Epi 75 - Michelle Onaka
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[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Money Mindset Podcast, where you will find the inspiration and motivation you need to manage your money better so you can stress less and live the life you want. It's Ashley with Budgets Made Easy and the Money Mindset Podcast. Today, we actually have a guest that has been on before. So we have Michelle who was on episode number 63. So she is a mom of two young children, a part-time university academic counselor, supporting first generation college students. That's a mouthful and founder of Intentional Money Life. And so on. Her previous episode, which you can go back and listen to number 63, she shares, uh, how she's created an intentional life and how she was really intentional with, um, being able to travel while going to college and not, um, taking on a lot of college debt and how she was really strategic with, um, how she was able to do that. And it was actually really interesting story. So, you know, it's not like she came from a family of money or anything like that. She had to figure it out on her own. And she got extremely creative during that conversation because of her job at the part-time, um, as a part-time university academic counselor, we talked about different ways to kinda save money on college and how, um, you know, things that she specifically did. But I wanted to bring her back because she has such good information on ways to save money, um, with college and all these resources out there that most people including myself do not know about. So in this episode, we really dive into grants different types of grants, grants for different situations and how, um, you know, kind of the system works and different things that are available to you. So you can be strategic in your college planning. So even if you wanna go to a community college, but you know, you want to save money, but you know, you wanna go to a four year to graduate with a certain degree, things that you can do to make sure you're not wasting your time and your money through that process. And then of course, if you, um, have a disability or are a first generation student, um, and I, oh gosh, I forgot the third thing. Um, there are extra resources available, uh, for you through the program that sh and the grant that she actually works through. And the stuff that they're doing is really Ugh. It's just awesome. So I wish I had those types of resources when I was going to college and trying to figure it all out on my own. So you don't have to do it alone anymore. Um, you know, if you know somebody that can benefit from this information, please share this episode with them. 

[00:03:04] And as always, if you are trying to just get started with a budget, trying to reign in some spending, whether it's so that you can kid to college, or maybe not take on so much college debt, um, you know, start with your budget and go to budgetsmadeeasy.com/start to get your Free Budget Starter Kit today. And here is Michelle. 

[00:03:27] Hi Michelle. It's so nice to have you back on the Money Mindset Podcast. 

[00:03:32] Michelle: Hi, good to be here. 

[00:03:34] Ashley: Yeah. So you are on episode number 63, and we've talked about your journey through college and paying for it, uh, without, um, I think you had a little bit of debt, but you know, not much at all, because you got creative with how you paid for it. And you were strategic in the things that you did with finding different jobs and traveling like you were still able to travel all over the place because you were really strategic with your plan and how to pay for it all and still be able to enjoy your life with travel. During that conversation, we really talked about, um, how to pay for college and different ways to do that because it just naturally wove into the conversation. And so I wanted to bring you back today to really dive deeper into that conversation because at the time that this is airing, it's almost time for kids to go back to school and you first generation, uh, students go to college, right? Like that's your job and your focus. And so, uh, we're gonna dive into that today. . 

[00:04:39] Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. Let me first just tell you what my job is because not everyone's aware of it. So trio student support services. It is a federally funded program. So trio are actually, it's like eight programs. They were originally a trio of programs, so we're called trio, but there's like eight or something programs. Um, trio programs are funded by the. The department of education and there's upward bound, which is the one that most people have heard of. If they've heard of trio programs. So upward bound is like the middle or high school version.

[00:05:07] And then there's student support services, which is the college version. So I work with college students. They do not have to pay me at all because the department of education pays me through my university. Um, and we are there to support students, trying to help them get through their college degree. So yeah, we, I work one on one with students, as well, as, you know, as our program, we have to provide all of these services. And so we provide financial literacy. We provide help with financial aid, things like that while we're kind of just trying to support them in all the ways to help them graduate. So, yes, for first generation college students, students with disabilities and students who are Pell eligible more or less, which is the Pell grant program. That's also by the department of education. 

[00:05:50] Ashley: Yeah. And I was able to get a Pell grant. Uh, I think my first year of college, not after that, I think I got it one time. Uh, maybe two semesters. I can't remember, but I know it was my first year. I got it. I can't remember if I got it both semesters or not. And that was very helpful because that you don't have to pay back.

[00:06:06] Michelle: Yeah. So the Pell grant, the, the maximum right now is something 6,000 something or other that if you are eligible, if you are EFC right now, your ex expected family contribution, if your EFC is zero, then you get the maximum Pell grant for the year. And right now the maximum Pell grant is in the six thousands. And so, yeah, that's 6,000 something dollars per year for a student that might you. That that could pay for their full tuition, if they're really lucky or could pay for some other things.

[00:06:37] Ashley: Now, is there a, um, besides the $6,000, um, I have heard in the past, so I don't know how true this is. So for me, like I got, I think I got like 700. Like I didn't get a lot, but I got some and I mean, Hey, it's free money. I'll take it. Right. Um, but I had heard that there weren't, uh, like not as many students were getting Pell grants anymore. True or is that maybe just a misconception? 

