Alexandra Hughes: Welcome to season three of the ASCA Viewpoints Podcast. The podcast where we talk about the student conduct profession and higher education. I'm Alexandra Hughes, your Viewpoints host. Alexandra Hughes: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the ASCA Viewpoints Podcast. As always, I am your host Alexandra and thank you so much for tuning in. I hope this episode finds you doing well, staying safe, staying healthy. It is the middle of July, it is incredibly hot, my goodness. I'm not going anywhere, I'm not leaving my house. I mean, who am I kidding? I wasn't leaving my house before or all year, pandemic, in case for some reason you forgot. Alexandra Hughes: But we have a special episode today. I feel like I always say that, right? I feel like I always say that this is a special episode. Almost like Oprah, you get a special episode, you get a special episode, everyone gets a special episode, almost like participation points. Oh boy, I have to work on that. But I do think that this is a very special episode and it's the most special of all specialest episodes. Well, if nothing else, it's a little bit different and let's explain why. Alexandra Hughes: So today's episode actually features another podcast. So it's a podcast crossover episode with the NASPA podcast. So NASPA, which is the National Association of Student Personnel Administrators, has the podcast called SA Voices From The Field. And so the host of that podcast, which is Dr. Jill Creighton, was actually the old podcast host for this podcast, ASCA Viewpoints. I know it's a bunch of stuff, it's like a tangled web and a family tree, it's okay. Just work with me here. I will hold your hand through this and we will get through this together. Nevertheless, she hosts that podcast now. I host this podcast now and we wanted to have a dialogue around the topic of dismantling systemic racism. Alexandra Hughes: That is just the conversation that's happening all over. And we thought it would be pretty cool to engage in this conversation together, since typically we're talking to other people and we really don't get a chance to talk an incredible amount and really share our stories or, I don't know, just things that we've been through, right? And so we figured that would be pretty cool to do. It's about a half an hour. We're releasing this episode on both platforms at the same time. So you may be hearing this twice and that's okay. I really, really hope that you enjoy it. So without further ado, let me introduce Dr. Jill Creighton to everyone. That way, you'll know all the amazing work that she's doing. Is the Associate Vice President for student affairs and Dean of students and the Deputy Title IX Coordinator at Washington State University. Dr. Jill Creighton oversees the Center for Community Standards, Housing and Residence Life, the Center for Fraternity and Sorority Life and the Office of the Dean of Students on the WSU Pullman Campus as well as support campus life efforts on all WSU locations across the multi-campus system. Alexandra Hughes: Previously, Dr. Creighton served as the Assistant Dean of Students for Conduct and Operations at the University of Oregon, where she supervised the Office of Student Conduct and Community Standards, the university food security taskforce, and operations and assessment for the Office of the Dean of Students. In addition, she worked at New York University where she led student conduct efforts at 14 global locations across 6 continents. Dr. Creighton has served as the President of the Association for Student Conduct Administration and founded, produced and hosted the first 43 episodes of the ASCA Viewpoints Podcast. Alexandra Hughes: Currently she serves as the NASPA Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education, Region Five Public Policy Division representative, on the Region Five Advisory Board and on the Strategies Conference Planning Committee. She received her Bachelor of Arts in Music from Central Washington University and her Master of Education in College Student Services Administration from Oregon State University. She earned her Doctorate in Public Administration at West Chester University of Pennsylvania. We are so excited to have Dr. Jill Creighton back on the show and we hope that you enjoy this episode, stay tuned. Thank you for having me. Hello. How are you? Jill Creighton: I think we are all living the dream right now. How are you? Alexandra Hughes: I'm good. Well, welcome back to the ASCA Viewpoints Podcast. Jill, the original ASCA Viewpoints host. Jill Creighton: It was such a fun project to start and I'm just unbelievably thrilled that you've taken it in new directions and really continued the equity and inclusion focus that we'd hoped to start with it. And I just love listening to you bring the education to the masses, it's awesome. Alexandra Hughes: Well, I'm just glad, I have to admit, when I took this position and when I was offered the position, I was always just so nervous to start because I was like, "Oh my gosh, Jill has done amazing work." Just to be able to follow in your footsteps and really just keep this conversation going. And so now I'm even excited to be here with