Epi 59 - Walli Miller
[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Money Mindset Podcast, where you will find the inspiration and motivation you need to manage your money better so that you can stress less and live the life you want.
[00:00:15] It's Ashley with Budgets Made Easy and the Money Mindset Podcast. I'm so excited to share this interview with you today with Walli Miller, with financiallythriving.com. She is a first-generation college student, daughter of an immigrant and a self-made millionaire, who is committed to helping high achievers, reach their financial goals and design a life they love. Now Walli wasn't always financially thriving. But now that she is, she's committed to using her powers for good by helping others take control of their finances.
[00:00:49] And today she's going to share her journey towards FIRE which we haven't really talked about on this podcast. And FIRE is financially independent retire early or financial independence retire early. Uh, however you want to say it. And she is on that journey from mindlessly spending, not knowing where her money was going to being able to retire at 40 years old.
[00:01:15] How awesome would that be? But it took a lot of intention to stop the mindless spending because as she says, she really loves shopping for shoes and you know, it wasn't always easy. So here is how she was able to start being more intentional with her money so that she can have the options in life to do what she wants to travel, retire early, keep working if she wants to.
[00:01:42] So welcome Wallie. And if you love this interview, please leave us a five star review. I love reading your comments and your reviews. I appreciate it so much. Hi Wally. Thank you so much for being with us today.
[00:01:59] Walli: Hi, Ashley. I am so excited for this conversation.
[00:02:03] Ashley: And then today we're going to share your journey and you know, we're going to talk a little bit about the FIRE community and I don't usually talk about what FIRE is and kind of what that whole process is all about, because I don't consider myself part of that community.
[00:02:21] Um, I don't really have. Well, I say I don't have the desire to retire early, but I guess I technically did since I quit my job to stay at home with my kids and build my business. But I guess I just never really considered myself part of that community. But I want to talk about your journey to FIRE. Um, can you kind of give us a little bit of background about yourself and how your money journey started?
[00:02:45] Walli: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I would say that if you would've asked me in my twenties, if I was good with money, I would have said yes. And how I defined good with money was not having credit card debt. Right.
[00:03:01] Ashley: And a good credit score, right? Probably.
[00:03:03] Walli: And a good credit score. Yes. I had, uh, I didn't have any credit card debt, but I had a good credit score. Um, and I also, you know, got into a situation where I was making pretty decent money for my age. I didn't have any kids. No, you know, uh, I didn't have a family, so I was essentially just making money in order to, to pay my bills and make sure I had a little bit of fun money. And so I thought I was good with money because I was able to pay my bills on time. I had some student loans, I did have a car note, but even after paying all of my responsibilities, I still had some money left over. And so I did what any young person thinks they should do, which is spend it. And I didn't have any guilt about it. I said, I work hard, my bills are paid. And so it's time to go shopping, eat out, travel and do all those fun things.
[00:03:58] Fast forward a few years. And I was around 28 years when I received a lovely piece of mail from the IRS or, or actually from the Social Security Administration. And it was the earn the income earning statement. And essentially, um, I don't know if it's after 10 years of work or something like that, but I received this statement yeah. And I received the statement and it had a list of all of the money that I had made over my lifetime. So I had my, you know, summer job when I was 15 and 16 and you know, my stint in a fast food restaurant. And when I added up the total amount of money that I had made until that point in time, I was like, where did all that money go?
[00:04:43] And I sat around realizing that I didn't have a whole lot to show for the amount of money that I was making or that I had made. And that was sort of my first instance that something had to change. When I looked at my savings account or the balance on my checking account, I realized again, I didn't have anything to show for it. Well, I did have something to show for it. What I had was a closet full of clothes and, you know, boxes of shoes and things like that. And so that was sort of my first inclination that, okay, something needs to change. Fast forward a few more years, I had really, um, found a career and a job that I really enjoyed.
[00:05:25] And, um, until, it wasn't so ideal anymore. Management changed. My boss has changed some rules changed, and I realized that, you know, if I wanted to get up and leave, I really couldn't. Um, I didn't have the cash cushion. I didn't have, you know, enough in savings that would sustain me until I found another job. And that was sort of the second tale of, okay something, I really need to be doing something different here. And that was my motivation to figure out what to do. Now, I went to the world of Google, right? Like we all do. And I stumbled upon kind of a click baity article. And the article was something to the effect 40 year old, couple retires early and travels the world.
