1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:25,039
[Applause]

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:28,000
[Music]

3
00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:31,800
cool awesome um well thank you so much

4
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,800
uh yeah really excited to be here and

5
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,840
first of all I just want to thank um

6
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,640
Manera Topia and everyone within the

7
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,000
Monera Community for the opportunity to

8
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,680
speak on something um that's a little

9
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,559
bit spicier I guess a little bit more

10
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,280
controversial um um but yeah so super

11
00:00:45,559 --> 00:00:50,320
thankful uh today going to be discussing

12
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:53,160
um the zcash Development Fund um

13
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:55,320
providing somewhat of a defense for it

14
00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:57,559
but also really highlighting areas that

15
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,079
I think it can improve um because I

16
00:00:57,559 --> 00:01:01,239
think there are a lot of gaps and a lot

17
00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:03,480
of areas that need to address within

18
00:01:01,239 --> 00:01:05,640
zcash um so yeah going to be talking on

19
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:10,200
that today um couple disclaimers before

20
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:13,200
I get into it um I have worked um I am

21
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,799
working have worked or have you know

22
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,520
done Grant proposals for organizations

23
00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:20,840
within the zcash Development Fund so I

24
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:24,479
am a bit biased so take my bias for what

25
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:26,119
it's worth and also um my everything I

26
00:01:24,479 --> 00:01:27,799
say here is going to be my opinions and

27
00:01:26,119 --> 00:01:29,920
not opinions of any of the organizations

28
00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:32,240
Affiliated affiliated with the zcast

29
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,680
Development Fund um and also not going

30
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,280
to be speaking too much on Monero

31
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,640
funding mechanisms just because I'm not

32
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,840
super well versed in them and I don't

33
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,479
want to speak on things that I'm not um

34
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,520
well educated on so a little bit about

35
00:01:43,479 --> 00:01:48,159
myself before I get in my name is Ian

36
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,719
and I'm currently working um with a

37
00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:52,479
company in the ethereum space and I also

38
00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:55,240
have a research Grant with the zcash

39
00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:57,520
foundation um I also created a open

40
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,280
source project called zob which received

41
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,200
a fund which received a grant from the

42
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,119
zcash grants program and I was also a

43
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,520
former employee with um the electric

44
00:02:04,119 --> 00:02:07,159
Coin Company so as mentioned I've

45
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,280
touched every part of the Development

46
00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:11,720
Fund so um so yeah let's get into it the

47
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,200
first thing I just want to cover for

48
00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,599
those who aren't familiar and I'll be

49
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,920
very quick quick with this because I

50
00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:18,040
would imagine that most people here know

51
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:20,319
what this is um yeah what is the zcash

52
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,400
Development Fund so it's this fund that

53
00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:24,280
issues 20% of mining rewards to a

54
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,480
community development program and it was

55
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,360
established in 2020 to replace the zcash

56
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,040
founders reward which was a 20% um block

57
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,120
reward there was allocated to projects

58
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:36,360
Founders so I think with this block

59
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:38,599
reward a small percentage um of it let's

60
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,800
say 6% of the block rewards went to the

61
00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:42,360
electric Coin Company and the zcash

62
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,159
foundation and the majority of it went

63
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,640
to a group of 44 people who were early

64
00:02:45,159 --> 00:02:49,319
investors um employees and founders of

65
00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,360
the zcash project so somewhat of a

66
00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:54,040
controversial and kind of Novel funding

67
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,959
mechanism and in 2020 the community

68
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,280
decided to enact a new funding mechanism

69
00:02:55,959 --> 00:03:00,159
called the zcash development program um

70
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,680
where 40% of that fund goes goes to the

71
00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:05,159
community grants 35% go to the electric

72
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,159
Coin Company and 25% go to the zcash

73
00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:10,159
foundation for protocol development and

74
00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:15,400
adoption so that that kind of equates to

75
00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:18,040
I think 8% to zcg 7% to ECC and 5% to ZF

76
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,840
of O of overall um block

77
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,680
rewards so the question is why why would

78
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,959
you implement this so the the the

79
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,640
founders reward which I don't want to

80
00:03:23,959 --> 00:03:27,000
speak too much on because I wasn't

81
00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:29,280
around in zcash when that was

82
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,319
implemented but it was to incentivize

83
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,799
builders to stick around the project not

84
00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:35,319
kind of operate like a pump and dump

85
00:03:32,799 --> 00:03:37,799
scheme and to incentivize long-term

86
00:03:35,319 --> 00:03:39,680
development of the zcash protocol um and

87
00:03:37,799 --> 00:03:42,159
why the zcash Development Fund you know

88
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,040
was kind of put in place was because you

89
00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:46,720
know the because these are baked into

90
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:50,040
the um the protocol you know after a

91
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,040
certain period during the

92
00:03:59,879 --> 00:04:03,920
blog post reaching consensus on the

93
00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:05,640
electric Coin Company website and there

94
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,079
was this idea that you know there was it

95
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,400
wasn't unexpected because they knew it

96
00:04:07,079 --> 00:04:11,720
was coming in 20120 but there was an end

97
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,480
to funding within within the zcash um

98
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,280
ecosystem so people felt that the future

99
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,919
of the project was uncertain you know

100
00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:19,519
ECC and ZF were not going to be

101
00:04:17,919 --> 00:04:20,959
subsidized so the question was are

102
00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:23,000
community volunteers going to pick up

103
00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:24,919
the development of the protocol now

104
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,600
something I will acknowledge that this

105
00:04:24,919 --> 00:04:28,440
blog post left out is that there are

106
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,280
alternative funding mechanisms outside

107
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,800
of a Dev fund um so they did leave that

108
00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,440
out in my opinion but this was kind of

109
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,600
the sentiment within the community is it

110
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,720
going to be Dev fund or nothing so the

111
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,240
question that was asked by ECC is is

112
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,520
anyone going to be incentivized to

113
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,680
advocate for zcash at exchanges wallets

114
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,479
regulatory bodies and is the digital

115
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,120
currency with strong privacy protection

116
00:04:46,479 --> 00:04:49,400
is going to survive during a time when

117
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,280
people feel that the government and

118
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:54,400
large corporations are infringing upon

119
00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:56,160
fre Freedom security dignity and consent

120
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,960
um so this was kind of the overall kind

121
00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,120
of sentiment of is there going to be a

122
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,919
debt fund or not is the zcash project

123
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,960
going to kind of progress or not and I

124
00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:05,560
will acknowledge as well again that I'm

125
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,960
not saying that zcash or Monero are

126
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,240
better one's better than the other I'm

127
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:12,120
just kind of presenting the information

128
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:14,360
for the argument here um so the thought

129
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,880
was kind of at zcon one where Zuko

130
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,120
presented this in in cro show was there

131
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,840
was kind of these three funding

132
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,400
mechanisms that could have been

133
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:24,680
implemented um you could have stopped

134
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,800
receiving Founders reward money and each

135
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,039
company had like Runway so five to six

136
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,240
months Runway during the time so you

137
00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:33,960
could stop receiving um de um Founders

138
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,400
reward money and you could kind of

139
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,479
extend your Runway not grow your company

140
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,360
and therefore become maintainers of the

141
00:05:38,479 --> 00:05:41,720
protocol now again I would argue during

142
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,600
the time they probably could have sought

143
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,520
out other funding mechanisms but this

144
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,000
was the argument that was presented so

145
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,639
we can maintain the protocol but not

146
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,919
further development the other option was

147
00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:55,600
we can um look to build other things and

148
00:05:52,919 --> 00:05:57,039
receive other um funding Alternatives

149
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,000
which would likely mean that these

150
00:05:57,039 --> 00:06:01,960
companies would build on other protocols

151
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,160
and perhaps not direct all of their

152
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,560
attention to zcash and then the third

153
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,440
was going all in on zcash and advocating

154
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,400
for a new development funding model

155
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,000
which is what um the electric Coin

156
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,319
Company at the time known as the zcash

157
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,360
company and the broader Community um

158
00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:18,680
decided to go for I will acknowledge

159
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,319
that there was a kind of community

