LeapTakersPodcast#11 - Sebastian & Carl-Philipp

[00:00:00] Remo Kyburz: Hello everyone. Welcome to the newest episode of the leap takers podcast. Today we have a bit of a special episode since I have two guests at once on the show, which is a first, so you might ask, who am I into today? My guests are Sebastian Wahl and Carl-Philipp von Polheim. They are the founders of mybacs.
So you might think my-what?
Let me explain, mybacs is a D-to-C, research driven biotech company for gut health products, and they're based in Switzerland. The company focuses on products that target the human microbiome to improve wellbeing. And they have two types of products, like a travel product and the daily wellbeing, probiotic product that is tailored to your individual needs.
So for example, if you're going to South America, they have a product that helps you or your gut to adjust beforehand to the [00:01:00] local bacteria in the foods. I thought this was quite cool, and I don't have any affiliation or sponsorship from mybacs, but I just thought they're great guys. They have a cool product.
And I wanted to learn more. I believe mybacs is on a good track to become something big. And they also received a seed funding round last summer from Global Founders Capital, which is the VC firm that was founded by Oliver Samwer. And I believe overall there's a lot to learn in this episode, especially if you're interested in the direct to consumer, B2C space.
We talk a lot about how to get started in this industry, how to manufacture a product, et cetera. Before we get started, I wanted to share a quick quote, or line of advice, with you that I came across lately. Here we go:
"Don't be afraid to say your true point of view, even if it's in disagreement with your boss.

I don't care if it's Mark Andreessen or Ben Horowitz or anyone who is extremely famous or well accomplished who disagrees with me. [00:02:00] I'm very willing to share my point of view." 
This is a quote of Connie Chan, a partner at the very well known VC firm, Andreessen Horowitz. I believe this quote has a lot of truth to it, and this might be a good new year's resolution for all of you as well.
   
I know, for example, that for myself, I should definitely work on that to be more outspoken about my true point of view. So having said that, please enjoy this interview with Sebastien and Carl-Philipp. 

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Leap Takers podcast and hi to Sebastian and Carl that are here with me today from mybacs.

 So thanks for coming on the podcast guys, and I'm excited that you could make the time because I really enjoyed your product when I  first heard about it and thought it was a really cool concept. So yeah, thanks for coming on the show. 

Carl-Philipp: Thank you so much for inviting us. We're very happy to be here today and looking forward to the next 30 to 45 minutes.

Remo Kyburz: Cool. Yeah, me too. And I think the great place to start would be just to learn a bit more about [00:03:00] how you would describe what you're doing right now with mybacs. Like how would you introduce yourself to someone at a cocktail party and what you're doing right now?

Carl-Philipp:  Okay. Sure. , my name is Carl and  I'm the co-founder of mybacs, so originally, I don't have a, pharmaceutical or medical background. I studied business. I worked in finance, then worked for a startup, which is also focused on the financial industry. And Sebastian and I know each other from school. And then he came over. You approached me with the idea to do something in the region of the human microbiome, and I really liked the idea.
And, when we were younger, we always talked about founding a company together and then this was the right moment. . 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. Then thanks again also from my side , for inviting us for the podcast. It's a very nice opportunity to, talk a bit about our company. And, as Carl-Philipp said, yes we are a company that, deals with the human microbiome and are developing therapeutic solutions for the human microbiome in, various different areas. As [00:04:00] an overall description of our company. 

Remo Kyburz: I would like to kick this off with learning a bit more about the origin story of mybacs and how you developed the idea first.
Yeah, we'll is there any story behind this. How you came up with the concept?