you on NASPA, this is so cool. Jill Creighton: Yeah. And so for our listeners, Alexandra and I are doing an interesting crossover episode experiment today. I think it's probably new for both of us in a lot of ways, but the same episode is going to air both on the NASPA SA Voices From the Field Podcast and on ASCA Viewpoints. So if you listen to both shows, you might notice this is in both feeds. Alexandra Hughes: Hopefully people like it and they listened to it twice. I just think you get us twice, which is even better. I'm totally okay with that. Jill Creighton: I just like to think that either folks find the show useful or entertaining, or at least one of those things. Alexandra Hughes: Probably entertaining, I think we're pretty entertaining. Jill Creighton: Oh goodness. Such high standards for ourselves. Well, Alexandra and I really wanted to get together today to talk about the big topic at hand, which is really facing some ugly and often unspoken truths about the profession of higher education. How we're rooted, how we were founded and also what we do now. We really thought it was important to have this dialogue in this context of the renewed civil rights movement that is happening right now, knowing that there is a present social focus on Black Lives Matter and other areas of equity and inclusion. Jill Creighton: Alexandra and I are recording this episode during pride month, and so there's a lot of intersectional pieces that are happening too. But really also just wanting to ensure that we are still talking about this, months from now when the world has moved forward to a different topic, a different focus. We have a major election coming up in the United States and what is becoming closer and closer to us now. But Alexandra has done so much work in her career around dismantling systemic racism and oppression inside of the higher education context and that's why I'm so excited to have you here today. Alexandra Hughes: Oh, thank you. Well, I mean, I think what you're saying is really true, right? And the question is, is this conversation and are people still going to care two months from now, six months from now, six years from now, right? And I know that's definitely that context and that understanding. And I think the reality is if we're going to talk about higher education and talk about the history of higher education, that is rooted in the history of the United States of America. And in understanding that, that means learning and understanding the history of the United States, which unfortunately has some things in it that we may not be too proud of, but we have to talk about it to get people to understand things like systemic racism, equity and inclusion, and really this works. Alexandra Hughes: So it definitely becomes important and as you're talking, Jill, the thing is for us in HigherEd, whether we're in student conduct, whether we're in Residence Life, faculty staff, these roles, we're really functioning in these places of power and privilege and so how are we either implementing the same things or are continuing cycles and systemic cycles, right? Or how are we choosing to dismantle those? And I think that's something that we as practitioners in the field of HigherEd, have to keep at the forefront of our focus every single day. Jill Creighton: So let's back up a second Alexandra. I think the word dismantling is something that we use a lot in higher education, but we very rarely define. What does it mean to you? Alexandra Hughes: That's a really good question. So I think for me dismantling means to break it all down, to tear it down, right? Well, and there's levels to that. Part of it really means to step by step, understand what it is, to realize what it is that we need to dismantle. This word, dismantle seems so, I think just so hard. We have dismantled... Almost when people are asking about defunding. These words aren't saying that we're completely getting rid of it. What we're saying is we have to address the structures that are in place and then figure out how we can work together to basically make the system better. And sometimes it does mean reach or changing or restructuring how we respond to different situations, different questions, different viewpoints, things that may be a part of our system that are impacting our students and faculty and staff in ways that we may not even realize consciously. And I think that becomes important in the work that we're doing every day if we're talking about dismantling. What about you? If you hear dismantling, what does that mean? Jill Creighton: It means a lot of different things to me. And oftentimes I think about how we throw the word out there. Because to folks that have never worked in the equity and inclusion space, it can sound really scary. And what I don't want folks to hear is dismantling as this idea of, your work is invalid, because that's not what we're saying, right? Your work is valid and we need to understand that it is rooted in the systems that were designed to provide privilege for folks of certain identities over folks of other identities. And right now, what we're highlighting in society is an extraordinarily disproportionate impact, negative impact