LeapTakersPodcast_#19 - Tobias Gunzenhauser
Remo Kyburz: [00:00:00] Coming up on this episode of Leap Takers:   
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:00:02] And actually was the most interesting part of all of this was that I read all those ingredient lists. And I saw of most of the things that I daily consumed,  were not really healthy. So they contain too much salt or sugar or fat or other additives that I've never heard of in my life. And then Luca and me were like, okay, what could we actually eat, that is very healthy but also very convenient. And then we thought, yeah, maybe  let's, let's go for baby food!
IntroRemo Kyburz: [00:00:30]  Hello, everyone. I'm happy to bring you a new episode today of the leap takers podcast, where I'm interviewing up-and-coming European entrepreneurs, investors, and shapers from various fields. To retrace the journey of how they started their own company. And to discover the insights, tips, tricks, and advice they gathered so that you too can take the leap.
 And I'm super excited about today's episode since it's just an amazing story, very inspiring. And I really love what this company is doing. So you probably wonder, who am I talking to today? My guest is Tobias Gunzenhauser and we talk about how he and his co-founders started Yamo. Yamo produces fresh organic baby and children food and sells it entirely online via a DTC that means direct to consumer model. They recently also made headlines through their 10 million Euro series, a fundraise. 
So today we talk about how the idea of Yamo was born, how the founders tested their idea, how they started producing their first products , all the hustle that came with that. And a lot more aspects of Yamo's origin story. Overall a lot of tips here from Tobias for fellow entrepreneurs and leap takers. 
One more thing before we get started, Tobias mentions two names during the conversation, which to non-Swiss listeners probably might not know. So this is Migros and Coop, which are the two biggest supermarket chains here in Switzerland. Just as a side note. 
Without further ado, then let's get started. And I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. 
Interview
Hi Tobias. Welcome to the Leap Takers podcast and thank you so much for coming on the show.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:02:12] Hi, thank you very much for having me.
Remo Kyburz: [00:02:15] Well, it's a pleasure to have you, and I'm really excited for this episode and to learn more about what you're building. So like the first question is always is if you could briefly introduce yourself to the audience and tell them what you're currently working on.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:02:30] Sure. so my name's Tobias, I'm one of the three founders of Yamo and we are building the first brand for really fresh, really tasty, organic, baby and children 
Remo Kyburz: [00:02:43] Awesome. what I would like to do is to start exploring the origin story from Yamo and start right at the beginning. Could you tell me and the audience, how you came up with the idea of starting a baby and children food company.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:02:57] Yeah. Sure. So, it's a bit of a funny story, I would say because, I don't have kids ,neither do both of my cofounders they don't have kids. we are now building baby and kids food brands, but, how it is sometimes in life, you just. Stumble into things and they turn out to be fantastic. And here we are.
So back then in 2015, it was in a fall. I was still working in my own job and actually one of my two cofounders. Now, Luca was a coworker of mine back then. And we always talked a lot about food because we both are really into food. We both like to cook. Luca is half Greek. So we also have very cool, Mediterranean cooking side to him.
So he was always telling me about cool Greek cuisine and dishes. And we were always talking a lot about food. And then this one day we both. I saw a documentary about veganism and we then discuss the documentary and we're like, okay, it's very interesting. And it seems like veganism is maybe here to stay.
And then we decided to eat vegan for a month and some sort of a food challenge. We did that, which was actually quite good. no problem whatsoever. Apart from this one thing. And that was  lunch, because where we had our old office, there was just gas station and, and the McDonald's where we could get lunch.
So we were at the gas station, almost , every lunch and the choice was either spaghetti carbonara for the microwave or spaghetti bolonaise for the microwave or, or one of those triangular sandwiches. And we had to read all those ingredient lists to check if it's vegan or not. And yeah, you can imagine none of it was.
And then I have a bit of a hard time and actually was the most interesting part of all of this was that I read all those ingredient lists. And I saw of most of the things that I daily consumed,  were not really healthy. So they contain too much salt or sugar or fat or other additives that I've never heard of in my life. And then Luca and me were like, okay, what could we actually eat, that is very healthy but also very convenient. And then we thought, yeah, maybe  let's, let's go for baby food because you know, it's something that is certainly very healthy and very convenient. So we went to the baby food aisle. It was the first time in my life that I actually had a look at those products. And the first thing that wasn't , really astonishing was that how long those products were shelf stable. They were shelf stable. for three years, five years. And they all look very much the same and then I was like, "wow, how is this possible"?
