LeapTakers Podcast - Gonzalo Sanchez Remo Kyburz: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the leaf takers podcast. I hope you and your families are doing well in these crazy times, first of all, so despite everything going on though, I'm happy to bring you a new episode today of the leaf takers podcast, where I'm interviewing daring European entrepreneurs, investors and shapers from various fields. So retrace the journey and to discover the insights, tips, tricks, and tactics they gathered so that you too can take the leap. My guest today is Consalvo or guns. As he calls himself. He runs and writes, see table one of the leading newsletters focused on European tech and the startup scene here in Europe. He puts out an analysis about a particular topic every Friday along with the most important news and funding rounds happening in Europe right now. I absolutely love his writing and always look forward to getting his newsletter every week, so I'm very happy he decided to came on the show. C table is read by tens of thousands every week, and his work has been featured in wired and sifted, for example, in addition to seat table, Gonzalo is also head of growth acrobatics UL and Estonian relocation service for tech companies, and he's mentoring startups in his free time as well. Gonzalo all works fully remote, which means he's not bounced to one place or office. In today's episode, we cover a lot of topics. For example, practical tips for remote work and working from home, which is very useful in these times, how consoler started C table, the origin story. Then we cover what makes a successful newsletter and advice and how to grow your own content. And finally, we also talk about the impact of code 19 on the startup scene in general. So as always, before we get started, I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes. Here it goes, discipline equals freedom. This is a quote from Choco villain, and having said that, let's get started with today's interview. Hi Consolo. Welcome to the live tech is podcast, and thanks a lot for taking the time today. , I think you're based in Argentina. Maybe you can tell us a bit about that later. but maybe first of all, briefly introduce yourself and what you're working on for people that don't know you yet. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:02:10] Yeah. So, well, thanks so much for having me run. , it's, it's a pleasure. , so as I said, my name's . Um, I'm originally from Argentina based, , in Barcelona by the gods stuck here, , before, uh, 19. , so I've been. , just hide in a way, , in my place back home earnings, you know? , I'm the founder on writer for a seat table table, a newsletter that analyzes, uh, you were up on its impact, , on site. Remo Kyburz: [00:02:39] Okay. Very cool. And I exactly, that's how I, you know, heard about you because I was a reader for a while now from C table, and I can already tell here it's highly recommendable. , but I think a good place to start is, . I think you built up your, , I mean your, your newsletter and also what you're working on full time. It's, it's all remote. And given , the current circumstance with the Kobe 19, , crisis, I think remote work is becoming more and more a thing. . Could you tell the audience a bit about, , how you view remote work and how you are working typically as, as a, you know, for C table and for the companies that you're working on? Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:03:19] Yeah, absolutely. So, , I mean, working remotely for the bust Felipe, six or seven years, so, , for awhile it's, it's definitely not new for me. . We all work has been slowly growing with a bus a decade. I've always been, , very, very bullish on this, both on a personal side and from us. Mmm. Impact on technology as a side site. So what I do a thing is that a COBIT 19 is going to, , strongly accelerate this, , the same way like this. This is a trend that's already, , happening. It's a trend that's been going on for a while, but so the rated the same way, like Lyndsey, well, world war two accelerated the D. Rice of a women in the workplace that you asked. So I try to also read the happen in a single event where we're true, , really pushed it forward. Same here for remote work and go it, , 19 we are seeing, , most companies, , go promote. , enough to this, I don't think it's going to be that easy for those companies with those CEOs to tell people to just go back to the office. , but I think it's, I think it's a, it's definitely a good thing on my end. Yeah. I mean, working remotely for the bus, , six, seven years, I mean, really, , worse for me. , it's working remotely. It's a skill, I think. , and I managed to find a few tricks that help, , grow the years. Remo Kyburz: [00:04:52] Nice. And you said you worked already remotely for a few years and it's probably not for everyone as well. Maybe you need a certain personality type as well, or how do you view that? , is it really mainstream a possible that everyone would work remote. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:05:09] I have, it's going to be fully mainstream. Meaning all companies are going remotely, as is said. I think that there were certain personality types that are more suited to remote. Another set are more suited to just office, , work. , but I. I do think many companies and many people just work in offices because that's what they've been doing for the bots. , 50 or 60 years. , there wasn't a recent change that on not on right now. There is a, well, surely. Decent reasons to do it. , so I have a thing that's going to be fully mainstream on the only option, but I will definitely see a big, big rise in companies working boldly and of course, the, the entire ecosystem that supports those companies, tools and everything. , for instance, I've been writing quite a bit that one of the biggest opportunities right now, , that I see in European technology. , is, , building those ones infrastructure that supports or sustains a remote work, , for, in the sense hiring people remotely, finding people remotely doing the paperwork, , payroll, all that stuff. it's a pain in the ass on whoever builds that solution, takes it to market. There's a huge opportunity there. Remo Kyburz: [00:06:25] Yeah. , I fully agree with you there, and I mean, you can see it already in the crazy share price developments of companies like zoom, , that. There is definitely demand for that. the reason I asked you this question is because now so many people are forced to work remotely for the time of this crisis. And you, I would say as a, someone who did it for several years, that you have, might have a few tips or tricks for people that you know, how to be more productive or what are your best practices. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:06:54] Yeah, absolutely. So that's the right question. , and hopefully this is helpful. So a bunch of people listening to right now. So, , the first thing for me is so set up our routine. So that routine, , it starts with me. I wake up, up some coffee, , read for an hour or two, and then, , what I do is I get ready for work. I see if I will. Like I'd be going to an office, like I get fully dressed, , and I started working just as usual. , what do you think for me is I keep my phone airplane mode until around noon, , where I get the bulk of the work. , then those couple of, , very important things that you gotta get done each day. , so I start with a routine, , stores would, making sure that. Sort of your mind knows that you're working, , not just in your pajamas watching Netflix. , so whatever. Okay. , rules, you can set that in place to, , Mark that separation between work on just what was the rest of your life. It's helpful. So setting work hours for, in a sense, or working from a very specific room that it started your bedroom or just. Fully change or don't have your phone lying around. All those tricks are, have been super helpful to me. , yeah, I guess, , make sure that you really have a comfortable remote setup. , and this is very important cause I've even seen people, , just taken, , that are now working moly. Taking the opportunity to work from their beds or their couch. And that's definitely not a good long term solution. It might work. For a few days. If you want to work from your bed, , for the next five years, then. Your box is not going to be super happy about it. And then you're going to start having trouble separating, , work on life. , because your mind won't know if you're actually slipping working leg. What are trying to do? Like one of the other worlds, I tried to live for this and this. I didn't take my computer to bad. , I have an Apple TV whenever I want to watch Netflix or whatever, but I don't ever take my computer or my phone so bad. So having those, that segmentation has been super helpful to me. Any cool trips that you've found yourself working remotely? Remo Kyburz: [00:09:07] , I personally have not really worked remotely before this crisis, but I always really kind of wanted to try it out, or I think I personally would really like to work in a setup where you can work fully remotely and so far, , I mean, I'm still experimenting, but I'd like to also have a routine. I mean. Dress normally, I don't wear your challenge. I do the same thing. I just dress like almost like it would to work. And then I still have my fixed routine. You know, I, get a tea or something in the morning. I sit in front of my computer at pretty much fixed time and then I start working on that to a quick lunch break. And I also try to be done at a certain time and then I'm still checking my emails from time to time, but I'm not going back on say the work laptop. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:09:55] yeah. Totally. Yeah. And this'll look like silly suggestions about a, they work. , at least they work for me and for my friends and coworkers who work remotely. They do work. Remo Kyburz: [00:10:08] Yeah, and I mean, what really appealed to me with the whole remote work thing that now is unfortunately not possible, but that you can work from anywhere and you could just, you know, live in a different city every couple of months or years. And, , . So I think Antonio did. I think you lived in a Milan before and some other cities, so were there any places that you really liked Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:10:34] I definitely took advantage of that. , I live in Dallas. , I lived in Milan. , I lived in . , I lived, , Warren saloon in Barcelona. . And I also traveled around quite a bit. So I definitely leverage remote work. So I spent a month in Japan a couple of times, , travel around Europe, Singapore, Hong Kong. So, , yeah, that was a big part, , of my life up until 20, 20, , early 2028 he decided to. Sort of hit pause on the whole traveling, , and start taking a big, , better care off of myself. , well I thought it was pretty good timing. , even that right now I want to be, that's really trouble. , one of my favorites, well, probably my fear would say the world is, as far as, , it's not a great city to work remotely. Oh. . It's a great city to visit, some live in. , but not to work remotely. Probably my favorite city for working remotely would