on black and African American people in the United States as well as other marginalized identities. Whether that be other BIPOC or whether that be people of LGBTQQIA plus identity, various socioeconomic strata, ability and disability status, veteran status, you name it. It's so broad. Jill Creighton: And so what it means to me is really that we need to take a hard look at the way that we practice higher education and particularly student affairs and do what we can to stop reifying systems of oppression. For the Viewpoints listeners, you're probably aware. I grew up in the area of student conduct in higher education. That's where the common thread of my entire career has been. And as a person of color and as a person who is dedicated towards better systems of equity, that is a hard space to spend time in when you are essentially looking at systems that are modeled after more globalized systems like our prison pipeline, for example. And again, hard to hear in HigherEd, but we have choices that we can make that do things differently, that make our practices more equitable for students. Jill Creighton: I'll give a call out, shout out, to Dr. Patience Bryant who has her PhD in conflict resolution and she's doing some amazing work at CSU Long Beach. Are we on restorative justice and restorative community healing, which is a different paradigm of approaching sin behavior? That's one way of dismantling a system that may not function well. Alexandra Hughes: Exactly. And I think doing exactly what you just said, just calling it out becomes so important. One of the sessions that I've done at conferences, the school to prison pipeline... Is my office a contributor? The one that I just did last week was, systemic racism... Is my office a contributor? And those are very provocative titles and I understand that, but the reason why I think those titles are important is because it's literally calling out exactly what you just did. And I think we have to change the narrative if we're talking about discipline and if we're talking about this idea of dismantling in a way where I think I put a post up on the Twitter and social media world. And just the other day and it says, "Equity and inclusion are not just passionate areas in HigherEd. There are critical parts of every interaction." Alexandra Hughes: And I think that's what I really want people to understand. I think a lot of times we think of social justice and equity and inclusion as, this is my elective course that I took or this is just a passion area that I have. But in fact, what we need to be able to say is, "No." This is how we need to address every interaction, every conversation. If you are doing something with discipline, right? Then it's a lens through which you need to look through and understand because it's impacting how that student's responding to you, your implicit biases, right? That may be interacting or maybe making a particular viewpoint for that student or whatever that looks like. Dismantling means that, right? Alexandra Hughes: Calling it out and doing what you did as also saying, "Look, this is important. And it's important that we address this moving forward." I don't know if you found this, but oftentimes when I talk to people on the show or different sessions through work, a lot of times we get that question of, "Well, I didn't cause this, I didn't start this." And I say, "Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right." But it's our job to fix it moving forward. And that seems to be something that is a common thread that I've heard and how are we choosing to address things moving forward? Jill Creighton: That is such a critical question because the systems that we operate in higher education are also products of everything that came before us. So we are directly impacted by the K-12 environment, even though a lot of us have no experience teaching or educating in the K-12 space. And one of the things I think about a lot is that higher education in the United States is more or less fairly disconnected from the K-12 experience. And I often wonder what we should be doing to partner with our K-12 educators to look at common threads of education. So one thing that I posted on my personal social media recently was a thought that, I don't ever remember having education about Juneteenth in my K-12 education or the Tulsa riots or even Japanese internment and the trail of tears and all of these moments in our collective history that have not been given the space to breathe inside of our educational systems. Jill Creighton: And so there's a lot of dialogue going on right now about curriculum erasure and other similar topics. And I do believe as the higher education we have an obligation to teach those components of our history. And at the same time, I also wonder why are we waiting until higher education to teach these components of our history? That's also not super helpful in the long run, especially because we know many citizens don't go to the community college or university degree seeking programs after high school's finished. So the systemic components that draw us through from childhood to informed adults has some work to be done. And I think in higher