160
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,400
sentiment process put in place and the

161
00:06:21,319 --> 00:06:25,880
majority of the zcash community through

162
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,240
these Community sentiment processes did

163
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,120
voice that they were in favor of a zcash

164
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,560
development funding model

165
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,400
um whether those sentiment Gathering

166
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,800
mechanisms were as decentralized or

167
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,759
representative to the community at large

168
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,560
um were they effective of that I I can't

169
00:06:38,759 --> 00:06:42,240
answer that but the sentiment gathered

170
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,160
through these mechanisms did show that

171
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,240
people were in favor of a Development

172
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:50,960
Fund model so what are the kind of

173
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:52,960
highlevel arguments for a zcash Dev fund

174
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,479
model the arguments given is that the

175
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,479
project is more sustainable and there's

176
00:06:54,479 --> 00:06:59,720
more financial incentivization for

177
00:06:56,479 --> 00:07:01,440
Builders within the protocol so the

178
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,440
argument is that zcash has produced a

179
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,759
lot of cuttingedge cryptography and has

180
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,280
done a lot of great development in the

181
00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:09,160
zero knowledge space and they are word

182
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:11,879
world class builders in the zcash

183
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:14,319
community that would likely be able to

184
00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:15,960
um find work and employment on other

185
00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:18,400
projects if there wasn't a financial

186
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,960
incentivization within zcash so by

187
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,319
dedicating their lives to zcash there

188
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,319
needs to be some Financial reward and

189
00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:25,039
some Financial incentive to do that so

190
00:07:23,319 --> 00:07:27,039
there is an argument that there's that

191
00:07:25,039 --> 00:07:28,759
to there's that incentivization to

192
00:07:27,039 --> 00:07:30,720
retain Builders or retain talent to work

193
00:07:28,759 --> 00:07:32,360
on the zcash program protocol and it

194
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,400
also provides the protocol more

195
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,199
long-term sustainability and longer term

196
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,680
funding models than other funding models

197
00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:40,360
that are available in the space um it

198
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,680
gives protocol development teams the

199
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,360
ability to think longer term So In

200
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,479
traditional Grant models a lot of Grants

201
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,840
are you maybe maybe one to two years at

202
00:07:46,479 --> 00:07:51,400
a time Within zcash These are done every

203
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,560
having so four years um at at the

204
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,280
current at the current rate so people

205
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,360
are given four-year time Horizons where

206
00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:00,039
they can acquire a lot of you know US

207
00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,919
dollar value worth of zcash and can

208
00:08:00,039 --> 00:08:04,560
build long runways and um can kind of

209
00:08:02,919 --> 00:08:06,000
long-term think about the project and

210
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,960
how things are going to look out in five

211
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,639
10 20 30 years the argument is that this

212
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,159
slows protocol development and doesn't

213
00:08:10,639 --> 00:08:14,919
bring it up to speed but um the argument

214
00:08:13,159 --> 00:08:17,000
I guess the counter to that would be the

215
00:08:14,919 --> 00:08:19,159
zcash team can kind of focus on putting

216
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,680
out really sound code and really really

217
00:08:19,159 --> 00:08:22,199
sound protocols that aren't um

218
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,159
vulnerable to attack or things of that

219
00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:25,280
nature so these are kind of the

220
00:08:23,159 --> 00:08:26,599
arguments that are in place for that and

221
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,720
then the last is that it gives the

222
00:08:26,599 --> 00:08:31,360
opportunity for um the community to be

223
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,080
to hold the protocol teams accountable

224
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,839
and not Venture Capital firms who might

225
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,680
have misaligned incentives so for

226
00:08:34,839 --> 00:08:41,000
example if you buy a zcash coin you're

227
00:08:38,680 --> 00:08:42,719
injecting liquidity into that market

228
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,159
you're you know providing you know US

229
00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:45,800
dollar value to that market and are

230
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:48,440
affecting the price actions through your

231
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,519
actions therefore because you're giving

232
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,800
zcash because you're a part of the

233
00:08:50,519 --> 00:08:54,760
ecosystem giving zcash value you are

234
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,560
therefore directly funding the teams

235
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,920
that are building on the protocol so

236
00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:00,320
zcash does have this environment where

237
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,480
protocol team teams and core development

238
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,079
teams do answer to the community and

239
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:08,519
have to keep some level of transparency

240
00:09:05,079 --> 00:09:10,000
um up with the community um and that is

241
00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:11,399
something that's been in place and

242
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,800
something that people feel is a really

243
00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:15,480
good aspect of this um and it also keeps

244
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,000
kind of the incentives aligned with the

245
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,519
coin holders and the people developing

246
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,680
on the protocol so these are some

247
00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:22,360
arguments that are in favor for it but

248
00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:26,519
some arguments that are against it and

249
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:29,200
these are ones that I'm not super um I I

250
00:09:26,519 --> 00:09:30,959
don't agree with it like at a I I agree

251
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,640
with like conceptually but in practice I

252
00:09:30,959 --> 00:09:34,800
don't necessarily agree with them but

253
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,519
they are kind of arguments that come out

254
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,160
a lot in the community and other places

255
00:09:36,519 --> 00:09:41,000
and other other ecosystems as well so

256
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,880
the first one is tax on Miners and users

257
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,440
so this is kind of one I struggle with

258
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,480
and I can definitely see both sides to

259
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,680
this argument the argument that I've

260
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,240
been told why it isn't a tax is because

261
00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:52,120
it's voluntary so when you're buying

262
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,760
into the zcash ecosystem and buying the

263
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,519
zcash coin and becoming a part of the

264
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,079
project you are consenting to the fact

265
00:09:56,519 --> 00:10:00,160
that there is this funding model in

266
00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:02,800
place and if you want to be a part of

267
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,720
this ecosystem you can easily opt out

268
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,200
and move on to another you know project

269
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,040
in the Privacy space that doesn't have

270
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,440
this type of funding model so I I kind

271
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,079
of see that argument where people are

272
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,240
like it's not a tax because it is

273
00:10:12,079 --> 00:10:17,399
voluntary and tax is involuntary by

274
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,880
Nature kind of the better argument and

275
00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:22,360
the better perspective that I would

276
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:24,279
personally look at it is that by

277
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,000
providing price by providing you know

278
00:10:24,279 --> 00:10:27,680
liquidity into the market and being a

279
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,839
part of the ecosystem that funds the

280
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,399
zcash protocol development teams you

281
00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:34,200
were entrusting them with your

282
00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:36,040
investment in a way and you're kind of

283
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,519
you know not incentivized to kind of

284
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,720
build on things yourself because there

285
00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:42,000
is a funding model in place that that is

286
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,760
giving teams the opportunity to build um

287
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,079
that is directly kind of funded by the

288
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,800
protocol and the price of the coin so

289
00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:50,360
you're kind of entrusting a team to kind

290
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,399
of build on this technology and if

291
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,440
they're not successful then you're going

292
00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,360
to be kind of hurting in the end as well

293
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,519
as them but yourself as well so there's

294
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,480
kind of two arguments I wouldn't

295
00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:01,480
necessarily look at as a tax but ites

296
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,200
kind of put kind of the control of the

297
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,040
investment more into um um the teams

298
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,279
building on the protocol rather than not

299
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,920
the other argument is that it

300
00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:10,200
centralizes control for protocol

301
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,120
development and this is one that I'm

302
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,680
actually in agreement with because if

303
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,839
you look at the current structure of the

304
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,920
zcash Development Fund there's three

305
00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:19,600
organizations who receive funding and

306
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,120
one of those organizations the community

307
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,600
grants program rolls up to the zcash

308
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,639
foundation so there's only two legal

309
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,440
legally like um domicile or like legal

310
00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:31,120
organizations that are receiving funding

311
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,440
and they're both domiciled in the United

312
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,399
States so it might not necessarily

313
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,200
centralize let's say the number of

314
00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:39,320
developers or builders on the protocol

315
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,600
because people can apply for funding via

316
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,600
the the grants programs but it does

317
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,639
inhibit people from let's say for

318
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,320
example countries that are um sanctioned

319
00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:50,240
by ofac are not able to build on the

