Disclaimer: This transcript is auto generated and is not manually checked for errors.  It more than likely contains very significant errors.

Welcome to The Lock Sportscast, your weekly source for Locksports news and sometimes interviews like this one today's episode is a conversation with digs recorded August 3rd, 2021. I'm your host Charles Current
[00:00:27] You can subscribe to the audio version of the show on most podcast apps and at The Lock Sportscast dot com. If you don't already have one, you can find a podcasting 2.0 compatible app at newpodcastapps.com. You can subscribe to the video version on YouTube Odyssey and most of your podcasting apps as well.
[00:00:46] Now, links to stories discussed will be in the show notes, YouTube, and some apps limit the length of show notes and links, but you can always find full show notes with links at The Lock Sportscast doc. You can find video clips of some of the stories discussed on our clips. YouTube channel links will be in the show notes before we get started.
[00:01:06] I'd like to say thank you to the people that made this episode possible. Those would be the Patrion subscribers we have. Medlar Panda-Frog Michael Gilchrist, Starrylock Williams brain Dave Doobie deciphered, pat from uncensored tactical, pH picker, three raccoons and a coach Chirael Pattycakes MOG, John Locke, rat yoke and Mr.
[00:01:25] Picker. Thank you. Thank you to all of you. You really help keep this show going by paying the bills. And I really, really appreciate it. Of course, I would also like to thank today's guest digs. Digs is a us Navy chief, a mod on the Lock Pickers, United discord, a black belt picker owner of Digby lock-in tool.com.
[00:01:45] And he also has designed and made his own Lock from scratch. It's called the alpha and it is the main subject of today's conversation. So with that, here is the conversation with digs. Well, why don't we just get right into it? And my usual, first question, how did you first get into Locksports? What made you decide to start picking locks?
[00:02:09] Um, yeah, so for me it was, uh, it was a military thing. Um, I got some isolation training and part of that was a guy, uh, demonstrating how to get free from handcuffs and zip ties and other sort of restraints you might be put into. And as soon as I saw that guy break out of handcuffs, uh, it took him like three seconds behind the back.
[00:02:34] I was like, I have to learn how to do that. So I, you know, I rushed home at the end of that day, hopped on Amazon, got myself a pair of real handcuffs and, uh, started researching and that like stream of research turned from handcuffs into. You know, how do I get through a house Lock? How do I get through a car lock?
[00:02:57] How do I get through this and that? Um, and back then it was, um, Bosnian bill was the king of YouTube. Uh, but shortly thereafter I found Tumblr and Reddit, the subreddit and the discord. And I realized just how deep of a pool of knowledge it was, which is awesome for me, because I love, you know, diving into diving into hobbies and finding that there's lots to experience.
[00:03:22] Um, so yeah, it, it went from, I saw a guy break out of handcuffs to I'm trying to pick high-security locks in a matter of. A week and a half, like I tried to jump from a junk from the American 1100 straight to a brand new Beilock from security snobs. And it put me in my place real quick. Um, but yeah, it's been fun though.
[00:03:48] The whole journey I've been hanging around the discord on and off for three years, little over three years now. And, um, so that's what really got me into it. Once I, once I found the guys in the discord and, uh, found tumblers channel and, uh, talking to people that really did pick high security locks all the time and could prove it and could show me how I was like, okay, well, anything is possible.
[00:04:19] Right. Um, so then it was just let me see how many I can get my hands on. And I wound up sidestepping and a bunch of them, uh, you know, if it was, if it took me more than a day, then I would move on to the next one and I wound up, uh, I think I went white to black and like four months. Wow. And hell, you know, that was, you know, because most people will like, they'll fixate on the one Lock and they'll stay there.
[00:04:45] But I just was like, Nope, this is too hard. I'm going to do something else. And so I'd find another one, um, which some would consider cheating, but, uh, any who's Lee, what's it? That, um, that record stood until snow. And then somebody briefly after snow took it from him. So it's, uh, it was, it was refreshing to see somebody finally like, yeah, I got it in three months in three weeks or whatever.
[00:05:09] So yeah. Snow. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, he is. He's pretty good. Pretty impressive. So I guess the main reason we're here is the alpha lock, right? That's what you're calling it alpha. Yeah. So how did, how did that idea start? What, what brought about the idea of making your own. Well, it's sort of been, uh, a cascade of attempts, right?
[00:05:39] So there's got into, got into picking. I enjoyed that. I went to, uh, you know, get to black belt and rather than quit, uh, I sort of shifted my attention to, um, what else can we do? Right. And there's sort of the perennial w uh, conversation about this YouTube channel or that YouTube channel. Um, and so I'd make one for Lock Pickers United.
[00:06:08] I did what make one for it. Um, and tried to bring everybody in and said, you know, we've got 20 different content creators. We could keep this thing going all day. Or what I didn't realize is that the heavy lifting of editing that many videos a week is a full-time job. So it, it burned me out. It burned CJ out, burned everybody.
[00:06:30] Uh, and really the only the champion of that channel these days is op-amp, he's been taking in people's content and editing it and posting it on that YouTube channel for months now, um, over a year, I think so big shout out to op-amp for keeping that going and, uh, for anybody listening, if you're interested in sending any content into LPU, uh, please do that because that the point of that channel is to spread knowledge.
[00:07:00] It's not about ads, it's not about making money. It's not about, uh, fame for any one person. It's just, uh, this is high security picking. This is what it really looks like. These are what the locks have in them, that sort of stuff. Uh, quick plug there, but so yeah, it was, I, I did the picking bit. I left pew for about five, six months.
[00:07:22] Took a break. When I came back, I was like, all right, we're going to make the YouTube channel that matters. Right. We'll do the boring version and put the information out there. Uh, and after a few months of doing it five videos a week, uh, everybody was burnt out, took another break. Uh, and when I came back the next time I sort of decided, all right, well, what's next in the, in the progression like this, this pool that I haven't hit the bottom of this pool yet.
[00:07:52] It's a, where's the bottom, uh, started trying to make tools. Uh, man, the machinery I bought for that was substandard at best. Uh, so that didn't go very well. Uh, bought a little, little metal and tried to make a solid steel dimples, uh, dental tools. Which was sort of silly of me looking back now it's laughable, but I didn't know anything about making anything, um, like properly with machines.
[00:08:21] So tried and failed that. And then, um, for some reason I decided that I wanted to, to do a stream on, uh, what it really takes to get through a series from white to black. So I did a stream on our channel and just suffered, uh, life camera for, I don't know. I think it wound up being something like 16 hours of film of me just struggling.