education, in student affairs, especially we have to figure out where that sits. So for you, where does that sit? Alexandra Hughes: It sits everywhere. I think it's interesting because you are absolutely right. We don't get the education and so I identify as a black woman pronounced she, her and hers, right? And so I think part of it is understanding the fact that, people say, "How did you get into this? How do you know all of these things?" I tell people, "I mean, it's been at least 10 years of just researching an education and that's why I know these things because it's my area, right? My passion happens to also be where I'm able to do my research and do my work." But part of it, I think starts with understanding that these unfortunate truths are a real thing in our country, right? And we have to acknowledge that, like you said. And so as a black woman, I was very fortunate that my father actually sat me down at four and showed me video footage of the civil rights movement, showed me video footage of hoses being let out by firemen on people who were marching and dogs and things like that. Alexandra Hughes: And it's unfortunate, right? But it's a part of that, that he was really trying to I think, do what he needed to do to protect me as a black woman in the United States of America. And that in itself is a whole another podcast episode, right? But what that allowed me to do, and this is one of the things that I always like to throw out there. I say, "When were you aware of your race?" Typically as black people or people of color, let's just point that out, period, typically. You're typically aware that you stand out or you're a little different for some reason at a younger age. And it could be that you stand out or it could be in my case. I mean, I was in the second grade when somebody called me the N word and it was another student. And so it was actually a white male student at that time. Alexandra Hughes: And so that awareness for me happened at such a young age. And I often turn around and ask other people if they will think about when that is. And I found that typically for my white counterparts, it was later on in life when they were able to realize or something happened. Sometimes it's these conversations that are happening now, right? Sometimes it was when they first went to college and maybe away from people that look like them or vice versa, right? I think it just depends on everyone's experience. But I think in understanding where that sits and where that conversation sits, a lot of it is also perspective. Alexandra Hughes: And it needs to be everywhere. You're right, our system K through 12 is we're not teaching history in this country and we're not teaching, let's say everyone's history in this country because it's more than just things that happened to black people. It's just all people. What about our indigenous people? What about our different groups like you, Japanese interment camps? That's huge. And those are lessons that I think that we need to have that we're not having. So I think that's where it sits for me as I look into it. So I want to ask you, when were you aware of your race, if you don't mind me asking? Jill Creighton: It's a really fascinating question for me because I have some really unique aspects of my identity and lived experiences that I think make it very different than someone who wholly grew up in the United States. So for our listeners, just a personal couple of tidbits, I think I've mentioned this before. But I identify as a transracial, Asian American cisgendered woman. And I was adopted and essentially very early childhood. And I was born abroad. I was born in Korea, but adopted to a family in the United States that is a wholly white identified. Jill Creighton: And so that has really constructed my racial identity very differently than I think if I had been more of a second culture kid, for example. And then mixed in that I grew up overseas. So I was adopted to the United States before my first birthday, but then my family had a tremendous opportunity through my dad's job to move to the Middle East. So I spent a good portion of my childhood growing up in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. And that is again, a very unique component of my identity, which has completely changed the way that I think about the social construction of race. Because I grew up in this Middle Eastern society culture environments that had different expectations based on gender, based on physical appearance and a number of other things. And the school I attended was at the time called the Saudi Arabian International school of Riyadh, S-A-I-S-R. Jill Creighton: And the school I attended was children of people that worked for embassies all over the world. And so in my class, if I look at my yearbook from kindergarten and first grade and things like that, the physical phenotypical diversity of the students was so tremendous that race as Americans have constructed it was just not part of the dialogue because it was global. I had classmates that were born in Ghana, that were born in Israel, that were born in the UAE, that were born in Saudi Arabia, that were born in the United States, born in England, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So the way that we constructed our relationships with each other didn't have that same common racialized experience that we do in America. That's not to say it wasn't a component of things because it absolutely was. But it meant for me that I wasn't conscious of how my race would be categorized until I returned to the United States. Jill Creighton: And that was not until I was late elementary school. And even then, because of my transracial identity mixed with that international experience, I don't really think I was aware of my race until I was probably 12 or 13 because I just knew that I had dark hair and my mom had blonde hair and my dad had brown hair. So people just had different colored hair. And then the boy in my class had a different lighter skin tone than me, then the girl who I sat next to had a darker skin tone than me. Because I grew up with this large stratification of physical appearances in space, in a different cultural framework, it really does just truly show me how socially constructed racism in America. Alexandra Hughes: Exactly. And that's what I was going to say. Race is a socially constructed thing. That's such a wonderful experience to have. That is so cool, Jill, I learn more and more about you every time we talk, but that in itself just goes to show you how people's viewpoints and the culture and I say this all the time, culture is a lens through which you see the world. And so whenever I give this presentation, I always say the glasses that I wear, I don't wear them to be cute. I wear them because I really can't see, that's a thing. And so the same way these glasses are shaping the world around me, it's the same thing with culture. Alexandra Hughes: And I think that's something that we have to really remember as we have these conversations moving forward. And especially when it comes to education, our students, our interactions and that, because it's where people coming from and what is their experience with that that shapes how they see things moving forward. But it's interesting. And I think part of it is and as I sit here and think about it, you talk about the fact that we have to be aware what's happened in the past. And I think that's the same thing with this conversation. I think a lot of people are under the impression that it was simply and we saw, about a month ago that the world essentially blew up in one day. Alexandra Hughes: We saw two videos come out, but one video of George Floyd in Minneapolis, right? For 8 minutes and 46 seconds, we saw that while he could not breathe. Then what I always talk about is it wasn't just that video but on the same day, there was also another video of Amy Cooper and Christian Cooper, no relation in central park in New York. And the reason why these videos are so important and even understanding the history, I'd really just summarizes the history and what this whole movement is about. Alexandra Hughes: Is that in that video in central park, we have two people like I said, black man named Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper, white woman, no relation. But we see where the world watched in horror as she sat here and told this, man, "I will call the police and tell them that an African American man is threatening me." And he said, "Well, I'm not doing anything. And I have you being recorded." And we watched in horror as she did just that. And she literally weaponized the use of his skin tone. And I mean, if I would have just heard her even as a black woman on the recording, it sounded like she was being attacked. Alexandra Hughes: It sounded like something was happening and her life was in danger. We see the behind the scenes. But I think the understanding and the realization is that that phone call, if it wasn't for his recording, could have resulted in something happening to him like what was happening with George Floyd. And the reason why I bring that up is because people think it's just that one day. And I say, "No." I think it was just the straw that broke the camel's back, right? But these are incidents have been happening throughout history and have happened since then, let's keep that in mind. Alexandra Hughes: People that have died since then, but they've been happening on top of the backdrop of the fact that we are in the middle of a pandemic and I think we forget that at times, but we are. And so the world itself, there's just so much going on and I think people are in pain. But I really love that you talked about the history component because people need to understand it wasn't just that. It was the things before that, that led up to that, that really are impacting what we see now and the movement that's coming about. Jill Creighton: Think there's some really important work happening right now in terms of a renewed commitment towards anti-racism work in our own persons, right? So it's not just an institutional responsibility. It's the responsibility of everyone that works in the institution to do the anti-racism work. And there's an infographic that's floating around. It looks unattributed every time I've seen it so I don't know who developed it, but it's a series of concentric