Hello Heidi. Welcome to the leap takers podcast. And thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Heidi Lindvall: [00:01:46] Thank you for inviting me.
Remo Kyburz: [00:01:48] Yeah. Great you could make the time. And I would like to start first with, if you could just briefly introduce yourself to the audience and tell them about yourself and what you're currently working on?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:01:58] Sure. my name is Heidi Lindvall. I am currently a general partner at Pale Blue Dot, which is a climate tech fund based in Southern Sweden. So I've been doing this for the past few months. And before that I was been running an accelerator, I've been an entrepreneur myself, and I'm a documentary filmmaker if we go back far enough.
so yeah, that's what I'm doing right now.
Remo Kyburz: [00:02:21] That sounds like a very interesting career so far. And I would like to start already with Pale Blue Dot, with the VC that you started. And could you just describe to the audience or maybe someone who's not that familiar with the VC world in general, what is Pale Blue Dot and what are you trying to achieve with the fund?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:02:40] Sure, so Pale Blue is a climate based VC fund and it's a 53 million fund that we've raised from professional investors and institutional investors in order to invest in startups within the climate tech sector.  And at the moment 53 million that we raised so far, and we're aiming to raise, or to finish at around 80 million at the end of the year. We invest in pre-seed and seed stage startups around Europe and we can do investments in the US as well.  I would see ourselves as a pretty conventional VC , in how we operate and, and what kind of profits we need to see, et cetera. But we invest in startups that do something positive for the climate.
Now it's pretty, pretty vague in the sense that, We, you know, kind of do more of a back of the napkin calculation in terms of looking at what the impact is on climate. But we do need to see that this is going to be a  future positive company, essentially at that time of investment. And, there's three partners of us, myself, Hampus, and Joel that started it together.
And we started planning it about a year ago. And then , we fundraised, within about six months we were able to  close our first target. , And yeah, we've been running since, June, this year, we've made three investments that we've announced and we have three more investments that we are making in this  month. so it's been really busy for three months for us, for sure.
 Remo Kyburz: [00:04:03] Yeah, that sounds great. And I really love the thesis and the climate focus that you have with Pale Blue Dot. And, , I would happily a bit later in this conversation go a bit more into depth regarding Pale Blue Dot. Before we get there, I was very curious to learn more about your personal background as well and how you  got started or got into the whole startup and VC space in the first place.
 yeah. Was there any, anything that, you know, caught your interest when you were younger? Or how did you first get in touch with the world of startup?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:04:34] So, , I'm originally from Finland, first of all, although I've lived abroad most of my life. So I've been in London for 12 years and in the US for  a few years, Berlin for a while. And then now in Sweden for , two and a half years, And I think I've always been pretty entrepreneurial, but I didn't really, really consider business or, this kind of Avenue being, something that I wanted to do.
I kind of did a lot of other things when I was younger. But, originally what happened is that I studied film and TV to start with. And I then started a documentary film company together with , my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband and, , we didn't really want to work in the industry. So we thought, you know, , let's see what we can do ourselves and just travel around the world and, make documentaries. And we started traveling and we started making documentaries of  social and global issues. which was amazing. And  I would  recommend that to anyone. Just gotta start doing your own thing as early as possible, just to figure out also what you want to do and what you're more interested in.
So we did that, just traveling to from war zones in Sri Lanka, we did a documentary on formerly abducted child soldiers in Uganda, press freedom in Guatemala. And, we did that for a while. And then, Yeah, actually kind of came from that. We then started feeling that our documentaries weren't really having the kind of impact that we wanted. Especially, you know, being a small company ourselves, not really collaborating with any big studios, we weren't really able to get that the mouth, in any meaningful way. And then we started thinking that, that. What if that's the medium, that's the problem? What if video could be better? And what if, what if we could get people to interact with the medium in a better way?
So we started to, think about what could be done with technology to make the medium better. And that's really  where it started. Then we started looking for alternatives. And we started looking for technologies that existed in the media space to  tell stories in better ways.
