Alexandra Hughes (00:01):
Welcome to season three of the ASCA Viewpoints podcast, the podcast where we talk about the student conduct profession in higher education. I'm Alexandra Hughes, your Viewpoints host.

Alexandra Hughes (00:19):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of student conduct and all things amazing student conduct yet. Okay, I'm done. If you were wondering where am I state of mind is on like day hundred 95,764 of being in the house, um, that's, that's where I am. So I'm just going to apologize for your ears and, and that. Um, how are you all doing? How are you all doing? I know that we had an episode come out at the beginning of the month as always the first Wednesday of the month. And a lot of people had a lot of great things to say. You guys wrote in, you guys like sent me messages on Twitter and all of the things when you're like, Hey look, COVID-19 these are the things, this is what we're dealing with. And so I truly, truly appreciate that. And in light of the fact that we are in the house and we are trying to find things to do, I thought that I would bring you something special to listen to a special episode.

Alexandra Hughes (01:28):
Um, you know about some of the things that we're doing in ASCA more so when it comes to like the ASCA chats and just different things and resources that we're providing. I will say that I'm loving the fact that I don't have to wear like real like business clothes, so leggings, sweatpants or soft pants. Actually. So last week I said the concept of soft pants to like one of my friends. And so she laughed at me and thought that I was crazy and I just want to throw this out there, but I'm not the only person that refers to the sweatpants as soft pants because I was listening to this podcast this morning called Humans of Higher Education. And so shout out to them and one of their, uh, like co-hosts on the show actually talked about the fact that he gets to wear soft pants too.

Alexandra Hughes (02:19):
And so I knew at that moment in time that this was a real term and it's important too to remember. So for those of you who don't know, soft pants are basically not your business pants, your jeans, you know, the hard pants that you have to wear from eight to five, but rather the comfy pants that you put on from five to eight or the weekends. But in light of us having to work from home soft pants are the attire every day, all day. Or as I like to say, I change out of my nighttime pajamas into my daytime pajamas and back into the nighttime pajamas. The only problem is as like the Humans of Higher Ed podcast also talked about is the fact that like, I hope the hard pants will fit, when we get done with this because right now I, I don't know, because I've been snacking and I have not been able to social distance or keep six feet away from my fridge.

Alexandra Hughes (03:14):
So, you know, we'll get there. We will most definitely get there. So shout out to them for that. So I wanted to bring this special episode to you guys, to give you something else to really just listen to, to have and drumroll please dah, dah, dah. It features Christine Simone. So I know that some people were saying that we wanted to get her back on the show and so I reached out to her to say, "Hey! Can you come on, can you talk to us? Because the people want to hear from you and you have some good information about what's going on with ASCA and the ASEA chats." So for those of you who don't know, just a brief introduction, Christine Simone is the Deputy Director for the Association for Student Conduct Administration. So she does everything in all things and it's just like completely amazing.

Alexandra Hughes (04:01):
Prior to that, she was the Director of Residence Life and Community Standards at the College of St. Mary, which is located in Omaha, Nebraska. She is a doctoral student as well. She has been serving the Association through just various leadership roles. She's been here for approximately seven years, a member of the board of directors. She was the 2019 Annual Conference Chair and she's been on our podcast before so she just does everything. You've probably talked to her before, if not, you have seen things coming out through email from her and she really just is just a force to be reckoned with and it's just amazing when it comes to the work that she's doing here. That being said, she started something called the ASCA chats. So I don't know if you have really gotten a chance to understand what those are, if you've really been able to get on and see those.

Alexandra Hughes (04:55):
So if you haven't, one of the things that Christine and I wanted to do was really just reached out so you know what they are, the chats, they're basically happening every day or almost every day, twice a day and feature a variety of different topics that you may have some questions about. So really this conversation is going to be about that. It gives some really good advice. You get to hear what's going on and so I hope that you enjoy it. I hope that you are staying safe, staying healthy. Please take care of yourselves, your loved ones connect. If you need some support. If you'd like to connect over the interwebs, then you know where to find me and all of my contact info is at the end of this episode. As always, we look forward to seeing you soon on the show. Thanks so much. And hang in there!

Alexandra Hughes (06:02):
hi.

Christine Simone (06:03):
Hi!

Alexandra Hughes (06:04):
How are you?

Christine Simone (06:05):
I'm doing great.

Alexandra Hughes (06:06):
You're doing great.