320
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,120
zcash protocol because all of the dev

321
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,920
fund funding goes directly into um us

322
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,440
domicile organizations and that is a

323
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,639
major issue in my opinion within Dev

324
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920
fund discussions that are currently

325
00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:01,560
happening right now because as a

326
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,040
community we're discussing what the next

327
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:05,120
Dev fund is going to look like if we

328
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,519
have one and what it would look like um

329
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,240
coming in 2024 during the next having

330
00:12:07,519 --> 00:12:10,680
we're saying that a lot of community

331
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,800
members are recommending that two more

332
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,399
organizations receive funding so

333
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,160
dividing up the P even further and then

334
00:12:15,399 --> 00:12:19,000
also that those two organizations need

335
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,440
to be domiciled outside of the United

336
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,720
States so there is an acknowledgement

337
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,839
within the community that this is an

338
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,279
issue and there are currently

339
00:12:22,839 --> 00:12:26,560
discussions on how we can mitigate that

340
00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:28,440
um and then the last one is there's

341
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,800
negative price impact on the coin due to

342
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,680
20% of these coins um block rewards

343
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,160
being allocated for Fiat liquidation to

344
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:37,040
fund the operations of these three

345
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,480
organizations and to fund grants and Etc

346
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,519
um I don't know if I necessarily agree

347
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,199
with this one because you know zcash

348
00:12:40,519 --> 00:12:45,440
mining isn't Asic resistant and it is

349
00:12:43,199 --> 00:12:47,079
largely centralized at this point and I

350
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,600
would imagine that most of the miners of

351
00:12:47,079 --> 00:12:51,199
the zcash protocol are liquidating funds

352
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,399
um to support their operations so the

353
00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:54,880
kind of the argument that I've seen in

354
00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:56,360
the forums recently as well is that you

355
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,079
know even though these coins are being

356
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,199
liquidated to fund development they

357
00:12:58,079 --> 00:13:02,959
would largely be liquidated anyways if

358
00:13:00,199 --> 00:13:04,760
we did not have um the current structure

359
00:13:02,959 --> 00:13:08,320
in place so these are the arguments at

360
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:11,199
large against the dev fund model and now

361
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,920
for my arguments um and kind of concerns

362
00:13:11,199 --> 00:13:15,160
with the dev fund model I think the

363
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,880
first is it can create a lack of urgency

364
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,240
due to this this idea of security and

365
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,480
sustainability and I don't mean a lack

366
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,600
of urgency with the protocol development

367
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,360
teams because if you look at the zcash

368
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,399
protocol and a lot of the technology

369
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,079
that's been built um especially the

370
00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:32,600
technology that's been using that's been

371
00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:34,320
used by other projects in the ecosystem

372
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,680
there is a high level of urgency there's

373
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,480
a high level of talent um and there's a

374
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:41,000
high level of production with teams

375
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,680
developing on the zcash protocol my

376
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,839
concern is kind of what I mentioned

377
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:47,160
earlier is that it creates this divide

378
00:13:44,839 --> 00:13:50,240
between coin holders and

379
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,399
investors um per se and users versus

380
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,199
teams that are building on the protocol

381
00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,440
because there's no incentivization for

382
00:13:54,199 --> 00:13:58,680
someone to voluntarily contribute

383
00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,680
therefore there's a lack of urgency as a

384
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,720
coin ER to actively try and and and and

385
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,440
create change because you're kind of

386
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,279
giving the torch to these organizations

387
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,639
who are funded when and you're not

388
00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:12,120
funded because it's kind of like this

389
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:13,959
funer versus funded um divide and for me

390
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,720
which is the biggest problem with this

391
00:14:13,959 --> 00:14:17,560
entire funding model is that it limits

392
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,800
opportunities for people to contribute

393
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:22,160
to the protocol kind of take a stake in

394
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,519
their own investment and their own usage

395
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,920
and further um it discourages voluntary

396
00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:28,000
contribution and this is kind of the

397
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,720
point I want to I want to talk about the

398
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,560
most today um during this talk um and

399
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:35,519
something I'm trying to bring up in the

400
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,240
zcash community right now because if you

401
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:39,360
look at the current funding model it's

402
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,320
not just for let's say developers and

403
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,519
engineers and people maintaining the

404
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,480
protocol it's also for things like

405
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:49,440
marketing um Global regulatory relations

406
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,560
US policy work it's also for things like

407
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,199
Partnerships and advocating for zcash at

408
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,040
exchanges centralized or decentralized

409
00:14:54,199 --> 00:14:58,519
um and also Partnerships with other

410
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,320
protocols this is all done you know by

411
00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:02,279
organization who are receiving um de

412
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,639
fund money and it further extends into

413
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:07,680
things like on the grounds Grassroots

414
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:10,199
adoption um um education projects

415
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,360
podcasts Etc if you kind of go into

416
00:15:10,199 --> 00:15:13,720
zcash Twitter um this is a really good

417
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,800
example and you kind of see the most

418
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,399
active account I would say 90% of them

419
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560
um the ones who are very active in kind

420
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:21,800
of talking about zcash every day maybe

421
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,880
this isn't the right number but kind of

422
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,720
seems that way 80 to 90% of them are

423
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,240
maybe recipients of the zcash

424
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,199
Development Fund even if you don't think

425
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,720
they are um because things like the

426
00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:32,279
global ambassador program and all these

427
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,600
different things have created an

428
00:15:32,279 --> 00:15:35,199
incentive model to where if you

429
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,079
contribute to zcash there funding

430
00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:39,199
available and you can request funding

431
00:15:37,079 --> 00:15:40,759
and will likely get it the problem with

432
00:15:39,199 --> 00:15:42,839
that is that in my mind it's not

433
00:15:40,759 --> 00:15:44,959
sustainable and it also when it becomes

434
00:15:42,839 --> 00:15:47,120
unsustainable it's going to discourage

435
00:15:44,959 --> 00:15:48,759
voluntary contributors so kind of what I

436
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,079
see in the future is that well the

437
00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:52,000
having the block rewards going to get

438
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:53,600
smaller therefore less money is going to

439
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,720
be put into the protocol if the price of

440
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,560
zcash doesn't appreciate and we're going

441
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,240
to add more organizations so the fund is

442
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,319
going to be further divided so there's L

443
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,360
allocation available for people who want

444
00:16:01,319 --> 00:16:05,800
to build on the protocol so if you're

445
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,639
currently doing something around like

446
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,199
education or something online and you're

447
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:12,000
doing it voluntarily and you see someone

448
00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:13,759
doing it and they're getting paid the

449
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,079
incentive model ties back to the Deb

450
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:17,079
fund and you're going to see that person

451
00:16:15,079 --> 00:16:19,079
and say well I want to receive the same

452
00:16:17,079 --> 00:16:20,480
type of funding because that's fair and

453
00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:22,000
that's the incentive model that's in

454
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,000
place because there's that's just the

455
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,759
way it's been constructed indirect um in

456
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,079
my in my mind unintentionally but that's

457
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:29,519
the way it is so people are going to

458
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:31,199
apply for Grants so what you're kind

459
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,720
starting to see in the zcash community

460
00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:35,440
is that everyone who comes into to the

461
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,880
zcash community and starts contributing

462
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,800
largely has this idea in this goal to

463
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,800
one day be a part of the zcash

464
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,120
Development Fund and the current state

465
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,199
allows for that because there's enough

466
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,880
funding available but the problem with

467
00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:48,639
that long term is that when funding

468
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,720
shrinks up and we eventually get rid of

469
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:52,920
a Development Fund a lot of people are

470
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,680
going to stop receive receiving funding

471
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,079
and they might quit their advocacy for

472
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,639
the zcash protocol um and then people

473
00:16:57,079 --> 00:17:00,240
who come in and don't receive grants or

474
00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:01,680
don't receive funding at all might be

475
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,000
disincentivized to continue

476
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,559
participating in zcash which creates an

477
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,360
even more isolated Community um so what

478
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:10,959
I'm starting to see right now is that we

479
00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:13,400
don't have enough um incentives to

