NOEL: Hello. Welcome to the Meetings Done Right podcast. I am Noel Rappin, and this is a podcast about running better meetings using the Table XI Inclusion Deck. The Table XI Inclusion Deck is a set of cards that Table XI has printed that you can get. Each card describes a behavior or role that you want to encourage or discourage at meetings and you play the cards as a non-confrontational way to encourage or discourage the behaviors on the card. And today, most of these episodes talk about a specific card or are focused around a specific card in the deck. In this case, we are talking about the Parking Lot Card which is a card you play to store an idea for later. And we have a special guest to help us discuss it. Ava, would you like to introduce yourself?

AVA: Sure. Hi, everybody. I'm Ava Butler and I'm an Organizational Development Consultant and I specialize in large scale transformational change. I've been doing this work for over 30 years. In my work, I design and facilitate lots and lots of meetings including staff meetings, project meetings, offsite strategy retreats, et cetera. And I've learned that meetings are absolutely mission critical to the work that gets done in the organization. I did write a book called Mission Critical Meetings which is why I did that because I do think they're mission critical. So, it's Mission Critical Meetings: 81 Practical Facilitation Techniques. And one that is extremely popular out of the 81, I get more requests for it than anything else is the Parking Lot Technique. So, I'm really happy to be here to talk to you about that.

ASHLEY: We're excited to have you. Will you tell us a little bit more about the genesis of the Parking Lot Technique because our Parking Lot Card was certainly inspired by Mission Critical Meetings.

AVA: As you know, one of the most annoying things in any meeting is you start to go off topic. It's a tangent of something that you're trying to talk about then somebody piggybacks on that and suddenly you're in a completely different space talking about something that's not even on the agenda or is certainly not on the agenda at that moment. The technique is just a very simple one and it's called Parking Lot which means literally, if it was physical, you take your car and put in the parking lot, turn off the engine and it sits there. In a meeting, what you do is just say, "Let's put that topic in the parking lot," which you know if you're in a physical room, you can write on a flip chart. If you're working virtually, you can write somewhere that people can see it. So, you put the topic in the parking lot and hopefully keep it there. Sometimes, you have to remind teams that the topic is in the parking lot and it's supposed to be there with the engine turned off. So, you do that. But then at the end of the meeting, go back to your parking lot and say, "All right. Which of these topics do we still need to cover?" Sometimes, you really have put something important there that should be discussed. And oftentimes, it's like, "Oh no, that was just a tangent and we really don't need to cover it." So, if it's not important, just drop it. If it is important, either discuss it at that moment, if you have time or turn it into a next step. Who's going to do what by when to address that topic?

ASHLEY: I love it because we also have an Off On a Tangent Card, and obviously, those two things are really different. The 'hey, you're taking this in a completely unnecessary direction' or my husband sometimes refers to it with me as like 'you've found a squirrel and do you follow the squirrel now'. But the Parking Lot really acknowledges like this is important to get to, still we're not going to derail the meeting. It's a great topic but let's keep it moving.

AVA: Right. And you're correct that it is different if people are getting into detail overdose, they're telling too much. And I often just say, "Headlines please." I put that in the ground rules for the meeting: Headlines only. Don't tell a really long drawn out story when a headline will do. 

ASHLEY: That's very interesting. 

AVA: There's certain people that that's just their nature. And so, you need to coach them in a polite way either during the meeting or even offline to say, "Please give us your headlines." Or if it's the person's talking too much, "Please give other people a chance. Don't jump in with your own opinion first." So, there's different nuances of kind of bad behaviors or unhelpful behaviors.

NOEL: How do you like to make the distinction between 'this is a tangent that doesn't need to be followed up on' or 'this is something to be put in the parking lot to be talked about later'. 

AVA: Unless it will be very quick. Sometimes, they just ask the participants, "Should this go in the parking lot or are we just off on a tangent?" And if it's very quick, but you don't want to have a big discussion about if it should go in the parking lot or not because then it defeats the purpose. So sometimes, I will just say, "Let's put that in the parking lot and we'll decide later if it's a tangent or we need to discuss it," and save five minutes at the end of your meeting. So you have to use a bit of judgment with your team. I mean, you want to be respectful of people and don't want them to feel dismissed but also keep the meeting running.

ASHLEY: Absolutely. 