circles and it's a pathway to becoming anti-racist. And it begins in a fear zone and then moves to a learning zone and then moves to a growth zone. And so if we're going to get practical with the colleagues in the profession, there's some attitudinal components to this, which I think are really critical. Jill Creighton: So in the fear zone they're statements like, I deny racism as a problem, I avoid hard questions, I strive to be comfortable, I talked to others who think and looked like me. And then we moved to the learning zone which is, I recognize racism is a persistent and present problem, I seek out questions that make me uncomfortable, I understand my privilege and ignoring racism, I educate myself about race and structural racism, that's structural pieces, what you and I have been talking about. Jill Creighton: I'm vulnerable about my own biases and knowledge gaps and I listen to others who look and think differently than me. And then finally in that growth zone, things like I identify how I might unknowingly benefit from racism, I sit with my discomfort, I don't let my mistakes deter me from being better, I yield positions of power to those who are otherwise marginalized. And one of the things I really appreciate about this graphic is that it is iterative and it is fluid and it also reminds us that being anti-racist isn't an end point. There is no such thing as declaring oneself anti-racist. Jill Creighton: It's really more about how do I frame my perspective of the world using this lens? And how do I focus on internal continuous improvement and understanding the lived experiences of other people? Not to say lived experiences as a buzzword, but really, truly in the phenotypical skin that I present and that I wear, I am a person of color, but I will never understand the experiences of people of other colors in ways other than to say, "I can translate my own marginalized experiences." And I think that for folks who carry more privileged identities than not, this is almost new in some ways. And there's a lot of opportunity for personal work here. Alexandra Hughes: I agree. I actually love that graphic. Actually I've used that graphic and I did the same thing. I'm like, "I don't know who came up with this." I found multiple graphics and I'm always like, "I work in student conduct, I am not plagiarizing, I need everyone to know that. I just don't know who to give the credit to." So that's where I'm just like, "I don't know." But I actually love that and I think that you're right. It's this idea of saying this is a fluid process and it's something that we're constantly working on and constantly moving towards. Alexandra Hughes: And I think we have to understand that all of us hold both privileges and marginalizations and in all aspects. And so there's going to be multiple things that impact us from different directions. You remind me of something. I switched from using the term, I think this was last year, cultural competency to cultural humility. And I actually got that from Kateeka Harris, who's going to be president elect of ASCA next year and Dr. Kyle Williams, who currently is sitting and chairing the equity inclusion at ASCA. Dr. Williams and Kateeka, they actually talked about saying it's cultural humility. And this idea and I've loved it and I've used that everywhere I go. And I say, "Look, we're never going to reach competency. We're never going to fully be there and know, and get there. And that's okay." Alexandra Hughes: But the idea of humility means that we understand that we're not going to get there, we understand that people have these different experiences and different privileges and marginalization, but that we're striving to understand and striving to get it right. And I think that's the part that we have to focus on. No one's going to be perfect. And we need to lean into that uncomfort and not be scared to be uncomfortable. Because let's think about it, these are uncomfortable conversations and they're hard, especially you and I, we have these uncomfortable conversations a lot. This is what we do. We talk, we speak to people. But if someone doesn't really talk about this, then it's like, well, how do we get them to lean into that uncomfort? Jill Creighton: And part of that I think is providing the vocabulary to do so. That's a really critical component of things. There's an Instagram post that I saw the other day that really spoke to me, which was about some of the coded language we use in academia to reify systems of privilege and oppression, particularly around words like grit and words like academic rigor and things like that. And I also hear often folks saying, "Let's give grace." And so while I believe in those things, I also want us to understand that sometimes, not always, but sometimes they are used to really marginalize people, right? So when we say, "Let's give grace." And dialogues on diversity equity inclusion, sometimes folks in privileged positions are asking folks who are marginalized to ignore the pain that is caused by sometimes using language that is really, really harmful or by sometimes even asking hard questions. Jill Creighton: It's a really fine balance in higher education between