Christine Simone (06:07):
Working from home like everybody else.

Alexandra Hughes (06:08):
Your home, your home life. You're a home commute from, let's say you're at, you know, one room to the next room. It's a very long commute, isn't it? It's hard. It's hard. It's really just every, the traffic that you, you know, come across the, you know, just having to just, you know, stay in your car and just like, Oh my goodness. Just every, the smog in the air, the lights, it's a thing. Right? It makes you miss those things.

Christine Simone (06:32):
Having come from residence life originally, this is actually my longest live in commute I've ever had. Number of steps wise. It's the longest.

Alexandra Hughes (06:41):
I actually respect that seeing as I definitely remember. See this takes me back to my residence life days, right, where like I lived and worked in the same place, but see in that type of situation, I was also living and working with like 600 other college undergraduate students and it was not this quiet at all. So, you know, I don't know if that's better or worse than this moment, but it is what it is. So if we're here, but we're here, we are on the podcast, we have a very special episode. So for those people who may not know who you are, which they absolutely should, but you've been on the podcast before, you are like onboard. Like will you just introduce yourself for people and you know, and as many words as you're comfortable with on a recorded podcast sharing maybe some, I don't know, something that people don't know about you.

Christine Simone (07:29):
Um, well, my name's Christine Simone. I'm the Deputy Director for ASCA. I've been in that role for about 16 months or so. I started full time in that position back in January of 19. Prior to that, I was, um, serving as a volunteer with the organization for about six years and just really enjoyed working with the Association with all of the events that we do. Primarily, the conference was kind of where I got that start and that connection. Um, and then having served on the Board of Directors for years. So for me it was just a very natural transition. Um, and I really just enjoy continuing to give back to the Association in whatever ways that I can. And um, it's been an interesting year and a half or so. A lot's changed in that time, but definitely it's still been a great experience.

Alexandra Hughes (08:16):
I mean, who would have thought that you'd be going through a pandemic, in your role? I mean, I don't think any of us would have thought that. Right. But I think that's part of what makes, you know, conduct so fun. We often say in conduct, like you never know what you're going to expect, like get every day, so expect the unexpected. And this, this was most definitely...

Speaker 5 (08:36):
yeah, this leveled up.

Alexandra Hughes (08:37):
Yeah. I, I, yeah, I feel like I'm in level four of Jumanji right now. I like, we're in April and I'm like, Oh my goodness. Like every month of 2020 can we like, unplug 2020, can we re-plug it in, you know, give it 10 seconds and see what happens. Um, but that being said, seeing as that we've about the pandemic, how are you dealing with everything that's going on? What are you doing, you know, to take care of yourself and, you know, just the reality of the world that we live in.

Christine Simone (09:04):
Yeah. So I think I need to take a second to acknowledge some of the privilege that I have in this situation. Um, I think the pandemic has looked very different for me than it has for many. I was already working from home. I already had a home office set up. A lot of my day to day has really not changed. With the exception of having a partner who's a public health nurse doing outdoor COVID testing in the Georgia heat. So besides that, that's a matter, but that change for them than it is for me. Um, so it's really just to having the children home and just sorta trying to mentally take care of all of us. Just one day at a time, kind of like everyone else is doing.

Alexandra Hughes (09:45):
Yeah. And I think what you said is really, really the point, right? It's just one day at a time. And I think it's hard for, for everyone. And I love that you, you did that, right? Like you said, I have to acknowledge my privilege in this and I think that's something that even for me, and I've constantly said it and I'll say it again. I agree with you. Even though it's been this major shift of working at it, you know, this institution and now working from home, the fact that I can work from home, right? When so many people have like lost jobs and what that looks like, the fact that I can be safe and not have to be out there dealing with, you know what I mean with people and putting myself at risk is definitely a privilege. Um, but I do think the reality is like, we can exist in both, right?

Alexandra Hughes (10:22):
Like they're not mutually exclusive. I think acknowledging and being appreciative on one end is part of it. But I think the other side is also saying like, this is crazy. Like the world is crazy and it's definitely going to impact us in many different ways. And so I think that's just important too, so give yourself grace in this. And I think that's what, you know, we're just constantly trying to do every day. So that's part of it. But, but you've done something great for our organization. You have actually created these ASCA Chats and so they have been extremely popular. People have been coming on and getting some really great information. So I really wanted to kind of just like start with that really like what made you think of doing that? How did you come up with that idea and kind of go from there?