And then I said, look, well, I have a friend of mine, José he is called, he's a food scientist. So he actually knows something about food. I will call him. So I called José and was like, "Hey José, you gotta help me here. I do this vegan month and I want to eat baby food. And why are those products shelf set for so long? "
He said: "Yeah you know, this industry has not changed for 50, 60 years.  They would never change. That's how it is. And then it was like, okay. Yeah, I don't know this kind of be. And every time somebody tells me, this is how it is, you kind of change it. I have this feeling, this urge of, I need to find a way, there has to be something better. 
And then I went back to the office with Luca, we brainstormed the idea I'm going to, would it be to, to build a different brand?
That would be so cool. And how can it be that nowadays still products or just  shelf stable for so long and adults would never eat this. And this, this was such an interesting phase where we just were having those ideas. And after telling, I would say all of my friends and family and girlfriend now, wife, how kind of, how we have this idea of revolutionizing baby foods and everyone telling me like, wow, this is a dumb idea.
I kind of felt like, okay, This is it, I, I'm not even 30 years old now I will quit my job and I will start working on that because I have to do this now, if I don't do it or whatever. Yeah. Then one led to the other, so to speak.
Remo Kyburz: [00:07:15] awesome. That's that's really cool. So actually. I've never tried Baby food for myself, at least not in the last 25 to 30 years or so, but yeah, that's very cool. 
And do you remember what documentary you watched at the time that made you turn vegan?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:07:32] I can't recall how it was called. I know that it was on the Swiss television and it must have been somewhere in 2015. It's actually a good, good thing. I have to look it up because I want to see it again. think it would be cool.
Remo Kyburz: [00:07:45] That's quite interesting how these things led to one thing. And then the other ends, the next thing you start a baby food company. So, now you said you decided to quit your job and where you already like. I'm trying that out on the side first or was it like yes. Going to quit and then I'm going all in and you did not have anything really built before you quit or how was the situation at the time?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:08:09] Yeah. I mean, in the beginning, of course, I thought very hard and long exactly about this. I was like, okay, I have a cool job. I have a good salary. Should I just do this kind of on the side, start working a bit on it and very quickly, yeah. I realized this is not going to work because I really liked my old job.
And I also put a lot of heart in it. And, and. And I cannot do two things with all of my heart and brains. So I decided to do just one thing and this a hundred percent. So I opted to go that route and I knew of course, I mean, it's going to be tough because I, then I knew I will not have any salary. I have to live off , my savings to it's all uncertain, but I was always a bit, let's say maybe naively confident that's. It has to be possible to do something like this, especially in Switzerland because our social net is so strong. So  I will not land on the streets basically, or at least that's what I was telling myself. So, I thought, yeah, well, if it's not going to work, , then I'll find another job.
And then in the beginning we did a very clear plan. I really recall it was March, 2016. I had my last day, I'm an old job in February and then the next day already, I was with Jose in front of a big shelf in the supermarket, checking out the product area and asking young moms that were shopping there, why they shop what they do.
And then we said, okay, if by June  we need to know if this is going to work. So we need to do a market analysis. We want to interview a lot of young parents. We want to find a production facility or partner , and raw material suppliers, all of the things. We knew we want to do that within three or four months.
If we then say, okay, this is going to work. Then we will found a company. In June, we actually were there and we, we interviewed all those parents and, it was very clear what the need was of parents, because a lot of those interviewed moms, they told us, look, I'm a working mom or a part time working mom, or even the ones that were stay at home moms, they said, look, "I do pay food myself. I prepare myself because I want to assure that it is tasty. And I want to assure that that is high quality. But honestly, it's not really, I don't like doing it. It's not a fantastic thing to do. I'd rather want to cook something really elaborate and not just a carrot puree."