[00:08:49] So for four or five sessions and, you know, I go white purple I think in the first and then the first video, and then it's a brown video and then it's a red video. And then it's like two, two full on four hour sessions of, uh, a MEWA. Um, which Mila did you work on? It was, oh, what is the name of that one?
[00:09:11] It's just numbers. I want to say 3,400 some it's a got magnetic sliders in it. And some top pins. I can't remember what the, what the actual number is for it though. I want to say 3,400 is right. But somebody out there will know. Um, yeah, so I did that sort of on a whim and then I realized, okay, if this is going to be a proper gauntlet, I got to do another quest and I had never done make a lock from scratch.
[00:09:42] And that's the most daunting for sure. Uh, at least in my book, I think it's the most challenging. So I started trying to make one with my cheap lays out of pewter because that's the only metal that I knew I could safely cut and get on dimension. And then about halfway through that, I realized that if I wanted to make it any sort of fancy at all, that I didn't, I needed a mill to be able to do, uh, cuts little labor camp.
[00:10:11] And that's when I just jumped off the deep end and said, okay, I'm going to go get a real mill and I'm going to make a real Lock and it's not going to be pewter. It's going to be breasts. Um, so I ordered a mill and all the tools took on some debt and, um, started going after making a way for Lock a high security way for Lock.
[00:10:39] And it took me about, I don't know, two months or so to realize that it just wasn't going to fit inside the standard American mortis. And that was the goal. Right? So the day I realized that I said, okay, I need to stop. I need to take a step back and try and make something easier. So my first thought was what's been around forever, you know, old lever locks.
[00:11:01] So I'm going to try and make an old lever lock that's. That seems way more achievable. Uh, and it's way more mill friendly because most of the components are flat. Right. They don't have, uh, lots of rounded things. Um, and so I started designing one, uh, in November of last year and it took me, well, it's not it's, I can't even really say that it's done, but it took me about nine months to get something that was functional, uh, unacceptable to me.
[00:11:35] Um, because once I had the, the format there, I realized it's not, I talked to samurai about it and the discord, and he's like, that's not a liberal lock because things don't pivot, they slide. So that's why I have to tell everybody it's a lever style way for Lock. Um, and he's right. So, um, but yeah, so what I wound up with is, uh, What should have been a simple lock that got over complicated by my brain.
[00:12:04] So every time I looked at it, I was like, well, you could just pick it like this and then put a new thing there. It puts, you could just get around it like this. And then I put a new thing there, or I changed the feature. Um, and so, um, I don't know, probably 200, yeah, iterations deep at this point on design change.
[00:12:22] Um, and the thing is, I know, I know for a fact that as soon as I put this out in the hands of all the black belts and the rest of the community, they're just, and eat it alive. So my hope is that it's annoying. It takes more than a couple of days for somebody to pick it, uh, and that they have fun doing it, but it's just the whole point.
[00:12:43] Right. Um, so a very long long-winded way of saying my hope for the alphas is, uh, My hope for my company in general, which is to produce locks that, uh, range from really fun to pick to difficult, to pick and are original and different. You know, there's, there's a lot of the same out there. I think a lot of companies are just like, well, they're doing that.
[00:13:08] And it works. So let's keep doing that, but cheaper. Um, and that's not what I want to do. I don't, I want to make original mechanisms that make you think. Yeah. I think a lot of large companies do, uh, let's do it either the same and cheaper, or let's put just enough of a twist on it that we can patent it.
[00:13:28] Sure. And, but they're basically the same mechanisms we've been using for decades or hundreds of years in some cases. So exactly. MEWA me was one of the ones that has a lot of interesting. And was it the Shea or, oh yeah. You pronounce them. Yeah. So those, those two are impressive. Yeah. Those old, the older.
[00:13:51] French companies have some really, uh, not only are they interesting mechanisms, but they're just beautiful locks. Right? So that's, that's part of the balance that I'm trying to strike too, is, um, it's different enough that you can call it its own thing. And it also is nice to look at, you know, like it has some style to it.
[00:14:11] It's not just a flat blade key with some cuts in it, which is the standard. Yeah. So yeah, first completely brass. I mean, I've, I haven't seen it broken apart in pieces. The 99.9% breasts, the Springs are not because the way it played out is that, uh, brass Springs are super annoying. So I said, I've got to get this out there.
[00:14:39] I'm just going to use steel Springs because they will last, I wanted to make it a hundred percent brass. I just couldn't get there. Yeah. I don't know that I've ever seen anybody make true brass Springs that, that function well and last, but yeah, it's doable. I think there, but I think you're right. I don't think they're true brass.
[00:15:03] I think they're bronze of some kind. Um, I could be wrong there too, but generally what you see is at least in the old lever locks, they have just a flat, um, a flat length of it that is braised into one section of each lever. And then it's just sort of positioned against something. So it can't move on the, on the far end.
[00:15:26] Um, but the way that I set this lockup, that's just not possible. So, so your, what would be levers slide instead of pivoting? Is that the idea? Yeah. Like a wafer would. Yeah. So instead of like in a lever lock, if you put the, you put the key in. Couple of things happen happened simultaneously, like your positioning levers to the correct degree of rotation.
[00:15:54] And you're also, uh, typically moving the bolt through the rotation. Um, and the difference in this Lock Lewis, the primary difference is that when you turn the key, you're not rotating any components, you're moving that you're sliding them. So you slide the wafers and then the whole bolt slides. So when you rotate it doesn't tension anything.
[00:16:19] Hmm. Now I really want to see the guts. Um, I think you've already answered quite a few of my questions in that one thing there. So how did you come up with the name alpha? What, is there any special meaning to it? It's a little bit of laziness and a little bit of flavor at the same time. Um, you know, any, any sort of endeavor where you intend to make.
[00:16:43] A series of different things. You want a predictable and follow bubble system. Right? So, uh, alphanumeric makes a whole lot of sense. People use that very typically. And, um, so originally the idea I thought, I thought it would be kind of fun to just use the Greek letters and alpha beta and so on. Um, and I strayed away from that because I realized one that the Greek alphabet doesn't have 26 characters.
[00:17:12] And I do plan on making at least 26 locks. Um, and two, I already have an alphabet that I can use. That's a little more, um, I dunno, I can't say it belongs to me, but one that I've been using for years. Right. Which is the phonetic alphabet. So instead of alpha beta, it'll be alpha Bravo, Charlie Delta, echo Foxtrot, so on and so on.