Christine Simone (11:06):
Yeah. So the second week of March was kind of when things started to hit the fan across the country and we'd have little pockets here and there of different shutdowns and different needs. But that was the week when, when institutions really started getting on board with, okay, this is a thing and we need to address it and we need to make some changes to how we do our normal operations. So when that happened, ASCA was kind of sitting back a little bit, trying to give institutions a little bit of space to gain their footing and to figure out what needed to be done for each of their individual campuses. But at the same time, we knew that we needed to be able to support our members in some way. So we have this access to about 3000 members and we felt a call to a resource to them. Even if it's not necessarily directly related to conduct operations, but an opportunity to still be in community with our members and to allow them to connect with one another. So, in talking with Jennifer Waller, our Executive Director, she and I were kind of tossing around like if we still were working in direct contact with the conduct department on a campus, what are the things that we would be worried about wanting to know more about thinking ahead on, and we came up with this list of 23 different topics.

Alexandra Hughes (12:27):
I have them here, I can read some of them off. So I know that you have, I mean, just from, from March all the way to, April things like adjusting to life as a remote employee, business as usual, moving processes to the remote environment, COVID at community colleges, supervising and supporting staff, group accountability, shaking up sanctioning. I mean, you even have your last one is five months since Wuhan reflections and projections on the pandemic. So you definitely have just a wide variety of topics. I don't even know how you came up with all of those topics. My goodness.

Christine Simone (13:02):
Well, you'll notice most of them are alliterated so, you know, you got to at least look for ways to do that. So, um, but really we knew that right now there are no experts on this. We don't have people in the field that have gone through a global pandemic previously and can speak to being an expert on that particular issue. So for us, we knew that there are not experts, however, where our expertise lies is in the ability to communicate with one another. That's what makes things like our conferences successful. That's what makes people want to interact and network with one another is that opportunity to connect. So we created these chats twice a day. We allow up to 20 people to log on and we just have a conversation. They're very informal. It's really just a dialogue. I kind of kick us off and then we spend about an hour just sort of popcorning around and talking about whatever it is people want to talk about, have interest in, or just want to follow up with each other on. So we usually start on the topic, from that day, but it normally ends up in, you know, so what are your thoughts on this? How are you doing with this component? It's really a really wealthy and rich conversation that we're able to have around whatever it is that people need that day.

Alexandra Hughes (14:21):
Yeah. I mean, I can definitely attest to that. I know I've been on a few of the calls, quite a few of the calls to say the least. It's definitely given me some information and insight. And I remember I, there have been calls that I've been on where people are asking questions and I'm like, Oh, we did this. Oh, let me tell you what I made up. Oh, I have that. And I've been on other calls where I'm like, help me figure out how to do this because I've just, I've never, and I, like you said, who's expert on how to handle, you know, global pandemic, right? None of us now, I mean, after this resume builder for all of us, we will have that there. And we are not experts in that. But you're right. And it's just a wealth of information that I think that we're just trying to, to get out and then to just learn about and to share. So I definitely, I know, I personally appreciate that and it's been very helpful. But with that, I see that you've picked up a new skill of blogging. How's that been going?

Christine Simone (15:18):
I never saw myself as a blogger at all. My undergraduate degree was actually in print journalism and I worked for a regional branch, the New York times for a few years and so it's kinda my emerging of two of my passion areas. So it's a totally different type of writing than I've done, but it's been a really good opportunity to kind of do a little bit of the artistic stuff and do some reflection in a way that's very cathartic to me. Then also allows me to share more information back with those who were able to get on the call or to summarize some of the thoughts that had been going on. If people were thinking about a number of different things or missed a note on a resource that they could use. It's just an opportunity to kind of gather my thoughts and the collective thoughts of those who are on the chats in a way that can be documented for us to go back to in the future too.

Alexandra Hughes (16:14):
Well, it's definitely even as like, I read the blog posts from the ones that I've been in and then like read the blog posts from the ones that I wasn't able to attend. It's definitely been extremely helpful and I think that's the reality and part of it, right? Like we're all working from home in some capacity and you would think that we have a lot of time, but we don't have a lot of extra time. So there's like all these webinars and things that are going on and I know that people, some people have missed it, which is actually what kind of inspired, you know, me and you to kind of do this whole podcast episode for people that way in case they've missed stuff. It's like, Hey, here are just different ways where you can get the same information if you weren't able to be there.