I really remember this one interview I had with a mom. She was a teacher and she told me that every Saturday afternoon she prepares baby food for two weeks in advance. It takes her four to five hours. She prepares baby food for those two weeks, she deep freezes the baby food in those ice cube trays. And then whenever the baby is hungry or a bit in advance already has to kind of know that the baby will be hungry. So she takes out the ice cube trays and gets them up again. And she said, it's just such a hassle, but honestly, I don't want to buy what is there right now and shelves because I wouldn't eat it myself.
And that was the baffling thing for me. How can it be that there is a product category that adults would not eat themselves, but they actually feed it , to the children that are just like small humans, right? Tiny, small humans. And they're supposed to at it, and this still is a paradox for me.
Remo Kyburz: [00:11:53] I think it really shows how you found it. definitely the need or a demand for a different type of products and what is out there. And , as you mentioned, didn't have a background in it. you said you did the market research, you interviewed a lot of people, which I think is a great approach to assess the demand. So what was the next step? Did you start manufacturing the product, or how did you even know where to start? How do you create baby food product? How did you approach that problem?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:12:18] I mean, in the beginning, I remember so well that Jose, he bought a machine on Amazon and was called "baby move" or something. And it was basically a little blender with also a steamer function. So he was able to steam puree and mix all of the products in one sheet. So, He did that for two days in a row, the machine broke  and he had all those , baby food, purees prototypes in little glass jars.
He took them right of the puree and went to playgrounds and just pitch it to parents who are like, Hey, I have this babyfood do you want to try it until like, okay, well a strange guy coming up to me for every baby wants to try it, but I think he's just so charming that people were actually giving it a try after people were like, Oh, that's this tastes fresh.
This says good. And it's like, yeah, you know, I want to build a sustainable company. So we did this prototypes and before like, okay, we got it. We've got it. Nailed down those others recipes that we would want to launch. We basically just have to produce them now.
 So  in our naivite, we said, okay, we will now rent an industrial kitchen. getting there, us three: Luca, Jose, and me,  and produce the baby food on our  own. So we did that. it was a disaster after we were in there in the kitchen for, I don't know, 12, 14 hours or something got up at five in the morning. Worked our ass off the whole day, that kitchen. And in the end we had something like 20 kilos of  fruit and vegetable puree, which was ridiculous, the amount and the kitchen was a mess and we were just super exhausted and we were there sitting there and two's like, okay, this is never going to happen. I mean  that's not how we can build a company.  we seriously had the idea that.  our first business plan said, we will spend three days out of five per week in the kitchen, ourselves preparing the baby food. And the other two days we will do some office stuff. So it was just, yeah, so naive, but, but also now thinking about it was quite fun. but we then realized very quickly, this is not , how we will be able to produce a real food product. We need to have super serious quality standards and everything. So , we started looking for production partners, because we clearly,were not able to just build this from nothing with our little money that we had. So we were looking for production partners, and then this took us quite some time.
Remo Kyburz: [00:14:47] Before we go to the production partner, were you able to sell this 20 kilo of baby food that you produced?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:14:54] No, we actually really had to eat it ourselves because we back then we were not able to yet package it. So we just basically had a lot of puree and we packed it in big bags or something like that. And then I think we ate it, but we did not even have a packaging sheet because in that kitchen or that industrial thing there where we were, there was no filling packaging machine, just cooking equipment. 
Remo Kyburz: [00:15:19] Okay. And did you already have like some type of online store or any distribution channel at the point or was it really just about trying out to make the product?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:15:27] Exactly. It was really about trying. It was really first go at. Yeah, we do this industrial food production now, which was, yeah. We were not even thinking about selling it yet.
Remo Kyburz: [00:15:39] And you mentioned them going for production partner. Would you say. That's the way to go from the beginning. Now, looking back that you should have started that from the beginning, or do you think it was helpful that you tried to do it yourself first, maybe as a learning experience?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:15:52] That's a good question. I think it's certainly a good experience.  I think it would have been. Not wise to try this for weeks and weeks. We tried it once and we failed and it's something that is also ingrained in our DNA. Now it's fail, but fail fast. So we want to be very fast, but we also, we, we know that to be fast, you need to make mistakes, learn from them very swiftly and then adapt.