[00:07:02] Michelle: I, I don't know. I haven't seen like a graph of, you know, how who's eligible and how that works, but I can say that it's a complicated mathematical formula where they're going to determine your family's EF C and then the EF C is what determines if you get the Pell grant. So if your EFC is below the maximum Pell grant for the year, Then it's it's around, it's like a $500 below. I think it has to be around $500 below the limit. So if your EFC is $5,000, you would get the difference between the maximum, uh, Pell grant and your EFC. And so it's kind of a, a reverse relationship or whatever. And so I think it just depends on what your EFC is and that FC calculation is really tricky. And I think, sorry, my dog's shaking I think it should. I think it may change in the future. They've been talking about all of these changes and I think they're supposed to happen. They were originally I think, supposed to happen this coming year, but that I, I'm not sure when this is gonna happen.

[00:08:02] And so they're supposed to complicate the FAFSA or they're supposed to Uncomplicate the FAFSA in general. Yeah. It's already complicated enough. Yeah, it is . And when they do that, the. The calculations may be completely different and we may see it look completely different, but right now, as it is, they're still using the EFC and it's still the same EFC calculation. And it's really frustrating because it's not something that's super simple that you can just be like, Hey, let me look at my taxable income on my taxes or something like that, which is also frustrating for my program, because actually we have to look at the taxable income number to determine if a student is eligible for a program. Even though I say Pell eligible. Actually based on taxable income and taxable income, isn't even on the FPS in the first place. So the department of education uses something different in two different places and yeah, it's really, really 

[00:08:51] Ashley: Why, why am I not surprised? You know? 

[00:08:53] Michelle: Right. Yeah. So, so I, I don't know that it's necessarily changed. I just know that they're calculating your EFC and your EFC determines whether you're going to get P or not. And if your EF FFC is $7,000, then. They're saying that your family can afford to spend $7,000 for you to go to school and you are no, not gonna be Pell eligible. 

[00:09:13] Ashley: So what is from what you've you've seen and I realize it can, it may vary because of the calculations, generally speaking, uh, the EFC like what's around what's the threshold to maybe be Pell eligible or is it just kinda, 

[00:09:30] Michelle: So the threshold of the EFC to be Pell eligible is around what the Pell maximum. Oh, okay. So if the Pell maximum right now is 6,000 something, then the EF C is roughly around 6,000. Oh, okay. If you're below that, then you know that you're guaranteed Pell grants. And if you're above that, then you're not gonna get Pell grants. And so if you are on the cusp of that, that's where especially, um, you know, if you get an EFC of $8,000 or something and something happens with your family. So right now with FAFSA, because it's looking it's not looking at your most recent year. It's looking at the prior year. Mm. If that makes sense. I know so many things can change makes it even 

[00:10:06] Ashley: more complicated. 

[00:10:07] Michelle: Right. And so many things can change. Which also means if you're close to being able to be Pell eligible , or if you are Pell eligible , but you're not, you don't have a zero EF FFC. that's where it makes a lot of sense to do petitions with the university to say, okay, the, it says that I am eligible. You know, it says that my family can pay $5,000, but truthfully, this is what happened in the past year. And that's why I should be eligible for more basically. And so if you're around the, if you're just close to that, if you're in the, like, anything under 10,000, but not at zero EF C that's where if something changes within your family, you definitely wanna let the financial aid office know so that you can potentially do some sort of appeal that might give you access to more free money.

[00:10:49] Ashley: Yes, because that could happen with like a divorce, you know, as an example, um, because I know, uh, family member of mine. You know, they had gotten married and then their daughter went to college and they ended up having to take parent plus loans because their combined income was quite a bit, even though she, you know, the mom didn't make that much money and then they got divorced like two months into college, you know? And then they, yeah, it's, they're still saying that they gotta owe all the, they gotta pay all this money, you know, type of thing. So definitely. Do you have a major life event? Like. Definitely check on that. 

[00:11:23] Michelle: And as the student, if you do anything that could make you independent, that would have a big impact on your financial situation, because if you become an independent student, they're not going to ask for your parents' financial information. So if you, um, get married, Or, um, have a dependent. So if you have a child or something, those are some of the big ways that you can be considered independent. And as soon as you be considered independence, unless you're from a family that didn't have much money in the first place, but if you're from a family that, you know, had some money and therefore you had an EFC of more than, more than $6,000, then if you do become independent, then that can really, really impact your EFC and therefore your Pell eligibility and, and a lot of other grants, a lot of state grants typically determine, whether you're eligible based on whether you're Pell eligible. So being Pell eligible is actually than just getting that free money, because often you might be able to get, you know, another $3,000 from your state just because you're Pell eligible in the first place. 

[00:12:20] Ashley: Oh, good to know. So, um, I've heard it's really hard to be declared independent. So it is, I mean, you said what get married and, or have a child. Is that kind of like the main thing . 

[00:12:34] Michelle: Um, there is also being declared homeless. So if you were declared homeless before a certain age or something like that, um, there are very limited situations. So if your home is literally an unsafe place, if it is unsafe for you to be around your family, that can potentially get you independent status, but it's pretty severe.

[00:12:56] It's not just like my parents do not put any money towards my college. They're gonna be like, yeah, it doesn't matter to me. 

[00:13:03] Ashley: and at what age are you in? 

