irena-cronin-2020-06-24.mp3

Irena Cronin: [00:00:00] The most important thing you could ever do is to be extremely persistent, no matter what. And I think that's a lesson that people eventually learn if they really are still interested in going the same path that they they started in, but not to give and to to see any kind of setback, that or imagined setback that the person feels say they've gone through, that it really shouldn't end what their aspirations are that they should still keep going .

Harpreet Sahota: [00:00:45] What's up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Artists Of Data Science. Be sure to follow the show on Instagram, @TheartistsofDatascience and on Twitter @artistsofData. I'll be sharing awesome tips and wisdom on Data science as well as clips from the show. join the Free Open Mastermind selection by going to bitly.com/artistsofdatascience where I'll keep you updated on biweekly open office hours. I'll be hosting for the community. I'm your host Harpreet Sahota. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode. And don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review the show.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:01:33] Our guest today is shaping his vision of the future. Spatial computing that leverages virtual and augmented reality. Her multidisciplinary background includes a joint MBA, M.A. from the University of Southern California and M.S. in Management and Systems from New York University and a B.A. from University of Pennsylvania with a major in economics. And if those credentials weren't impressive enough, she has near fluent proficiency in Mandarin intermediate Japanese and beginning in Korean. She currently serves as CEO of Infinite Retina, an organization which provides research and business strategy to help companies succeed in spatial computing. Prior to that, she served as CEO of Transformation Group, which advised decision makers on business strategies related to artificial intelligence, augmented and virtual reality machine learning, facial recognitions, robotics, autonomous vehicles and related disruptive technologies. Her vast depth of experience also includes several years as an equity research analyst with extensive experience evaluating both public and private companies. So please help me welcoming our guest today, co-author of The Infinite Retina, Irena Cronin. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be here today. I really appreciate you coming on to the show.

Irena Cronin: [00:02:50] Yes, great. Thanks for having me. Harp.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:02:52] Talk to us a bit about your journey. How did you get to where you are today? What are some of the struggles he faced along the way? How did you overcome them?

Irena Cronin: [00:03:00] Wow, that's a huge question. So I started out as an econ major, as you noted at the beginning, and for a long time, I was a numbers person and I worked on Wall Street for eight years or so as an equity research analyst. And for a while, I was just doing strategy just for all kinds of different companies. So it wasn't just spatial computing, AR/VR or A.I., etc., but in 2015 or so when I was in the Bay Area, I had a friend of mine that asked me to do strategy for a company that was doing VR. So that was my introduction into the space. And ever since then, I've specifically just been doing VR, AR, AI and now the wider spatial computing. Yeah. In terms of difficulties along the way. You know, this is a nascent kind of industry. It's going to still take a while for it to develop, but that's what makes it really awesome.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:04:02] So talk to us about spatial computing. What is it? And how is it different from regular computing?

Irena Cronin: [00:04:09] All right. So spatial computing AIs all the technologies that a person virtual being a robot. would need to move through a three dimensional world. So currently everything is two dimensionalized. These technologies include artificial intelligence, computer vision, augmented reality, VR, sensor technology and automated vehicles and anything else that you would need to do that. So basically it's taking like we're on Zoom. Actually, we don't even have the one of the dimensions with just visuals. So this is a podcast. Let's say we're in Zoom was a virtual call that's still 2D. So there's a while to go before everything becomes three dimensional. AIs. But I think it will happen.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:04:53] So what's the state of spacial computing look like today and what are some ways that it's already integrated into our life, but maybe we just don't know it? We haven't recognized it.

Irena Cronin: [00:05:04] Ok, so I saw that spatial computing was special enough even now to write a book. So you mentioned The Infinite Retina, Infinite Retina it focuses on spatial computing and on a how, seven industry verticals will greatly be affected by it.Those verticals are transportation, technology, media and telecom, manufacturing, retail, health care, finance and education.So I'd have to say that already and several of those verticals, you do have elements of spatial computing.So logistics and retail and manufacturing have already used augmented reality since 2008. I'll be at it. It wasn't true 3D. It was flat kind of 2D layering on top of the real world up until recently. That changed and became 3D and now integrates it with audio commands and other types of really great features. So healthcare are using VR for pain control and for training and training is being used in all kinds of other verticals as well. Just starting in education and as you know, for technology, media and telecom, it was location based entertainment for VR, which is a little bit on hold right now due to COVID but that's still steaming ahead. And transportation, facial computing includes autonomous vehicles. So that's very much being worked on now. So a lot of people aren't aware of it, but there's a lot happening in spatial computing currently.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:06:47] So where do you see spatial computing technology headed in, say, the next two to five years?