That's something that we still do today. And, I think that, especially in food, It is really important to either have a lot of money to build your own production, which is also very cool, but you need a lot of know how and money, or you go to, very, very good companies that work with you that understand you that want to work with you. Even though in the beginning, you have almost nonexistent volumes for them. So that's big issue, because you, you will never be. A good business for all of them. So you need to find someone that believes in you and your vision that you really pull it off.
Remo Kyburz: [00:16:55] And how did you approach this to find a production partner that really you felt comfortable to work with?  I also imagine it's not that easy to find them. It's not that you can just like, find someone very easily or just Google. Like what are the best production partners?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:17:09] I was also there. I thought like if I Google "food production partner", I would find easily 10, but all of those companies there. They're ghosts they're they don't exist on the internet. There are so many cool small, oftentimes family owned companies that produce things that you, that you see on shelf of Coop and Migros  , but there is no brand on it because it's a private label for Coop or for Migros. You just have to find them. And it is really about networking. One person knows another person.  And we went into the store, we looked at products that were packaged similarly  than our products that we were thinking of.
And then we just called those companies because sometimes there was kind of produced by or something. 
It took us weeks and actually months to then find a partner, in the end we were so happy with, with the partner that we found, because it was a family owned company.  The owner, the guy who ran the company, he really believed in us.
And he was like, okay, look, I have a lot of people coming in here every week asking me to do this and that. But, it seems like you guys are really serious. we can try it in the beginning. I think he, they, he fought like, well, they will be gone in a week or two, but we kept at it. We kept on coming to him, wanting to produce more and try more stuff and do different stuff. I think that  was very important to also to build the trust with him.
Remo Kyburz: [00:18:42] . And I imagine that it's also, when you talk to these manufacturers of production partners, that they have some minimum amounts you need to produce, and then you need to work on prototypes. How did you. You approached that also, because I assume you did not have too much capital yet. And you could maybe not to build like a hundred K units of this at the beginning?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:19:03] So in the beginning, we, what we offered them is that we would kind of help out in the production. So that's, they would have to staff less of their people on our production. And it was us, mainly Jose I have to say , and he did an unbelievable job back then. He was sometimes, I don't know, three, four in the morning because they produce very early.
He was, their production was running the production, basically looking at nothing goes wrong. And that was kind of the deal that we have with them. Which worked out for quite some time, but then at some point it was not sustainable anymore and also it did not make sense that Jose was in the night producing and on the day he was doing all the things, he must have a bit like Batman that is not really sustainable.
, but I think that's something . That makes probably sense to offer such a deal if you can. And because there has, of course, a lot of knowledge. So he also knew what to do in the production. Also learned lot then I guess, but that one for us was helpful. And then the other thing that was really, really helpful is that the partner was not really about the money.
He said, look, if I help you now, you guys do well. Money will come for me. Eventually. I think that's something this long term thinking you can oftentimes only find maybe within the family-run companies, because they  themselves are multigenerational and they understand, and it's not about quarterly earnings reports or things like that.  They understand that things take time to take off. 
Remo Kyburz: [00:20:43] Are you still working with the same producer today? Or did you build up your own manufacturing?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:20:48] No, we actually did not build our own manufacturing and that's something that we still, maybe somewhere in the future. but not today.
Remo Kyburz: [00:20:57] that's awesome. I like the hustle and like that you were actually really, you know, trying your own food and you were like in the production line, so that's really shows kind of the hustle you have to go through to make these companies work. So that's very cool. Now I want to go a bit more into like then the selling part as well. we talked all about how you came up with the product nowadays with the whole D2C, you see a lot about tools like Shopify, et cetera, as a way of distributing your products. How did you go about launching an online store or how did you think about distribution at the beginning and how did it develop?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:21:36] Yeah. So, we did that in 2017. We did a crowd funding campaign, to pre sale the first products. So , we had a funny video and, a lot of texts and things that we explained and what is exactly better in our product. And then we launch a crowd funding campaign and it went very well. We actually sold more than we actually wanted to sell. So we got more money in that campaign. And this allowed us to really produce for the first time, big scale. 
Remo Kyburz: [00:22:05] What crowdfunding platform did you use at this time?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:22:08] We used, wemakeit.ch. So, because they're the biggest in Switzerland and we knew that it would not make sense to go to a US platform like Kickstarter or Indiegogo, because I mean, we could not ship there anyway because our product is fresh.