480
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:15,120
voluntarily contribute I created a

481
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,640
project called Zeo to create those

482
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:19,120
incentives but eventually all the

483
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,959
volunteer voluntary contributors and I

484
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,919
had conversations and they decided that

485
00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:25,160
it would be best that the pro the pro

486
00:17:22,919 --> 00:17:26,400
program received funding so even a

487
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,720
project that was intended to be

488
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,080
voluntary ended up receiving funds via

489
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,360
the zcash um development Pro um fund

490
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,600
through zcg so there are some really big

491
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:37,559
concerns here that we need to address

492
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,280
and in the current discussions um need

493
00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:41,039
to be aware of as we as we talk about

494
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,720
the next Dev fund and all of these

495
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,600
discussions are ongoing and after the

496
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,320
after the um talk here I'll link the The

497
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,880
Forum posts where people can follow

498
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,600
along and what I'm starting to encourage

499
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,600
people within zcash is to start looking

500
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,440
at how the Monero Community um how a lot

501
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,400
of Monero community members are just

502
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,320
voluntarily contributing and relying on

503
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,120
things like Community donations which I

504
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,919
think is a very good model for things

505
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,840
like Grassroots adoption podcasts Etc

506
00:18:03,919 --> 00:18:09,520
because one it creates more of an

507
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,080
incentive Mission alignment incentive

508
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,120
but also longterm it's much more

509
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,240
sustainable because this funding model

510
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,840
cannot exist forever um and the last

511
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,360
thing is and this is a very like minor

512
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,440
thing but organizations who denominate

513
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:22,720
in Ze can be hit really hard during like

514
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,440
price volatility so for example Ze Hub

515
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,919
has an open source Bounty program where

516
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,039
if you do a newsletter for example you

517
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:31,000
can make a $25 Bounty paid in Shield of

518
00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:33,000
zcash um these types of programs who are

519
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,640
denominated in Ze so we when we raised

520
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,480
that Grant we raised it at like 280

521
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,640
zcash coins versus a Fiat amount um so

522
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,520
when we raised it it was $155,000 and

523
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,039
now the grant is worth $111,000 because

524
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,840
the price is depreciated so the funding

525
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:50,280
model um because people are so used to

526
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,080
like Fiat um denominations when it's

527
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,640
denominated in Ze you kind of lose a lot

528
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,240
of purchasing power and ability so

529
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,960
that's an issue as well so kind of

530
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,559
solutions that we talk about with these

531
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,440
problems is if you look at things like

532
00:18:59,559 --> 00:19:03,799
retroactively rewarding Builders that's

533
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,520
something that's starting to um be done

534
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,159
in the zcash community so for example

535
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,760
doing the zcash spam attack that's been

536
00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:11,440
happening over the last year where um

537
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,880
people have been filling blocks of

538
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,880
transactions uh a developer um at a

539
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,960
zcash fork created a wallet in a wallet

540
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,520
syncing mechanism that performed well

541
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,600
during the spam attack and won the

542
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,159
majority of wallet like market share for

543
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,840
zcash wallets and instead of being they

544
00:19:24,159 --> 00:19:27,600
were they were not funded by the grants

545
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,799
program so they were not a wallet um

546
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,120
company that was being active funded so

547
00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:32,799
because they built the best product they

548
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:35,120
were able to retroactively request

549
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,919
funding and receive that um for building

550
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,720
the best prod product so that for me

551
00:19:36,919 --> 00:19:41,679
instead of kind of funding projects on

552
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,240
the basis that they might succeed

553
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:46,960
retroactively funding projects um

554
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,480
retroactively funding them gives

555
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,960
projects an opportunity to build the

556
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,640
best solution and then request funding

557
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,840
for it and that comes with its own set

558
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,120
of trade-offs like you're building

559
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,240
something in hopes that you might get

560
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,840
funding um but kind of creating more of

561
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,679
those incentive models might lead to

562
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,400
better output versus um I guess broken

563
00:20:00,679 --> 00:20:05,440
promises per se I think another solution

564
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,120
that we're starting to see um is

565
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,159
creating more programs whose role is to

566
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,120
redistribute block rewards if the zcash

567
00:20:09,159 --> 00:20:13,880
dev fund model is in place so for

568
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:15,600
example um zhub like I just mentioned an

569
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,440
organization that I created which is now

570
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,200
managed by another team has an open

571
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,159
source Bounty program where it takes

572
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,200
some of the block rewards and then just

573
00:20:21,159 --> 00:20:24,400
pays out pays it out to contributors and

574
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,520
complete bounties so that's

575
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,679
redistributing um to people who just

576
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:32,240
complete tasks instead of kind of going

577
00:20:28,679 --> 00:20:34,159
through a salary or Grant process like

578
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,919
the other um other distrib

579
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:37,280
redistributions of the block rewards and

580
00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:38,679
you look at programs like zcash

581
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,960
Foundation has implemented something

582
00:20:38,679 --> 00:20:43,200
called the minor grants program where

583
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,320
you can receive a grant between Z to

584
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,080
$25,000 and they're instead of saying

585
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,440
we're going to hire people to kind of

586
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,720
come in and work here full-time and work

587
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,880
on multiple projects we're just going to

588
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,159
pay grants out to individual

589
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,880
contributors who want to work on one

590
00:20:52,159 --> 00:20:55,480
thing so that's a program that I'm

591
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,480
currently a part of writing a research

592
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,960
research report um that was done through

593
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,480
that program and it's a lot easier to

594
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,520
work on zcash potentially part-time at a

595
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,520
very kind of minuscule level and still

596
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,400
receive funding so that's something I'm

597
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,480
seeing kind of be a good opportunity and

598
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,600
it also is a good thing for localization

599
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,159
of funds so if you want to localize um

600
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,919
Grassroots adoption and you want to use

601
00:21:13,159 --> 00:21:16,400
the de fund model for that you can

602
00:21:14,919 --> 00:21:19,039
create more organizations that are

603
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,720
spread across the world um redistribute

604
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,559
block rewards to those organizations and

605
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,240
then those organizations can further

606
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:27,000
redistribute the block rewards to

607
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,559
incentivize building um kind of

608
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,240
applications or things within those

609
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,720
communities that are much more localized

610
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,039
than than people within the United

611
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,320
States um could could potentially

612
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:37,960
imagine so I think kind of localizing

613
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,000
those those redistributions is important

614
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,400
as well I think one thing that we could

615
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,320
definitely learn from the Monero

616
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,760
Community is

617
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,679
establishing a ecosystem where more

618
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,120
products um can be acquired and more

619
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:51,520
services can be acquired in shielded

620
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,440
Zack So currently if you look at kind of

621
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,320
the the market well a good example of

622
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,520
this is like I tweeted once a video of

623
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,000
me using Monero to buy something and

624
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,120
someone commented they're able to kind

625
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,039
of have 50% of their grocery bill paid

626
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,520
for in Monero and I think that's like a

627
00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:07,039
really cool thing that I don't think is

628
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,000
necessarily available in the zcash

629
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:11,400
community right now um and we don't have

630
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,640
an active kind of like pay with stuff

631
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:16,159
pay for stuff with zcash um in in um in

632
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,200
the community as well so kind of looking

633
00:22:16,159 --> 00:22:20,360
at how other communities have tried to

634
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,919
drive quote unquote like circular

635
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:24,600
economies and economies that are kind of

636
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:26,440
outside of Fiat um we can kind of learn

637
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,880
some lessons on how we can directly

638
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:32,200
accept zcash um in and encourage you

639
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,440
know suppliers and vendors and different

640
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,760
you know service providers to accept

641
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,240
zcash as well so people can become less

642
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,000
dependent on thirdparty applications

643
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,760
with for example a lot of zers use

644
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520
something called flexa which is a

645
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,200
thirdparty application where you have to

646
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,720
kyc um to acquire goods and services and

647
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,279
and that is a good solution in in in the

648
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,240
interim but it's not a sustainable

649
00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:54,679
solution and not an optimal solution

650
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,159
long term so we need to look at how

