Epi 72 - Brian Haney
===

[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Money Mindset Podcast, where you will find the inspiration and motivation you need to manage your money better so you can stress less and live the life you want. It's Ashley with Budgets Made Easy and the Money Mindset Podcast. Today I have guest Brian Haney, who is the founder of The Haney Company, which is a values based business who helps other people, you know, invest in companies that align with their values. Now he has been on the podcast before, uh, number 36, we talked about, you know, what insurance do you really need for your family? And today we're gonna talk about value based investing, also known as ESG.

[00:00:51] And so he will explain what that means, what it is. And you know, we also talk about if you're a business owner, you know how you can become more value based and show that to your, um, clients and to your employees and how to find other businesses that align with those values as well. So, you know, it turned into kind getting some of the background on his business because he is certified. He explains that he's won awards for this, uh, for his company. So it's not just a value statement on his website. He truly embodies, uh, his values and, uh, it shows in everything that he does and how he shows up with his clients and representing his own business as well. So if you are interested in in, you know, learning more about investing based on things that are important to you, you know, how you want to manage your money and where you wanna invest that money so that it can do the most good in the world, uh, based on what you think is important.

[00:01:58] Uh, please, you know, listen to this episode, if you love it, leave us a five star review. And, you know, if you think somebody else might benefit from this information as well, please share it so that we can spread this information around because it has been around for decades as he mentions in this episode, but not that many people have known about it. And now as the world is changing and we're just learning all this information about how certain businesses impact the world, you know, we're becoming more conscious of it and trying to be more mindful of how we are spending our money. So please share it with anybody that you think may benefit from this information as well.

[00:02:37] So, thank you so much, Brian, for being with us again. So you've previously been on the podcast. Woo. And, you know, I just love talking to you so much about investing and, you know, different things that really help, um, our families and, you know, leaving a legacy for our families kind of do in the more long term, uh, things once, you know, besides just talking about debt all the time, and today we're gonna talk about value based investing. Now, before we get into all the nitty gritty details, I can't even talk today. um, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself and why value based investing is important to you. 

[00:03:19] Brian: Sure. Um, since we don't have two hours, I'll give you the super short version of that, but, um, Just, uh, as a founder and CEO of The Haney Company, part of what, uh, our, our company does is, uh, we do help people that want to try to invest for any of the things that we all try to save money and invest for. And I think as a, as a company, as a, as a practice, uh, I, I said this, uh, a couple days ago, um, at an, at a, um, Pride Event in DC, I said, you. We're really proud to be a values driven firm, not a profit driven one. Um, and that's not cliche to us. It is really important that we express why we do what we do. We make it known.

[00:04:09] We do want anybody that might be considering working with a financial professional and be considering us as practitioners to be, be to be able to see that and understand that because it informs. How we, uh, work with you. Um, and so, uh, yeah, we, uh, you know, we have our, our values, uh, on our, on our website and one of the things that I'm very proud of, uh, to really cuz we do specialize, I think in this area in particular, one of the, the things that we did was we, uh, worked with, uh, green America to become a green America certified practice.

[00:04:49] Uh, and that is, uh, a fairly extensive, uh, project. They, they go in, they assess you to determine if you're eligible to even be in American certified, um, you know, not just what you do and the fact that you're aware of things like, uh, ESG or values investing or socially responsible, but that, you know, you, you kind of embody that in all of the ways that you run your company. Um, so that was a, that was a good process for us to go through a, just to make sure we were doing all the things that we wanted to try to do to be sustainable and conscious and stand for the things that we say we stand for. Um, but then to having, you know, to, to be, receive the certification after going through that exercise, uh, was very, very rewarding because again, you know how we do what we do and why we do what we do, I think are as important, uh, as what we do. So that's, uh, hopefully enough of a, of a short story about that. 

[00:05:45] Ashley: And it does show with what you, uh, how you present yourself and what you do with your business and your podcast and everything. It's not just some values, you know, typed on your webpage, right? Like, It really shows through how you, uh, manage everything, your business and, and you just recently got a, like an award too, right? Um, was it Pride Award? I believe if I'm remember. 