And, we did that. And then we, we actually produced for the first time, shipped out the products, just for the crowdfunding campaign and in parallel, worked on our first online shop, which was. Back then built on WooCommerce, kind of a WordPress, commerce platform because Shopify back then was not what it is right now.
I think nowadays everyone would go to Shopify immediately because it's just so good. And all the connections are so, so easy. easy doable. It's just, yeah, it's gigantic. Back then  it was not that big yet. We tried that first time and, there, we really, we kind of failed with, with the whole online shop a lot, because we did not have any knowledge within our founding team on how to build an eCommerce platform.
Just none. We, of course we always exchange with a lot of different people, but. It was apparently not enough because otherwise we would have opted to do something different. And then we built this thing and we immediately realize it is not going to work because so many floors. And it was just, it was a mess.
And then we started rebuilding everything from scratch, with our own. We then develop a stuff we've worked with that's where. in the near shoring company in Belgrade, we still work with them because they are amazing. And, they're really not just, let's say freelance as such. They're really part of the team and are true Yamo stars.
And, and then everything kind of went, went the right direction because we had it under our control. I think if a lot of people ask me. So would you still go that route that you would build everything yourself? Or would you just take something ready,-made? I don't know. Magento or Shopify, and I think it really depends on the stage that you're in. Plus the vision that you have. 
We have a vision where we want to build a lot of things, very into the direction of personalization and offer a lot of services through our platform. And therefore, I think for us, it was the right decision. But I think if you want to have just a regular e-commerce where you sell something, then I would say nowadays go for Shopify I think because it's just, it's just so easy.
 Remo Kyburz: [00:24:41] Nowadays. you have, all these integrations for, and at Shopify and similar platforms. Do you know how the situation is for, Switzerland and I think you also ship to Germany and Austria, , do you think nowadays it's easier to find partners that help you with shipping and that this is all integrated into  your systems? Or how do you see that? Nowadays or when you started, how was it to really work together with other partners like distribution partners that actually shape your product or warehouse, et cetera?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:25:12] So that is, I think, still the gap , between the platforms, the software, basically, and then the actual warehouse partner or the fulfillment partner or the shipping partner is still there. I think a lot of warehouses they're not on a level where they could just plug you in basically. so it's always work.
If you want to, after real integration where afterwards, if an order comes in, you don't have to manage this process is anymore. I mean, we, for in the beginning four months, we did that. We manually processed every, all the orders in Excel sheets and everything. We manually send out invoices and everything manual.
And this is something that I don't know if it's different than other countries, but especially here in Switzerland, we could not go to. Just warehouses and they would have everything ready made, and it's just a push of a button. There we go,
Remo Kyburz: [00:26:04] so there's still some room for improvement there, I guess in the industry.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:26:08] indeed. But I think the more e-commerce grows, the more, this will be just standard.
Remo Kyburz: [00:26:15] Yup. Let's hope so. let's jump a bit forward then to more recent news. I saw on your website, you have now with like already a whole bunch of products that you offer that have really cool names by the way. And how did you. You know, grow there or where are you right now? Maybe you can briefly describe to the audience, what type of products specifically you offer and where you're at with the company nowadays?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:26:37] Sure. So, we currently are where we started was with baby food, baby food for children as a four months, four or five months. And then we started acting with five or seven products. We then, Extended product range to 11 different flavors. Also added more exotic combinations. For example. Lentils red beet and pear.
I think some things that you wouldn't do really yourself at home, but still things that taste very well. And third nutritionally  very valuable. we always work of course, with nutritionists and pediatricians when we develop our recipes. So that's very important. And then after that, we expanded into another product category that is for babies as of six, 10 months.
So little bit older also for toddlers that  can already hold the product themselves and are not spoonfed anymore.   also adding cow milk sometimes within two products.
 And then what we did next is that we said, okay, well, we now have a very nice line up of, by now, 20 something ish, products or rescues in this baby sector. We have things with vegetables, products with fruits, always also adding the needed content of iron, which for example, spinach or proteins with chickpeas. And then we said, yeah, we want to do something now , for kids, because we saw all of those children products, especially in when you go to the dairy segment, where you see some of the children products that just have a lot of sugar. So, I think one of the best selling children yogurts has something like 14 grams of sugar on a hundred grams, which is a lot. And, fruits content of. A couple, two, three, 4%. And if you look at the ingredient lists, you basically need a PhD in chemistry to understand it's in there.