[00:17:36] Oh, cool. Different enough. I wasn't sure on the alpha, if you were going for like the Greek or not. Yeah. A lot of people think that and I let them think that, but the next one will be nice. I actually like that. So when do you officially plan to release the lock? I think it's you said something about pre-orders on the fourth.
[00:18:02] Yeah. That's slated to launch tomorrow, um, as of this recording, but, um,
[00:18:12] instantly battling tolerances. Right? So I'm going to release pre-orders tomorrow because I I've moved my deadline several times and I'm just done moving it. Um, that being said, I still have one dimension of my wafers that I'm tweaking. Um, and I feel okay with the position that I'm at to say, it's done, I can release it.
[00:18:37] I've built a functional prototype, but, um, in the last round I tried to add a little bit of aesthetics to it, you know, like the whole time it's just been, uh, form, uh, and function rather, and, and no real consideration the form. Uh, and so this last round of changes, I tried to put, add some curves to it and make it look, um, I don't know, more pleasant to look at the, you know, take a, take a sort of clue from the old French locks that just have, they have some style to them, you know?
[00:19:10] Um, so I, I added some curves in, had to change some dimensions and the most important thing that anybody should know if they ever want to design a Lock. If you make it where it doesn't matter how oh, you do it. If you change a critical component, every other components change it, just it as a landslide through everything.
[00:19:35] So I was like, yeah, let's, let's make it look a little nicer. And that resulted in changing yeah. Components. So, uh, you know, that means, uh, tweaking the programs again, making sure that they're going to come out right every time. And, uh, I'm down to the last part in the last dimension. It's just a little too.
[00:19:55] So, um, so yeah, long, the long way of saying basically it's going to get rid of the pre-orders will be released tomorrow and I'm going to just use the pictures that I've been taking of it as I go, because the outside hasn't changed. Right? Like the case of it, the key of it hasn't changed. Um, and really the function of The Lock hasn't changed.
[00:20:18] But what I haven't been able to do is say, this is the finished lock with all the intended, um, function and design changes, functioning. Here's a video, like, watch it operate. Uh, it's going to take me a couple more days. So, uh, but yeah, I don't foresee that being an issue. Um, most of the people that are actually gonna buy from me, I already know and have been asking to give me money for months now.
[00:20:43] So, uh, I, I don't foresee this being a huge production run where I'm making a thousand of them, um, at best I might sell it to them 100 and that would be great because it'll put me in a really good position to do two things, the switches design, the next model, and, uh, sort of invite the community, all the people that have bought one.
[00:21:03] And even the people that haven't, once they see it on video, To, uh, engage with that lock and say, you know, this really could be better like this curtain that you could just add a bit of geometry here and it would work 10 times better. And I know that that's going to happen because I know the people on this discord and the subreddit, and some of them are geniuses.
[00:21:24] The, you know, they're very focused, very, uh, very interesting people. So yeah, that's my grand hope for it is, you know, I sell, sell one or 200, um, make this production run, uh, get the, yeah. An opportunity to sort of host a contest. Like world first is going to get a prize. I'm still working on that. I'm thinking pure silver key.
[00:21:47] Cause that's neat to me. Uh, and isn't it so expensive that I can't make it happen. Um, but yeah, if I really need, you know, if I can't into my machining time, then maybe just a cash prize, like here's 5% of the profits. Uh, but yeah, it's one of my favorite things that a lot companies ever done and nobody really does it anymore.
[00:22:09] So I want to sort of bring that back even in a limited capacity because I'm not making a ton of money. Um, but yeah, so it'll be release still happened probably in the first couple of days, I would think. Uh, and then that person will get a prize. And then I'm really hoping for like a, just a wave of feedback.
[00:22:33] Like this is terrible. This could be better. Um, this is cool, but why don't you change it to this? And then once I have all of that input alongside, uh, finishing Bravo, I can, I can take those changes into consideration remodel alpha, and then, um, I'm going to put it through a second filter, which has all the locksmiths that hang out and say, what would it take to make this, um, viable for installation and a door?
[00:23:00] You know, what's, what's the industry standard for, and I've started these conversations, but what's the industry. And then for, let's say a full, a full mortis lock in the door, what are the steps mentions? What are the existing, uh, like generic hardware strike plates, so that, so that I can match this thing to that.
[00:23:20] Um, and then my, my vision for it is that it will become a truly nasty Lock, uh, with everyone's yeah. Input. And, uh, my intention is to switch from breast to steel, which will allow me to effectively double the elements inside of it and make it truly, uh, truly a nightmare to pick blind. That's sort of like the, you know, five, 10 year plan is turned this thing into a monster, make it out of steel and then sell it to the world.
[00:23:54] Could be interesting. I don't do we use many mortis locks here? I haven't really seen any in a long time. Yeah. They're not, they're not nearly as common as you know, more to cylinder as this these days. Um, but they fit pretty well in solid wood doors. So if you're looking at, um, larger building complexes, you're looking at, uh, really nice houses, um, you will see them.
[00:24:25] So it's, it's more, it sort of depends on the region. That's how it goes. Um, and who, who dominates that region. But, um, slag makes a lot of them and sells a lot of them. I actually didn't know that. Yeah, there, they are very, very uncommon though. As far as like the entire country of America, you're not going to see a ton of them.
[00:24:50] It's mostly mortises and rims or to cylinders, but it's a lot harder to fit something, um, evil inside of that form factor. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. You have to have a lot better tolerances, small machining to get something in a traditional cylinder. Yeah. You're also, you're just unable to make the components as strong as I, as I would like.
[00:25:17] Um, you know, you see most of these locks, they have six, six or seven pins in them, and then they've got, you know, either sliders or finger pins or something else going on on the sides of the bottom and what you wind up with because you're limiting yourself to that format is. Uh, a lock that even not a steel is just weaker because it's got so many holes in it and all the components are so small, even though they're steel.
[00:25:43] They're very small. So, um, while it does pretty well at defeating brute force, it's not going to defeat drilling. It's not going to be a pain to drill, whereas, uh, you know, a full mortis body, where are you going to drill? Is the question like, and if you drill out the center, is that going to do anything?
[00:26:03] And this lock the answer's no. So you would have to know exactly where to drill, which is kind of the point, right? You want that to be a, a locksmith secret, um, you know, at least somewhat guarded. So if somebody comes up to it, they don't get through it in the first 10 minutes. Yeah. That's something a lot of us in the Locksports world, don't, don't focus on that destructive entry in the real world is a.