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah actually there is so Carl-Philipp and me, we did a lot of traveling. Also we traveled through South America for a couple of months together. And what we always had issues with, different foods and  different countries we traveled to and had problems , with our intestine , and our reaction to the food in different countries.
And after we did some more digging into that, then we thought, well, why does that happen? And the problem is that there's so many different pathogens that are everywhere around you, all over the world. And these  foodborne pathogens get into your system and then can accumulate in the intestine and cause Traveler's diarrhea.
So we thought, what is there to do , cause right now there's like two different solutions to that, you could either take Immodium that just gives you constipation and you still have , the pathogens in [00:05:00] your intestine or you take Antibiotics that just kill every bacteria in your intestine and then also the good bacteria. Which you obviously also don't want. So is there a natural way to prevent travelers' diarrhea? 
And what we did is , we did some looking into probiotics so as to give, good bacteria to your intestine that prevents the pathogenic bacteria in these different countries to get into your system and I accumulate  in your intestine and then cause travelers' diarrhea as a natural way to prevent that disease.
That was like the first thing that we thought of. And we were like, why is no one doing this? Why is no one going into this field?
And we then from that point went on and developed the products to be  a regionally specific product.
And then also to go into this whole field of the microbiome, which is a huge field with a lot of research being done right now. A lot of interest  by customers. And where we think that we have  a good place to develop something as a new company that is very transparent with other ingredients and how they come [00:06:00] about and other strategies with all the, research we cite on our website, for example that has been done on the microbiome to give the consumers the best product we can.

Remo Kyburz: Yeah. That sounds great. And was this still during your studies when you came up with this idea?  I don't know about your background if you started working in a corporate before or if you?, 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah, so maybe a little bit about our background. I, myself, I studied  pharmaceutical sciences here in Zurich at ETH. and also during my studies, I, did some deeper diving into the topic of the microbiome cause I was really, really fascinated by this topic. And, yeah, I, have, some work experience in strategy consulting and in venture capital a bit.  And then in 2018, yeah I  was ready  to start mybacs.  

Carl-Philipp: Yeah. As I previously mentioned, I worked in finance and investment banking, private equity, and then, for a FinTech startup. And yes, as I said, Sebastian approached me with the idea and then there was all this [00:07:00] rising consumer awareness about the gut microbiome and what effect the microbiome has on your whole overall wellbeing and what diseases it can link to, for example, depression, cancer, and so on.
And, then we both knew, okay, this is the right, the right timing. And, if not now, when should we do it? So, yes. that was, one and a half years ago.  

Remo Kyburz: And  walk me through how this went about. So. Did you both quit your jobs or did you start working on this on the side first? And how did you go about it?  Like, did you set up a company immediately? Did you do some market testing? Maybe if you can share a bit about this?

Sebastian Wahl:  So it was actually actually, pretty abrupt that we started. It was after.., so we traveled to South America together where we  further looked into this topic and  knew that we wanted to do something.
And after that, we both finished universities had no job where we're actually about to start different [00:08:00] jobs. But then took a month of time, in my basement actually, where we did a lot of research on what is the market like right now in this field? And what are the possibilities? How big is the market potentially as well?  Is it even worth starting a company there?  Is that something that investors are interested in as well? And there were a lot of thoughts  we put into a lot of research we put into before we actually then made the decision to start a company  and go for it.

Carl-Philipp: Exactly. So there were many ups and downs , especially in the beginning. And there were so many days when we thought, okay, we were not going to proceed. And then there were many days where we thought, okay, this can be ,a big company. And, yeah, it took about, three to four months after we did all the business planning or then we prepared the pitch deck.
We talked to many investors, conducted customer interviews, which is absolutely crucial to see if there's market potential. And, yes. And then we incorporated the company.

Remo Kyburz:  And when you did this market testing or customer interviews. I can imagine that in Europe or in [00:09:00] Switzerland, there is not that much awareness here yet about micro biome and about probiotics compared to maybe the U S or other countries. So how was your experience?
Marker

Carl-Philipp:  So that's absolutely true. The market in the U S is way bigger than, in the GSA region, for example, and also in Europe. But, there are many triggers,  such as a journalist who wrote about the effects of the microbiome on the overall wellbeing. Then there were books are released.
It's called Darm mit Charm. It's a,  German book, and this caused a lot of awareness. And, even though the market size is smaller than in the U S There is a market which is growing at CAGRs from 7 to 10% every year. And, so right now there's a good timing to go into this market because current players, are very old fashioned, especially in their marketing activities and their distribution channels. And, the market was really ready to disrupt, and that's what we're trying to do. 
And about the U S so we right [00:10:00] from the beginning, we thought about actually starting the company in the U S which is not that easy if you're not a US citizen, but in mid 2020. We plan to launch there. 

Remo Kyburz: And you're right now mainly in Germany and in Switzerland? 

Carl-Philipp: So we commute between a Zurich or Zug, and Munich and yes, we have the whole production and the logistics is all in Germany.  