Alexandra Hughes (16:51):
So I know it's been helpful. Uh, and even as I read through what you're saying, like it just, it helps me right like, just, just listening to your thoughts and listening to kind of like how you're dealing and processing with everything. It really helps me feel like I'm not alone. Right. And that, and so I just, I know I've thoroughly enjoyed it. So what are some of the things, that have stood out to you, you know, as, as you've been on all of the calls, right? Like what are some things that, and you know, maybe it's not all of them, but just what are some things that stood out that people are maybe constantly saying or asking?

Christine Simone (17:23):
Yeah, I think, I think the overarching theme has been that we're all continuing to grow through this. So it's the personal piece of, I'm trying to figure out where we're at, what's happening and what the future holds for our careers, our profession, ourselves personally. But then there's also the piece where we started out with a completely blank canvas and no clear direction on how to take an on campus based process and move it into a completely remote environment and all of the different nuances that come with that really make it a very complicated transition to pull off in a very, very short amount of time. So I think w I've really seen the way that by leaning on one another and doing some tremendous resource sharing between institutions, there's been really a very quick growth and collection of knowledge that has come from that. I think that that's one of the best parts to see.

Christine Simone (18:18):
The other part is, there's been a theme of just authenticity and just owning the fact that we don't necessarily have the answers and someone else might have an idea, but it's just been, an opportunity where people have been very real in those conversations and said, you know, Hey, I'm struggling with this, or, you know what? I did this thing today and I'm really proud of it. Let me show you that document. And so I think that that's been really great. The, the piece that, I think is more important even than the contribution to the field and the development of some of these conduct pieces is the ability to be connected when we're all isolated. So the majority of people who are on these calls have been working from home. Even if they're essential employees, they may be going to campus not as often as they used to.

Christine Simone (19:08):
So for, for all of those, participants, regardless of what their family or home situation looks like it's more isolating than it was. So this is a chance to sit down and to have a conversation, get a sense of normalcy from being able to connect with one another, in this way. And so that's, that's I think been some of the most important themes to me are those personal connection pieces. And all of the parts of the conduct process that we've talked about have really been developed quite a bit in just three weeks, which has also been really impressive. I think the personal connections to me are what stands out the most.

Alexandra Hughes (19:51):
I mean, it's been helpful for me, but you're right. I mean, even like just being able to connect with people in this space because literally what you're saying, right? Like we're all isolated to an extent. Definitely I feel more isolated than probably any of us have ever been in a while. And then on top of that, it's the, what do I do and how do I make this happen? And I love the authenticity and I love that word. And I love just the fact that it's true that all these phone calls, because I think if nothing else, we all know from conduct, that it's very serious. The work that we do, like it's very important. It's very impactful. And a lot of times in student conduct it's like you can't make mistakes, right. Or the mistakes that we make as student conduct officers, it's a lot different than, you know, if the popcorn machine breaks for a program.

Alexandra Hughes (20:37):
And I'm not saying that there's anything less with that because I, like I have been the person putting on a program and the popcorn machine broke and like, my whole night was ruined. I'm just gonna, I'm going to throw that out there. I've been in that space, but it does take on a different, you know, type of a mindset or approach when now we're dealing with students and, and it's this capacity of how do we serve our students online when they are, you know, talking about committing suicide when they are, when we have to investigate these Title IX cases. Or we were already in the middle of an investigation of a Title IX case. We had come to kind of a decision or maybe a finding of responsibility or whatever that looks like for each institution prior to this, the world's kind of stopping and starting over in the month of March.

Alexandra Hughes (21:22):
Right. And then how do we now transition to being online when we have to have a Title IX hearing in an online setting? That's something that we've never really had to truly think of. And even, I think part of it is the reality of the fact that we don't really know when this is going to end. And I think that's what makes that scarier, right? If it's a hurricane or if it's something, those are very, very, um, impactful things and they can cause a lot of destruction, but there's still like an ending, if that makes sense. With this it's scary because we don't know, you know, I know I just found out from one of my colleagues at another institution, they were told today that they can't come back to work until August like 6th. So I was just in shock when I heard that. I know for us it's like, May she, she found that out today and it's just like, okay, like, so what does that look like? This idea of being temporary and saying, Oh, it's only going to be a couple of weeks. Is looking to be a lot more permanent-ish slash not temporary than we might've thought, right. And what does that look like and how does that impact our field and what we do with conduct moving forward.