[00:26:30] A serious concern. That's a real thing. Yeah. That sort of bridges over into, uh, almost how you would think about designing a safe, right. Because when it's a criminal versus a safe, you know, that they have to drill it. So the question is how well can you hide the things that they need to hit and how well can you protect them with other locking systems?
[00:26:50] So, um, I kind of stole a little aspect of that, but just for the practical world application side of it. But right now it's practical for nothing like the form factor of alpha right now is like, it's a it's rectangle. Like you could, you could put it essentially mounted in a, like a fancy trunk, which was, uh, one of my early ideas, uh, like an old style wooden trunk.
[00:27:15] I thought that would be neat to have an old style key for it. Um, you could use it on an internal door if you really wanted to, but right now it's not prepared to be your house Lock. Let's say. That being said, it's not that far off either. So once I have a better idea of what I'm going to do to improve the mechanism, then that's going to come along with it in the second round.
[00:27:39] So do you have a proposed price on the pre-order? Yeah, I've been trying really hard to keep it at 125. Um, that's what I've been telling people for months now. And I think even if brass prices kind of forced me up a little bit, I might just take that hit because, uh, I hate the bait and switch. Right. It's more important for me to be able to say, like, I was aiming at this and I hit it than it is for me to say, I've got that extra, you know, a couple thousand dollars.
[00:28:14] So, um, and that being said, I really don't know how many SL, so at the end of the day, uh, I think 125 is, is more. It's more approachable than 150 let's say or higher. Um, so obviously, yeah, I get that, but at the same time you have to value your work. You've put a lot of work into this and you've bought some expensive equipment to do it.
[00:28:40] Sure. So, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's a struggle for me. Um, it is, for a lot of us, we have a very different mindset than a lot of the usual business type. Yeah. I mean, I seeing that, the comments and how much time you've been working on this. So yeah, it's, it's eaten much of my life for the last year. Uh, August 4th, tomorrow is the anniversary of that, that mill showing up to my garage.
[00:29:13] So that's why I chose it as a release date. And that's what I'm sort of stuck on. Not moving it. Yeah, I don't, you know, I didn't know anything about milling before I got it. Uh, what, uh, you know, a couple of weeks of YouTube videos continue and, uh, I went into it well, unprepared, let's say I had no idea. Um, just how complicated machining can be.
[00:29:45] And man, I, I feel like I've learned a book's worth of information in the last year from, just from trial and error. Like after the first couple of months of watching YouTube videos and trying to take people's feeds and speeds and stuff, I realized like this is never going to work long-term I have to actually figure out how to do this.
[00:30:05] Um, and some of the guys said discord have been really helpful with that. Um, just in the right direction, showing me what a, what a decent tool looks like, you know, who I could buy from, um,
[00:30:22] Yeah. I don't know. We have some experience machining people in there don't we? Yeah. Yeah. Um, most for the most part they're amateurs, but there are a few professionals. Um, well, not sure, no Sue or however you want to say his name. Uh, albeit KRAS is, has been very helpful to me, uh, at a couple of critical moments, you know, like, uh, I first I spent that first couple of months just making pinning trays.
[00:30:50] I was like, that's an easy thing. I can, I can knock that right out and that'll teach me how to use my tools and this and that. And boy was I wrong, sit down and, uh, tried to makes, uh, tried to make some aluminum trays. And they were just coming out like garbage. I went through, I must have ruined 50 of them before I finally got one.
[00:31:11] I was okay with selling. Um, so. That's another lesson that's worth putting out there for anybody listening. That's thinking about this path prototype and something other than the metal that you're choosing to use, uh, because you will waste a bunch of money doing it. Like the number of just, uh, either ruined or incorrect, incorrectly dimensioned, alpha parts laying around my house in brass is absurd.
[00:31:40] Uh, I had a couple buddies up from, uh, Portland for, uh, uh, Locksports meetup, not that long ago. And just, I was like, here you go. You can have the shuttle. Cause I don't want it. I don't want to look at it. Uh, so wasted, you know, 20 something dollars worth of brass. It's a, it's a fairly large component. So what, uh, is there good price on scrap breasts?
[00:32:06] So you could maybe resell some of your mistakes as scrap. Yeah, I haven't, uh, I haven't. Bothered to do that work yet. I'm saving most of my breasts. I actually have sold, uh, just a bunch of ruined pieces, uh, two people, because they wanted them for some reason, um, you know, like half finished trays, like I had, I had one more, there's like two, two micro trays, but there were still like brass connecting them and there's damage to them and stuff.
[00:32:37] Uh, but that's, you know, that's part of why I love it. This community too, is they're so supportive that you almost have to tell them when they're being overly supportive. Um, and it's like, I don't want to sell you this. It's just garbage. That's literally scrapped. And they're like, no, it's got part of a tray in it.
[00:32:56] I'll take it. So, uh, but yeah, I stopped stomach and trees until the locks are done. Uh, I just, can't, I'm one person, you know, I don't have enough time to do both. So. Do you have an estimate? How many hours it takes you to make one individual alpha? I don't have an exact number because I don't want to look at it.
[00:33:24] Um, but the reality is some of these parts take two hours. So, um, it's going to be a mountain of work to make even 50 of them. Um, that being said, I'm prepared to do that work. Um, this is, this is w w you know, it's a lot more about the passion for me than it is the money. Like I just, I want to manifest a lock in the world and say, Hey, look, there's a luck and it's different.
[00:33:54] And it's interesting. And even if it's not hard, it's something, you know, uh, and it's you and the expression of your, yeah. I don't know how to say it, but if it weren't for you coming up with the idea, having the will to do. Yeah, it just wouldn't exist at all. So that's good. That's really cool. Something that you can claim completely is your little stake in the world.
[00:34:18] So yeah, that'd be my people. Sorry. I was just going to say it'll, it'll finish my, uh, that'll be my epic quest for my second round of black belt here.
[00:34:34] How are people going to be able to pre-order the alpha, uh, it'll just be on my website. Uh, you go to Digby locking tool.com and I'll put a listing up for it tonight sometime. And it'll be very obvious on the site tomorrow. Uh, the way I decided to do it is that I'm going to open the gate to everybody at the same time.
[00:34:57] Uh, then I'm just going to notify people. At different stages of time ahead of time. So like, if, if I've known you for four years, I've known you for three years, he'd been a steady customer. You've been very supportive. I'm going to give you a little bit more notice about what the actual time is. So you have a better chance of snagging an early serial number, cause they're all going to be serialized.