be, that's an interesting question, but probably Singapore. , I really enjoyed my time over there. . I don't really have a good explanation on why, but rather it's a small city. It's super easy to walk around or to travel, , with the Metro, with the subway. , there are a bunch of coffee shops or ranch or work spaces. , like everything works. It's a good place to spend some time in. , so I think that's my fear would say it's where remotely from a what a Cyrus. It's, it's really cool as well. . I do like the mix of European heritage and just the Argentinians slash South American craziness. So bona says to Ray, say, just very moly. It's, it's affordable, but it's also insanely fun. so. Remo Kyburz: [00:12:22] Cool. And since we are now in, in Argentina, maybe it is a good moment to go a bit back in the end time and, , kind of put some light on what you really, what got you started, , because I think you worked for a few startups or you started a few startups yourself in the past. And so how would you say, did you become interested in technology and entrepreneurship? Was there any moments that kind of defined this for you or that kicked everything off. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:12:54] Yeah. I'm not sure if there was a specific, , moment, . , so I started in high school. I built a websites are grow them and then flip them. So sold them. That was my first sort of, . The, with the whole internet marketing thing. So right now I'm Adolfo fighting for six table. I do, , both, , I run the growth team for a tech company here in Europe. , so that, that was, , how I started internet marketing when I was in high school. . That's where I got the first days off technology. And just to be honest, when I was 16, when minor to me was, , gosh, I got some bad gosh from, from flipping websites. Right? , then, , and this were, , I went to college, , to study architecture. , I started, I started that for a few years. I still really enjoy architecture, but I dropped out in a real life. That's what I wanted to do. Life, , technology and building companies and helping companies grow. , I really missed , my days of just building stuff. , that's when I sped, , a DTC, , Brian here in Argentina with a couple of friends. , Bob, one. Did C wasn't even, , cool. , so we raised a bit of money. I started working, , and that was, I'd say, a semi success. , I do that small exit. , I sold my sort of my shirt suit too. Partners are the time, , because they wanted to, to go do something else. , and currently we were in a disagreement. They wanted to keep the company smallish. , I wanted to raise money and go back so. I started a company solos, a soulmate moisture suits my partners, and then I started another company. , that company took me to the U S and it's been, this was a turning point for me. , we applied to an accelerator called, , the Brandery was one of the top 10 on the time. That was in Cincinnati. That's a small, small, smallish city in Ohio. So the, the U S Midwest, a very, very interesting place to live. , so we moved the entire team over there, spent some time. Ultimately, the business failed and I was the translation marketplace. . Gotcha. That everyone who knew . Two or more languages could be a translator, sort of like Uber for translation. And that really played to my strengths because they've had experience with startups and and I speak four languages. So that's sort of that, that the mission really resonated with me. The company ended up going, . Nowhere as far as sadly, but at that point, I was just hooked. , when the started for this year for a bunch of different companies, and well, now I'm here, , six years later. Remo Kyburz: [00:15:40] Okay. Wow. , I just wanted to touch on one point you mentioned at the beginning about the website flipping. , how does this really work? I'm just curious. Like you just buy a website and kind of make it better or, or I have no idea. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:15:54] Yes, absolutely. So, , I haven't done this in probably 12 or 13 years at this point. , but what I did is I either I found a niche, , and that could be anything, , and either bought a website on flipper. , growing up mostly via organic traffic, so SEO and then sold it for more than I bought it, or, all right. Have created the website from scratch. , so it's like typical internet direct marketing tactics for that, unless that's where I sort of learn, , sort of the foundation, , for what I do now. So it's, it's so poorly assembled, bro. , I was dying to get rich. , that was in the goal either. I just wanted, I know it's learning staffing, so that's some, gosh, I know. I wasn't teenager. Remo Kyburz: [00:16:45] Yeah. I mean, I think it's to think about that much in the future then, but. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:16:52] not at all. Remo Kyburz: [00:16:53] Okay. Well, it's interesting how, you know, this kind of kicked everything off. , you mentioned the, the startups that were like semi-successful or the one that failed, and I believe you probably can draw a lot of, , important, , learnings from that experience. So do you have any, you know, key learnings that you would say, okay, that's really something that I would, you know, do different now, or that I would give someone as an advice. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:17:22] Yeah. So the first one is, , cake. . Call founders very carefully, , not because you like them or you going to her, but just make sure that everyone's in agreement, , regarding what you want to do with a company. Like what's the plan? Do you want to start like a boutique, small, bootstrapped. SAS company or do you want to go raise money and try to, Mobic goes. Those are fundamentally two very different paths. So that's one thing, big clue who your father is very carefully and make sure that everyone's in agreement on what you're trying , to do a set number one thing, because you're going to spend five or 10 years with that person. And if you're, . Not aligned from the start, then you're sad. You're like, you're setting yourself up for failure. , the second thing, and this is, I'm not even sure if I should mention it, but the main thing here is talk to your users. , that's, it's cliche, like everyone says it, but it's true. At the end of the day, it's, it's true. . We did it a lot for the VTC run. Audi was in terms of . Sort of growth, , fairly successful at losing Argentina. , but what we failed to the way to for the other company, , , whenever, so, , I'd say those sort of things are the main ones. I third one, , that it's not really about companies per se, but really whatever you're trying to do is. Tried to figure out what's your edge, like what's your personal edge, why you should start out company, why you should do that thing or why you're different or better than the rest or what we are, intersection of skills and interests we have and try to exploit, , that. , so it tries to find her edge and leverage your edge. Remo Kyburz: [00:19:11] Hmm. And do you have any insights on, you know, picking the cofounder or how you actually, I mean, you mentioned some things, but I mean, I'm not sure if, if you have an opinion on it, but, well, do you think there are great tools right now to, you know, find someone to start a company with you or to kind of filter who could be a good, , co-founder. , Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:19:34] I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask that question. Remo Kyburz: [00:19:38] That's fine. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:19:40] no, no, no. That's my, I do have a sort of. , an okay answer here or at least at place to start. , I'm not sure I'm the right person cause they haven't found my sort of money perfect call fondling much, , just yet. That said, if you want it to. If you think you want to start a company, you don't know to start a co founder, then , I'll probably go check at your better first. , central runner first is, , tolerance, , investor. , you apply, , you guys would program the promise, sort of structured in different batches in different locations, and they just get to a group off. I don't know, 50 to 60 a hundred. Very smart people. , who don't have a company. We don't have an idea. We won't go have a co founder and they sort of stress, they put them in different groups, stress test them as Scott Foreman. . Sort of teams. , and at the end of the front round, , you got to find the, find the team. You got find the, find the idea. , I'd see if that takes you somewhere. , and it might seem , sort of the typical assumption is that you really need to know, . Your co founder, , cause it should be a friend and colleague or someone you worked very closely with. , but they, or would they think is that, , they have this country. And so have a date that actually, if you're not a co founder, , very well, , it's not good for you. It's not good for you because. You don't know when to quit. Whenever you don't know someone and you cut a bunch of you for an options on your, the program is putting you through all this, like stress. Then what it though you change like teams of cofounders all the time until you find someone that had real, real, real sticks. , and I'm not even sure I'm doing, , like F . Justice would my explanation, but it's, if we're looking for a co founder, that's definitely right place to start. Remo Kyburz: [00:21:37] Well, it's very interesting that you mentioned he F because actually just, , over lunch today, I was listening to a podcast with, , Matt Clifford, the founder of entrepreneur first, and he exactly mentioned what you just said. So, , it's quite interesting. And maybe that's also why I was thinking about this question in the back of my mind. , yeah. Interesting. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:21:58] I ain't come up with answers to be honest. I'm just trying to recash , with mud dust. , he, what if my favorite, , seat table editions is my interview with when my, , we discussed this at length. I think it's sort of very interesting, , sort of try and take, , and if think it's working or the numbers, the numbers say that it's working so far. Remo Kyburz: [00:22:21] Okay. I will definitely let them link. , this, , addition of seat table to the podcast notes. And actually since you mentioned seat table, I wanted to switch gears on. cover that I think very important part, , that I was very interested in in this conversation to learn how you started C table and you know, what you are trying to do with it and how you grew it to now. I believe it's probably one of the best newsletters for entrepreneurship in Europe. , so, it's difficult where to start, but maybe let's just start at the beginning and how did you come up with the idea and why did you start C table. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:22:58] Well. So, , I was living in bars at the time, but I had to go back toward, in Tina for a couple of months to take care of some personal stuff. , well, I was. , well here, while I was in Argentina, I realized several and missed, , texting in Europe. , so I decided what's the best way to stay in touch with them, maybe just write about them. So I started writing, , I launched, , so I quickly coded a landing page, , slapped a MailChimp form, , on that and just call it a day. , at first. . I'm sure it was my, I just have two friends, but then I wrote this piece on, but by acquiring Gimlet media, which is a studio, and how that was going to. It sort of impacts European technology on the cobalt Gustin space. , and that piece, , started getting some traction, , and a bunch of subscribers and that, , got me the initial momentum I needed to really take this seriously. , that was, I'm not sure if late 2017, early 2018, but after that, I just haven't stopped. So that's where we started. Remo Kyburz: [00:24:09] And just one question, do you know why this piece got so much traction or over which channel? , , you gained attraction. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:24:17] Yeah, so it's mostly word of mouth on Twitter, on LinkedIn. I don't know why. , they got, , so much structure might take is that. It had the novel, an interesting approach. , so I was arguing that, , Spotify and buying him LED's was akin to what Google was doing when they created an AdSense. So this, like. Advertising podcasts. It's a great opportunity, but it's really fragmented. You've got the, you got to have a bunch of one on one conversations with all the shows, which is how the internet worked before AdSense and ad words gave me right and have like one single sort of odd dashboard controlled or had access to millions or millions and millions of searches. still works that way. , on what Spotify. Put up with that position is they could create sort of this AdSense or podcasting. So just one central platform where you can advertise, , tool and every podcast, that was roughly my take, which was something that no one was talking about. And I guess, , it generated some attendance list in small niches. . But this definitely ain't go viral, and I'm not saying that they generated the momentum. I need it. , just, , keep going. Remo Kyburz: [00:25:45] okay. And, , I think I'm just curious because I always, you know, wonder how this, I mean, there's so many websites out there and kind of how do these pieces that are very, you know, very good content. , I think some of them get lost and some of them kind of make their way up, , and get shared. And it's very hard to find the pattern or why this happens or which ones get up there. I dunno if you have a view on it, but it's probably just, , it's a bit of luck. Word of mouth and putting in the right channels. Maybe. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:26:17] Okay. Yes, there is definitely. Huh. Luck involved, but you can definitely put the work on your end to try to maximize that luck. , so if you, how does an audience, if you ride interest in stuff, if you're authentic, like those things are right foundation. , I think you've got to actually manufacture it a bit for the sentence. . Like, that's why people build lists. For instance, a hundred, whatever. And I though to myself, like a hundred tech companies in Barcelona, for instance, then you can start money from transcendence. And traction is a people like, so we featured in those lists. It's like an ego stroking, , septic and they share it. Cause of course they like being on those lists, but that's not the. I don't think that's right away either. Right. I prefer my actual didn't. Remo Kyburz: [00:27:18] Yeah, fully agree. And then the quality and the content needs to be crate and needs to be worth reading and that you actually learned something and can take something away from it. , for me it was a, personally, this is the, , I mean the main, , reason why I would share something and. Why would we would spend my time on something? Yeah. I'm still, I wonder, do you have any take on what makes a great, , content producer today in today's world, , like not only someone who writes a newsletter like yours, but also in a flogger or a blogger or a podcaster. You mentioned authenticity, but maybe you have other, you know, characteristics that you think are important. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:28:02] Yeah, so I'll, this is definitely one. So I think it's worth, we mentioned it. The second one is, , consistency. . the wind, the sand fame every day or every week, , as a function of doing that, you'll get a better, like no matter what. , so. Consistency. Authenticity. Something I also mentioned is, , before we, and I think it's even more important with gardens and creation, is try to find your edge or your personal monopoly, whatever that is, , that we are intersection of skills where you are actually or class that, , perhaps who are not the best, , marker on New York. Nod the best. , I know. Botanists, but when you intersect those two things, perhaps you're the best marketing. Lots of this space, I don't know. Yes. run them weird things we are. And the more things you intersect, the better it is. And the thing about the internet is there a new, there's an almost infinite number of people on the internet. So yeah, that's a matter how niche, , you are. You can always reach a decent number of people who are interested in the same stuff that you are. So the like the internet rewards, very, very niche and very, very weird stuff. So he just, , sure. I would that add short personal monopolies, embrace it and try to reach people who are interested in that. That's the third thing. And for me, a fourth thing that's very interested in this. There's a writer called David Pearl who has this idea that you guys start from abundance. So in my case, it's never started from a blank page, but rather, , start from notes, from information, from an outline, from quotes, from something. , so whenever you start from a blank page, , at least for me, like the resolve is not gonna be as good as if I started with an idea or a bunch of IBS or, or something else. So start from start for some things. I'm not sure how that blinds to, let's say login, , but at least if you're a writer, definitely, definitely will that. Most of my time is not writing about consuming an organizing information. Remo Kyburz: [00:30:19] and actually, how do you, , separate, or how do you manage to have a job? , and then have this as a side project, . I'm not sure if you, if it's still only side projects he table, but , kind of. How do you bet? Separate these two things and also maybe as a tip for other people that want to start something on the side. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:30:37] , cool. , I don't have a lot of friends. No, I'm just kidding. , , that's a, that's a good question. So, , I've managed to find our routine, but as I said. , a big part of CTO for me is consuming and organizing information. , and starting from abundance. When I write and I consume and organize information, regardless of the fact that I still see the table, like I've been reading and taking notes on and just building a, sort of my second brain for four years, like even before, , Tiago forte. Coined the term second brain. , so I've been doing that for years. It's part of our routine. As I said, I start my day every day. . With, . Would reading, I read for at least an hour every day. , I leave, I read a lot on the weekends. I take notes, , like transcribe my notes, , from flash cards or from pages to Rome. I'm missing a tool called Rome for this. , so that's, that's the one key thing. There are a lot of things I do that I've been doing it for a while now. , that said, I think being effective as being key for me. . And I don't mind hard work, to be honest. I work quite a bit. , I spend, I do work on my sort of day job more than a regular person would work when I have a job. But I also spend quite a bit of time on the sea table. But that's, it goes, I like it. I really enjoy it. So I can say have a for this, but I think the answer is that whenever you. Are really interested in something, you'll find the way to, . If you think you one of those something, but you're still, , on your couch watching Netflix, and you probably should ask yourself if you really want that, that bot or not like I any, if you don't, it's fine. , but perhaps having an honest conversation with yourself, a lot of what you want and what you don't want, yes, you should do it. And it's not easier. Or, . But yeah, if you really want to know something, the time to do it. Oh, like actions speak louder than words here. Remo Kyburz: [00:32:40] Yeah. I liked everyone. It's very true. Very true. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:32:45] no, you're doing, you're doing your podcast, right? You have a full time job and you're doing your programs. How do you, how do you find that time? Remo Kyburz: [00:32:52] Yeah. You, you make the time. And it's because it's, it's actually, it's something that interests you. It's fun. And, , obviously, yeah. You, you put it in your free time and then, , but it doesn't feel like work. It's, it's like something you want to do, right? Yeah. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:33:08] Yeah, I was, I was having this discussion with my girlfriend the other day, , and it was trying to like. She was worried that I was working too much on, I was working Saturdays since the table, and like, sit table to start work stable is fun. , like, this is what I wanna do. , like, don't worry about me. , so I don't think she got in though, but Remo Kyburz: [00:33:30] Yeah, I mean, you know, people have different priorities or they like different things, and that's perfectly fine. So, and as he said, you, you need to find for yourself what you value and what you want to do. , . Cool. And I think we didn't even really mention that much yet about CTL itself. So, , could you just briefly describe, you know, kind of what you. I ride the pots typically, and you know, kind of who is reading it, who, who should read seat table. And if there are people in the audience that haven't heard about it, Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:34:01] Yeah. So seek table, , it's a weekly newsletter on European tech. It analyze, says something, , that's going on in tech that week, , on how it impacts companies, societies, ecosystems, , investors. , okay. It goes out, as I said, once a week on Fridays on 9:00 AM central time, central European time. , okay. It's mostly read by, he would be an investors. , funders start out at Blease, , on. The press? I'd say. So that's mostly it. , there are some non European readers, mostly people from, let's say the U S or Russia, but when I were interested in European tech, but if, if you are interested in what's going on in Europe right now, that you should ref, definitely we'd see table. , it's not on use. . Email for that. You got a bunch of different options. You got tagged. Got you. You got you start apps, you've got Steph said. , so if you want to stay on top of what's going on, , like just a regular news since table is not for you. So table like there, my emails are usually two or three hours of words long. , they. Take a deep dive into a very specific topic that's going on that week. It could be a company raising money, a cow that, , industry, , is affecting technology. It could be European regulation, how that affects startups, or it could be, , right now what I'm doing is I'm writing quite a bit about a COBIT. , last of you was. How it will affect the future of hiring a table or being a seat table will be resubmitted for hard work. , so if we're looking for just a couple of bite sized like news, . Bits, it's not for you, but if you want to sort of go the extra mile, then definitely like I lab scribe you as a subscriber. Remo Kyburz: [00:36:00] Hmm. How many people are reading typically, , your newsletter. Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:36:05] Yeah. So we, I have about , it really depends on the month on an ANCOVA is affecting this bed between 50 and 70,000 visitors to my site every month. And then I have, , in the low, , five, , few years, , in terms of subscribers. So, , it's not huge. It's a decent number to rifle every week. Remo Kyburz: [00:36:32] Yeah, I mean, that's amazing. I think it's a great number for, any, , you know, business out there that does like a newsletter or that produces content. So a congrats to that. I think it's very cool. And also I really enjoy reading it. So again, I can just recommend people to check it out. . , , before we close, I wanted to also go a bit into the whole Cove at 19, and the impact on European tech for probably don't have too much time to go deep into it. , I was wondering more also you, I think you do every. And at the end of every year or at the beginning of her year, you do some predictions for what's happening in the next year, and you did that as well for 2020 I'm wondering, do you still stand with, with this predictions or do you think it's, it's all, it's all changed now, of course, with Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:37:17] That was a great way to lose a thousand years. , so I make those predictions, but I, what I do is I put some money where my mouth is. So if I don't hit those for the actions, I donate a thousand years to a charity of my choice, a choice. I, my predictions were around, . Eight, , we were growing as a whole, , B since some consolidation and a couple of industries. . I got that one. Right. So I specifically targeted micro ability, , foot on, , , recruitment marketplaces. , so I got that one right. But for very different reasons. So I, I'm not sure I should success. The third one was, , that friends, , will emerge as a Wiener or it will go like, and I think I got that one slightly right as well, meaning Frances doing their great job, , in this whole COBIT crisis that said, , I would very specific and one to firewall sort of metrics. , sort of, so equity answer, yes or no, or which one of those predictions, , cause you're putting money on the line. I want to be clear as to what I'm putting money against. And I'm not definitely not hitting the numbers. So I, my, my take was that France was going out of base list for bill for billions, , this year. , you have to go with 19 pilot thing that's happening. So . Well, what I knew at the time, yeah, I would've made the same convictions. , , it was a very good way of fluency. A thousand euros. All right. Remo Kyburz: [00:38:50] Yeah, well, at least it goes to good and who knows? Maybe there's a miracle recovery in the Gonzalo Sanchez: [00:38:55] Uh, I, I seriously though that I don't think we'll see the V-shaped recovery that most companies are expecting, , for a bunch of different reasons. But, . Yeah, I haven't, I'm still sort of waiting. , but yeah, , December, I like, I know I would have to donate those, those euros and I'm very happy to do that, to be honest. Remo Kyburz: [00:39:18] , you also put out, I think a list of, you know, different areas or different industries. And how they are affected by code 19. And, , if you don't need to go really deep into it, but where you see really like the, , the big impact happening off of the virus and what are like your key industries. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:39:40] the first thing, , that we need to establish that for me, , the overarching narrative is that COBIT will, , accelerate, , some trends that we, we've been seen for the bus, five words, any words and will completely reverse others. And the example I gave, but also of women. , coming into new work for us, , after, , world war II. , the, some of the industries that are, I think are going to be, , possibly impacted are first, , way like to call the remote economy. , that is a bunch of stuff that's currently going on in the physical world by now. It's what I moved too remote and some of the examples I gave are first. Well, of course your motor work. That's the obvious one. But others are like interactions. Were you right now, like you live in the physical world, why did you do them? Just speak. Gus had been doing them that way for the past 50 years. And a great example is stalagmites. It's conferences or teletherapy. So you can actually interact with a physician or with a therapist, , on Skype, on zoom, or on whatever software you might have, , pay for it, and they can probably, , , treats you a remotely. That's, I think that's a great one. , the other one that I think, , it's, it's not obvious. Well the always one is gaming. side of that is e-sports. , I think is for, it's , or I mean the saying that each sports is the biggest industry. No one is talking about it cause it's only been talked about in like smallest. Niche, , the numbers behind e-sports, the Mujer shade numbers and engagement numbers are just insane. , so I have, uh, we rise with gaming. , there's, will be sort of the thing that tips is sports to where it's mainstream. Remo Kyburz: [00:41:27] Okay. Yup. I, I see that as well. I think e-sports has a great future if you can monetize it as well. Which might be a bit of a challenge still, but, , I think there's great progress being done there. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:41:40] Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. well do you think, like what do you think are the industries there are going to be possibly a negative affect Remo Kyburz: [00:41:48] I also had a few conversations with, , some friends, , about that. I think we should, we share what you, what you just said, but it's also, I think we actually think that some e-commerce, , stores that. To everything online. Or also like, , dark kitchens like that. Restaurants that don't have, , an actual, , you know, restaurant where you can go and eat, but they only deliver. So I think these delivery type of, , companies Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:42:18] I'm very, very bullish or I've been very bullish, , on dark kitchens for, for a while now. I think that's, yeah. This will only outside of any of that. Remo Kyburz: [00:42:28] Yeah. , and there's definitely a few more. , as well, as I said, the whole remote working productivity tools. , I also think some FinTech solutions could actually profit. Not all of them might. It really depends on the sector. . But I think just digital payment overall will, it will increase even more cash as like you touch a physical bank note will not be as popular anymore in the future. I believe. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:42:53] yeah, absolutely. One thing I forgot is. , fitness. So the fitness space, , we've been seeing like hardware companies like Dono or Peloton void. We've seen, , , opps, like for Lytics. , but I think that the main change is going to be that domestic and Melby. , like a two way thing where a teacher or an instructor sort of streams a class. , but on the other side, you got 10, 20, 5,000, , sort of, . Well, it's the right way for this. 100 people just streaming their own workouts, workouts back, , sort of like a zoom call. , and I've been doing that. I've been, I've seen, , that being done right now with CrossFit gyms all over the world. Or they're not only seeing the teacher, like the instructor is stream workup. I'd rather. People are streaming their own living rooms while they work out on everyone, like gets the community aspect out of it. So I think like that's going to happen as well. Remo Kyburz: [00:43:51] Hmm. That sounds amazing. Are there any companies that you know that do that. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:43:55] I don't, to be honest, I really don't, and I've been looking for one, so if anyone knows of one to send them my way. But I, I don't know where I build the software for this, like niche markets, telemedicine teletherapy like two way. , like all that stops. That's a big opportunity there. Remo Kyburz: [00:44:20] All right. , well, I think we are at the end of time. I'm Gonzalo, but, , thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I still would like to ask. The last question I typically ask my guests, which is related to the name of the podcast, so I'm really curious, what does courage mean to you in the sense of entrepreneurship or also life. audio_only_16780290_Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:44:44] Yeah, that's a great question. So. , I like to read this Stilnox , quite a bit. So Seneca Marcus Aurelius epitaph does, and when you put a cartridge in their own sort of, , jurors, , for me, I think courage is the ability of doing something, , where you don't control the outcome, but being completely okay with it. I'm doing it anyway, sort of taking that leap, regardless of whether you can control it. What South towards Remo Kyburz: [00:45:14] Perfect. Well then where can people find more about you? Like, , you've mentioned C table. , I believe it's it table.com. Any, like what is her Twitter handle or where else can people find you if they want to find more about you? Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:45:29] So CFA, welcome. , do subscribe your interest in European tech on Twitter. I'm surely active. It's gone. Sanchez. S a and it'll just link it on the Noah's globe. It's not super easy to spell. Remo Kyburz: [00:45:43] Okay. I will definitely do that, and it's good then as always, , everyone can find all the important things linked in the show notes as well. , of this episode. Thank you very much Consolo and I hope everything goes well with the seat table this year as well, and you still gets good one or two predictions. Right. Gonzalo_Sanchez: [00:46:03] We'll see a lot of that for now. I'll, I'll just start thinking about which charges to an aid to, , so again, thanks for your time, man. It's, it's been, it's been a pleasure doing it. Remo Kyburz: [00:46:12] Okay, great. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode. You could do me a really big favor if you would just tell one of your friends about the leaf takers podcasts and recommended, or if you want to even more quickly head over to the iTunes or Apple podcast store and give the leap takers podcast at five star rating. This would really help me to get more visible and that I'll be able to continuously bring on great guests to this show. Thank you so much. Also, if you have any feedback. Or suggestions for future guests. Just shoot me a message. You can find all my contact info on leap takers.com or you can also follow me on Twitter or Instagram where you can find me on the remote keyboard, or just follow the leap takers podcast directly in Instagram as well. So having said that, thanks again for listening and have a great week. Bye bye.