Remo Kyburz: Cool. And you mentioned production. This is also a topic I was very curious about because I know quite a lot of people who want to maybe start a startup or manufacturer physical product.
But then it's really hard. How do you get started if you have no experience with manufacturing and project? how did you approach this? like I have actually no idea how you would do it to really manufacture physical product, especially in this space. It must even more complex than just the food product.

Sebastian Wahl:   it's very, very complex. And the thing is and that's something  that you realize early is that, , for everything, there's, specialists as well. So you're not the one that is going to physically [00:11:00] mix the product ,or are going to grow the bacterial cultures and so on.
But there's specialists that have been doing this for a long time. That are going to help you on every step. So that, for example, the, bacterial cultures, there's specialists that did all the studies with the bacteria  and so on where you buy them. And then, you have different manufacturers that are very specialized in the mixing of the products and the capsulation and then the filling into boxes and so on.
It's  something that you're planning together  with other people that are helping you start up because they are basically your contract manufacturer that you have a contract with and that do the manufacturing for you. It's not  like you would need to have every expertise of every person inside the supply chain right away. And then, I mean, that is taking care of your own production, having your own facilities and so on. As something for a company that is growing and,  is definitely a lot larger than our companies. But right now I'm working with contract manufacturers. Is, is the way to go.

Remo Kyburz: So like as a recommendation for another startup, you would probably say, get an idea of the [00:12:00] supply chain and then reach out to. Potential partners along the supply chain? 

Sebastian Wahl: Exactly. So, and then you have to do a lot of research on, and evaluation or a lot of calls with different possible, manufacturers and so on along your supply chain and then people  that want to work with you or could work with you and, and just choose the correct partners.
Also on the, on the one hand, that allow you to have smaller batches in the beginning. But then also can have larger baches once you grow cause  you don't want to switch contract manufacturers. That's something that is a very, very cumbersome process.  Just make sure everything's right and then, start the production. 

Remo Kyburz: And how long did it take you to get from, let's say, the idea to shipping your first products to your first customer? 

Sebastian Wahl: So the moment we really started doing research was, like June 2018 , this was when we really put the effort in and said, okay, we're going to do the whole market research.
We're gonna, we're gonna, and 

Carl-Philipp: we, you know, the winter before we actually  [00:13:00] together. 
Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. But then we had a little break  then we took a little break because of other reasons. Then we traveled together and then we, yeah, 
yeah.  so in the beginning of February, we shipped our first products.
So that was like 2019 yeah.  

Remo Kyburz: Now looking at assembling the team. So you two already knew each other. Did you already hire more people now in the team? And how big are you? 

Carl-Philipp: So we're at 15 people now. which is the team mainly consists of product operations and marketing. So marketing has really, our marketing team have really grown in the past month.
And what we really saw is, after every raise capital, obviously they're small, they're small inbound of people who want to work at your company. And after we hired marketing specialists. All the unit economics and everything was really improving. And, it really gave a push to the company overall.

Remo Kyburz: And what were your thoughts on hiring or assembling the right team, especially maybe a space that is relatively new like [00:14:00] this? 

Carl-Philipp: Exactly. So on the one hand, we need to have people who understand the product because it's not as easy as many other startups products are. So we  have medical doctors in our team and pharmaceutical scientists.
And on the other hand, when you need to have marketing people who really understand the D2C market, which pretty emerged during the past years, and there were many companies, and now we launched a subscription model. And it's not that easy. But, people who have done marketing for a D2C company will be the guys to go for, and the product guys really have to teach the marketing guys how the products work, and then you've got good synergies and can build up the company.

Remo Kyburz: And when you mentioned you also hired some experienced people with a background in pharmaceuticals. How do you incentivize people to come to a startup? 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah, that's, that's not that easy.
Remo Kyburz: Might be tricky, right? 

Carl-Philipp: Yeah, of course. You can work with different methods. You can have like a partially fixed salary [00:15:00] and partially variable salary that is bounded to  successes in the future. And obviously you have the possibility to give them  an employee stock option plan and so that they get virtual shares and are participate in the the company's exit. If one appears. 

Remo Kyburz: You also mentioned the investors before. So I think you've got a round from Global Founders Capital. And were you planning from the beginning to raise outside capital from a VC, or what were your thoughts about scaling up the company and financing or funding the company? 