NOEL: When you use the Parking Lot Technique, if a group is using that technique, how does that affect the way that they interact with each other over time?

AVA: I think people are more efficient. I mentioned ground rules before. I think it's important at the very beginning of the meeting to say you're going to use the parking lot and other ground rules are important too, like one conversation at a time, equal opportunity to be heard, honor all opinions, different kind of things. But I always put in 'keep on topic and we'll use a parking lot for anything that is off topic'. So, right up front, you've got permission that that could happen which makes it easier than if somebody is going off on a wild tangent and you try to shut him up and say, "I'm going to make a parking lot and your topic is in it. So, shut up." 

NOEL: Don't make me turn this meeting around.

AVA: Yeah.

[Laughter]

AVA: When people understand that, they are usually very accepting. We've all been in meetings that just go on and on and you're like wandering all over like you're at a cocktail party where the discussion just goes wherever it wants. And it's extremely annoying. Nobody likes that. So, the parking lot is very popular because it legitimizes the process of staying on topic. But as I said, you do have to go back and make sure that things do get covered if they need to. Or else you lose credibility.

NOEL: I guess my follow up there is over time, if a team uses the parking lot, are people more likely to make off topic suggestions because they know there's a safety net and it won't derail the meeting? Or are they less likely to make off topic suggestions because either they know that they'll just get pushed off to the parking lot? Or do you see that it doesn't have an effect at all?

AVA: No, I think it has an effect. I think people stay on [inaudible] discipline, so they tend to stay on topic or I often also have people say, "This is one for the parking lot." They don't want to forget it but they'll just say right away, put it in the parking lot which you do. So, people know that it's going to be followed up but to stay off tangent.

ASHLEY: I'm certainly probably really guilty of needing some wrangling around. Like whatever comes to mind, I think we should absolutely be talking about, for instance. And I have to tell you, Noel, like it has never occurred to me before I said something that I should wait because it will derail the meeting. I often will say like, "Maybe we could talk about this offline," after it gets going. But I have to tell you I've never thought this is going to derail a meeting. I should just not say it.

NOEL: I feel like having the parking lot and having that sort of actual sort of tangible manifestation of the idea that we are going to come back to this later, I think makes it easier for people to let go of the topic in the moment.

AVA: Oh, for sure. And I think what Ashley said is important because you're not alone on thinking that this might derail the meeting. Most meetings have such low discipline that it's not derailing the meeting; it's just the way the meetings go. So, it's a different way of working. And people like the efficiency of it, but it's also bringing in the unconscious to consciousness.

NOEL: I think a lot of people implicitly assume that whatever they say is the topic of the meeting by definition. And so, yeah, it becomes important for a facilitator to impose the structure of, first of all, knowing what the topic of the meeting is because like you said, you can't keep a meeting on topic if you don't know what the topic is.

AVA: Yes. And if you don't have a good agenda, how would I know if I'm on topic or not? If it just says, "Staff meeting, one hour," well then, anything goes. But if you have, "Make a decision on X and understand the implications of Y," then you've got very specific things and you've got times against them, then people know what they're supposed to be talking about. And if you don't have that, well then, gee, what a big surprise if people talk about whatever they want. 

ASHLEY: It's good insight. Ava, tell us additional strategies around building for inclusion and creating more inclusive environments.

AVA: That's an important question. And it's on the minds of almost all organizations now because inclusion means that you're going to make better decisions and hear everyone's voice. So, I think first of all, I refer to ground rules. I think maybe this is my third time because that needs to be a ground rule. We do want to hear from everybody. And with that, make sure you've got the right people in the room. If you've got a bunch of just random people that, "Oh gee, I'll invite Sally Jo too because she seems nice," you aren't setting yourself up for success. So, make it clear that you do want to hear from everybody and call out people. And I say upfront, "If I haven't heard from you, I may ask you your opinion." So, if there's somebody that's more quiet, I will draw them out, like to say, "Ashley, what's your thought?" I always say their name first, so they have a chance to listen. So, instead of saying, "What's your thought, Ashley?" I would say, "Ashley, what's your thought?" 

ASHLEY: Oh, that's so smart. 