And that's something that we though. Well, it's not really how  we would want to eat ourselves. And when we talk to parents, they tell us, look, it's not really what, I want for my kids, but they just like it. And it's the only thing I can get. So yeah, I buy it. And then we figured we want to do something now for kids that is very tasty, but also very healthy.
And then it was Through ,  a couple of iterations. , we stumbled upon , the raw material, the oats, or oats milk actually then, and it has a very, very good taste and nutritional values. And then we  thought, why are we not doing a  children yogurt alternative made from oatmilk?.
And then prototype d that and it tastes very, delicious. We added a couple of fruits to it and then it was just really good. it took us, I think, a year or something to, to develop the product and then we launch it. Now summer of this year, was Europe's first oatmilk based yogurt alternative , for children's. Sugar content  of only five to six gram  per 100. So almost a third of what's your regular children yoghurts have, very high in actual fruits, no added sugar, still organic and a lactose free. So it also is good for, for, children that , have some allergies and it's a real hit that product. Actually, it's liked a lot by parents and their kids.
And that's  where we are now. So our vision of Yamo is growing together. We want to grow together with our customers and our consumers, but also internally,  us as Yamo stars, we want to grow together. And for that, we need to develop  new, , exciting products for children up to 12 years of age.
Remo Kyburz: [00:30:29] The yogurts sound definitely delicious. , I almost would like to try one, even though I'm not a kid anymore. Well, that's very cool. 
What about. some learnings that you had  in the last, years since you started Yamo, what were your key takeaways? If you had to do it all  over again, what would you say were your key takeaways and what would you do differently?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:30:51] Yeah. So I think one key takeaway definitely is fail, but fail fast. It's super important to test things. And to also be honest with yourself, Is this going to work or not? And  if you tried your best. It does not work. You better switch to something different and that's still very much what we do daily, with every, I'd say things we do in marketing or product development. That's just very important.
 I think the second thing that is also very important, is something that I was told very early on when we started, from other founders, I know it's, it's, it sounds super trivial and stupid , but it's so true. Everything takes twice as long and everything is twice as expensive as you think.
And it always turned out to be really true. Still today. We are still very ambitious and we want to grow fast as we do. And, but still your plans are always, a little bit tighter than what you in the end, what you can do. otherwise I think  , if you don't aim high, you kind of jump high.
Remo Kyburz: [00:31:57] Yeah. Makes sense. 
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:31:58] I think the absolute most important last learning that I had was that is it's all about the team. So in the beginning you are, founders, I don't know, two free people that just hustle. Day and night for, for your, for your dream, for your vision. And, you have, oftentimes I think , not that much prior knowledge of how to build a company.
And then you have to first people that are, are thrilled about the idea that one want to join you at.  You really, you're forming , a real company and there it is just so absolutely important to have exactly people that want to go with you all the way. And that's something that I'm so happy about and proud that we, we are this team now of people that.
Want to go that way that want to build a real cool company in this area, that are not here just because yeah, I need to have a job or something, but it's, they actually are on this mission. We all are. And it's just absolutely awesome.
Remo Kyburz: [00:33:09] very cool. I'm also wondering, are there any tools that you would recommend people that would like to start a D2C company nowadays? I know you mentioned  you built your own website, but maybe there are plugins or other tools you use to test your idea, anything that comes to mind?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:33:26] I think what you can see nowadays often it's that people kind of create those testing companies or brands and launch them on Instagram. So they just have they call it, I don't know, what's a random name. They do some so pictures that do and run some Instagram ads and then they maybe have even a landing page or maybe they don't, maybe they say like, you can all the fruit art message or things like that.
Or they have a landing page where you could just leave your email address or even purchase something, but then you would either be able to purchase this or, or you would just, they would just tell you, sorry, it's not available right now, but you can check a new waiting list. I did. This is something that I see often now.
And I think it's a very, very good idea before actually going all in and building all of yourself. You can really test a market like this.