[00:06:08] Brian: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Um, wow. That was remarkable. Uh, really, really humbling. Uh, the Washington Business Journal. Uh, as the business of pride every year, and they really, uh, historically select between 10 and 12 people that, um, are, you know, uh, supporting the LGBTQ community, uh, and what they do professionally, uh, and also personally, and, and, you know, uh, philanthropically and all that. And so I was, uh, really fortunate to be one of the people that was recognized this year. Which again, you know, uh, I mean, certainly it's, it's wonderful to receive recognition, but it, it, it, to me was really not about that. It was, it was, it was more of a confirmation that we, as an entire team and as a company are just doing the things that we say we're doing, you know, it it's it's, you know, I, I think of the people that were in that room that frankly probably should have been on the stage instead of me. So, um, Just, it was, it was wonderful, uh, to, to have that moment, but really, you know, was just a reinforcement of all the things that, you know. Money historically, and I don't mean to go off on a tangent and I don't wanna waste too much of your audience's time with this, but money has historically probably been one of the biggest ways we've divided ourselves as people all throughout human history.

[00:07:32] It's it's it's we use it, to divide and not to build people up and to come together. Um, and so being in an industry that is on the front lines of dealing with that, to me, it's not just about helping you get insurance and save and all the other stuff that's frankly, that's that, that shouldn't even be part of the barrier entry. Anyone that is, is licensed to do the things that we do should be able to do that to me. It's also about how do we recognize that. Money shouldn't divide. It should empower to bring together. Um, and so, you know, I think that that's just, you know, what, what that type of an opportunity in a moment really, again, is about us telling that story more effectively.

[00:08:18] Ashley: Absolutely. And I love that. That is really the basis for everything that you do now, what is for somebody that is wanting to be more conscious of how their money is being invested? Because you know, a lot of times we just put it in a 401k or some other, you know, just fun, but we really don't know. The companies, or we don't know what they're doing with that investment, things like that.

[00:08:44] So can you kind of explain what value-based investing even is? 

[00:08:50] Brian: Yeah, no, absolutely. Uh, and, and I, and you're absolutely right. Ashley, there's definitely a lot of terms out there. Um, I think probably the one that is, is, uh, the one I would point people to really wrap their head around the most is this term ESG.

[00:09:08] Um, so that's environmental, social and governments. Uh, so the, there used to be term Sri, socially responsible investing. And some of those things are really, I think that they were not so much industry terms. ESG is the industry term that I think is, is one where you can go in and understand how, uh, it applies to a particular fund manager style or what have you.

[00:09:32] So, um, to environmental, let's just, let's unpack that real fast. How does a company approach, climate change, energy efficiency, pollution, how are they engaging in their, you know, profession industry? What have you to reduce their carbon footprint? And all of that social, uh, is very much, I think a lot of the things that you would expect it to be in terms of, uh, inclusivity, uh, de and I work, uh, but also, uh, you know, gender inequity pay inequity. Um, there's a lot that can, that can, you know, that isn't as unfortunately transparent about that even, uh, frankly in a big area, uh, you know, how do you, how do you take care of, of, you know, like family medical leave and, you know, all of the various ways that even that word family mm-hmm is, is defined. It's not just this kind of, uh, you know, historical societal, norm of husband, wife, kids, it's, you know, so being able to really see that, uh, and examine that, and then governance. You know, how does, uh, an organization practice its lobbying its uh, public contributions. And I think, uh, some might also say, uh, board diversity as well. Although I don't know that that's as easy sometimes to examine. Um, but those three elements are, are what are now being assessed in addition to, or in included. You know, profitability and all of the business metrics that you would use to assess, you know, how is this company worthwhile from an investment standpoint? 

[00:11:11] Ashley: So is ESG like, is it a fund or it's just something, a label that you're looking for with a certain company? 

[00:11:21] Brian: Yeah, I think it it's, it's, it's a label that's helping to define. How, uh, a particular investment, let's say a fund or, or, or an ETF exchange traded instrument. Um, if that's part of either the title or if you're trying to filter and find a particular, you know, investments that fit a certain category, that's the one that you wanna be using because, oh, okay. Again, it's it's um, It's probably the best, uh, terminology that, that the market's applying to these types of investments.