[00:13:06] Michelle: just by age 23 or 24. It's something like that. It's it's a couple years after if you go straight from a high school to college, it's a couple years after you would graduate from college. Pretty much. 

[00:13:17] Ashley: Okay. That's why I was so nice of them. Yeah, I know. Right. And it's like, really, like, you're a, you're an adult at 18, so yeah. Anyway, that's a whole other conversation. I'm sure yes. Cause I know it can be hard. Um, I've had another family member that, um, had trouble going to college because their parents, it, it, it was not a good family situation. And he moved out in high school, lived with another relative and they wouldn't fill out the FAFSA. And yeah. Yeah. So they went into the military and went, took that route, but yep. 

[00:13:49] Michelle: And sometimes that homelessness thing. Right? So sometimes if you, you get a couple people to basically vouch for, you know yes. While the student was in high school, I was aware of the situation and they had an unstable home and they were regularly kind of staying with fam with other people, things like that. So, so that's where I can. Come into play for sure. So if anyone out there does have kind of an unstable family environment or they don't always have, you know, sometimes we don't consider ourselves homeless, whereas the technical definition might be homeless.

[00:14:19] Ashley: That's true. Yeah. 

[00:14:20] Michelle: If you are, you know, staying on friends' couches or something that might be enough to, to declare you as homeless, as long as there are people that are aware of that situation and are willing to kind of vouch for that situation.

[00:14:33] Ashley: Now, how would you, um, How would, what do you need to do to be declared independent?

[00:14:40] Michelle: So I think. I'm not 100% sure actually. So when you fill out the FAFSA, it asks you, you know, mm-hmm do any of these apply to you and then you would select if you would, maybe you would select the homeless situation. And then I think it's going to ask you for some specific paperwork, I think, or the university that you are the college that you're applying to would ask you for that specific paperwork. So I know when you fill out the PAF side, the FAF said, asks the questions and somewhere along the line, you're gonna have to find that paperwork. I'm just not sure. Yeah. 

[00:15:11] Ashley: Gotcha. Yeah, I think I vaguely remember that question. It's been a long time since I filled out the FSFA. Um, so basically just to clarify, cause I don't think we've mentioned it to get all of these or any of these resources they do need to fill out the FSFA correct? 

[00:15:26] Michelle: Yeah. So the FAFSA is something that. Nearly all college students fill out. They should all probably fill out. And that is something that it opens on October 1st. So it's opening on, on October 1st, 2022. And that will be it. Won't actually, you won't actually get the money until. Like August or September or so of the following year, 2023. So it happens. So this October, 2022, you're going to submit tax information from last year 2021 mm-hmm and then they're gonna determine next year's financially around it. Yeah. 

[00:16:07] Ashley: So, is there, like, do, is there a reason for them to go ahead and fill it out in October instead of waiting until maybe the spring? Like yes. Can money run out? 

[00:16:18] Michelle: Yes. Especially grant funding. So you have the. Best chances to get the most amount of funding. If you fill it out right away, often places will say that there's a priority deadline of say February. So it opens in October and you have a priority deadline of February. I would fill it out. If you have the documents, I would fill it out within the first week that it opens. Because you never know, for sure you don't know how that university or that community college is gonna do it. It's gonna give you the best chances. So unless you have a reason, why say your parents taxes are not complete or something for the previous year, I would go ahead and get it done as soon as you possibly can, but you could also check with that university or community college where you're planning to go to see if they have a priority deadline, but you're gonna be safe by doing it in the first week of October anyway. So you might as well just do it that way if you can. 

[00:17:05] Ashley: So if a student is, um, you know, if they're thinking that they would be eligible for the Pell grants or maybe whatever programs you offer, um, what do they need to do? Is there somebody that they need to contact at the school to get your services? Or how does that part work? 

[00:17:22] Michelle: To be a part of Trio SSS? Um, okay. So the first thing that you would wanna do is you'd one need to figure out, is there a trio program at the school that you're planning to go to? So there are trio grants all across the country, but it is up to the school. Up, up to someone had to have requested the grant and gotten, offered the grant and they have to run the program. And so sometimes you're gonna go to schools that do not have a trio program. And you might look for, I would go to the university or college website and I would look for something like student support services. Because even if you don't find trio, SSS, you might find other support services that would be valuable. Um, but yeah, so the first thing would be figuring out what kinds of support services are at the school. If you find that they have a trio program and you are a first generation college student, you have a document dis documented disability or you think you're gonna be Pell eligible more or less, then I would encourage you to apply to that program. And so for instance, at my university, I'm at Oregon state university, you go to our website, you search for trio. SSS, you'll get to our website and it's like apply here. There's a couple places where it just says, like apply now and you would fill out the application. On our application, at least it is going to ask you to get out the most recent tax documents for your family. If you are dependent and, uh, to tell us what your taxable income is. As I was saying before, it's really frustrating. And it makes us get this number that I cannot get from the FAFSA, but that should be changing as well. I think at some point in the future anyways, so you basically say like, yes, I'm, you know, I have this documented disability or I'm first gen or whatever, and here's my other information. Let me apply to the program. Every program can run itself a little bit differently. So it's possible that that's not the way you would apply, but that would be my first guess if you cannot find a way to apply and you do find that there's a program at your intended college or university, I would email or call that program and see how, how can I apply to this program? One thing that's nice is that our trio programs, they work with students at any year. So, you know, you can be a senior in college and you can come to us. And as long as we think that you need services and you can use the support and you're eligible, then we can go ahead and serve you.