And after trying every single solution that we found, we just found that there wasn't anything good enough on the market. And that's when we decided that we were going to do it ourselves. So we're going to start to build. something that we would use ourselves. So, and this was back in 2012. So there was after doing a documentary film company full time for about three years.
 and yeah, that was the original source. And then  that's when we started at what's, later became Storygami, which was an interactive video tool that allowed you, it was a SaaS platform that allowed you to drag and drop essentially interactive elements on top of your videos. but this was a very kind of classic story of we found a problem and no one else was solving it. So we solved it ourselves. , and that's what kinda got me into the tech scene and really got me introduced to this space.
  Remo Kyburz: [00:07:16] Wow. Very interesting. I was not so aware that you actually, like directed, these documentaries. Is there any way for people to check them out? Are they still available somewhere?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:07:25] Yeah, there are actually two of the documentaries that are on Vimeo. I think you can, I don't remember the address. No by heart. But I think if you just look at Codoc, which was documentary film company, C O D O C ,a Codoc films, I think they're under. and, yeah, otherwise you can ask me on Twitter or somewhere, and then I can send a link, but two of them are live somewhere still and I think  all of the shorter ones have been taken down by now. Not sure, actually, I haven't looked for it.
Remo Kyburz: [00:07:54] Well, I really liked that background story and how you through the passion for, documentaries and filmmaking, you got into the startup space. And how did you approach this? let's say more tech angle , of what you did then at Storygami?  What was your role or how did you really  get started there, to build this SaaS solution?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:08:14] So we started by, first of all, by trying to, you know, talk to people who were software developers and try to figure out like, how could this actually be built and trying to understand programs. And  my partner, he, started learning to code so that he could do some stuff himself. I did some. Short courses in JavaScript then after a while gave up. Cause it was too hard for me. , but it was really trying to surround ourselves with people who knew more about the technologies that we could use in order to do this and how this could actually be built. , And , we then , started talking to customers pretty early in order to try to figure out what they would pay for.
And then we actually ended up just doing a few pilot projects. So before we had even officially set up a company, we did some pilot projects with,  Virgin media. Then we did some pilot projects with the Al Jazeera as well. So we did like an interactive documentary that was very much kind of one offs, but we made them in order to learn, and in order to try to figure out, you know, whether this is it's worth making a full tool in order to make these kinds of interactive documentaries. And  I think it was really good to start selling your products , before you really have it. It's just in order to find out whether people are willing to pay for it and how much value it gives.
And at this time we didn't really know. How they would use it and we didn't really know what would work and what wouldn't. but we made sure to measure everything. so we said yes to pretty much everything they wanted us to build, but then we also measured everything. And then, you know, when we did a next project, we were able to say, Oh, they also wanted this.
However, we know why it doesn't work now. So, that, that was kind of a really good way of getting started. and yeah, then we did that for a few years and then when we started getting enough traction, right. And some, revenue,  then we got our first investment, our first angel investors.
And, and then we, we started building the SaaS platform and then we eventually went to 500 startups in mountain view. So we went over to the US and to continue building the companies. And that's when he kind of , started becoming a little bit more real in some way, because we were able to employ more people and we were able to talk to bigger customers and really, test the concepts  on a larger scale.
Remo Kyburz: [00:10:20] And what time would you consider the best time for a startup to think about raising outside money? Like from angel investors or from Seed VCs? So you mentioned you did it. This after a few years, once you've got first revenues, do you think that was the right decision or what would you say today? being an investor yourself. When is the right moment for companies to start looking for investors?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:10:44] Yeah, I actually, I think we did it exactly at the right time. , I think you need to have proved something yourself. And I think the way we bootstrapped for a while, and we kind of, you know, we kept , our other jobs, which was our documentary film company at the time. So we were kind of doing both at the same time for a while, and we really wanted to see if this concept was worth pursuing before we jumped into that full time.
And I think if you're able to do that, then I think it's a really good idea to do that. And I wouldn't really raise money before you've found that, that there is a problem and that there are people are willing to pay for something. Of course, there probably be many pivots still, and they'll probably be many different iterations of the product, but just knowing that there is a space for something here and there are some interests. I think that's a good time to raise money.
Remo Kyburz: [00:11:33] Yeah, I fully agree. And I think that's great advice. Now, after Storygami, what was your next step?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:11:40] Sure. So we then, after this, we're now in about 2015 that we were in the U S we did that for,, only about a year and a half after that, actually. So, you know, we raised some money, we got some good clients in, but finally realized, Oh, we actually finally started, started to pivot and started to build a different platform, but weren't really able to raise, you know, enough money to, make that work.
