eleanor-tweddell.mp3

[00:00:00] Oh, such an addiction, isn't it? I'm completely with you. Three a.m. in the morning, you're checking your emails. Like what? What's going on there? So for me, that's the being calm and trying to train yourself to be in control of your emotions. So one of the things I realized is I have a choice of how I'm responding to any of this stuff that's happening to me. And I didn't feel like that at the beginning. But I've been reading a book. I've been researching. I was trying to help myself feel less anxious, feel less worried. And one of the key things was feel like you're in control and talk to yourself and say, you know, you're doing the best you can. What will be will be.

[00:00:59] What's up, everybody? Welcome to the artists of Data Science podcast, the only self development podcast for Data scientists. You're going to learn from and be inspired by the people, ideas and conversations that'll encourage creativity and innovation in yourself so that you can do the same for others. I also host open office hours. You can register to attend by going to Italy dot com forward. Slash a d. S o h. I look forward to seeing you all there. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode. And don't forget to subscribe to the show like a five star review.

[00:01:51] Our guest today is here to help us reframe how losing your job could be the best thing that's ever happened to you.

[00:01:58] She's got twenty three years of corporate experience working for brands like Costa, A Virgin Atlantic, Vodafone and others in functions ranging from sales to leadership development and corporate communications. She's decided that it's time to do something else. So she's helping people reimagine their future through the work she's doing with her company. Another door, another door is all about encouraging people to see that there is space in between, a door closing in, another door opening. And in her role there, she works with her clients to explore possibilities, create ideas and put actions in place to make things happen for you. So please help me. Welcoming our guest today, a woman who believes that out of stubbornness, you can find another door. Eleanor, Tweddell and Eleanor, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be on the show today. I appreciate you stopping by.

[00:02:55] Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure, Eleanor.

[00:02:58] I'm so excited to get into some of the stuff, talk about some of the stuff in your book. First, let's learn a little bit more about you. So where did you grow up and what was it like there?

[00:03:07] Yes. Way back. Way back when. So I am originally from the north of England on the Scottish border.

[00:03:15] Some people might know it as the Lake District, which is an incredibly beautiful place in England. Lots of people come and visit for their holidays. But the interesting thing, I guess, about it is when you grow up there, you don't appreciate it. You don't want to be there. You want to see the bright lights of the city. So as soon as I could, I moved to London and went to university and worked there for the next 20 years.

[00:03:40] So I'm curious what kind of kid you're like in high school, like what did you think your future would look like?

[00:03:46] So I was always probably quite creative. I mean, probably a mixture because we in a rural part of England so I'm from a farming background, is very influenced by that. And it does feel a bit isolated where where we're at. But I was always really curious, but I should sort of say that that was the era and it's going to take me here. But knowing to that to this point, you know, there's none of that. We did have a TV, but it only had four channels. So my curiosity kind of centered around the library in the city city called Carlisle. And I used to go there and read books about business. And I have no idea why or how I would do that. Some things you just, you know, just comes to you. But I really wanted to work for Saatchi Saatchi, a famous advertising company here. And I think now globally, that was my dream. And I did all the sort of research around that. I was obsessed in advertising. And that's where it sort of grew my curiosity for corporate life because there's no head offices in Cumbria. Let me tell you, they may be a few. I'm going to get in trouble if people can come here. This may be few, but you felt like you had to move out to explore that. So, yeah, that was probably what I was like. I was curious and I knew that I wanted something a bit different to what I had around me. But who knows how to get it? I have no idea.

[00:05:19] So how different is your life now than what you had imagined it would be?

[00:05:24] That's kind of very interesting because I've probably come full circle. So I moved away. I went to London, I studied, I got the corporate job and that's where I was for 20 years. I moved a lot in that. I moved where the opportunities were. And then now I'm full circle. I'm back in the Lake District and I run my business from my home.

[00:05:46] So it's almost full circle. So maybe not too far away from what I actually wanted to be, which which is quite impressive, I guess, for that 12 year old that made me believe that she wanted just a little bit more than what was on offer.

[00:06:01] So how did these experiences that you had culminate in your book, the new book being why losing your job can be the best thing that ever happened to you? Talk about how kind of the genesis of that book.

[00:06:14] Well, first of all, welcome for pronouncing it because it's such a tongue twister, isn't it? One of those titles? It's very catchy, but very tongue twister. So I think, again, the theme for me, which I've just realized by reflecting on my life and decisions I've made, is that my curiosity?

[00:06:34] And that's probably where the book came from after corporate life and I got made redundant. I lost my job a few years ago. I just had this overwhelming sense that I wanted something more and it probably was that same feeling. It was from my high school days of is this it, you know, there's got to be something more out there. This can't be just what life is. So yet again in corporate life, I kind of got to be honest, bored of it if you want to be very basic about it. But I had no idea what else was out there. So being curious and just starting to open up to things that maybe felt a bit uncomfortable was where the book started. It started as a little notebook with me just scribbling down what's going on? What's my ideas, tapping into my emotions. Because, you know, it's not right losing your job. You're not in a great state. So the first bit was get a notebook and just scribble down everything that's in your head. And that's where it started for me.

[00:07:34] Yeah, because a lot of people who tend to define themselves by their job, by their work, and rightfully so, because having work in your life does bring more meaning into your life. I know there's a lot of people who have lost their jobs this year just due to all the madness that covid-19 has created for the global economy. And I really believe that your book could help some people make it through these tough, turbulent times. So I'd love to get into some parts of your book, starting with the first section, The Shock. What tips can you share with the audience to help manage that initial shock and not spiral downwards into despair?

[00:08:16] Yeah, and you're right. You know, it's such an important part of it. And the reason why I wrote it into the book was because for me, I almost jumped ahead of it. So when I lost my job, I kind of did what probably many people do. We all just jump into do mode and we go, OK, I was this. So in my case, I was communications. I will apply for a communications job. And I just got on LinkedIn and, you know, well, the recruitment agency platforms and applied button for anything that looked vaguely familiar to what I would be doing. And as you say, well, I thought my identity was and I just did did did that and, you know, got to the end of each day and I felt exhausted. And then, of course, what happens is you start getting the rejections through. So you apply for twenty five jobs that you don't really want. You're going to get 20 rejections. Of course you are, because you're not putting your heart and soul in it. So for me, I realized I had to slow down and I had to check in what is going on here. It is getting exhausting. So shock. I realized I had not acknowledged that I was going through loss and I was going through a grieving stage of trying to process what was happening. I just pushed through. I get on with it.

[00:09:35] You're in panic. You need to get a job, just panic zone. And actually, that's no good. You're just it's almost like, you know, when your your car get stuck in mud and you just pressing that red button, all you're doing is spreading muck everywhere. It's a little bit like that. So that's how it felt to me. So shock was an important chapter that I almost wrote last, because when I reflected, I felt like, oh, you just didn't do this very well. It's probably good to say as well at this point that the book was my way of healing. So I wrote it during me being out of work because several years later I was at work again for various reasons, and I started really writing the book and exploring it. But to help me so shock really helped me to just calm, be kind to myself and just do that check in.

[00:10:27] So one of the tips in shock is to treat it as a loss, say goodbye to the door, closing properly. Don't be afraid to take time to almost celebrate it. Now, what are you saying goodbye to? What were the good, great moments that you would like to cherish and have memories of and write it all down and also write down? Well, when were the moments when it wasn't so great? Because all of this stuff is actually great clues for how you going to energize yourself to then go forwards as well as closure to helping you to resect and go forward. So I'd say be really kind of yourself.

[00:11:03] It's OK to Wallow 088, not to feel all right about this. And then that's almost like your recharge period of time that then you can go, OK, I'm ready to reset and go again.

[00:11:17] What's up, artists? I would love to hear from you. Feel free to send me an email to the artists of Data Science at Gmail dot com. Let me know what you love about the show. Let me know what you don't love about the show and let me know what you would like to see in the future. I absolutely would love to hear from you. I've also got open office hours that I will be hosting and you can register by going to Bitly.com/adsoh dot com forward slash. A d s o h. I look forward to hearing from you all and I look forward to seeing you in the office hours. Let's get back to the episode. And when you're out there and you're paying for all these different jobs.

[00:12:04] Right, like sometimes you might get really attached to the outcome of a single job. And it's happened to me when I was job hunting, I would apply for a job and I was like, oh, man, I'm super excited for this opportunity. Constantly just checking my email. Have they gotten back to me, having gone back to me getting phantom rings on my phone, hoping that a recruiter is calling? How do you deal with that?

[00:12:25] Oh, such an addiction, isn't it? I'm completely with you. 3:00 a.m. in the morning. You're checking your emails. Like what? What's going on there? So for me, that's the being calm and trying to train yourself to be in control of your emotion. So one of the things I realized is I have a choice of how I'm responding to any of this stuff that's happening to me. And I didn't feel like that at the beginning. But I've been reading a book. I've been researching. I was trying to help myself feel less anxious, feel less worried. And one of the key things was feel like you're in control and talk to yourself and say, you know, you're doing the best you can.

[00:13:04] What will be will be. That's all you can do. All you can do is the best thing. And one of the turning points for me was not to attach to outcomes.

[00:13:13] You're so spot on that we get hung up on it. And actually that's not our responsibility, our responsibility to do really good input for our heart and soul into one or two things. You really, really want, you know, do the connection on LinkedIn, find the person who is recruiting, send them a personal email, try and research the company, the job, everything. You can put heart and soul into the application form and then let go of it into the world. And it's not your accountability for what happens next. You have to then move on to the next thing. And it's almost resat really hard. I get it. I completely get it. But if you can try and practice that each day of focusing on just doing three things today that's going to help me move forward, things start to feel better and more in control. So, yeah, we get a bit attached to like, oh, I've probably missed an email or, you know, refresh, refresh.

[00:14:06] And then we get an awful email that says, thank you very much for your application. You've been unsuccessful so much into that. It's a real blow and it's just so much more to get going. So, yes, trying to kind of do things and take action, but almost move on straight away without thinking about the outcome will certainly help you.

[00:14:28] So just everything that you can possibly control just to optimize for that and make sure that no misspellings on your resume, make sure that you're accurately reflecting your capabilities on your resume, make you're writing a really good reach out letter and just whatever it is that is within your control, focus on that and then everything else. Just ignore it, right. Because you can't control what happens on the other end.

[00:14:51] Right, exactly. Yeah. And there's no magic formula despite all of the headlines. I know your best CV, your best this year, but we have no idea what the recruiter is looking for on the other side of the fence.

[00:15:05] So all you can do is exactly what you described, put your heart into it, but you head into it and feel like, OK, I've done the best job I can. But being brutal and very honest, the problem is not everyone does that. So, you know, I, I didn't I just pressed the button on LinkedIn and hope for the best. And then of course, I got lots of rejections that's not in heart and soul into it. So you've got to be a bit honest with yourself about, you know, you want three jobs and you really, really want them.

[00:15:36] And because that's what will make you stand out from the crowd really well, it will make you shine, because I could guarantee you that if there's one hundred applications, there's probably only ten people. That's the heart and soul in the rest of just like me and press the button.

[00:15:52] And it's a good idea to kind of temper your expectations when you apply for a job, because like you mentioned, there's probably one hundred. And I mean, if your data science is probably thousands of people applying for the same job, so you have to approach it like it's a statistic like you literally from the get go have a one in one hundred one in one thousand chance of even ultimately landing the role. So it's kind of temper your expectations at the start of the process and kind of update as you go, right?

[00:16:19] Yeah, to a degree, yes. But I'd also say if you see something that's really close to a drill, we hear a lot about dream jobs. But if it's an organization you really want to work for, you've done the research you've done, you've done the graft to get you closer into understanding what they're all about that will put you ahead. No, actually, yeah, there might be two hundred people of that up, but they will only be a small percentage of people who have really done the graph. So actually, you're right, to a degree it's about to.

[00:16:49] But actually, you're not competing against that full two hundred people. It's the top people that have put effort in that you're competing against. So, yeah, if you see something that absolutely sings out to you and you're like, oh, my goodness, this is everything. Make sure you tell him it's your everything.

[00:17:08] And once that initial shock is over, some people might feel overwhelmed or paralyzed by fear, paralyzed into inaction, just confounded by all the possible choices that that they have in front of them. Now, what can we do during this period of stubbornness to make sure that we don't stay stuck or don't dig ourselves further into a hole of sadness and kind of get things moving again?

[00:17:32] Yeah.

[00:17:33] So one thing that might be worth it is I call it like play mindset, like literally, OK, this is not a great moment in time, but I'm going to play for a while. And if you shift your mind into that, look, nothing matters too much.

[00:17:49] Don't get too hung up about if this is the right career move, if things aren't quite working in your way, play with things. And by that I mean think about what would be your ideal tomorrow. So literally play with that, write it down and say everything came true for me tomorrow. What does that look like? What am I doing? Who am I working for? Who am I working with? Write it down in a lot of detail and play with it. And then the next step, I would say, is start to get brave with it.

[00:18:17] Pull out a message on LinkedIn and say, right, I am looking for a business that does this this best. Does anyone know this? Does anyone ever ask questions on LinkedIn, ask for advice, get conversations going around something that's made you curious, just get brave with with putting yourself out there in your ideal tomorrow space, because all of the action and again, like what you said before, you do it without expectation.

[00:18:42] But all of the action brings you closer to where you want to get to. But do it. Just saying just say, look, it's none of this matters. What's the best that can happen but could get a job from it. That's that's great. And the other thing I'd say about this is this moment in time is it's definitely not about all your dreams come true tomorrow. It's about one step, two step, three steps closer, closer. And getting things wrong is part of that. Being rejected is part of that. So just put on your brave pants and really go free and play.

[00:19:16] Sometimes we might have to take jobs that are nowhere near what we really want to be doing. Well, instead of thinking, oh, I'm going to have to do this, I feel happy about it. This is awful. Reframe it and say, OK, I'm going to take this. This will this will satisfy the financial part of this. But I'm still going to play I'm still going to have my ideal tomorrow. I'm still going to work towards something. And that whole shift in how you're telling yourself a story each day will help you get better.

[00:19:45] You talk about this art of wallowing in your book. So you talk to us about this like are there what are some bad ways to follow and what are some artful way through this?

[00:19:57] I, I love the art of wallowing. When I when I kind of again, this is my play space when I was exploring, like, how am I feeling? I'm not feeling great. It was actually another author, Paul Magee, who wrote a book about how not to worry and he talks about not wallowing sorry.

[00:20:14] He talks about wallowing and not resisting it. And he says actually it's part of your reset. It's part of how you come back stronger. So not good. Wallowing is probably doing all the things that we really want to do because we feel sorry for ourselves. Is lying on the sofa, watching Netflix all day, eating Ben and Jerry's ice cream, know awful things that we just know are not good for us.

[00:20:39] It's just satisfying. I sort of wallow, comfort, need, good wallowing is kind of taking that rest time, allowing yourself to go for walks, do bental exercise, exploring meditation, which, by the way, I had no clue what I was doing when I first started doing it, and it certainly wasn't something that I would have ever considered.

[00:21:00] And I'm still not very good now, but it helps people just slowing down and again, trying to have a bit of fun because wallowing almost feels like a bit sorry for yourself a bit more. That's all fine. It's all part of it. But can you imagine if you just feel like, well, you know what, I'm going to allow myself to laugh today how great that would be? It would just uplift you. And the next day you're like, yeah, I'm going to apply for that job. Hey, let's get brave. Let's go for it. The following is definitely part of that, checking in and keeping yourself in a healthy space so that when you need to go for peak performance, you've done that work in the past. Because if you think about it, what we're trying to do is push against so many emotions. That's where overwhelm comes from. So wallowing is part of that slowing down to help you to.

[00:21:50] And you got this really interesting concept in your book that I enjoyed reading about it called Flip Your Mind. I like I like that phrase and I like that concept. People talk to us about what that is and why it is particularly important to help us get unstuck.

[00:22:09] Yeah, flipping, flipping. My mind was actually I think it was quite life changing for me. I went to an event. I just signed up to a random event when I was out of work, free rent, listening to someone in the days that we could go to actual events. And this guy was talking about reframing and how you you actually think that you can only perceive events that happened to you in one way.

[00:22:37] But when you flip that, there's so many different ways that you could perceive something. So he gave the example of, you know, you you run for the bus and you miss the bus and your whole body goes, missed the bus. This is going to be terrible day. This is just my luck. Oh, this is just typical. Know, you tell yourself all of this stuff or you can grab that moment. You missed the bus and say, OK, I'm going to sit here. Actually, this is nice, quiet time, 10 minutes before the next one is just breathe. Actually, let's just relax. Nothing I could do about that. Actually, this is a nice time for me to maybe get my notebook out or scribble an idea down. It's reframing how you see things happening around you. And I just find it incredible that you can do that for everything. So in the in the job situation, you can execute exactly like my book suggests. You can say, oh, this is awful, this is terrible. My whole world is crashed around me. I can take a breath and say, oh, can I do something amazing? Because there's thousands, millions of people out there in the world that are taking the opportunity that they've lost the job, but they're going, hey, I'm going to grab this and do something amazing. So flipping your mind is really grabbing that moment and say, no, I'm owning how I respond to this. And yeah, it's amazing how many times you can do that in a meeting, as I say, on, you know, what happens to you in life or or in your career. But it's just taking that breath and choosing how you respond and it really help you rather than you expending energy on just the negative response that you might have just naturally gone for.

[00:24:16] You familiar with who Chocho Willink is? You know, so he's got he's a retired U.S. Navy SEAL. He's got a podcast as well, a bunch of different books as well as he's awesome guy. And he was asked on a podcast or whatever, how does he deal with setbacks, failures and things like that. And he said, I've got one four letter word for that and that's good. Like if mission got canceled, could focus on another one. Didn't get the high speed gear you wanted. Good. Keep it simple. Didn't get the job you wanted. Good. You have the opportunity to get more experience to a project, build a better resume. So it's kind of like that same thing. It's a cool bad thing happened then. I could either like Warlow, feel bad about it or flip it around and then yeah, it's interesting to me. I mean, our listeners are tired of me bringing up stoic philosophy at this point, but it sounds like it sounds like that's a little bit of that going on in in your book is do kind of have like a philosophy for life or.

[00:25:23] That's interesting. You mentioned and I love the sound of that podcast, and when I look it up, so obviously people like Ryan Holiday and his, you know, the daily stuff, I only discovered him a couple of months ago, but that really resonated. And there's so much we can learn from that kind of philosophy that I don't think there's anything new that we can actually learn now. It's just reinventing it or transforming it or translating into how it's relevant for us and why. And holidays. The obstacle is the way I read it a couple of months ago and I thought, oh, wow, this is exactly what I was trying to get across in the book. But, you know, it was my book is very uninformed in that way because it was literally me just writing at the moment in time when I was in tears at three a.m. in the morning, you know, trying to try to find my way. So I think I think things like that are definitely influencing me more now. But that's taken years. And that's what I say to people. You don't just change how you think overnight. You can't just read my book or anybody else's book. And then that's done. I have to keep working on it like exercise. It's a physical exercise. A mental exercise is very close. You have to keep working on it, catch yourself when you're not working on it. So definitely influences my philosophy now for sure.

[00:26:49] He becomes kind of like a habit of mine, becomes a way of life, a kind of a habit in your thought process. I mean, speaking of habits, I think people tend to become really comfortable where they are. Right. So why is it good to get out of the comfort zone and into this space that you talk about in a book called The Stretch Zone and the Stress Zone?

[00:27:15] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:27:16] We don't realize how much routine we're in, how much floury, unconscious Floren and habits that we just do, that we just assume there's no other way to do it. I was hugely influenced by B.J. Folks Work and obviously his book just came out, but I was already following him and some of his work in the tiny Hobbit space. I went on one of his workshops. It really disrupted my thinking. And I think that's why losing your job could be an opportunity, because it's a forced disruption. And so you're forced to think, hang on a minute, what was I actually doing there? Whereas people who were in a job, but they might always think, oh, I'd really like to change, I'm not that happy. There's nothing that motivates them or is the reason for them to actually get up and do something unless something happens around them. And like PJ Fox says, it's not motivation anyway. It's you acknowledging I want something that I'm going to take action around it. So, yes, I do think the disruption, that general disruption to your thinking and therefore it puts you in that stretch zone that I sort of describe is healthy because it's making us think in a different way. And that's when we get even more awe inspiring ideas coming out of it. And there's so many examples of that all around us where we see people hit the absolute low, they hit rock bottom, but then they seem to bounce up even stronger.

[00:28:47] And it's the disruption of that just everyday thinking, a habit that we've got into. We just assume that's it and it's all fine. Everything's nice. But this disruption makes us go, hang on a minute. It's not what I want. I could do something completely different. And I think that's where you should draw inspiration from all around us. We can perhaps see celebrities that have done it. We see people in our own communities who've done it. All sorts of examples of people who would say, I hit rock bottom, I went bankrupt, I lost everything I did, but this is me now. I've come back stronger. So if we take the energy from that, I think that's where Stretched Zone really helped. You've got to feel comfortable to get that way. If you're just comfortable, you're not going to take brave decisions. So giving a little bit uncomfortable is fine. I mean, as I say in a book, don't put yourself in stress on AIs when it's not fine, you're pushing it, you're overwhelmed, you're not getting the right support. But stay in that stretch zone when you're growing as a person is very powerful.

[00:29:47] That's very, very powerful indeed. It's happened to me like a few years ago. Two years ago, I was in a job that I really did not like. I feel like I was just not living up to my potential in that job and it was just in the comfort zone for too long. And by putting myself in that stretch zone, by doing things are difficult every day, doing things are a little bit harder. It just it rejuvenated, gives you more drive, more energy, more desire to to learn and and pick up new tools. But I mean, there are times when you might have so many different creative ideas, like, for example, for me, like, you know, there's the podcast, there's the writing, there's the work. And I begin to really just start overthinking my decisions. And luckily, there are times when I have so much to think about that I want to do, that I just end up not doing anything for like an hour or so or even longer than an hour or sometimes. But how do we move past that analysis? Paralysis.

[00:30:50] I love that because I'm with you. I have like a thousand Post-it notes just around me and I'm like, oh, my God, what should I do? I'll go make a cup of coffee.

[00:31:01] Well, I think the first thing is just to say, like, then stop being hard on yourself because everyone does it. And especially when we're in that mode of finding a solution, we start over generating. Also, the energy starts saying, what about this? What about that? So that's where I guess the third step is what I talk about in the book about that slowing down and just checking in. So you've generated all of this stuff, all this energy, all these ideas, and you think, OK, now what? And the bit that I realized was all the headlines start telling you, just do it. Just start before you ready. All of this great stuff. OK, fine. I get it. I did that. What? I forgot the slow down and check in back. And that's why I did it into my book because it was so overwhelming. I was just like panicked. And I went, OK, I'll just do something. I signed up to the wrong things, like probably three wrong things I did, signed up to a program which had no interest in doing it. It was just the wrong decision. I just I panicked and thought, do something, do that. So slow down, slow, slow. Go, as I call it, is slowing down to check in with your wife.

[00:32:09] And we all talk a lot about why. And Simon Senecal is the owner of the Big Question Why, which can sometimes feel overwhelming in itself. But I try and simplify. My whole world is about simplifying everything. Why is just like right now, what do I need and why? So it might be that that answer is right now I need money to pay bills. That's cool. So in the book I kind of talk about try and explore a priority list for yourself and just say, look, I need to do X right now. So some people I work with, they might be OK. Right now. I need to look after my health. I know I want to do something else, but I'm just playing in this space a little bit. But I really. My health is not great. So we articulate maybe five priorities and we put something at the top. This is always something at the top. If it's money, fine. How much do you need? Second thing, if it's health, what does that look like? What get better or get help or work on a certain mental health or whatever it is, be really specific. We get creative with an idea, start a side business or something like that. So if you create your priority list, it starts to help you understand the decision you're making.

[00:33:18] So in slow, slow go, the first part of slowing down is knowing why it could be that you want to change the whole world and you've got a huge, compelling mission and purpose. Great. But it also could be just got your reasons and your why right now. And you need to hold on to that. So that's the first. But the second is just decide, OK, what do I need right now? Wants and needs a very different what do I need to do? And then the last part of that, the go is what's the first thing that I can do? What's the one thing that I can do today that is just one thing. Don't get overwhelmed with thousands of things. It's what do I need? How can I do one thing today that takes me a step closer and be really confident that just one thing a day actually is better than a million things and a million ideas and a little tip I always tell people when they work with me is people like electronic kind of stuff like Trello boards and also stuff like that. Or you could do manual, you could literally have a little Post-it note box or card box that every time you have an idea or something pops up, scribble it on, put it in the box.

[00:34:29] And what I say to people is you can put as many stuff in that box as you like, but every day, once you've done your action for the day, you're allowed to pick one of those out and work on it. That's your treat. So it's I do the the one thing that you think is going to take you a step further, what you need. And then once you've done that, choose that random idea and work around it and think, well, OK, what's this idea about? Why is it important to me? How is it going to get me closer to where I want to be? How is it going to make me feel if I don't do it, explore all of that and then you can either put it back in the box or another time round, or you might have done it or you might have set off. I've started a project. So that's like a little kind of tip that I sort of use of people to help reduce it. So you never lose all your ideas. They're all in the box, but you're only working on one or two things at a time.

[00:35:21] That's excellent. Excellent advice. I really, really appreciate that. Just like after everything, if it comes down, just make sure you write down, capture it and then kind of go through it, because sometimes we have so many decisions that we have to face and we just end up getting scared to decide on what to do next. But it turns out that decide a phobia is a actual thing, right?

[00:35:40] Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing to find that out. I really want to put it in the book.

[00:35:45] That's why I didn't realize that people are scared to make a decision and especially with jobs. So imagine if you got three jobs and that awful feeling when there's maybe one that's come up, but you're really waiting for another one to make a decision. You're just in that stress zone. The best way to handle that is almost handing yourself over to look, I've done the work. I know what my ideal job is. I know what the perfect solution is. So the right decision will come to me. Just sit in that space because you've done all the work. So let the let the right solution come to you.

[00:36:17] Yeah. Have you read how to decide by any do you familiar with any work at all. No, but I feel like I've got a lot of reading and listening to do after this book is great. How to decide. I think you're really into that pick. Yeah. That sounds brilliant. Excellent framework for just how to make decisions. Or you just listen to the interview I did with her on the. Yeah.

[00:36:39] So let's talk more about getting stuck. So it's not like we just magically wake up one day. Stuck the day before we wake up, I'm right. We need to create a plan to get unstuck. What should that plan look like?

[00:36:57] Yeah, and this is the bit where it's like, oh, no, really, we've got to do work on what really works.

[00:37:05] You know, how many people don't actually have a very clear plan? And by that I don't mean a spreadsheet or twenty six page beautiful PowerPoint or anything like that. I just mean a very clear articulation that we probably have written down because something very powerful about writing down with a handwritten or actually typed up, it says this is your plan and saying write what I'm going for what what is my objective? And using some of the tips, like we talked about the priority list, what am I trying to get out of this? I'm trying to do X, Y, Z, OK? And the part of the plan that we really try and work on when I'm talking to people about this is expectation. So if all of this came true and everything happened for you, what are you expecting from it? How are you feeling? What what's the big expectation? And that's what you need to plan into it. So how do you want to work? What kind of work do you want to be doing? How do you want this to to be?

[00:38:04] Because I think a lot of people and I get to talk about in the book when when you've lost your job, you just throw yourself into the next job. What happens is if you've not done that, planning work have been really clear on what I'm expecting from it. You find yourself in a rebound job is a bit like a breakup record with the one you rebound into the next relationship because you just want that pain to go. And then you wake up and go, oh, my goodness, what am I doing? I'm repeating so doing a little bit of planning work just in advance that just orders all of your thinking will really help you to then target your energy. So you're being really clear with yourself just the same as you would in work. What am I want and how am I going to do this? I'm having ideas around that. So that's the plumbing bit. And then what we talk about with people from that point is, OK, have a look now at the people around you. How are they going to help you or who do you need to help you to to realize the plan? So a lot of the time, we don't realize that the people around us are either holding us in place or worse, and that the that they're just being a negative influence. So tune in to who you got around you. And quite often when you've lost your job or you're trying to do something new, you actually need a whole new set of people around you.

[00:39:20] And I don't mean kind of like get new friends. Not at all. Your friends are friends, therefore different function. So if you're trying to do something different or get a job, you might just need people in the same space for that moment in time to get you there, though, how are you going to do that? And I think that's where communities like job search communities and startup communities really help each other because you're all in the same place and you can share where you're all at. So that's kind of like the second part of it, last part of the unstuck. And a plan is getting your story straight. So, again, like all good business, you need your story absolutely clear, because once you start telling people that's part of your marketing, it's part of helping you to move forward. So the next time someone says, oh, no, I heard you lost your job, I'm so sorry, how's things going? Instead of filling that gap with us all full, I'm just fed up on this. I'm not able to fill that gap with well, it's not great, but it's an opportunity. I'm looking for a project manager role. I'm hoping for it to be in an organization with these kind of values. If you know anything, let me know. You've started that person helping you to find your next job or your next client if you've started a business. So that's the sort of planning, but it's being really conscious of where you're putting your energy to get you what you want.

[00:40:43] I really, really like that. I'm not like that. Don't adhere to this like super positive psychology. It's like put it out to the universe and it'll happen again. But there's a bit of truth to that in the sense that if you just tell people what it is that you're looking for, what it is you're trying to do, more often than not, they're going to try to help you. Right. Or they'll be like, oh, actually, I know somebody that might connect you. Right. One thing that I like I like the section on crafting your story or how to create a story for yourself. And I'm wondering how we could use that in a very particular setting, because inevitably, after we've wallowed, after we've gotten unstuck, we're applying for jobs, we'll get job interviews. And that question comes up. And I feel like some people just how do I know was the right answer. And that's the tell me about yourself question. Right. I'm wondering, can we use this idea of a story or crafting your story to answer that that question?

[00:41:41] That is such a good point, because we've done all of this work and we've got ourselves in a position in front of these people. We just got a. Now, sell it and then you're right, if we just haven't prepped, but hopefully you've done enough prep that. Yes, that comes really naturally and look forward to that question. So again, slip your mind here. People dread the question, slip your mind, look forward to it, because this is your moment. You can sell yourself in that one space of time. So when people say, tell me about yourself, be really clear on what's this role, why did I apply for it in the first place and load up all the first kind of five, 10 minutes of what you say next completely into that space, what people tend to do. And again, it depends how much time you've got. Usually the interviewer will tell you, but they tend to start right at the beginning of their career and they'll say, oh, well, 10 years ago I started here. Remember, they know all that. They've seen your CV, they've seen your LinkedIn.

[00:42:41] So stop. Actually, if they give you free space to talk, some people might say talk you through your fine, talk it through. But again, low debt. So you're talking into their space. Every word that you're using now, talking you into that job or out of the job to think about why have you applied for this and just speaking to that space and enjoy it. Enjoy telling somebody about it. But yeah. Why do you want this job? Well. Oh, tell me about yourself. It's well, I really want this job because I'm this person I've been working on this for a long time in this job. I did X, Y, Z, and that will help me in the job that you've got. And it's so it's loading it all the time into that space of the interview. You're practically doing the work for the interviewer and they're like, wow, but this person is matching exactly what I want to hear. So yeah, I look forward to the question is the first tick.

[00:43:37] Yeah, that's right. Look forward to. And then I think that this would be a good, good idea to really think about your why as well and kind of have your story crafted, crafted around. Yeah. So you've also got this awesome matrix of sorts that I'd love to get into the The Matrix. It's like three banjar, the dream job, the needs must job and the foot in the door job. Talk to us about these different types of jobs.

[00:44:07] So that came about from again a Skripal. Might be a bit of a theme here that oh, all the ideas come from scribbles. But I realized when I was talking to people that it's not as straightforward as, you know, just get a job. There's all different reasons. It's very much linked to the way that we talked about. But people would be in themselves up with it and actually thinking about it. When I've been recruiting for people in the past, there's different reasons why people are in front of me asking for the job or wanting the job. So it made me realize that actually there's different motivations and you shouldn't beat yourself up about why would that be really clear on it? So the first one is just the needs must. And that goes back to our priority list. It goes back to you might just need the money. Well, you might just need this job to get you through space in time. You might have a family that you're caring for. You might be wanting to spend more time with your children. You might there might be other factors determining your reason and you just take that job because of it. What happens is people then beat themselves up about it. They'll say, oh, I've thrown away my career because I had to take this job or, you know, they'll they'll beat themselves up.

[00:45:24] My matrix is trying to say, stop beating yourself up about what you need to do. You've done the right decision for you. Life isn't about progression and ladder constantly progressing. Life is about doing what you have to do and owning your space. And that's what's very impressive to people. So if you just need a job at that certain point in time for other reasons, that's impressive. Congratulate yourself. Don't waste energy on beating yourself up. The next sort of part of that is the foot in the door job. So you might have an organization that you really want to work for. You've done the research, you know, that's your dream job eventually to be X or what you get and get a foot in the door. It might not be the perfect job, but it's the perfect organization. Excuse me. So you go for that job, but again, it will help you in that interview to come across as to why I discovered this when I was trying to apply for jobs in various organizations, I couldn't quite get my story across as to why I wanted that job, because people would say, but you've been a senior manager and now you want.

[00:46:33] This doesn't quite add a mystery. Why plays into it? Say, Look, I've always wanted to work for you. Your values, what your mission, what you're doing. I feel like I can contribute for many years. I'm willing to grow. This job's perfect for me right now. I want to do. Two or three years, but yes, I want to grow your business as well. If you can articulate that, that'll help someone to understand why you want to foot in the door job. You know, you're not pretending. I think people sometimes pretend, especially if it's a senior job they've been doing and they're perhaps going a bit like a lower level. You know, they're pretending, but just be very transparent with where you're at and what you're willing to do. So that's that sort of a job. And then the other job is the dream job is where it all comes. True. Great, great organization, perfect job. Having money like everything. Perfect. The other side of it is the rebound job that we talk about. So it's probably very similar to what you've done before. It hasn't taken you much thinking to do it. So for me, it was like, oh, there's a job. Oh, there's another communications job done.

[00:47:40] But yes, a couple of months later, you might find yourself sitting there thinking, actually, this is exactly the same as what I'm doing. I'm not progressing here. I'm quite frustrated with why have I done this? All of it's fine. The whole point in The Matrix is to so that you feel happy with that and understand why you took that decision to be there. Don't waste money that we spend is money, I guess. But don't waste your energy on just beating yourself up and saying, oh, why am I here? What? You know, it's just wasteful. Just checking to say, no, I've made the right decision. Now, what do I do with that? And keep moving on and growing yourself. But we all see it. We see it in organizations, lots of people. They take the job and then they spend the next year moaning to all their colleagues saying, you know, I shouldn't be here. I used to be senior manager and I took it took a pay decrease to be here, remember? But yes, you did you own that decision. You must have done it for a reason. Stop wasting energy on it. So that's what that's all about.

[00:48:39] I really, really appreciate you digging into that. And I was talking to a friend about this last week at some point. And, you know, if you do have to take a step back in your career, at least make it such that it's a step back like kind of like a slingshot, you know, that if you're going backwards, it's only because you're going to propel further faster. So I think thank you for for showing that. Yeah. I was wondering if we can pick your brain on how to make it good LinkedIn profile, how to make our profile stand out. What would you say are some key elements of a good LinkedIn profile?

[00:49:18] Yes, a LinkedIn has certainly become key to all of this. And I'm seeing so many great opportunities and people getting their next moves from LinkedIn. So it's a magical place right now. But yes. How did what do you do on it? You're never going to say I'm a LinkedIn expert, but it definitely works for me. The first thing I'd say is don't be afraid of it. For some reason, people are terrified of it, especially if you've not been on it before. You kind of feel like it's all very businesslike and professional, not what if I get something wrong on it horrifies people. Don't worry about that. It's the same as any other social platform. You can change it, you can edit it, you can keep evolving it as you grow. So take steps. And the thing I'd say about it is be you the whole time. Don't pretend to be anything else you. And if you've done all the work that we've been talking about, you know, your story, what you're looking for, or at least you know roughly what an ideal tomorrow would look like, you might not have all the answers to your perfect dream job. You know what that looks like forever.

[00:50:25] You have a sense of it. That's where LinkedIn will help you get that first move by articulating it. So don't be afraid of it. Yeah, on there. Stop playing with it. I'm one of the things that you I mean, there's lots of people out there that will give you that technical tips around it and LinkedIn itself some great tutorials. But there's just a few things around key words. For example, you want to be found on LinkedIn, make sure that your headline got the things you want to be found of. So that sounds completely obvious, but I definitely got that wrong at some point. For example, I did a lot of acquisitions and mergers in my experience, and I put that in my profile because that's what I did. And then I got approached for lots of acquisitions such as work. And I was thinking, no, I don't want to do this. So it's not about what you've done. It's about talking yourself into your future job. So that's the way I get people to rethink it. Take everything you've done. But then now tailor it to talk yourself into the future space. So if you don't want to be doing something in the future that you've done in the past, be brave and don't put it on there or reframe it in a way that doesn't mean that you're going to get approached.

[00:51:40] So it's about telling your story and enjoy it. So write it and enjoy writing your LinkedIn profile if you've. About all your achievements in the past, if you've thought about what you've accomplished, but that on that it's not boasting, it's just showing who you are and it's telling the story of who you are. And so, yeah, just just own it and make sure that it's all about you. It's all, as you said before on your CV. You know, I'd be accurate with what you're saying. I don't make things up because people will find that out, obvious stuff like that. But people do all the time. Make sure there's a nice profile picture on there. But the thing to do with LinkedIn is not overthink it and not worry about it because people are nice. Actually, on LinkedIn people have got your back. You know, there's a minority, very small number of people who wouldn't try and support you to get your next move or to find a client if once you start posting.

[00:52:35] So that's what I would say about developing your profile and then just going through and inviting connections. You could put a little note on there if you wanted to. But again, don't get hung up about all of that. I certainly don't. It's good not to overthink it. If you want to put notes on that. Great. But me personally, I don't care if people put a note on there or not when they're connecting to me, but it's the message follow not only comes into your why what you're looking for. So I don't mind if people say, oh, I'm applying for a job and blah, blah, blah. You've worked there. If you've got any tips, fine, but you know it. So try and own the space. Try and help people to help you. Yeah. Enjoy LinkedIn don't fear it is the biggest advice.

[00:53:19] Thank you very much. I appreciate you sharing that. People generally are nice on LinkedIn. I mean we've connected on LinkedIn. That's how I got you onto the show so. Yeah. But like all social media, there's, there's always kind of the I think it's different, but I guess all social media platforms have their own set of dilemmas. What's the LinkedIn dilemma?

[00:53:42] Yeah, it kind of depends, I think, on how you how you're using it. I think, yes, you can definitely have people selling you straight away. So, you know, there's a bit of a sales, to be honest. I don't actually get a lot of that, which is great. So I don't get a lot of people selling all kinds of crap to me. So I haven't got past experience of that. But I do know that people complain a lot about people just directly selling and then just not getting it quite right. So, you know, you've put a profile together, clear what you do, and then they sell you something that you clearly would have no interest. It's just a waste of energy. If you're on that receiving receiving end, it makes you feel a bit negative about it. If you're on the end of person generating that stuff, have a think about it. Think think more clearly about what am I sending this message to this person for? Do I really know then what I want them to do as a result? And I don't waste your energy on approaches. It doesn't work with LinkedIn be really tailored and personal and you'll get a lot more from it. So, yeah, I think there is sort of LinkedIn has small problems, I guess like oil platforms, as you say. I mean, we're all people. If we're all in a room together, will there be problems there as well? We just people. But, you know, I just keep telling yourself and trying to do their best. I'm sure they are. You know, even the people sending you weird sales messages, they're just trying to do the best, you know. So on your energy around it, don't get too hung up about it. Keep your stay in your lane. Do what you've got to do and you'll be fine. I just think people get a bit hung up about other people's stuff and it's just a waste of energy.

[00:55:25] Yeah, like if somebody in your network land a job that maybe was the one you were gunning for or the one that you feel like you could have done a better job at this, like I don't take it personally or whatever just to move on. Go along.

[00:55:38] Oh yeah. That's such a good point. LinkedIn is full of that though, isn't it? I mean, yes, that's a good point. You could get triggered quite a bit, feel down and go into comparison syndrome about I'm not good enough. Why not me? I mean, you see all the time I remember seeing people, you know, that awful moment that they change their job into the job that you applied for. And you think I'm better than them. I'm like, how did I not win? Oh, my God. You know, you have this meltdown. Well, it's not about being better or worse or anything about that. It's about face thing. It's about just good fact. So, yeah, try it on. It's just all that thing about owning your day, don't worry about comparison. If you didn't get the job, it's a redirection into something better that will fit what you you need if you're seeing people posting all the time, which I guess is a bit of both go to. And at the moment I get a bit paranoid about like I put stuff about my book and I think, God, if people think, oh my goodness, shut up with your book, you know, sometimes you feel that. But, you know, it doesn't matter if people ever take it or leave it. If you could be as personal and. Just as human as possible when your post, and I think people appreciate it. So just finally, you've got to do and if it triggers you too much, come off. It just it's not work if it's not the right place. There's other ways you can get a job. It's not the only place. If it's that bad for you, just definitely don't be on it.

[00:57:06] Thank you very much for for sharing that. One thing that I personally am very interested in is this idea of mindset have a growth mindset, a creative mindset, a serendipity mindset. Talk to us about the mindset that we need to thrive.

[00:57:24] I think mindset is is huge and it's probably not even a word I knew until I started exploring this world corporate life. You just get up, do your best you can here in your own little bubble. You're in a corporate bubble. You're more concerned about what Bob over the desk is doing. You know, what's the L.A. team trying to get me to go on a training course? It's all that stuff. And then in this other world, which I think is actually opening up and coming together now entrepreneur mode, suddenly people talking about your mindset. And I think obviously how to talk in her book is a huge shift in people's understanding of that. But again, it's a real moment of where your life can shift when you check in with it, because fixed mindset, you start reading that list of questions that she says, which is I can't it's not me, maybe tomorrow. That's for other people. You know, she gives you a whole list of things that could be internally, how you feel about something. You suddenly go, oh, my goodness, that's me. All this time I've been doing that fixed mindset, we're actually to thrive and to allow yourself to grow. You have to flip it into this growth mindset which says, OK, I don't know how, but I'll find out.

[00:58:42] I've got it wrong. But that's OK. I'll learn from it. That was embarrassing. But again, it doesn't matter. I laugh it off, I'll move on. And it's directly linked to that sort of flippant mindset to a degree. But driving is definitely about possibility, opening yourself up to being uncomfortable. All the things you're trying to protect yourself from, really, it's saying, you know what, I'm going to put all that to one side and I'm going to do it despite it. Sometimes that feeling never goes away like I'm doing stuff. I still think, oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness, this is awful to go wrong. I'm going to scream, goodness, I'll do it anyway because I've put myself in a drive mindset that says Do it anyway. You might learn from it. Who knows what might happen? What's the worst that can happen, as you know. And it's all that thing about rejection just means you've tried because if nobody clicks on something or nobody reads something you do, it doesn't matter. Just keep going, keep in your lane, keep progressing and do it despite it.

[00:59:41] So I think that when you get into that mindset, it's a real moment for you because you can handle things that are happening in a whole different way. Rejection, fear, failure is OK. All right. Not not not a problem. Let's go again and again in my studies when I studied for the book research and just me personally in setting up my business, that theme came up so much about successful people that they just had a very different understanding about failure. Like I worked for Virgin, for Richard Branson for a while. And looking back, that's kind of his philosophy is, well, why not try? It doesn't work so well. Learn from it. Reset, right. So that's a huge moment for people, I think.

[01:00:25] Yeah. I wish I had come across this idea of a growth mindset far, far earlier in my life. I was in my mid thirties when I was thirty five, when I first read Mindset and first came across this idea and I was like, wow, this is why. Why wasn't I taught this stuff at a younger age then you know that a six month old son now going to make sure that he understands this concept of growth mindset growing up.

[01:00:50] Yeah, it's huge, isn't it? Is huge. And yet why aren't we told this? You're right. It's like the key to just making life a bit better. Really?

[01:00:59] Yeah. One hundred percent. So last formal question before we jump into our random round. It is one hundred years in the future. It is the year twenty one twenty. What do you want to be remembered for.

[01:01:13] Try not to freak out. That's just the biggest question ever, isn't it? It's such a good question. I think for me, I guess I'm not big on these huge, big mission things. So I think it can feel so overwhelming, like if you want to change the world and things, I'm not that person that's so driven that I want to change the world. But if anybody had to remember me for anything, I'm going to make it really simple because I just want kindness and I want encouragement. It's really simple. Every time I meet someone doesn't matter what background they're from, what's going on. I just think how. Can I just be kind today, how can I encourage them? And then probably the last thing is judgment. I really work on no judgment because I think that that's the key to us all living in a very different world. We're constantly judging everybody and everything from our own perspectives, and we never see it from a different point of view. So for me, I have to wear a little T-shirt that says a little less judgment. That's huge. Less judgment in the world equals more kindness and encouragement.

[01:02:17] I love it. I absolutely love it. Less judgment, more empathy. And that will make for a better world. So let's jump in a real quick random round here. If you were to write a fiction novel, what would it be about and what would you title it?

[01:02:33] Or do you know how many times I've played? You know, what is probably a card in my box, in my random box of ideas. I traveled the world for 18 months backpacking about 10 years ago, and I wrote all these notes so I would write it up. But in a way that was sort of not, you know, maybe a mix of nonfiction and fiction. So, yeah, traveling the world backpacking, but seeing it from a funny point of view and from a cultural point of view, what would I try to let my baggage?

[01:03:08] I like that. So of all the countries that you've been to, which one will you never return to?

[01:03:15] Oh, good question. I think well, I've done a fair bit of traveling. I'm going to be really honest. I absolutely love traveling and I love oh, no country has ever made me feel like I never want to go back to it, because, like I said, no judgment. Everyone has something to give and something you can learn from where there wasn't any country that I felt threatened by or anything like that. But yeah, I'm open, so I'm very open about it.

[01:03:43] So when do you think the first video to hit one million views on YouTube will happen? And what will that video be about this movie?

[01:03:53] Laughter I mean, what can we look? We can look from the past currently and we go like baby shark and we can go from Picart and all that kind of stuff. I'd love it to be something around maybe deficit that makes the world laugh. I think we need something uplifting. So maybe somebody can just do something around climate change but make us laugh about it. And then that gets the message across. You know, something like that would be amazing that it could go viral. But I think humor is the way that we can get message across, not lecturing and not being heavy handed, obviously, or what all has its place. But I think laughter is what unites us. So something around that.

[01:04:37] And in what year do you think that video will hit? One trillion views?

[01:04:44] Let I mean, at the moment we're all online, so this could be closer than we think. Like before I'm going to twenty twenty five.

[01:04:53] What. So yeah. What song they have on repeat.

[01:04:57] So there's a couple of songs. Well I need to context this, so look down and I have a young daughter absolutely loves the great showmen so we have a million songs on repeat. So she loves the great showman that stuck in my head and that's our sort of twenty twenty theme tune. Whether I like it or not. That's what it is. But I also have a song called Don't Give Up by Snow Patrol, which it sounds cheesy, but it's an amazing song, but it's stuck in my head a moment in time. Actually, when I was writing the book, Don't Give Up was they released it and it just stuck. And I play it now every time I'm in that sort of mode of like giving up or not feeling great about something, I put it on and it's just like a message that kind of comes to me and says, keep going. And I know that's so cheesy, but it's such a it's an amazing song. Snoke to oversee a brilliant band, but it came at the right moment on the radio for me. And so that's very special. I've got another one actually that I could share, which is kind of funny every time I'm having a moment of change in my life or I think I just need a reassurance. I'm heading in the right direction. And this is kind of a weird one. But Africa by Toto, it comes on the radio, it comes on an event. It just comes on. And I'm like, oh my God, it's that song again. I believe it.

[01:06:23] That's a good one. And also, like Snow Patrol, that's a that's a band. I haven't heard an amazing song. It's. Yeah, yeah. Well, they had a hit in the early 2000s. I forgot what the name of that was. That's the same guy that does Death Cab for Cutie, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes. All right. We're going to go to a random question generator now, and it is right here. All right, what's something you learned in the last week?

[01:06:53] Oh. OK, last the last week I learned in the last week what I could do, like a technical thing that I learned more is that in tech, I'm a terrible person. But I did learn how to actually do a podcast on Zen Casta. So I did that more philosophically. I guess I learned that actually there's there's lots of different sides to the story. We have to always remember that our side of what we think we know there could be many different versions on the other side. So, yeah, I learned that last week.

[01:07:30] When was the last time you changed your opinion about something major?

[01:07:35] Well, this is good, isn't it? OK, it is a good one, actually, in quite recent coaching. So I'm doing a deeper coaching course at the moment to really learn the art of coaching. I'm a business coach already, but I want deeper learning in it. And half of me believed coaching was just asking people questions. And I guess if I'm going to be honest, half of me was a bit cynical about that and thought, well, to add value, I have to actually give ideas and mentor and actually provide advice as well. So I combine that that if this is a major turning point for me, because actually it's not that coaching is about holding space for people and allowing them to have their own ideas and answers. And it's your job to actually coach that out of them. So actually, my opinion of coaching is radically changed in the last few weeks, and I'm hoping to really apply that next year to my coaching and provide a better service for people.

[01:08:39] Really, that's really, really powerful. I'd love to dig into some of that some of that stuff you're doing, because, you know, as a Data science mentor myself, I often have to coach people and struggle with how to coach them well. So I thank you very much for sharing that. Let's do pet peeves.

[01:08:57] You have pet peeves.

[01:09:00] Well, I am a bit of take a step back and not waste energy on pet peeves. I try, but I guess I guess one of my pet peeves is people wasting energy on things aren't helping them and generally annoys me when I just see people, I don't know, getting annoyed by stuff. And you just think, what, what? How is that helping you? It's not helping you stop moaning about the recruiter that hasn't got back to you. It's just that's not helping. What can help you today move on. So that's a very specific pet peeve. But I think it's this week. I've seen a lot of it. It's just excuses, really, for not not doing the work yourself. So, yeah, I agree with you.

[01:09:41] I agree with you on that. One hundred percent through the last one here. What's your favorite book?

[01:09:45] Oh, I've so many. I'm a massive reader. I read hundreds of books and real books rather than online. Probably my favorite one ever is James Victory, which is fact or fiction. I read it a lot. It's just a beautifully designed book. It has all the right messages at the right moment in time that you want them. It's a self-help book then it's not. It's really easy to read. It makes you laugh, makes you smile. So yeah, I do love that book. I keep it very close to me at all times.

[01:10:19] I'll have to definitely check that out. How can people connect with you? Where can they find you online.

[01:10:24] Yes, thank you. So I'm at another door. Dakoda UK another door born from the cliche when one door closes another door opens, which irritated me a lot when I got made redundant. But then I decided to lean into it and create it as my blog. And now it's my business. So now another door UK on all social platforms. I'm not I'm not a huge social media person. I don't post a lot, but when I do, I hope it adds value to people. So yeah, I'm sure all the platforms as and when I think of something useful to say.

[01:10:58] Eleanor, thank you so much for taking time out your schedule to come on to the show today. I really appreciate you digging into your book for us and sending a positive message out there for four audience. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. It's been really fun. So thank you very much.