[00:06:16] And traveling is something that I always love to do. So I read the article with a lot of skepticism, but as I read more about their story and sort of, really went down the rabbit hole of what they had done. And they mentioned something called the FIRE Movement. I really got intrigued. And for those who might be wondering what in the world, is FIRE, essentially, it's an acronym that stands for financially independent, retiring early or retired early. Um, and I, you know, wasn't thinking about retirement, but, I did love the idea of not having to work until the age of 65. I was like, who said, and why is that possible? Oh, you know, why, why is it a rule that we have to wait until the age of 65 before we get to enjoy our lives and, you know, have more freedom over our time. And so I really liked this idea of, wow, what about if I could retire at 55 or 50? And so that was how I started on the FIRE journey.
[00:07:24] Ashley: That's awesome. So how did you, once you were inspired and ready to like start making the changes, what did you do?
[00:07:33] Walli: As, you know, getting to know those numbers, right. Really understanding where my money was going. Because yes, my bills were paid but when I made a list of all of my essential expenses, the amount of money that I was supposed to have left, I never had leftover. And so it was really getting clear about what I was doing and it wasn't that I was buying expensive things, right. I wasn't buying $400 pair of jeans or a thousand dollar handbag.
[00:08:03] But what was happening was that I was having sort of these budget or wallet leaks, right. I would go to target to buy toilet paper and paper towel and leave with home decor items. You know, I wouldn't be on my way to fill up the car with fuel and I would make a side trip to TJ Maxx and Nordstrom rack. So it was one of those things where I needed to really understand where my money was going. And, and you're familiar with the term? No spend challenge.
[00:08:31] Ashley: Yeah.
[00:08:32] Walli: Okay. So I decided to try it. I discovered this thing called the no spend challenge. And I failed miserably. I failed multiple times and essentially with no spend challenges is when you dedicate a period of time, sometimes it's a week, sometimes it's a month where you only spend money on the most essential things. And what I realized was happening, it really helped me become aware, was that I was spending money. All of a sudden I was okay, I'm not going to spend any money today. I'm bringing my lunch to work. I have no reason to buy anything that is not on the essential list. And then all of a sudden I would find myself at the vending machine, or I would find myself, even though I brought lunch to work, I'd say I don't really want that, I'm going to go buy lunch or I wouldn't be
[00:09:18] Ashley: That's me like, I don't really want this.
[00:09:23] Walli: I mean, you know, this is what happens. And so if it's like making all of these little purchasing decisions that I didn't really think about. If I let's say for example, plan to buy a shirt, now, all of a sudden I wanted some accessories or I wanted a whole outfit. And so I was really, um, I was, I really failed at doing a no spend challenge, but what it helped me do was become aware and opened my eyes to what was really happening.
[00:09:51] Ashley: Okay. So tell us more about the no spend challenge. Cause you said that you failed at it a lot. And I hear from my people every day that you know, that they're struggling because they failed at budgets before, they failed at this before, and then they just give up and they just feel like a failure. So how did you just keep going?
[00:10:11] Walli: So, what I decided to do was think about what I really valued. Right. And I said, you know what? I am not going to cut out all of eating out, but I am going to reduce the number of times that I eat out. Because sometimes I would just buy something on Uber Eats or, you know, pick up some takeout. And I didn't even remember, you know, it wasn't a memorable, memorable experience.
[00:10:35] And so what I decided to do is say, be more intentional, right? Ah, if I was going to spend time with my friends or family, or I was going to eat out somewhere that I wanted to make sure that it was an intentional decision, right. Rather than having, you know, three $20 meals. It was okay if I spent $30 on a meal, but it was with intention. So that was the first thing.
[00:10:57] The second thing is that I thought about where my money was going. Right. And, if I, and you know, there's a saying that show me your budget, show me your your, uh, account statements, and I'll tell you what you value. And if someone looked at my credit card and my debit card statements, what it was saying that I valued was clothes and shoes. And it was nice to have options for clothes and shoes, but that wasn't really what I was valuing. And if I was honest with myself, I only wore about a quarter of my wardrobe anyways. Right. And so I wanted to say, I want, to switch that message. Instead of saying what I was valuing was clothes and shoes, what I wanted to value was travel. What I wanted to value was experiences over stuff. And so that was how I began to think of it.
[00:11:48] Um, I, you know, went from getting my nails done, like every two weeks to only when I really needed it or when I, you know, maybe once a month or once every few weeks. And so it was making small decisions like that. That really helped me to focus in on the things that was most important. Um, that was how, that was how my journey start.
