Dr Joe Perez_mixdown.mp3 Joe: [00:00:00] The coaching relies more on practice and practicality, and the mentoring relies more on the process, you know, it's like teaching is more about procedure. Coaching is more about practice and mentoring is more about process. Harpreet: [00:00:30] What's up, everybody, welcome to the artists of Data Science podcast, the only self-development podcast for Data scientists. You're going to learn from and be inspired by the people ideas and conversations that'll encourage creativity and innovation in yourself so that you can do the same for others. I also host open office hours you can register to attend by going to Bitly.com/adsoh forward slash a d s o h i. Look forward to seeing you all there. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode, and don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a five star review. Our guest today is an international keynote speaker and innovation specialist who brings Data to life and life to Data. Harpreet: [00:01:27] He's earned Harpreet: [00:01:28] Advanced degrees in secondary education and spent Harpreet: [00:01:31] The first 10 years of Harpreet: [00:01:32] His career as a high school teacher in the early 90s. He changed his career focus to I.T., Harpreet: [00:01:39] Which started with a which Harpreet: [00:01:40] Started off a successful twenty five year Harpreet: [00:01:43] Run at North Carolina Harpreet: [00:01:45] State Harpreet: [00:01:45] University as a business Harpreet: [00:01:47] Intelligence specialist, before eventually moving to the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, where he served as a team lead and Harpreet: [00:01:55] Senior systems analyst. Harpreet: [00:01:57] More recently, though, he's been named chief technology officer [00:02:00] at a North Carolina corporation. Along the way, he's become a much sought after resource and a data analytics and visualization expert. Harpreet: [00:02:10] So please help me in welcoming Harpreet: [00:02:12] Our guests today. A specialist in efficiency and process improvement, Dr. Joe Perez, Dr. Joe, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to come on to the show today. Appreciate having you here. Joe: [00:02:25] Absolutely. Harp. Thank you so much for inviting me, sir. It's my honor to be on your program Harpreet: [00:02:31] And it's it's my absolute pleasure to have you. It's the second time. Actually, this might be the third time where we've kind of shared the stage we were, I guess, stage meets at Kate Strachan's event and then also indicated. Yes, sir. First time we're talking one on one man, so I'm excited to have you here. So before we get into to the Data and all that and all that stuff there, let's let's get to know the man behind it. So talk to us a little bit about where you grew up and what it was like there. Sure. Joe: [00:03:00] Well, let's see. I grew up in a little town called Sanford Florida. Well, it's not so little anymore. I mean, it's kind of big. It's got an international airport now. You know, when I was a kid, the airport that was there. Oh, good heavens. It was only it was less than two miles away from my house. It was still an active naval base. And then they decommissioned it. And now, years later, they've refurbished it and turned it into an international airport. My little bitty hometown that had probably just not much more than ten twelve thousand people and oh gosh, now it's probably 60 70000 people, which, you know, I mean, that's not huge by the millions of people that live in L.A. and, you know, the other big cities of the U.S. But but it's still it was still a nice, nice small town. It was nice to play outside with my friends when I was a little kid. We do it until the streetlights would come on, you know? Oh, the good old days. I mean, if we needed water, you know, we'd like walk over to our neighbor's house and drink out of their [00:04:00] drink, out of their garden hose, you know, or you could do that and not be afraid of getting some stupid virus or something, you know? And then when we get hot, we, you know, come over to my house and jump Harpreet: [00:04:10] In my my parents pool, so I'd Joe: [00:04:12] Walk to school. I'd ride my bike to the grocery store. I didn't have a cell phone. Nobody had cell phones. You know, they weren't even invented until 30 years later or something, you know, mow the lawn for a dollar, maybe two or three, I forget. And then we'd watch The Flintstones and Johnny Quest and Star Trek first run. Now not reruns, but Star Trek in Living Color when I was a small boy. We do that with my. I do that with my mom and dad after supper. Yeah. Who would have thought cartoons at night? You know, Johnny Quest? We love Johnny Quest. So I mean, you know, times were different. People were different. The pace was slower. The days seem longer, and I suppose people seemed a little nicer. So that's that's where I grew up. Small Town USA. Harpreet: [00:04:57] Absolutely love that. So I grew up in Sacramento, California, sort of state state capital of California, in northern northern California and California is this pace of life is so, so busy. And I've been here in Winnipeg for about Harpreet: [00:05:09] Seven years now. Harpreet: [00:05:10] My wife and I just had a baby a year ago. He's turning one year on and on May 8th, right? Joe: [00:05:15] Yeah, I remember those days when my kids were that little, Harpreet: [00:05:19] Oh man, it's he's been doing some crazy stuff in the middle of the night, waking us up and causing havoc. Joe: [00:05:24] So I'll take it from experience. It does Harpreet: [00:05:27] Get better after a Joe: [00:05:28] Few years. Ok? A few years. Take heart. Harpreet: [00:05:32] Take heart. Joe: [00:05:33] Well, maybe a few months. And then it worse for a little while, and then it gets better. Harpreet: [00:05:37] Yeah, yeah. Harpreet: [00:05:38] Yeah, it's cool, man. So I think about like, you know, living here in Winnipeg, small town that that that what you're describing like, I would absolutely love that for my kid. I just world's a different place now, man. But speaking about the world being a different place as times change as we move to the future, things Harpreet: [00:05:54] Change, right? So when you're back, Harpreet: [00:05:56] You know, in your high school years, what did you think the future [00:06:00] would look like for you and how is that? Joe: [00:06:03] Oh, boy. Well. You know, a lot of things change, and a lot of things didn't like, OK, for instance. That sounds like I'm being ambiguous here, but Harpreet: [00:06:11] Even even when I was Joe: [00:06:13] Back in high school, I honestly, I Harpreet: [00:06:15] Always, always Joe: [00:06:16] Loved to teach. I always love to communicate. Harpreet: [00:06:19] I mean, Joe: [00:06:20] Even back then, I thought I'd be a teacher, which as a matter of fact, I did end up being an educator for 10 years and then in a university setting for another 25 years after