were like the dark jeans night, you know, kind of like dress code kind of thing.

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Well, listen, listen. I made a prediction last last episode that voice technology will always be garbage. My prediction for this episode, maybe this will be coming on going a

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Bit bits, the wrong word, because I'm deadly serious voices garbage.

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No, but I think I think by next year. He's going to be wearing dark really dark blue jeans. If things are going well, like, the longer the longer suit pants are worn

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Gotta be a little shaky that you know we were trying to change enterprises not persistent now. Now, next I have a feeling

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I don't actually know I'm not an analyst anymore. So I don't really know Google sales, but they are as all the articles relished and saying a distant third

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In the the cloud rankings. I wonder if they struggle. We know this. One of the reasons you would emphasize, they say hybrid instead of multi right. Are they are they consistent with hybrid or they slip a multi in there now.

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They said both I'm. They said, I think it was

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Pretty much.

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interchangeably. Okay. Okay.

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Anyways, they private one of their big stumbling blocks with enterprises is that that exact thing where they're basically like Oh, but you just run in the public cloud, which is great.

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But that's not going to work for us. And so they need to have, I mean they've had GK for a year or so, like on premise.

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Or something, but they probably need some sort of on premise thing which which which is fine. I think I think other vendors suffer from the opposite.

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Of that in the area now. Now the other thing that was much mentioned, I think. And, and correct me if I'm wrong, or whatever is basically they can now migrate VMware VMware into Google Cloud, right. Was that part of it.

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Yeah, so, you know, I think Matt and I spent probably way too much on a previous episode talking about you know this windows 2008 end of life. Right. So Windows 2008 server and

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I remember that and

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I'm sure you've lived in January of this of this coming January. So that would be 2020 and sequel server actually is. End of service life in July, so

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You know, I kind of think of the world right now is like all the cloud vendors are really two distinct

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You know clouds within the clouds. If you want to go this route. There's like transformation to cloud, right, and there's migration cloud.

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And there everybody because of these these dates. Right. These 2008 i think is driving an incredible amount of migration work right and this is less about

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You know, kind of the world. I think, you know, you spent a long time Kota. It's like the culture and like let's do some design thinking. Let's do some pair programming. This is more like

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Man, we're on this treadmill and we're going fast, and we are about to crash. I have 10,000 servers that I need to move like today, right.

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And so what are you going to do, and I think this is where you know a juror has its approach AWS has its approach and then today this morning.

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Google announced, you know, some live migration tools where yes, you can take both, I think they showed both Windows servers as well as

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Some sequel server databases in migrate them to their cloud offerings, because again, clearly this is I think it's less about

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Thomas Korean kind of thing. It's more about this is the thing that everybody's under the gun to do so. So it's like kind of as a saying before, it's like

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The focus at the moment for any large enterprise that's got made some commitment to Microsoft, which is generally like everybody. Right. I mean, you've just got some Microsoft. If you're a large company.

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They are all focused on figuring this out. And so one day one. It's partially because like obviously it's going to be end of life.

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But to. It's like, you know, where do we want to be like, which of these vendors, who's going to give us the best price reduction, because everyone's looking for a deal if I'm going to move all this stuff. I should save a lot of money.

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And then finally, I think it's not lost in any of major cloud vendors, you get somebody to move thousands of VM.

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Over right you know we know we talked about lock in and things like that. Like, this is not something people are going to do a lot like once you get that business that business is going to be there a minimum three years, if not longer. So a lot of talk about all of that.

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And and then and then what you're saying implies that there porting from some Windows OS to at least the new version or two like Linux or something. Is that the

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They showed a couple things like one. This is another thing where they showed this idea of a migration utility, right. So the idea that they could automatically take a VM and make it a container like

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I don't know. This is another one of these things where you're like, need to see a lot more here. Right. So one was that, you know, essentially, they could integrate the VM, which are tools out there that do this. It's not like no one's ever pretend that this but

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And then they essentially will then you know take that rebuild it into potentially into, you know, a container usually running Unix

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Or sorry, running Linux and then actually get your application over there. So this is a whole app migration play, we can on so so the message, the high level messages like hey, we can automatically just move all the stuff that containers right

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But again, where's the white paper like exactly which things are

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Eligible for this which things aren't how you know if my raver here. I think he could really go into detail on this, right, like, you know, because

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We're. Where did you find the detail.

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But I want to know.

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Yeah, I think this is like you had to be at the sessions are you gonna have to watch it that later. So you have that part. Okay.

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But then you also have the other stuff, which is just taken a VM right just lift and shift. Like, we're going to take the VM and run it and they, you know, they showed that announcement with

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VMware

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And just take it over, as is and just run your Windows VM in this case on GC. So that's if you will have a much simpler way of thinking of it and like that obviously would

314
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:58.320
You know a lot of people are doing that, that's not that's not nearly as controversial as like we can migrate in real time because most places. And I think, you know, you spend a lot of time. I bet talking about this right

315
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:05.160
You know when you're going to do some app migration, it's usually we need to inventory what your apps do, what are their dependencies, what are the technologies.

316
00:38:05.520 --> 00:38:16.680
You know, and maybe it's easy to port over maybe it's hard but I think few apps can be like automatically migrated without, you know, without somebody there behind the scenes like really checking to make sure everything works.