Carl-Philipp: What we really want to do is, or what we still want to do, is building up a big company. And if you only have angel funding, it gets hard at some point to build up a big company because we need intensive marketing activities and they obviously cost a lot of money. Then we need to finance our production and everything, and this costs lots of money. And, what we thought it's better to have [00:16:00] a venture capital fund early in your company because then it's getting easier to raise, for further rounds.
Because if you only have angels in your company, it's getting harder and harder and harder to raise further rounds. And at some point they don't have the financial capabilities to finance a round. And yes, that's where we went for the..  

Sebastian Wahl: And your cap table gets very, very crowded very soon. This makes everything a lot more difficult.

Remo Kyburz: Yeah, I fully agree on those. I think having a VC on board early on can help you with introductions later.

Carl-Philipp: Yes, especially where rocket or global founders capital is assisting us a lot is talent, which is absolutely crucial. They have a huge network of all their different companies with people who are very experienced, especially in the D2C market.
And in proceeding fundraising rounds, they are also assisting a lot. And if people see, or other funds see that global founders capital is invested. Obviously, it has a signaling effect. And, Yeah. That's pretty good. 

Remo Kyburz: Do you have any tips for other aspiring entrepreneurs how [00:17:00] you approach fundraising?  Because I mean, Global founders capital is quite a well known VC, so, yeah. Any insights or tips for others for fundraising? 

Carl-Philipp: So, never be too needy. Obviously you will get lots of rejections, especially in the beginning when you're raising on a pitch deck and if you haven't founded a company before, but, that's absolutely normal.
There will be so many people that say, "your company is going to fail" and don't get demotivated by this. And also be cautious. Don't take any offer like, and really read the documents. And if they really want to invest in your company, you also have some bargaining power.
So try to play that well. 
Sebastian Wahl: And also , what I think is very important to, go to the important conferences in Europe, especially like, like the NOAH conference in Berlin or London. And what is there - Slush. And also even  the student conferences like Start Summit in St. Gallen is a very nice conference to get your company out there and then actually have a lot of investors look at your company and [00:18:00] just not fail to raise money because people have never heard of your company that shouldn't be the reason you not getting funding. 

Carl-Philipp: So for example, if we raised with the GFC, I think right after the NOAH conference. 

Remo Kyburz: And you met them there, or you already had contact? 

Carl-Philipp: No, but we were invited to, to pitch to the startup pitch.
There. And, after this, they approached us and they saw our pitch. And that's a good opportunity, like as a founder, especially when your company's so young try to, apply to all those startup competition pictures because people, people would see you. And as Sebastian, already said, it helps you to get your company out there.

Remo Kyburz: Great points here.  Changing the topic a little bit away from fundraising to more the general D2C market. You mentioned that a few times. I'm a big fan of direct to consumer and I think it's a big rise in the last few years. I think it's only coming more and more to Europe now.
I think in the US it's quite established and a lot of exciting companies have are now in the space. So what is your [00:19:00] view on D2C? Why did you pick this, this model, and where do you see the advantages in it? 

Carl-Philipp: Sure. So one great thing about D2C is, especially when you're sending customers through your own web shop, you have all your analytics, and in today's world you get lots of data.
You really start to understand your customer. You have a personal touch point with the customer. You know, you can collect customer feedback quite easily and you really know how your customer works. And, that's obviously an advantage because we have both sides. We have the D2C, a subscription model, and some D2C for our travel product.
But we also, sell our travel product through pharmacies. So we really have th comparison. And, what we see is, especially when selling through the pharma wholesalers, it's very hard to getting to know your customer because they sell your products to the pharmacy and you don't know , who buys the product in the end.
Maybe you can do analysis when you're way bigger and have more capital to, look at those [00:20:00] factors. But it's not possible for a company of our size. And that's why we really liked , the D to C market. And, the only way that your company succeeds,  if you understand your customer , and develop your company accordingly.
So really see your company as a continuous learning process. 

Remo Kyburz: I guess it's also a bit easier to get started in the D2C space. Also , you can quite easily set up an online shop nowadays. And, I don't know how you did it. Did you have any tools or, providers that you used that made it easier for you 

Sebastian Wahl: to set up the web shop?