[00:19:27] Or you can come in as a first year student and you can stay for six years. Like it's, it's, it continues that stays with you the whole time, which was really. 

[00:19:35] Ashley: That's awesome. So what, um, services do you offer? What does this program do? 

[00:19:39] Michelle: Yeah, ours. So we do a summer bridge program, so it's a one to five day. Like students come on campus early and get to know campus and get to know us and get to know other students and stuff like that. We do a summer bridge program. We do classes and all of our classes are free because they're paid for by the federal grant, which is great. And so these, we 

[00:20:00] Ashley: So these like extra classes, not college courses.

[00:20:03] Michelle: These are college courses. Yeah. So they're not like you're, you know, we're, we're not offering psychology 2 0 1 or anything, but we are offering extra courses that they can take for free and get credit towards graduation. 

[00:20:13] Ashley: Oh, cool. 

[00:20:14] Michelle: Yeah. So my program, we offer a fall course for like incoming students. It's like a transition, helping them get into the, into the university. We offer a career course for, um, students who are getting close to graduation and we offer a financial planning course, which is the one that I teach, uh, for students who are getting close to graduation as well, then we offer academic counseling. So it's someone that you meet with every, you know, every term for the entire time, you're at the university and kind of helping, giving you support and strategizing and accountability and whatever it is that you need. We offer peer mentoring. We offer laptop rentals. We offer fun things. Like we took our students snowboarding last winter. Um, awesome. We do workshops. It's a really cool program. I, I definitely would say if you are eligible for a trio program, so all trio programs are gonna be different, but we all have to offer specific things. We have to offer some sort of tutoring or academic support. We have to offer some sort of financial literacy component. So there's some things that we have to offer regardless. They're all gonna be really good support, help you build a support system and help you. You know, navigate the institution and the different systems of the institution. It's, it's a really cool thing. I it's, it's actually like my dream job when I decided to go back to graduate school. Uh, this is the kind of program that I wanted to work for. My only complaint with trio. SSS, is that because it's federally funded I don't believe we're technically allowed to work with undocumented students. So if I could do this exact same thing, but also include undocumented students, that that was kind of my dream 

[00:21:42] Ashley: Yeah. I, I mean, it sounds fun and you're doing. You know, good things for the community and for your students. So that's, I have never heard of this program. So I just like wanted to talk to you more about it and love that you were able to, you know, help students with this kind of stuff and give that extra support. Cuz college is stressful on its own. And when you have less resources or less ability, it makes it so much hard. 

[00:22:10] Michelle: Yeah. And if you don't have, you know, parents and siblings that have been through it and understand even if, and I don't know what the, the technical definition of first generation is a little bit confusing, but even if you, you know, say you came over from Vietnam and your parents did get degrees, but they're in Vietnam. Like how much support are they really gonna be able to give you in navigating the universities in the uni, in the United States? It's a, you know, it's a tricky thing. And so even when, you know, with my first generation students, even when their parents are 100% behind them. There's only so much that they can do because they don't know, you know, how to navigate these things. And then also the parents don't have access to all the financial information or all, anything at the university. The parents can't just call and be like, Hey, what's going on with my kids? FAFSA. Or, Hey, how's my kid doing in this class. Like they can't get that information. And so having someone at the university, like I can look up the student's grades and I can look up their financial situation and I can meet with them. And I can talk about it. Like one of the things that I've I've started doing several years ago was we run this process where every term I reach out, I send like 800 emails, um, to the professors of the students that we work with, that we're the most worried about, or that are new to our program or. Going to graduate soon, we send an email to all those professors, um, before it's too late to withdraw from classes. And we say like, how is this student performing in this class? And we get to get this information. And then if we get, if we hear back, like this student is failing, you know, we get to reach out to those students before it's too late and talk to them about like, Can you change your performance? And if so, what, what kind of support do you need to do that? And how can we strategize to do that? And if it is too late and you really don't think that you can pass this class well, let's protect your GPA and let's help you withdraw from the class or something. So it's like all of that, almost like academic knowhow or like structural knowhow, like the ability to navigate the system that you know, that the academic counselors have that we can, you know, as we build relationships with the students, the students can know like, Hey, I can go to this person. I can text this person and, you know, get this kind of, uh, help. Yeah. It's really cool. 

[00:24:20] Ashley: That's great. I mean, just that. You know, the whole system is overwhelming. So when you have more knowledge about how it all works, you're less stressed, you're able to navigate it and, you know, yeah. And you know, what's funny is you mentioned, you know, the, the parents can't call to school, but yet, you know, they have to give their financial information and, and you know, have to pay for some of it for a lot of them, and yet they can't call the school and get the information. The system is just so dumb. 