317
00:38:20.520 --> 00:38:23.760
That makes sense. And just, you know, I guess.

318
00:38:24.750 --> 00:38:34.590
I don't know. I never really would think of the Google Cloud is just running like generic things like I always think of it is mostly like for you know the services that they have the middleware stuff they have, and

319
00:38:35.250 --> 00:38:41.460
If you're writing software, but I guess if you just got a bunch of Rancho VM is running, you can, you know, you could run them there.

320
00:38:42.390 --> 00:38:44.730
Well, I think this is kind of back to, like, you know, if you're

321
00:38:44.790 --> 00:38:48.960
Going to play in the enterprise. Right. And this is where you know you want to build

322
00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:54.450
You know, whatever the business, you know, whatever. However, many billions of dollars. We think they're going to be spent there.

323
00:38:54.750 --> 00:39:02.010
This is a key requirement for the large enterprises is to run the boring stuff right take all the VM to have today.

324
00:39:02.370 --> 00:39:06.420
I want to get them out of my data center. I want to get them in your cloud. I want it to be cheaper.

325
00:39:06.870 --> 00:39:10.290
And then for some cases. I want to get rid of that the VM is all together.

326
00:39:10.620 --> 00:39:18.240
In my migrated containers, but a lot of this stuff is going to live on for, you know, a long time. Right, it's just not eligible for transformation or just, it doesn't make sense.

327
00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:24.720
from a cost perspective. So it's like, just keep that app running. So I think their response. And this is where I think Google

328
00:39:25.020 --> 00:39:33.810
You know, I think when we talk about the developer world, right. We often hear that Google has maybe the most developer friendly cloud, right, certainly Cooper natives comes from them. They built a lot of

329
00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:44.760
Technology and I do think they probably deserve like they are they feel a little bit ahead in the developer experience to me. But at the same time they feel kind of behind and like managing traditional infrastructure.

330
00:39:44.790 --> 00:39:45.150
But that's

331
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:53.130
Probably where the bulk of the businesses today are certainly you got to overcome that that obstacle in a sale cycle to actually get people out there so

332
00:39:53.160 --> 00:40:03.030
Well, so is our last exercise, you know, assuming assuming that next episode when Matt raised on and he corrects all of our misconceptions tells us how things actually work.

333
00:40:03.450 --> 00:40:10.740
Which would be great or or we find this mythical manual maybe he would know because they're printing it up over there somewhere in China.

334
00:40:11.370 --> 00:40:19.260
Intercepted one since he's the lord of a Pj and he's read through it before it gets on the boat over to California there.

335
00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:28.170
That that could that seems to happen quite a bit with him. That's why he knows so much. But anyways, let's let's assume, let's assume the best of all possible things right which which

336
00:40:28.170 --> 00:40:38.010
Is basically to follow. Following that, essentially, it's a multi Kirk Cooper Nettie manager multi Cooper Nettie that's a new multi cloud and basically

337
00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:42.690
Like as I was describing it can hook up into things and just manage it for you and

338
00:40:43.230 --> 00:40:53.040
Now, now, I'm not sure if that means that you can have multiple Cooper Nettie clusters over various geographic zones acting as one thing which I think is ultimately

339
00:40:53.490 --> 00:41:03.060
What everyone has always wanted, since the day that the days that sun was going to run data centers in Siberia, or something for what was that network com which

340
00:41:03.090 --> 00:41:04.440
That just turned out to be just like

341
00:41:04.470 --> 00:41:06.240
HTC stuff right like

342
00:41:06.330 --> 00:41:07.680
Right. It was very disappointing.

343
00:41:08.910 --> 00:41:19.680
Anyways, we've always wanted that the global multi zone cloud that just some dumb infrastructure. So it's probably not that and and then the other thing is, let's just assume

344
00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:29.730
You just got some generic and buy generic. I mean, you kind of don't really know it's in, and you don't really have to muck with them too much. You got some VM is running in your private cloud.

345
00:41:30.150 --> 00:41:43.050
During this tool and now they're running in Google Cloud, right. And as you either have you either have to port. Make sure your application because it's going to containerized them, but a container still as an operating system and software running on it.

346
00:41:43.410 --> 00:42:00.090
Yeah. So you either have to port your stuff off windows until the Linux that runs in the container or you put windows in that container and then you might have to upgrade the Windows version based on you know whatever the Windows Server apocalypse thing.

347
00:42:00.600 --> 00:42:05.940
Right. Or sometimes later in the summer Microsoft's like hey, just pay us a lot of money and will keep supporting it.

348
00:42:05.970 --> 00:42:14.280
Which know that the Microsoft thing right just for everybody who doesn't know Microsoft thing is put your if you put it in a jury get three years of standard support for 2008

349
00:42:14.310 --> 00:42:16.200
So again, Mike. Oh, that's, that's good.

350
00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:22.590
I like, you know, Microsoft playing it's trump card there. Right. It's like, hey, if you just met it over here to save you some money and will give you three years, so you don't have to do anything.

351
00:42:22.680 --> 00:42:23.910
Right for three years, but your

352
00:42:23.910 --> 00:42:28.500
2008 and so good news like nice move by Microsoft there. Yes. Yeah.

