Farewell Episode

Kerstin: [00:00:00] Ha. Yeah. I don't feel ready. I don't feel ready. Uh, that's because we're not ready it turns out.

Kerstin: [00:00:24] Welcome to the Fluent Show, a podcast all about loving, living and learning languages, having a wonderful time with languages. And we are here today for our last ever Fluent Show episode. It's a really exciting, special time and I can't do this alone. So first of all. Oh, hang on. I am Kerstin. Hi, my name is Kerstin and I'm from Fluentlanguage.co.uk. And like I said, can't do this alone, can't do this very well either. But you know, this is the third take.

Kerstin: [00:00:54] So here we go. I'm here with my wonderful co-host, Lindsay Williams from Lindsay Does Languages.

Kerstin: [00:01:01] Lindsay, how are you feeling today?

Lindsay: [00:01:05] Hi. Yeah, it's, it's a strange feeling, right?

Kerstin: [00:01:09] It is so weird. It is so weird. I'm kind of excited, though. Now. Now we're getting going.

Lindsay: [00:01:14] Yeah. Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:01:16] So, this is what you don't know is we're recording this on Thursday. We tried recording this on Tuesday, and I think every technology aspect just went wrong. So we've been kind of building up to this a little while, you know, like Lindsay's got the microphone sorted now, we've got a relatively steady Internet connection. At least we hope so. And you know, as you are listening to this, we've got you listening. So what else could we possibly want? And we've got some really fun, I think, conversations lined up that relate to our theme of finishing. What do you think, Lindsay?

Lindsay: [00:01:49] I'm excited. Let's go. Let's do this.

Kerstin: [00:01:52] All right. Okay. Now, one thing I don't want to do, just in case you're like, why? What last episode? If you don't know and you want to hear why, go to the previous episode, episode 239 Bec and I have already kind of talked through it, Bec being my guest in that episode. So we're going to end this on a high. And one thing she said that really I'm surprised. I was surprised by because I kind of didn't expect this many messages. I really received loads of messages from from all of you. So many messages. So I wanted to just give you a big thank you to all of you who have been getting in touch. I'm going to make Linsay read some, I'm going to read some myself. And and yeah, also big shout out to Dan McIntyre and to grammar girl who who are previous guests on the show, as well as Anne and Scotty who you have also popped their episodes in the show notes. So you'll hear all of those.

Speaker4: [00:02:46] Hi, Kirsten. Congratulations on nine amazing years of podcasting. What an effort. This is Penny from Lingo Mama and language chats and language lovers AU. And I wanted to let you know that one of my favourite episodes was your Live Language Party in August of 2018 when you celebrated your 100th episode. Congratulations again.

Kerstin: [00:03:11] Now let me see. Lindsay, shall we do some? Get us in the mood by starting to read a few messages from listeners. Why don't you pick one up? And I think we'll start at the bottom of our little notes document we got Anne herself, and if you grab Katie's message above that, then we're kind of gonna get ourselves in the mood a little bit and pick the ones up. Now, Anne is actually a previous Fluent Show guest. She was on episode 132 talking about language retreats, and I've met her twice when I maet her. Anne says she's immensely grateful, she says. I'm immensely grateful. I discovered your podcast several years ago and soon thereafter was lucky enough to have not one but two German retreats with you. This is true.

Kerstin: [00:04:04] Anne came to the first ever German retreat I did in Munich and then signed up again and came to the one that we did in Hamburg or in just outside Hamburg. So she she came, she studied German. She had some really good conversations. And she says, you gave me the confidence to continue learning and loving languages. And really, that's what I loved about like meeting, meeting this learner. You could see the confidence grow all the way. And Anne has a message, I think, for all of us saying now, in this time of incredibly important world events, it is deeply moving to not only understand live reporting from around Europe. Yeah, but to enjoy my hobbies and passions with voices far away. Your work has made the world a smaller and better place for thousands of people, and that's possibly best of Internet, isn't it? That's the best we can get out of having the Internet.

Lindsay: [00:04:55] Yeah, 100%. And Katie as well. Katie, hello. Says I just wanted to send you a quick message to say a huge thank you for being there with me for the last two years of my language journey. Like a lot of new language learners, I decided to learn a new language, in Katie's case, Swedish. During the first lockdown in 2020. I had not been a learner since school and didn't really enjoy it then, so I had no idea on how to really start or whether I'd actually enjoy it. If I learnt a simple sentence and then just walked away from it, I still would have been proud of myself. However, with Swedish it was different. I was more connected to the language because it was something I wanted to learn. And after a couple of months of feeling pretty alone study wise, I found you, Lindsay, and your amazing podcast and suddenly I didn't feel alone anymore. Although we never spoke, it felt like you were right along there with me supporting my journey. I cannot thank you enough for your podcast and the amazing community you've created. I know whatever you have planned for the future and wherever it takes, you will be amazing. I will continue to listen back on the episodes as there's always something new I can learn no matter how many times I listen to them.

Kerstin: [00:06:02] Katie I think you read out the bit that makes me emotional.

Kerstin: [00:06:07] It's it's so true. And, you know, when you and I like when we're doing an episode together, we're sort of talking to each other and, you know, there's going to be people listening, but at least you're having a conversation. But you and I have both done solo podcasts, so you've had the Teach Languages Online podcast, you've had Language Stories, and I do solo episodes regularly for the Fluent Show. And isn't it the the most rewarding thing when you get a message from someone saying, Well, we never spoke, but it felt like you were there with me because we're just sat here like with a microphone.

Lindsay: [00:06:38] Right, right. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's such a strange thing, kind of talking to yourself. Because even now, when we're doing this episode together, like, we're still sat alone in our own rooms, right in separate parts of the country. And yeah, to know that like A) you're hearing me right now and then B), other people are going to hear us having this conversation later. It's wonders of modern technology.

Kerstin: [00:07:07] I know! Wonders of modern technology and then the the wonder of, you know, someone's voice. And I noticed from, you know, when I was little, I used to listen to the radio a lot. And there is always been there has always been that sort of. Like radio DJs for me, it was radio DJs before and then talk radio. And I was a fan of This American Life, which is a super long running podcast. And probably the first I got into in like, I don't know, 2008, 2007. And there's just something truly special about the companionship of of audio, because it can accompany you in your own life. I think it's I think it's magic. And I love that. I love that we were able to do that for you, Katie.

Kerstin: [00:07:50] So I'm really excited about that.

Kerstin: [00:07:52] Now, while we're talking about wonders of modern technology and amazing people, I want to give a shout out to our sponsor for the last time.

Kerstin: [00:08:01] But don't forget, this app isn't going anywhere. And that sponsor, you all know it hopefully is close master. ClozeMaster is an app that you can get on Android, on iOS and on in your browsers, in all browsers, I think. And it's free to use. So you just give it a give it a good crack, have a good play with it. And ClozeMaster is all about the cloze exercise. Cloze exercise means you've got a sentence in another language and then you will find a gap in that sentence and you either get multiple choice or you can type in the answers. So it gives you different options to work with. And there's also a listening practise option. And the listening practise is you hear the sentence, but you don't see it, and then it just gives you the options of what you think will go into the gap. So it shows you the gap. Then you see the sentence written down and then you get the options of what has to go in the gap and you only hear it once. So it's actually quite challenging and I've enjoyed it a lot with Chinese. It's kind of my if I'm, you know, doing the waiting in line, doing a language app, it's always ClozeMaster. And they would like to offer all of you listeners a big invitation to join their Pro Membership, which is. It doesn't you know, you don't need it in order to use the app. So please go and have a play around with it. But if you want to support the app and you want to unlock special features, there's a 10% discount code. If you use FluentShow@clozemaster.com Then you will be able to use the membership, get 10% off, and you're supporting an independent language app. And we've talked before.

Kerstin: [00:09:41] About how important it is to do that in this space. Lindsay, do you remember when we when we first talked about ClozeMaster?

Lindsay: [00:09:49] I do. Many years ago, it must have been around 2016, 16, 17, because I remember when we discovered as we were recording that they had Guarani and I was like, Oh.

Lindsay: [00:10:00] What? That's so cool.

Kerstin: [00:10:02] Their range of languages is huge. They've got like 50 languages, and because of the way it's set up, you can do you can set almost any language pair to work together. So it's really good for our friends who want to do lots of languages and do laddering. So you could do Guarani from Spanish or Guarani from French or Guarani from Russian.

Lindsay: [00:10:20] Yeah. It's very cool for the language.

Kerstin: [00:10:22] Absolutely is.