Remo Kyburz: Yeah. For example, 

Sebastian Wahl: Our web shop is running on, Shopify, which was an awesome tool to get started with because it is very simple in the beginning on how to use it. Also, our products weren't that complex in how we had to show them and so on. And so we needed a very simple web shop with just a lot of information to explain our product and so on.
And we worked with external web developers on that. and , what's nice about Shopify, but I guess is the same for WooCommerce  [00:21:00] and there's some in shop where there's so many of these, these companies yeah, is that they have so many integrations so that, just right away you integrate Google analytics, Facebook pixel and so on, that you can track everything.
And so on so many different tools, like a translate tool and so on for, for a multilanguage website and , that makes it very easy to, get started. And the problem now was, once  the web shop gets more and more complex now also with the subscription model, for example, it gets more difficult and difficult to work with these out of the box systems, like, Shopify.
And, that's a point where we're at right now is thinking of going to a completely, personalized or built a web shop , by maybe Magento or something  that just gives you much more flexibility on how you design and, work with your web shop.

Carl-Philipp: To start with Shopify is a great tool. 

Sebastian Wahl: Also the backend was very, very simple. It integrates with a lot of the little logistics partners and so on. So that was easy to work with. 

Remo Kyburz: And how did you think about shipping the product? Is it just like in the [00:22:00] last step of the supply chain you work with  a distribution center or how you handle that? 

Sebastian Wahl: So, yeah, right now, as it is right now, and we, we have something different plan than for the future, but as it is right now, we have one distribution center in Germany that has , an integration into our access to our, Shopify backend. So as soon as an order comes in.
They see that order and work off the order, send it out, and then automatically fulfill the order. So we have nothing, to do with that anymore. So there's no room for errors or anything. 

Remo Kyburz: It's cool though. You can kind of automate this, part. 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. I mean, you also have to track everything because, you always have to see where did those packages go and so on to did everything work well?
Did they pack everything correctly and did you have enough inventory and so on? There's still a lot of checking you have to do, but at least this process is very streamlined now. And, and has, it has no room for hours. Yeah. 

Remo Kyburz: Which company are you working with for the shipping?  

Sebastian Wahl: Right now we're working with Versandmanufaktur.

Remo Kyburz: Yeah. Because I once looked a little bit into that. And I find that at least in [00:23:00] Switzerland, hard to find. 

Sebastian Wahl:  It is very difficult. And that's something cause we have a lot of Swiss customers now. And, and sending from Germany to Switzerland is not very difficult but tedious.
And it is, there's cause you have to fill out these,  "Zoll" forms and so on. And, it just takes a lot of time and also costs a lot of money. So we're thinking about, of, of, of having a logistics partner here in Switzerland and, our search has been pretty difficult so far cause it is very expensive here.

Remo Kyburz: And now we already talked a bit about your tips and what you're using at mybacs. Are there any other resources or tools or books that you found very helpful for building up the company? 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. 

Carl-Philipp: So generally, you really need to read a lot and stay up to date, apart from books or where come to later.
But websites like techcrunch, for example, Gründerszene, and all those podcasts, really help you to stay up to date and to understand how the market works. Because in today's world, it changes so frequently. [00:24:00] And apart from that  I read the obvious books, like for example, the lean startup, the $100 startup, and those are great things.
But I think the biggest takeaway is to always stay up to date and really know how the market evolves. . And also the congresses we went to always have a lot, stay in touch, 

Sebastian Wahl: Staying in touch with other founders as well. Cause there's the whole space changes so fast that it's very important that you stay in touch with other people in the same field, same area about new learnings they had and things they saw change over time and so on that that's very important.

Remo Kyburz: And now with mybacs, what is your vision, where are you going with this company? 

Carl-Philipp: So it really is, see our product as international so they can, they can be sold globally. And that's where we, we're going to expand, to some more European countries in the beginning of 2020.
So just, six weeks from now, that's all set up and, can be started. And [00:25:00] as I said, in mid 2020, we plan to go to the United States and sell our products there because, as already mentioned, the market is way bigger. And, yes. And that's also accordingly to, how many people we want to hire.
So there eight more people coming in the beginning of 2020 and, yes. our vision is to, to build, global research driven D2C brand, which i s focused on the human microbiome and gut health products. And, w maybe one more, exciting thing is that in the beginning of 2020, we're going to launch an application, for iOS and Android, which helps people who are in all subscription to track their progress.