353
00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:38.100
Alright, alright, so we'll assume all that. So, Brandon, you say this thing when a company would be acquired who loses. So assuming the happy path here. Who do you think loses. Like, who are the

354
00:42:38.490 --> 00:42:44.250
Who are the partners, the other people, the ecosystem and the cloud world like who who's not doing well here.

355
00:42:45.390 --> 00:43:01.530
Well, I think, you know, without a doubt, right, I, I look at it like AWS, the behemoth still, you know, rocking along I think Microsoft, you know. This just in, it turns out, owning the operating system really valuable Kota. No one would have thought that anybody just again like

356
00:43:04.350 --> 00:43:06.210
You see it again with the way their hand.

357
00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:13.710
I think if your Microsoft sitting present a whole nother set of options like hey, we can just put this right here. You don't have to change anything will help you for three years. So that's a solid thing.

358
00:43:14.040 --> 00:43:21.720
And then Google, I think this gets them even now the thing. And we're going to go the way my answer your question. The other major announcement here was Google

359
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:31.710
Has essentially done what I think we had talked touched on about before, right, so we've talked a lot about open source and the fact that all these companies are changing their licensing models, mostly

360
00:43:32.430 --> 00:43:42.630
You know, because they're worried about AWS. So Google came out yesterday. The other way. And essentially, I mean, again, hard to take it any other way than just a shot across Amazon's now.

361
00:43:42.990 --> 00:43:50.400
So the day have done is they've partnered with all the guys that were changing the licensing model. So it's read us data stacks Mongo.

362
00:43:51.120 --> 00:44:01.590
Elastic influx Neo for Jay and confluent right so those guys have all been kind of like in the in the world changing the licensing model. So what Google has said is that we are not going to partner with our open source.

363
00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:04.230
Friends here and they're going to offer unified billing

364
00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:13.620
Unified support and one other thing I just basically allow them, you know, if you want to use these applications. So think of it kind of like this app store model.

365
00:44:13.950 --> 00:44:19.710
You essentially be using read us on Google's Cloud, but you just pay the bill to Google get all your support from Google.

366
00:44:20.010 --> 00:44:25.140
And they essentially you know if behind the scenes. They do some type of revenue share. And I think we touched on this a couple

367
00:44:25.890 --> 00:44:29.520
I don't know, a couple episodes ago, we're talking about, like, Could this happen, right. I think we were using

368
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:36.720
Another cloud vendor sort of as a placeholder there but so they've come out and essentially done that. So they said, we want to work and had

369
00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:45.780
I can't remember which guy was, I think it was the other Rita CEO came up or Reddit, it gets gratis I guess correct way to say that read this lab see that you have came up

370
00:44:46.080 --> 00:44:50.790
Enough. And sure enough, he said something along like you know it's been a challenge to monetize open source software.

371
00:44:51.090 --> 00:44:57.210
Can no surprise to anyone is listening this podcast. So he was obviously really excited about partnering with Google. So

372
00:44:57.630 --> 00:45:08.130
This, to me it was like, you know, this was very kind of at the end of the keynote, but like, to me this was the big news like this is really something significantly different. Right, we're about to see.

373
00:45:08.550 --> 00:45:19.560
What do people really want to people want to be part of these open source projects and use them and make sure they get paid if sell your answer today is to go work with Google Cloud

374
00:45:20.010 --> 00:45:31.500
If you're just like, I just want the functionality and I don't really necessarily care about you know what it is underneath, as long as it's, you know, some technology based on something I've seen, then you're going to go the Amazon way.

375
00:45:31.740 --> 00:45:39.960
So like, to me, I was like this is exciting. I was like, you know, moral enterprise software. I felt like this is about as exciting as it gets, because you're really have two people with

376
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:46.080
Two very different strategies about to really try try out some different approaches and looking to see what

377
00:45:46.590 --> 00:45:55.470
It's it's a good. It's a good experiment between the two. Because if I remember someone on the Google side was basically like we're going to make sure they get paid a living wage.

378
00:45:56.130 --> 00:46:04.560
Like whatever whatever wording, you would use in that setting which which which I'm sure is nice and then and then you get to run the, the actual thing.

379
00:46:05.490 --> 00:46:13.770
So, that is that is a good. That was that's an instance of the did they still say don't be evil that that was that was, that was a good flow but

380
00:46:13.770 --> 00:46:18.900
Your thing I didn't answer your question, Lisa. Like, I mean big winner yesterday. We're all of these open source companies, right, that

381
00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:28.290
One are in the catalog to I think anyone that started an open source infrastructure company of anytime I think they have to have first thing on their list. It's like we got to get in this Google Cloud

382
00:46:29.010 --> 00:46:33.480
Catalog, and we got to get part of this revenue split right kind of like, you know, if you will, with Apple and of course

383
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:41.130
You know there is a little like morning here. Be careful what you wish for. Right. Because I think Apple sort of revolutionized the app stores. We know it, but now

384
00:46:41.490 --> 00:46:47.580
Not everyone's happy with it. Like sometimes the app developers are like you're taking too much or like Netflix is like, I don't want to give you that cut but

385
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:55.770
I think these, these guys are more like the magazine providers in the apple scenario where like, you know, any money. We can get is better than nothing right so i think they're a little bit