Kerstin: [00:10:24] Okay, so head over to clozemaster.com/FluentShow and thank you so much to ClozeMaster for and to Mike from ClozeMaster for having been a true partner and a really true sponsor and helping to show over the last not just year but like even longer. So we've we've worked with ClozeMaster for a long time can't say a bad word about them. So do give him a shout out. Okay. Lindsay, should we talk about final episodes?

Lindsay: [00:10:56] Yes.Okay.

Kerstin: [00:10:58] Do you like final episodes? You know, when like a show or a podcast that you've enjoyed is closing off? What do you like, final episodes? Do you like finishing?

Lindsay: [00:11:08] I think more about TV than like a podcast, and I think there's definitely a distinction between a satisfying final episode of a TV show and like a really. Wow, that was six seasons of my life wasted.

Kerstin: [00:11:28] Very true. Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:11:30] Yeah. Especially with a story. You kind of really waiting for the conclusion. I don't know to what extent we can give you a massive conclusion of The Fluent Show Fluent Show listeners, but I did sort of think about final episodes. Do you have any shows where you really loved the final?

Lindsay: [00:11:44] Honestly, it sounds really basic, but Friends for me is quite an important one because A) I think it was actually quite well done. And I love like the, you know, the very, very end of it where they're in the flat and Do you want to get some coffee and Chandler's like "where?" That's just such a nice end on a laugh. Really, really good. But also because I first saw that episode in French when I was on a French exchange and I watched it on like live TV with the French family. And then in the ad breaks they would ask me, Oh, do you understand what's happening? And I try and explain back to them what was what I thought had gone on. So, yeah, that's that's quite a good one.

Kerstin: [00:12:26] Yeah. What a good memory as well. And I like, I like the sort of the circularity of sort of, you know, acknowledging in a way that like life goes on and we kind of end up where we started in a way.

Lindsay: [00:12:41] Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:12:41] You know. I was thinking about this, but I didn't have to think about this very hard because I have a final episode. It's one of my favourite episodes of of television, certainly, and it's the final of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Kerstin: [00:12:52] Of course it is. I love Buffy.

Kerstin: [00:12:56] But it finishes. They finish it in high school. The show starts in a high school. They finish in a high school, and they've all gone to university since then. So lots of things have happened. But the it closes where it started on the Hellmouth, but there's a speech in it where and yes, there's spoilers in there, spoilers for things that are 20 years old, listeners, you just have to get over it.

Kerstin: [00:13:17] But like there's a speech in it and the theme is that the potential and the power of what made the main character of the show special being the Slayer sort of gets transferred and given to to every one of us. And you kind of you get this really one. Yeah. Yeah. She sort of like they do a bit of magic and it's truly wonderful. And it it makes you cry when you watch it, if you if you're in that kind of mood. But it's sort of it has this empowering message. And if there was anything I would want to, you know, like give to listeners as part of the show, what what I think this show has always wanted to tell you is like, is, is that it's like. This isn't about like a main character or about, you know, I've always said I don't really like doing these interviews of like, how did you become such a genius? Like, I don't like doing that. Yeah, because it is about every one of us and it is about just kind of passing on a power. So there you go. I'm doing a Buffy right now. Not quite as good a speech, but to say, like, you know. This message of the show, this what the show has given you, this feeling of being with Buffy, it's like empowered or with us it might be like kind of empowered, like feeling capable and feeling like you're having fun with languages and you're allowed to do this and it belong to you. And it's not just about being perfect or, you know, getting, getting your grammar right or whatever. That feeling you can have, that you can have, too. You don't need us for that anymore. It's it's in you now, and you become our little beacon of carrying that on. That's quite nice.

Lindsay: [00:14:58] I like that you brought that back to Buffy.

Kerstin: [00:15:01] Yeah. And then I thought.

Lindsay: [00:15:03] I am Buffy

Kerstin: [00:15:04] This is what nine years of Fluent Show was all about. It's me wanting to be Buffy and the rest of my life. Okay, when? What is...Do you have any episodes where you're like, Oh, that was a really bad final that you didn't enjoy at all.

Lindsay: [00:15:22] Ooh. Bad ones. I've never seen it. But I just remember, like, the backlash to the how I met. How I met your mother. How I met my mother. How I met your mother, right. How I met my mother.

Lindsay: [00:15:39] How I met your mother. I just remember like at the time I never really saw the show, but just this backlash of like, oh my God, that was so disappointing.

Kerstin: [00:15:48] It is like when it's when it doesn't conclude, well, it's really disappointing for me. It's Lost. Like I really...Lost is probably one of the first shows where you had sort of people on forums being like, What does this bit mean? What does this mean? And here's a hint and there's a hint and nothing added up in the end. And it all was just.

Kerstin: [00:16:07] Like, Oh yeah, it was actually this thing all along and it just felt like, great. That was really a show where I felt like I've just wasted my life.

Lindsay: [00:16:15] I'm excited to see how they're going to end Riverdale kind of on that vein of like, this happened and this happened and this happened and none of it matters in the end, I can imagine Riverdale is going to go down that same same line.

Kerstin: [00:16:27] They dreamed it all.

Lindsay: [00:16:30] Would not be surprised.

Kerstin: [00:16:31] That's such a copout when.

Kerstin: [00:16:32] Shows do that, where it's like, Oh, it was all just a dream. Now? I do, I did sort of obviously, you know, when the mood of finishing things, I've already given you all the Buffy speech. So you really I feel I feel encouraged. I feel like it's worthwhile. But I sort of thought more about finishing, you know, like and finishing things and sort of a chapter in your life, which for some reason I think it's a post-COVID thing. I really feel at the moment where it's like, okay, we're doing, you know, I mean, I'm finishing a podcast I did for nine years and you might have things in your life that are kind of changing as well. And, you know, just sort of big shifts sometimes happen, right. And I thought about the benefits of finishing say something, right? Not finishing or finishing a chapter like sort of saying, okay, I'm done with this and I want to like actually finish. Like I remember I once quit a job like proper wrote a resignation letter and I didn't even have the next job to go onto. And it, it gives you a sort of scary, weird feeling kind of a thing. So, Lindsay, I'm going to present you with three, three benefits. Let me know if you if these resonate with you. The first one is it gives you an opportunity to make space for moving forward and it creates sort of more new space in your life.

Lindsay: [00:17:49] Yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.

Kerstin: [00:17:51] Have you ever experience that where you've kind of said, okay, I'm done, and then something completely more space happened?

Lindsay: [00:17:59] Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Kerstin: [00:18:00] Do you find that scary?

Lindsay: [00:18:03] I think it can be scary when because like there's this kind of perception that busy is good. And so any idea of making space? When you have not necessarily got anything at that time to fill that space can sometimes be like, woah, right, because we have this kind of social idea of like, every space must be filled. Busy, busy, as is the goal, which just is not true or healthy. But yeah, I think that means that sometimes it can be quite scary.

Kerstin: [00:18:36] I find it financially, economically, like even when I have like money saved and I'm like, okay, cool, nothing bad is going to happen. But I think maybe, I don't know, some people just the way you're brought up or something like that, I'm like, if I don't, if I'm like, Oh, and then there will be this amount of time and I won't have money coming in. I start to get really nervous even even when I've budgeted, you know what I mean? So, ah, so yeah. It's, it's, it's scary, but it does. There's never been a time where I haven't then emerged with better newer ideas that I wouldn't have been able to have. Ok so the second benefit. It gives you the opportunity to draw some conclusions and sort of sum up your learning and review.

Lindsay: [00:19:23] Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:19:24] Right. So yeah, because you've kind of stopped trying to move forward and it gives you a chance to look back. And then the last is a sort of variant of that, which is it gives you an opportunity to reflect on yourself and your own goals and to sort of, well, what did I come into this in the first place for?

Lindsay: [00:19:40] Hmm. Yeah, I agree.

Kerstin: [00:19:42] And I have this Valeria. Who? Valeria got in touch with me on Twitter, and she sent me she sent me a tweet. Okay. This is very this is very 2022. She sent me a tweet. It's actually a screenshot of a Tumblr post. But I wanted to read this out because I kind of thought this was really interesting because it relates to it relates to this idea of finishing. And I really kind of I know in the final episode, she, she she does nothing but talk about finishing. But it's it's kind of something we don't talk about much. So are you ready? I'll read you this Tumblr. Mm hmm. This is from Bright Wanderer on Tumblr. I think a lot about how we as a culture, have turned forever into the only acceptable definition of success. Like, if you open a coffee shop and run it for a while and it makes you happy, and then stuff gets too expensive and stressful and you want to do something else, you close it. It's a failed business. If you write a book or two, then decide that you don't actually want to keep doing that.