[00:12:12] Ashley: So, were you able to, or did you focus on paying off debt or investing or maybe both? What was your FIRE journey? What did it look like?
[00:12:21] Walli: Yeah. So I mentioned that I had a car note and student loans, and I don't know about you, but it never occurred to me that I could pay more to those debts. And so I was paying with the standard payment was, um, and I was still working on reducing my spending and, um, sort of mindless shopping. But one of the areas that I thought that I could really, uh, pay down fast, cause by this time I had already been paying down my student loans for a few years. I said, okay, instead of paying the minimum required, what happens if I add another 50 bucks or a hundred bucks? And so I started to do that. And then I started to really notice how the balance was going down. And so that was motivation for me to every time when I was making a purchasing decision and I would literally stand at the checkout and I'd be like, okay, I could buy this $50 thing. I could put $50 extra to my student loans and pay that down even faster.
[00:13:21] And so I focused on paying down my student loans and my car note. And I did that. I did that within, I don't know, maybe a year. Again, I didn't have a whole lot left to go for my student loans, but it definitely accelerated that journey. Now, once I didn't have any student loans and car, you know, that car note, I use that extra money to build my cash reserves. I didn't want to be in a situation where I was waiting for the next paycheck in order to live, in order to make sure that my bills were paid. And so I built that emergency fund. I also built a fund specifically for travel because that was important to me. And once I built that fund, then I began focusing on wealth building. And even that term wealth, wasn't a term that I really related to.
[00:14:14] But I knew that saving money was good for those short term goals. But in order to really leverage the amount of money that I was making and to build wealth and to make sure that I could retire early or like, I like to say, buy my freedom. Um, I needed to accelerate that journey and I started to invest now. And I know for me, when I was thinking about investing, it felt very overwhelming. I knew that there was real estate investing, but that was really expensive to get into, you need down payments and things like that. Um, when I thought about the stock market, I was like, oh, that's like gambling money away. You know. So I needed to figure out. What would, what was the avenue that was going to fit best for me? And I started to read, listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, and really understand all the different avenues of investment. Right? There's real estate, there's stock market, but there's also entrepreneurship.
[00:15:13] And so when I figured out which one was the one that seemed the easiest for me, that was where I started. And I realized that investing wasn't as complicated as it needed to be. And I kind of went through that lane and I started with my 401k, with my job. Um, and sort of as an encouragement to everyone, if you have a 401k or some type of workplace retirement account, putting money aside into those accounts, you may already be an investor. So that is one of the easiest ways to start. And that was where I started.
[00:15:47] Ashley: So do you see, um, what are you thinking for retiring early now? Like now that you're building a business and you said that you wanted the freedom or the option to leave your job, um, what does that look like for you right now?
[00:16:01] Walli: Yeah, so. I started that journey of paying down my debt and really focusing in on my goals in 2015, 2016. Um, today my husband and I are on something called we are on the, on the path, on track, I should say, to being able to retire by the time I'm 40. And so we think about, okay, well, you started in 2015, 2016, and it's only 2020. How is that possible? And it's really about getting focused on what it is that you want to do. So in a couple of years, we will have that option to be able to walk away from our nine to five corporate jobs and be able to live off of our investments.
[00:16:46] Now, although I use the term retire early or buyer, literally, it's in the name. I like to use more, the term work optional. It will give me the freedom to be able to decide, if I want to work, when I want to work, for how long, and I'm not dependent on the paycheck, right? Most of us, we need to work in order to pay our bills. But could you imagine a situation or being in a place where you worked only if you wanted to. And if you didn't, that was fine. If you wanted to be a stay at home parent for a year or four years, you had that ability. If you wanted to try entrepreneurship, you could also do that. So, um, that is how I define FIRE for me. It's not necessarily sitting at a beach with an umbrella drink, doing nothing
[00:17:33] Ashley: That sounds nice though for a little bit but I don't think I could do that every day forever though.
[00:17:39] Walli: Right. That's the whole thing, right? It's not about, um, not being able to, you know, if you wanted to do something you absolutely could. If you wanted to do nothing, you could actually do that too, but it's about really buying your freedom. And so that's how I described the FIRE community or the movement. The ability to buy your freedom from a nine to five, or depending on a paycheck, you basically fund your own retirement or your own quote unquote pension. And so being able to do that and say, you know what, by the time I'm 40, I could decide whether or not I want to continue to work, or I could take a year or five years off or, you know, work at a place that pays so much less, but I'm incredibly passionate about. I like that about the FIRE movement, it gives you options.