[00:11:55] And so I wanna, you know, I wanna help try to reduce that confusion or apply something that that'll give us a good filter for consideration. And that's the filter to use to start to find, you know, options for, uh, you know, values type of alignment. It is, it is true. You know, one of the biggest ways we vote is with our wallets, not what we do down on Capitol hill and all the other stuff. Right? So exactly this is something that, you know, whether or not you decide tomorrow that you want absolutely everything that's important to you to be reflected in the things that you invest in, or not at least having a vision and a conscience about recognizing that there can be a link and that you can have an impact. Just by looking at your money and how you allocate it and what you implicitly or explicitly support in doing so. 

[00:12:49] Ashley: Now for the label of ESG, how does a company get that label? Is there like any kind of checks? Like how, or is this like, self-reported like, who says that it's an ESG? 

[00:13:04] Brian: So I would say, I would say ESG is a criteria. Um, so it wouldn't, you know, a business, an entity apple, if you will. Right. And again, that's not, not a plug for them, but just so we can pick on something, uh, for the conversation, you know, they, they would be assessed by people in the investment industry fund managers. What have you, uh, based off of those three criteria elements. So if I, if, if, let's say for example, there's a, a fund that's just a, you know, a large cap growth. So it, that's what its style is. That's what the managers paid to do. What have you doesn't matter who runs it? They don't take anything into account. As it relates to ESG. They're just really trying to be a large cap growth front and perform based off of those underlying that underlying kind of Morningstar criteria, a fund that could be in the large cap growth space, but that's has an ESG criteria with it is telling you that it distinguishes itself. It might be investing in the same part of the. Of, you know, the investment space, but it's manager or applying this type of criteria. So they are selecting those, you know, an apple or a GM or whatever based off of do they have good measurements in these areas or not? 

[00:14:23] Ashley: Now, how would somebody go about, um, finding some, an advisor or, you know, somebody to help them invest in these companies so that they can feel like they're making a difference based on their values?

[00:14:37] Brian: Yeah, I, I, that's such a good question. I, I think, um, so certainly green America is one place. I would suggest you go as an organization, green america.org. Um, that they cover, not just the financial space, they cover all, uh, industry types. So that's a great place to start, but there are other, I think organizations like that, um, that have either whether it's through a membership or through some sort of a, you know, a, a ratings application or a certification that tell you, Hey, you know, we've taken a look at, at certain practitioners or certain companies, certain businesses and assess them based off of these types.

[00:15:17] You know, things that we're talking about. Um, however, you know, I don't know that there's just that many, certainly in the financial arena that are pursuing those types of certifications. And unfortunately there's not really, there's not a, uh, an ESG certification that I'm yet aware of today that an advisor could have like some of the credentials that I have certified fund special. I don't know that we have that designation yet. So hopefully, maybe that's. Um, yeah, but I think if, if you're, you know, while it, it it's great that, uh, we have the green America certification. I wouldn't want you to not work with an advisor because they don't have it. I think it's just a conversation if you're interviewing somebody or if you're working with somebody currently ask, ask the professional, you know, just kind of where they are open ended, you know, what, what are your thoughts on. You know, values based investing socially responsible investing. Is this something that they do? Is this something that they have access to, that they know a lot about? Um, and you know, depending on how that, that kind of interaction plays out then that, you know, if that can determine what you think, you know, if you, if you still think is a good fit to work with that professional or not.

[00:16:31] I, you know, I still think you want to work with a financial professional, really excellent at what they do, because that. You know why you would, that's why you would work with them to begin with, um, totally but it is, you know, that, that's just, I think part of the conversation that you can start to introduce, uh, cuz it can be helpful and some will be more engaged and, and more understanding and have more expertise than maybe others do. And yeah, if that's really important to you, then that's, that's part of the way that I would go about that. 

[00:16:58] Ashley: Now wouldn't about them now when it comes to just our overall investing strategy, is it important or, you know, to have kind of like a mix, still have a mix of different companies, you know, maybe some are ESG, but not necessarily like, are we wanting to like, have everything focused on an ESG that we align with? Or should there still just kind of be a combination? 