Kerstin: [00:20:45] You're a failed writer if you marry someone and that marriage is good for a while and then stops working, you get divorced. It's a failed marriage. The only acceptable win condition is that you keep doing that thing forever. A friendship that lasts for a few years and then it's time is then it's time is done and you move on is considered less valuable or not a real friendship, a hobby that you do for a while and then you're done with is a phase, or alternatively, a pity that you don't do that thing anymore. A fandom is dying because people have had a lot of fun with it, but they're now moving on to other things. I just think that something can be good and also end and that thing was still good and it's okay to be sad that it ended too. But the idea that anything that ends is automatically less than is less than this hypothetical, eternal state of success. But the idea that anything that ends is automatically less than this hypothetical, eternal state of success. I don't think that's doing us any good at all.

Lindsay: [00:21:42] Oh. That is profound. Do you know what that reminds me of? You know the Taylor Swift song, Happiness?

Kerstin: [00:21:51] I don't know the Taylor Swift song.

Lindsay: [00:21:54] Okay, well, it's basically like there was happiness because of you, but there'll be happiness after you, too. So it's like kind of saying, you know, when something ends, it was good, but there's also good to come.

Kerstin: [00:22:09] Yes, Yeah.

Lindsay: [00:22:11] Which yeah, is cool.

Kerstin: [00:22:12] Have to say, I have to say this is something I really thought about a lot. And when you you know, when you think about finishing something like Fluent Show, I did sort of think about well is the success condition for this just that it runs on forever? Cause I'm not like, you know, we're not podcasting something that is finite. We're podcasting literally something that that kind of often we talk about as if it goes on forever. And we often say, like, you're never done with language learning. The implication being, okay, in that case, it's forever and it's like an addition to your life. So I've really thought about, well, if I finish the podcast, like, does that mean. Like you've given up or you failed. And I really like this sort of and I had this from listeners in the feedback, I really felt like so many of you listeners, what you sent in is, is saying, Oh no, but it did all this, you know, and I'm looking forward to what comes next. And I really appreciated that because this is something I'm taking as a personal lesson out of this, is that when you know something, something has had its time and the time is up, that that's not a bad thing.

Kerstin: [00:23:18] It's like an opportunity and a kind of. Yeah, yeah, it's deep, isn't it? So I really liked that Tumblr post. Thank you so much to Valeria for sending it to me and thank you to the person who wrote it. And yeah, so we as a society could do with finishing a bit more. Now, Lindsay in languages we often say you're never truly finished. And many people ask us, I'm sure you get the same questions like, how do I add a language? Or how do I avoid forgetting languages? Like How do I do multiple languages is one of the most common questions that I get like and we don't want to there's a real fear of losing our gains, right? This sort of attrition sense like this attrition isn't ever considered like a good thing, but not even like it's considered something you can game yourself out of, which I very much disagree with. But I wanted to kind of ask you, because I thought back to every language I've ever learnt, even like Vietnamese which I picked up for like two afternoons, they've all stayed with me. Is that, is that the same? Like, even when I didn't continue it, I still they still mean something to me.

Lindsay: [00:24:23] Yeah. Like I spent six weeks learning Bulgarian in sort of autumn 2019. Never really done much with it since, but I still feel like Bulgarian, like I still feel kind of this very loose kinship with a language that I can't really use now, but actually was quite good at after just a few weeks, you know. And so yeah, even when there's like a very kind of minimal exposure or a language that you don't learn for very long or you don't go very far with that alone. Yeah. Something still stays with you I think.

Kerstin: [00:25:03] Yeah, it's sort of, it's like a little bit of magic and connexion and it's completely unrelated to whether you ever got any good at it.

Kerstin: [00:25:13] Mm hmm.

Kerstin: [00:25:14] I like that. I like that sort of. Yeah, I have that with, like, Vietnamese. I'm like, okay. I spent an afternoon trying to get my head around all the dire critics, and it just. I took the tiniest step towards unlocking it, but I still have that inside of me and that all of this is sort of when you when you don't continue a language. Like. For me, it's usually a conscious choice, but not always. Or sometimes I try to make the choice, but it's not all that clear cut. It's like a big grey zone. But do you feel a sense of sort of, oh, I could have become so I could have become fluent in Bulgarian, like a sense of disappointment, loss, self criticism, or are you at peace?

Lindsay: [00:26:01] Less so in a sense of FOMO, more so in a sense of like curiosity, maybe like kind of letting your mind wander like, well, imagine if I took Japanese all the way, wouldn't my life be different. Imagine if, you know, I got fluent in Bulgarian. Or wouldn't that be, you know what? I wonder what would have happened. But like everything in life, you could ask yourself those questions. And so I think if we're looking backwards, it can be fun to sometimes imagine that. But sometimes, like, you can't change the path that you did take and the choices that you did make to get you to here to the present. But what you can do is the future. You can adjust the future, you know, as by by making the choices from now. So I think although it can be fun to kind of look back and you know, if you look back and you think, oh, you know, imagine if I had carried on with French, oh, wow, would I be living there? And then asking yourself, Well, would I want that? Do I want that now in present tense me? And thinking, okay, I think I do. Okay. Well, what can I do now going forward if I want to change that rather than I should have done it, I didn't. I'm a failure. Er, here I am. This is it. This is where I'm stuck, you know.

Kerstin: [00:27:21] Yeah, I love that. Turning it into motivation. I've never thought about it that way because it's I think there is a real tendency in many people to, to beat yourself up for what you could be and what you should be. But you're very right. Like, then you might as well be like, Well, I should have a PhD by now and also be a lawyer and also be rich. And also, I don't know, be a model, you know, like there's many things that we aren't and it's much more about this comes back even with languages, this comes back down to you've got a you've got to start with liking where you are and liking who you are now.

Lindsay: [00:27:58] Exactly. Exactly.

Kerstin: [00:28:00] This is good stuff. Okay. Right. We're ending philosophy corner with a bit more feedback.

Kerstin: [00:28:07] And I've got some I've got some shout outs to make and I've got some messages to read. So, Lindsay, why don't you take Cara's message with the little heart's and excitement? Bless her.

Lindsay: [00:28:17] Yep. So Cara says, Cara, hello. Thank you.

Lindsay: [00:28:22] What a phenomenal nine years it's been. I remember sitting at a cafe listening to your first episode and then binge listening later as I went in and out of travelling. The value of positive value and positivity you bring to our community has been amazing. Oh, thank you, Cara.

Kerstin: [00:28:38] Nine years, mate. Nine years of listening to the whole thing. I know. I remember making my first episode. I didn't even know I was making a podcast.

Speaker5: [00:28:47] Hey, Kerstin, my name is Ricky, and I wanted to say a quick thank you for all the work that you've put into the Fluent Show. It's been a really foundational part of my language learning philosophy, I guess I would say. And in the case of German, which became my target language like three years ago, it provided a bunch of really helpful resources with German uncovered. And also just learning about your coaching sessions was really great and I think the best part of the Fluent Show for me was that it always brought me back to the fact that like language learning is something that's fun. There's, at least in my case, like not huge stakes to it. And yeah, it's like, you know, it's possible to enjoy it and not just like constantly feel stressed out by it in terms of like one thing that I really have to call out. I loved the bilingual episodes [German] And yeah, in the spirit of I think an appropriate Fluent Show sign off. Merci beaucoup. Muchas gracias, thank you

Kerstin: [00:30:34] And Jessica says, I know how moving on is bittersweet - true - Especially when you've put your heart and soul into a project like you have in this podcast. And as she says, the Fluent Show for me was always a ray of hope that making it in the language industry was possible. And you gave me inspiration for having my own podcast was totally doable and she wants us all to know it's launching in two weeks. So that's a French Sunny Sodde or it's a different name now, isn't it? But keep a lookout and I'm going to pop it on my social media if I see it for Jessica's new podcast.

Kerstin: [00:31:07] Oh, my gosh. But yeah. I love this because Lindsay, you and I have talked about, um, working in the language industry in different ways, and I love the idea that, um, it's given something useful, it's given some information and guidance and motivation to other people who want to teach languages - it's cool isn't it?

Lindsay: [00:31:26] Yeah, that's awesome.

Kerstin: [00:31:27] Oh, and I've got one more message I wanted to shout out here because I've got a shout out to Mandy. Mandy, who I know from Lancaster, who old school like came to when I taught at Waterstones Bookshop in Lancaster. I kind of walked into Waterstones, so I was like, Hey, why don't we do a thing? And I teach some lessons here, and she came along to those. And she's, she's on one of my kind of my, my teaching photos where it's like a pretty picture of me teaching one of the students there being like What does this mean? That's Mandy - shout out to Mandy. She says, I remember my French tuition. I remember my German tuition. Language learning isn't something that is easy for me, but I did have a bit of fun while sat in Waterstones Bookshop trying.