651
00:22:54,679 --> 00:22:58,600
other communities have done this um and

652
00:22:57,159 --> 00:23:00,760
that could potentially also be Revenue

653
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,559
streams for Builders as well um so we

654
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,559
could potentially move away from from

655
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:06,600
specifically just relying on dev fund

656
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:08,120
and then also begin discussions where

657
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,679
alternative funding mechanisms are

658
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:12,960
discussed we can look at you know kind

659
00:23:10,679 --> 00:23:15,880
of constructing nonprofits that are that

660
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,520
rely on community donations or donations

661
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,279
from Individual parties for example one

662
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,640
of the organizations seeking out

663
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:24,200
Development Fund U money in 2024 is

664
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,559
called shielded labs and for their first

665
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,559
year of operations where they have you

666
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:30,320
know a project leader and then obviously

667
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:32,440
a couple developers they're they're

668
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,159
being funded by individual donations and

669
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,559
have a runway for one year to have a

670
00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:36,840
couple developers on staff and then

671
00:23:35,559 --> 00:23:40,480
we'll look to scale with Development

672
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,919
Fund in 2024 so that's great I don't I

673
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,600
don't think shielded Labs shouldn't um

674
00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:45,640
kind of request Development Fund money I

675
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,720
think that they should have that

676
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,760
opportunity but at the same time can we

677
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,960
think of the the the first model that

678
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,360
they have kind of receiving donations in

679
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,520
scale organizations that way scaling

680
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:58,640
organizations through through profitable

681
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,520
products So currently in zcash I don't

682
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:04,039
think any of the wallet companies have

683
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:05,559
um have for-profit models in place I

684
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:06,600
think kind of figuring out how we can

685
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:09,240
create more

686
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,159
for-profit models would be be would be

687
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,279
optimal and then additionally for

688
00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:16,080
example one of my friends runs a zcash

689
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,760
podcast and his grant that he received

690
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520
was

691
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,320
$6,000 my mind kind of goes well if the

692
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,640
zcash community was longing for a

693
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,080
quality podcast wouldn't the community

694
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,880
be able to raise $6,000 instead of

695
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,039
having to go through the Z the community

696
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,760
grants program in the dev fund so

697
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:33,480
because all of these incentives right

698
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,600
now are so correlated with the

699
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,440
Development Fund model the community

700
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,120
isn't incentivized to actually raise

701
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,279
funds and kind of donate funds to

702
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:44,200
projects they think are worthwhile which

703
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,840
for me it is more of a question of not

704
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,679
centralization but more importantly

705
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,080
sustainability so we need to think of

706
00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:51,520
how we can move past these um move past

707
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,120
the current de fund model and look to

708
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,799
other look to other ways and there are

709
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:56,679
solutions that are being built to work

710
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:58,039
on those things but we definitely need

711
00:24:56,679 --> 00:25:00,120
to scale their efforts and make them

712
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:02,840
more widespread and more widely used in

713
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,399
zcash and to finish um kind of some

714
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,880
points I want to kind of drive home

715
00:25:04,399 --> 00:25:10,039
before we go to Q&A um there are a

716
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,720
number of privacy Technologies um that

717
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,240
have been built by ECC and zcash

718
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,399
Foundation which have been funded by the

719
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,200
block rewards and and the develop um Dev

720
00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:21,039
fund they're being used industrywide so

721
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,960
a great example is tornado cash if you

722
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:26,919
went on the tornado cash website um if

723
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,640
you go on it it it credits zcash for

724
00:25:26,919 --> 00:25:31,679
being kind of the code that inspir fired

725
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,640
the tornado cash um um um application

726
00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:35,720
and protocol so that's one example

727
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,000
within ethereum where the zcash de fund

728
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,640
is benefited um you know a

729
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,720
cryptocurrency ecosystem and if you look

730
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,039
at the the recent release of the Halo 2

731
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,919
Pro Halo 2 zero knowledge proof that's

732
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:47,600
currently be used being used by projects

733
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:50,039
like scroll in the ethereum space and

734
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,880
also um projects like darki so you have

735
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:53,200
a wide array of different um projects

736
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,000
who are you know have different

737
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,720
incentives and different purposes for

738
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,320
for for their existence but they're

739
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,039
using um technology is a part of their

740
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,240
their overall stack that's from from

741
00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:05,880
zcash so a small part of their tech

742
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,159
technology stack is from from um from um

743
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,760
zcash um organizations or was created

744
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:11,279
there so I think these are really good

745
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,120
things and if I've even seen some

746
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:15,320
conversations within um the Monero

747
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,360
Community about potentially using Halo

748
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,399
to Zer knowledge proofs as a part of the

749
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,840
the overall Monero protocol and I think

750
00:26:19,399 --> 00:26:23,039
these are really good things because the

751
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:26,279
majority of zcash um technology is

752
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:27,559
licensed under MIT or apachi 2.0 so I

753
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,919
think these are really good things where

754
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:32,080
the Development Fund is benefiting the

755
00:26:29,919 --> 00:26:33,399
larger um cryptocurrency ecosystem at

756
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,360
large and I think that's a very good

757
00:26:33,399 --> 00:26:37,120
thing and we need to acknowledge that um

758
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,200
even if it's the the model that a lot of

759
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,799
individuals want to participate in and

760
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,520
if you don't want to participate in like

761
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:45,320
my honest you know response is that

762
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,399
there are other options in the

763
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,679
marketplace um where you can kind of

764
00:26:47,399 --> 00:26:51,880
sell your zcash and move elsewhere so

765
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:54,120
for example if I wasn't happy with the

766
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,000
zcash dev fund and kind of the results

767
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:59,440
that it's producing I could easily sell

768
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,120
my zcash for Monero and just and focus

769
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,559
all of my time and energy in the Monero

770
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:05,559
Community um and there are tradeoffs for

771
00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:07,440
that and I would say that people who who

772
00:27:05,559 --> 00:27:09,720
do that you're getting an equally strong

773
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,880
option for privacy privacy preserving

774
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,640
cryptocurrency and it doesn't have the

775
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,159
same model and again trade-offs but

776
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,120
there are options in the marketplace

777
00:27:15,159 --> 00:27:19,120
where where everyone's not bound to use

778
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,520
zcash if they don't like the current

779
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,760
state of affairs and if they don't like

780
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,120
the direction that the protocol is going

781
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,399
and then the last thing I want to drive

782
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:26,880
home which was at the point I was

783
00:27:25,399 --> 00:27:29,640
talking about earlier is that we could

784
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,679
potentially use a culture shift um

785
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,799
within zcash that could Aid with it with

786
00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:36,640
Aid Us in terms of long-term stability

787
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:38,880
we we can have a funding mechanism even

788
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,519
if it's in the at the protocol level

789
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,840
that funds things like core protocol

790
00:27:40,519 --> 00:27:44,880
development and and maintenance but we

791
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,760
as a community need to start

792
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,320
prioritizing um the highest highest um

793
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,159
highest priority items that we need to

794
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,960
have funded and fund those potentially

795
00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:55,840
via the protocol and look at different

796
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,440
ways things like Community funding and

797
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,919
different funding mechanisms for things

798
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,799
like Grassroots adoption marketing comms

799
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:04,480
Etc and I don't mean that we need to cut

800
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:06,360
off funding from all the organizations

801
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,080
and even the organizations that I that

802
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,880
I've worked at and I'm currently

803
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,880
affiliated with but what I'm saying is

804
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,000
we need to kind of have a plan of how

805
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,480
these organizations become

806
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,679
self-sustaining and create funding

807
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,120
models outside of block rewards and how

808
00:28:16,679 --> 00:28:20,480
we can fund as a Community Fund these

809
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,240
these projects and these things to

810
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,720
voluntary contributors and Community

811
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,320
contributors um outside of block rewards

812
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,360
as well so we need to start having those

813
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,720
discussions and look towards a future

814
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:33,480
where one pro core protocol development

815
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,279
is done via the zcash a zcash Dev fund

816
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,720
like model and then eventually an

817
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:39,880
environment where this doesn't exist at

818
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,480
all so these are kind of all of my

819
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,080
thoughts on it the reason I brought this

820
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,679
up today I wanted to talk about this is