[00:35:17] So I think that's the fairest way to do it. Like if you're, you know, maybe you're a new guy and you're just really interested, you still have a chance to get number one, if you're sitting there waiting for it. But, um, I don't imagine very many people will be doing that. There might be a few of the core Lock Pickers United.
[00:35:37] If they know that what the general date is still probably be sitting there refresh, refresh, come on. I sat down and made a table the other day of, uh, time zones, trying to figure out like. Is there a time that is not inconvenient for at least one major group of people. And there isn't, there's no way around it.
[00:35:58] So this, this group is so diverse. We've got people all over the place and people working different shifts and yeah, so basically the, what I figured out is if you do it early morning in any given time zone, it will be a midnight release. And then in another time zone that's, but you can actually fit it into one day if you choose carefully.
[00:36:29] Um, it's just, there's no winning basically. So you're going to be selling it through the, the Digby locking tool site. Um, what is your, um, curious about how the, the Digby lock-in tool site came up? Was that in anticipation of the locks and the trays, or was that something bigger that you were working on it?
[00:36:56] Yeah, that was, um, that was indirect response to the trays coming to fruition. Um, so once, uh, once I made a tray that I felt was good, um, a bunch of people in the discord said, you should make them out of brass. And I said, okay, well buy me some breasts. And they did, they got together. And like the next day they bought a big old bar brass.
[00:37:22] And I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm making brass trays now. Um, and it was just fun to see them come together on something. They like, they all wanted some brass trays. So, um, after that happened, I was like, this is cool and all, but if I'm going to be making tens 2050 of these a hundred of these, I don't want to, uh, Be spending all my time on the computer, on USP s.com filling out, um, filling out, uh, shipping labels.
[00:37:55] Right. So partly because I wanted to legitimize the business, partly because I wanted shipping to be way easier, um, where everybody, they just puts their own information in and it spits out a label on mine. And, um, and I guess sort of, sort of just out of belief in myself that after these trips, I'm going to make something that will sell well and that I'm going to need a business framework to be able to hang handle that, um, and be legal about it too.
[00:38:26] You know, like there's a, there's a certain threshold that you hit on PayPal as an artist or, um, as a hobbyist. And once you sell so much a dollar amount, they report it to the IRS. So you might as well, you know, make a business. So I, I formed an LLC. Just to, you know, protect me and my family in case anything goes wrong along with this, you know, for whatever reason, I stepped on some company's toes and they come after me for something.
[00:38:54] Um, but that's a good idea. I don't foresee that happening. Um, if I try and play the high set game, I might wind up stepping on somebody's toes. Um, not intentionally, but it may happen. They might, I, you know, I might get a cease and desist or whatever, but really what it boils. If you have spent any real time trying to design a lock, you'll realize that pins and wafers and disks and finger pins and sliders, they're all sort of the same thing in the end.
[00:39:25] Right. Um, if you take a finger pin for example, and you widen it out well, now you've got away for that. If you, you know, if you take a slider and sliders and things, your pens are basically the same thing already. It's just the difference of where the nub is on it. Um, so a lot, all of these elements, uh, view, change dimensions, or axis of rotation or movement, um, you realize that they're all sort of the same thing.
[00:39:52] So if you try to make something original, you either have to find a geometry that doesn't exist, or an axis of movement that hasn't been used with that sort of geometry. So, um, I'm up to the challenge. I'm sure there's something out there that's super impractical that nobody's making because it's impractical and I'll take the time to do it because it doesn't exist yet.
[00:40:13] I know. Yeah. When you work in just as a kind of a labor of love, that's different than I want to make a fortune as a locked company. Yeah. I can get away with it because I can, it's my time. I'm wasting, you know, nobody's going to hit me for it. So, yeah. So I was also curious how the, uh, On Digby locking tool, how you came up with the multi-pack setup or do you actually have an agreement with them or are you just having to buy them and resell them?
[00:40:43] Yeah, I'm an authorized reseller. Um, I, I, I got to the point where I started making trays and, uh, my hope was to turn my site into, and it still is down, you know, down the road over time, uh, was to turn that site into a place where you could go and get the best quality stuff, uh, in and out in one shop, in a one-stop shop.
[00:41:09] And I've got everything I need for Locksports. I've got tweezers, I got followers, I got a pending trade. I've got pics, got tensioners case, so on and so on. Um, but only the best stuff and no filler. And I knew that I wasn't going to be making pics anytime soon because milling them is silly. Um, that's something that you're either going to stamp or waterjet or laser cut.
[00:41:35] Once I reached that determination and I had the trays in place, I thought, okay, well, picks is next for sure, because you need picks to do anything with picking who makes the best stuff. And, uh, so it was sort of a conversation. I opened a conversation with, uh, Andy from all our tools, uh, with sparrows and with multipack and, uh, you know, I'm not gonna lay out exactly what happened in those conversations, but multi pick.
[00:42:04] Um, I think at first wasn't really interested. Um, but I happen to know somebody that works with them. And I guess there was a conversation there maybe. I don't know. I don't know for sure. Uh, but yeah, they agreed to let me be, uh, an authorized dealer for the states. And, um, so basically, you know, I order them in and.
[00:42:29] I've cut them down. I could be marking them up. What, well more, you know, the, you compare my prices to, I think there's two other sites on the states itself. I'm, uh, I'm undercutting them by quite a bit, because again, it's not about the money for me. I'm trying to bring tools to the people. So like, these are the, well, I built the sets that I did there.
[00:42:49] They're minimalist in nature. These are the hooks that you need to do the tension wrenches you need and nothing else. Uh, if you want a bunch of rakes and some other stuff, then you have to buy it somewhere else. Sorry. Um, so, and then the, uh, the cases here. Oh yeah, yeah, the Moki cases. I, I just love them.
[00:43:10] Um, that was, uh, that was a disc, uh, discord deal. I saw, I saw them come about, um, wow. That was over a year ago now I think. But, uh, I'm gonna, I'm going to botch his name. He says it's Mo Katy, Texas. Um, and he is a picker from Germany and he makes these things, he sold them, Paul himself, um, gets materials and makes them from scratch.
[00:43:42] And they are, are easily the best case that I've run across in my picking career. So I talked to them about, uh, selling some for him through assignment, just because it's easier. And it's, we'll make you more money if you move a bunch of products, right. Once just for the shipping alone. Um, and there's a large market of pickers in America.