Kerstin: [00:32:09] I love this attitude like that is the attitude, right? It's like it doesn't matter if you're good, as long as we're having a bit of fun, that is what we're here for. So thank you all so much. More messages later. Okay. Right now, we're going to go on to more navel gazing team themes I've made a this is really important for you all to know in the show notes for today's episode FluentShow/240 I will link you to a list on Pod Chaser. Pod Chasers is just a sort of...They call it the IMDB of podcasts. So imagine that it's like a website with lots of podcast information. I've made a best episode list so you can even I believe you can even export those to like Spotify and to Apple Podcasts, etc.. So if you want to listen to my favourites and listen to favourites and Lindsay favourites of the Fluent Show, you can do that by clicking on Pod Chaser and just sort of hit play, but I've got a few episodes for you, a few of them with a few of them. Lindsay episodes, a few of them sort of my favourites, listener favourites. So Lindsay, I want to give you first go. Do you have a favourite episode or the one that you really enjoyed from your memory?

Lindsay: [00:33:17] Yes, and I know that it's one of yours as well. And it's the episode we did about the Languages of Britain.

Kerstin: [00:33:23] Oh, with Simon.

Lindsay: [00:33:27] Loved it. Loved it. Yeah, I learnt so much. It was so much fun as well.

Kerstin: [00:33:33] Simon was. Simon was great. Simon was a great interviewee. I bit off so much more than I could chew and I had to have a very quick learning curve because we had a I believe we had a three way conversation with him and and then also added in audio clips.

Kerstin: [00:33:49] Of the different languages. I think, yeah, we did. And then one of my absolute favourites, absolute favourites is when we did top five fictional languages. Do you remember that?

Lindsay: [00:34:00] Mm Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:34:01] Partly because I had figured out a little bit of like how to, how to produce an episode with various different sound clips. So I had a little bit less of a domestic with my, with my husband about boyfriend at the time.

Kerstin: [00:34:16] Of like how does this get edited? Where do you want this audio clip? But also I just love I remember like us listening to Klingon and us listening to Cinderin and us listening to all the different like languages and your reactions. And I remember you saying, you know, I remember.

Lindsay: [00:34:39] I know what you're going to say.

Kerstin: [00:34:40] Well....You said Klingon sounded like German.

Lindsay: [00:34:44] Yeah, it does. I stand by it.

Kerstin: [00:34:50] But I remember you also. There was the I can't remember the name of the language, but there's the one in Lord of the Rings that's like the evil language. And I played you an audio clip. You went, ooh, that's really that's really eerie. That's really sinister. And that sort of instant reaction to a language and its sounds and if fictional language I thought it was, that was just really interesting and such a like powerful moment and also that we managed to get the technology to do that.

Lindsay: [00:35:21] Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:35:22] And I think my next favourite is another like I come at this obviously from the point of view of having made this, it's, it's another production sort of adventure which was the one called Welsh is not English. I loved that episode. I'm so proud of that episode. And I, you know, it starts off with a little bit of room tone, right? So it starts off with the noise that I recorded while people went on their coffee break in my Welsh course that I took. And you taught me how to do that, Lindsay. You don't know that, I think.

Lindsay: [00:35:59] Oh, okay.

Kerstin: [00:35:59] Yeah, because when we went to the polyglot gathering, it was the first time we had the mobile recording device. And I remember you saying, I we're going to take a bit of room tone for the atmosphere and just kind of holding the microphone to the room so we can get the mumbling. And I was like, Oh, that is so cool. And I used that when I made Welsh is not English.

Lindsay: [00:36:17] Oh I see, I see.

Kerstin: [00:36:19] Yeah. So thank you for teaching me that.

Lindsay: [00:36:22] You're welcome.

Kerstin: [00:36:24] Learnt many things from Lindsay including including this one and yeah I just, I love, I love the episode because it was my, my only it ended up being my only attempt at sort of audio storytelling and doing a bit of audio documentary style things like Lindsay later did with, with language stories. So if you liked language stories, you will enjoy, Welsh is not English. And the other way around, this sort of audio storytelling, I really enjoyed that and it's something I'm really pleased that I got to learn. Two of my two of my favourite guests definitely. And I know I know I've got two white guys that I'm picking out, but I have a reason I like at least the the thing that I really like about this is that I had Mark Okrent, the creator of the Klingon language and some others, and then David Peterson, the language creator who has done lots of languages, including Dothraki and the languages for Game of Thrones and the two of them. I always remember these two interviews because in approach to what they do, the two of them were so different and they even at least during the interview in personality, they seemed so different.

Kerstin: [00:37:38] And I felt. It was just so fascinating to me and so interesting how these two language creators came at, came at their craft from completely different points of view and just approach it and kind of had different reasons for how they did it. And the the joy that I got to do both of them and that you can kind of listen to them and see the two different like one was much more for the internal satisfaction, the storytelling and the art of doing it. And then the other one was a little bit more about like, yeah, the joy of kind of language, but also, oh wow, the community that sprung up around it and how it all grew, that was, you know, it was it was two different variants of the same story. So I really enjoyed the contrast of those two interviews. And I have a I have a I'm going to tell you my David Peterson recording story. Lindsay, have I told you this about recording in London?

Lindsay: [00:38:33] I don't think so.

Kerstin: [00:38:35] Oh, okay. So I went to interview David in London. It's one of the very few episodes you and I have done this, and I think it's only he is the other person maybe that I have actually interviewed in person in the same room.

Lindsay: [00:38:50] Wait, when did we record in the same room?.

Kerstin: [00:38:51] We've done it a few times at language events and then we've done it when we were in Slovenia.

Lindsay: [00:38:55] Oh. Ohhhh okay, Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:38:59] And for David, I was so excited. I was so excited. I was like, Oh, I've only got one microphone. I need more microphones. Oh. So I bought these microphones to go with my mobile recording mobile recorder. Right. So, bought excellent mics are great. And we tried them all out and I'm like, I am a pro, right? Carried all the microphones all the way to London where where he was for the Duolingo event, some Duolingo event. And then I met him and I was like, Oh, this is going to be so great. I've got this like wonderful guest. And we got there. We got there. And I was like.

Kerstin: [00:39:33] In my head, I don't know. This is classic. I don't know. I'm like, sometimes you just don't think things all the way through. Sometimes maybe this is a thing that I do a lot. I don't know, different question. But we got there and then we realised, well, we haven't got anywhere to record. We don't have a space that is right for this because I had expected, okay, it's a hotel. Hotel lobbies are a good place to record, right? As long as you might have a bit of background mumbling and things, but that's just atmospheric and they tend to have a lot of soft fabrics. So I was like, This is great. But then the hotel didn't really have much of a lobby and I was like, Oh, oh, what do I do? So we had to look for somewhere to record and we ended up in the hotel's like printer room. So during the interview, I just want to commend David for his absolute patience and professionalism because he totally put up with this and it was like, Oh. Yeah, cool. Yeah, no, we're doing this.

Kerstin: [00:40:27] Like every time somebody had sent something to print, the printer started getting off and going Off to interrupt the whole thing.

Kerstin: [00:40:35] And I was very embarrassed and it was a lot of editing and fixing like those noises afterwards. But yeah, that's my David Peterson story. It was actually recorded like in the cellar printer room of a London hotel. It's the glamorous world of podcasting people.

Kerstin: [00:40:54] And another episode that I just one that you were on that came up a lot. I think three or four people told me in the end that they enjoyed this episode was the hidden cost of cheap and easy language learning.

Lindsay: [00:41:07] Mhm. We did that quite recently, right?.

Kerstin: [00:41:10] I think like October. November.Yeah.

Lindsay: [00:41:12] Yeah, yeah.

Kerstin: [00:41:13] And a lot of people were saying it just got them thinking I've got a feedback here from Leo or Leo And he...He said many things. So I'm going to cut to the chase and he says, I don't have a great story of the weirdest place I listened, but I have one for my favourite episode. Kerstin posted about the article. He means the Boston Review article at the Heart of Hidden Costs and he's Language learning posted about the article in advance in a Facebook group about the ethics of language learning. When I read the article initially, I thought, no big deal. When I listened to the episode initially my expectations for it was pretty low for anything insightful.

Kerstin: [00:41:55] You just don't don't, you know, don't mince your words, Leo.

Kerstin: [00:42:00] Boy, was I ever wrong. Kirsten and Lindsay out loud thinking really helped me once again how I was consuming and teaching about language learning. At the end of the episode, they thought maybe in five years there would be an ethical language learning company. A chill came down my spine, an ethical language learning company. I'm up for it. Ladies, thanks for the challenge.

Lindsay: [00:42:18] Oh, that's so cool it.