[00:24:47] Michelle: Yeah. and even, and even like, you know, at least in my school, which is probably the case everywhere, you have to add your parent to the portal to be able to pay the bill anyway. But like, we're going to, going to expect that the parent pays this and we're gonna determine everything based on the parent paying and yet. Sorry apparent you don't get to know anything about anything. 

[00:25:04] Ashley: It makes no sense. It it's like great. Okay. That's a whole, uh, that's a whole other soapbox. . So is there anything else that people should know that I haven't asked you that, um, you know, that this may apply to, um, anything else that they should know before we wrap up.

[00:25:23] Michelle: Yeah. So I would say, uh, we talked a lot about kind of Pell eligibility and things like that. Mm-hmm but a lot of you out there won't have kids that are Pell eligible. And so you're going to be dependent on scholarships. So one make sure your students are applying for scholarships. That's a really big one.

[00:25:37] Ashley: Mm-hmm 

[00:25:38] Michelle: um, especially like the local scholarships, the state based scholarships, the kind of identity based scholarships, things like that. So making sure scholarships, another thing is just being strategic in general. So. In my state, there is a program where you can be enrolled at the community college and be enrolled at the university at the same time and take classes, kind of share your full, full time status between the two institutions and pay directly to the different institutions. So that is a really great way to be strategic. 

[00:26:08] Ashley: Wow. Yeah, I think we did talk about that last time we did. And I forgot about that. Yes. Let's talk more about that. 

[00:26:13] Michelle: yeah. And so you, you never know if your school. State does that. So in Oregon, I can tell you that the DPP program, the degree partnership program is really cool and allows that to happen. And what's cool is even there are even some community colleges in Hawaii that have that. So I can have students, I have a student right now who can't figure out housing for next year and she's like, well, my backup plan is to go live with my aunt. On on Oahu. And I'm like, okay, well we have the degree partnership program where you could actually still be an OSU student and take classes there and you could take some remotely via E campus or here, and, you know, here things to make that work. Um, so definitely looking to see if there is any sort of program like that. I would say community colleges are a lot cheaper. They're usually about a third of the price, more or less of the universities. The state institution, universities, which are even cheaper than the private ones. And so. Figuring out how you can be strategic to use those community colleges is, is a good idea.

[00:27:13] Just know that if you have, if you know, for sure, Hey, I want to graduate with a chemistry degree from Oregon State University. You need to go into that community college knowing that. And if you possibly can, you need to make sure that you try to get advising from the final university. If you can about that, because otherwise you might go in and take just thinking like, oh, I'm just gonna take, I'm just gonna get an associate's degree. And you don't realize that in that associate's degree, you need specific classes. Otherwise you're going to switch to the university and you're not only gonna have two years left. And so, especially if you're thinking anything, that's science based. Anything that's math or science based. I would say those are the ones you need to be really, really extra, especially careful about being strategic with, because if you don't start the right science sequences at the beginning, then you're probably gonna be, be behind when you switch to the university, if you're gonna do that. And so, yeah, so I would say being strategic is always a good thing to do that, but being strategic doesn't necessarily mean, okay, I must start at a community college because if you're not strategic with that community college experience, you might still end up being in school even longer. Trying to learn as much as you can, about where do you eventually plan to graduate from? What is the major that you plan to graduate from and what are all of the different requirements for that major at that institution? And trying to make sure, okay. If I, okay. This. This major says that I have to have economics 2 0 1 is economics 1 0 1 at this community college. Is that going to be equivalent to economics 2 0 1 at the university. And so at least at my university there is. And if you know the right words to look for which you wouldn't know them, because why would you know that? Um, yeah, but I can just. Search for like transfer articulation at my university and I can actually bring up and I can look at okay, at that community college, the course is called this and that comes in as this here. And yes, that is equivalent or no, that's not equivalent. And the reason I actually used economics as an example was because there that is, that is the case. So at the local community college, there is an economics course that sometimes students take thinking it's economics 2 0 1 here and it is not. And then they come in and they're like, wait a second. I already took economics, but it's, it was not the correct economics. And so things like that. And then that's stuff that you can't really possibly know by yourself. 

[00:29:30] Ashley: Mm-hmm . 

[00:29:30] Michelle: And so part of being strategic is seeking resource. So that's another big thing that we talk to our students about, but that's something that everyone should now seek resources, you know, seek out. Can you find someone who's willing to talk to you from the university? Can you find someone who's willing to talk to you at the community college or wherever it is, try to see if you can get people to connect you to other people, you know, really finding your resources will help you to be strategic way better than just, you know, getting on a computer and trying to figure it out yourself. I mean, there's nothing wrong with getting on a computer and trying to figure it out yourself. I would always run that by someone else. I would say like, okay, this is my plan. This is what I'm thinking. Let me run that by this person, my high school counselor. And let me run that by my community college advisor. And let me run that by my university advisor and the trio SSS program. If I have access to one. 

[00:30:16] Ashley: Yeah, because that could be a great, um, way to save money. And I know a lot of people's hesitation with community school is that not all the classes will transfer. Like they know they're gonna go to a four year. So if, like you said, if you can reach out ahead of time and take the classes that will transfer. Then you can save quite a bit of money. 