Sebastian Wahl: We are very excited about that because. that gives people a tool to actually track on how well they're doing with our product and to see, whether, it makes a difference and so on. Cause sometimes if you don't track something, it's, it's very difficult to tell afterwards.
Did I really feel different than I did before? and with a verified questions that we worked on with, , medical doctors to, [00:26:00] actually assess. what is the use of our product and do people feel a difference is very important to us. Yeah.
 And also, then to use this tool to give people a more and more personalized approach to also, further supplements that are, that are useful for their diet and how their whole behavior is and their activities they do and so on. What, might be important to them. 

Remo Kyburz: Yeah. I think there is quite a lot happening in this personalized supplement space. There's a few companies that's have a product based on your bloodwork or something. They get personalized supplements. 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. I mean, this is the trend in medicine right now, these more and more personalized approach for, for everything they do. 

Remo Kyburz: Yeah. And where do you see which of your product is the most, favorite one of the customers so far?

Carl-Philipp: It depends a bit, there are actually two different markets for the trial product. Obviously. You have the customer like once or twice a year when he travels to those high risk travel travelers diarrhea regions and the other products is really focused on daily wellbeing. So obviously the market for our dailybacs is way bigger than for the travelbacs [00:27:00] ,but  when we really saw we love our travel product because it's so innovative and there's absolutely no other product in the market. And customers really like the traveler product because of  this ingenuity. And we really saw a huge spillover because we launched the travelers product first and then many of our existing customers, they were happy with the travelproduct and saw it's helped me during my travels and now I should try the daily bacs for my overall wellbeing and for my daily gut health. 

Remo Kyburz: Cool. And when I use the travel product, for example, how much in advance would I need to use it? Just for the listener to understand. 

Carl-Philipp: So usually we recommend to start on your first day of traveling. When you get into the airplane, you should start for the first five days of traveling, and then the bacteria settles in, your gut can grow through through the inulin we have in it. And then you will be protected for the rest of your journey. 

Remo Kyburz: Amazing. Very cool. yeah, thanks already for sharing all of that information. I would now like to switch gears a little bit to just get to know you [00:28:00] a bit better as a people and founders of this company. So I always like to ask the guests what their favorite knowledge, resources and books are, for example it does not need to be entrepreneurship related? 

Carl-Philipp: Okay. I think both of us watch a lot of YouTube. 

Sebastian Wahl: There's, I mean, right, and right now there's so much good content on YouTube, and then so many actually very professional channels as well that you can watch.

Carl-Philipp: Yes, I really use YouTube, not essentially for entrepreneurial stuff, but more to broaden my mind and to example channels, like Real Engineering and, Wendover Productions, who really tackle issues, which you always wanted to know more about, but don't really read about it. And then it's always good to, to watch those small videos. And then, I. like basically every day I listen to podcasts. Most of them are entrepreneurial focused, but some of them not.
 And books, it depends if you have time to read a book. I really think , I'm going on holiday [00:29:00] now four or five days, and really planned to read a book there, but in the daily life, it's really getting harder because you come out of the office at like midnight and then you have like 45 minutes or so, until you get to sleep and then it's getting harder to, really get into a book.

Remo Kyburz: Yeah, I fully understood it. Do you have any favorite books Sebastian ?

Sebastian Wahl: For myself, as Carl-Philipp mentioned, very useful for, maybe before you start a startup as is the $100 startup, or Resilient startup. Yeah. Great. Great books. . 

Remo Kyburz: When you're not working on mybacs, do you have any interesting hobbies that are unusual?
That you do in your free time to decompress from the stressful startup life? 

Carl-Philipp: I have one huge hobby that's football, soccer, playing and watching. Both of it. And yeah, that's, that's my big thing. 

Remo Kyburz: What is your favorite club?

Carl-Philipp: FC Bayern Munich. I hope I won't get unpopular now, but yes, it's my favorite club. I watch [00:30:00] every game and also play a lot of football myself. 

 Sebastian Wahl: I love the mountains. I love skiing in winter and hiking, and then in the summer. Yeah, 

Remo Kyburz: Switzerland is a great place for that. 