386
00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:59.100
Stay definitely left. It's a big when I think

387
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:08.640
I like this idea, because I think this is one of these, you know, we talked so much about strategy. Right. It's like this is an flanking move right, I don't know, there's an obvious way Amazon could could

388
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:17.280
Culturally Amazon seems to be more like we want to just use this technology and keep costs low. So I don't know if they're going to quickly come out and say, Oh, we'll pay you to

389
00:47:17.970 --> 00:47:21.210
They could, but it doesn't seem like something they will match is easily

390
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:25.980
So I think that all of this together. I think is, is really interesting. And then I'm gonna plug

391
00:47:26.310 --> 00:47:38.910
You know, our interview podcast that we did this week with Matt ray and I interviewed Adam Jacob Right. We talked a lot about the situation. I mean, I think in the last episode you guys talked a lot about chef and it's it's moved to 100% open source, but

392
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:54.000
You listen to that interview. I think one of the points. Adam makes a lot is about, you know, ultimately, the value is is the the trademark and I'm gonna go one step further. He didn't say this, but like the value is often being a part of these communities. And I thought to myself,

393
00:48:07.590 --> 00:48:08.100
Announcement is

394
00:48:10.230 --> 00:48:11.010
Really about to

395
00:48:13.950 --> 00:48:14.100
Do

396
00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:23.910
Behind this, you know, Amazon, and so I think behind this is kind of this like

397
00:48:24.150 --> 00:48:35.580
This idea of like, is it really community and brand that people want to be a part of, or do they not really care. Right, and I think this is gonna play this isn't going to be an experiment, you know, we were at the weeds. This is the weeds podcast, we'd be like,

398
00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:41.400
In two years from now we can go back, look at the data and will tell you what people really cared about based on this.

399
00:48:41.790 --> 00:48:52.710
Yeah, there's, there's some really interesting things going on with the open source in Denmark, that's, that's what they would be talking about. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it does bring together to foggy notions.

400
00:48:53.700 --> 00:48:59.820
As you're saying that I was even thinking about this week, you know, we, the, the, the spring one tours that we go on.

401
00:49:00.270 --> 00:49:09.810
Our as the name would imply just basically about spring. So basically about Java programming. And then, and then tasting meets Paul gets up there, and he's like, here's Cooper Nettie days.

402
00:49:10.350 --> 00:49:19.470
So we have that in there. Thankfully, and I don't know. I think I talked about some digital transformation or some bullshit like that at the beginning.

403
00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:28.530
But it's interesting to, like, you know, as always hanging out with the developers, because their, their view of the world is much different. And I think if I may.

404
00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:35.520
If I may briefly extemporaneous guys if that's a phrase I think their view of the world is. I don't want to pay for shit.

405
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:43.770
That's basically it. Like there's, I don't think there's really any other driver, except it needs to be free and

406
00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:48.780
Of course there's other drivers, right, they would like it to work and be fast and kind of be interesting.

407
00:49:49.650 --> 00:49:58.350
But essentially, they need some way of using something that's free, which is part of why they like spring so much right because springs free and you know basically programming is free.

408
00:49:58.950 --> 00:50:07.200
And container things and stuff like that. But then I think, despite what I was just saying about it being the only thing there is a tremendous amount of like

409
00:50:08.100 --> 00:50:17.220
I guess we should say brand. It's fun to be snarky and say fashion. But there's a lot of, you know, companies they carry this mysterious thing on the balance sheet called goodwill.

410
00:50:17.730 --> 00:50:24.030
And I think, I think this combination of goodwill and brand which I always think of goodwill is basically like

411
00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:31.050
You give the company. The benefit of the doubt and you think that they're doing something good and you assume

412
00:50:31.470 --> 00:50:37.980
That a product they have is, is a product worse consuming, and it's just an overall is it would say, goodness, you feel about them.

413
00:50:38.520 --> 00:50:51.960
And I don't know how much Google's goodwill on the balance sheet is but like I feel like in this space. They have an incredible amount of goodwill, like most everyone is probably like, That sounds awesome solve that problem and did it again right

414
00:50:51.990 --> 00:51:04.680
There, just like boom like sounds perfect and so it is like in that so so as as a not purely open source thing. Like, that's nice for Google as as it

415
00:51:05.220 --> 00:51:13.710
Were and I think Amazon has a similar thing in there, right, like the the goodwill that people would have for Amazon is like it does everything and it works.

416
00:51:14.490 --> 00:51:15.270
Right, which

417
00:51:15.540 --> 00:51:16.050
Will take

418
00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:21.870
A good position and then anyways. And the other thing is, so back to the open source thing is

419
00:51:22.650 --> 00:51:37.770
It's, it's almost an extension of that idea as you were saying is what matters is that you are using the actual open source thing not like an imitation of it or whatever, like this is the actual Reddit or the actual

420
00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:45.420
Influx or the actual Mongo, they are using and and I think some of that, rightly so, goes under this notion of

421
00:51:46.740 --> 00:51:53.640
Compatibility or avoiding lock in. Right. Like, you want to use the pure thing and not use something that

422
00:51:54.450 --> 00:51:58.470
You know, has a little bird in it that makes it like not compatible with other stuff.