Remo Kyburz: [00:34:16] Yeah. Sounds like a sensible approach before spending all that money and producing hundreds and thousands of products.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:34:24] Yeah. I mean, I still am sometimes amazed by how, how really brave. People all, when they, for example, order, I don't know a ship full of t-shirts or computers or something at the end, like, okay, I have this container full of X. I'm going to sell it now. Well,
Remo Kyburz: [00:34:45] Yeah, well, there's two approaches. Both can be successful, I guess. Cool. So, before we wrap up, I want to jump quickly into the rapid fire questions. So, if you could just give me your immediate thoughts to the questions, and let me know what you think. 
So the first one:  what is your favorite book that you read that had a big personal impact on your life? It can also be a movie or a documentary or something.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:35:12] I think it would be Shoe Dog, the biography of Phil Knight's the founder of Nike , I think I never read a book that fast my life. I think I read it in a day or two something and it was just an amazing, inspirational entrepreneurial story. I loved it.
Remo Kyburz: [00:35:31] Yeah, I didn't read it yet, but I heard a lot of good things about it. So it sounds like a very inspiring story for sure. 
Is there any other product apart from Yamo that you use often that is maybe in the D2C space or that is just product that you like?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:35:47] Yeah, D2C, I order sometimes MyMuesli. I liked the  concept of it. I like all of their communication. I like how the tastes of their muesli, of course. And, yeah, that's, that's something that I frequently order.
Remo Kyburz: [00:36:01] if you think about it, if you could give advice to your younger self at the beginning of your career, or even before you started Yamo, what would you tell yourself like 10 years ago?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:36:13] Oh, wow. I really don't know if I would tell myself, go work in a startup as your first job. I first job, maybe I would, because I think. Just to do dynamics of things. And what you can learn is, really crazy. I mean, the learning curve within a startup is just super steep and I think that's really the most important thing for when you have, when you graduate. It's just learning, learning, learning. That's the most important thing then again, I think when you go to. To an already established company. You sometimes learn things by the book and that's also very helpful for afterwards for your startup. So , difficult question. , maybe , I would say , go  working in a really cool, fast growing startup. You will learn a lot. I think that's what I would tell myself.
Remo Kyburz: [00:36:58] Cool. And last question relates to the name of the podcast. So what would you say does courage mean to you personally?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:37:09] I think courage is really , when you do something that other people would shy away from, and this can be  various things. I don't know, for example, it being going to a developing country and helping people build something there, or even here, I mean, doing something that just other people wouldn't, wouldn't dare doing, because they would rather want to have a regular life. And I think. Building a company and being an entrepreneur is also something a lot of people shy away from because it's just a lot of work and tears and, and also joy, but also a lot of work and some more work. And that's just something that I think a lot of people wouldn't want to do.
Remo Kyburz: [00:38:01] Well, I think that was great advice and very interesting to hear the background story and the origin story of Yamo. So thank you very much Tobias. Before we close, where can people find more about yourself and Jamo online? yeah. W what are your handles or where can people find more about you?
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:38:17] So, our website is www.yamo.bio . Bio like the organic foods.  then, usually we are, of course on Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Facebook, everywhere, where our handle is yamobaby. And there you can find all those nice pictures, cool stories and the videos.
Remo Kyburz: [00:38:39] Awesome. So I will make sure to link that as well in the show notes. so people can check it out there if they want to have a look. And yeah. Thank you so much. That was really fun. And I learned a lot Thank you so much.
Tobias Gunzenhauser: [00:38:50] Thank you so much Remo
Outro
Remo Kyburz: [00:38:51] All right, everyone . Thank you so much for listening to this episode, you could do me a really big favor. If you would just tell one of your friends about the Leap Takers podcast and recommend it, or if you want to even more quickly head over to the iTunes or Apple podcast store and give the Leap Takers podcast, a five star rating.
This would really help me to get more visible and that I'll be able to continuously bring on great guests to this show. Thank you so much. Also, if you have any feedback or suggestions for future guests, just shoot me a message. You can find all my contact info on leaptakers.com, or you can also follow me on Twitter or Instagram, where you can find me under remokyburz, or just follow the leaptakers podcasts directly in Instagram as well.
So having said that, thanks again for listening and have a great week. Bye bye.