[00:17:23] Brian: I think this is so like everything with investing in money, it should be a very personal journey. Um, and I think that this is probably where I would put out my first cautionary tale for anybody that's listening. Is that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Um, and so, you know, I, I, I think sometimes there's, uh, presumptive social pressure, you know that because we can do all this and I'm, you know, I, I believe all these things are important to me. I therefore, it's an, if a, then B I have to do this, or I have to invest this. Um, I'm not suggesting you don't ultimately get to that conclusion, but I would say, um, take it, take it slow, uh, and measurable.

[00:18:08] And also the thing that's probably the most important part is to really define what that looks like for you. Um, because then I'll give you example of what I'm talking about. There are a lot of different types of investment categories that fall under this broad brush umbrella. Of E SG. Um, and so like for example, we have a managed portfolio that's built for Christian scientists. Literally they have a defined, uh, uh, management style and architecture that fits that particular, uh, religious belief. Um, so you could, you can, I mean, you can get really strategic, but I think it's, you know, You want to go through a pretty systematic process to, to kind of define these things, because there are things that might be more important than others.

[00:19:04] Maybe you're very green conscious. So maybe, you know, carbon, uh, you know, sustainability, reducing carbon equipment, that kind of stuff. Maybe that's the thing that you're really the most passionate about. And so maybe starting to introduce things like that or applying a, a filter. On investing, there might be a good way to do it rather than saying everything has to fit under the umbrella. I think it's just, it's important to a, you gotta define what that really looks like for you and know that it doesn't have to look the same for everybody else. And then start, you know, take, take, take it like we, we were talking not too long ago. Right? How do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? Take it one small step, uh, before you feel like you gotta jump all the way.

[00:19:51] Ashley: Absolutely. Now, if somebody is maybe not quite ready to, you know, invest thousands and thousands of dollars, but they do wanna kind of make an impact and they want to maybe invest some money in something, um, in an ESG. Is that something that they can do on their own, like, you know, through Vanguard or for Dell, you know, one of those just online, uh, accounts, or is this something that you really should get an advisor to kind of help you with?

[00:20:20] Brian: I, I think that, so the it's a both and answer. Um, and, and I think I wanna start with the real good news is that the investing arena has come extremely far. Now I wanna pause and make the point that socially responsible or values based types of investments. They're not new. They've been around for decades.

[00:20:44] Um, they've really, I think just, it, it. This isn't something that you think that, oh my gosh, they just created these, you know, funds yesterday. No. Um, a lot of these have been around for, for a long time. So that's the, the good news is that, that, that a, there's a track record in B. There's a lot of ways that somebody can individually go out and whether it's a mutual fund, whether it's an exchange traded fund, there's a lot of vehicles to find and a lot of fun companies that do this.

[00:21:12] Um, so that's the good news. I, I do think. You know that question of how much professional help you think you might want is also it's, it's a pretty personal one. Um, you know, if you are the type of person that is a big time DIYer, then, you know, I certainly encourage you to, to, to take advantage of that. Uh, because there's, there's a lot of, again, resources within Morningstar ways to search and find funds that you can select from, or, you know, investment types that you can use ETFs, all of that kind of stuff. But if you're really serious a about, um, you know, long term strategy and just kind of having somebody comprehensively walking you through this, then certainly I think you wanna, you wanna consider working with a professional and find one that fits what you're looking for. Um, cuz there's obviously a lot of ways that, you know, you can align with an advisor or, you know, financial planner or whatever term and, and practitioner style that you think is gonna be a fit.

[00:22:10] Ashley: Absolutely. Now I do wanna touch on, I mean, it's not exactly related to our conversation, but you know, if somebody is, um, has a business like yours and wants to be more value based focused, you know, kind of based on, you know, some of the stuff that you have done, what would you recommend that they kind of start doing? Is there anything that they can kind of focus on or, you know, maybe podcasts or anything that you would recommend to kind of get started on? 

[00:22:40] Brian: Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll have to think of some of the podcasts. There's, there's certainly some sustainable, uh, podcast shows a variety of them out there. Um, again, I'll go back and, and REPL the green America process.