[00:44:03] So I went to him and said, Hey, do you want to, do you want to sell some Amir cases on consignment through my store? And he said, yes. And so I brought them in and then, uh, we kinda worked together once I decided that I wanted to make those minimalist kits to, uh, make a smaller pouch just specifically for them.
[00:44:22] And, um, it's been a great deal. I really like working with him. He's very understanding. We both respect each other's timelines and, um, we're both one man shows, so yeah, they're very good looking cases. I've never seen one in person, but I've seen your pictures. And I think I saw one on somebodies YouTube channel.
[00:44:46] Yeah. Um, I am a sucker for quality. I like things that'll last a long time and I'm they do I still a long time. And then you also have the remaining stock of the impressioning handles from yeah. Yeah. It's similar deal, you know, re uh, rubber band got out there and created a thing he thought would be a useful for the Locksports community.
[00:45:13] It was absolutely right. And, uh, so I set up the same sort of deal, you know, like I'm not, I'm not trying to make money off of his product. I'm just trying to get it in people's hands. Um, I'm getting ready to put the, the same day tomorrow when alpha launches, I'm going to be putting up, uh, some pending trays from, uh, duck facts to he's got some really nice wood ones that he makes.
[00:45:38] And, uh, I've got a deal in the works with Mao or Mo however, you'd like to say it and he's, he's gonna give me, oh, wait, you said his name? Oh my mama. Papa mama. Been waiting for an excuse to use that. Yeah. Well, since we're getting silly with it, this was a perfect time to say that bunks told me he'd give me $5 if I said Lock stick.
[00:46:05] So there you go. Box. Uh, uh, have you ever seen the lock stick? Yes, it's hilarious. It is drilled a hole and I'm in a tree branch put a lock in it. Uh, I noticed recently that there were some, uh, he like need some pins onto the side of it with a sidebar too. I don't know what the purpose, but it's art, you know, so yeah.
[00:46:29] I actually mentioned it in one of my early episodes shortly after he made a video on it. Nice. Yeah. I'm not gonna mention his name again, so we don't have to hear the sound clip, but that was supposed to be getting a, uh, a good load of his trays too. They're just, those are awesome trays and using them for two years now, I bought a bunch of them when we started the LPU YouTube for giveaways and stuff and gave away a ton of them.
[00:46:55] And I've kept like three, I think myself. Um, they're, they're really good trace and they're cheap. Yeah. They seem to be really popular. I see a lot of discussion about them on their straight utility that lasts a long time. That's that's exactly the that's right up my alley. That's what I want people to have in their hands for Locksports.
[00:47:16] So yeah. How much is he getting for those? Or how much are you going to be? Um, I'm pretty sure he sells them for like we're in between 12 and $15. Like really, really afforded very reasonable. Then you look at it and you think, okay, well that's plastic or whatever. It's a, I can just 3d print it. But the reality is you can't, um, you can't easily 3d print that geometry.
[00:47:41] That's got some features to it that just don't come out. Right. I tried, uh, I have a resin printer and, uh, it works and also the track doesn't come out. Right. Uh, but it's also, it's better plastic cause he casts them. That's not a 3d printed thing. He casts them out of. Some sort of hard, hard resin, so that's cool.
[00:48:04] That's everybody nowadays is into the 3d print. Everything. It's not the best solution for everything, not the best solution for most things, but it will allow you to, yeah. I got my, a resin printer specifically to prototype with. Uh, and then when I realized that things are not going to come out on dimension and fit together and work like a lock should work, that you will have to tweak the model to make it actually fit together.
[00:48:31] I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to make it out of brass until it works and then sell some try and recoup the, all of the chips that I just wasted.
[00:48:42] Yeah. So 3d printing is a, it's a bit of a nightmare. I don't know if you ever saw it, but, so that's the Locky award that I was doing last year, which I have to change because. I'm pretty sure that would get me in trouble, uh, legally. Um, but it took me months to get these to print right on my cheap 3d printer.
[00:49:06] I can imagine that's a lot 20 each one. I ended up with such fine printing and going so slow to get it to come out like that. That's that's a six hour print, set it up, go to work and come back and hope it didn't viral. A lot of control somewhere along the way. Yeah, I did. I did that last night with wafers or ran out of time and I was like, man, I got to go to my day job, but I worked night shifts.
[00:49:33] So, uh, I was about halfway through a set of wafers and I was like, Hmm, I'm pretty sure this is safe. And I just left. So that's the cool thing about CNC is once it's, once it's running and you're confident that nothing's going to break, you can just let it go. So got all the passed down and everything.
[00:49:53] I've never done CNC how a metric is it to, to figure out tool paths and all that stuff? Um, it's not, we do a lot of it where I work, but I'm not in that department. So I've never seen. Yeah. Yeah. So the only thing that I can speak to is, um, working with fusion 360, right? So, um, I think most professionals are using solid works or some other, uh, proprietary stuff.
[00:50:23] Most of them that I know of, at least, I know personally don't use fusion at work, but, um, fusion does a great job of helping you with tool paths. It figures out the paths for you, but what you have to know is everything else. So if you feed it incorrect information, your tool path will be wrong and you will break tools and you will ruin parts.
[00:50:49] Um, and that's exactly, that's like the essence of machining. Right. You know exactly what to tell the machine. It will do it right every time. But if you miss even one thing out of the hundreds that will ruin it. So, um, that's yeah. Have to be very detail oriented. You have to be willing to sit there and use the cash circulator.
[00:51:12] Um, and I am a very patient person sometimes, so I will jump on there. I'll model something and I'll say fusion, figure it out for me. And it doesn't work like that. Right. Um, it'll get you close sometimes. Uh, and then you gotta, you know, start tweaking it and make sure that you're not going to break it cutters.
[00:51:34] And, um, I sort of, from the beginning, just decided to go with carbide tooling, um, because it's, uh, it's the best, right? So it's, it's the best cutters that you can get. For most use cases. And since I'm only thus far been milling, aluminum and brass, they should theoretically, last forever. Um, that being said, I can tell you from experience, if you use them incorrectly, they do not last forever.
[00:52:03] Uh, I use them incorrectly often and they break and, uh, um, and whatnot. So, um, so how hard it is it, I wouldn't say that it's hard to learn machining. I would say that it's going to take you a long time. Um, I have, uh, I have eaten entire subjects before entire hobbies. I like research. It's fun for me. Um, machining is not something you can do that with it's it's going to take you months, uh, to have a functional understanding and it's going to take you years to actually master it.