, And for multiple reasons, just weren't,  able to get that off the ground.  I actually came, off of that whole experience, not really knowing what I wanted to do or what I could do. I think a lot of people who have built their own company, afterwards don't really know what they're good at because I was a CEO of the company and I did a bit of everything.
I mean, we were. You know, at most  six, seven people. So I did a little bit of marketing and then a lot of sales and a lot of fundraising, but you know, you do HR and you do all of the admin stuff and hit accounting, the legals that you do a bit of everything, but then you're also not an expert at anything. So I was trying to figure out what could I actually do? What value could actually bring to anyone? Cause I didn't really feel like any, you know, kind of conventional roll tiles kind of fitted in with me. But I then thought that maybe I have learned enough that I can help others, build companies.
So that's essentially what I did. I went to work for on the open data Institute as a startup program manager for a  new startup, program called data pitch that they were setting up at the time. And that was a really good step for me. Cause I got to pick companies for a startup program and that we would invest a hundred thousand euros equity free in. And also helped build a  kind of an accelerator program for them to scale. So that's what I went on to do. And then after that, I felt I wanted to continue on that, but more, even more so in the startup scene. So I ended up moving to Sweden where I joined Fast Track Malmo, which was at the time run by Joel who's who's now my partner, a pale blue dot as well, and to build at Fast Track Malmo an accelerator and then later also a microfund. So that's what I was doing for the past. well, almost three years now, since I came to Sweden.
Remo Kyburz: [00:13:49] I think it's a very interesting background. And it also shows ,  a good track, how you, move from being an operator, and startup founder  into the VC and the investor space. And I think we've starting at an accelerator. It was probably a good choice to, to learn about it and help startups as well. And I really liked that path. 
Now. talking about pale blue dot and,  it's the main topic of this conversation. So how did you come up with the idea to start a climate tech focused VC funds? How did you get together and how was the idea born?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:14:20] So,  before I'm going to go back in time a little bit and give a little bit more context. So when I was talking about before, but essentially when I started doing documentaries on social global issues, I, first a thought that I wanted to work in the, in the charity sector, but I saw a lot of problems on the ground that I felt like weren't really solved so well by the charities that were there. And that's often because they were the com people there became so dependent on these charities and them providing for them that I thought that there must be better models of solving some of these problems that I'm seeing on the ground.
And I then realized when we started Storygami, that technology was a really powerful tool that we had that we could use to solve some of the biggest problems that we facing.  And that's when I  got really intrigued by that. And around that time, actually, just before we started S I did my masters in human rights and I really started looking at how can we use technology to solve human problems essentially.
And even thoughStorygami and, you know, really wasn't, I mean, it was, it was about educating people in certain problems and it's about kind of getting people to take action. It wasn't a very impact driven startup, but I started looking at more of that. How could you,  merge impacts and profits in a really good way?
And I really wanted to see more people who were looking at, tech startups from an impact perspective come into the space. So that's  the trajectory I think, continued on, both our data pitch as well as at Fast Track Malmo. , and by that time, I kind of knew that I wanted to go into investment because I felt like if. I I've always been a pretty intuitive person and I felt like I could probably help pick these people and these projects that can actually make a big difference. So I knew already when I came to Sweden that I would probably want to join a fund or start something with an investment after that. And I, and I spoke to Joel, my, colleague at Fast Track Malmo about that multiple times.
And so every, since I came to Sweden, we kind of have those conversations every now and then, and then Hampus the third partner. We used to have lunches every three weeks just discussing what's happening in the Malmo startup seed and what could be improved and so on. and then we have had a fourth friend who was also kind of part of those discussions early on.
So, so there was. Also doing something together, I felt was pretty natural and within investment. And we had a lot of discussions about what's needed, but nothing really ever kind of materialized out of those conversations before. about just over a year ago now. I think it was an and kind of April may, that one of our who's now our anchor investors actually, who had invested into microfund that we were running previously, they said that they were looking to invest in a fund in Malmo.