that, as you already Harpreet: [00:06:30] Mentioned, and you're very kind Joe: [00:06:31] And gracious introduction, I might say. Harpreet: [00:06:33] But you know, in a way, I'm still Joe: [00:06:36] A teacher because I still have a passion for sharing information. I really enjoy seeing the lights come on in the Harpreet: [00:06:43] Eyes of my students, Joe: [00:06:45] If you will. Or I suppose I can say audience, you know, as a speaker because Harpreet: [00:06:49] You know it, it really Joe: [00:06:51] Gets my motor going. When I see Harpreet: [00:06:52] That they get Joe: [00:06:54] What I'm saying, you know? I mean, it's that way at work because part of my responsibility as a senior systems analyst is providing instruction and direction for others, you know, both on my own team and and elsewhere. So that part of, as you put it, what I imagined life would be like, you know, that part hadn't changed because again, it's part of Harpreet: [00:07:15] What what I always Joe: [00:07:16] Wanted to be, what I always wanted to do. Now what I think has changed Harpreet: [00:07:22] Since Joe: [00:07:22] I grew up during the heyday of the NASA space program in the, you know, in the late sixties. I mean, I imagined that by the time I grew up, why I'd have a flying car like George Jetson or something, right? You know, we'd have a permanent moon base like they did in many of the TV shows that that would and movies and stuff that Harpreet: [00:07:42] Would depict Joe: [00:07:43] Us as having some Harpreet: [00:07:44] Sort of permanent station on the Joe: [00:07:46] Moon. I mean, we might have in just a minute and telling us, I don't know, but I don't think we do, but we'd be flying around the Solar System, you know, or or, oh man, we'd all have jetpacks. You know, you just put it on your back, hit the button and boom, you can go fly, [00:08:00] you know, that kind of thing. Now, obviously, those kinds of things, you know, didn't didn't materialize. And it wasn't just limited to the crazy 60s. I mean, even in the mid 80s, you know, I was already well past high school, you know, past college. By then, I remember the back to the future movies 30 Harpreet: [00:08:15] Something years ago. I mean Harpreet: [00:08:17] That. Joe: [00:08:18] Yeah, right? You'd think we'd be having flying cars in 30 years. So, you know, it went from the Jetsons to a hover conversion or whatever, right? Whatever they call it, Jaws 22 or whatever it was, and hoverboards and self-driving jackets and things. So and that, you know, most that hadn't come to pass. But the flip phone Harpreet: [00:08:38] Was, you know, Captain Kirk Joe: [00:08:40] Had the first flip phone right with the communicator on Star Trek. So, hey, Gene Roddenberry got something right? But another thing that I imagined back in high school, I figured that by the time I grew up, I'd be I'd be married and have a couple of kids. And you know, what's really cool is, to my utter amazement, beyond my wildest dreams. I mean, that's that's really come to pass. I mean, I am just so grateful that God's given me the most, Harpreet: [00:09:03] Absolutely the best, Joe: [00:09:05] Most amazing wife that I could ever possibly want. I mean, way, way more than I deserve to. Absolutely phenomenal. Boys, you know, you have your little one who's a year old. I remember those days mine are grown up. They've grown to be exceptional young men. So very proud of me, proud of me, proud of them. Excuse me, really proud of them, and I want them to be proud of me too. But one thing that has surprised me, though, is the amazing opportunities that that have literally dropped in my lap. As far as you know, speaking at conferences, I mean, even even as little as recently as three years ago, I never dreamed that I will be averaging more than 25 speaking engagements every year. You know, it's like I'm amazed, humbled, excited and extremely grateful. You know, all of the same time, you know, all those emotions kind of mix together. So grateful for everything God's provided. Now, of course, I'm not implying that, you know, I'm looking at the world through rose colored glasses [00:10:00] or that I'm free of problems. I mean, there's plenty of those. I mean, that's that's part of what we all call life, you know? But in spite of whatever good, bad or ugly, you know, anything that comes my way. Hey, I'm just thankful to be alive and grateful. Grateful for what I have, rather than rather than complaining about what I don't have. I think it's better to be positive and focus on what I do have. So I know I kind of strayed off the topic a little bit, but you know, those are the kinds of things that you imagine as a kid that I'm just so grateful and thankful, many of which have come true. And I'm probably just as grateful that a lot of the things that I imagined perhaps have not come true, like the flying cars, you know, Harpreet: [00:10:42] I mean, like Back to the Future, my absolute favorite movie. Harpreet: [00:10:45] I will love that. Harpreet: [00:10:46] Definitely waiting for 2015 to roll around with those flying cars. But Brian happened. Yeah, that's that's awesome that you've got, you know, so many speaking engagements every year. I think that's, you know, you're definitely a busy man all over the place with these engagements. So help help my audience here figure out how to become better public speakers. Talk to us about this Harpreet: [00:11:06] Dynamic speaking and and these Harpreet: [00:11:09] Four essential AIs. Yeah, speaking. Harpreet: [00:11:13] So sure Joe: [00:11:14] Thing Harp. Yeah, I love talking about this, you know, because in my experience, I mean, and again, I don't mean that to sound our arrogant. I mean, I've just been at it for a long time. You give a trained monkey a hammer, and sooner or later you're going to say it OK. Harpreet: [00:11:27] So I'd like Joe: [00:11:27] To think maybe I'm a little bit Harpreet: [00:11:29] Smarter than than Joe: [00:11:30] A monkey, you know? But but over decades of experience, I mean, I've been doing this for more than 30 years, almost 40. So the speaking isn't new. Harpreet: [00:11:38] What is new Joe: [00:11:39] Is that in the last three years, as I alluded Harpreet: [00:11:42] To a couple minutes ago, is Joe: [00:11:43] Doing it at conferences that are outside of my my place of work or my city, my local area. And again, we're talking part of that. You know, before the pandemic hit, where we're all in our local area until we get back to in-person events. But but but as far as dynamic speaking is concerned in [00:12:00] all the experience that I've had, the conferences that I've attended, the places that I've gone as both an attendee and a speaker, I get to sit and listen to a lot of people. Harpreet: [00:12:08] And, you know, people get tired Joe: [00:12:11] Of being subjective to what I'm going to call death by PowerPoint, you know, speakers that just drone on and on and on without providing anything that's