423
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:07.530
But I think another part of it is just like you want to just use the pure thing. You don't want to use like some strange off brand thing you want to use the actual thing and then therefore

424
00:52:07.950 --> 00:52:18.420
If that is the sort of belief system that you're operating under then yeah, you want to, you want to have all the open source people be on board and. And then the question just becomes long term.

425
00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:29.670
Like is that from from a cloud providers perspective is that a profitable way of doing business like whatever cut, you have to give to Mongo.

426
00:52:30.240 --> 00:52:43.890
Does that are you subsidizing them by not profiting off of it. But in the future. Sometime you are or is it actually like a profitable business model to give them a cut of it, versus developing it on your own, which, who knows.

427
00:52:46.530 --> 00:52:47.100
It's probably

428
00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:49.350
Instance fighting somebody think

429
00:52:49.350 --> 00:53:01.110
That's even position right if if people are more likely to come. Use your thing, because you're putting about the brand, they want to use the actual Rattus right they don't use, they don't use the thing that's not bringing that way if that helps with user acquisition, obviously.

430
00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:03.900
That's a huge cost savings and I do think you know

431
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:12.600
And this is just a sort of just fascinated is like a sociological question about this whole thing, because I think your point is right like people want to use stuff the street. But when we go to these conferences. Right. And we just go

432
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:16.470
Or you go to some happy hour with a bunch of developers and really I don't know anyone that's worked in tech

433
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:23.490
I guarantee you're going to see, like, you're going to see a lot of like T shirts with like corporate logos, right, you're going to see a lot of people like

434
00:53:23.640 --> 00:53:29.190
And that is sort of like an identity, kind of thing. Like I don't you know like I work on. I have a red shirt I have this right so

435
00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:35.370
There is some self identification going on like I use these products and these products are what I want to do. And when you

436
00:53:35.790 --> 00:53:45.450
And I do agree that delivers one thing is free, but if you'd like. Try to go into a room, be like, let's just use this other thing that's free that you haven't heard of that isn't maybe as well maintained or just and well known like

437
00:53:45.720 --> 00:53:53.310
That's not going to get a bunch of people excited. You know, they're usually like why why don't we just use the other thing, right. Why don't we use the thing that's were popular that's

438
00:53:54.120 --> 00:54:01.050
You know that I've used more than I have more experience with so you know kind of back to that Adam Jacobs interviewer his kind of discussion right

439
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:14.280
Is, is I think that is like the big question like, how much is that a brand and how, in the case of the developer, right, like they're not really paying if it's just like, Hey us read us and then you know what we'll just do a deal.

440
00:54:14.970 --> 00:54:20.310
That behind the scenes like yeah, we'll just buy that for production, like, you know, it's called it's cost effective and the business guys do it.

441
00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:29.070
I think that's the way you know that community wants to go right as long as they can get it and they're not paying for it. And I do think there is some brand identification and and

442
00:54:29.430 --> 00:54:37.080
You know, I was trying to think of more appropriate example after that Adam Jacobs interview. I think maybe you know this all this college scandal over here in the US, but I was thinking to myself, like

443
00:54:37.560 --> 00:54:43.440
You know, when people apply to college here in United States like it is a huge identity thing if your goal really is just to learn

444
00:54:43.950 --> 00:54:47.880
Like freshman calculus and maybe like freshman English writing like

445
00:54:48.240 --> 00:54:59.610
You don't really need to pay to. You don't need to necessarily pay a lot of money to do that. They're like a lot of community colleges. There's lots of stuff online, like if your goal is just to learn calculus and learn it really, really well.

446
00:55:00.090 --> 00:55:05.010
I don't think you need to actually pay to go to college, yet, you're probably do a lot of it online, or maybe you

447
00:55:05.610 --> 00:55:11.580
Pay a very low cost communicates but but what are you missing out on that, like you're not part of a college. You know what I mean, you're not part of a huge

448
00:55:11.940 --> 00:55:17.880
collegiate experience or freshman class, whether you're like into the sports or just the community or meeting new people.

449
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:32.160
And I don't know, I just I think to myself, you know, some some part of open source touches on that same idea. Right. Some of it is about being part of the community. So I think that's what Google is definitely kind of betting on with this this announcement this week.

450
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:42.630
Um, yeah. Yeah. I, you know, before, before we wrap up, I was, I was thinking, earlier you know when when I was complaining about the the the manual for things that

451
00:55:43.140 --> 00:55:52.830
Maybe not at first, but eventually one of the nice things that Chef and Puppet had is, it was they were just like, so you need to configure things. That's what we do.

452
00:55:54.840 --> 00:56:01.770
There's, like, very little ambiguity is like we got this thing, it will connect to whatever you want. And like change the mind I files.

453
00:56:02.220 --> 00:56:13.560
Done right now of course there's other stuff that it does. But it's a very straightforward thing that it does which which which is nice. I room, you know, back when I was doing cloud strategy stuff, this idea of

454
00:56:14.610 --> 00:56:21.000
What did we even call it back then, managing multiple clouds in a single screen that that was, that was the big idea.

455
00:56:21.030 --> 00:56:23.730
That's when I had the cloud brokers are like a big

456
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:25.440
Data Cloud brokers.

457
00:56:25.530 --> 00:56:26.760
Versus the whole idea.