[00:30:36] Michelle: Right, right. The ones that are gonna transfer and the ones that are gonna transfer into what they need to transfer into for you. Mm-hmm so, yeah. That's why. And, and so it just makes it a lot harder if you don't know what you wanna study, it just makes it a little bit harder because then you're like, okay, how can I be strategic? And so in that situation, I would put a lot of time and effort into trying to discover what you wanna study. I know at my university, we have a really good advising office that has really good advisors that will, so I used to be one of them. Um, will sit down and talk to you about, you know, okay, here are all the majors at the university, you know, what are you thinking about? And they will help you to be strategic in terms of, okay. You said that you were interested in exploring, in exploring biology as a major. And you're also interested in exploring psychology. So what do we need to get you into this term so that you can one not be behind in either of those majors, if you choose that and two start to explore those. And so you may have an office like that anywhere that you go that can be really, really, really helpful to help you. Like I said, not get behind, like how do I, okay. You know, if you came in and said that at my institution, what was, is kind of weird. We would have you take chemistry first. For some reason, we always do chemistry first. And so we would wanna get you the worst class ever. Yeah. and so, yeah, as a U S P advisor, as the undecided advisor, one of the things that, that we would often do is, you know, do basically, do we need to get you into chemistry and usually we need to get you into math maybe, but then also, okay. You're interested in psychology. Is there a psychology class that we can get you into that would meet your kind of general education requirements? If you don't decide to go into psychology, but also would help you explore psychology? Like that's the kind of stuff that people in those kinds of offices can really help you with, which is helpful.

[00:32:27] Ashley: That's great. Like when I went to school, if there was services like this, I did not know about them. And I went to two different schools. And so like, I just love that, um, that all these resources are available now. I'm a, they might have been, then I have no idea but you know, that we're letting people know because college is so freaking expensive. Um so anyway, you can save some money is the way to go. Um, now is there, um, I know we kind of started talking about the community college thing. Was there anything else that you wanted to add that I didn't ask you about? Cuz you know, this is outside, outside of my realm of expertise, so 

[00:33:09] Michelle: um, I guess I would just say a couple other things related to all of this one would be, um, and now I've already forgotten what it was.

[00:33:21] Oh no. Oh, if you take, I remember if you take college courses and you're in high school, mm-hmm if you end up being something like Pell eligible, just know that those courses, even if no one had to pay for those, even if you didn't get Pell grants for those courses, those courses might impact your ability to get financial aid for an extended period of time.

[00:33:43] And so really? Yeah. So what I mean is that there is. So you have, you have financial aid for time and a half to graduation. And so what that means is that if my university, you get 180 credits, that's what you need to get a bachelor's degree. So if you're just getting a regular bachelor's degree and you need 180 credits, that means you would get 180 plus 90 plus half of that. So time and a half. So you get 2 70, 270 credit. That you can take and still get financial aid for, if you come in with a hundred credits, even if those were during high school, that's getting you close. You know, that's getting you closer to that 270. So just knowing that that's a thing for, for financial aid. Also knowing that for financial aid, you have to maintain satisfactory academic progress, which means you basically can't fail too many your classes, or can't not pass too many of your classes. And so that is 67%. I assume that that's everywhere, but it's definitely at my university. And so making sure that you're being careful not to, you know, start a whole bunch of classes and not complete them all successfully.

[00:34:46] And then you also main have to maintain good GPA or a passable GPA, which is a 2.0 at my institution. And so you can lose financial aid if you basically, if you fail too many classes or if you withdraw from too many classes. And so that's just something to know. And then if you do have any of those problems, there should be a petition process where you can petition to get your financial aid back. And then thinking about loan repayment. Uh, we haven't even talked about student loans or anything. And so I should mention those. 

[00:35:14] Ashley: That's probably a whole nother episode. . 

[00:35:17] Michelle: Every time we talk, it's like, oh, maybe we'll cover that next time. Yeah. But just a few things to know about student loans are that one, if you are accruing interest while you were the student, and, you know, kind of before repayment started the interest, didn't actually add to the principle of the loan yet. And so you're not getting charged interest on interest yet. Okay. Once your loan goes into repayment, that's when it is capitalized. That's when it's added to the, to the loan principle. And so if you are someone who's getting close to graduation and you do have unsubsidized, uh, student loans, I would encourage you hopefully you'll get it, uh, forgiven by the government right now. But if that doesn't happen, then I would encourage you to pay off. Interest at least so that, that doesn't get capitalized and added to your loan balance in the first place. So that's something to know. Yes. And then always being aware that, you know, student loans, federal student loans have options for reducing your payment. So if you could make your student loans, making sure that you're aware of there's forbearance, there's deferment, and then there are multiple different, um, what's that called? Repayment plans. Like you can get on a different payment plan where you pay less. And so, you know, I know you probably talk about credit with people mm-hmm so student loans impact your credit. And so making sure that you, even if you can't pay them, you, you know, work with your loan servicer to figure something out. And the good thing about federal student loans is that they do give you a lot more options than a lot of private loans do, which is also why a lot of people had no payments for the past couple years, which has been really helpful.