Kerstin: [00:42:20] And I like that we we defied expectations, but it's a sense that I kind of got because it's easy to become a bit like blase with, with things about ethics online and, you know, like language learning companies, etc.. And to sort of.

Kerstin: [00:42:35] Go like, yeah, I know they're using my data, but you know, I like it.

Lindsay: [00:42:39] Like anything, anything that is unseen is easier to, to kind of put your ethics under the rug, right? Like you wouldn't you wouldn't necessarily drop litter in the street, but you might wish cycle at home because no one's looking in your bins when you put the stuff in.

Kerstin: [00:42:56] Wish cycle? Okay. That's going on for word of the year.

Lindsay: [00:42:59] Have you never heard of that word? Yeah. Wish cycling is when like, you know, like, say ok a good example is a tetra pack. So like a milk carton, like a, like a long life milk carton or a soy milk milk carton. Not a plastic one. You know what I mean?

Kerstin: [00:43:15] Yep, yep, yep.

Lindsay: [00:43:16] Yeah. So a tetra pack often aren't recyclable in the UK. It's complicated, right? Different councils, different rules, blah, blah, blah. Yes, but often aren't. But it's the kind of thing that people will put in the recycling bin thinking. I'd rather put it in there hoping that it can be recycled, but it probably can't. And then what happens is it makes it more complicated because then the recycling plant, they have to take them all out. So it's more labour costs to remove from the recycling bin than it is to put it in the actual trash black bag. Yeah. So that's wish cycling. So it's a bit like that, right. You would do that at home because no one's seeing you put it in the recycling bin when it's not recyclable, but in the street you wouldn't drop litter. So it's. So we've got on a tangent. But, but that's what, that's what I think it is about like sort of ethics with language learners. Oh yeah. It's just me at home on my internet. I can pay $2 for the lesson. No one's going to know.

Kerstin: [00:44:19] And the person. Yeah. Yeah, but and also. Yeah, I was, I just had a conversation like. Yeah, we are on a tangent. Hello. Welcome to the tangent. Like for somebody about sort of the. How many lessons do you take with a new tutor before you decide that they're not right for you? And I was like. Well, you keep going for a good while, right? But but the tendency is to just go, okay, next. That didn't work next. It's almost like, you know, because we've got we've got tutor Tinder almost.

Lindsay: [00:44:49] Tutor Tinder.

Kerstin: [00:44:50] Ooh, I know. I'm like.Oh wow, tutor Tinder.

Kerstin: [00:44:53] But that's not a good thing anyway. Okay, let's, let's read a little bit more feedback and then I've got a quiz for you.

Speaker6: [00:45:03] I really enjoyed the Fluent Show over the years and I'm so glad that I discovered the podcast and your work there didn't used to be many language podcasts, and I know you've encouraged a few more podcasters that we now have today. I'm excited for what's coming next for you, but you also don't have to have anything else coming up right away. Enjoy doing whatever you get up to. Merci for everything. I started slowly learning German last year, so I'm looking forward to going back to your bilingual German episodes, specifically the one with....

Kerstin: [00:45:42] Why don't you take the email from Daniel in Nova Scotia? It's very, very small in the little things you have to click on it.

Lindsay: [00:45:55] I was going to say, Yeah, it's very small for me because I've got it on a smaller screen as well, but I will do my best. I'll lean in. Okay. So, Daniel, I can see it. It's okay. I got it. I'm squinting. It's all right, it's a podcast, you can't see me as a long time listener. Back to the Creative Language Learning Podcast days. The show has always felt like a friend to me since I have no in-person friends who are learning languages this podcast has meant so much to me, both in that regard and beyond. My favourite episodes are definitely the bilingual ones because what learner doesn't want to hear other languages, especially ones I'm studying like German and French and Welsh just sounds so freaking awesome. Although it's not an episode per se Women in Language was a chance to virtually meet my heroes, and they were everything I could have dreamed of. Thank you, Kerstin Lindsay, all the wonderful guests and everyone behind the scenes of the show that have made these years so incredibly wonderful. Oh, thank you, Daniel.

Kerstin: [00:46:45] Thank you, Daniel.

Lindsay: [00:46:46] That's delightful.

Kerstin: [00:46:47] I know. And old school creative language learning podcast listener. And I'm going to stick with long term listener, not first time writer, but long time listener Elfyn who says, I began listening to the show back in 2014 and here's what I never knew about Elfyn I was recovering from an operation. My life was in tatters. That's how it felt. I had plenty of time on my hands and went back to language learning Japanese and Spanish. I had no idea of how to go about things online and somehow found the show. It opened up a whole world for me. Even just your approach and relaxed atmosphere were differences where differences were welcomed and seen as an asset to show went on to inspire me to do other things, show up for myself, start my own business. I got to know Lindsay, who is such an amazing woman as well, and that she is. I've listened to the show in countless places by the sea, on the train crossing Italy, at hospital with my mum sick when I got my dog. I'm not crying. I've moved house with it. When things were rough, it was wonderfully reassuring to hide in this beautiful world where everyone thought Language learning was important and was curious and respectful of other ideas and cultures. Thanks to the show, I've got to know so many people.

Kerstin: [00:48:00] I hope I didn't embarrass you. But I think we would all be living in a better world if we stop now and then and gave credit to the things that matter and impacted us. I know just that. It made me feel really emotional to think, you know, like got to we got to hang out. We got to hang out places like places I've never been. That's one of the most magic things for me. But also really it gives me that Buffy feeling of like, Yeah, man, you're encouraged.

Kerstin: [00:48:25] You know, you start to do things for yourself and like, gave people the the power back. I love it. I love it. Oh. Okay, I'm not crying. You're not crying. What we're doing is answering quiz questions.

Kerstin: [00:48:42] Yeah. Play the top tool jingle. Let's use it for the quiz [tune] Lindsay.

Lindsay: [00:48:52] Hello.

Kerstin: [00:48:52] Are you ready for a quiz that I wrote on the train back down from Manchester after running the great Manchester run. So I might have been a bit tired and the questions might be rubbish.

Lindsay: [00:49:02] I am ready if the question is well, if the questions plural are like less about Manchester and more about podcast or languages, probably more of my forte subjects.

Kerstin: [00:49:17] Okay. There's not many languages questions. They're mostly show questions in UK. You'll notice, I think in which month was Lindsay a guest on the Creative Language Learning podcast for the first time?

Lindsay: [00:49:28] Oh. A guest. A guest. Not a co-host. Yes. Right. So. It probably would have been around. I don't know. It's...Maybe

Kerstin: [00:49:43] Do you have a like a year?

Lindsay: [00:49:46] Yeah, I do. I think 2015.

Kerstin: [00:49:51] Earlier.

Lindsay: [00:49:53] 2014.

Kerstin: [00:49:55] Yeah. I had you on in October 2014.

Kerstin: [00:50:00] And then and then the cohosting started in 2015. So you've been a co-host of this show for seven years.

Lindsay: [00:50:06] It's quite a long time

Kerstin: [00:50:07] Isn't it? I know! Well, thank you so much for being my buddy for all this time right. Now, question number 2: How many episodes...Okay, I regretted this the second I asked it because then I had to like I hadn't counted these. How many episodes have the word language or languages in the title?

Kerstin: [00:50:28] I'll give you ten either way. So this is episode 240.

Lindsay: [00:50:32] Okay. 200.

Kerstin: [00:50:36] It's slightly less than that.

Lindsay: [00:50:39] 150?

Kerstin: [00:50:41] Getting closer -128

Lindsay: [00:50:42] Okay. That's less than I thought.

Kerstin: [00:50:47] I mean, it's still good for search engine optimisation I suppose.

Kerstin: [00:50:51] 128 episodes. And I assure you though listeners, they are all in one way or other about languages. Even the one about Brexit is kind of about languages. Okay. The next one is what is the oldest bilingual Fluent Show episode in the archive? And for bonus point, who was the guest?

Lindsay: [00:51:07] Okay. So I think. Oh, no, you you did a bilingual one, I think, before you interviewed me. Is that correct? Am I in the right zone? No.

Kerstin: [00:51:22] No, I wouldn't say so.

Lindsay: [00:51:23] Maybe not. Okay. Okay. So in that case, I think. So there wasn't like one sort of straggler old bilingual episode, in which case I think they were a newer thing. And it was possibly. German.

Kerstin: [00:51:38] Yeah.

Lindsay: [00:51:39] And you spoke to. Maybe you...

Kerstin: [00:51:43] Well done. Yes.

Lindsay: [00:51:45] Is it?

Kerstin: [00:51:47] Fluent Show award coming your way. Yes, a Fluent Show podcast award coming your way.

Lindsay: [00:51:53] I'd like to thank my mum. My dad.