[00:22:54] Um, frankly, the questionnaire itself that they put us through was probably one of the best resources. Um, because it was really comprehensive. I mean, it asked questions about everything from, you know, do we recycle, how do we handle, uh, you know, laptops and, and technology waste and all, I mean, it was, it was very granular. Um, and so I think if, if, you know, if we, if we set aside, you know, the whole investing part, but just how do I have a sustainable lifestyle? How do I have a sustainable business? Um, yeah, I think having some kind of a, a, a criteria to work through just to see yourself the right way is the first step to take and also to educate yourself, uh, on all of the ways that you can make improvements.

[00:23:43] Um, because there's a lot of small things that I think we can all do. I mean, things like, you know, as simple as having the right kind of lighting just to reduce, you know, I mean, there's, there's so many kind of little things that they all add. Um, you know, how we, how we handle food, do you compost things like that. Um, and it, it just kind of, I think depends where you are, where you're trying to go. Um, what is your footprint, you know, what type of business do you have and what would be the things that, uh, would really have an impact? What are things that you can change today versus things that maybe you wanna plan for tomorrow?

[00:24:23] Um, In, in, for example, I, if you're running a business who are the vendors that you work with, have you ever thought about looking at them and seeing, are they practicing in a manner that's similar to yours? If that's really important to you? Uh, so vendor relationships can be another thing. So there's, there, there are a lot of ways, um, to assess that. And I think the best thing is to, is to find out where you're starting from and start to look at what are the things that you're gonna wanna. Tackle the most. And, and are there deficiencies that are glaring that you can, you know, make changes in? 

[00:24:58] Ashley: That's a great point now, you know, I'm learning along with everybody else about ESG. So is there anything that you want people to know that I probably haven't asked you? So I'll just kind give you the floor, if there's anything else that we haven't mentioned that you want people to know? 

[00:25:15] Brian: I, I think I really want people to know that there is a wide, wide world out there available to them from, you know, like I mentioned, you can be as strategic as you feel you want to be, um, or as broad as you want to be from, you know, it could be faith based. It could be, you know, carbon there's, there's just a lot of options. So, so that should give you the encouragement to know that if this is something that you're going to, you know, if this is a journey you wanna walk, definitely start to walk. Don't feel like you're doing things wrong. Um, I've found a lot of times when people engage in this area, um, we, we, we let some of those positive kind of social emotions.

[00:26:05] Like we're all supposed to be doing things a certain way. And so there's almost this air of negativity that people take when they approach with it. And you know, I'm not suggesting we can't be passionate, but it's hard. Because you're, you, you at times kind of lean into that. So I would just, you know, start with a healthy, positive attitude.

[00:26:24] And, you know, we, we talked about a little bit ago, have a vision, have a vision for your life and the type of person that you are. Center yourself you know, what are the values that are really important to you? Um, and maybe. Yeah. Do you find, uh, certainly there's plenty of resources, so many great resources from podcasts to videos, to just materials across the investing world. Um, and maybe approaching again, professionals that understand this and are willing to help you kind of then carry that forward, but, but be practical about it, uh, and take your time because you know, aligning your life with your values is a journey and it's frankly, a lifetimes journey. Um, and you don't have to see everything in your world transformed overnight to feel like you're succeeding. So, you know, just, just commit to the journey and being willing to start to take those steps and know that there are, especially when we bring it back to, you know, the financial arena. There's so many ways that you can make an impact with your money from banking relationships, to investments, to all, all kinds of things. Um, it really can be something that you can achieve and feel really, really good about. 

[00:27:39] Ashley: Yeah. And, you know, I just thought about something that you mentioned earlier about, um, checking with, you know, the vendors and kind of, uh, for if you wanna kind of be more intentional with, you know, who you're supporting that type of thing, how do you in your business kinda have those conversations? Like what kind of questions do you even. Another business that you're gonna do business with to see if your values align. 