[00:52:42] I've got a great deal of respect for people that are actually machinists. I w I wouldn't Dane to call myself one and yet, because, uh, I still make a lot of silly mistakes. Um, do you have to think about everything you can't be like, it's such a thing. It seems so simple from the outside, right? Like you're telling a tool you're in a coordinate system, your X access Y access to the access.
[00:53:04] So you're going to, this tool is going to move from this point in space to this point in space. It's just a, it's just a gray, right? No, um, there's, there's feeds there's speeds. There's tool geometry, the tree there's number of flutes there's Heights. There's a cutter versus material. There's do you blast it with air?
[00:53:26] Do you flood it with coolant? Um, there's so much to understand about it, and I'm still sort of at the surface level, I'm able to make things that I want to out of breath. Um, but that being said, brass is the easiest thing to machine in a world that is it's literally called free machining brass. Um, the grade that I'm using, it's 360.
[00:53:53] Um, so to anybody out there that wants a challenge, that's, that's a, that's a challenge worth taking on it'll really, really improve your ability to, um, think through everything before you do. Uh, because carbide tools ain't cheap. So you break one and you're like, well, there goes 30 bucks every time you make a mistake, there goes 30 bucks, 50 bucks, depending on the size.
[00:54:20] Wow. Yeah. Um, that being said, it's a whole lot of fun to like you explore it and you find reasons to try out new tool paths, new tools. Uh, it's still a regular occurrence for me where I'm like, man, I wonder if I can even make that geometry. And I started sort of looking around and I realized that there's a tool out there that I didn't know exists.
[00:54:43] Um, like this Lock was struggling pretty hard. It was, it was actually going to be a bunch of pieces, sort of bolted together, screwed together. Um, and then when I discovered that they make larger size Woodriff cutters, which are basically like a circular saw at a 90 degree angle, uh, it changed everything.
[00:55:03] I, I was able to combine seven parts into one. Oh, wow. Just from that, just from knowing that that tool existed. So, um, yeah, it's really fun. And I think over time, you'll see, um, not only the quality of my products improving, but the. Um, the complexity too, like right now, this is, this one is very dimensional.
[00:55:29] It's, it's very much about X, X, Y, and Z axis, uh, because that's how a male likes to work. So I chose geometries as I was going that are mill friendly. Uh, but down the road, I do want to make, you know, standard more to cylinders with high security components in them. So I'm going to have to get better first and then I'm going to have to get better machinery eventually.
[00:55:53] So your particular mill, is it just like, can I do good round products or is it more it's capable, but it's not what it's designed for. Right? So if you want round things away, this is where you need to be. Um, that being said, you can use a boring bar for inner and outer dimensions. You can. Well for inner dimensions, you would just drill a hole in agreement.
[00:56:20] It was, Bremer's a real good at producing a consistent, uh, inner diameter hole, uh, but, and use a boring bar sort of incorrectly in a mill and spin it on the outside of a piece and wind up with a round yeah. Piece. Um, and then your third and not as good option is that you can interpolate, you can interpolate things to be round.
[00:56:42] So you can take a tool and helix it down around the house aside, uh, outside diameter. And it will wind up pretty close to round, but reality, what it is is thousands of facets. It's thousands of flat cuts, angled cuts. Um, so then it's really a question of how round does it need to be, because when you get real close to round, it rotates just fine.
[00:57:07] Um, that being said, if you want a high security level tolerances, Thousands of flat faces. Doesn't cut it. So, um, that's definitely a barrier that I have to find my way around. Um, and one of the others, a lot of intricate, little round parts and parts that are round on part and not on another part in some of these really high security locks, that's a lot of, that's true.
[00:57:40] We want to think about what you'd have to go through to work each one of those. And the it's sort of a, it sort of works both ways, right? So they make them all, all these rounded parts because they have the machines to make them rounded. Right. But because I don't, it actually plays in my favor because if I want to make a slider, um, it's not going to be perfectly round.
[00:58:01] It might be semi round with a flat on it. I might start with bar stock and then flatten one edge, or I might make a, uh, a square with rounded corners cause mills do that. Um, and then I automatically and bypassing all of the patent infringement stuff because I've made a totally new thing at that point.
[00:58:22] It's a different geometry. It might provide, it might, you know, perform the same function, but it's going to have to do it differently because it's a different geometry. So that's a good point. If I step into, uh, doing padlocks or doing door hardware or whatever, I can really make that shape, whatever I want, it just needs to be placeable into the standard.
[00:58:43] So, uh, instead of making round mortar cylinders, I could make square ones with rounded corners. Cause the mill does that really well. And as long as it fits into that same space and interfaces correctly, it doesn't matter. So yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of ideas that I've been playing around with and I'm hoping that, you know, people will, uh, will respond to the, to this lock and, uh, respond to the idea.
[00:59:09] I'm well, open to ideas. Like I'm always listening. I constantly try and poke people in the discord and say, you know, this AOL I'm bored. Or, um, I don't know, what's a model next or whatever. I'll say design a lock. Like that's a, that's a real challenge. I'm not joking. I'm not being sarcastic design a Lock.
[00:59:28] It's really fun. It's also really hard. And if you make something cool, then maybe we can work together. So cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, very, you know, I've come up with some high-level ideas and then just go, Nope. Couldn't even begin to make it next. Well, that's, you know, cause it's fun. It's a fun thought experiment, but I don't have the time or anything to, to actually carry anything out.
[00:59:54] So I just kinda, I draw them up crudely on paper and stick them on a posted on my wall. Sure. But yeah, I'd love to see your post-it wall. Sometimes there's some really strange stuff. Yeah. Um, Yeah, it's, it's a fun, I think it's something that everybody starts to do when they really get into lockpicking is trying to think of ways to prevent what you're currently exploiting.
[01:00:20] Sure. Wallet. I did this maybe. Yeah. That's a, that's a very common theme. You see, uh, people come in and they get to the green belt stage and like, all right, I gotta make a challenge. Like, but I'm not just going to make a challenge lack. I'm going to make the nastiest dirtiest, most evil challenge, lack of all time.
[01:00:38] The number of times I've seen that happen as, uh, in the thousands now. Uh, and I enjoy it every time because I've, I've walked down that exact same path, you know, is I want to do this. Here's YouTube videos. Here's the subreddit. Now the discord now challenged locks now, high security. Uh, and then a lot of people leave at that point or they'll.