actionable, without providing anything that's practical to what Harpreet: [00:12:24] You know, what's Joe: [00:12:25] Applicable to what they're doing. I mean, I might as well be sitting there and watching grass grow. You know, it's it's more exciting to watch the PGA Golf Tour on ABC. I know here comes the, you know. You know, that's that's more like or watching paint dry or something. Why subject people to that? Come on, they've given up their time to come to this conference. They need to be challenged. They need to have somebody with passion that's going to tell them something that they need, you know, as for me, I'm I want to break that mold, right? That's what I call dynamic speaking. And it's important, you know, if I'm remembering this right, there's a recent UCLA. I think it was UCLA. A recent Harpreet: [00:13:04] Study that found Joe: [00:13:05] For the most effective communication, something like 57 percent of the message comes from your nonverbal communication. Only 36 comes from your voice. You had that up that leaves like seven. The remaining seven percent is what comes from your content. Ok, so to me, that suggests that people need to spend more time on preparing the delivery than developing great content. The content is important, but how you say it is even more, you know, to expand on that. To get to that, I talk about what Harpreet: [00:13:37] What I call those four Joe: [00:13:38] Essential AIs that you were talking about for dynamic speaking when I say I want Harpreet: [00:13:42] To break the mold Joe: [00:13:45] Here. This one I'm talking about, you know, after people have heard me speak, all right. Harpreet: [00:13:49] I want them to be enriched, Joe: [00:13:52] Empowered, encouraged and educated. Those are the four essential AIs now by enriched. All [00:14:00] right. I mean that they ought to be better off after they've heard me speak than they were before they walked into the room. Harpreet: [00:14:08] Whether it's a Joe: [00:14:09] Virtual room or a real room, you know, I Harpreet: [00:14:12] Need to enhance their Joe: [00:14:14] Ability to perform whatever task that they want to do when they get back or whatever task that I'm talking about in my in my speech, you know, they need to be enriched better off. All right. What was the third one empowered? All right. So what do I mean, empowered? I want people to take what I've talked about and applied in a practical way when they return to their office. You know, I want to Harpreet: [00:14:37] Do more than just spoon feed them the facts, Joe: [00:14:40] Right? I need to present my topic in a way that's going to ignite the same passion within Harpreet: [00:14:46] Them that I've Joe: [00:14:47] Got. I've got this passion, you know, I've got this energy. I want to ignite that within them. I want to empower them so that they can see that they've got what it takes to succeed within themselves. You know, they've been empowered. I have taught them something that they can then apply and use. It's like like a difference between handing you, if you're hungry, what am I going to do? Am I going to hand you a fish or am I going to show you how to fish? Well, if I hand you a fish, you'll eat today. If I show you how to fish, well, you'll eat for your whole life. Yeah, well, unless you don't like fish, in which case the analogy Harpreet: [00:15:20] Falls apart, but whatever. Moving on. All right. The fourth Joe: [00:15:24] One educated. Yeah, right? Educated. That's the fourth one by educated. What I mean is I want my Harpreet: [00:15:30] Audience to get it Joe: [00:15:32] All right to get the knowledge that I have to impart them from my topic. But I've got to do it in a way that's going to be exciting. Harpreet: [00:15:40] That's going to be Joe: [00:15:41] Visually compelling, done in a way that's going to draw them in. It's going to engage them. That involves multiple senses. All the stuff that I learned when I was an educator comes to, you know, that that all comes back to me, you know, as I'm preparing my speeches, my talks and so forth Harpreet: [00:15:59] And knowing [00:16:00] that I need Joe: [00:16:00] To draw people in, I need to involve those senses that. I seek to both to resonate and to be relevant to where they are, what they're doing, where they're going, and to tie it all together. I want to be that catalyst that both challenges and propels my audience to do what it takes to push themselves to be better. That's what I want, you know? And you know, I suppose with that in mind, maybe I could just add a fifth one, a fifth. Essentially, that's Harpreet: [00:16:32] Entertaining. Okay, right? I mean, that's if you think about it, Joe: [00:16:36] You know, education speaks to the mind. But I think entertainment speaks to the soul. I mean, there's no reason why you can't have some fun when you're learning something. Loosen up, man. Don't just sit Harpreet: [00:16:48] There like a bump Joe: [00:16:49] On a log or a stuffed shirt. You know, if you're going to talk to somebody, throw a little life into the party, you know, bring the energy, bring your a game, give it everything you've got, you know, leave it all on the field. You know, I learned as an educator that the more connection points you make with the people that you're trying to teach or communicate to, the more effective that communication is going to be, the more the greater retention there's going to be in the learning process, the more the longer they're going to remember whatever it is that you're telling them, and that's getting back to the business Harpreet: [00:17:21] Of having both relevance Joe: [00:17:23] And resonance. But I feel the only way Harpreet: [00:17:25] I'm going to do it is Joe: [00:17:27] By using those four essential AIs making sure that they are enriched, empowered, encouraged and educated, and maybe add that fifth one entertained. Harpreet: [00:17:41] I like it a lot, and how does that framework change, if at all, depending on the audience that we have in front of us, right? Harpreet: [00:17:47] So does the framework need any Harpreet: [00:17:49] Adjustment to forward, let's say, in front of the audience at a virtual conference or, you know, whenever we get a chance to in-person conference? Does it change if we're giving you a presentation to a room full of Harpreet: [00:17:57] Executives who we're trying to [00:18:00] Harpreet: [00:18:00] Convince of our Harpreet: [00:18:00] Methodology? Absolutely. Joe: [00:18:02] Yes, sir, it does. Harpreet: [00:18:03] It does make it in the same way, OK? Joe: [00:18:05] Again, I draw back on my experiences as a teacher, you know, in learning the art of teaching of of being an educator, a communicator, right, is knowing that you're not going to teach math to a fifth grader in the same way that you would to say, I don't know, calculus in college, right? There are two totally different animals. Not that I'm implying that kids are animals. Harpreet: [00:18:26] Some might act like, well, whatever. But yeah, you've got Joe: [00:18:31] Executives sitting there or you've got a bunch of MBAs or you've got Data scientists or you've got educated fellow educators, you know, and I've spoken to conferences and oh good heavens, probably about nine or 10 different industries, and I know that things have to pivot. Things have to change. You have to take your audience into consideration. You have to take the theme of the conference. You have to take the mission, vision and goals of the organization. That's putting it on. Whether or not you're doing an opening keynote or a closing keynote, you know, rouse everybody up and set the pace or wrap everything. You know, you're either rousing or you're Harpreet: [00:19:05] Wrapping, OK? Joe: [00:19:06] And I don't mean, Harpreet: [00:19:07] You know, I mean, Joe: [00:19:08] Wrap, you know, wrapping it all up, bringing things to a close and ending off with. And yeah, it's different whether you're virtual or in person. For instance, we were talking before the session here that when we were in person, one of the things that I love to do is to take a whole bowl full of. And I keep saying Skittles. They're not Skittles. Those starburst. Thank you. I've lost the word. Yeah, and and what I do is I would talk about my points resonate. Ok, irrelevance, right? What's the second point? Resonate, right? And when they get it right, I'd ask them to tell me and they get it right. I just toss them a starburst, you know, and one of the things that I would guarantee to conference organizers when they would ask me to speak, whether, you know, a keynote or a breakout or whatever, I would tell them, OK, look, I guarantee you that Harpreet: [00:19:52] By the end of my speech, Joe: [00:19:55] They will have my outline memorized. I guarantee it, you know? Harpreet: [00:19:59] And [00:20:00] so it's a little Joe: [00:20:00] More it's a little it's a lot more challenging to do that in the virtual realm. In a way you almost have to bring more energy into the room because, you know, people sitting there looking at a computer screen, they're used to seeing Tony Stark put on a metal suit and hit a button. And he's flying, you know, he hits the jets on on his boots and you know, or Spider-Man picks up a car with one hand, the Hulk turns green and smashes a Qatari spaceship. They're used to seeing Harpreet: [00:20:27] All kinds of spectacular Joe: [00:20:29] Wonder Harpreet: [00:20:29] On the screen, the big screen when Joe: [00:20:32] They go to the movie and now, you know, on their computer screen, if they if they rent a video or whatnot. So that's a heck of a lot of entertainment to compete with. So when you don't have the benefit of the body language, the inflections, the expression of the face, the feedback, you know, the ambiance, the vibe, the chemistry Harpreet: [00:20:51] That you can have with people when you Joe: [00:20:53] Have them in the same room. And you know that if you told a joke that falls flat, you can more quickly shift gears and go another route, you know, or you see that you've said something that might be halfway funny. Three or four people are laughing, five or six others Harpreet: [00:21:06] Start laughing, and then you go Joe: [00:21:08] With it, you know you can. I'm not saying I'm not a stand up comedian, as you can tell. Harpreet: [00:21:12] But you know, I mean, injecting Joe: [00:21:14] A little humor to Harpreet: [00:21:15] To break the ice. Yeah, that's a bit more effective in a in a in a real Joe: [00:21:20] In-person audience than it is in a virtual world. So again, it's more challenging. One of the things Harpreet: [00:21:27] That I that I Joe: [00:21:28] Did was I created games to play the online quiz maker type thing where you have multiple choice questions. At the very end, I tell them, you know, there might have been a PDF that they would download and they can be filling it out. And, you know, answering the questions that I would that I would be reciting as we go through the outline. And then at the end, there would be like a 10 minute game. I'd ask 10, put them up on the screen and people can, you know, log into the game and hit the ABCD, whatever, and you get more points if you answered more [00:22:00] quickly. And at the end, whoever got the most points would win. And as the game would progress, they could see the the leaderboard up on the screen. Really, it was a lot of fun. Two or three conference organizers where I did this virtual conferences, they liked it so much. Harpreet: [00:22:15] They said, You know what? We're going to give Joe: [00:22:17] Out a gift card, an EA card at the end, you know, like an Amazon, you know, $25 Amazon card or a $10, $20 Starbucks card or something like that or Panera Bread or whatnot. I thought that was a neat idea. I never would have thought they did that, you know? And so that kind of it kind of helped make up for the fact that you don't have that interpersonal interaction in the virtual world as you do in. The real world, so yeah, it is you. The framework still remains the same, though, you know, you still you still need to enrich, empower, encourage and educate. You're just Harpreet: [00:22:53] Employing different Joe: [00:22:55] Means to get to the same end. Harpreet: [00:22:59] And very much that I appreciate that. Absolutely. That's like a takeaway there, so touching back on your teaching experience. So both this video that I that I saw on your YouTube channel I thought was really interesting. It was all about the the madness behind the method, and it's talking about the difference between teaching, coaching and mentoring. So I'm curious, how do you define each of these terms? Joe: [00:23:20] Well, you know, there are some things that there are some things that are that are pretty obvious. There are some subtleties that you can weave into any working definition of of these types, you know, but these three methodologies Harpreet: [00:23:34] For professional development Joe: [00:23:36] In general, you can paint them with a broad brush. All right. Teaching. Typically, I would define teaching as the art of imparting knowledge or skill to the giving of facts and the receiving Harpreet: [00:23:48] Of facts, giving Joe: [00:23:48] And receiving effects coaching. I think it's a bit more practical, providing some sort of intensive training in Harpreet: [00:23:58] A specific topic Joe: [00:23:59] Or [00:24:00] a specific sport more like. And it tends to emphasize more the practical application, although teaching you want to be practical as well, but the method of coaching relies more on practicality. Mentoring mentoring is more like a process than an event. The long term, gradual transferring of knowledge experience from from an older person or a more experienced person to some protege who, you know, a younger protege. Harpreet: [00:24:28] Really interesting. It's like an almost a subtle Harpreet: [00:24:30] Difference because, you know, Harpreet: [00:24:32] Sometimes I feel like I Harpreet: [00:24:34] Use those words interchangeably. Harpreet: [00:24:36] But me, you know, at one point in my Harpreet: [00:24:37] Career, I was a teacher as well Harpreet: [00:24:39] For a very short stint. But, you know, I'm also a mentor at Data science dream job mentorship platform, and those lines get really blurred. Sometimes I Harpreet: [00:24:47] Because, you know, teaching and Harpreet: [00:24:49] Mentoring, I feel like are similar, but like the way that you've described it there, it really helps to understand the difference. So I mean, when it comes to teaching, right, that's easy. Kind of Harpreet: [00:24:59] Just show up to a course Harpreet: [00:25:00] Or whatever, and you get a teacher when it comes to finding a teacher. It's kind of easy in the sense that Harpreet: [00:25:07] Sign up for course, get a teacher Harpreet: [00:25:09] Coaching and mentoring. I think it's a little bit harder to find Joe: [00:25:14] The right fit for you. There's. Sure. That's right, because one is more, the coaching relies more Harpreet: [00:25:19] On practice and Joe: [00:25:20] Practicality, and the mentoring relies more on the process. You know, Harpreet: [00:25:25] It's like teaching Joe: [00:25:26] Is more about procedure. Coaching is Harpreet: [00:25:30] More about practice, Joe: [00:25:32] And mentoring is more about process, you know? Harpreet: [00:25:36] So. Yeah, and you also talk about this. Harpreet: [00:25:40] This idea of this kind of like Harpreet: [00:25:42] Structural matrix for these three approaches. So you talk to us about what this is and how how can we leverage each of these methods Joe: [00:25:50] For sure, maximum effect. So in this structural matrix, it's that's something that I developed to kind of build a framework around which we [00:26:00] when would gauge the success or failure, the level of success that we have with our varying approaches in Harpreet: [00:26:07] Professional professional Joe: [00:26:09] Development. There's six components or six nodes. Harpreet: [00:26:13] Ok, so Joe: [00:26:14] The best way to leverage them and I call them there are the let's see. You got me on the emphasis, the focus, the goal, the approach, the summary and the relationship. All right. You need to be aware of the different characteristics of of each maintaining enough flexibility to pivot to whichever one that works best for the situation. And that's taking the personalities into account situations, events into account. Just just to give you a brief example when we're talking about the relationship. Ok, what relationship do you have? Well, with with teaching, you're the pupil with coaching. You're the player, but with mentoring. Harpreet: [00:26:57] Oh fine, Pat Hogan, you are. Yeah. Joe: [00:27:00] Ok. I mean, you know, the mentor is the one who can tell you, you know, he's your your your biggest cheerleader and your toughest critic, all at the same time. You know about the only one who can come up to you and tell you [00:27:12] Do or do not. There is no try. Harpreet: [00:27:17] Love it. I love that intro Harpreet: [00:27:20] Impersonation of, yeah, Harpreet: [00:27:22] Thank you, so. So within this kind of framework, teaching, coaching, mentoring, you talk about these ideas of. Adhesion and cohesion, yeah. So what do these have to do with, you know, closing our skill gaps? Sure. Joe: [00:27:38] Well, OK, so you may I'm sure you'll recall because for you, high school was a little bit shorter, less time ago. You know, for me, it was probably about 90 years ago, as some might think. But no, I'm not that old. You recall from your high school chemistry. All right. Adhesion is defined as the force between molecules of different substances. [00:28:00] All right. Whereas cohesion is the force between molecules of like substances the same substance as it were, for instance, it's the adhesion of water that makes it bead and stick to the roof of a car or the hood of a car that has just been waxed. But it's the cohesion of water Harpreet: [00:28:23] That makes it stick to itself Joe: [00:28:25] And fall as drops when it rains, right? Ok, so we got that settled the difference between the two. Well, here's how it applies in professional development. And you know, I'm assuming that's what we're talking about. You're right, the teaching, coaching and mentoring. We're not talking about it's application with Krazy Glue epoxy or the difference between painter's tape Harpreet: [00:28:44] And duct tape. Joe: [00:28:45] Not the same thing. And I agree. Ok. But no, in the context. Seriously, the context of professional development here, continuing the thread of teaching, coaching and mentoring. All right. When let's see, how do I put this? When, when, when you put people with different personalities, OK, differing personalities are paired up Harpreet: [00:29:06] When the teaching, Joe: [00:29:08] Coaching or mentoring process is done correctly, the relative strengths and weaknesses of these Harpreet: [00:29:15] Differing personalities Joe: [00:29:17] Will complement each other, and their adhesion brings them to new heights of success. Now, in a similar way, Harpreet: [00:29:26] If you pair up like Joe: [00:29:28] Personalities together, people that are really similar. Ok, well, that's going to foster some sense of camaraderie and and sympathy. You know, it's like you're saying, Hey, you know what? I've been there. I know what you're going through. I think the same way about this and and their cohesion helps them to tackle difficulties and break through barriers. Harpreet: [00:29:48] So remembering those chemical Joe: [00:29:51] Properties of the elements as it were helps you think about the chemical properties that people and you know, when we talk about the way people relate to each other, what do we call it? We [00:30:00] call it chemistry. And so remembering Harpreet: [00:30:03] Those those things Joe: [00:30:05] I believe can be leveraged to get you from where you're at to where you want to go. Harpreet: [00:30:11] I really, really enjoy that, thank you so much, Dr. Joe. Harpreet: [00:30:13] Yes, sir. Harpreet: [00:30:14] How did you find your way into the Data world coming from from such strong education background into the Data world? What was the what was the the hook or the the calling for you there? Joe: [00:30:25] To me, my hook, I like the way you say it. You know, the calling is the fact that I Harpreet: [00:30:31] Realized that to me. Joe: [00:30:35] To me, I want to take a Harpreet: [00:30:36] Report, I'm not just Joe: [00:30:37] Interested in Harpreet: [00:30:38] Communicating the facts. Joe: [00:30:40] I want to do it as I do in my teaching and in my communicating. I want to do it in a visually compelling way. It's the same way with using graphics to tell a story. Ok? Using charts to tell a story. You know, David McCandless said in a 2010 TED Talk. That site by far has the highest bandwidth of any of the five senses. About 80 percent of the information we take in is by a matter of fact. Research since then has proven it to be more like 90 percent. And it's that fascination with the neuroscience, with the with the process of learning and with how we process things visually Harpreet: [00:31:18] Something like sixty Joe: [00:31:19] Sixty eight thousand times more quickly than we do, you know, any of the other senses? Ok. As you know, I'm really I'm really passionate about that. Know, because the way we communicate is one of my Data heroes for for lack of a better term. He's he's an account executive. He's an expert. Data storyteller name is Spencer Sahibzada. Harpreet: [00:31:37] The guy is the guy is amazing. Joe: [00:31:39] He's a genius. He says Data storytelling is both an art and a science. Our data visualizations are the most powerful when they find this balance. And you know, that's the whole point, right? When you're creating data visualizations, you know, graphs that are based on information, your goal ought to be to make your presentation [00:32:00] actionable to give decision makers the insight they need to make the right decision. That really motivates me, you know, being able to knowing how to manipulate, not manipulate today, but to categorize and summarize and aggregate the data in the ways that will lend themselves to being expressed graphically. And then combining that Harpreet: [00:32:23] With the Joe: [00:32:24] Storytelling ability that I have as a teacher. Well, I mean, it was just a perfect, perfect marriage of the two. I mean, we an NC State, when I first started, we were we were talking data visualizations before. It was a cool thing, you know, back in the day when it used to be all done with a program called DB four and Fox Pro that was before you were born, I think. But, you know, progressing from that to using newer tools. Yeah, the tools are newer. The bells and whistles are greater. The capacity of the processing power of the computers are, you know, off the charts as far as how everything has grown exponentially beyond our wildest dreams. But you know, the concept still the same. You have a message that you want to get across. And just like I talked about in speaking, you know, in doing so in a dynamic manner and doing so in a way that does awaken the desire in somebody else to learn, that ignites the passion as I do in my speaking in my teaching, I I found that doing this with with Harpreet: [00:33:21] Assembling reports in Joe: [00:33:22] A visually compelling manner to give the people the insight they need to make those decisions or to answer those questions or to solve those problems. That's something that I found so very appealing, and it seemed to be a wonderful combination of the, you know, the love for teaching, the love for communication and the communication, doing it in a visually compelling manner. Harpreet: [00:33:47] So long, the journey in a Data career, I'm wondering, what are some of the delights and disasters that you've Harpreet: [00:33:52] Seen being Harpreet: [00:33:53] Made with data driven decisions? Joe: [00:33:56] Yeah. You know, this is this kind of goes with with that topic. I mean, Harpreet: [00:33:58] The delight comes [00:34:00] Joe: [00:34:00] When the data indeed is a thing of beauty and it's the thing that drives the decision Harpreet: [00:34:06] Making. You know, that is when Joe: [00:34:08] When organizations Harpreet: [00:34:09] Have gone from Joe: [00:34:11] From being in what I Harpreet: [00:34:12] Call Data Joe: [00:34:13] Denial to being data Harpreet: [00:34:14] Driven in their decision making Joe: [00:34:16] Process. But when when all they do is just go with their gut. All right. They're just inviting disaster, you know, I mean, wrong decisions that were based on having wrong information. Well, that's going to lead to wrong actions. It's like everybody's heard the story of how one word from a Japanese communication in nineteen forty one, specifically early December 1941, caused us to think I wasn't such a big threat and what happened on the 7th boom? We got bombed more than what is it? Three thousand eight hundred and some Americans were killed at the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor. Bad Data, you know, as part of part of that. And you know, nobody wants that. That's the disaster I'm talking. I mean, may not necessarily be as tragic and as drastic as, you know, an attack that destroys a lot of battleships and costs thousands of lives, but still the disastrous results of the consequences that come about as having made these wrong decisions that were based on incorrect information. Now people who have good intuition on the flip side of that, they're going to tend to make right decisions. But even then, still just going with your gut isn't always the best route to take. It's important to consider the Data whatever data you have available, and we're not, you know, there is no shortage of data these days. The problem is that the the accumulation of data, it's the appropriate cataloging, assembling and reporting of the data. You know, we got plenty of data, right? So it needs to be considered when you're when you're going about your business decisions and the information and the insight from which you're going to gain that insight. And that's the making [00:36:00] it actionable that we were talking about, you know, focusing on things that are going to Harpreet: [00:36:04] Inform Joe: [00:36:06] Their gut, right? If you think like you've got some good intuitions, you want to go with your gut, fine, go with your gut, but make sure you have informed Harpreet: [00:36:15] Your gut, you know, because people that are Joe: [00:36:18] Trying to run their business. Harpreet: [00:36:21] I mean, they've got to make decisions all the time, right? Joe: [00:36:23] So when they're successful in making those decisions, that's the delight that I'm talking about Harpreet: [00:36:29] When they blow it. Joe: [00:36:31] Well, then it's a disaster. Harpreet: [00:36:32] And they could have avoided Joe: [00:36:35] That disaster by paying attention to their data. Harpreet: [00:36:40] I fully love that, thank you very, very much for that, Dr. Joe. Yes, sir. So. Talk to us about, you know, some soft skills here, because I feel like you have some great wisdom to share with with the audience here, because in my experience, a lot of up and coming Data scientists or Data people who are new to the field, they tend to overemphasize the technical Harpreet: [00:37:03] Skills, thinking that that's Harpreet: [00:37:05] What's going to separate them from the rest of the competition. What are some soft skills that candidates could really start practicing? That's really going to help separate them from their competition. So maybe give me your your top one soft skill that you think candidates should start practicing it and. How can they go about exercising that skill or cultivation skill? Joe: [00:37:30] Will Harp, if