[00:28:05] Brian: Yeah. So I, I, I just kind of, I'll say the, the biggest thing that we do is before we consider someone, we do a little more, more homework. So we're a little bit intentional upfront. Um, I'll also say this, you may not always be successful. So don't have the assumption that every single relationship that you have. Can align from a value centered standpoint, cuz I, as, as much as I'd love to say, everybody's wholesale embracing this across the country and across all industries, it's not. So, you know, don't set yourself up to be frustrated. Um, but do a little, I mean, look, there, there is so much good public information out there.

[00:28:46] Check people's websites, but start to check for things that aren't, you know, this is why we're great and all the great things that we do. Like look, look under the hood a little bit, um, to see how, you know, a company's built. think about some of the big practices, uh, where do you buy your food from and what types of food do you buy? Unfortunately, you know, uh, you know, farm to table types or buying local and, and going to farmer's markets. And that all thing, not all of that is a easy and accessible to do. And B it's not all super affordable sometimes, but maybe that's part of the conversation you have with yourself is that, you know, because this is important to me, I'm gonna have to change.

[00:29:25] In certain areas and maybe, you know, I hate the fact that sometimes to, to feel like you're being organic and sustainable with food purchasing, that it cost you more. I wish it wasn't the case, but you know, there's a lot of ways that, that you can be thoughtful about that. And so, um, I think that that's just kind of, you know, take that journey and, and. You know, if there is somebody that you're, you're not sure about start to ask questions, you know, don't just have everything be about a pure business, transactional conversation, ask them questions about, you know, well, why do you do what you do? What are the values that you, that you stand for? And all the other stuff. I think a lot of, a lot more businesses today and general are starting to make some of that more apparent. And again, whether or not it's just a statement on a website, but at least, Hey, that's a start. If they have a statement on a website, that's a, that's a good first step. Yeah. 

[00:30:16] Ashley: That's true. So I'm curious if you don't mind sharing, of course. Uh, what are some of, um, your most important values, uh, either with yourself or with your company and how does that look for you over maybe like the next 10 years? Kind of like, what things are you focusing on that are value based for you? 

[00:30:36] Brian: Yeah. So, um, it's, it's, it's a great question. And I, uh, I'll actually, I will read our values statement on our website to answer it, but I, and I'll talk about how this applies, um, to our, our, I mean, our, our core values, our family equity education, social justice, and green living, and to, to make those real personal family for me. and for our team is always first, but I think I mentioned it earlier. I mean, family, um, that word looks very different and for us, it, we don't, we don't define it other than to say, whatever family is to you. We wanna support that. And so we're very intentional, uh, about finding ways to support families of all kinds.

[00:31:30] Um, Fostering. Uh, yeah, I mean, just, you know, is interracial that doesn't, it doesn't matter how you come together and how you define family. If family's something that's important to you, we're gonna find a way as practitioners to, to encourage that. And I think for us, the theme is always, you know, uh, we don't live to work. We work to live, right. So we're all about caring for. . And so who are the people in your world that you care for? That if you're gonna work with us, we should be aware of that. That's why you do what you do and who you are. Uh, and that's what we carry for equity. Um, it's kind of the extension of diversity, uh, and inclusion.

[00:32:12] And I actually take it a step further for us. I think equity is about belonging. How do we not just know that we all, so diversity is a. Like that's, that's the way the world is. So if, if, if you're stuck on that, I can't help you with the rest of it. , um, inclusion's intentional equity is, is value valuing people for who they are, not just for what they can do and all that, but belonging, you know, that's, that's a big change, you know, how does, how does somebody show up and say, yeah, uh, I can breathe the sigh of relief, cuz I feel like I belong here. Um, So we we're, we're intentional about that. You know, I think some of the others just education is a big component to what we try to do. It's part of the reason why I try to be on shows, why I have my own, just wanna put enough out there to help people, not everybody's gonna work with us. Not everybody should work with us. I know I'm not gonna, you know, be the advisor to the world. That's not our goal. But part of the reason why we do try to, uh, you know, do as much as we can to help people is. We want people to help themselves and to have information and education. So if that's part of like a legacy for us and then, you know, just social justice and green living, I mean, frankly to me, those are just, I don't know.