Christine Simone (22:33):
One of the studies that I read recently that I included in one of the blog posts was about the nature of uncertainty and how it affects, kind of our mental capacity. And our preferences. And what was really interesting about the study, and I want to say it was University of Chicago, but forgive me if that was incorrect. They had a study where they gave people the option to either sit in a room and they may or may not be shocked by an electric current or they could sit in the space and shock themselves and know that they would be continually shocked and they would rather be continually lightly electrocuted then not know when it's coming.

Christine Simone (23:18):
And that says so much about the uncertainty that we're in and that's where a good deal of the stress and panic comes from. The anxieties are kind of boiling up in our society is, is that uncertainty that you mentioned. I'm sure we can do conduct hearings remotely. Sure. We can, we have the technology and the availability for the most part to be able to facilitate a lot of the things in the processes that we did before. But from an educator perspective it takes a lot of the humanistic elements away. So what you were saying about say a Title IX investigation or any really any type of hearing,

Christine Simone (23:54):
It's a lot harder to, to take a trauma informed approach through a screen. There's just, there's authenticity that is removed from that situation. Just by using a computer screen as a mediator for that conversation. And so it becomes a little bit harder to connect and to really, have those in depth conversations with students in a way that allows them to feel safe and secure and realize that we're human and we're all kind of working together, while also still getting the work done. And so that's, I think that's another piece of it is our hope that we'll be able to get back to a situation where we're able to meet in person with students and to sit down and to have those really robust conversations that have been in some ways changed a little bit by using these other platforms.

Alexandra Hughes (24:42):
I think part of what you're saying, even just to add onto that, right? Like how do we assess credibility when I can't fully see you? Part of my job is to, is to know if and when you're lying and that's much different. You know, when you're in my office and I can sit there and I'm watching you and I've been able to open up and have these conversations and almost like get your baseline for how you answer questions that I know that are true, right? Like we all do this, we've all been trained, and then I can kind of go from there to gauge that's so much harder when it's online. But I think one of the things that I have been seeing, I've noticed from my own work and I've noticed from some of the things that we've heard from other colleagues is a lot of times just acknowledging what you just said, right?

Alexandra Hughes (25:23):
Like if I had to give advice to people and how do I go through and have these conduct hearings? I think part of it is literally acknowledging the fact that student like look like this is new for all of us. This is why we're here. This is what we're doing. You know, I appreciate you being willing to to meet with me during this time and almost like having that sense of I think, and kind of going back to the word that we used authenticity about the fact that this is new for all of us and we're not the experts in how to do this kind of helps. I've noticed that and I've noticed that other people are saying that too

Christine Simone (25:57):
That was something that we had some recent conversation about BIT and care teams and how we intervene with students is a lot different when you're on a college campus and you can go meet a student in class or you can run into them in the hallway and have a quick conversation or touch base. Whereas now needing to pick up a phone and convince somebody to talk to you. Well then also having to balance, you know, that complete feeling of yes, I share those exact same anxieties that you have versus being able to just be a support person and a resource. There's a difference between the empathizing and completely understanding a situation. And so we've kind of taken the shift when it comes to those interventions. And there's like really good opportunity to show that, you know, not to the word, but to use that authenticity to say, look, I understand what is going on and here's what's going on with me. And maybe we can build some rapport over some of these shared experiences that we now have because we're kind of all going through some similar things. And I may not completely understand your situation, but I have at least gotten a taste of, of the greater global picture now. And so let's talk through what that means. Let's talk through how this impacts your life and, and be able to build from there. Well that's, if you can get connected to that student, right.

Alexandra Hughes (27:25):
That's the hard part. Like so. And I think part of it, and I've even noticed for me where I had, you know, students that I'm worried about because I know that they've, they were already kind of like on that BIT team radar. I was able to make those connections with them and they would come to my office. Right. And so it's able to have that conversation to check in and to do that. I know, even right now as I record this, I'm thinking about a student who I've called, I've emailed, I've done all of these things and they have not been responsive to that. So there really isn't much else that I can do. I mean I've done the things, for example, reaching out to the professors is this person essentially. Normally in the past it was, is this person showing up to your class? Now it's is this person, you know, responding in this online virtual environment, you know, definitely checked with all the report systems, but then at the end of the day, the most that I can do, and I think part of my advice to people would be document that, right?