458
00:56:27.150 --> 00:56:34.590
That's, that's when you had right scale. I still have right scale, but that was, that was a big thing. They were layering on top of everything and then

459
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:46.590
And then everyone was trying to figure out the value prop like is this about cost controls. Is it about like knowing everything that you have and I don't know they they they do nice reports now those rights to people.

460
00:56:47.610 --> 00:56:54.690
And I'm sure they probably are a fine business because they still exist, which means they they've been doing well. So anyways,

461
00:56:55.410 --> 00:57:04.050
As mentioned, I'm down here in South Africa. If somehow you've logged into my my computer after recording this, and you're listening to it. You can come see me tomorrow.

462
00:57:04.620 --> 00:57:13.200
And several other people here in Cape Town. Otherwise, you should go over to spring one tour that I. Oh, and there's plenty more cities that you can come catch us at

463
00:57:13.830 --> 00:57:20.760
And then also there's other conferences, you can go check out if you go to software defined talk.com slash 174

464
00:57:21.150 --> 00:57:29.670
I should also mention that if you want to go to DevOps days Minneapolis, which is August 6 and seventh there's plenty of time to plan for it just block that off on your calendar.

465
00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:39.900
Probably. I bet it's probably even that thing where you had a kayak and you check the pricing and it's that rare instance where it's like, you should probably wait to buy this ticket because it's going to be cheaper.

466
00:57:40.290 --> 00:57:43.290
Every time I looked at it. They're like, Oh, dude, you need to buy right now.

467
00:57:44.970 --> 00:57:50.100
Which which is not helpful. But anyways, you can go to DevOps days Minneapolis and if you use the code.

468
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:57.510
You can get $50 off of that. Also, Matt. Ray would probably mentioned that there's chef con

469
00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:11.760
May 20 to 23rd or Matt will be speaking. And there's one in London, June 19 to 20th, a little miniature chef con which is exciting. Now, we had to skip over listener feedback last time, Brandon. You want to go over some briefly.

470
00:58:11.910 --> 00:58:14.430
Absolutely. I want to go over a lot. Got a lot of people who

471
00:58:14.970 --> 00:58:21.990
Emailed in and I always appreciate it so Darryl from Pennsylvania, he started and overcast and he got the last grey software defined talk to

472
00:58:22.350 --> 00:58:26.220
T shirt, so I'm sure he's wearing that with pride. Matthew from book or time

473
00:58:26.790 --> 00:58:37.740
In a genius move. He actually wrote a review on Twitter, which I said was like man I should add like started we're suggesting that like years ago. So he got the last black T shirt. So hey, if we ever do this again we have

474
00:58:39.150 --> 00:58:44.940
T shirts like yeah, write us a review on Twitter. That's probably better than all this iTunes and overcast and everything else. So

475
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:55.170
I'm designating him. He's in charge of social media strategy going forward. And I appreciate everybody who got a t shirt, but we're gone, they're gone. So no more T shirts, unfortunately.

476
00:58:55.800 --> 00:59:04.350
Crawl from Gainesville, he tells us that he loves it when the three of us get back together. So sorry not ready to make it this week, but still a great episode, I'm sure. So we sent him some stickers

477
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:09.990
Stickers. And then, Richard. And then I go to your local knowledge. Help me out here. He's from Rotterdam.

478
00:59:10.080 --> 00:59:11.850
Which I believe is ensure the Rotterdam.

479
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.240
Yeah.

480
00:59:13.230 --> 00:59:15.420
pretty major city or their city there and

481
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:19.230
Is that like saying like, it's not like the Bronx in New York. I have no idea where that

482
00:59:20.010 --> 00:59:29.730
That that that would be that would be like saying, I mean, you know, like Houston. Like, it's just, it's just a big, big port city. Interesting, interesting two facts about Rotterdam.

483
00:59:30.270 --> 00:59:39.750
I think it was the Nazis, I, I've lost track. But basically, the city was leveled in World War two, so it's it's more or less completely new.

484
00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:41.550
Like, everything is built up and

485
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:55.230
A new they're set is related factor that there's long time been this kind of like between Austin and Houston. This rivalry between the Amsterdam and Houston. And I think part of why the Amsterdam was, you know,

486
00:59:56.460 --> 00:59:56.700
Right.

487
00:59:56.730 --> 00:59:57.360
Yeah, yeah. Did I

488
00:59:57.390 --> 01:00:01.230
What did I casted robbery between Amsterdam Houston, nothing.

489
01:00:01.530 --> 01:00:02.700
They're probably good friends.

490
01:00:02.730 --> 01:00:07.860
But between between Rotterdam and Amsterdam and one I found that all of the

491
01:00:08.520 --> 01:00:23.730
Dutch people outside of Amsterdam that have I gone over this already. I spent an extensive time asking Dutch people what they think about each other and everyone agrees that the Amsterdam people do not realize that the whole world. The rest of the world exists. They basically

492
01:00:24.150 --> 01:00:24.870
That Amsterdam.

493
01:00:24.930 --> 01:00:29.520
So very, very sort of way, people would describe Boston nights. Right. Remember there was the soul.

494
01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:29.880
Yeah.