[00:36:58] Ashley: And is there a way, um, for, you know, cuz a lot of students, I mean they probably don't even know how much student loan debt they have until after they graduate and find out how much the payment is, you know, they may, they just get like the yearly sheet or whatever. And if they're not paying attention, it adds up really fast. So, um, is there an easy way for them to figure out, uh, how much in student loans they already have before the graduate? 

[00:37:24] Michelle: Yes. Yes. So they can actually log to the FAFSA website and through the FAFSA website, they can see, you know, have they used do if they're Pell eligible , how much of their Pell eligibility have they used? Because you only get six years of eligibility. Okay. You can log in and you can see that. And you can also log in and see how much do you have out in total student loans right now? How much in subsidized, how much in un-subsidized. Who is your loan servicer, and then you can actually make an account at your loan servicer website. So you can do that while you're in school. You don't have to wait until you're done and you can even start making payments to that loan servicer. If you happen to have income that you wanted to use to do that. So, yeah, that's actually one of the activities that we do with our students on the way in and on their way out as much as possible is getting them to figure out, you know, How much do I have in student loans right now? How much can I expect to have? What will loan repayment look like for me based on my intended career. So that's an activity that I have the students do, where they look up their expected income in their career. And then we consider how much we think that they're gonna be in debt. And then we look at what are your different loan, repayment, options, and all of that kind of stuff. So you can totally do. 

[00:38:33] Ashley: That's great. Cause I didn't know that you could just make an account with FASFA. I think, gosh, when I went to school, I don't even remember doing it online. I might have, but I remember there being like a form, like I had to actually like mail it in. Right, right. Not that I'm not even that old, but I'm feeling really old. Right. 

[00:38:51] Michelle: I think, I think I probably did a physical form too. 

[00:38:54] Ashley: I think I did. I'm pretty sure I did. I remember filling out a form. Yeah. I didn't even know you could log in and see all that stuff. So that's awesome. Um, that's a great resource because it's important to not just ignore it until you graduate. So I'm glad that you're doing those exercises with your students.

[00:39:12] Michelle: Yes. Yeah. So definitely trying to figure out what's my situation. And what's this going to look like? All of that 

[00:39:19] Ashley: mm-hmm is, and I like that you put it with the career because I could tell some stories about people's degrees, that they have massive amounts of debt for that they'll never use. That's a whole other conversation too. I'm sure. But you know, make sure, at least in my opinion, and you can tell me yours, but I mean, I don't know my opinion right now is so many people don't use their degree. So unless you're specifically gonna be like a nurse or, you know, something really specific. If you're just getting a general degree, like make it something useful, like business or, you know, I mean, just something that can be applied to many jobs, many aspects of life. 

[00:40:01] Michelle: And I would would say, and I would say be strategic with it too. Right. So please. And so that could mean, you know, maybe for you, that means, uh, a degree in, you know, writing or something that other people don't think is, you know, particularly good. But if you're strategic with that and you get a lot of experience and you know what you're going towards and all of that, and you're not going into a whole bunch of debt to do it, mm-hmm, see. That's the thing too. Yeah. As if you go into a hundred thousand dollars of debt and you're. Literally just like, I'm just here for school. I don't know what I'm doing then you're not having really any, any intentionality and you're not able to be strategic. And so yeah, I would think that's definitely can be an issue.

[00:40:39] Ashley: Yeah.

[00:40:39] Michelle: I do think it's important to study things that you care about and knowing that, you know, it's okay if you don't know exactly what it's gonna do, but really trying to use that time to, you know, yeah. Have an internship or, you know, try to really actually push yourself to do things which I did not do when I was in college. I was just like, can I just get a degree because that's what I want. So that's one place that I, I was strategic in terms of like getting the degree and getting it with not a lot of loans, but I wasn't very strategic with what I was gonna do with it. Cause I had no idea what I wanted to do with it. 

[00:41:07] Ashley: Yeah. And what's funny is I don't, I mean, I guess in some aspects I do use my degree. Um, but I have a psychology degree. I got it initially because I wanted to be a counsellor but then when I got done with my bachelor's, I was sick of school and didn't wanna go get my master's. And so then I did that, like, I went on some ride alongs and, um, with my father-in-law, who was a trooper at the time. And so then I decided, well, I'll just be a police officer for now . And so, I mean, I guess that was, that's kind of more of a general degree that you can. You're applying it everywhere. Yeah. Aspects. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:41:44] Michelle: So what's hard is that it's not specific. It's not like I got this degree and therefore I am doing this and I am using my degree, but you are gonna be using it in various ways.

[00:41:54] Ashley: Exactly. And like, you know, they have criminal justice degrees cuz I minor to criminal justice, but, that's like one of the most useless degrees I can think of what are you going to do with that? It doesn't like you don't need it to be in law enforcement. it's not helpful for anything outside of law enforcement. So please don't do that. Like, and so many people I worked with had a criminal, cuz I mean they're in law enforcement stuff, but it's not. Like for me, I wanna leave all my options open. So, you know, psychology can be applied in many different, uh, aspects of life and J and, you know, even my job as a financial coach now, I I'm using psychology and the different things that I've learned about how the brain works and that kind of thing. What the heck would, did anybody else do with criminal justice degree? Sorry. Okay. I'm done. so just think about that. Even if you do wanna go into law enforcement, you don't have to get criminal justice, like do something that's still kind of related like psychology or sociology. I know people in law enforcement did that, um, you know, myself included and it's more applicable. More things. 