Alexandra Hughes (28:08):
Even in this world of, I think it's okay for us for the first time to have, if you haven't had compassion, have a little bit more. I would say that, but also don't forget the fact that you need to document all of those things because you know, whatever this looks like, whenever we figure out what our world and higher ed and in conduct is going to be, if it ever comes back, you want to be able to show, look, I called from this number, I don't care if it's a text now app line that you have on your phone with that you're able to call students with and that's what you have to use. You say, look, I called from this number. I would say, you know, at least document that stuff. So it's there just in case. Then also have, have some more compassion for people because you're right, like we for the first time, we all collectively are going through this and it's hard.

Christine Simone (28:59):
Yeah, it is. I think you just, you kind of alluded to something there a second ago that our field is very litigious in nature, right? So we know that this has been an ongoing theme over the past couple of decades and there is that need to do the documentation and to make our best effort. But at the same time, there's also this kind of hope if it's well-intended at this time, because we don't necessarily have, you know, specific processes for some of the stuff we're going through. We want to hope that the well-intentioned nature of what we're doing is going to matter one way or the other. And so I think for the first time in a little while, one of the first things that people are talking about when they're talking about what they should do is what's in the best interest of the student in the institution. Rather than having to first think through, okay, what can I justify later within the realm legality or any sort of litigation that could come. It's a better balance I think of people saying, you know what, if I get sued I get sued because I know I did the right thing for the student. And I think that that's didn't really an interesting shift as well.

Alexandra Hughes (30:12):
Well I like it, it brings that humanistic side back to the work that we do. I think so often. And I, you know, I often tell people look like people think conduct is in the black and in the white and like, yes, but our job is really the gray and that's why it's so hard. The black and white cases are easy. I'm like, Oh that you had, you had cocaine in my residence hall that like that's super easy. But it's the hard stuff. It's the, what do we do in the gray that makes it harder? And I like what you're saying. I think for the first time, you know, we are seeing people saying look, this is the right thing to do. Part of it is on one hand there is no guidance, right? Like you said at the very beginning of our conversation. So it's not even something that we can go back to and say, well, the guidance says this.

Alexandra Hughes (30:54):
Well, you know, the past cases of, you know, X V whatever, you know, government state like has said this and so that doesn't exist. And so I think part of it is just going back to saying, look what makes sense, what is the right thing? And at the end of the day, that's really all that we can do because this is, this is real, this is serious. And, and you have to start, you know, really evaluating, I think people's health people safety, people's livelihood and how does that make an impact, you know, versus just this alleged policy that we really don't know about. You know, and it's hard. It's not easy, right? Because especially as conduct administrators were like, no, the policy, like, because that's where, that's where we really go off of. That's essentially, you know, our, our Bible, if we use that as, you know what I mean as a reference. But that's what we go off of and we know that. But it's changed.

Christine Simone (31:46):
Yeah. In many ways it's the black and white just comes from needing some sort of definitive standardized practice, but at the same time, really every conversation in every situation has that element of gray. So your example just now of okay, you had cocaine in my residence hall, you check yes or no, sure. That's very black and white. But then once you start to ask the questions about, okay, but why situation, what are the mental health elements that led us here? What are the financial components that may have caused this? It really adds all those different shades, not 50 shades, but shades of gray to the conversation in a much different way. And I think we're seeing more of that coming first and being able to start those conversations looking more at causes then the outcomes.

Alexandra Hughes (32:39):
And I think equity, right? Like I think that's part of it. We haven't really, and I think, you know, as you know, I'm a big equity social justice person. But that's something that I'm constantly talking about when we're thinking about, and I think that's another thing too. You know, a lot of our offices handle complaints, right? I know like my office does. Some institutions it's in student conduct, sometimes it's a offset, it's just different areas. But the complaints that are coming in about, you know, access to be able to get to internet. And you know, I know both you and I talked before about the fact that we have to acknowledge our privilege and the ability to go home and work and have that. But we're also assuming that students have the ability to have devices, have internet, have access to be able to, you know, do these things that they could even get internet out to where they live and people sell say oh well they can come to campus. Well you're assuming that they have a car to get to campus. It's possible that maybe before, you know, mom or dad dropped them off first thing in the morning before they went to work and pick them up late at night. Like we don't know what their original situations were. And so definitely keeping that in mind. And now it's one of those things where before it's like, well, what's the rule? And then the exception. Now it's like, look, all of these are like the exception, right? It's what's your answer for why you could have, do something pandemic like I'm sure admissions, what did they say? I think it's on Facebook. Like admissions essays are going to say it's going to be thousands of them talking about how they've survived like the pandemic. I would hate to have to do that. I tell you.