495
01:00:30.180 --> 01:00:38.580
So you keep there was a silk, a UT thing where, where there was this joke of this girl was like we were standing in line and we started talking about how great Austin is

496
01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:49.050
And I realized that, like if you get some Austin nights together after 15 minutes they basically spend the whole time talking about how great Austin is which, I think, I think maybe that's the view on

497
01:00:49.650 --> 01:01:01.350
On Amsterdam. Anyways, but then also the Amsterdam is I think part of why they don't like the Rotterdam people or, you know, have this this fun rivalry is because it's just like they got this brand new city instead of all the fun old

498
01:01:01.350 --> 01:01:08.880
Style. Yeah, well, like it. Oh, that's excellent. Well, I hope, Richard enjoys a cigar. And then finally, last one. Clive from Brooklyn, New York. He got some

499
01:01:09.210 --> 01:01:16.470
Stickers. And he promises to spread the word at his local coffee shops where I guess everyone in New York works at coffee coffee shop so good.

500
01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:28.320
Good. So I appreciate all the feedback appreciate everyone emailing in but you're not if you did not get do not have a sticker, then this is what you need to do Kota. You need to send me your postal address that stickers at software defined

501
01:01:28.650 --> 01:01:33.270
Talk calm your postal address I'll send you a bunch of stickers. We can send these worldwide.

502
01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:42.210
No problem, just let me know where you are. And we'll make sure to get it. And then, of course, if you want to you can follow us on all the socials we got the Twitter. We got the Instagram.

503
01:01:42.600 --> 01:01:50.220
We had the LinkedIn. We even got a Facebook page, but don't really think everyone seems to be gallon Facebook's I don't really talk about that, but it's out there. So check all that stuff out.

504
01:01:50.940 --> 01:02:03.990
Yeah, yeah. You just reminds me one last thing. And then we'll get to recommendations one when you said everyone works at a coffee shop in in New York, just for our Dutch listeners, is that that does not mean that they're just like smoking out all day.

505
01:02:04.080 --> 01:02:13.830
Oh yeah actually coffee serve there but also also related. I was searching. I was trying to find a place to have coffee actual coffee.

506
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:20.910
With with someone next week and I tried to search in Amsterdam, and I realized. Holy fuck. I don't know how I would search for that.

507
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:31.080
Because I can't really put coffee shop in so I don't know. I don't even know what I would search look. Yeah, but a cafe like as a whole rather like that implies a restaurant and you're going to eat some of

508
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:33.120
Which is, I don't know. I mean, so

509
01:02:34.140 --> 01:02:41.910
Luckily, I was sitting next to tasting me pause and it was like, Oh, I've got just the place to go because everywhere he goes, he checks out all the places. So he okay

510
01:02:41.970 --> 01:02:43.980
Your recommendation, but nice

511
01:02:44.220 --> 01:02:48.330
I need to find the right search terms for that. So with that, what do you recommend this week, Brandon.

512
01:02:48.930 --> 01:02:50.640
You know, a while back I bought a

513
01:02:51.240 --> 01:03:05.460
You know, this is a three a three year old review, but I went on got an iPad Pro, but at the first gen since the 99.7 inch one. And the reason I did this was I wanted the keyboard on it. And so I know they've recently announced the new iPads have it but

514
01:03:06.090 --> 01:03:16.140
I was gonna say having an iPad with a keyboard is definitely a lot different. Like I use it more. I feel like I can do more with it. I ended up getting the pencil, just because, like, you know, why not, right. Got it. Use

515
01:03:17.220 --> 01:03:26.040
The pencil is interesting. Like it's novel, but like I did take notes. A couple times. But then I haven't. It's just sitting on my desk haven't used it much. So I don't really know if you need the pencil.

516
01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:37.680
But I'm all in on the keyboard. The keyboard makes it quite a bit. And in my mission right is to get to the point that if I've, if I've traveled. I just want to be able to take the iPad Pro definitely

517
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:38.370
Very

518
01:03:38.670 --> 01:03:43.500
I can't get there. Like, this is too much PowerPoint. I don't know. I haven't figured out the PowerPoint side of that yet but

519
01:03:44.160 --> 01:03:46.530
I can do a lot of like when I talked to you before.

520
01:03:46.530 --> 01:03:49.980
Like when you're traveling. It's the work you want to do is send this like

521
01:03:50.400 --> 01:04:01.920
Traffic Control like yes no email routing slacks, like I've had is really good at that. It's really I think it's excellent. And that's why I really like with the keyboard. I can be, I don't know, five times more productive like getting things done.

522
01:04:02.580 --> 01:04:06.600
But I'm not willing to like do a PowerPoint like create a PowerPoint on

523
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:08.640
That

524
01:04:08.970 --> 01:04:18.570
So I don't know if that can be done, but, uh, but nonetheless, so I got mine for like used for like 300 bucks. And I guess the new ones. Now they have the the keyboard thing. So, so probably

525
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:27.300
Like I don't know who's using like maxing out the CPU have an iPad. Like, I don't know why you'd ever by the pro like in the case, I did it. So it's only when I get the keyboard. At the time, but now

526
01:04:27.630 --> 01:04:31.260
Now you get to keyboard in the pencil with the regular one. So I think that's probably a pretty good bye for now

527
01:04:31.410 --> 01:04:36.180
And this is one where is the one where the keyboards like built into the apple cover.