Irena Cronin: [00:06:53] Okay, so it's been leaked Apple is going to come out with their headsets on 2020 - 2023. 2022 It's supposed to be like a hybrid VR headset and 2023 is dedicated A.R. I really do believe that when Apple comes out with at least one of the headsets to kick it off, that there will be obviously more people that even know about it. But not only that, they will actually buy the headsets and it'll become very commonplace. Currently there are some headsets available like the HoloLens tube from Microsoft and UnReal, which is also another AR headset and some headsets that are more for industrial and enterprise use, such as real wear. However, in two to five years, it should be going more mainstream, so regular everyday people will be able to access and use it. Additionally, I'm currently working with a company called Mojo Vision, which is working on an augmented contact lens. So this is another way you could integrate spatial computing into your world.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:08:06] And what do you think are some of the biggest concerns that society will face due to spatial computing technology in the next two to five years?

Irena Cronin: [00:08:15] I think the biggest thing has to do with the Data the amount of data and the types of data that we'll be able to be corralled due to spatial computing.Eye tracking. Voice recording. Recording of all the 3D. That could be initiated by the person who actually has the headset or contact lens or whatever on. Privacy is a really huge issue will only become bigger. So that needs to be worked on in terms of apps than can control that that are initiated by people that actually make those choices and not the businesses that don't give you the access to what they're actually capturing while you're using the devices. Another aspect that could possibly be an issue is what I call tech addiction. So obviously everybody knows about this already where everybody is on their cell phone all the time. Even when you're eating dinner, you're looking at your cell phone. This will only increase when you have a headset or a piece of hardware that is so valuable in that it gives you even more information at any moment through voice commands. So this is a fair. Is this something that will need to be tackled in the future. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:09:34] By any chance? Have you seen the show on Amazon Prime called the Feed?

Irena Cronin: [00:09:38] Yeah,

Harpreet Sahota: [00:09:38] When I was going through your book and I was looking through that can draw parallels to that world. And I thought it was vert interesting to see that, you know, you talking about bringing this thing into into real life in a sense, that spatial computing type of thing. I mean, it seems like something that's far off in the distant future but it's probably actually more closer on the horizon than we actually think.

Irena Cronin: [00:09:57] Yeah, yeah. I mean, sci fi has always been kind of like that. It it reaches towards the desires and sometimes the negative features of what will eventually happen. And I mean, it's they're ready for telling certain aspects of it. But the reality is, of course, a little less dramatized, hopefully. Yeah.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:10:23] What's up, artists? Be sure to join the free, open, Mastermind slack community by going to bitly.com/artistsofdatascience. It's a great environment for us to talk all things Data science, to learn together, to grow together. And I'll also keep you updated on the open biweekly office hours that i'll be hosting for our community. Check out the show on Instagram at the @theArtistsOfDataScience. Follow us on Twitter at @ArtistsOfData. Look forward to seeing you all there.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:10:51] Yeah. And your book is really interesting. I'd love to get a little bit more into it, if you would mind, starting with the first chapter i thought was really interesting. The prime directive. So and you open with this this question? You know what makes us human? So what makes us human? And what is the prime directive?

Irena Cronin: [00:11:10] Ok. So I want to switch to the wording a little bit around. So I don't want to say exactly what makes us human, but an element that is distinctly human and that we try to replicate on a daily basis. Is this I this this feeling and need to dramatize our experiences. So it's I almost have found it very interesting and strange. And when human beings read a lot of nonfiction, we love to see movies and plays that narrate some other persons or are fictional or non real, a story back to us. And for some reason or other, we get some kind of great feeling out of that. So the more I think about that, the weirder it gets. So I usually stop thinking about it. But the prime directive has to do with the fact that I think human beings our biology, our psychology and emotions all tied together. we like to be able to control our senses. Spatial computing, in a way, allows us to be able to do that and recreate things in a much more realistic way, which fits our need to narrate things back to our selves. And this works the best when we're able to do it in the most realistic way, which is a three dimensionalized and includes also audio that allows us to make us feel like this is real. So that's why all these technologies that replicate as true as possible reality are very important to spatial computing.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:13:04] So how how does spatial computing play into meeting that prime directive?

Irena Cronin: [00:13:10] Well, you know, if you have something that you're tricked into believing it was VR you're tricked into believing that you've entered a new space that a moment ago didn't exist. So you've entered a new world that is a positive reassurance of spatial computing as a working to guide us and to our desire to replicate a three dimensionalized experience that feels real to us. So that prime directive is human beings like to relive and rethink things as close to possible as reality. Memories are very much a kind of example of this. People who want to remember something over and over again, that memory isn't necessarily the most vivid, three dimensionalised version. But imagine you could actually see something that makes you remember something in a true to life way, that would be really awesome. And the technology that would allow you to do that. So there's a lot that goes on. There is computer vision, there's eye tracking, there's a true to life audio that moves as you move and all kinds of other intricate things that people don't even realize would go into something like that.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:14:35] I think its very interesting in your book I loved how you said the distinction between homo-sapiens and whatever came before us is just the way that we use tools. We use tools just to to survive more efficiently and kind of gain control of our surroundings. So in what way do you think spatial computing will change what it means to be human? Because as you mentioned, you know, when we put on these augmented reality headsets, VR headsets, how can we change what's in our environment? How will spatial computing change what it used to be human?

Irena Cronin: [00:15:10] This is a great question. In fact, there are a number of philosophers that have been talking about this for the last 20 years, actually. So the idea is that imagine what a cell phone is to a human being right now. It's viewed as an extension of our brain in our biology. So basically, it's taken the information that you would have in your mind or that you would've had in an encyclopedia, which was a physical thing, a book. And it's moved it to this small object that we use. What happens when we start knowing how to spell? And we just kind of write. And it gets auto spelled also. We don't know people's phone numbers. It just automatically comes up. People, you know, in the 90s had to know what everybody's phone number was yet to memorize it or write it down or have a phone book. So what happens is spatial computing is even more stronger, obviously, than a cell phone, although a lot of the guts of the power can come from a cell phone, spatial computing. By the way, what it does is it extends the human brain to be able to know more than you used to before. I mean, imagine if you were wearing augmented smart contact lens that could automatically give you the information you want by eye gaze. You could come off looking as the smartest person in the world. No one would know that you're actually receiving your information from a contact lens. So those are the few things. There's so many ways, obviously, I could go into autonomous vehicles as well. You know, people would not need to know how to drive anymore. You know, the technology becomes a huge it's always been a tool for us. But even more so with spatial computing.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:17:07] So, yeah, that's pretty interesting and in your book, you talk about the fourth paradigms. I was wondering if you could kind of expand on that for us. What do you mean by paradigm? And maybe can you walk us through the four that you talk about in your book?

Irena Cronin: [00:17:20] Sure. So if you look the Oxford Dictionary in terms of what the word paradigm is, it defined as a typical example or pattern of something, a model, the way paradigm is used here? It's a little more actually like a stage, something that is experienced through time. They call, you can even put the word shift next to we'll say like paradigm shift. And I'll explain it all better now so that makes more sense in terms of why it's called the paradigm. So in terms of the technical four paradigms, the first paradigm came with the arrival of the desktop computer. So obviously there were many more technical paradigms before that. But now we're talking about four human beings in terms everyday human beings using computers. Ok. So we start with that first paradigm. The second one came with graphical interfaces and thinking. So what do I mean by graphical interface as a side? Do we graphical user interface? It's the way things look to the consumer who's actually using the computer or a technical device rather than looking at something like zeros and ones for the computer or some kind of primitive example that's served up to you, that makes it it's harder for the consumer to use. So I'll give you an example of that. Prior to Excel. There were a number of different versions of programs that you could use that you'd be able to enter numbers into that would crunched the numbers and then you could actually print the spreadsheet or you had word processors like Lotus 1-2-3. So there was stuff that was more primitive than that as well, where you would actually have to put in a command to indicate how you would want the thing to be printed rather than just print it.So the graphical user interface was very important to allow more people who are not technical Unix people that know commands to use computers and that's allowed for more computers to be used. So that was a huge change. Third paradigm has to do with everything mobile. So this this came with cell phones and stable connectivity, Internet connectivity, as well as laptops to be able to move your computer and technology around. And then the fourth one now is spatial computing, where it combines all of these aspects, but adds a whole lot more to it with three dimensionality.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:20:08] Thank you for that. What's the intersection between spatial computing and artificial intelligence look, like? 

Irena Cronin: [00:20:16] I really think that the apex of what spatial computing could be definitely has to include A.I. and aspects of a like machine learning in order for something.Let's say you're moving through three day. The data that's collected has to be configured in a way and understood how you're moving through that space. What is it that you're that you're saying so it needs to recognize that accurately. It needs to serve up. Let's say you're using something like Siri or whichever other, you know, Google or whatever to or Alexa to give you information that also uses machine learning to be able to serve up the right information to you. So this is this interplay between 3D, verbal communication and then forecasting where you're going to be moving next or where you'd like to move next, along with serving up words that can help you find or do what you want. So this is extremely important and I don't think you can disengage one from the other.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:21:29] I think you painted pretty interesting picture, compelling picture when you talk about how spatial computing meets voiced first technology like Siri and Alexa, can you kind of give us a hypothetical scenario as to, you know, wondering what the intersection of spatial computing and voice first technology like Siri and Alexa look like when these two technologies collide? Like what positive advantages do you see that playing out for, like the prime directive, so to speak?

Irena Cronin: [00:21:59] Well, as I was saying, I don't think that even with VR. So this is before you have the AR headsets coming out, right? There are there are aspects of A.I. that are used that are invisible. So and that's even before voice first tech. Right. And that's in understanding your positioning in space. So you need to have that now layered on top of that then when you have augmented reality, which is better for using voice first like Siri and Alexa, because you're using it in a very pragmatic way, you're able to see the reality in front of you and then the three dimensional aspects overlayed on top of it. So let's say your walking down the street and you're looking for a particular store. You could actually talk to your device. It's to find out where it is or you're looking for a particular object to buy and you don't know which store it's located in, in the area that you're in that you're not familiar with yet. It serves as a very augmented version of your current cell phone, when you're in different locations. It could it could trail where you which location you're in and give you pointers as to where you should go. It could give you information, let's say your family members asking you something. You get it at the drop of dime combined with location understanding. It can forecast where it thinks you're going and give you some things that you might want to do or where you want to eat. Those are very down to earth, everyday pedestrian things that people actually want and need. And you could do very easily by having an AR headset combined with Siri and Alexa. Yeah. Or Google or whichever you are using.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:23:54] I think that's a really fascinating use case, especially for me in particular, because I'm notorious for my wife will attest to this. Whenever we trap, whenever we travel anywhere and I pull up Google Maps and we type in the address for what it is that we want to go, I usually take us maybe a block or two in the opposite direction before realizing that, oh, it's the other way. So be so cool to have, like, you know, we have this glasses and it's like literally like, OK, turn around right now. You're going the wrong way. Help point us in the right direction. I think maybe that's something I'm really looking forward to. Yeah.

Irena Cronin: [00:24:28] Yeah. I mean it's more. It'll definitely be more proactive. So it's not really you're asking something and getting the answer and actually offer up these kinds of things and we'll tell you, yeah. You're going in the wrong way or give you suggestions. And it currently does not work that way.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:24:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very interesting like the picture you pay for the future in the book. I'm super excited to see all the stuff roll out and become a reality. So you mentioned briefly in your book that they are using unsupervised algorithmic systems could potentially create a culture and a government for its own embodied bots. I found that to be extremely fascinating. I'm just describing how you imagined that looking like. 

Irena Cronin: [00:25:10] Yeah this I mean, most people would look at this and say, oh, my gosh, that's like really scary. And what do you what are you talking about? So, OK, so what I mean by unsupervised basically A.I. right now is the status of it is so no one has to worry about robots taking over the world. I mean, it is it does not work that way. Most of AIs supervise what I mean by supervise as the rules in which the algorithms and the A.I. works are very well defined by human beings. So even where the AI reaches out to find out more information algorithmically is mapped out by human beings, by unsupervised. The algorithm allows the machine or the software to go outside of the boundaries that you have artificially given it. And so it allows the AI to go out and out of that algorithm or the the the boundaries. It's hard to explain this. I hope that it's coming through. So basically. You can say that the A.I., quote unquote, is able to think on its own. Obviously a machine or software system does not think on its own, but it gives the appearance of doing that because it's not guided by the rules that you've set aside for that algorithm. So imagine if you do have start to get some really smart from the outside, smart looking A.I. creatures or machines that take on basically a life of their own in a beneficial way. Okay, I'm not talking about robots taking of the world. I'm talking about robots still helping people and humanity. And it should be bounded as well as unsupervised in some ways and bounded in others. Now, if you have smart A.I., they're going to be integrating with human beings and they're going to be integrating with other smart, AIs. The coordination of the machines and coordination with human beings needs to be regulated in some way. And there needs to be some societal understanding of what those regulations are or everything to be coordinated. So I do think this day will come. I don't see the evil empire robots coming. I see something where robots are helping human beings and it just needs to be prescribed in a way that it does continue to help us. And if there are any dangers that might come out of it, that also we stop that. But, you know, any kind of sci-fi future you might think of where robots are sitting around talking among themselves that's a possibility, actually. Yeah.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:14] Yeah. I was really fascinated by that little paragraph that you had the book and it really got me thinking. 

Irena Cronin: [00:28:19] A little farther out in the future than five years. Sure. But the way that we're going because of the prime directive, which we were talking before, and the need to replicate experiences and and tool making, all that kind of stuff I really do think it's going in that direction. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:36] S witching to something that's a little bit, I think, more closer to our current state of technology and something that people are really interested in is spatial computing and autonomous vehicles. So I'm wondering, how will spatial computing and autonomous vehicles help shape cities of the future?

Irena Cronin: [00:28:56] Yeah, this is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately because I've had some talks with some amazing people recently. So basically with an autonomous vehicle and we're also including flying cars with us or eVTOLs it's the city center where you have the downtown where people will go to shop and then you have the suburbs, and then you have the entertainment area that you go to, restaurants and places that you go to meet, people to congregate. A lot of this is going to change if it's not important to go to a particular place to do anything. If you could do a lot. First of all, by staying at home. So it's kind of like the Netflix effect, right, where people don't go to movie theaters anymore. You could stay home and you could you could get all your entertainment at home. You could get stuff delivered to you. So maybe autonomous vehicles will be used to continuously be able to deliver stuff to you, like food and all your clothing and all that kind of stuff. So that's one kind of vision of what the future looks like, where things are brought to you rather than you going out into space and getting stuff for yourself. The other vision has to do with decentralization of the whole city as a result. So you can have a job. You don't have to take public transportation anymore. You can take these autonomous vans to go to your work. If you're working, if you happen to still have an office that is located somewhere. That office doesn't even have to be in any place that is recognizable as a business center. It could be anywhere. If you're taking a flying car, the amount of time that it would take for you to get anywhere is cut into 10. So it's 10 times less the amount of time sometimes that you would need to drive with congestion. So there's a lot of freedom that human beings could get from using autonomous vehicles that allows them to be more free. And how they go about their business and how they go about their lives in the cities as a result will probably change it in terms of the landscape then very different from what exists now.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:02] Yeah, super interesting. And I've been waiting for flying cars ever since I was a boy. When I saw back to the future part two for the first time. I think we're five years behind. Right. This was supposed to happen in 2015. But you talk about in that same chapter, we're talking about autonomous vehicles, cities of the future. You talk about this concept of Data bubbles. Can you talk to us a bit about what Data bubbles are and what they have to do with the cities of the future.

Irena Cronin: [00:31:28] All right. So basically, if you can envision as kind of like an metaphor so as you're moving around in 3D space. So let's say you're happen to be walking down the street or you could be at your car as well and you could be in a Data a wall. Well, the whole car could be in a Data bubble. What's meant by bubbles is that there is locale information that is continually being updated as you move through space. As you asked your audio device, Siri, Google, Alexa, whatever information or advice that Data bubble gets updated along with your local helpful or local information. Basically, it all depends on where you are geographically, geographically in space and what you are doing and how you're doing it in space that constantly gets updates as you move through it. So anyone who is taking calculus. It's kind of like taking the switch from two dimensional geometry to three dimensional calculus, where as you move through space, things get updated. So that's what we mean by data bubble.

Irena Cronin: [00:32:31] Oh yea, what it..

Irena Cronin: [00:32:31] What it has to do with cities of the future? So basically, as more information comes so much more easily to the person who's using spatial computing device, there is less energy that needs to be put towards getting anything done. So we talked about autonomous vehicles bringing things to you.That's an aspect of Data bubble. In this case, the Data bubble are two locations, first location as a consumer. The second one is an autonomous vehicle that needs to have the Data understanding to be able to do the job that it's doing for you. So the decentralization of cities as a result comes from Data being more readily understood and personalized to the person.Yeah.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:24] And so what's the future look like when spatial computing meets these delivery methods? You've had a really interesting chapter in the book about that. Can you kind of discuss that in a high level and maybe talk about some of the concerns that local municipalities are having with the use of this technology?

Irena Cronin: [00:33:43] Yeah, it's huge question. So if you're talking about the Pokémon go, there's like a Pokémon go effect where people are running around outside looking for imaginary objects. Right. And it becomes a really big thing. So you have like a congregation of people who seemingly from the outside, you don't know what's happening, but those are who are playing the game. I actually can see everything very well. So they'll probably be these kinds of like huge congregations of people doing this. There'll be people who will anchor non real objects in space for others to come and find them, you know, see them and read the description of what they are. It's possible that space is in the future. So right now, as you're walking down the street, all you see is the street and the stores that you know are there and parks and stuff like that in the future. Your space can be populated with non real three dimensional objects, depending on what you opt into or what game you're playing or what you're trying to do. So that this becomes an alternate world that's overlaid on top of the real one. What does that mean for cities in general? Well, you've now introduced a new space that didn't exist before that your imagination.You can mean it's not even created really yet. But you can imagine you could have virtual stores that are that are fully three dimensionalized  in front of you that are better to deal with. You know, when you're looking at your 2D computer, you can maybe walk through the stores, something like that. It could be there's obviously be a lot more art that's happening that is not visible to the regular eye there. There can be a lot of apps that are built up to allow for people as they travel through 3D space to buy stuff. That means that the the actual physical stores, which are closing down due to COVID and other reasons that will happen even faster, things will become much more virtualize. So, again, the business center or the place where you would go to the mall, which is dying, that will start to really completely disappear, I think. And then if you're working from home, virtualized work, there's no need to go to the office anymore. Said the business centers are going to go Wall Street will probably still be there in New York for a while because of trading, etc.. So, yeah, these clusters of areas that exist where people would go to to get things done. Now it's now thing the the information and the data and everything is coming to you and it's even more personalized than before. So there's no need to go anywhere. That's the biggest change.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:36:57] So as an avid pizza eater and to pizza consumer myself, I was very tickled by the section you had in your book about how spatial computing can change the way we get our pizza. Would you mind talking about that for audience?

Irena Cronin: [00:37:14] Ok. So actually, it's interesting that you bring that up because it's an example of how business and desires of consumers don't necessarily intersect. So there was a company called Zoom, right. That was delivering pizza and actually making the pizza. Maybe not so well as it was traveling down the street to be delivered to by robot. This company actually petered out fairly recently, not due to it not being a good idea because people are actually ordering it. And I think it's really cool. It had to do with operational issues. So a lot of the time you have these technologies that people actually want, but the actual operations and the people running those companies don't do a great job. So there are other things that go into why a company and a technology is not currently working. But there's tons of these little robots now on wheels. There's one company called Starship, but there's several other ones around the world that are delivering stuff from stores, restaurants and pharmacies as well, whatever you need to get delivered. In fact, this started in Berkeley a few years ago. The University Cal, California, Berkeley, even two years ago. And you're going there. You could see these little robots going up and down the hill. It's awesome. It's contactless, which is great for, you know, this issue with COVID. It's fairly fast. It very rarely gets hijacked. They're very heavy and they're made to be heavy so that people can't just pick them up and play with them. There was a funny example in Berkeley. Sometimes you get some very interesting people. There was a guy who was watching these little robots go up and down the street for several weeks and he got mad at them. They actually stole one. And he put it in his garage that it had a beacon on it and the police came and arrested him. So all kinds of different things will be happening in the future due to spatial computing. This is just one of them.Yeah. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:39:21] Yeah. It's like these things, you see. Not only do they have the location, but they also take pictures.

Irena Cronin: [00:39:28] Oh yeah. It Could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could take a picture of the person who's tampering.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:39:33] Yeah.

Irena Cronin: [00:39:34] With the little animal. It's like a little animal. Yeah.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:39:39] Yeah. So given our current global situation with COVID and social distancing. How do you see spatial computing impacting industries that involve live attendance like concerts, sporting events, seminars, conferences? How will spatial computing change the way we attend these types of events?

Irena Cronin: [00:40:02] There is an issue. Obviously a COVID 19 is life changing for these areas. Real live conferences obviously stopped over the last few months and there have been virtualised events that have popped up. Not every conference that was live became virtualised of so many of them just decided not to have an event this year and then pushed it out to even like mid next year. Several companies have announced that they're not going to have a live event until even June or later. So that's huge. Right now we have a lot of 2D kinds of filler ways that go that go around the issue to virtualize things. So we're on Zoom right now. So that's one example. There's a whole lot of other apps that virtualize people's communication, but that's not necessarily spatial because it's 2D. The coming of the are being used for personal communications. Business communications is still quite a few number of years out. I do think that COVID has started. People thinking more along the ways of having virtualize communication, which is great. I think it's kickstarted. that kind of like mentality of it being accepted. And remote work being now elevated to the extent of it being viewed as real work before COVID anytime, you would say you did work remotely there would always be kind of stigma attached to it, as if maybe you're not working as hard when you're working remotely or the type of job that you're doing isn't viewed as that important as one that you would need to go into the office for. So that's changed. So a lot of the changes that will be extremely helpful for the eventual use of spatial computing is starting now. And I think that is the most important thing that COVID has brought about.

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Harpreet Sahota: [00:42:55] Thank you so much for sharing your insights on that. So I was wondering if we could shift gears a little bit and wondered if you could speak about your experience being a woman in STEM and if you had any advice or words of encouragement for the women in our audience who are breaking into or are currently in tech.

Irena Cronin: [00:43:12] Sure. I'd say the most important thing you can ever do is to be extremely persistent, no matter what. I mean, it's obviously important to have great technical skills and to be able to communicate well. All of those things are necessary. Some kind of business sense. But if you don't pair that up with continuous persistence, it's not going to go anywhere. And I think that's a lesson that people eventually learn if they really are still interested and going the same path that they started in, but not to give up and to to see any kind of setback, that or imagined setback that the person feels they they've gone through that it really shouldn't. And what their aspirations are that they should still keep going.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:44:07] And what can the Data community do, the STEM community do to foster the inclusion of women in Data science, in AI, and in STEM in general.

Irena Cronin: [00:44:20] I think this question can actually be bridged and used not only for Data and A.I., but, as you said, for STEM and science, science women who are interested in math. And this question really makes me think to the extent that I go back to when I was at university, I think it's extremely important to have professors and the students in a class, let's say, literally take time to listen to everyone who wants to speak who has a question and not let anyone monopolize that precious time. It's sometimes the way it's set up now. Sometimes it could feel like the person who speaks the loudest or speaks the longest is possibly smarter or whatever. You get this a lot in philosophy, which is very similar to science, and that includes Data science in a AIs. So I think it's it's extremely important to give respect to people who have questions that don't necessarily want to come off as looking ultra smart, but actually want to learn and let those people also shine.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:45:39] I absolutely love it. This is kind of the way people talk in philosophy. I was reading Seneca Letters to a Stoic, one of the letters earlier today. I think it's like letter 30 or something like that. It's on the proper style for philosophers discourse. That was the title of that letter. And that's exactly what he's talking about. He's like, man, you guys need to just get to the point, not beat around the bush, and just say what you got to say. So that's interesting. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that perspective. Last formal question before we jump into a quick lightning round. And that question is,

Harpreet Sahota: [00:46:08] What's the one thing you want people to learn from your story?

Irena Cronin: [00:46:12] What I was saying before about persistence. Just do what you want to do and don't let anybody stop you. So I've always been driven like that. So whether I decided to to learn Chinese or whatever, it's like it might take you some time and you might think. Is it all worth it or whatever. But that initial fire that you have for something, there's a reason for it. So keep going.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:46:38] Dig it. Thank you so much. So let's jump into the quick lightning round here. So if you could put up a billboard anywhere in the world, what would it say? And why?