Kerstin: [00:51:57] Yes, it's the episode I did with you that you'd admire. And it's. It came out 15th January 2018, 2018. That was my first bilingual. And you're not wrong with sort of the impression, I think, that there was there wasn't a straggler with bilingual, but I did start off interviewing lots and lots of Germans in particular and German kind of people, really, which I think just happens because I was a German tutor at the time and I was tutoring German. So I was looking at what are other people doing, what interesting things are other people doing with teaching or with teaching German? So if you look back in your archive, I think it's quite a strong proportion of German teachers in the in the older episodes because that was interesting. Okay. Lindsay, are you ready for your question number four?

Lindsay: [00:52:41] I am ready.

Kerstin: [00:52:41] When was our 100th episode? And name all the guests?

Lindsay: [00:52:47] Okay, so. Let's think logically. 240 episodes now. Nine years, I think 100. Would have been around 2017. Yeah.

Kerstin: [00:53:04] Later than that because I didn't start off consistent at all. August 2018. You might remember we did a live broadcast. We had all these guests coming in.

Lindsay: [00:53:14] Mhm. Hmm. So probably Shannon.

Kerstin: [00:53:18] Definitely Shannon, yes.

Lindsay: [00:53:21] Did we speak with Benny?

Kerstin: [00:53:23] He was on that, too. Yeah. I was like, oh, my God, he was there, too.Yes. Yeah. We had Benny.

Lindsay: [00:53:28] And maybe Chris?

Kerstin: [00:53:30] Oh, not not Chris Brown. He wasn't I don't think we've ever done together an episode with Chris. Shout out to Chris from Actual Fluency. It's the only sport ever to feature Richard Simcot. He joined us on Skype. And then we also had Gabe Winer.

Lindsay: [00:53:47] Yep.

Kerstin: [00:53:48] And. From talk the talk?

Lindsay: [00:53:51] Oh, we had talked the talk people.

Kerstin: [00:53:54] Yes, but not that. That was a separate episode where we had Daniel and Hedvig. That was us. Now, Ben, I've never spoken to Ben. Ben with the. Ben with the nicest voice that. No. Kylie previous presenter. Yes. And she was on she used to be a presenter on Talk the Talk podcast, which is about linguistics and the science of language. And yeah, so we had Kylie Sturgis and she was a guest on her 100th episode in 20th of August 2018

Lindsay: [00:54:24] What a cool episode.

Kerstin: [00:54:25] Yeah, thatwas really fun. That was really fun. I remember in the prep for it, I emailed everybody a schedule of like, okay, these are your 10 minutes on Skype. I then need to throw you off Skype because I want to I want the next person to come on and then.

Kerstin: [00:54:36] You, you know, like it was very organised.

Kerstin: [00:54:39] And everybody stuck to their schedule. It was very good.

Kerstin: [00:54:43] Okay, the next question. Okay, this is going all the way back to our first words of the year episode was 2018. But I'm going to give you I'm going to give you a little bit more of a chance to guess these.

Lindsay: [00:54:56] Are you going to ask me what the words of the year were?

Kerstin: [00:54:59] Yeah!

Lindsay: [00:55:00] Oh my life. Okay.

Kerstin: [00:55:00] So 2019. So think think, we're just before the pandemic, we don't know what's around the corner. What was the Cambridge dictionary word of the year?

Lindsay: [00:55:09] 2018 or 2019?

Kerstin: [00:55:12] So what? Okay, what was the 2019 Cambridge Dictionary word of the year? What general theme...

Lindsay: [00:55:20] I'm trying to think of like world events. We're pre-COVID. We're still in the Trump era, I think. Oh, no. But like end of end of 2019. No, he was still in for [inaduible] doesn't he. I dumpster fire.

Speaker2: [00:55:34] Oh I think. Ooh. I wonder if that was the year before. Do you know what dumpster fire was a Word of the year. But it wasn't in that episode - dumpster fire that I think that's earlier the Cambridge dictionary it's funny that you said wish cycling because this was.

Lindsay: [00:55:49] Oh wish cycling?

Kerstin: [00:55:50] No it was up cycling

Lindsay: [00:55:53] really.

Kerstin: [00:55:53] Yeah.

Lindsay: [00:55:54] 2019? That's like that's such an old word. Way older than 2019.

Kerstin: [00:55:58] Cambridge are always a bit...

Lindsay: [00:55:59] They don't watch Sarah and Jay Blades on that show where they go to the tip.

Kerstin: [00:56:04] The repair repair show. Yeah, but that's not that's not a 2019. That's like a lockdown show, isn't it?

Lindsay: [00:56:10] No, it's well old like. Yeah. Because like, you can tell from the clothes, it's like noughties.

Kerstin: [00:56:16] Oh.

Lindsay: [00:56:18] At the start

Kerstin: [00:56:18] What's the show called?

Lindsay: [00:56:19] Oh, now you're asking. I know someone on it called Sarah in the early series and then someone called Jay Blades.

Kerstin: [00:56:27] Well, Jay Blades has a show on BBC.

Lindsay: [00:56:29] Is more recent.

Kerstin: [00:56:30] Yeah. Okay. Tangent ended. What was the Colin's word of the year? So what else? If there's upcycling, what else might be was happening in 2019? Any memories?

Lindsay: [00:56:41] Greenwashing?

Kerstin: [00:56:42] No. Greenwashing was the year after. I think greenwashing was the year after in like Norway. But this is sort of in that ballpark. It's sort of in that area of like do you remember in the schools what they did on a Friday

Lindsay: [00:56:56] Mufti. 

Kerstin: [00:56:56] What?

Lindsay: [00:56:57] What schools did on a Friday?

Kerstin: [00:56:59] Yeah. Well, the schools didn't do it. The kids did...with Gretta.

Lindsay: [00:57:11] Oh. School strike.

Kerstin: [00:57:13] Yes, climate strike.

Lindsay: [00:57:15] Oh, okay. She still doing that?

Kerstin: [00:57:17] I don't know. Well, she's, she's not in school anymore, is she?

Lindsay: [00:57:20] Is she not?

Kerstin: [00:57:21] No. Gretta, please, please write in and tell us what you're up to these days. I think she's not. I don't know. So does the Merriam-Webster as well. And theirs was quite interesting. So this is going to be the last one because these are difficult to guess. But okay. So think we're living in a world off. I'm going to read you one more. Macquarie had cancel culture so I'm just getting you in the mood here so a cancel culture upcycling climate strike what what might be the Merriam-Webster word of the year it's a short one.

Lindsay: [00:57:54] So Merriam-Webster we're in America now. We've had upcycle, climate. Hmm. Climate crisis? No, that's a long one.

Kerstin: [00:58:08] Yeah.

Lindsay: [00:58:08] Really short. Is it something environmental? 

Kerstin: [00:58:10] It's not something environmental. I think it's sort of maybe a little bit more cancel culture adjacent. In that realm. And I think we were both like why have they chosen that this that's that's old school as well it was.

Kerstin: [00:58:24] They.

Lindsay: [00:58:24] Yeah yeah what a weird year...

Kerstin: [00:58:29] I know. Well we all got very focussed the year after. And it was just like lockdown, vaccine...

Lindsay: [00:58:35] I was going to say, right.

Kerstin: [00:58:37] It's just kind of shows like there were different things on our mind before lockdown and vaccine and all that kind of stuff. I wonder what it's going to be this year. Maybe we'll do a special, maybe we'll do awards for the special I've got earmarked in my head. Okay, question number six. Are you ready? This was this is Christian's question. I'm sure I'm not sure how serious it was about this. What are the lyrics to the Top Tool Jingle?

Lindsay: [00:59:00] Okay. So I think there must be two versions, right? One is like top tools, autumn and winter.

Kerstin: [00:59:06] Yes.

Lindsay: [00:59:07] Top tools top tools and one is top tools. Spring and summer.

Kerstin: [00:59:14] You're not miles off. Yeah, there are two versions. One is top tools autumn and winter, top tools spring and summer. I've always just had them together because, you know, we had two seasons. They were all in a jingle. And then one goes, Top Tools, 2019. And then the other one just repeats top tools because I thought I can't be bothered making a new one every year. And that's why that was.

Lindsay: [00:59:36] Fair enough.

Kerstin: [00:59:37] Okay. Question number seven. What is the name of the band that does the Fluent Show theme tune?

Lindsay: [00:59:42] Oh. I do not know.

Kerstin: [00:59:44] Well, shout out to the band who gave me the rights to use their beautiful song. It's called Move Along. It actually has words so you can find it on like Spotify and other music streaming services. The song is called Move Along and the band is called Forget the Whale, and they're a sort of rock band in New Jersey and you can actually go and see them live and buy their album and all that stuff. So shout out to Forget the Whale. Now, Okay, one more question. How many episodes, Lindsay - this is just relates to something from earlier. Have you and I recorded parts off or entirely in the same place as each other..