AVA: So that you know that I'm coming to you and you don't get surprised in case you're not paying attention or something. So, I call people out. I also say, somebody is dominating, I would say, "Let's hear from some others before we come back to your thought." Things like that. You can use other techniques such as doing work in small groups, so that it's easier for more shy people to be listened to. A lot of people are more comfortable speaking if they're with the group of three others or four others versus 20 in the room. You can get ideas down on Post-it Notes also, like have specific questions and have people all write their ideas on Post-it Notes either virtually or literal Post-it Notes. 

ASHLEY: Yeah.

AVA: So, you're gathering all opinions and then looking at them for themes, et cetera.

NOEL: How do your facilitation techniques change if the meeting is remote and people aren't all in the same room?

AVA: The fundamentals are the same. But of course, you can't use physical things. I prefer meetings where we can see everybody. I am as guilty as anybody. If I'm just on a conference call, I'm going to multitask which is extremely bad behavior. If you can see my face and I can see other people's face, it's more likely you're going to get full attention plus people get to know each other. A lot of times, teams are virtual and you never meet physically. So, knowing each other and what people look like help. The other thing is you have to manage your technology. So, it takes a bit more time to test things in advance. But I typically run things much the same. You just use virtual, like I talked about Post-it Notes or putting things in the parking lot. You do that somewhere visual but it's just electronic versus something in the room.

ASHLEY: Internally, we love Post-it Notes and we often joke that we go through so many that we should long ago have invested in 3M. And we also virtually use Stickies.io. Stickies.io is a wonderful digital tool for Stickies.

AVA: And there's a reason why that like a lot -- if you do work with innovation and things like that, they're very analog. You write things down and you put things on walls, either virtually or whatever. And it's because your brain is more creative. If you're physically handwriting something, you have more liberties in your brain. I mean, it's just an idea. If you put it up on a PowerPoint and it looks all nice, it seems more formal even if it's not. Certainly, you get more participation with Post-it Notes and things but you also get more creative ideas typically.

NOEL: We are asking our guests to share stories of their best and/or their worst meeting experiences. I was wondering if you had a story to share with us.

AVA: I was thinking about this question and there's so many bad meetings. I mean, everybody's worst nightmare is go into a meeting that you're not supposed to be in, with a bunch of people that have nothing to add and don't care, re-talking about things that you've already talked about, making decisions you've already made. Somebody has got their pet peeve and they talk about it for the 39th time for 20 minutes. I mean, you want to lose your will to live.

ASHLEY: [Laughs]

AVA: And they happen all the time. And it's just, "Please, dear God, get me out of here." Unfortunately, more meetings are like that than the ones that are good. An effectively run meeting makes people like so surprised and happy, especially if they work in a culture where that's not the norm. And then, what a surprise, nothing really great happens in their company because they're wasting a bunch of time. There's certain people [inaudible] worst case scenarios like it's not my meeting and I can't make them stop talking. But yeah, there's hundreds of meetings I've been in that I'm like, "Oh, please, dear Lord."

And then the best ones are the ones where you've got the right people in the room talking about the right things, just in time, making decisions, and then doing something. A lot of times if meetings are done well, you can have breakthrough thinking. I love that. I love getting diverse people in the room that wouldn't necessarily all work together. So, you've got different perspectives. And as I said, come up with a creative solution that surprises and really excites people. I love meetings when people come out of the meeting just enthusiastic about their work and their company. 

ASHLEY: Absolutely.

NOEL: Well, that's great. Ava, thank you for joining us to talk about meetings and Mission Critical Meetings. We really appreciate your time.

AVA: Thank you so much and I'm so happy to have the opportunity. And I absolutely love your card idea. I think it's a wonderful way to create good meeting behaviors and a level playing field within the team of people in the room. So, thank you. 

ASHLEY: Thanks, Ava.

NOEL: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Meetings Done Right podcast. If you would like to learn more about the Inclusion Meeting Cards, order a set of your own. To find out about other episodes of this podcast, go to MeetingsDoneRight.co. You can also find out more about this podcast by searching for Meetings Done Right wherever you listen to podcasts. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts will help people find the show. 

The Inclusion Meeting Cards and the Meetings Done Right podcast are produced by Table XI. Table XI is one of Inc. Magazine's Best Workplaces and a top-rated custom software development company on Clutch.co. Learn more about Table XI at TableXI.com. 

Meetings Done Right is hosted by Ashley Quinto Powell and Noel Rappin, and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening.