EPISODE 

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:07] CL: Hello and welcome to This Speech Life, an audio course and podcast from SpeechTherapyPD.com. Exploring all things related to school-based SLP practice. I'm your host, Caitlin Lopez, MS, CCC-SLP, a school-based SLP with over 10 years of experience. In each episode, we will cover three need-to-know aspects of that episode topic, two resources related to the topic, and one actionable strategy for tomorrow.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:00:37] CL: Hello, everyone and welcome to this episode of This Speech Life. I am ecstatic to have the Sam Walker with us here today to talk about all things Praxis. This is definitely an area of specialty for her. Before we begin, just a few housekeeping items. If you are taking the class for credit or the course for credit today, please log into your SpeechTherapyPD.com portal and complete all modules, especially the one entitled quiz by the end of day today, to get your live credit for today.

All right, everyone, I am so excited to introduce to all of you the amazing, incomparable Sam Walker. She's one of the kindest SLPs out there. Like I said, I'm just so excited to have her as part of our podcast. The amazing Sam Walker, she used to be an NYC based speech pathologist and entrepreneur, but now, she's out in California, Southern California, which we're very excited about. She's the creator of the brand. Speaking of Samantics. She's passionate about her job as a speech pathologist, and her goal is to inspire others around the world to do the same.

With her brand, she helps spread the word about the important work of speech language pathologists everywhere, and uses it to bring the community together. She designs and makes everything with love, offering a broad range of products, including stickers, water bottles, mugs, our range of witty t-shirts and office supplies. She also is an amazing advocate for our graduate students. And her platform has really taken such a huge like upturn in that direction, which I know I am super grateful of that I can share her as a resource to the grad students that I supervise.

[DISCLOSURE]

[00:02:31] CL: So, just before we begin, some disclosure statements. I am Caitlin Lopez, the host of this podcast, This Speech Life. I do receive compensation for this episode from SpeechTherapyPD.com. Sam Walker, she is the creator of Speaking of Samantics, like we just talked about. And also, through Speaking of Samantics, she has her Play Praxis course and mentoring that she does through there as well. She is also going to receive an honorarium from SpeechTherapyPD.com for joining us today.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[00:03:08] CL: All right. Thank you so much, Sam, for joining us today.

[00:03:11] SW: Of course. Thank you, Caitlin, for that amazing introduction. Thank you so much. I mean, you said such amazing things and I appreciate that. I'm excited to be here. I know that if grad students are listening, the Praxis is probably one of the scarier parts of your grad school life. And hopefully, after listening to this podcast, you'll feel a lot more at ease and that this is just, yet, another bump we got to get over to get our CCC-SLP.

[00:03:37] CL: Right. It's true. All right. So, Sam, what are three things that we need to know about the Praxis?

[00:03:44] SW: Yeah, so the first time I started off by saying that you have 150 minutes to answer 132 questions. Now, I know that doesn't sound like a lot. But by the second year of your graduate school program, you'll start to notice that you'll have more confidence within yourself because the stuff that you're learning, especially from year one, is starting to actually like internalize into your brain. So, you have those 150 minutes to answer the 132 questions. There are different types of questions. It could Ð they're all multiple choice, so you don't have to type or write anything in. But it could be from just choose the answer, select all that apply. Put in the correct order or matching.

There's different formats. But again, they're all multiple choice, and there's no real way of knowing how many number of questions that you can answer correctly to know if you pass the practice. I know a lot of students kind of think about that. They're like, ÒWhat number do I need to see?Ó But it's really hard to tell because ETS, to make it fair for everyone, they change the version of the Praxis every Ð I think it's roughly every 28 days, and the number of questions you need to answer correctly for a passing score changes for every version. Because the Praxis is scaled. But we can talk about that in a little while.

But on the topic of scaling and scoring, the score that you need in order to pass is 162. The highest score you can get is a 200. There's three scores that you can get. You typically get two. Sometimes people get three. So, the first score that people can get is a raw score. Those are three, two-digit numbers. And if you get that at the end of your test, it's going to be really hard to tell if you passed or not, and that is because you are in the group of people who have just started taking this new version, so they're going to take your test data to scale that version of the Praxis. You're only going to get a raw score at the end of your exam. And then, you have to wait until you get your official score and your email to know if you passed.

Most people at the end of their test get their unofficial score, which is or should be a three-digit number. And if that number is 162 or above, you can rest assure that you've passed the Praxis. Then, there's the official score which comes in your email like either weeks or a couple of days after you've completed the Praxis, and that's just like the official score or official score report to tell you what your score was.

So, those are three possible scores you can get on the Praxis. The last thing that I think you need to know about the Praxis that may not be such news that you hear about all the time. But a lot of people ask me, what should I do about sending scores? Because when you sign up to take the Praxis, you have the opportunity to input certain codes for people you would like to send your scores to after completion of the exam.

Now, I know a lot of the times our fear is, ÒWell, I don't want to send it because what if I fail.Ó I can promise you that you're not the first one to fail, and you are probably not the last one to fail. I am always someone who recommends sending your scores kind of no matter what, and the reason for that is because if you do not kind of input that you want to send your scores, before actually taking the exam, it is $50 per score report that you want to send. Now, you have to, at some point, send your scores to ASHA, as part of your CCC application. Some schools require you to send the scores to them, but also your state. So, that's already two people that you have to send your score to. And if you don't send it when you apply for the exam, then you're already 100 bucks down. Hundred bucks, you can just flush down the drain because that has to go to sending those scores.

So, I always recommend putting the codes in when you're starting that application for the test. If you're confused about the codes, ASHA has a full page on it. If you can't find it, my Instagram page, the @slptestprep, I have a pinned post about the codes for all the people you need.

[00:08:05] CL: Awesome. Thank you for that. It's been so long since I've taken the Praxis, so I really appreciate the new knowledge that you're bringing to us, especially the helpful tips. What should I do about sending scores? I do you remember having to pay money to send it. I think I didn't send it to ASHA and the state, but my school made us do the Praxis our first year. That way we had a whole second year. No, maybe it was the end of Ð maybe it was towards the end of second year. I think at the beginning of second year. Now that I think about it Ð

[00:08:38] SW: I was going to say, ÒThat makes a lot more sense.Ó

[00:08:40] CL: Yes. I was like, ÒWait a second, that doesn't make any sense. We hadn't had any courses yet.Ó But because they wanted to help us if we didn't pass it, which I felt was helpful. So, I remember to send it to them, but not to anybody else. I think that's a really helpful tip, especially when you are freaking out about how much grad school costs. And I know a lot of grad school programs, my grad school program, the year I graduated was the last year that the program was at night. So, I know people aren't able to work for grad school, so that is really helpful. Thank you for that helpful tip. Also, the ASHA has a page for codes. I didn't realize that.

[00:09:25] SW: I believe it's a PDF. I'm pretty sure if you just Google like ASHA ETS codes, it should pop up.

[00:09:32] CL: Okay, great. Great. And then that is also really helpful, just the information about the different scores that come after taking like a stressful test and then looking at these numbers, what did they mean? So, thank you for that explanation of like, okay, a raw score, an official score, and then official score.

[00:09:51] SW: Yes, and it's hard too, because when you get to the end, like maybe immediately after your last question, they ask you like, ÒOkay, you're about to submit your tests. Are you sure you want to submit it?Ó You're like, ÒYes.Ó And they're like, ÒAre you sure?Ó You're like, ÒYes.Ó They're like, ÒAre you actually sure? Have you completeÓ Ð they ask you like four times, if you're ready to submit your test, and that's nerve racking in itself. And then when people get to the score report, they're like, ÒI don't know what any of this means.Ó So, I always like to tell people ahead of time, like what to expect and what to know, on the score that pops up.

[00:10:25] CL: Absolutely. I think that's really helpful information. I can imagine just being, going through grad school, like it forces you to almost be a type A personality. And then, you get to the part of your program where you're competent enough to take the Praxis and like, ay-yay-yay, all of that stress, right?

[00:10:46] SW: Yes, a 100%.

[00:10:49] CL: I think it is helpful too, that you laid out that it is all multiple choice, but it's not just A, B, C, D, in terms of what's the one correct answer. That's helpful to know, like, okay, select all that apply or put in order. I mean, those are much more in-depth questions than just choose A.

[00:11:08] SW: Exactly, yes. And a lot of the times in the Praxis, too, you'll get questions that are worded as in Òselect the best choice thatÓ, and there'll be two answers that looks so similar and look so right, and those are the questions that I think are the hardest. We can talk a little bit later about how to study for the Praxis. But yes, I always like to tell people like the type of questions because when people hear multiple choice, they're like, ÒOkay, that's simple.Ó Like you said, A, B, C, D, choose the best answer. But no, there are definitely different types of multiple-choice questions on there.

[00:11:40] CL: Yes. I think that's helpful for those that are starting to prepare. Okay, so we've talked about three things to know. What are your two resources for our listeners?

[00:11:50] SW: Yes. So, my first resource that I use personally when I was taking the Praxis and I always kind of recommend that students do this as well are the ETS practice test. Well, I know you have to pay an additional cost. After you purchase, you're kind of Ð admission into the exam, you can purchase practice tests. I always tell students like, those practices are a really good idea to do. My reason for that is because ETS is who makes the Praxis. The ETS practice tests are most resemble what the kind of questions you're going to get on the Praxis, so much so that I took a practice test when I was taking the Praxis, and one or two questions from my practice tests were on my Praxis.

So, I think they are super similar, especially if you want to get yourself used to the format of the test. But also, if you're someone who maybe gets anxious in a testing room, or in an environment that you kind of have to take the test in, those ETS tests are good to kind of force yourself to mock that environment, right? So, devote like a Saturday to going somewhere that's quiet and spending 150 minutes. TheyÕre taking this practice test to mock the environment that you're going to be in, because stepping into that room, sometimes is so anxiety stricken for some people that it makes their brain be like, ÒOh, my gosh, I have no idea what I studied. I don't remember anything.Ó So, I think mocking that kind of test format with the ETS practice test that come with that advanced review book. I personally have never taken those that's why I don't really speak much on them. But I've heard that those are helpful as well.

Another resource, I think this is a little bias for me to say. But it is the resource that I created. When I was a graduate student, I, like Caitlin was saying before, grad school really tries to make you into a type A person, and I was just so not that, as much as I really tried to fit into that kind of mold. So, when I was studying for the Praxis, I'm just not someone who's a good test taker overall. I don't do well on standardized tests. I don't do well testing in general, but you put a mic in front of me and I could talk to you forever about things that I love.

So, tackling the Praxis was really hard for me, because I knew that I knew the information, but I knew that testing myself on the information would be really hard. So, I kind of resulted to memorizing, or at least trying to memorize the whole advanced review book, which was not helpful at all. I feel that we get into such the habit of trying to get the best grades that we kind of lead ourselves down a road of just trying to memorize the information for a test and then not actually internalizing it to understand it.

The resource that I created is called the SLP Test Prep and it is kind of geared towards students like I was in graduate school, who kind of want to steer away memorizing and actually want to focus on understanding the information and I'm someone who needs information broken down into like, very small pieces to understand it. I used to do that within myself in my own setting that I was like, maybe this could be helpful for someone else. I was that one student in grad school who everyone can always go to and say like, ÒHey, Sam, do you have a study sheet?Ó Because I always did, because I needed that visualization, of seeing the study material in different colors, organized differently on different charts. There has to be some sort of way that we can kind of transfer these different activities into studying for the Praxis.

I created what's called the SLP Test Prep, and it's a game-based kind of subscription model to help students study for the practice. What I do is every Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern Standard Time on Zoom, just like this, I present a Kahoot game. It's a new Kahoot game every week, except in the summer, when we kind of go on our little summer hiatus. But it's a new game every week. You have no idea the questions I'm going to ask you. And I think that's a big part of it, because you have no idea what questions are going getting on the Praxis practice. 

When you kind of show up to a test that you don't know what to expect, and you do that every week, it kind of eases you when you sit for the Praxis because youÕre like, ÒOkay, I've been in this situation before where I'm about to sit down, answer a whole bunch of questions that I don't know what's going to be thrown at me. And I have to keep practicing and learning how to answer questions on a time limit, how to look for the more salient information, and how to really understand the question that they're asking before I can choose an answer.Ó

So, kind of going through that motion every week on Zoom, and kind of forcing yourself to use that one hour that we meet every week to sit down and use that time undistracted studying is really helpful. So, within the games that we do every week, I also have created like over 70 worksheets, colorful worksheets, coloring pages, mix and match worksheets, matching, draw a line to, fill in the blanks, so many different types of worksheets for people who learn the way I do in a more visual way, in a more tactile way, in a more hands on way that you can really use those worksheets to kind of test those active recall skills.

Because when I was studying for the Praxis, I would stare at the book, read a paragraph, answer a question about it, get it wrong, and then convince myself, ÒOh, had this been the day of the Praxis, I would have miraculously got that question right.Ó Well, that's not true. It just means that I had to study that more. So, that's the SLP test prep. If you want to know more about it, if you're interested in joining, it is $35 a month. I tried to make it as cheap as possible for SLB grad students, because I know you guys probably haven't worked in at least the last year or two. So, it's $35 a month. It's on a month to month subscription basis, you can join and unsubscribe whenever, however many times you want. We also have a subscription that's a little cheaper at $15 a month for students who may not be ready to take the Praxis yet and want to take advantage of those worksheets. So, the $15 a month subscription gets you those worksheets. 

But really, it's just kind of a fun environment to study in a competitive, like, more friendly, competitive way, and it forces you to really just sit down and say, ÒOkay, I got that question wrong. Is it because I didn't know it and I have to study it more? Is it because I didn't understand the question? Or is it because something else?Ó It really helps you focus on the things that are really hard for you, as opposed to just studying the things that are easy, because it feels comfortable.

[MESSAGE]

[00:18:30] CL: Are you looking to move up on the pay scale? You can through SpeechTherapyPD.com, in collaboration with University of the Pacific. Start earning graduate level credits today. Courses are evidence-based and practical. Win-win. Check out SpeechTherapyPD.com, for more information on earning graduate level credits.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[00:18:50] CL: That is such a good point. The idea of studying the things that are comfortable and easy, versus the things that are harder, right? I remember studying things that made sense to me, like, motor speech with adults, because there was a sight of lesion. It made sense. There was an action plan to follow. Easier to assess maybe then, like, I remember Ð and of course, I think, a little bit has to do with passion and teaching style of professors too. That made it, I loved my adult neuro classes. They just made sense to me. And then, coming to childhood language, which is what I do now.

But looking at that and being like, ÒI don't know why this is why this is.Ó So, childhood language and like trying to memorize milestones and that kind of thing was just impossible for me.

[00:19:49] SW: Some of the information is really hard to grasp.

[00:19:51] CL: Right. Some information is really hard to grasp. Now, 11 years later, that's all I do and like you ask me a motor speech question or something related to WernickeÕs or Broca's aphasia, I'm not going to be able to answer you. I don't know. So, I think that that's such a good point to talk about study the things that are hard to study, versus the things that are fun, and comfortable to study. I love SLP Test Prep. I mean, I have it Ð I did poke around your website, and I was like, ÒOh, my gosh, I wish this existed when I was a student or somebody who's about to take the Praxis.Ó Because I think, ASHA back when I took it, you had two years to take it from when you graduated.

[00:20:37] SW: You need it to apply to your CCC-SLP, and ASHA gives you 48 months, so technically two years to complete your clinical fellowship. So technically, you have four years to take it after graduation, but you technically need it to apply to your CCC-SLP. This is like another point of advice that I've kind of created in my head based off of all of the stories I've heard from grad students. For those who are listening, you absolutely can wait until after graduate school to take your Praxis. Definitely check with your state because sometimes states require you to have a passing Praxis score before you graduate. And sometimes schools will require you to have a passing Praxis score before you graduate.

However, I do highly, highly suggest taking it before you graduate. The reason I say this is because from the people who've waited until their clinical fellowship to take the Praxis, they said they were in such a different mentality after crossing that stage and getting their diploma that now they work a full-time job, and the last thing they wanted to do is come home and study. So, I highly suggest taking it while you're in grad school, because you're still in that mentality. By your last semester, you'll know enough to pass the Praxis. They'll still be kind of in that area where you're ready to learn and ready to take the standardized tests, as opposed to graduating and then being like, ÒOh, my gosh, I'm done. I just don't want to do any of this anymore.Ó

[00:22:03] CL: I think that's such an excellent point, and to make that, in terms of why wait. You're in that mode already. I think that's such an excellent point. In my program, they wanted us to take it so they knew if we needed extra help, or if we needed mentoring in that way. They were more than happy to do that for us. I think our year, our cohort was the first year that they did that, because they were having students that were waiting way after and then they couldn't apply for their Cs. I think that they were reaching out to the professors for, ÒHey, can you mentor me? Can you help me with these things?Ó

So, I think that's such a great, such a great tip. I remember one of my professors said, as a graduation gift to yourself, do not take work home. I think that that's something that I really hold true to myself, when I do bring work home occasionally, it's like, ÒOh, I'm not giving myself this gift. I need to give myself this giftÓ, and then I feel guilty about it. But that's such a good point of you've worked so hard to get to this point, just enjoy that point. If you get it done, you get it done.

[00:23:07] SW: Exactly. Like you said, there are probably a lot more resources that you can kind of reach out to still while being a grad student. If you canÕt pass it, if you're having trouble passing it, you're still in grad school, you can still reach out to maybe some supervisors who teach subjects that you're really struggling in. There's a lot more resources and it's hard to feel so supported with taking the Praxis, especially if you're having a hard time passing it after you graduate.

[00:23:32] CL: That's it. Yes. You nailed it right there, that you don't have as much support. I can't imagine the failure I might feel even more so like, ÒOh, my gosh, I'm supposed to be good at this and I'm supposed to be here in the real world.Ó And then, who do you turn to? Because that's kind of a little bit shame, which it shouldn't be. The Praxis is a difficult test. But I think that's a really good point too, about the support that is surrounding you, whether it's classmates that you can turn to, or professors if you feel comfortable asking them.

So, back to SLP test prep, I love what you've created. I was looking around at like the worksheets, the little ones that you do have for freebie available and your Kahoot game sounds like so much fun. How many students do you have join you?

[00:24:20] SW: It depends. There's kind of like waves of people who take the Praxis since it's not a test that you have to take a mandated kind of like, everyone has to take it in January. No. You can take it whenever the testing center has availability. So, it kind of goes in waves. I think the most I've ever had was like 200 and that's in February when a lot of people are taking the Praxis. I don't know if a lot of people take the Praxis in February, because that's always kind of what I say, or because that's always kind of the advice I give to people. Take it in February, start studying the December of your second year, because it gives you enough opportunity to kind of take it again before graduation if you fail it. It's also enough time away from, let's say, for school as a comprehensive exam, and graduation, because that's going to be an exciting time, and you don't want to take feeling excited away from yourself by having to like bog yourself down studying for this test.

But yes, the SLP Test Prep is so fun. We do definitely have a lot of fun in our Kahoot games. Yesterday was our 63rd Kahoot game. So, that was a lot of fun. Lately, we've been doing more topic-specific Kahoot games and I think that the students are having a lot of fun with that. For example, yesterday, we did a whole Kahoot on treatment for children who have language disorders, and I think that we get so stuck on kind of the foundation of speech pathology in grad school where we're talking about more research and theories and all of that, that it's hard to grasp language disordersÕ treatment. Because not many of us have experience with language disorders. As a speech pathologist, you start learning about language disorders, because you can relate to this client you had, and this client you had.

So, it's very hard to talk about language treatment more abstract as a grad student, especially if you don't have that. So, they had a lot of fun with that yesterday. I put memes in it. I put gifts in it all the time. We have lots of fun and all kinds of like, in hopes that the more fun we make studying, one, the more comfortable students will feel asking questions. And two, the easier it will be to kind of like internalize this information, because I always feel like when I was laughing while studying, I internalize the information a lot more.

[00:26:29] CL: Absolutely. I mean, we have research about that, right? Like when we're playing, we need way less synapses than if we're like working hard studying. I'm so glad you use that example of language disorders with children, because that was so hard for me to grasp in grad school. Now, it's like my favorite thing to treat. But I do remember just, how do I even study for this. There's not a real etiology. There's not a real plan of action in learning how to assess. I'm still, even now, 12 years later, learning how to do a better job of assessing and treating. I think that's so fun. And what a fun way for all of you guys to practice those questions together and have fun. I mean, that's the whole point, right?

[00:27:17] SW: I think you bring up a good point, too, before you said this, and I meant to comment down before that how, like, if I asked you to do a question about something that you're not currently treating students into dysphasia, or something like that, you'd probably look at me like, ÒSam, are you kidding me right now?Ó I tell that to students all the time. I say, the Praxis is probably one of the very few times you're going to feel the need to have to know everything. Because that is probably the one time that you'll ever need to kind of have to pull information about all these different kind of niche parts about speech pathology, and sit down and have to know all that information in your head.

All we need on the Praxis is a passing score. Never once has anyone outside of graduate school, in an interview, in Ð I'll openly talk about here, but in a more kind of like job specific type environment, never has anyone asked me what I got on the Praxis. They only cared that I graduated and that's really it. You don't have to get a beautiful score on the Praxis because most of the time, most people like, Caitlin, like I, we go into a nice part of speech pathology. And if you ask us about a different part of speech pathology, weÕll look at you like we're crazy. Because we all come out and we just kind of niche down, find what we absolutely love to do, and we stick with that, and we become experts in that, and that is more than okay, because that's what makes the world of speech pathology so beautiful.

[00:28:40] CL: Absolutely. Absolutely. The fact that there are people that want to work on dysphasia with stroke patients. I am so grateful for that. That was not something that I liked doing at all, but there are people who are so passionate about it. That really is what makes it so beautiful. And that is such a good point to remind students. I did have a grad student recently that I was telling her, it's okay. Like you said, this is the one time you're going to have to know everything, and it's stressful, and it's a lot. It's two years to learn everything and you feel like you know nothing, and that's okay. I still feel like I know nothing and I'm 12 years into the field.

[00:29:20] SW: Exactly. Exactly. I feel like we always have that constant idea in the back of our head that we don't know enough, because the world of speech pathology is forever growing, and it's so huge. I always tell students that knowing everything isn't the standard we're trying to meet, because we're never going to reach that standard. If we do reach that standard, then we can consider ourselves perfect, and that's when we close ourselves off to learning more things, and you're putting yourself at a disadvantage and so do your clients. Being perfect and knowing everything is never kind of the standard we're trying to meet. We're lifelong learners. As speech pathologists, you usually know more about one part of speech pathology than you do the other. But it's so normal to feel like you don't know everything, especially as a grad student, because, at least for me, I feel like I learned most of my clinical skills, doing clinical work and not in the classroom.

[00:30:16] CL: Yes. As you were talking about that, that idea of knowing everything. I always told my grad students that I supervise that I care more about their critical thinking skills than their actual knowledge base. So, how did you get to that idea? How did you get to that idea or that activity that you wanted to target? Why did you target things you targeted? I don't necessarily care what the information is. I want to hear your process about it, which is exactly what you're saying. That's the whole point of how we're going to work with our clients, to better their communication skills.

I also loved your tips with the ETS resources. I thought that was such a good idea, which I didn't do, and I think it would have helped ease anxiety for me of going to a library, locking myself in place for 115 minutes, and taking those practice test. I think that's such a good idea. And using them as like, okay, what do I need to study more? And just creating that mock environment, I think, would have been so helpful.

[00:31:23] SW: I think too, like a lot of stress related to the Praxis is because we stress so much about the unknown, right? So, we don't know what questions are going to be on there. What are they going to ask about? What topics is it going to be heavy in? What's the room I'm going to sitting and look like? Are people going to be noisy? There's so many things we can torture our brains with worrying about. But most of those things are out of our control, right? The questions that they asked you on the day you sit down for the Praxis is completely out of your control. But what you can control is sitting there and trying your best. And that's really all you can do.

Worrying about the Praxis, too, I mean, I've had grad students like day one of grad school be like, ÒHey, Sam. I got into grad school. I'm so excited. When should I worry about the Praxis?Ó These students are literally scheduling when they have to start worrying about something. It breaks my heart, because I always say, if you're worrying about something before it's even in the foresight, like you're putting yourself through it so many times. Worrying about the Praxis now, when it's not something that you have to do for like another year and a half, you're putting yourself through the stress of the practice now, and you're going to put yourself through the same stress in a year and a half. So, why waste that energy right now?

I know, of course, it's a lot easier said than done. But the Praxis is just another thing you're going to have to go through. It is multiple choice. I always like to tell this to students, too, because I think it comforts them a little. There is never going to be a version of the Praxis that you know the answer to every single question. Never. If I sat down for the Praxis today, there would never be a version where I knew every single question. Because I think that more based on that panic, we kind of sit down and the first question we look at where we're like, ÒI don't really know what the answer to this is. Whether that's question 1, 4, or 60.Ó We set ourselves into a panic, and we're like, ÒOh, my gosh, this is going to be horrible. I'm going to fail.Ó

But the more I tell you that you're not going to know every question, when you come to that questions be like, ÒOkay. This is what Sam was talking about. I have no idea what this answer is.Ó So, my suggestion when that happens is to, when you take the exam on the in the testing center, there's a couple of things at the top. You have a calculator at the top. You have the X button. You have the time button, and then you also have like a flag button. So, when you come across those questions that immediately set you into that whole like spiraling of panic, because you don't know the answer, mark it and move on.

There are so many other questions that you can answer. ItÕs not worth putting yourself through that like kind of mental spiral for this one question. There's 132. You will get to other questions. You will know other questions. A lot of the times, when students have kind of come back to me after passing the Praxis, they said, ÒI did that and I had so much of a clear brain after knowing that I finished all the questions, that when I went back to it, I knew the answer. It's just that my brain was so flooded.Ó Or the other is, ÒI still had no idea what the answer is, so I took an educated guess.Ó

[00:34:22] CL: I love that, that idea. And I do remember flagging them on mine, where I was like, I don't know. I flag it, and then come back at the end. I do know that that's how my brain works is like, I don't know, I'm not going to spend time on this. I'd rather spend time on ones that I can figure out and then I'll come back.

So, I think that's such a great point, and such a true statement in terms of you're never going to know everything on the Praxis. I think that there's not going to be a single version of the Praxis that you don't know. Sort of related, but kind of unrelated like, Kristin Chmela, I saw in one of her courses on stuttering, and she said, ÒNobody's a perfect communicator.Ó Once our clients understand that, it kind of takes off the pressure. And it's the same thing here, this idea of like, nobody Ð I mean, has anybody gotten a perfect score on the Praxis? I don't think so.

[00:35:14] SW: I've had people get really close, and I'm like, ÒThat's impressive.Ó But never perfect. Being perfect is impossible. It's actually an impossible standard that we think that we're going to meet. But we never do. Going off with that too, like, you don't have to wait to be perfect to be proud of yourselves.

[00:35:35] CL: Right. I mean, be proud of yourself for sitting in that chair for 150 minutes and giving it your all. Even if you come out, and it doesn't go the way you planned, you at least have an idea of like, ÒOkay, now I know what to expect next time around.Ó So, you don't come out a loser. There's always something good about the situation, which I know, can be toxic positivity. But you have some clear direction the next time you go in, hopefully.

[00:36:06] SW: Yes. I always tell people who failed the Praxis, I'm like, ÒListen, give yourself however much time you need. If you're someone who needs five minutes, make yourself sad, and be sad for five minutes, that's fine. If you're someone who needs three days to treat yourself to whatever, because you're sad you failed the Praxis, do that.Ó But I always say, ÒFeel the feelings that you have, acknowledge them, go through the motions to feel them. And then when you're ready, let's do this again.Ó It's totally fine. There have been hundreds, maybe even thousands of SLPs who have failed the Praxis and we can talk about why. But I'm sure that would be like another four-hour podcast. But it happens. I got one point above passing and I consider myself a successful SLP. Standardized test like that is just another thing that we have to do together our CCC-SLP.

In the real world, as long as we pass it, we don't get it held over our head. It's just kind of like a pass-fail thing. We have to do it and that's it.

[00:37:03] CL: Absolutely. Absolutely. I know, in the state of California, you don't even need your Cs to practice in the schools, you just need your state license. And I'm pretty sure they just make sure it's a passing score. I don't think I've had to upload my Praxis up to like my resumes or my applications for practicing in the school setting. I have to apply upload my C best, but that's nothing compared to the Praxis.

It's so true. It's like this really, really stressful thing that really in the end, it doesn't matter. Just kind of like your grades in grad school too. I remember trying so hard and working so hard, because I wanted these amazing internships to find an amazing job, and I ended up not even going that route. I ended up going to the school setting, which it's almost like, ÒOh, you're breathing? Yes. Come work for us.Ó

[00:37:54] SW: Yes, literally. The Praxis is hard and it makes me sad kind of how much students kind of stress about it, because it's just another standardized test. And as we know, for most standardized tests, like they're just not very fair. I mean, if you ask many Ð I've had SLPs who have come back after practicing for 20 years, they let their ASHA CCC lapse, they have to take the Praxis again, they join my SLP Test Prep, and they're like, half of this, I don't even remember from graduate school.

So, it's really crazy. I mean, we're going down a deep hole here, so I'll try this out myself before I go too deep. But it's pretty crazy how we're asking graduate students to take a test for them to know so much information when most of this information doesn't even kind of help us on a daily. Never in a situation where we have to know all this information kind of spot on. I feel like we could change the Praxis to something more verbal, something more like, here's a tissue box, plan an entire speech therapy session off of that, because I feel like that's more realistic, and based off of your kind of SLP skills, then this exam is. But pulling myself out of that hole, because we're not going to go down there.

Try not to put too much pressure on yourself to pass the first time is another thing I like to tell students, because if we go in there pressuring ourselves, like we have to pass, we have to get a good score, you're setting yourself up for disappointment for that slight opportunity that you maybe don't pass.

[00:39:23] CL: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Nobody asks you how many times did it take you to pass. The only people who might ask you are your classmates, but only because you're probably talking all together about taking the Praxis and when you're going to take it. There's no gold star you get for passing it the first time. There's no gold star for getting a near perfect score or gold star for that. So, I think those are all really good things to keep in mind to help take some of that pressure off. I think you've made some great points. What is one actionable strategy that listeners can do to start preparing for Praxis now?

[00:40:01] SW: Yes. I think I've what I've gotten, and I've been doing the SLP Test Prep for a little over a year now, and I think kind of like the most helpful piece of advice that I've given students, as far as the way of studying for the Praxis is, as hard as it is, we want to focus on the things that are hard for us, right? Because the more we build on the information we know about the topics that are hard for us, the more we're kind of building this larger knowledge base we have in our head to be able to use that information to then apply it to those scenario based questions, because not everything on the Praxis is like, what's the nerve that innervates this muscle? Some of it is more critical thinking and problem-solving questions that you need to have some sort of background information on.

So, the way I like to help people guide their studying, and I'm just going to say it in the way of as if you're someone in the SLP Test Prep, but this can be taken for anyone who does just review questions. What I always suggest is, do the Kahoot or do you review questions and write down the topic or the questions you're getting incorrectly. So, let's say you got a flaccid dysarthria question incorrect. You finished the Kahoot or you finish the test questions you're doing, and then when you don't want to be answering questions and you want to be studying the topics or the questions that you wrote down, is how you should guide your independent studying, right? 

So, we got a flaccid dysarthria question wrong. Now, we wrote that down. But now what? Take it a step further, and study, or you study the advanced review book or your notes, and write down five important things about flaccid dysarthria. The site of lesion, the symptoms, the cause, some treatment opportunity. Write five things you should know about flaccid dysarthria. So, that eventually, after you've gotten a certain number of questions wrong, you eventually start to create this study sheet that's personalized to you, and all the things that are hard for you, right? 

Maybe it's that flaccid dysarthria question, and then you have an aphasia question, and a language disorder question. Eventually, you'll have this huge study sheet of five things under a bigger topic that you, at some point, got a question wrong for, and that's a perfect thing to study. That's not just you reading something over and over and over again. Because it's like, are you internalizing it? Are you actually remembering it? Are you able to use that information to then use on a more critical thinking question? It's all about active recall.

The way that you can kind of work this into the SLP Test Prep, if you do end up subscribing is we have a lot of worksheets. So, let's say I got a question wrong about flaccid dysarthria, you can go to our dysarthria worksheet and work through it. So, all of our worksheets, the first page is filled in. It's all the information there. And then on the following pages, I take things out. So, on the second page, I'll take maybe four things out of the chart. On the next page after that, maybe take 10 things out. Also that you can go through the pages, and slowly start being able to say like, ÒOkay, this goes here. I know this has to do with thisÓ, and connecting it, so that by the last page, you can fill on that whole entire chart by yourself. Because day by day, you started understanding and learning all the information.

That's our test prep. But that kind of personalized study sheet will really help you guide your studying in a more effective way. Because no one wants to sit down after a full day of graduate school and study after spending a whole day in clinic, after spending a whole day in class. So, give yourself an hour. It could be every other day. It can be every day. Do this, do the Kahoots, do any kind of test prep questions that you can, and think about more of the quality of your studying than the quantity.

A lot of the times people say to me or a question I get asked a lot is, ÒWell, how much should I study?Ó I'm like, ÒWell, that's a really hard question to answer, because I can tell you to study for four hours. But in those four hours, you could have gone to McDonald's, you could have taken a bath, you could have did all these things, instead you were studying.Ó But when you're sitting down to study, put your phone away. Put whatever distracts you away and set a time. It could be 10 minutes. It could be 50 minutes. It can be an hour. But whatever time you set, study for that time, distraction free because if you get distracted, you're just making your studying way longer than it has to be.

Most of our brains work in like short time spans. Sit down, devote your time for 15 minutes to studying that flaccid dysarthria and those five things. Memorize it, talk yourself through it, really understand it. Those 10 minutes are probably more effective than if you sat down for an hour and a half on your phone talking to someone all of that. Make your studying effective.

[00:44:43] CL: I absolutely love it. I know at first when we were talking about like, ÒOkay, what are we going to talk about?Ó And we said, Praxis. I was like, ÒHow are we going to talk about the Praxis for an hour?Ó But here we are, talking about the Praxis for an hour.

I love your suggestions. I mean, I know that this is going to sound crazy, but I was like, ÒOh, I totally would love studying for something right now.Ó That idea of making your own worksheet for yourself of what are the five things I need to know. What does that flaccid dysarthria look like? How can I assess it? How do I treat it? And then, writing that all out for myself, and really working through the information in a way that's integrative, I think, would be so helpful, whether it comes to Praxis. I mean, that's also something you can apply to comps. I love, love, love your strategy for that. I think that's brilliant.

And your point about quality over quantity, I remember studying for Praxis with my cohort, just a few of us had gotten together at somebody's house, and I did nothing for four hours. I think I ate pizza, and just distracted everybody else, to be honest. I remember walking away and being like, ÒOh, my gosh, it's midnight on a Saturday night and I did nothing.Ó When I could have gone to a movie, hung out with other friends, not people I see all the time, and I just think that's such a good point of make your time worth it.

[00:46:12] SW: It also bleeds into graduate school too. I think that we have this mentality of all or nothing and I don't say it with like that disgusted face. But I say more because like, I do this myself too. I have this all or nothing mentality where it's like, if I don't know everything, then I know nothing. Or if I don't get a good grade, then I'm going to be a horrible SLP. Or if I don't study for five hours today, then I did nothing.

[00:46:37] CL: Yes. I totally agree with you, because I think I look at so many areas of my life where I'm like that, instead of just, ÒOkay, let me just do 15 minutes today. Fifteen minutes is better than nothing.Ó

[00:46:49] SW: Talking about that with my mom this morning. Because she was like, ÒI have such a long to-do list.Ó And I was like, ÒLook at your to-do list, and everything in your to-do list, you don't have to finish. You can start something for five minutes, and you work on it for five minutes today.Ó

[00:47:03] CL: Yes. I think that's such a good point of like, okay, I have 15 minutes right now to look at flaccid dysarthria, figure it out, and then get a snack, do something else. And then maybe I can come back in another 15 minutes, look at that voice question that I didn't quite understand. I think that's such a good point of quality over quantity. So, I do have to ask, how did you get so passionate about the Praxis?

[00:47:26] SW: I don't really know how I got here. This was all by mistake. I expected myself just to kind of be like outside of the world of speech pathology. I'm very Ð I don't know, I'm more of a shy person. So, I seriously have no idea how I ended up here. But I think, it's because I'm basically trying to be what I needed in graduate school. Because I was that type of student that just submerged myself in all things graduate school, that I was burnt out before my second semester. Or then, when I eventually started my clinical fellowship, Speaking of Samantics was born, and then I started talking to graduate students, and I started to just kind of feel that there wasn't enough out there for graduate students, or there was so much more for licensed SLPs, that in my head, I'm just like, ÒWhy aren't we helping the grad students?Ó It felt like they were just like, ÒPlease, someone help usÓ, especially because they were going through the pandemic. So, a lot of them were expecting to go to an in-person school that's now online, and they're doing some new case, instead of Ð it's a mess.

But I knew I wanted to start something for the Praxis because I had a feeling that studying from a textbook couldn't be the only way to study for this test. My first original kind of thought about it was doing a podcast, but I have such a love for games. I'm that one person that I carry around like a duffle bag of board games with me to every social gathering. I'm pretty known for that in my family now. They're like, ÒOkay, Sam, when are you going to bring out the games?Ó I kind of combined two passions, my love for helping graduate students and my love for games, and kind of just figured, let's start asking questions in a more fun way.

We're still studying for the Praxis but it's in a lot less Ð it's in a more kind of, I feel like I've created a safer environment for students to ask questions and not feel like they have to know everything at all times. Because I feel like learning in an environment where you can make mistakes and you can say like, ÒHoly crap, I've never heard this. I've never learned this. Teach me more about it.Ó That that was always kind of a better environment for me to learn. So, that's how this was born. I don't plan to stop it anytime soon, because I love it. And now, I've started doing it live on the ASHA conventions, which is even more fun. You get the professors and the faculty involved. So all that is fun. But yes, I just have a super love for graduate students and kind of helping them along their journey.


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[00:49:57] CL: Are you taking advantage of the certificate tracker? Not only does it store your certificates from all of your evidence-based and practical courses from SpeechTherapyPD.com, but you can also upload certificates earned from other CE providers. It's the easiest way to store and keep track of your CEUs, just another perk of membership.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]

[00:50:21] CL: Awesome. I love that. I love that's how this was all born. And it's so funny to me to hear that you are a shy person. So, I met Sam at CSHA, and there was like, just warms of SLPs following her everywhere she went. She overheard me where I was just joking with another friend of mine, ÒOh, I wonder if she'll sign my badge.Ó Then, she turns around, and I was like, ÒOh, my gosh, she's looking at me.Ó Sam is just so kind, took the time to talk to everyone who wanted to stop and talk with her. I was just really impressed with your genuine kindness and your genuine care for graduate students that were coming up to you as well.

I know that this really is a passion project of yours, and not just something that you do to make money on the side. This is really your passion project. And you've inspired me to really dig deeper with my graduate students, and not just, ÒOh, yes, you're here for me to show you something, and giving you a space to grow.Ó But really caring for them. Graduate school is a much different place than it was when I was in graduate school. I think it was starting to get to that place of competitiveness that we see now. But it wasn't when I was there. So, I'm realizing, as much as the field changes, graduate school changes too, and the experience of it changes too.

[00:51:43] SW: Well, I meet people in person who follow me on Instagram. You guys are the nicest people. But Caitlin, what she said to me, stuck out to me so much, because she said, ÒI was so scared to meet you, because I was afraid that you weren't going to be as nice as you were on the Internet, in personÓ, which is such a true concern. Because a lot of the times and I mean, you'll see it in the speech world, too. You have people who have a lot of followers and it gets to their head and they become a celebrity. I never want to get there. Everyone, we're all on the same level. We're all friends, we're all colleagues, we all support each other, and we all love each other. When I started Speaking of Samantics, I never thought that I was going to be someone that had like a larger following.

But I made a promise to myself that whether I have one follower or 100,000 followers, that I'm always going to be true to who I am, because I'm never going to please everyone. And if I start making this page trying to please everyone, I'm going to become a fake version of myself. So, that's how I just stay true to myself. I love graduate students, and I think that the change in speech pathology starts with graduate students.

[00:52:52] CL: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's that true, like, they're our future. Something that really scared me too, was seeing how many graduate students or newly graduated SLPs are starting to leave the profession. Of course, there's a lot that's like burning up right now all over the world, right? We know that we're not getting the reimbursement rates that we want to on the medical side. To be completely transparent, the dumpster fire that is education right now. 

So, we need these graduate students, especially right now, as my district is talking about what caseloads are going to look like for next year? And how many hires? And are we going to be able to hire enough SLPs, when we have three graduate programs that are driving distance to our district? So, it's scary to me to think about how they are really hesitant to enter into the field, or they only last a few years. Whereas if we can give them that support while they're in grad school, help them make those connections, and then carry those connections through their first few years as an SLP.

[00:54:01] SW: Right. I get a lot of grad students on my page, especially lately, because I feel like I've been talking about a lot of more controversial kind of topics. But I've had a lot of students recently reached out and said, ÒWith the stuff you post, you kind of really scared me to go into graduate school.Ó I say, ÒWell, my intention is never to scare you.Ó But me, I'm someone who went into graduate school, absolutely blind. I had no idea what I was going into. I was like bright eyed and bushy tailed, ready to just think that this is going to be a walk in the park, and it absolutely wasn't. And I would rather prepare you to know what you're about to walk into, and also give you the confidence knowing that you are not alone in the feelings that you're probably going to have. At the end of the day, you're also a worthy person of being there in graduate school, and you're going to be great.

[00:54:51] CL: Absolutely. None of us have a perfect day of being an SLP. I can probably tell you 15 times I messed up today, right? And that's just today alone, that I think that that's something to remind students. Because I know that's something that I Ð when I have my grad students, it's like, when I ask you questions, I don't expect you to actually know the answer. I just want to know where you are at, so I know what kind of support to give you. It has nothing to do with how much I'm judging you as like, ÒOh, you're prepared for this or you're not prepared.Ó 

The only time that I do judge that is if I've asked you to prepare for a specific thing, and I've given you that support, and you still are having a hard time with that. But that happens very few and far between. So, yes, I'm always reminding my graduate students, ÒHey, it's okay. I'm here because I think you know nothing. And so, if you know something that's going to Ð I'm already impressed. It's okay. It's okay. When I ask you questions, it's just so I can gauge the level of support that you need.Ó

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you so much, Sam. Real quick, I just have to ask, can you share your Praxis story?

[00:55:57] SW: Sure. Took the Praxis with my best friend. We signed up together. We told really no one else. I slept over at her house the night before. We had a conversation and said like, ÒWell, what's going to happen if you pass and I fail, or I fail and you pass, are we still going to go get margaritas after?Ó We had to make sure we knew what we were doing. Because the truth is like, it would have been really awkward had it been a situation where like, she passed and I failed, or vice versa, because I would want to be happy for her. I sat there. I tried my hardest. I got 163. That was one point above passing and that is all that I need. Now, I do the Praxis every day because of my SLP Test Prep. But that's my story. It was really scary. I always tell people to celebrate after no matter what, because sitting in that room for 150 minutes, is pretty stressful.

[00:56:53] CL: It is. I think I signed up the last date that I could, by my programs. Hey, you need to say that by this date. So that if you have to take it again, you can take this next date, whatever it was.Ó The date that I signed up for, it was in a whole another county, and I was so nervous my mom drove me, which I was so grateful for. One of her best friends lived in that county, and so she went out and hung out with her, and they came back. 

But I did tell Sam the story. There was a guy who took the Praxis with me who on his forearm had the vowel quadrilateral tattooed, and I always wondered if that was cheating. As far as I know, he like, passed Praxis. It wasn't cheating. But I just remember thinking, what a strange tattoo to have. I mean, I love speech therapy. But I don't know that I would choose the vowel quadrilateral on my forearm. If he's listening, hope you're doing well in your life, and I took the Praxis with you.

[00:57:54] SW: I could put a tattoo Ð

[00:57:59] CL: Anyway, do you know what the price of the Praxis is?

[00:58:03] SW: I believe it is still $142. And if you fail the Praxis, there's not a limited amount of time you can take it. You can take it as many times as you want. You just have to pay each time to take it.

[00:58:16] CL: Okay. Good to know. All right, Sam. So, as we recap, can you give us your three things we should know your two resources and your one actionable strategy?

[00:58:28] SW: Of course. So, the three things that you should know about the Praxis, number one, is that you've got 150 minutes, or 132 questions. Number two, is that you need a 162 either unofficial or official score to pass the Praxis. If you don't sign up and send your scores when you sign up, you're going to have to spend $50 per score report that you want to send. And right off the bat, you're going to eventually have to send it to ASHA and your state.

The two resources that I'd like to share are the ETS Practice Tests and the SLP Test Prep. The SLP Test Prep you can find on Instagram. The Instagram username is @slptestprep. And the one actionable strategy for preparing would be that more personable kind of study sheet. So, when you're going to test questions, or when you go into the Kahoot as part of the SLP Test Prep, write down the topics or the questions that you're got incorrect, and then write down four to five, maybe facts, or important things to know about it so that you're eventually kind of creating that personalized study guide for topics that were hard for you.

[00:59:36] CL: All right. I do have a final question, just because I am so curious. You study for the Praxis every single week, you're creating the study materials, do you feel like you would do better now than you did then? I mean, not that it matters.

[00:59:50] SW: Honestly, I think about going back to take the Praxis way more than I'd like to admit, because I'm curious about that as well. But because I help people prepare for it, I never wanted to kind of look like that I'm going to take the test and then helping people Ñ I don't know, I just feel weird about going to take it, and I never want to like look like if I'm going to look for the answers.

But I am very curious about that too. I do feel a lot smarter. I do feel like I'm able to give out information a lot more about these things that I wish I studied like this in graduate school. I wish I kind of understood the way that I worked with studying and didn't kind of try to mold myself into the way that everyone else in the library was studying, that I feel like I would have learned more or gotten more out of graduate school had I focused more on actually understanding the information, and not just memorizing it to pass an exam.

[01:00:40] CL: Absolutely. Absolutely. I guess that was a weird question, because the whole point of our conversation is to tell everyone your score doesn't matter. I mean, not the whole point. And here I am, like, do you think you do better? 

[01:00:52] SW: No, itÕs a valid question. I mean, my boyfriend asks me all the time. He's like, ÒOkay, so like, when are you going to take this test yourself? You study for it all the time.Ó I'm like, ÒI would love to. But I also don't know if I want to put myself in that testing room again.Ó

[01:01:05] CL: Right. Well, and I guess, because as you were talking about, ÒOh, we did this topic of childhood language disorders, then make a test sheet, or a practice sheet for yourself on flaccid dysarthria.Ó As you were talking, I was like, ÒAre there any SLPs who could just rattle these things off like Sam could?Ó However many years, after graduation, I was like, ÒI don't know.Ó I mean, flaccid dysarthria is not a term that I have heard, at least in the last five years, at least.

[01:01:39] SW: It's hard. Sometimes and I read back, because I've purchased a lot of textbooks, to have a lot of resources to help create these questions, to make sure that I'm like up to date with the most relevant information to help these students prepare, that some of this stuff I'm like, ÒOh, my gosh. If I was tested on this, like without having to like be able to study before, I would not pass.Ó Sometimes like again, I'm not perfect either. I've put the wrong answer as correct on Kahoots, sometimes. I'm telling you, these students, they're on it. They're like, ÒSam, you got that wrong.Ó I'm like, ÒYou know what, I'm proud of you for realizing that because that means that you understand the information.Ó

[01:02:17] CL: That's awesome. I love that. I'm proud of you for using your critical thinking skills.

[01:02:23] SW: Exactly.

[01:02:23] CL: That's awesome. Trick question everyone. I love that. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sam, for giving us a little over an hour to just discuss the Praxis. Hopefully, our listeners are feeling much more comfortable. Those of you that are listening, please share with your friends if they're taking the Praxis, and definitely, definitely reach out to Speaking of Samantics on Instagram. 

If you're a grad student, you absolutely need to follow her. If you're going to be a grad student, I check this post all the time, she asks for newly accepted students to post in where they're going to school. And I'm checking it all the time to see if there's anybody that's going to be in my area, so I can reach out to them and let them know like, ÒHey, I'm here. I'd love to help out with you.Ó So, Sam, thank you for the light, and the resource that you are. Are there any other ways that people can get in touch with you?

[01:03:20] SW: So, I ran a few Instagram pages. You can message me on @speakingofsamantics. Samantics is spelled S-A-M not S-E-M. The SLP Test Prep Instagram, I also run. ThatÕs @slptestprep. The @slpgradclub is another thing that I also run. That's on Instagram. You can email me at speakingofsamantics@gmail.com. But most the time, I'll answer Instagram the quickest because I'm absolutely addicted to my phone. But yes, reach out if you have any questions, I'm the type of person where there's no stupid questions, so you can ask me whatever.

[01:03:58] CL: Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Sam. Thank you to our listeners and we will see you all back here soon.

[01:04:05] SW: Thank you so much. Bye, guys.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

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