[01:01:01] They'll hang out and pick like a million black belt locks, like a monitor darkly or a CJ or captain hook geo you know, like these, these guys that just murder high security, like it's nothing. Um, and I've got a lot of respect for them, but I'm not them. I'm not that talented with picking. So once I got there, you know, I've, I've gone back and picked a couple more black belt locks, but, um, that's not what I want to do anymore.
[01:01:27] I want to make them. And that's, that's the fun for me is it's like it's taking the belt system and challenge locks and putting them together and saying, I can make a bunch of the same Lock so that you can all a compete with it. Be telling me how to make it better and see have fun doing it. Um, so I hope that it works.
[01:01:49] You know, it is what it is. I'm gonna, I know I'm going to be battling tolerances all through this run because it's not a quarter million dollar machine. It's less. But that's fairly capable. It gets, it gets very close, close to the standard. I would need to do high security. So I'm hopefully going to make enough locks, uh, enough locks and enough lock models that where the tolerances don't need to be sub thousandth of an inch, uh, that I can then eventually afford one of those, uh, more expensive VMC, vertical milling machines, uh, vertical milling centers and, and start putting out true high security out of, you know, stainless and at least steel, you can start making hardened padlocks and, um, but that's, you know, that's years down the road.
[01:02:40] I've, I'm, I'm still in my, I'm still under contract with the Navy for foreseeably the next seven years. So, um, I'm going to be doing, doing this as often as I can on the side. Wow. With all the other things I have going on in my life, I've been doing it as often as I can and slowly building and trying to create a repertoire of, uh, of models.
[01:03:05] And then, uh, when I'm free, free from the, uh, from the Navy, that's when you'll see me really take off, I'll hopefully I'll have, uh, some better tricks, some better tools and a lot more knowledge by then. So. Cool. Yeah. So how can people find you? Why don't you give them a, uh, I'm super easy to find if you're in the discord discord server that is linked to from the subreddit.
[01:03:31] I am no longer on Reddit. Um, and I don't participate in Twitter. I am on Facebook, but I'm only in one block sport group and a lock Smith group. But yeah, the easiest way to find me is to just jump in the Lock Pickers, United discord, uh, I'm happy to take direct direct messages. Uh, if you want to email me about something that's serious, like, you know, you have some sort of a business idea.
[01:04:02] Uh, you can hit me at, uh, Timothy dot Digby, Digby locking tool.com. Uh, and, and that's your, your store, right? Digby lock-in tool.com. Yep. That is they can find your locks and your other products there. Yep. This at this stage, it's really just going to be my locks for a while. And then, uh, other people's products that I'm sort of forwarding onto the community, try and get them out, anticipate going back to making some trays at some point, or is that part?
[01:04:36] Yeah, I'm not done with that. Um, I really, I enjoy that and I think that, uh, The more I learn, the more innovation is allowed there. Um, I chose them because I thought that they would be simple. I was wrong. Um, they are a simple thing to machine. Don't get me wrong. I just didn't know how to do anything. Um, but then I made them double-sided and that was fun.
[01:05:01] And I've been toying around with lots of different ideas about, you know, they could be stackable, they could have lids. There's, there's all sorts of things that we could do with it. But, um, I like the, the nature of having something made out of shiny brass and being serialized. So I might just go right back to that same pattern and say, okay, here's number, whatever, through whatever, sort of do it in between lock runs.
[01:05:29] Good news. I've done kind of when I can afford to, I've been looking at buying one because I really liked the brass ones. They're really pretty. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate that. That's. It's one of those things. Do I really need it? No, no, it just looks so good. Nobody needs it, but it's a pound of brass and it's so satisfying.
[01:05:51] It's like every other printing tray I've had you, like, you're on, you got your elbows up there. Right. And you bump it and it just like everything shakes around. If you bump one of those, nothing happens. I accidentally hit the edge of it and it flips up and it tosses your pins across the table. Yeah. It barely even moves.
[01:06:08] It just looks at you like, Hey, what are you doing?
[01:06:14] Um, yeah. So I think that's probably all the questions I had for you. Is there anything else that you wanted to discuss while we're on here? Open stage? Um, no, I think I'm good. Um, I do, I do want to encourage anybody. That's listening one more time. Uh, if you know how to do video editing. The Lock Pickers, United YouTube channel could really use some help.
[01:06:40] Um, it's just one guy holding it down and, uh, it's unfair, you know, it's, we all know are kind of like trying to find videos to shovel to him and then he has deal with it all. Um, so if you know, if you have any audio video editing experience, it's not super complicated. Usually they were just putting a, like an intro and outro on it and bouncing sound.
[01:07:03] Uh, if you know how to do that, please hit us up in the discord and, uh, we'll make you up you contributor and you can help that way. We can get a more regular your schedule up. Now, YouTube hates it when you only put up a video every couple of weeks or every month or so. They really like it. If you're putting out multiple videos a week and with the number of pickers that we have in the discord, we could make.
[01:07:27] A video a week, two videos a week, pretty easily. There's people creating content all the time. Um, we just don't have enough, um, help for op-amp with the, the editing heavy lifting. So that's the last, last sort of thing I'd like to plug and just feel bad for the guy he's doing all that work. And no one knows.
[01:07:45] So yeah, it definitely shouldn't be all on one person. I noticed that that things tend to get that way. Sometimes one person steps up and everybody else goes, oh, to handle. Yeah. Yeah. That was some, I listened relisten to your chat with tumbler last night. And it's that, that's exactly how it goes with the mod team too.
[01:08:07] We bring in some new guys and then everybody else was just like, okay, finally, I want to take a break. Now you nailed it right on the head. That that's how it happens. New mods come in, they do the heavy lifting. Then they become old mods, the new mods come in and do the heavy lifting and so on and so on.
[01:08:22] Um, yeah, mostly I just kind of play around in there. It's kind of human nature. Yeah. To be honest, it's fun to be silly when you're machining all day.
[01:08:35] All right. Well, I really appreciate your time. And, uh, I look forward to seeing the locks hit, hit the other pickers and seeing what they, what they work like and how long it takes somebody to the first one. Yeah. I just hope it's not the first day, but I appreciate you having me on and giving me the chance to, to talk to your listeners.
[01:08:58] It's fun pleasures all on this side. I don't think I've ever actually talked to you before, before, you know, you first asked to come on. So I'm in voice chat all the time. So come hang out. Sometimes I rarely am. Yeah. It's a dangerous game. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this conversation with digs.
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