Lindsay: [01:00:25] Okay. So you did kind of give me the answer because I asked accidentally, not knowing this was a question. So. So, okay. So there was one in Libyana

Kerstin: [01:00:33] There was. Yes. The polyglot conference.

Lindsay: [01:00:36] No. I mean, you said we recorded one in Slovenia, right? Do you mean just on our own?

Kerstin: [01:00:42] We did one on our own, but it also had interviews from a polyglot conference. It kind of had everything.

Lindsay: [01:00:46] In the same episode?

Kerstin: [01:00:47] Yeah, yeah. It all became one episode.

Lindsay: [01:00:49] Okay, so that's one.

Kerstin: [01:00:51] Yeah.

Lindsay: [01:00:51] And then maybe one in Berlin or maybe two.

Kerstin: [01:00:55] There were two in Berlin.

Lindsay: [01:00:56] Maybe Bratislava. Montreal, I'm going to guess five.

Kerstin: [01:01:01] I have one, two, three, four -  two polyglot gatherings. I think there was - I've been to three polyglot gathering one I didn't record, two podcast gatherings, a lang fest and a polyglot conference. And then I have been to a lang fest where you weren't there. And there's another episode if you like language learning events or polyglot events listeners, there's two Lang Fest episodes in the archive as well. And speaking of Lang Fest episodes. Oh, what a bridge. I have got some more listener shout outs.

Kerstin: [01:01:34] Okay, so. First I want to give a big shout out to Scottie. So I have a read of what Scott has been up to Lindsay this  is amazing.

Lindsay: [01:01:42] And we scroll down. Okay. Back to the start.

Kerstin: [01:01:48] I know.

Lindsay: [01:01:49] Okay, so Scotty got in touch to say that he is listening all the way from the start, because apparently that is the only way. He hasn't even listened to the episode that he himself is on and is still listening to Kerstin Lammers and Lindsey Dow. Even though the older episodes are a little dated in places, he says he loves hearing us grow and change our mind on things. It's cosy. So thank you to Scotty for being a Fluent Show listener. You got some good episodes to look forward to.

Kerstin: [01:02:18] You Absolutely do. You absolutely do. And I love I was saying to him like, but aren't the old episodes like really out of date? And he said. Yeah, but I like it. It's cosy. So shout out to Scotty. You're not the only listener, Scotty, who listens all the way from the start, and you might hear this in like five years or whenever you've caught up. We are going to be here for you.

Speaker6: [01:02:37] I found the Fluent Show by accident when I was absolutely desperate to figure out a fast and easy way to learn languages. And what I found was so much more and so much better. Kerstin through the Fluent Show was the first to challenge my definition and goal of fluency. She validated my struggles and methods and she gave me new and outside of the box ways to learn languages. Surprisingly, I've been able to apply these lessons to every other aspect of my life as well, from parenting to marriage to passion projects to self-improvement and growth. The Fluent Show quickly became a valuable piece to my life's puzzle, and my language journey wouldn't be near as fun or effective without everything, Kerstin, her co host and guests have put out into the world. So thank you so much for the Fluent Show.

Kerstin: [01:03:26] I've had a message as well from Claire, an email saying I've enjoyed so many of your podcasts and I'll miss listening to you. I've always found the podcast inspiring and fun, even though I'm not a serious language learner. On days when my spirits have been low, I've been greatly cheered by listening to your podcast. My all time favourite episode was the Welsh one about the importance of learning this lovely language. Inspired by that, I learnt a little Welsh, so.

Kerstin: [01:03:53] Your podcasts have been have made me think about so many things that I've never thought of before. For example, the importance of minority languages, feminism and language learning. And Lyndsay, I think minority and Indigenous languages has been a constant for us that we kept coming back to in the year, hasn't it?

Lindsay: [01:04:17] Hmm, definitely

Kerstin: [01:04:18] Yeah. I remember you did an interview with the with Wicked Tongues and because you said your volunteer used to volunteer for Wicked Tongues as well.

Lindsay: [01:04:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kerstin: [01:04:27] We're going way back. We're going way back. I've read out Leo's feedback. We're coming to a close. Now, listeners, you know, we've talked about FOMO and.

Kerstin: [01:04:39] And oh, what could have been. So I'm going to I'm going to let you in on a little bit of what could have been, because there are a few episodes I never got to make. But if you want to find out more about these topics, I still want to encourage you to find out more about these topics because they sound super cool. Okay. So Lindsay, I'll read you those and then I guess tell me how much you know about this. We can 10/2 cover each of them. So the first one of the lost episodes that were never got made is the topic of polarity and back slang name. And there's a cool word like crypto crypto lex.

Lindsay: [01:05:17] Crypto lex?

Kerstin: [01:05:18] Crypto lex Yeah, it's not cool.

Kerstin: [01:05:20] It's when you use languages because Polaris was the was a sort of language developed amongst the.

Lindsay: [01:05:26] Oh so when it's like used as a code as like a secret language. Oh, interesting. Interesting.

Kerstin: [01:05:32] Exactly. Yeah. So Polaris was the used in the gay community and it's not used so much anymore. But yeah, crypto lex to sort of all the different things kind of sort of the collective word for languages that evolve out of hiding almost. And I think that is fascinating and interesting. And you know, you can all you can go all the way to like reclaiming or the reclamation of and pride that's kind of come back to like that Hip hop, in a way, has brought to the black community in the UK, in the UK, in the USA, sorry.

Lindsay: [01:06:10] Kirsten, I have a question about these lost episodes, these episodes that like you had on a list of like topics that you were going to come to one day or is it like you were going to make them? There was some element of production happening and then it just all sort of fell through. Like, where did you get to with these?

Kerstin: [01:06:29] Funny you should ask...two of these. So, so. Yeah, two of these the polarity one and the next one which is multicultural London English, which is a sort of new emerging dialect here in the UK and I think that's really interesting. Are you aware of multicultural London English?

Lindsay: [01:06:53] I am not.

Kerstin: [01:06:53] I think it's sort of all the way like I think of it like BBC Three, BBC Theeree English, but it's not quite...but you know, sort of you might have like use of the words like mandem in there. And when people refer to themselves as man, you know, and, and sort of different things that have kind of come in through. Maybe Commonwealth immigration and especially Caribbean immigration. So I think it has a little bit of Jamaican slang and like it's not really pinned down as much. But speaking of production for that one, I did actually interview somebody for it. And what happens sometimes I'm sure this has happened, maybe it has happened to you making podcasts. You know, sometimes you do an interview and you just feel like. It just that just didn't work. Hmm. Right. So this was just one of those where. It. Just the conversation didn't get going. I felt like my questions weren't right. I didn't manage to get to the heart of things. I wasn't able to, like warm up and relax my guest. I take a lot of responsibility for this. I think as the podcast host, it's my responsibility to try and make my guests comfortable and, you know, like get to something interesting that gets to the heart of what I want to know and the story I want to tell with an interview. And it just it just I don't know, I kind of just failed it. And we weren't we never managed to arrange a second interview. And because you're really asking a lot from somebody then when to do it again.

Lindsay: [01:08:25] For a second. Yeah, yeah.

Kerstin: [01:08:27] So it just never happened. And Polari, I did write to a few academics and like, I don't know, this has never happened with any other topic. They just didn't write back.

Lindsay: [01:08:38] Oh right

Kerstin: [01:08:39] Maybe my email never got delivered. I don't know. They just never wrote back. So I don't know whether. And it's weird as well, because it was somebody I'd heard on I believe because language. So no, I'm not offended at all and no, no comment on them. It's just the email somehow never did what it was supposed to do. So I did reach out. So both of them had some production starts on that topic, but it just they just weren't to be, unfortunately. Whereas the next one is an episode idea that I just had in my head like because we were chatting before recording and we said, Oh, how cool would it be? I've never made a bilingual episode speaking Mosul Frankish. Partly because there is actually a linguist who's written a few books about Mosul Frankish So I would have I wouldn't be able to get hold of an expert maybe who can who can give us the perspective. But my own confidence, speaking this dialect, it's a bit like heritage language speakers I think isn't great. And also I've never thought about it in great detail, but it's definitely on the list now of Long Lost. Here's what could have been.

Lindsay: [01:09:48] Oh.

Kerstin: [01:09:49] Yeah. And then the last one. That made me think about it actually made me think about your...You have a lost third season of language stories, don't you?