Alexandra Hughes (34:08):
But that's okay though. So, I think it's been interesting to see what we've done so far. I think that I am so proud of our field of student conduct because in three weeks, you know, the month of March we have uprooted, uplifted. I mean we have just done things that I couldn't have ever even imagined. The way that we've come together to work, the way that we've all individually had to figure out things and make things on the spot. The way that we've supported each other and saying, look, you're at this institution, what are you doing? And here, I'll send you this or do you have this? I mean without any hesitation is just truly, I think admire, able to see

Christine Simone (34:55):
It really is. I think that's been really the best part, the chats and the blogs is really to see the way that our field has come together. It's not, you know, well I created this document so I don't want to share it. It's, Hey, I did this work. Let me help somebody else out. Let me see, you know, what others think of this or let me share it so that it can save someone else sometime. It's just been very communal in nature. That's something that I've always loved about this field, but it continues to show itself in this setting too.

Alexandra Hughes (35:26):
And we're doing what we have to do. You know, part of what we're doing as a country is saying, stay home, right. To consider ourselves as, as a community and really stay home to help each other. And I think part of that community is that we are sharing, you know, in the inner webs and in this digital space to ensure that we can at the end of the day, I think really make sure that we're providing the best experiences for our students. No one else but us knows how hard it is to be, you know, student conduct officers and administrators, but no one else understands the immense joy and satisfaction that we have from our field. That I truly believe and I understand that I'm partial, that no one else has and no one else can really understand that in the work and the depth of the work that we do and why we do it. So I'm definitely just proud of our field and what we've been doing. So with that, I will ask you, is there anything, whether that's a book, a song, a podcast, obviously this podcast, which is the best podcast ever, or just something that you've been doing for yourself that's giving you life that you want to share with people so they can also get their life from it as well.

Christine Simone (36:34):
Yeah. So my go tos for stress relief are mostly coloring, if I'm honest. I just love adult coloring books and the little the diamond paintings and thinking of the extra stuff that's mindless, but that brings color and joy and brightness into, you know, an artistic activity that is mindless and allows me to think about something completely different. I have about a week left of this semester as a student myself. And so I'm just really looking forward to that being done so that I can, you know, sit around and color with my kids. You know, I think podcast wise, my favorite podcast is called the Fall Line. I'm sorry. It's not Viewpoints, it's not personal. I listened to I think it's partially because it's local. It's partially because it's true crime and investigation, but it's, it's about kind of where the, the Fall Line is in Georgia and all the different unsolved mostly homicides that are from that area. For the most part, the sole reason they were never investigated is due to lack of inclusion and diversity issues in those areas where you had back in the sixties and seventies, you had cops that just were not willing to investigate cases of missing children and such. So it's very interesting to see them go back now 30, 40, 50 years later and try to solve some of these things and bring justice to those families. So, myself, I live just outside of Atlanta, so having it be relative to the local area too, it's just something that's really interesting. So, that's a podcast that I definitely would recommend too.

Alexandra Hughes (38:17):
As a native of Atlanta. Now living in Texas, I know about the Fall Line and I missed Atlanta and that's all I'm going to start crying if I keep going from there. So from my home to yours, I missed that. Well, Christine, we want to say thank you so much for just giving us our time being on the show, being on your second favorite podcast. That's totally fine. It is. Okay. I will always remember that and I just, everyone's going to know this now and that's, that's okay. But I want to thank you so much for your time. We appreciate what you're doing and we appreciate you. Just everything that you're doing for ASCA and just supporting us and we hope to see you back on the podcast soon.

Alexandra Hughes (39:00):
This episode was produced, edited, and hosted by Alexandra Hughes. That's me. If you're enjoying the podcast, we ask that you like rate and review us on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps others discover us and become more visible to our podcasting community. If you have suggestions for future guests or would like to be featured on the podcast yourself, feel free to reach out to us by email at ascapodcast@gmail.com or on Twitter @ascapodcast. If you'd like to connect with me on Twitter, you can find me @alexandrasview. Talk to us, we talk back!