I were doing the hiring, the first thing that I'd want. For somebody to be dependable. All right, so I'd say dependability, I mean, Harpreet: [00:37:40] No matter how good you Joe: [00:37:42] May be at the technical stuff at the end of the day, if the boss can't count on you to get the job done. Whether he's he or she is looking at you or not, what good is all that high level skill? You know, I mean, we call it soft skill, but there's nothing soft about. I mean, yeah, we can say soft [00:38:00] in that Harpreet: [00:38:00] It's not so easily. Joe: [00:38:02] It's ethereal in a way, you know, it's not a thing that you can define. I today will be dependable. I today will be, you know, it's something that's developed within your character, you know, within your in your own personal, you know, for that matter, dedication to your craft. You know, that's largely missing. Harpreet: [00:38:21] I mean, a Joe: [00:38:22] Willingness to to give it all when you've got a task set before you not just be satisfied with doing the bare minimum. So we can say soft in the sense that you can't really define it by hard and fast rules. I mean, you know, we live in a society and I don't mean to sound unkind, and I'm not singling any people out in any way. I want to be kind, but I feel that we live in a society in which we've seen too many people with this entitlement mentality. You know, people who think everybody owes them something and I'm all I'm going to do. I'm just going to do just the bare minimum. I'm going to do just enough to get by and keep me from getting fired. Don't ask me to commit to a deadline, you know? No, that's the time for that is far past. I mean, we need to be dependable. We need to be teachable. Having an attitude that says, you know what, no matter how smart I think I am and I am pretty smart, I'm not so good that I can't learn something from somebody else who Harpreet: [00:39:17] Has something they want to Joe: [00:39:18] Teach me, you know, shoot. The common mentality is just crazy these days. I mean, let me tell you, Harp, I will take some. I will take just one person with a good, solid, dependable work ethic. Over three or four lazy, uncommitted hotshot know it alls who think they're God's gift to society. You know, I don't care how much smarter and more highly skilled technology wise that they might be. There is something to be said about good, solid down to earth values. And the way that looks is by being willing to start at the bottom, being willing to accept criticism, being willing to have those teachable moments where, you know, I maybe [00:40:00] I don't know it all and someone else can teach me something. And being willing to do more than just the bare minimum to get by, if something if it's worth enough to you to have it, it's worth enough to you to work for it. I mean, that's why it's called work. You know, it should take at least some sort of effort. I mean, you know, it's something that you love doing then. But, you know, have some have some internal I don't know some moral compass about you that says, I've been hired to do a job. I'm going to give it everything I've got and I'm going to be dependable and I'm not going to be so arrogant that I think I'm the best thing since sliced bread. I think that's the kind of the combination I know you asked for. One, I may have given you about six or seven, but you know what I mean? All boils. It just boils down to that. One thing is the, I suppose, a personal integrity personal because, you know, really, if you are, if you do have that moral compass where you do say that you have been entrusted with a task and you're going to give it everything that you got and commit yourself to getting it done and keeping your word right. If you've got that one basic thing down, then the rest of these will fall into place, in my opinion. Harpreet: [00:41:16] I absolutely love that, thank you very much for that after, Joe. So let's do our last formal question before you jump into the random round. All right. It's one hundred years in the future. Oh, do you want to be remembered for? Joe: [00:41:31] Well, Sherman, I'm not going to be alive in a hundred years because I'll be a Harpreet: [00:41:35] Hundred and whatever. Joe: [00:41:36] Yeah. A hundred years from now, I think I want to be remembered as the guy that. Brighten your day, lightened your load and heightened your senses. How's that? You know, whatever I say or do. All right. I want people to be better off than what they after. I after I was in the room when I came on the scene, I would like that [00:42:00] to be said about me that that I'm remembered as somebody that people were better off after I was in the room. I mean, you know, as a Christian that has an even bigger meaning for me, you know, I want to be remembered as somebody who who put Christ as Savior first and his family and his fellow man above himself in his own comfort. Someone who wasn't selfish, somebody who I guess it was obvious that he was more interested in glorifying God and being faithful to his wife and kids than he was making a big name for himself. And you know, the big name for yourself will come if you're known as somebody that that was more interested in others and helping others get ahead. You know, I can't think of a better legacy that I could leave behind and be remembered in that way 100 years from now, when I'm probably very likely we'll be dead and gone. Harpreet: [00:42:50] Thank you very much for that, Dr. Joe. Let's go ahead and jump into the random round first question. Oh boy. Yeah. First question I got for you is what are you currently reading? Joe: [00:42:59] Oh, man, I love this. There is a series by Gilbert Morris, it's called Lyons, you might call it the biblical historical fiction genre. I guess this guy knows how to make characters come alive. And I mean, in this particular series, he brings a series of Old Testament Bible characters to life. Like, what was it like for Noah? You know, you hear the story Noah built the ark, gathered all the animals, blah blah, you know? But yet he turns this Noah guy into a real, honest to goodness, true person. What was he like when he was a kid? You know, what was it like getting the animals? What was it like with his three sons? Did they ever have any arguments? You know, when did he get married? And all the stuff that we don't hear about, we don't know about this man's got an incredible imagination. You know what was their life like? You know, their struggles, their families that they had real day to day problems just like we do, and they had real day to day victories like we do, you know, making these characters come to life. I mean, very, [00:44:00] very compelling series. I start reading and I just can't put it down. So the one I'm on now is the one on Noah called heart of a Lion. Harpreet: [00:44:07] But yeah, Lions of Joe: [00:44:08] Judah series Gilbert Moors. Harpreet: [00:44:11] What song do you currently have on repeat? Joe: [00:44:14] Oh, man, I am really into the southern gospel genre. It's like a it's like a cross between Christian and country sort of real peppy stuff. Anyway, the one song in Harpreet: [00:44:27] Particular is called Put Out the Joe: [00:44:28] Fire by a group called Greater Vision. It's nice, upbeat, inspiring and puts a smile on your face. Harpreet: [00:44:36] Or Random Question Generator, do a couple of questions here. Ok, first question, who are some of your heroes? Joe: [00:44:43] Some of my heroes well in the Data world, I talked about Spencer Saab, Zach Scott Taylor, the Data Whisperer, Susan Walsh Harp good friends of mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you're you're a bit of a hero yourself in the Data world in the I won't get into the politics, Harpreet: [00:45:01] But I think about those Joe: [00:45:02] In the past will be like Winston Churchill. You know, failure Harpreet: [00:45:06] Is let's see. What is Joe: [00:45:07] It? Victory is not victory is not forever. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Harpreet: [00:45:15] You know, Winston Churchill. Joe: [00:45:16] So he's he's a hero. Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln For four figures of the past and in the speaking world, I would say philosophically, people like Harpreet: [00:45:25] Simon Sinek that have some Joe: [00:45:27] Very, oh my goodness, some really, really heart stirring things. You know, that kind of gets you to think, you know, in the historical figures in the Christian world, I would say great preachers of the old like Charles had Spurgeon, Billy Sunday and today's world speakers like David Jeremiah and others that are just really, really faithful to their families, faithful to their calling. And you know, whether you believe their message or not, you got to admire somebody who will stand up in the face of adversity and do whatever it takes to get their job done. And that's something [00:46:00] you can admire in anybody, I guess. You know, we talk about heroes and what is the definition of a hero, right? Is it a person that puts on a cape and can bust through walls with her bare hands? No, it's a hero is somebody who stands tall and does right, no matter what the odds are against her or him. The people who are on the front lines battling COVID, the the researchers that are trying to figure out the best way to have these vaccines, which are now thankfully, you know, millions of people have been vaccinated, thank goodness. But you know, the firefighters, the police, the teachers that are standing up and teaching kids and working long hours and not getting paid any extra for the hundreds and hundreds and thousands of papers that they have to grade and the stuff they have to put up with and and the love that they have for their kids, whether it's returned or not. You know that that give and give and give without expecting. I mean, they get a paycheck, but nowhere nearly as much as they should get paid. You know, people, those types of things without naming a specific individual. I suppose that is a heroic thing to me. That's the true definition of a hero. Somebody who stands up does what's right, loves with all their heart, doesn't expect anything in return and makes makes the world a better place to live in. That's a hero to me. Harpreet: [00:47:18] Awesome. So when people come to you for help, what do they usually want help with? Joe: [00:47:21] Let's see how to tie a tie. No, that's my son. Yeah. Well, typically with what's the best way to report on these particular data points? I've got four or five tables that I'm trying to build, and I want to make sure that, you know, should I be normalizing them or normalizing them? I've got I've got a song that I'm putting together, and I'm not sure what chord progression to use. You know, should I go to f minor or Harpreet: [00:47:47] Would an f do? Joe: [00:47:48] Or if I have an f, should I go to a minor Harpreet: [00:47:51] Or will a G, you know? Joe: [00:47:52] Yeah, that's another avenue of me. We hadn't talked yet, so I get questions about music from my, from my peers that that know that I'm [00:48:00] that I'm a musician. So yeah, I bet a real gamut. It just runs the whole gamut. Harpreet: [00:48:07] Still, one last question from here. Yep. When was the last time you changed your opinion about something major? Hmm. Joe: [00:48:18] The last time I changed my Harpreet: [00:48:20] Opinion about something Joe: [00:48:22] Major. Well, I can't say I used to hate corn on the cob, and I love it now, I wouldn't call it if you're in the South. That's a major thing. Ok? I did not like corn on the cob growing up changed my mind. I can't get enough of it now. So but that's not of any consequence in the world. That is a major thing. Harpreet: [00:48:42] If you live in in the South, I would Joe: [00:48:44] Say how I felt. Harpreet: [00:48:50] How I felt about China. Joe: [00:48:54] You know, again, I don't want to get into any political things, but, you know, the in differentiating between the Chinese people and the Chinese government and, you know, always against the philosophy of communism and against the repressive regime, that will take Harpreet: [00:49:14] An idea that may sound Joe: [00:49:16] Nice for some people, equality and all this kind of thing, but with the terrible, repressive regime regime that has crushed its people and so forth, separating that and thinking that everybody who is a Chinese official is Harpreet: [00:49:30] Out to kill their Joe: [00:49:32] People when that's not true, that there are some good people that are just stuck in a bad situation. You know, I that's that's one thing that I that I like to try to to keep, you know, if there is not not to paint everything with such a broad brush. I guess that's that's one thing that I, you know, come around to thinking differently about Harpreet: [00:49:54] Like that a lot. So how can people connect with you and where can they find you online? Joe: [00:49:59] So [00:50:00] the best way to find me online is through LinkedIn Harpreet: [00:50:03] At, of Joe: [00:50:04] Course, LinkedIn dot com slash in J W P R E Z. They can also, if you want to see my itinerary where I'm speaking, what my topics are. If you're interested, you know you need a speaker. Not that I'm going to give a shameless plug or anything, but you did ask. But anyway, the speaking topics, my portfolio, the places where I'm going to be speaking or have spoken, you can find that at Session AIs. That's the word session with AIs on the end. Session AIs Forward Slash, Jo Dash, Perez Perez and my web site Dr Jo Perez. Harpreet: [00:50:44] I'll be sure to link to all those right there in the show notes. Dr. Jo, thank you so much for taking time out of schedule to come on to the show today. Appreciate having you here! Joe: [00:50:52] Absolutely. Harp It's been my honor and pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on your program, sir. Thank you.