And that's where we started saying that is this it's this our opportunity to set up a fund here that, that should we really started looking into it. And then we had a lot of conversations about, okay, What it should be about. I knew he wanted to do something with an impact, but I also didn't really necessarily want to set up a more generic impact fund , and, you know, Hampusus, was at another VC at the time.
And he was trying to figure out what his next move was as well. And then Joel, who had been at Fast Track Malmo for the past few years and doing micro funds was also trying to figure out what he should kind of spend the next 10 years on. . And we discussed a lot of different alternatives, but I think it was Hampus that originally brought up climate and he was doing an event on climate at the time.
And he had really spent a lot of time just deep diving into the topic and talking to a lot of experts in the area. And, and he was pitching this to us and yeah. And then we started reading a little bit more about it and started thinking about climate, a specific kind of investment. sector. And I think I, then realized that. You know, I think it was when I was reading the IPCC report, the 2018 report, where they said that we have 12 years to reverse the trajectory of where we going, with, you know, and, and stay under 1.5 degree warming. I kind of realized that this is so urgent. And if you're going to set up a fund, which is a 10 year investment fund, this is probably the most important thing we could focus on. And since I  realized that I just couldn't shake that anymore. There was nothing else that even came close. And I feel like we all went through that journey and we all came to the same conclusion that this is the most urgent thing we could you know, spend the next 10 years on and if we don't solve this and nothing else is going to be worth, there's not gonna be anything else to say or solve anyway. So, then  it did feel like this is the only thing we can do. And then after that, I feel like everything was pretty easy just to figure out what the fund was going to be like and  what we wanted to do. We were pretty aligned on everything else that  once we realized that he was going to be around climate.
Remo Kyburz: [00:19:15] Yeah, I really liked the story of how everything came together. And I agree with you. It's definitely very urgent.  There was a nice illustration that I saw a few weeks ago on LinkedIn. I think that illustrated how fast we need to act to partially reverse still some of the effect or like what impact it has on the degree degrees of, how much warmer it will get. And it is really urgent for sure. So I really love what you're doing .
How do you define ClimateTech in general for Pale Blue Dot? What are the areas you would invest in with the VC?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:19:50] So it's a really great question and it's something that we constantly are asking ourselves as well. but at the moment, I would say that we are like a generic VC in the sense that we look for what we call VC fundable companies, companies, where we can see, you know, a big enough exit. We can see a hundred million ARR.
And we see kind of that potential scale and market, and we see a really strong team entrepreneurial who can kind of scale this, et cetera. So all the same things a normal VC would, would, would look at, but with some kind of positive climate impact, that's I think the easiest way of explaining that, because I feel like a lot of people try to put us in the Cleantech or green tech categories. But we can't necessarily, , even if we want to, we can't necessarily invest in companies that are really high CapEx companies, for example, or, you know, some huge hardware where we don't see them going to markets in the next 10 years because our fund is a 10 year fund and we need to see our exits within that time span.
So, this is why, you know, I would definitely see ourselves more as a generic VC, than a clean tech fund. And we're focusing on software. , but saying that there's still, you know, it's still pretty wide mandate. We can invest in anything, food, agriculture. we can invest in supply chain logistics, looking at a lot of carbon accounting right now.
A lot of different B2B SaaS products, some consumer apps, it's I'm thinking, what else are we currently looking at? Mobility, future cities. so we essentially,  we, have three categories we say reverse, reduce and prepare for a future. 
So anything that we can see reducing the impact of climate change. Reversing the impact actually sequestering, carbon, et cetera, and then preparing for a new world. And that's really can be anything that we see, you know, we say water levels are going to rise. What is that going to, mean for people? How do we have to build our cities for the future in order to prepare for that?
For example? So it's, it's pretty wide.  and I, I don't think I know of all the areas we will invest. And I feel like this is what the startups are educating us on. When they come with amazing pitches of things, I had never even considered being enormous issues. So I'm very excited to just get to learn about this space more and more all the time.