821
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,320
because this is an ongoing debate right

822
00:28:44,679 --> 00:28:49,039
now in the zcash community because we're

823
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,600
coming up to our next having in 2024 so

824
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:52,279
I would really encourage everyone here

825
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,720
to follow along with those discussions

826
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:56,440
and potentially offer your thoughts and

827
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,559
opinions and why monero's model is

828
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,799
potentially Superior to zcash because if

829
00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:02,200
you do look at the current rate of

830
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:05,200
adoption I would agree that Monero is

831
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,880
experiencing a um a better um a better

832
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,799
adoption rate so I think kind of

833
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,559
learning from each other's experiences

834
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:12,279
year could be really beneficial and as

835
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,720
long as all the technology that built is

836
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,360
fully open source then it's going to

837
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,039
benefit everyone that's involved in the

838
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,039
ecosystem at

839
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,200
large do you love coffee and Monera as

840
00:29:26,679 --> 00:29:31,919
much as we do consider making gratuitous

841
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,039
dorg your daily cup pay with Monera for

842
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:36,360
premium fresh beans and if you like what

843
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:39,200
you taste send a digital cash tip

844
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,600
directly to the farmers that made it

845
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:44,880
possible proceeds help us grow this

846
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:48,019
channel gratuitous and

847
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,019
[Music]

848
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,880
Monero um these are you know obviously

849
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,720
some of my thoughts and and here happy

850
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,519
to answer some questions um now I do

851
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,919
want to clarify that I'm not the most

852
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:04,559
technical person in the world so if I am

853
00:30:02,919 --> 00:30:06,679
not able to answer your question I'll

854
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:09,799
I'll surely state that um that I'm not

855
00:30:06,679 --> 00:30:11,399
able to so take some time for that now

856
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:14,679
so yeah if I see any questions in the

857
00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:14,679
comments I I'll go ahead and answer

858
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,360
those give it like another 20

859
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,640
seconds so I see a question here what do

860
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,000
you think are or could be the

861
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,279
consequences of having limited shorter

862
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,919
term feedback via the Development Fund

863
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:42,080
um for non-r non-grant recipients like

864
00:30:38,919 --> 00:30:44,519
ECC or ZF so uh and I can't hear you

865
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,960
guys currently um no oh I see you guys

866
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:48,120
popping up

867
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,760
now um from Mexico I see you guys

868
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,600
popping up and can hear you now so I

869
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,320
guess the question here regarding

870
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,080
feedback do you mean like having shorter

871
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,240
time preferences so not being let's say

872
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,159
like four years of sustainable funding

873
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,240
and having maybe shorter term time

874
00:31:00,159 --> 00:31:04,519
differences

875
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:07,360
that I can hear you now yeah okay I have

876
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:10,159
a couple of questions um with respect to

877
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,919
the one is with respect to the Deb fund

878
00:31:10,159 --> 00:31:13,440
and one of the major concerns that we

879
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:16,519
have at least I personally would have in

880
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,840
the mono commit is is how did you

881
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:21,480
respond to regulators and how they

882
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,559
treated you with respect to the Deb fund

883
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,279
and I don't know if you covered that in

884
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:29,919
particular with respect to the fin and

885
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:29,919
guidance of 2013

886
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,399
you're

887
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,799
muted sorry and oh sorry so I'm not

888
00:31:43,399 --> 00:31:46,240
familiar with the fencing guidance but I

889
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,840
just want to be clear are you talking

890
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,440
regulatory concerns with regards to like

891
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,279
Securities laws or are you talking you

892
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,080
know more like OFA sanctions like

893
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:56,639
tornado cash I'm talking about money

894
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:00,080
laundering uh Money Services business

895
00:31:56,639 --> 00:32:02,559
money transmission Securities loss okay

896
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,519
so I think the the first part is the

897
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,919
answer there is and and I saw the

898
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:08,559
question in the chat so I'll I'll answer

899
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:10,799
that as well after this um the answer I

900
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:12,600
would provide there is we can't it's a

901
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:14,480
neutral protocol so we can't say that

902
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,039
people aren't going to use this protocol

903
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,760
for things that potentially governments

904
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:19,519
don't like I think one thing I have an

905
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,159
issue with calling things um moneya

906
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:23,799
laundering or or or criminal activity is

907
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:25,519
that we can't necessarily Define that

908
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:27,519
because jurisdictions change and their

909
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:29,039
laws change so I want to clarify that

910
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,639
but with regards to like the United

911
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:33,679
States the one thing we have to do as a

912
00:32:30,639 --> 00:32:35,279
community is build um more use cases

913
00:32:33,679 --> 00:32:37,159
that are I guess for more normal people

914
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:39,200
so I I think within Monero there's a

915
00:32:37,159 --> 00:32:41,799
website that lists all of the Monero

916
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,080
vendors um that accept Monero within

917
00:32:41,799 --> 00:32:45,480
like non Dart net markets and I think

918
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,880
that building things like that and

919
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,440
having those amount of vendors and those

920
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,639
amount of use cases that prove that

921
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,600
people just want to use um a currency

922
00:32:50,639 --> 00:32:54,159
that provides more privacy is the best

923
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,720
way to combat against regulators and

924
00:32:54,159 --> 00:32:59,360
then also share that like things like

925
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,919
back doors Etc um are just bad for for

926
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,679
National Security because they can be

927
00:33:00,919 --> 00:33:04,919
broken um um if we give someone a back

928
00:33:03,679 --> 00:33:06,320
to door then those things can be broken

929
00:33:04,919 --> 00:33:08,320
so kind of making those arguments on

930
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,440
that side and then again I'm not a

931
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,120
regulator and I'm not a policy advocate

932
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,039
so my my information there is probably

933
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,519
not the best and then the security side

934
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:18,840
of it is that um the zcash community I

935
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:20,080
know I've mentioned here like investment

936
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,279
and there is that side of it in the

937
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,559
token price appreciation but overall

938
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:25,760
people are trying to build something

939
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:28,159
with real world utility that's used to

940
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,519
be you know either a unit of account um

941
00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:33,320
a savings mechanism um things that can

942
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:34,880
be a medium of exchange so and no one's

943
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,440
promising anybody that we're going to

944
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,559
increase their investment by building on

945
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,840
this protocol and I think another way to

946
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:44,240
kind of further kind of alleviate fears

947
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,639
there is by um having more organizations

948
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,639
receiving death fund money that are not

949
00:33:45,639 --> 00:33:50,440
subject to us regulations so those are

950
00:33:47,639 --> 00:33:51,760
kind of the the main points there um I

951
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,399
know those aren't great answers but

952
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,000
those are those are my perspectives

953
00:33:53,399 --> 00:33:58,240
thank you very much my second question

954
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,799
my last question second question is

955
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:04,360
uh what if anything is your thoughts and

956
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:06,639
response on the European Union um micaa

957
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:11,240
which article

958
00:34:06,639 --> 00:34:12,960
763 would technically ban um privacy

959
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:15,280
protecting

960
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,119
cryptocurrencies yeah so I think if you

961
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,639
have something like that in place like

962
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:21,480
regulatory

963
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:23,159
um kind of overreach then you do have

964
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,879
funding models within the zcash that are

965
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,359
dedicated to fight against that and kind

966
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:28,599
of go to like take these take these take

967
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:29,919
take these these regulations to court

968
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:32,040
and fight against them combat against

969
00:34:29,919 --> 00:34:33,639
them but I do also acknowledge the need

970
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,000
for zcash to potentially have the

971
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:37,359
ability to go dark and and kind of be

972
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,399
used in an environment that's

973
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:42,079
adversarial um so we need to build for

974
00:34:39,399 --> 00:34:43,480
both I think the zcash approach has been

975
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:46,560
kind of more to the side of work with

976
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,159
regulators and show them um kind of why

977
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,720
this is a good thing for Citizens and we

978
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:52,520
haven't really prioritized the other

979
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:54,919
side of it but I think there is a

980
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,599
growing sentiment in the community that

981
00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:58,920
we need to be a that we need to be ready