[00:43:00] Michelle: It's actually the same with pre-medicine and pre-law often, um, so at my institution there isn't really a specific like pre-medicine option because it's like, well, you could do any major here and go into medicine, so you don't need to get a degree in. Pre-medicine or anything or seeing with pre-law they often, they often, and in both places, I think they often say develop yourself in other ways, not just in this way. And so it's actually, I think can be to your benefit, to not major in like the most standard options for medicine or for law or whatever, and just kind of figure out what's a good fit for you. And how can you. Get the required courses that you need to get done to, to make you eligible for whatever the next step is without necessarily always going straight to, well, I wanna be a police officer and I must get a criminal justice degree, which we don't have at my institution. We don't have a degree in criminal justice. We have sociology and we have an option in criminal crime. I don't know, whatever crime injustice, maybe. I don't remember what it's called. 

[00:43:58] Ashley: Yeah. I mean, and you know, some of the classes were good information, but not like it's just not applicable to other aspects of your life. Right. And I started going for my master's degree and it was in like, it was law enforcement related and it was four people in law enforcement. And so it was like on the weekends, it was actually nice program, cuz they made it for working, you know, um, people in law enforcement, but I'm like, what the heck am I gonna do with that? Cuz this isn't what I wanna do forever. And I don't wanna like move up in administration. Like no, thank you. It's like, this is dumb. So I did one semester and quit cuz I was like, this is a waste of my time, money and energy for something I'm not gonna outside of this career. Like it's what else? 

[00:44:41] Michelle: It's good that you had that it's good that you had that insight that you knew you didn't wanna do that forever because dumb yeah.

[00:44:48] Ashley: Do something useful, like, or get a degree that's really useful unless that's what you wanna do because you know, police chiefs, now they have to have like master's degrees, like almost all of 'em, at least if it's a decent sized department, so, okay, sure. Do that. If that's what you wanna do. but if that's not what you wanna do, don't get that degree, like do something. Sorry. Okay. I'm done. I'm done. All right. All right. Was there anything else because we do need to wrap up and, uh, just wanna make sure there wasn't anything else that we haven't talked about that people need to know. 

[00:45:26] Michelle: I think that that's good. these strategic seek resources, ask for help. Talk to people, reach out for people.

[00:45:33] Ashley: Yes. Get help ask. Yes. Absolutely. Because you don't know what you don't know. And like nobody expects you to know all these things. Like why would you know them unless, 

[00:45:42] Michelle: and unfortunately often. But unfortunately often it's not like the structure, the institution isn't necessarily set up to make sure that you get all of that information, which is really unfortunate and very sad. I, yeah, I actually think all students should have like an academic counselor, like us. That's not, you know, necessarily just from your major, but just someone you can rely on to go to mm-hmm yeah. So find your person, find your mentor at the university or wherever and. Ask for help and be strategic. And don't get into a whole lot of debt, but know that having some debt is also strategic, right? If it allows you to get access to, you know, I have students that are like first generation just graduating right now. I had a student I had just met the other day. He has four offers on the table. 

[00:46:25] Ashley: Wow. 

[00:46:25] Michelle: For like $70,000 a year, his family together has never made $70,000 a year. And like, that is something that he's getting because of education. So it can be really useful and it can really change your life. And it doesn't have to be the only way, right. There are a lot of other ways that people choose to mm-hmm, figure out the future and make money and all of that, but it can be good. So don't be like, oh, education is not necessary or it's not helpful or whatever, cuz it could be, but you have to be strategic from it.

[00:46:53] Ashley: Yeah, exactly. And if you wanna hear more about Michelle's story, go check out episode number 63 and where can people maybe follow up with you if they have any questions or learn, uh, more about. 

[00:47:06] Michelle: I would say, probably find me on Instagram at intentional money life, uh, post on there. And you can always just send me a message. Even if you have kind of random university type questions, I'm, I'm interested in those two and you can actually find me at my university job too at, uh, michelle.onaka@oregonstate.edu. If you have more kind of like trio questions or, you know, more educational questions like that. So I have kind of the university job and then I have my intentional money life business. You can find me in either. 

[00:47:34] Ashley: Absolutely. And I'm sure that you will help anybody that asks because that's just how you are . So I've enjoyed, uh, you know, this conversation again, and maybe we'll have you back again in the future, cuz I'm sure there's even more we could talk about.

[00:47:49] Michelle: Sounds good. Thanks. 

[00:47:51] Ashley: I hope you found that information incredibly helpful as I did, even if you don't have kids getting ready to go to college, it's just helpful to know. So you can help others know what resources and support are out there for these. Students because there is, as I'm sure you're very well aware, a major crisis with student loans and just being able to afford college and just be more strategic with the classes that you take with how you want your future to look and all the things. You just gotta, you know, be a little bit more strategic with it. And Michelle shared some great tips. And as always, if you loved this episode or know somebody that could benefit from it, please share it and leave us a five star review. I do read all the reviews. So, you know, if you wanna send me a little note, I would love it. And I will talk to you guys next week.