Remo Kyburz: [00:22:06] Yeah. that's one of the great parts about this job as well too. You constantly learn about new things and new products and concepts. That's really cool. yeah.  but you would say it's  fair to say that. The startups invest in. They have to have a tech components and it needs to be scalable to justify then , the VC type of investment and the returns that need to come with it?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:22:27] . Exactly. Yeah, for sure. For sure. We do some deep tech, but mainly mainly a software  and we have to see the scalability on his 
Remo Kyburz: [00:22:35] Okay.  so now let's say there are people in the audience who are working on something in that field. So you said , Europe, mainly as a geography and seed. Right. Is there any other, like kind of restrictions you have or what you. Specify your investment targets should be?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:22:52] Yeah. So Europe mainly we have done some US investments and we can do US investments, but our focus is definitely on Europe. Seed and pre-seed, normally the tickets are from 200K to 2 million, so that's kind of our ticket size. And I would say that after seed that we want to have an ownership of about 10 to 15%, preferably closer to 15, just to understand how we work and we want to have a board seat and we want to be really active and help startups where we can as well.
So we are, you know, we have, we have Slack channels and WhatsApp channels with all of our startups and our are trying to just provide the value that we can with them. So we work really closely with them. As well. but in terms of other restrictions and no, not that I could think of just the fact that they're far enough and you know, have a team and have someone driving this and, of course, when you invest this early, so much is about the team themselves and, and just seeing potential rather than needing to prove so much at an early 
Remo Kyburz: [00:23:50] Yes. Yes. For sure. Can you disclose anything about the public investments you did so far? what type of companies there are, or are they not public yet?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:23:59] That's a great question. We haven't, one of them, went public with what they're doing last week, but I think I can speak about the first three actually. So one of them that used to be called 23, I've just changed their name to Overstory. they, use satellite imagery to, to, measure forests. So they work with utility companies to measure forests and prevent forest fires. 
Then we have patch, which is a US based company, that are essentially B to B, to C helping companies offset  micro offsets of purchases. 
and then we have Fiberform, which is a  UK and us based company actually, who are essentially building new crops for the future.
Remo Kyburz: [00:24:41] Oh, the sun's very interesting. And I think it also helps the audience to better understand what type of companies climate tech entails. So that sounds very exciting. And I was also thinking about now , especially in this climate space regulation probably has a big impact as well. And in Europe you have the European green deal, that is going on that should help reduce carbon emissions, et cetera.  Do you think regulation is acting fast enough to also support startups or. Is it rather a hindering factor at the moment? 
Heidi Lindvall: [00:25:15] I don't think it has been fast enough. I think they're definitely be able to be a lot of catching up  but I also think it's a really great thing that it's coming in now, you know, better late than  their rights and, And we do see a lot of opportunities from that.
So I think a lot of countries are saying, Oh, we're going to go carbon neutral by 2030. And they have no idea how to do that. And of course that's a huge opportunity for startups and there's going to be a lot of really great businesses that are built due to these regulations and due to all these businesses, having to complete change how they work and all of the governments having to change how that works.
So, we see this as a huge opportunity. . But I think of course they have to work even faster than they have previously. And, you know, we have a lot to do in order to actually start reversing that trajectory that we are on. So in that sense, yeah, the more we can do faster, the better.
Remo Kyburz: [00:26:07] Yeah, amazing. what you're trying to do with, Pale Blue Dot, so wishing you lots of success and that you invest in great companies that help, the climate and the world.  so I would like to shift.gears a little bit and ask about the learnings and advice you now, collected over the last few years as an entrepreneur, but also as an investor.
And so, first of all, it was very curious to learn your experience from raising a fund. Is there anything you can share, for like say a emerging fund managers or people that want to, raise a micro VC in Europe?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:26:40] Yeah. I've learnt that it's in a way, pretty similar to raising a round as an entrepreneur in the sense that it's so much about your network and who, you know, and having good references and just kind of surrounding yourself with good people.  I think Hampus my partner did probably 90%, if not more of the fundraising and just having a great network, , that we could ask for intros from has been really, really valuable.
And then also having great references. Like almost every LP then wants to talk to someone who's worked with us. And the fact that we have people that we have all invested in, who can actually discuss what we're alike as investors, has been really, really useful and really, really important. And I don't even think I understood the importance , of that before we came into this process. so that's definitely one thing. 
The other thing is, of course it's not as easy for anyone to raise this fund. I mean, I think this is a network , that, you know, we've all built over a very long time.
So coming into this without that, would have been very, very hard in a whole different story. And I think we've been incredibly lucky to be able to lean on that network in order to, raise so quickly. So that's also understanding that's what made this possible was a lot of luck and a lot of privilege as well.