not putting the work on folks who are marginalized, between creating a shared language and a shared dialogue to actually have these hard conversations. And then also not continually putting people of marginalized identities in positions to be harmed by others. And I don't know how we get that right, I just know that we're still working on it. Alexandra Hughes: You're and I think that's true. I think there's a [inaudible 00:29:47]. I think one of the things that I've found that I've been an advocate of especially recently is pay people of color for their time and experience and work. And I say that and that's easier said than done in HigherEd, right? We know that we're working in higher education it's because we genuinely love doing this work. That's the thing about HigherEd us as educators and we know that. And that in itself is a whole another systematic thing probably, and this country that we need to look at and the idea of educators and that. But, we know that we are in this work because we love educating, we love learning, we love creating and helping shape and molding and hopefully making the next generation better than our generation, right? Alexandra Hughes: And preparing them and equipping them. But part of that, where we can, and I love that you've brought that up because it can be re-traumatizing to people of color to experience. And I tell people. I'm like, "I'm a black woman. This is my lived experience." But you also want me to talk about it as well. That's constantly replaying that and living. And so I often share this. I say, "There are people like me who are very comfortable when I have these conversations. It also takes self work." And I'm sure you can speak to that as well where there's times where I have to step away from it, because it is a lived experience. But to remember that not every person of color or a marginalized identity that you would like to address, right? Alexandra Hughes: We're talking about the fact that we're in pride month, this month, has the ability, the language like you said, or just the emotional capacity to explain to you these things. And that's the part where you have to really be okay with that and say, "That's okay." Luckily, and what I love now is there's so many resources and things and lists that have come out. Whether that's podcasts like our shows or I mean, books, to movies. I mean, there's some great things. I don't know if there's anything that you've seen from any of those lists, whether it's shows or stuff that you've dipped and dive back into that have really excited you or maybe some new things that you've learned. Jill Creighton: I really love the Netflix show, Dear White People. If folks haven't watched that yet, it's totally worth it especially for HigherEd nerds like us. The show is set at a fictionalized historically black college and university. And it's so important because I think one of the core messages I took out of the first two seasons was really that there is no one right way to do this, that everyone is bringing a different, unique lens to the challenges that are happening in higher education. And as a microcosm of America, higher education faces some unique things that don't end at the campus borders. There's just some really great pieces to take away from that show. So that's the one that I would recommend if I only get to recommend one today. But Alexandra, we are coming up at the end of our time now and I know that we could just go on for probably a long time on this subject. I really enjoy this dialogue so much with you. As we run to the end of our show, we always like to end with a lightning round. Are you ready? Alexandra Hughes: I'm scared, but I'm ready, I think. I don't know when I've I touched you. Okay. All right. Let's do this. Jill Creighton: All right. Seven questions and under 90 seconds, here we go. Alexandra Hughes: Okay. Jill Creighton: Number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Alexandra Hughes: Beyonce, run the world, boom. Jill Creighton: Number two. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were five? Alexandra Hughes: A princess. Jill Creighton: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Alexandra Hughes: Dr. Andrea Agnew. She actually is been amazing. She was the previous associate Dean of students at the University of South Alabama and I adore her. Jill Creighton: Excellent. And number four, who's your favorite author, personal or professional? Alexandra Hughes: Oh, this is so hard. Wait, 90 seconds. Oh God, this is making me nervous. Jill Creighton: You got this. Alexandra Hughes: I need to think of this. You would think that I would know this since I read so much, pass, come back to that one. Jill Creighton: Number five. What is your essential student affairs read? Alexandra Hughes: Microaggressions. Oh, that's my answer for last one. Let's do that. My favorite one right now because of my dissertation would be a Microaggression Theory by Derald Wing Sue and all the writers there. so we'll go with that. And my favorite read right now, Why do all the Black Kids sit in the Cafeteria together? I think that one, we'll go with that one. Jill Creighton: All right. Number six, the podcasts that