[00:18:28] Ashley: Absolutely. So since you have that goal in mind are you still like right now traveling, enjoying your life, uh, those types of things. Or are you like super focused on every penny being sent to retirement and being done early?
[00:18:48] Walli: I love that you asked this question because I think one of the biggest misconceptions about the FIRE movement is that everybody there is like eating rice and beans and not enjoying life. Uh, and that was not how I decided to structure my life. I mean, I mentioned early on what I did was that I cut out the things that were causing these leaks that I didn't really care about. Right. I was spending a lot of money on clothes that I didn't wear that didn't fit, right. That still had tags on them. I was spending money on things that didn't truly add value to my life. So I sat down and made a list of the things that I really cared about. I cared about spending time with my family and I have. family in a different state. So I needed to make sure that I spent money on traveling to see them and staying there.
[00:19:36] I also wanted to travel for fun. I also love to do, um, spend time with my friends. Um, but did I have to go out to brunch or dinner or, you know, spending money in that way? Were there creative ways that I could spend time with the people that I cared about in a more creative way? So I really made my spending plan to reflect what I wanted my life to look like. And the, and I have enjoyed my life. I will continue to enjoy my life this year we actually just remodeled our bathroom. Actually, we remodeled a bathroom last summer. Um, we just redid the floors. These are not things that were absolute necessary, but it was something that was going to add value to my life. And I was able to do that, while still working towards financial independence. So if you can really focus in on the things that you that matter to you most cut out all the other things that are just stealing away from your freedom, stealing away from your dreams and desires. You know, when we think about money, it's not good or bad, right.
[00:20:39] It's a tool. And if we can think about money as a tool, Um, to design the life we want, you make the decision of what you want your life to look like. So yes, I do invest and save a lot of money, but it doesn't override what I want my life to look like today, just to save for the future. Right. Being able to find that balance of, um, what I want today without forfeiting, what I know I'm going to need in the future.
[00:21:08] Ashley: Yeah. See, I can relate more to that. I always view the FIRE community. Like you said, like, oh my gosh, there's no travel, there's no fun in life. You have to save every penny. And I'm like, I just don't connect with that. So I guess that's probably why I don't feel like I'm part of that community, even though I guess technically, I probably am. So it's just like, I can't relate to that. I want to enjoy my life. Like I can't do that.
[00:21:32] Walli: No, absolutely. And it's certain ways, like you have reached a level of financial independence, right? Like you have been able to create and design the life that you want. You have more freedom of your time. You know, we talked about real estate and stock market investing as two type of investments, but also, so is entrepreneurship. Right? So I do have. Um, I'm a real estate investor. I'm a stock market investor. And a couple of years ago, I dip my toe into entrepreneurship and I see the power there is when it comes to entrepreneurship. Right. And so you really need to decide. Which one, which two, which three, right. You want to choose in order to fund that fight, that work optional status, or to reach that early retirement. And also define what retirement means to you. Does that mean doing nothing, never having to earn a single dollar or does that mean earning money if you want to or not earning money, if you don't want to.
[00:22:31] Ashley: Yes. Yes. So. Um, what would you tell somebody that is listening right now? And they're like, okay, Wally, this sounds great. How do I get started?
[00:22:40] Walli: Ooh, the first place to get started, and I post about this all the time on my Instagram, right. People will, uh, come to me and say, okay, I know that I need to start investing. I want to start building wealth and make sure my money is working for me. The question that they're asking me is where should I invest? Right? Like what's the next best company or stock pick that I should choose and where I want to guide them to, or the question that I always ask them first is, are you investing, do you have a retirement plan?
[00:23:14] Do you have a thrift savings plan? A 403b a 401k or an IRA? Those things, I just mentioned sort of the alphabet soup soup, right? It doesn't sound sexy. It doesn't sound like as fun as GameStop or AMC or crypto currency, but it is one of the easiest ways to begin investing. Especially if you do it on an automated system, right. Because if you have that money automatically, set aside into one of these type of investments, then you're able to say, okay, I already did. I did the pay yourself first. I already put money aside. Now, everything that I get in my direct deposit, everything that's a positive into my account is mine to be able to spend on all the things that I need and the things that I want.
[00:24:02] So that is where I really want people to think about. Um, I have a, uh, bootcamp coming up in the next couple of weeks, literally called the Retire Early Bootcamp. So that's another place it's like less than $40. Um, if people really want to figure out how they can sort of start that journey.