The other thing I would say. Yeah, in many ways it's so similar. It's so similar to a startup. The other thing is creating urgency , and , you know, with our LPs, we've discussed all these changes in regulations and in consumer behavior and how this trend towards. climates and people are actually starting to take action. And I feel like a lot of LPs also felt that they don't want to be behind the curve. And we've actually had a lot of people come to us, who  have told us that they are actively looking at investing in a climate fund , and, you know, lucky for us. They haven't been many, there seems to be quite a lot popping up now, but there really haven't been many opportunities if you want to invest in a VC fund that does climates only in Europe.
So that has also meant that we've gotten some intros to, you know, LPs that we would otherwise never have gotten to speak with. , so I think urgency and timing is also so crucial to actually jump on a trend when it's happening. And I think that's the same for every startup to kind of try to be opportunistic when, when there's a shift and there's a new market emerging.
Those are probably my two key learnings of jumping on trends and, and the importance of your network.
Remo Kyburz: [00:29:07] Yeah. I fully agree with both points and I think also the climate topic of course,  is a very pressing issue. And. It seemed to help you. And I think you said six months, you were fundraising, from what I hear , it's a quite quick fundraising process.  It takes other people a year or up to two years to raise a fund.
Heidi Lindvall: [00:29:25] definitely.  it was very, very quick. And, and we were very, very grateful that we are able to now, you know, work on this full time after planning it for just over a year.
Remo Kyburz: [00:29:35] Great. And now also thinking about more the intrepreneurial, listeners to the podcast. Is there anything, specifically that you would tell now, companies in your portfolio. Any tips or resources you would recommend aspiring or founders to read, that could help them in launching their startup , or growing, let's say from a pre seed seed phase to the next stage?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:29:59] Yeah. I think one of the things that I would probably, advice people are not really advice people, but really, should they, you think about, it's just. To think about what you can add to the industry and not just try to think about how to fit in, because I feel like that's an issue. A lot of people feel like, Oh, in order to build a tech company, I need to fit in and I need to have these skill set and I need to look like this. And I hadn't need to have a team that does this. And I feel like we, you know, there's a lot of problems in the tech industry. I know that there's a lot of huge solutions that we're going to need to find, and we're going to need a lot of different people from different backgrounds and With different thinking and different mindsets. , and I feel like the more people we can get to our. Kind of able to be themselves and thinking about what can I add to this industry rather than how can I fit into this. I guess that's the better. So, so that's just one thing I, I, you know, always encourage people to don't change, to try to fit in, but try to figure out what you can add to instead.
And I think this is something that I went through myself cause I, the background in media and human rights. And even now, every now and then when I speak to people, they look at me a bit as an impostor, like, hold on a, you're a VC and you did not one of the big fours and you did not do it yeah. Degree or an MBA, or work in economics? And , I really. I think that's a huge strength because I'm looking at these deals differently. And  , I have a different background. I went through different things and we have such great conversations because the different people that we are in our investment team as well. And I really, really would love to see just more people from different backgrounds come into , this industry. , so that's just one important thing that I feel like I went through and I hope that other people can try to  feel, feel welcome and improve on as well in the future.
Remo Kyburz: [00:31:39] Yeah,  thanks for this advice. I think it's very helpful , for people to, just be themselves and that kind of, don't be shy to go into a field if they're really interested in it and want to make a change there. So, I really liked that. 
yeah. now I would like to go to one of my favorite parts , of these interviews and this is the rapid fire questions. So, I ' ll just ask you a few questions and you can just tell me your immediate thoughts. 
So first of all, what's a book that had a big personal impact on you and your life that you would recommend people to read?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:32:11] So I would say actually multiple , of Richard Branson's, autobiographies. I was very lucky to  work, close to Virgin , and Richard Branson on  a earlier time in my career. And one of the things that, for example, in his book, screw business as usual, that really impressed me was the fact that. I was able to start seeing business as not just  a profit driven machine, but also somewhere where you can have a great impact , and just looking at it from a different view. I think that's why originally when I was younger, it turned me off from the whole space is because it felt so cold and non-personal, but I felt like when I  read Richard Branson's book and. And who he is a person and his family values, and his you know, impact driven mindset that really made an impact on me and made me feel like, okay, maybe I can be an entrepreneur and make it. Maybe I can build a profit driven business, while still caring about all of these other things. , and so that made a huge impact on me.