you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year other than ASCA Viewpoints? Alexandra Hughes: The Read. I'll go with The Read. And then because I'm going to say I spent a lot of time doing Viewpoints stuff. That would be that, so that's a fun one that's not HigherEd. That's fun to just think about and get your mind off of things. Jill Creighton: And number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Alexandra Hughes: Yes, to you. You're amazing. I want to give a shout out to you Jill, because you've done such amazing work. You've done amazing work on these platforms, you're amazing. Also want to shout out my mom and my dad because I love them and why not, because they never get shouted out. So yes, those are my shout outs. That was hard. That was seven minutes. Jill Creighton: You did great. Alexandra Hughes: Oh my God. Seven questions. Jesus, okay. All right. That was stressful. I need to be prepared next time. I need to have better stuff. Okay, well that was so much, but I'm going to ease some of the stress and then bring the stress down. I'm not going to put you through that stressful part. And so at the end of our show in ASCA Viewpoints, one of the things that I love doing is asking people what is something that's giving you life in the middle of COVID-19 and the middle of this world that we find ourselves in and the pandemic and the life. And this work that we do where we're constantly giving ourselves to our students and those around us, is there a book, is there a podcast, is there a recipe, is there a cricut machine? That's mine, I'm loving the Cricut Explore Air Maker, Craft World. What is something that's giving you life that you would like to share with people that they could look into? Jill Creighton: So I am part of the graduating class of 2020. I finished my doctorate in May- Alexandra Hughes: Dr. Jill. Jill Creighton: Which means, that's not something I'm ever going to get to take off ever again, which was an interesting moment for me. But because of that, I decided that I was going to take a break from heavy intellectualism outside of work. And I dove headfirst really hard into the world of Animal Crossing: New Horizons because I didn't get to have a graduation this year, I recreated my doctoral regalia for my little Animal Crossing villager. I'm trying to collect recipes from Celeste to the owl right now. I mean, it's truly a little utopian escapism digital Island. I'm having a good time in there for now. I don't think it's going to last very long, but it's helping my brain relax at the end of the day. Alexandra Hughes: I mean, we didn't think the pandemic was going to last very long either. And here we are and halfway through the year. So I say I'm all for Animal Crossing and all for this and maybe I will have to come visit your little Island world. Jill Creighton: Please do. I will DM you my friend code. Alexandra Hughes: Okay, we're going to work on this. Well, that was perfect. Jill Creighton: Alexandria, folks would like to reach you after the show today. How can they do that? Alexandra Hughes: Oh my gosh. They can reach me in so many places. So I think first off, if you would love to listen to the ASCA Viewpoints Podcast, that is ASCA Viewpoints in all of the places. If you want to email the show, it's ascapodcast@gmail.com. We're also ASCA Podcast on Twitter and as of recently, I've made an Instagram for ASCA Podcasts. So that's the same thing on there. And then if people want to tweet me or reach out to me, I am Alexandra's view on the Twitter and all of the things. And then yeah, you can email me on there like I said with the podcast and we'll make sure that people can reach out to me. So now I'm going to ask you, Jill. People want to reach you because I know people want to do this. Where can they reach you? Jill Creighton: I'm always happy to chat with folks on Twitter at Jill Creighton. J-I-L-L-C-R-E-I-G-H-T-O-N. You can also find me on LinkedIn. Just let me know that you're connecting through the podcast, otherwise I'm going to go, "I'm not sure who you are." And then you can reach me at Washington State University and my email address is on the Dean of students website. Alexandra Hughes: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for this show, this episode, us to having this, I'm sure our listeners are going to be like, "What is this? This is fun." And I hope they enjoy it and they're excited. And maybe we need to do some more of these in the future. Jill Creighton: Bring it on. I'm so excited. Alexandra, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Alexandra Hughes: Thank you. This episode was produced, edited and hosted by Alexandra Hughes, that's me. If you're enjoying the podcast, we ask that you like, rate and review us on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. It really helps others discover us and become more visible to our podcasting community. If you have suggestions for future guests or would like to be featured on the podcast yourself, feel free to reach out to us by email at ascapodcast@gmail.com or on Twitter at ASCA Podcast. If you'd like to connect with me on Twitter, you can find me @Alexandra's view. Talk to us, we've talked back.