Irena Cronin: [00:46:47] Yeah, Billboard would say have courage to do what you want to do.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:46:51] Well, how about the why behind that? Have courage to do what you want to do. So why that message?

Irena Cronin: [00:46:58] I think a lot of people, including some really smart people, they can sometimes feel like they're bounded by what their family expects them to do. This is not stopped. You know, this is the age old question with family expectations. And depending on your background, you might want to go in one direction, but you feel like you have to go in the other direction because of what your family wants to do. And it could take decades for that person to kind of unwind the life that they have created due to those expectations to actually do what they originally thought they wanted to do. So, yes,

Harpreet Sahota: [00:47:42] It's very beautifully put. Thank you. So what is something you believe that other people think is crazy?

Irena Cronin: [00:47:49] I tend to believe that human beings have souls.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:47:53] So what would you what would you think is the most bizarre aspect or quality of human nature,

Irena Cronin: [00:47:58] The need to fit in? Yeah, so I thought that a lot.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:48:03] What's an academic topic outside of Data science that you think every Data scientist should spend some time researching up on?

Irena Cronin: [00:48:12] I think anyone that does Data science has to understand behavioral science. You can't just have the the numbers and the understanding of numbers. You have to understand people a little better and how those numbers are affected by people. So a great example of this is Dan Ariely is a professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:48:37] He wrote that book predictably irrational.

Irena Cronin: [00:48:40] Yes, yeah. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:48:41] Yes. He's got some excellent work, some books. What's the number one book? Fiction, nonfiction, or maybe the one of each that you would recommend our audience read. And what was your most impactful take away from it?

Irena Cronin: [00:48:56] It has to be Animal Farm by George Orwell, and which I think is is very important for people to read, especially those that are more numerically influenced. So basically what I took away from it is logical systems can't solve or can't solve some major issues in human society. So you can do all at Data science you want. You could do all the predictive systems and all that kind of stuff. But that's not going to solve the major issue. There's other stuff that that's going on there that you need to take into account.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:49:31] So if we could somehow get a magical telephone that allowed you to contact 18 year old Irena, you know, what would you tell her?

Irena Cronin: [00:49:39] Travel even more.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:49:40] What's the best advice you've ever received?

Irena Cronin: [00:49:43] Counterintuitive not to always listened to advice no matter how good intentioned and missing.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:49:49] I like that. I like that. So what song do you currently have on repeat?

Irena Cronin: [00:49:55] All right. So for the past. Couple weeks, Jean-Michel Jarre. So any of the oxygen parts and it's electronic music, so it's not really song, but that's what I been listening to.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:07] I have to go definitely check that out.

Irena Cronin: [00:50:09] Oh, yeah,

Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:09] I do. I'm a huge fan of electronic music, especially the instrumental type. So that's definite right up my alley. How do you spell the artist's name?

Irena Cronin: [00:50:17] Oh yea. It's Jean-Michel Jarre. So the last name is J. A. R.R. E.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:24] OK, cool. Yeah, I'll definitely add those to the show notes as well and probably spend this afternoon listening to that while I work. So where can people find your book.

Irena Cronin: [00:50:32] Absolutely. Available on Amazon and also from the Pakt site online directly.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:37] And what's next on the horizon for you? Any new projects coming up? Any new books coming up?

Irena Cronin: [00:50:43] Yeah. So I run a company that happens to be called Infinite Retina, and that's how the book actually became The Infinite Retina. For my company I'm developing research offerings and products so that are very similar to what I do as an equity research analyst. But for spatial computing. So that currently doesn't really exist that well. It's not well done yet. And I'm also scoping out a new book as well.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:51:11] I'm looking forward to having you want to talk about that. So how can people connect with the work they find you online?

Irena Cronin: [00:51:18] Really easy. I'm always on my computer and I have all my social open. So if you send me a message on LinkedIn, LinkedIn is probably the easiest way. I mean, it could send me a message on Twitter or Facebook if you're connected to it. But LinkedIn, I'm able to get messages from people that aren't even connected to me so it's easy and we could take it from there.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:51:41] Irena Thank you so much for taking time out of schedule to come on to the show today. I really appreciated you talking to us about your book and kind of painting a new vision of the future for us. I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you.

Irena Cronin: [00:51:53] Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.