Lindsay: [01:10:02] Yeah. Yeah. To the point that yeah I suppose kind of like you say with, with your polaris and multicultural English, like we had interviews booked, we had travel booked and accommodation. We were ready to go. We were going to start recording the UK series and even I think if you listen to the end of season two of language stories, I say we'll be back for season three in the UK and it will probably never happen now because yeah, we started, we were ready to go. It was going to be the Easter holidays of 2020 and obviously we all know what happened in in March. So we couldn't even travel to the Isle of Man. It was not a possibility. And yeah, it's it's it's gone.

Kerstin: [01:10:49] Well, maybe you and I can pick it up one day and do like a Fluent Show language stories, Fluent stories, road trip or something. That'll be fun.

Kerstin: [01:11:00] And then we can also put in the episode that I never I never got to do, which is which also fell victim to COVID, to be honest is I would have loved and I had a contact locally, I would have loved to go and visit what's called a complementary language school, which is sort of a like you can take your kids to Polish school at the weekend or something like that, or maybe they will have like after school lessons. Because I did, I did an interview episodes with um, Katie and Petrus, who are two researchers researching heritage languages here in the UK. And they told me a lot about complementary language schools and I thought, Oh, it'd be really cool to go, go to one, talk to the kids, talk to the teachers, you know, record the atmosphere and tell that story.

Lindsay: [01:11:44] Yeah.

Kerstin: [01:11:46] I think it would have been really cool.

Kerstin: [01:11:47] Yeah, yeah. Super interesting. Right. So complementary language schools are a thing largely volunteer run in the UK and never got to visit one. So listeners there you have a few topics that are super interesting for you to research, even if there never got to be a podcast episode about them. And the same with hidden languages of the UK. So maybe, maybe in the future we'll get to pick up these threads once again. Okay. Now, Lindsay, I'm coming to I'm coming to closing questions. And there's really only one big question that I received. So I didn't receive any questions from listeners because we're finishing something. But Jane Gerloff got in touch and she said, Where do you see yourself going in your own language learning journey? I've always enjoyed hearing what you are up to, so I'll let you I'll let you go first. First of all, tell me, what are you up to work-wise in the coming... Well, in the foreseeable?

Lindsay: [01:12:43] Work-wise. So I am. Kind of keeping on with what I've been doing past sort of year or so with Language Life, which is like my favourite thing to do. It's so good to be working with learners on the how to of learning languages and like, you know, working on that progress as we, as we do it together and then. Ooh. What else? Who knows? We'll see. We'll see what happens. I've just opened a new off Facebook community, which is really, really fun. So I think we can pop the invitation to that in the show notes. And then email list is again one of my favourite places to connect. So yeah, there's a link to that in the show notes as well. That's my work wise stuff. What about you?

Kerstin: [01:13:39] Work-wise. I am finally now that I have. I'm just. I've just done, like, a sort of update live edition of Podcasting 101. It's finishing this week. And I've also created a kind of Notion, podcasting HQ sort of thing that I use to organise the Fluent Show. I've made it into a template version that you can use for your own podcast because I am it's rock solid. I love it. I've been using it for a year. It keeps everything in one place. So that's available now for podcasters. I've been doing more work around that and it's given me new ideas. So the time came where I finally have to make like a website for it. And you can't just live in a corner of sort of Fluent Language and people come to the website and think what? You know, and no podcaster will ever find it on a language learning website. So at the moment I'm working on making making a website for that so it can live somewhere being, you know, the multi-passionate thing. And in that process, I'm switching back in. So I'm doing some behind the scenes work. I'm switching to Squarespace 7.1. So if you're a website builder or you've got any kind of online business you've ever made a wedding website, you might know about Squarespace or if you've ever listened to a podcast.

Kerstin: [01:14:53] They never sponsored this podcast, but I'm switching to the new system and it means you have to you have to rebuild your website. You can't just switch it over. So it's a yeah, it's a big job, but it just does so many cool little things where I'm like Oh, this is really good. Oh, this is really good. So I'm actually having a I'm taking a course on it, an online course, and I'm having a really good time. So I'm in a bit of a tidy month back end month and long term I've got a few projects kind of that I, I am working on, but I kind of know myself well enough than to not announce it and then feel held by whatever I said.

Kerstin: [01:15:30] So they will come. And like Lyndsay has got, I've put it in the show notes, there's the newsletter, sign up. So please make sure you sign up for Lindsay's newsletter and you sign up for mine. Because we do constantly have new projects coming out and new things. And if you want to know what we're doing next, please allow us to tell us, tell you. And also again, please stay subscribed to the Fluent Show RSS feed, which if you get new episodes automatically, you are. So don't change any of your settings for this podcast, even though there won't be new episodes. I do want to get the chance to tell you what I'm up to, especially with whatever comes next in the world of podcasting. And I also want to yeah, I just wanted to make you aware of that. So stay subscribed to the RSS feed because there might be more coming in the future and you can you don't need to do anything for that. Right. Subscribe still applies even on the last episode now in languages. So I'm kind of I'm just coming into the end of my world class year. I finished my book. Lindsay how good is that? I finish a whole textbook in Welsh.

Kerstin: [01:16:39] I know of halfway through B2 level now according to the book so I can proper.

Kerstin: [01:16:45] It's coming to the point where I can proper speak Welsh and if you if you're a long term listener you'll know when I started like this takes ages took me seven years but I finished a book so I'm going to continue with Welsh and then sort of I might continue sort of half assing Chinese for a little bit I found this year. Because. All the things that you couldn't do have started being things again, you know, like travelling and going out and meeting people and all that. Like, I didn't have any space anymore for that in my diary. And I'm kind of not really having as much language space except for like my, my classes. So I'm not committing to anything. But I think maybe I might continue dabbling around with Chinese for a little bit. So those are my language plans. What about you?

Lindsay: [01:17:37] Well, I have my main thing that is sort of language related, but not direct language learning is my M.A. in Applied Linguistics, which is where am I now? We're recording this at the end of May, so I've got a couple of months on my final assignment and then I've got six months of dissertation, so I am absolutely not committing to like, yeah, I'm going to start learning this new language tomorrow. Well, it's going to be amazing. Woo! Definitely not, because that's not going to happen with all the time that I'm going to need to focus on that. But I have been and will be keeping up with Russian, which I'm really enjoying. And, and then I'm also enjoying like finding space for moments throughout my day with other languages that I've studied or not studied. Like even if it's just like watching a film in, I watched a film in Sinhala the other week which like I know nothing about Sri Lanka, about Sinhala. So it was just, it's just fun just to have those moments for me when I know that I don't have the time to start a new language, you know, that helps to make me feel kind of connected, I guess, to the thing that I really love, you.

Kerstin: [01:18:49] Do you know, at, at the end.Oh, this is, okay this is going to be really cheesy at the end of Buffy in her speech, which I have watched obviously far too many times, she says, Slayers, every one of us. And I feel like what you just said, it's like you're a language person and it kind of doesn't matter if you're like actively learning a language, moving in a linear way, performing because you're a language person. And if listeners take one thing from a podcast, I kind of want to say like language people, every one of us, because I think that's that is yeah, it's so true to just kind of pop it into a little moment or, you know, the curiosity never goes anywhere. So I love that it's really cool and I'm so excited. Can I come to your graduation when it's when it's done?

Lindsay: [01:19:32] I hope so.

Kerstin: [01:19:33] Yeah.

Lindsay: [01:19:34] See how many tickets I'm allowed.

Kerstin: [01:19:36] I'll just be outside on the livestream like there's my friend. Yeah. Amazing. Okay, so maybe, maybe I'll podcast Lindsay's graduation. We will see. Now, I guess some good noise. Okay. I think I think the moment has come. I think we're I think we are closing. We've done the quiz, we've done the favourite episodes, we've done we've we've had a long chat about finishing things and why it's good to finish things when they're good.

Kerstin: [01:20:04] And yeah, all the beautiful things that can come next. So there's only really one thing left to do, which is to sign off in the way that we always sign off on the Fluent Show.

Kerstin: [01:20:13] So for the last time. Lindsay, are you ready?

Lindsay: [01:20:18] Whoo! I'm ready.

Kerstin: [01:20:19] Okay, everybody. Oh, my God. For the last time on the Fluent Show it is. Goodbye from me. Goodbye and goodbye from Lindsay Williams.

Kerstin: [01:20:32] Thank you for listening to the Fluent Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please support the show by subscribing for new episodes and leaving a rating and review in your podcast app. You can visit us at Fluentlanguage.co.uk any time. Don't forget that you can send us your questions and feedback to hello@fluentlanguage.co.uk or you can find the show on Twitter and say Hello over there.

Kerstin: [01:20:56] It's at The Fluent Show and on Instagram it's hashtag The Fluent Show. We're always happy to hear from you and we read every message and review.