[00:24:23] Ashley: Yeah. And we'll link to that in the show notes as well. Um, and so what if somebody has debt, would you instill encourage them to invest while they have debt?
[00:24:35] Walli: The answer is, it depends. Right? So, if you have high interest debt, and so what is high interest at? Right. So when we think about credit cards, when we think about personal loans, um, if your interest rate. 10, 11, 12% or higher, like you really want to focus on paying those things first. Now, if you have a mortgage, for example, and your mortgage is at 2%, 3% sure. If you want to put more money to paying that down as quickly as possible, that is one avenue. But I would offer that another way to think about doing it is instead of putting an additional hundred dollars to your mortgage, use that $100 to invest, um, where you can be getting 8, 9, 10% return on your money, um, in the stock market or through investments.
[00:25:30] And where do I get that number from? In 2021, you know, the stock market was up like 25%, right. In 2020, it was up 20%. So if we, now, obviously those numbers may not always happen. Right. That's why I said, you know, let's estimate that the rotate, the return. In the stock market is going to be eight, nine, 10%. I like to give more conservative numbers because over the long-term we know that's what it'll be. But think about that when you're trying to make a decision of, okay, should I put extra money towards my debt or should I begin investing? And when we think about investments, the biggest, um, factor that we have, isn't the amount of money that you invest, but it's the amount of time that you have invested.
[00:26:18] So someone who starts investing when they're 30 is going to do so much better than someone who starts investing when they're 50 and only has 15 years left for retirement. And even if they could be, they could be putting double or triple the amount of money as a 30 or 25 year old. But a 25 year old has much more time. So time in the market, the length of time you have your investments for that is what's going to calculate how successful you'll be or how compounded that, that, uh, rate will be for you.
[00:26:52] Ashley: Yes. That's so good. We'll have to have you back to talk about investing because that's like a whole nother topic. It's so good though. So as we're running down here, is there anything that you want to take, uh, that you want our listeners to take away from this episode?
[00:27:08] Walli: I don't know about you, but I didn't learn any of this stuff when I was in high school or even college. Right. So it is okay to, not know um, what, you know, made, you've made some mistakes and not have known, but today, you know, a little bit more, you know how important it is to really know your numbers, know how much money you're actually earning, know how much money you're actually spending. And I like to use this phrase called cut the fat. When we're thinking about where should we be putting our money in. The three most topic places where our money goes is in food, accommodations or, uh, living situation, right. Housing, transportation. But I also offer the word T so F A T T the second T is for taxes.
[00:27:59] And so one of the best ways. Um, to reduce your taxes is also saving for your retirement. Um, literally the government here in the United States will, uh, incentivize, incentivize you. If you save for your retirement, they give you a reward and that's paying less in taxes. So if you can really focus in on the food, accommodation, transportation, and taxes, you're going to really be doing a better job.
[00:28:28] Ashley: Yes, because people don't realize, it how much they really pay in taxes. Like it's a lot, people don't think, cause you don't see the money. Right. That's why they take it out before they don't, they don't want you to owe them money. They want to take it from you first. So you don't realize how much they're taking. Uh, so good. So how can people find out more about you maybe connect with you, sign up for your bootcamp, that kind of stuff?
[00:28:54] Walli: Yeah, you can find all my social media handles and everything on my website, which is financiallythriving.com.
[00:29:02] Ashley: Awesome. So, um, I always like to ask people what their favorite non-fiction book is, so that we can continue to learn and, um, you know, just do more along this journey. So do you have a favorite nonfiction book?
[00:29:20] Walli: Okay. So the book that I have to recommend, because it transforms my life when I started to think about building wealth. And when I started to think about investing. Is a book called The Simple Path To Wealth. It's a short read. It's written by an author J L Collins, but it is a fantastic book. So The Simple Path To Wealth by J L Collins.
[00:29:43] Ashley: Yes, that's a good one. All right. Well, thank you so much for being with us.
[00:29:49] Walli: Thank you for having me.
[00:29:52] Ashley: Thank you to Wally for sharing her journey towards FIRE and financial independence. She had some great tips and advice. Be sure to go sign up for her Investing Bootcamp. If you are ready to learn more about investing so that you can do what you want in life as well.
[00:30:10] And if you are more focused on paying off debt, don't forget we have the Free Debt Starter Kit at budgetsmadeeasy.com/debt to get started without the overwhelm. Just go get started, right? That's the first step. Even when you fail, you've got to keep going. Success is inevitable and I will talk to you guys next week.