[00:33:26] I mean, we talked about money and how it's been probably one of the biggest ways we've created inequity and been unjust. So, I mean, I, I don't know what it looks like to, to, to fall on my sword and die, trying to change that, but I'm gonna find out we're gonna find out. Because that's really important to us. And then we only have one planet. I don't know if any of us have had a storm in their area or a heat wave or a scene. I mean, let's just be honest, uh, humans, aren't doing all of the things we probably should to take care of this planet. And, you know, again, I think that that's just something that should be very practical. We should all, hopefully have some kind of a level of conscience about it. , you know, those are, those are the things that, that drive us and that are always in the forefront of our mind when it comes to how do we do what we do. Um, and it's great when there's a lot of people that connect with those same passions. Um, but you don't have to, you know, it's okay. We'll still be really good professionals. It is, it is it's good for people to understand what drives us and motivates us. 

[00:34:35] Ashley: Absolutely. And, you know, thank you for all that you're doing and, uh, you know, making this, your mission in life, um, along with, you know, helping other people kind of find their passions as well. So where can people find more about you or maybe connect with you if they wanna learn more about this? 

[00:34:55] Brian: Well, let's definitely check out our, our company web, uh, website. It's thehaneycompany.com so, uh, that's T H E H a N E I company all spelled out .com. Uh, I'm uh, all over, uh, LinkedIn. So you sh can certainly come find me on LinkedIn. And I have a show that ay company, financial guide podcast. So you can certainly take a listen to some of those episodes as well. Um, but yeah, you know, we, uh, we do try to be out there and, and are, are definitely love hearing from people and answering questions and just helping any way that we can. Cause, uh, you know, all of us having money empower us to live our best lives. That's the goal. Yes. And so if we can be a, a small part of your journey. We'd love to do it. 

[00:35:41] Ashley: Oh, thank you so much. That was great. Oh, I almost forgot to ask you about your favorite non-fiction book. And I don't know if you have any to recommend maybe on this topic, but, um, if you have any book recommendations to share. 

[00:35:54] Brian: So, um, I, I do have a lot of book recommendations that are not fiction. I'm gonna just bring up one and it's, it's kind of outta left field, but it's, it's one that, um, is awesome. So, uh, the author's name is Dan Pink. So one of the best author names, I mean, how can you not forget that name? Dan Pink. Awesome. He wrote a book called when so W H E N. It is fascinating, cuz he explores the concept of your chrono type. So it, it, it, he creates the framework for how do you optimize yourself based off of timing and Chron, your chrono type. Are you an early bird? Are you a middle bird? Are you a late bird? Recognizing that we all have a natural bio rhythm when we are gonna have peak performance troughs. And, and when we are connected to that and then build a life that allows us to optimize those things. So we're doing the things we need to do in our peak performance cycle, how it makes such a huge difference. It is a fascinating book. I could not put it down. I've recommended it all the time. It's. Uh, you know, nobody's ever said, oh, that was terrible. It's, it's an incredible book. There are some scary examples by the way, and that book would be prepared, but he'll tell you when not to go to the doctor when not to go to court and the metadata behind that is shocking. Hmm, but, uh, yeah, no, you, you, you pick it up and I, I promise you, it it'll be hard to put down, so. 

[00:37:30] Ashley: I'm gonna have to check that out. I feel like I've spoken with somebody kind of about the, that concept, but I don't remember, uh, that specific book. So I'm gonna have to add that to the list. Well, thank you so much for being with us and, you know, teaching us about values based investing and ESGs and all the things.

[00:37:49] Brian: You are very welcome love being on this show. Love all the work that you do. So thank you for doing the work that you're doing.. I really appreciate it. 

[00:37:57] Ashley: Thanks. 

[00:37:58] I know I am now ready to, you know, be more conscious in my investments and really start diving into this topic because you know, I didn't know much about this either before this recording. So I was learning right along with you. Now, keep in mind before you wanna start, you know, really investing, you know, besides like your 401k and those types of things. But once you're like really ready to like put some extra money into investing, I would encourage you to pay off, especially your high interest first. So if you are ready to get started with paying off your debt so that you can start investing in companies that match your values, uh, go get your Free Debt Starter Kit at budgetsmadeeasy.com/debt. And I will talk to you guys next week.