528
01:04:36.450 --> 01:04:37.590
Is that right, yeah. Yeah, it's the

529
01:04:37.590 --> 01:04:44.910
Cover one. So it's just like another cover. I thought it was gonna be kind of booking not a problem and all the one I have is been fine very happy with it.

530
01:04:45.240 --> 01:04:52.320
Well, hear you. So I use the pencil all the time. I use this app called good notes. There's most, most people seem to like notify

531
01:04:52.890 --> 01:05:03.510
But I think good notes is the best, you know, and I actually just like treat it like Notepad. But you should try the pencil. But here's the problem with the pencil is like

532
01:05:04.950 --> 01:05:15.390
Aside from this one case that I have in that Apple sphere of iPad hurry. The idea that your pencil should be like securely attached to your iPad doesn't exist.

533
01:05:15.780 --> 01:05:24.540
And so, like, you know, the keyboard. You have right like it more or less as far as I remember, sort of like fits securely there like you don't feel like it's going to break or fall off.

534
01:05:25.470 --> 01:05:31.680
But there's not really you like you can't do that with the pencil. Right. So you got this pencil thing. And there's really

535
01:05:32.220 --> 01:05:39.690
Nowhere to put it. And so therefore, I think a lot of people just end up forgetting about it because they're not going to like carry around this, don't eat pencil all the time, whereas

536
01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:43.620
That would be an argument then for the new one, right, because no one has the magnet read

537
01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:47.250
The pencil. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean the magnet. It's gonna like like me.

538
01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:48.420
All right.

539
01:05:48.570 --> 01:05:59.670
Yeah, you have to envision this scenario you you'd like, throw it into your bag right that's what that's what you got going on or they need to have a pencil. That doesn't seem like it's going to break if you put it in your pocket. Yeah, probably.

540
01:05:59.730 --> 01:06:06.750
Doesn't. Well, I think, to your point about the notes thing like I think everybody can do some quick self assessment, like if you're like, I know you could take just

541
01:06:06.870 --> 01:06:15.330
From yours right like you've always have a notebook and it's usually pretty diligent about writing things and notes. So like, you know what kind of person you are like I generally am not.

542
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.540
Writing a lot of notes. I just honestly i will tell

543
01:06:18.540 --> 01:06:18.750
You

544
01:06:18.990 --> 01:06:20.490
If I'm going to do it. I'm going to open up

545
01:06:21.120 --> 01:06:32.790
So back to the keyboard thing I'd rather just open up the notes app and type than right that's just my preference so you know who you are, like right away, like if you're the kind of person that like I will say like writing on it is fine, like, Actually, it was like you

546
01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:33.090
Know,

547
01:06:33.150 --> 01:06:44.250
It's like I was like wow bad hand running my bad handwriting on the iPad looks pretty cool, right, I mean it just, it's, it's just the same. So that part is nice and also the infinite scroll. Right. You just don't have to, like, look for paper you just like

548
01:06:44.670 --> 01:06:51.690
Just keep going. Yeah. No, no, I think, I think you're exactly right. Because like oftentimes I feel like I should be typing.

549
01:06:51.990 --> 01:06:58.860
But then I realized like, I'm not going to get around to it. Whereas I can if I can just write like I'll actually do that even if there's the hassle of like

550
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:08.700
Going from analog to digital at some point. So, but most people are sort of like it sounds like you answered your question right there. You should just type in the first place.

551
01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:17.610
Which is fine. Well, my, my recommendation is there's, there's the season two of the tick is out on Amazon Prime.

552
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:23.310
And if you haven't seen season one, you should see that first but season two, just as delightful. It's

553
01:07:23.700 --> 01:07:33.000
It's, I think, I'm about halfway through, and it's still exciting, it has, it has a fun little minor appearance from that one guy in The Walking Dead who's like

554
01:07:33.810 --> 01:07:46.980
Who's like the number two guy for the Savior's or whatever. And it's it's he he's gonna he must have a difficulty getting roles, because he just always seems like that character, no matter what he's playing

555
01:07:47.430 --> 01:08:04.620
But you should check that out. It's fun and delightful. I think I'm gonna watch it after recording this, instead of, instead of giving into my, my, my, what do you call them sort of work master demons who say I should actually do some work after this. I'm going to watch some some

556
01:08:04.830 --> 01:08:06.150
Some movies watch some TV.

557
01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:09.180
I like it. Yeah, but it's delightful to very well done show

558
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:20.370
It has, it has a boat called danger boat that is sentience and has AI and really likes. The Princess Bride. So if you're into that kind of concept. It's the show for you.

559
01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:25.440
Well with that. As always, thanks for listening. This has been another software defined talk

560
01:08:26.160 --> 01:08:34.470
Episode, I was just about to say drunk and retired, which would be fun. I always try to start that podcast, more or less backup, but I just, you know, I don't know.

561
01:08:34.770 --> 01:08:45.450
I don't, I don't get around to it. That would be fun. But if you want to get the show notes for this episode, this being an episode 174 you can go to software defined talk.com slash 174

562
01:08:45.900 --> 01:08:58.980
And also, while you're over at software defined talk. We've mentioned our Slack channel and talking with people several times, you should log into their check it out. There's a lot going on on a daily basis. So with that we'll see everyone next time. Bye bye.