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah, absolutely. 

Remo Kyburz: And do you now looking back, since you started the company, is there anything, you have that you would do different ?

Carl-Philipp: So overall, you always expect that everything goes very fast and everything takes longer than expected. Starting with fundraising. Hiring takes so much of your time. Then what we underestimated a bit in the beginning is how important the team is for the success of a company. And it's the crucial factor, the most important factor for, for every company.
If your team is good and your product is not shitty, your company will succeed. And one more thing is don't underestimate administrative work. So  especially as a founder in the beginning, when you don't have somebody as like an [00:31:00] office manager, for example,  who does all the administrative stuff, it's, takes lots of time and don't underestimate 

Remo Kyburz: Apart from mybacs, any career advice to someone, you know, in their early twenties or that is now finishing their bachelor or master's degree. Someone who might be interested in doing the entrepreneurship route.  

Carl-Philipp: So, well obviously do it if you're interested in it and don't go for the money. Cause there's so many friends of mine who really went for the money and there. Focused on the money that they lose  the actual focus on the actual, work.
And I think that's a very hard model to succeed. So if you're good at something and you have fun at something and you really like getting up in the morning and the money would come eventually. Especially look at what you have fun at. And if this is founding a company, then do it. And if you can assemble the right team and, there's a market for it, rather do it earlier than, than later in your life. 
[00:32:00] Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. Also, if your company is something that helps people and makes the world a little better place than it was the day before, or the year before, or 10 years before, then, definitely do it because that's what lets you sleep at night. Right. To think you actually made a difference in this world. 

Remo Kyburz: My last question is related to the name of this podcast. The Leap Takers podcasts. So what does courage mean to you? Related to entrepreneurship or life in general? 

Carl-Philipp: Generally. be fair, especially when you're a founder. Be fair to your team members, to your team in general. Assist others, especially when they're new on the job and when they're new on. On the topic and they maybe don't know the product too well as it was in our case. It really takes some time and, yes. I would say to, to put it in a nutshell, to, assist others and to look after your team and your customers obviously.

Sebastian Wahl: Yeah. And also, courage for me. don't be afraid to, say something or speak up. If you say, if you think there's, there's, [00:33:00] injustice or anything going wrong or so on, open your mouth and, and say you think , and, don't let others, rule over what, your thoughts are. 

Carl-Philipp: Especially, when you're getting anything in your  task, for example . From your boss,  you always have to question this task because if you just will execute what he's told you to, it won't necessarily be the best because maybe he told you something wrong. You really need to question everything and speak up  if you think it's not right. 

Remo Kyburz: Yeah, I liked it a lot ! Question everything is a very valuable, concept of having.  

Sebastian Wahl: And I mean that's what makes a startup, right?  A startup questions what is the status quo or what is being done now and, tries to change something.

Remo Kyburz: Perfect. Well, thank you so much guys for coming on the podcast. 

Carl-Philipp: Thank you. 

Remo Kyburz: Yeah.  Do you any last words? Anything you wanted to share to the audience before we wrap up? 

Carl-Philipp: Well, stay tuned for 2020, maybe one on mybacs products come in and, yes. thanks a lot for today. 

Remo Kyburz: Cool. Yeah, I'll link [00:34:00] to everything that you mentioned in the show notes as well.  And then good luck to you and your journey of my bags. 

Sebastian Wahl: Thank you. 

Remo Kyburz: Alright, everyone, thank you very much for listening to today's episode. You could do me a really big favor if you quickly head over to iTunes or Apple podcasts and give the leap takers podcast a five star rating. This will really help me to get more visible and that I'll be able to continuously bring on great guests to this show.
So thank you very much. In addition, I'm also happy about any type of feedback that you might have or ideas for future guests and the questions you would like me to ask them. So if you have any ideas, just shoot me a message. You can find all my podcasts episodes as well as my contact details on leaptakers.com or you can also just follow me on Twitter and Instagram.
Where you should be able to find me under Remo Kyburz. Next to the podcast, I also started writing. Blog posts on the Leap Takers website. So there I write about various topics, be it [00:35:00] about investing. entrepreneuship, traveling or just some new cool products that I tried. It's all there. So check it out if you like.
Having said that, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Stay curious and I hope to catch you next time.