982
00:34:56,599 --> 00:35:00,880
for those types of regul and kind of um

983
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,640
be prepared to use it in the event that

984
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,359
it's made um um banned essentially but

985
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,839
uh for one yeah so from what I

986
00:35:06,359 --> 00:35:09,440
understand the electric coin companies

987
00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:11,560
actively working with European

988
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Regulators are you aware of the

989
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,920
litigation pending litigation United

990
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,839
States that could put um chin analysis

991
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:22,800
on

992
00:35:17,839 --> 00:35:26,400
trial I'm not no okay um because that's

993
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:28,560
actually coming in U pretty soon so I

994
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,280
thought you may wanted to check in that

995
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,880
and maybe find a way you can help the

996
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,720
attorneys involved um

997
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,920
because that information yeah I'll

998
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:39,720
forward that information to um to the uh

999
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,960
to the regulator guys at ECC for sure

1000
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:43,320
I'll get and I'll look I'll look into

1001
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,320
that for

1002
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:49,920
sure awesome

1003
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:53,880
um I think you guys froze up in Mexico

1004
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:57,880
City in the chat can you guys still hear

1005
00:35:53,880 --> 00:36:01,200
me um if if you can I'm go ahead and

1006
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,040
answer this question uh cool so the so

1007
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,319
the the question here was around what do

1008
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,960
you think the consequences are for

1009
00:36:04,319 --> 00:36:07,359
having shorter term feedback by the

1010
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,400
Development Fund for like non-grant

1011
00:36:07,359 --> 00:36:12,880
recipients um like let's say like ECC

1012
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,079
and the zcash foundation so if they

1013
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,880
profail they fail to perform kind of

1014
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:20,760
like up to like a satisfactory um um

1015
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,240
model so that's actually something that

1016
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,800
someone just no one's mentioned that in

1017
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,560
the forums in the recent discussions so

1018
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,640
someone actually mentioned like we need

1019
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:30,680
to make the dev fund smaller to put more

1020
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:33,119
pressure on the organizations um kind of

1021
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:36,400
you know working on it I think that is

1022
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:39,079
actually my idea here would be is that

1023
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,760
if we could kind of decrease the years

1024
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:42,319
kind of guaranteed to organizations or

1025
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,119
kind of create a way for the community

1026
00:36:42,319 --> 00:36:48,160
to reallocate funding so for example the

1027
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:49,240
there was a for post a couple days ago

1028
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,240
where someone in the community

1029
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,359
recommended that the zcash community

1030
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:55,400
grants reallocate some of their funding

1031
00:36:53,359 --> 00:36:57,079
to ECC and ZF because it's not being

1032
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,560
used um so they have a large treasury

1033
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:01,760
it's not being used but that currently

1034
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,440
in in the the protocol consens um

1035
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,480
protocol mechanism is not allowed like

1036
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,680
ECC and ZF are not allowed to receive

1037
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,200
grants so that's kind of the inverse um

1038
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,599
so that's actually being discussed of

1039
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,359
like can we allocate more money to

1040
00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:16,520
developers at ECC and ZF so they can

1041
00:37:14,359 --> 00:37:18,920
work on these problems that's being

1042
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,720
discussed it's not being well supported

1043
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,560
um from my kind of take on it so the

1044
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:26,480
inverse of that is like can we take away

1045
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:28,640
Dev funding um from from organizations

1046
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,280
who aren't kind of meeting meeting the

1047
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,800
standards that are required for them I

1048
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,000
actually think is a great way because it

1049
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,880
can it can hold up um the whole

1050
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,359
organizations to a higher standard and I

1051
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,839
would actually take that a step further

1052
00:37:38,359 --> 00:37:41,520
and say I would be more in support of

1053
00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:44,079
the

1054
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:48,800
organization's um individual kind of

1055
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:50,440
teams and and kind of um let's say uh um

1056
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,040
what's the word I'm looking for kind of

1057
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,359
like individual teams and kind of

1058
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,599
segments of the organization so for

1059
00:37:53,359 --> 00:37:58,079
example marketing Community Development

1060
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:59,760
business uh Partnerships Etc kind of be

1061
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:01,520
held to their own individual standards

1062
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,480
so for example if one aspect of the

1063
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,240
company is performing really really well

1064
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,079
then maybe even maybe even another

1065
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,319
aspect of the company shouldn't receive

1066
00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:10,040
the funding that they were receiving

1067
00:38:08,319 --> 00:38:11,560
previously um I don't know how that

1068
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,920
works in practice and I don't know if we

1069
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,319
kind of have protocol developers and

1070
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,680
maintainers as one kind of organization

1071
00:38:16,319 --> 00:38:20,800
or one entity and kind of have Marketing

1072
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,359
in other organizations as another but

1073
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,200
having a way to kind of

1074
00:38:22,359 --> 00:38:27,000
decentralize um um kind of

1075
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,400
responsibilities and only fund the ones

1076
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,000
that we are performing up to standard I

1077
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,440
would actually probably be in support of

1078
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,960
that and I would agree that in practice

1079
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,680
zcash chain Forks haven't um um kind of

1080
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,079
seen as much activity so we've kind of

1081
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,720
seen that that's not um worked out in

1082
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:46,240
practice as much um yeah um work worked

1083
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,760
out as well so I would agree with that

1084
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,599
idea of kind of holding people to higher

1085
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,200
standards so I'm seeing that Mexico is

1086
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:54,280
having some

1087
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:57,280
problems um see if they have any other

1088
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,280
questions

1089
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:05,880
I can't uh Mexico City I can't see hear

1090
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:08,000
you guys I see you now popped up another

1091
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,800
question we have

1092
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:15,000
here um a question mentioning something

1093
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:17,319
and then we all got cut off um yeah we

1094
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,640
aware of the of the legal

1095
00:39:17,319 --> 00:39:21,960
litigation um with respect to um

1096
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,680
essentially Chan

1097
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,400
alysis and the bitco fog

1098
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,640
case uh and if you would be interested

1099
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,280
interested or with people in the

1100
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,760
interested in the ckash community um if

1101
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,079
the attorneys behind the were to reach

1102
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,839
out to you um if you're interested at

1103
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:41,000
all that's basically my question yeah

1104
00:39:38,839 --> 00:39:42,599
yeah I yeah I heard that bit um before

1105
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,240
you got cut off and I think yeah the

1106
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:49,480
best way is um uh to I I'll put I'll put

1107
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:50,920
my Twitter and my my CC specific email

1108
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,400
in the chat and the best way is like

1109
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,119
kind of I can get the information and

1110
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,599
then I can forward that to the relative

1111
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:59,160
like regulator um Personnel um within

1112
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:00,839
the community and I I'm sure they'd be

1113
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,800
interested in looking at it and and I

1114
00:40:00,839 --> 00:40:04,760
can pass it on to them because I I can't

1115
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,880
directly I don't work full-time in zcash

1116
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,720
anymore I and I'm not even though I have

1117
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,520
a grant from ZF I don't work and I'm not

1118
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,800
a part of the ZF company or team so I

1119
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,240
don't have like direct communic

1120
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,119
communication channels but I do know

1121
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,480
them and have their contact information

1122
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:19,480
I ask the attorneys if they were

1123
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,440
interested in in reaching out to you to

1124
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,680
the seash foundation or to no I if you

1125
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,560
can send me the information I can

1126
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,400
forward it to them for sure for sure or

1127
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,119
I can provide I if you want to contact

1128
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,480
me and I can provide their contact info

1129
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:34,400
as well yeah um so that's a bit tricky

1130
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,160
right now because all the okay so you

1131
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,200
want me to put it in the chat no no I'll

1132
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,599
I'll put my my Twitter and my email in

1133
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,160
the chat and you can email I can email

1134
00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:46,040
you the information okay perfect for

1135
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:49,880
sure yeah I'll do that much um I think

1136
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:54,440
we're running up on time here so I see

1137
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:57,839
um cool yeah I'll I'll do that this this

1138
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,839
is my email

1139
00:41:01,319 --> 00:41:04,520
proton okay that's my email right there

1140
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,520
and my

1141
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:10,440
Twitter okay and there was one last