  Remo Kyburz: [00:33:07] I will also make sure to link to the book and to all the other things you mentioned before in the show notes. So people can check it out. Well, when it comes to climate tech or the whole space, are there any websites or resources that are your favorite place to stay up to date what's happening?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:33:26] Yep. So it's, it's still pretty early. And I, and to be honest, I find a lot of my kind of reading and information still from Twitter, just by like following a lot of people who'd discussed this space. But a few that I would mention is there's a podcast called my climate journey from Jason Jacobs, which I think is really great.
There's actually a new newsletter that I read yesterday for the first time from a Michael Rubin. Both. And I think he's name is, is a, a Danish person. I think he's called the weekly climates and that it was first issue, but it was very good. And then I know there's a newsletter by Tommy Lee who also an investor called, the breeze.
so those are a few of the resources, but it's still pretty early. I wouldn't say that there's like one source where I get all of my information currently. It's just trying to, you know, Having Google alerts and trying to read articles, coming out around the space , and just looking at Twitter and seeing what other people are sharing and seeing what comes up. 
Remo Kyburz: [00:34:17] And what would you say is one of the best or most worthwhile investments that you've made so far? not necessarily money. It can also be of time or energy that you put into something. do you have any thoughts on that?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:34:29] Yep. That was definitely Storygami. And that was definitely  starting my own startup. Just the amount of stuff that I learned, just putting all of my, you know, money, time and energy into this one thing for multiple years. And like I said, when I first came out of it, I didn't even realize how much I'd learned.
But then when I went on the accelerator side and started helping other startups, I realize how much I'd gone through. And part of that was actually also. Going through 500 startups and going to Silicon Valley. And I felt like, I sometimes say that for me was like a crash course in doing business in Silicon Valley, but it was a whole new world having been active in, Berlin and London for the two, three years before that.
I don't think I learned as much as I did during those four months. of 500 startups. , so for me, it's definitely  putting the time and energy and saying, you know, if I'm going to do a tech startup, I'm going to do it right. And I'm going to learn as much as I can and really soak up the knowledge that I got on the way.
 Remo Kyburz: [00:35:24] And now if you could go back in time, let's imagine that for a second. And you could tell your younger self, a piece of it. Vice let's say, at the beginning of your career, after you finished your studies, what would you tell yourself?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:35:37] Yeah, I'm going to echo a little bit about what I said earlier. So I would just say to not, don't let others make you feel like an imposter because you're, you know, a woman in tech or you're a nontechnical, or you come from a different background or, or you speak a different language or whatever it is. I feel like it's, just, you know, Understand that you have as much right to be there as anyone else. And you are as important , to this scene as anyone else's. So I feel like just getting that confidence in early on and  realizing that you can really make a difference would have, would have helped a lot.
Remo Kyburz: [00:36:10] Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that, to close. I always like to ask my guests, a question related to the name of the podcast. So, what does courage mean to you personally?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:36:20] Sure. So courage to me is being the change that you want to see. Even when I lose, don't want to see it and making yourself heard and showing up, even when you're not welcome. That to me is  courageous when you're, you know, you show up day after day, even if you don't feel like other people want to see, or you just  keep voicing your opinion, even if they don't want to hear you that requires some courage.
  Remo Kyburz: [00:36:47] Yeah, definitely. I think these are some great closing words. So with that, thank you so much, Heidi, for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate your time. And I found it a very interesting conversation. So if people wanna. Learn more about you and pale blue dot. maybe you want to mention your Twitter handle or the website where they can find you and Pale Blue Dot?
Heidi Lindvall: [00:37:07] So our website is pale blue written out and then dots as an actual.vc. So paleblue.vc, and on Twitter, you can find us on @palebluedotvc and me at just Heidi Lindvall @Heidi Lindvall. So that's probably the best way.
Remo Kyburz: [00:37:25] Awesome. So I'll link to this as well in the show notes. And then thank you so much again for coming on the show.
Heidi Lindvall: [00:37:30] Thank you.