1142
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:12,800
question I see here um how much of the

1143
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,920
folks T folks tend to not contribute

1144
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,480
without funding Trend you mentioned

1145
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,200
might be addressed by a more open ECC

1146
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,920
and ZF development model one might argue

1147
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,680
that ECC has de closed off their

1148
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:27,720
development process over time or perhaps

1149
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:30,280
ZF as well um I I think that I think

1150
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:33,400
from a developer perspective um I've

1151
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,520
seen that that what that has been the

1152
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,960
case and there's not a lot of like

1153
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,280
developer kits there not a lot of

1154
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,800
developer enablement so for example if

1155
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,079
you want to build like an independent

1156
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,839
application on zcash it's the kind of

1157
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,760
learning curve is quite difficult and

1158
00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:46,760
the barrier to entry is quite difficult

1159
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,200
and I don't know if that's been

1160
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,440
intentional or if that's just been like

1161
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,760
a product of of um like lack of

1162
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,040
attention over a long time I'm not super

1163
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,880
familiar there but I will say that

1164
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,560
there's new new disc discussions that

1165
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:02,839
they that people are trying to start um

1166
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,839
advocating for more open development

1167
00:42:02,839 --> 00:42:06,839
environments and advocating for more

1168
00:42:04,839 --> 00:42:09,040
organizations to to work on core

1169
00:42:06,839 --> 00:42:10,920
protocol development um for example

1170
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,680
there's a cryptography team called qedit

1171
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,280
that's building zcash shielded assets

1172
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,200
for example like wrapped ethereum or WRA

1173
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,680
Bitcoin on zcash there's talks about

1174
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,319
getting them involved with core protocol

1175
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,200
development and having them be a

1176
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:23,119
recipient of the dev fund so we're

1177
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,559
seeing that that that has been a

1178
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:26,720
consequence perhaps of the

1179
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:29,119
centralization vector um but we're

1180
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,079
seeing um we're seeing that that's

1181
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:33,520
trying to be

1182
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:35,040
alleviated um via GitHub issues and

1183
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:39,800
discussions now that's not really the

1184
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:42,079
case yeah I so again

1185
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,280
um yeah okay so you're you're saying

1186
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,680
that like it's currently not a

1187
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,520
collaborative environment it's closed

1188
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,520
off I think that might be due to the I'm

1189
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,359
speculating here I'm probably providing

1190
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,119
not a great answer um I might that might

1191
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:55,280
be to the fact that people have left and

1192
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:56,720
started to build on other projects like

1193
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,000
related to privacy so there's stuff

1194
00:42:56,720 --> 00:43:00,599
going on ethereum there's new layer ones

1195
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,280
happening in Cosmos so people are like

1196
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:05,760
leaving the zcash community because they

1197
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,040
feel it's not moving at either a rate or

1198
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,240
that's not moving in the direction that

1199
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,800
people want so they become

1200
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:11,880
disincentivized because they don't work

1201
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,280
at these companies and they go and take

1202
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,559
either the open source Tech and build it

1203
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,720
on their own platforms or they go and

1204
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:19,160
collaborate with other protocols so yeah

1205
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:20,960
I think people are branching out and

1206
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,960
figuring out new ways so like one of the

1207
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,800
cool projects on Cosmos is like founded

1208
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,160
by like a former ZF developer and a lot

1209
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,960
of like Aztec one of the chief scientist

1210
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,200
say Aztec was actually the person that

1211
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,800
found the zcash inflation bug um

1212
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,640
previous inflation bug back in I think

1213
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:39,480
2017 so people are I think just starting

1214
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:41,119
new things um so the I see another

1215
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,720
question here recipients of the dev fund

1216
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:44,359
need to go through kyc process and

1217
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:47,680
that's not very consistent with privacy

1218
00:43:44,359 --> 00:43:49,680
principles and it limits um yeah so this

1219
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,520
is something I actually tried to fix

1220
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:55,839
when we tried to get funding through um

1221
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,480
uh for the the program that I created we

1222
00:43:55,839 --> 00:44:01,640
tried to make it nonky So currently it's

1223
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,839
a it ended up being domiciled in the US

1224
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,599
um and we we kind of had to do that by

1225
00:44:04,839 --> 00:44:08,559
Design because we wanted to protect the

1226
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,119
people managing the the Bounty pool

1227
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:11,240
because you couldn't do it like a dow

1228
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:13,599
type environment because there's no

1229
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:15,000
smart contracts for Shield of dcash and

1230
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:16,400
there's no way to automate that so

1231
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,839
people have to control it and they're

1232
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,760
you know based in these countries and we

1233
00:44:17,839 --> 00:44:22,680
wanted to protect them there wasn't kind

1234
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:25,160
of an appetite to create the amount of

1235
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,920
funding available to help domicile this

1236
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,880
organization overseas like we explored

1237
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,640
that

1238
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,800
I think people are realizing that those

1239
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,440
types of decisions are really

1240
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,119
detrimental and they're forcing people

1241
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,559
um to have to kyc when they're not

1242
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:39,160
comfortable with it and it's putting off

1243
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:42,200
contributors so for us and for people

1244
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,880
like me we're we're advocating for more

1245
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:48,319
um more we're advocating for people to

1246
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,720
start um um domicil their prospective

1247
00:44:48,319 --> 00:44:52,240
projects potentially in in countries

1248
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:55,000
that have those regulatory environments

1249
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:57,839
that allow for non kyc um acquisition

1250
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:00,240
and non kyc um like earning non kyc

1251
00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:02,720
zcash and I think the other thing is we

1252
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:05,319
just need to create more of a um

1253
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:08,240
environment that that encourages people

1254
00:45:05,319 --> 00:45:09,920
to use zcash peer-to-peer so we can fund

1255
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,280
things you know like Anonymous

1256
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,000
developers can we get community

1257
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,920
fundraising efforts to to help fund

1258
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,040
their own projects and I think those are

1259
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,319
things that like culturally we're just

1260
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,720
going to have to change so to answer

1261
00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:22,559
that question regarding kyc um currently

1262
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,960
the culture is been let's not invest in

1263
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:25,359
it because it's not a priority we're

1264
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,800
starting to see that's a priority and

1265
00:45:25,359 --> 00:45:29,760
that's hurting the amount of people that

1266
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:33,839
want to participate um and the solutions

1267
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:36,839
are domicil organizations that have are

1268
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:38,880
friendly to non kyc um participation and

1269
00:45:36,839 --> 00:45:40,000
acquisition of zcash and then the other

1270
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,720
thing is just creating more of a

1271
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,720
peer-to-peer culture where we can you

1272
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:46,839
know Community fundraise for anonymous

1273
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:49,319
developers and Anonymous contributors

1274
00:45:46,839 --> 00:45:52,240
because sustainably we cannot expect

1275
00:45:49,319 --> 00:45:54,400
everybody to kyc and we cannot expect

1276
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,640
everybody to interact with Z zcash in a

1277
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,200
in a kyc fashion my my research grant

1278
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,920
for the foundation is actually on non

1279
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,520
kyc infrastructure and I'll be

1280
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,599
publishing that on August 1 so um if

1281
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,720
you're interested in that I'll be

1282
00:46:04,599 --> 00:46:08,200
posting that on my Twitter as well um

1283
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:09,359
and I'll be working on that over the

1284
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,760
next three months and probably will

1285
00:46:09,359 --> 00:46:13,440
likely consult the help of the inero

1286
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,520
community around that

1287
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,520
stuff so I hope that answered your

1288
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:24,599
question is there

1289
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,920
anything anything else

1290
00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:33,599
okay great I think we're a little over

1291
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,319
time so I appreciate everyone for the

1292
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,400
questions and the time and yeah again

1293
00:46:35,319 --> 00:46:39,200
thank you mopia for the opportunity to

1294
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,960
to speak on this today and thank you

1295
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,079
guys so much and and looking forward to

1296
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:47,079
to seeing you guys in the the Twitter

1297
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:47,079
sphere so have a great day

1298
00:46:49,380 --> 00:46:59,129
[Music]

1299
00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:09,619
[Music]