Mixed - Brenden Kumarasamy.mp3 Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:00:00] Great conversations always stem from great people if you meet uninteresting people and you try to have interesting conversations with them, not only will you be miserable, they'll be miserable, too. And everyone's not going to be happy. Harpreet Sahota: [00:00:40] What's up, everybody? Welcome to the artists of Data Science podcast, the only self development podcast for Data scientists. You're going to learn from and be inspired by the people, ideas and conversations that'll encourage creativity and innovation in yourself so that you can do the same for others. I also host open office hours. You can register to attend by going to bitly dot com forward, slash a d. S o h. I look forward to seeing you all there. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode. And don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a five star review. Harpreet Sahota: [00:01:35] Our guest today is passionate about helping others achieve rocket level success. He lives by the philosophy that when you care about serving others and aim to add value to people's lives, you'll be able to overcome any fear or obstacle in your path. This philosophy has led him to coaching purpose driven entrepreneurs on how to master their message and share their ideas with the world. He's coached over one hundred individuals on mastering the art of public speaking, having spoken at organizations such as Next A.I. Technovation, Montreal Up Started and front row ventures. So please help me in welcoming our guests today, a man who seeks to make an impact by helping people mastered the art of public speaking communication. The founder of Master talk Brenden Kumarasamy. Brenden, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be on the show. I really appreciate you being here, man. Harpreet Sahota: [00:02:38] Thanks for having me of Harpreet. It reminds me as if I'm on an episode of Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu or something else like, wow, that is really good. Thanks for that. Harpreet Sahota: [00:02:46] yeah, no I appreciate that. Harpreet Sahota: [00:02:47] Yeah. Tom, Bilyeu is my model. Tony Robbins always talks about having a model and model yourself after people. Tom Bilyeu is definitely that person for me. So yeah, definitely ripped off his style for sure. But hey, enough about me and let's talk about you. Let's talk about your background. What got you to where you are today. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:03:08] Yeah, absolutely. So for me, the journey begins. When I was five years old, I walked into my first French daycare and I looked at my parents and I said French, I don't know anything about French. And they looked at me and said, Well, Brenden, you live in Montreal City in Canada. And they said, hey, you know, you need to know how to learn this language. You need to study in French if you want to be successful. So I looked at her and I looked at my dad and I said, OK, so for the first fifteen years of my life, not only was they uncomfortable with the idea of presentations I had to present in a language I didn't even know. So you can imagine the stress that I had as a kid. Then after that, when I went to university, I did these things called case competitions. So think of it like professional sports, but for nerds. So other guys my age would watch college football or rugby or basketball things I never really had much interest in. I would still eat the same junk food as them. Don't get me wrong, you know, chicken wings and fries are great. But I was watching other people present and that was my life for three years. I'd watch and dissect how different universities would present and I would go to competitions across Canada mostly and the world sometimes to compete against some of the best universities in the world on presentations. So when I graduated, let's say I presented a lot, five hundred times, you know, coached dozens of people, all that stuff. Then I got a great job in consulting and I kind of I just asked myself what was next, like what can I do to make an impact on the world? What can I do to make a difference? And that's when the idea for master talk came to be, because I realized that a lot of communication, information on YouTube sucked and I saw it as an opportunity to make a difference, So here we are. Harpreet Sahota: [00:04:37] um, and that's a really interesting journey and really inspiring. Like you just were thrown into the mix of it and I was like, OK, figure this language out, figure out how to speak and how to present. What was there like a particular moment in the journey where you're like, all right, this is it. Like this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to help people master public speaking. I was there a pivotal moment or did was this just like a culmination of things happening? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:05:00] Right. So I think one good way of thinking about this is the following nonsense question that I hate. Everyone seems to ask themselves what they're passionate about. And I think that is a stupid question. And let me explain why. Because if it worked, we would all have passions. We would all be interested, obviously, if you have a passion you should be listening to. But if you don't, which is ninety five percent of cases, here's a better question. Would ask yourself, what does the world need you to do most right now and why? When you ask yourself that question, the answer is that you come up with a lot more different, essentially. So when I started, what does the world need me to do most? Make money? My parents are for minimum wage. Workers want to get out of poverty. What's the best way of doing that? Going to business school? Because that's what I was good at, wasn't good at sciences or anything else, but I was a whiz at math, so I went to business school. What does the world need me to do most? Get a job in corporate accounting? What does the world need? We do most and then get a job in technology. But then what happened Harpreet, was I was looking at the different options in my life. It's like you want to be an executive at this company. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:06:00] All that stuff and master talk fell on my lap because as I was navigating different options in my life, I remembered hearing a lot of the students that I was coaching back in my case, competition days in university. They kept asking the same thing and I never had an answer to it, which was How did you learn how to speak? I didn't have any money. I was broke, didn't even have the money for Toastmasters, which I highly recommend for people, but I even have the money for that. So I mostly was just self-taught man, like, you know, I just practiced a lot. Executives would run me through the wall because they were my coaches primarily. And it's got. Better and better over time, but I also realized after the 20th person asked me that this is probably a big problem, I should probably see what's out there and then I just sort of watch a YouTube video. Remember, at this point, Brenden is not going to be a YouTube, right. He's going to be an executive at IBM or at a big company and not do anything else. But then I started watching the videos and I was vomiting in my mouth for 12 hours straight. I was like, what is this? This is terrible. Like PhD is on this platform who literally say this. Everyone today we're going to talk about how to manage vocal tones. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:07:04] I'm like, dude, you don't even know how to manage your own vocal tones. How are you? A PhD in communication makes no sense. So I got really frustrated. So I started making videos, my mother's basement, literally in my mother's basement right in front of me. And I thought nothing of it for six months I thought was a stupid idea who's going to listen to public speaking content? But over time I started getting better on video. A lot of the students started listening, 10 subscribers, 20, 30 stories started growing. And I started to understand why. And that's when I understood what the bigger mission of this thing was. It was there are people in the world who have really important ideas. So in the context of Data scientists, there are a lot of people who know how to crunch numbers but don't know how to explain them back to people in a way that can be philosophically transformative in people's lives. So let's say you're working for the MasterCard Foundation and you're working on philanthropic problems. You find a Data insight, but you don't know how to communicate it back to people. That is a huge loss to society. So I just said, why don't I just democratize the whole thing? And that's when I started Ticketmaster a bit more seriously. Harpreet Sahota: [00:08:04] That's awesome I absolutely love that you got this concept of the P.S.Y The public speaking. Why talk to us a little bit about that? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:08:12] Yeah, of course. So obviously, I took that from Simon Said and added one layer to it. But the way that I see it, public speaking, why is is this idea that public speaking is a skill that anyone can master, but very few people do because it's the hardest skill to hold yourself accountable to or one of you an example. Let's say you are running a marathon and you're really hard working. You put in the reps and I'm lazy. You know, I don't want to get up in the morning, but if you're banging on my door at five a.m., you're like, Brenden, we're going for a run. I'm going to go on that run for two reasons. One, because Harpreets knocking at my door at five a.m., but two, because the goalpost is clear. I can visualize me and you crossing the marathon 20, 30 kilometer race, getting past it, me holding my participation ribbon and you holding the gold medal. But regardless, I see both of us crossing the finish line. I can see it. And it's very measurable. If we run 10 kilometers or miles, which wherever you want in the world over time, you do 15 kilometers, 20 kilometers, 30. And at some point when you're practicing 50, what's a 40 kilometer race? If you already ran 50, it's a joke. So in that way, running a marathon in many ways, despite its difficulty, is motivating. We see the progression. But in public speaking Harpreet, what does being a great speaker, if it mean, does it mean saying less than AIs? Does it mean being spectacular? Does it mean being on a stage and having a magician hat on or something? The answer is nobody knows because there is no answer. None of the great speakers in the world have anything in common in terms of their style. It's more in terms of how they communicate that's unique to them. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:09:49] And that is the fundamental issue because the goalpost is so vague and nobody knows what they're actually trying to be as a speaker. Most people give up. And that's why understanding the reason why you want to master communication is so important. And I'd love to share a question to help your audience think about this. It's very simple, actually. How would the world change if you were an exceptional communicator? If you are an amazing public speaker, not just like stages to ten thousand people at a conference, like small ten people, whatever, how would the world change? And if your answer is getting the next promotion at work, wrong answer, you'll be a great speaker. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:10:27] You won't be incredible. But if your answer is I have this cupcake recipe that's been passed down generation to generation and I'm scared it's going to get lost, that no one's going to hear about it, then no one's going to know about it. Then you have a strong incentive to share it with people, whether it's your work, your family, your local community. And the bigger the vision, the higher the incentive. Another example can give you if you're the CEO of a company, you better know to sell your ideas, because if you don't forget the money, your ideas will come to life. Harpreet Sahota: [00:10:56] That's awesome man, that's very powerful. So dumb question here. What's the difference between just talking and speaking? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:11:02] That's interesting. A lot of people have different perspectives on this. I'll give you mine. I think there's very little difference and I think we should treat speaking a lot more like talking. And I'll explain why. Let's say, I mean, you're grabbing a coffee or grabbing dinner with an old friend or something. You're not trying to get in and get out of that conversation as quickly as possible. I like the idea of this podcast. Is it let me just have this conversation really quickly and go to the next one. Like no particular time or answering questions. We're having a conversation. Right. But in. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:11:32] Presentations Harpreet, that's completely different, right, because my goal in a presentation, or most of us is how do I get in this and get out of it as quickly as possible? Because we don't see it as a conversation. We don't see it as a coffee chat. We see it as a burden. We see it as a chore or we see it as a responsibility. So naturally, we don't see it at all, like talking or having that deep conversation in the morning with our loved ones or having a lunch with somebody that we enjoy speaking to. And if we compare public speaking to that old conversation with an old friend, a coffee chat with somebody we love, our piece will start to slow down. We'll start to enjoy the moment a bit more and we'll start to speak at the right way. Harpreet Sahota: [00:12:16] So you mentioned presenting and getting people interested in what it is that you're presenting. How do we present information in a way that will get our audience excited and get them excited to hear us share our ideas with them and with the world? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:12:33] Here's the secret Harpreet. The secret is there is no secret in the sense that if you think you're able to engage your audience from the first time you present something, you're wrong. Let me explain why. When you learn a new skill, right. Let's say piano's a simple one for people. You have two options. Unless you're Mozart option A, you know, you're trying to 50 different songs you try to figure out. And that works once again if you're Mozart or option B, do the same song 50 times. And if you do it 50 times, what happens is you start to gain confidence and better you can show off to your friends. They go, wow, Harpreet bad, really good at this piano thing, even if you only know one song, but it gives you the confidence to say, hey friend, if I press Brender with this one song, I could probably do another 10 that we literally apply for any skill podcasting. Sure. The first episode you probably did wasn't so great. The first podcast I was a guest on probably not great. Why is The Stranger asking me questions? This is freaky, right? But then after some time passes, you go, hey, wait a minute. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:13:33] This is this is not that hard. But here's the punch line, Harpreet. We don't apply that in public speaking. It's Wednesday. Our client, our boss, our teacher says, hey, dude, I need a presentation for Friday. And you're just there like looks like I'm not talking to my family for two days. You spend ten, fifteen hours, you get the presentation together. It's Friday. You present with all the hard work, with all of the effort, then you crumble up the presentation, put it in the garbage and move on to the next one as the best speakers in the world do the same thing hundreds of times. So how do you get your audience back to a question? You do it by doing the same thing over and over and over again, because if you're doing different presentations, you're only asking yourself one question. And that one question is what content should I put in this thing? But if you do the same presentation fifteen times, you're not asking yourself that question anymore because you know the content. You're asking yourself something very different, like what emotions have I conveying here? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:14:37] How am I coming off of this presentation? Does Harpreet and his audience actually understand what I'm saying or am I speaking too fast? Am I too confusing? How do I explain it in something in a way that's a lot more easier to digest and that's the secret to engagement. Harpreet Sahota: [00:14:53] What's up artists, I would love to hear from you. Feel free to send me an email to the artists of Data Science at Gmail dot com. Let me know what you love about the show. Let me know what you don't love about the show and let me know what you would like to see in the future. I absolutely would love to hear from you. I've also got open office hours that I will be hosting and you can register like going to Bitly dot com forward, slash a d s o h. I look forward to hearing from you all and look forward to seeing you in the office hours. Let's get back to the episode. Harpreet Sahota: [00:15:41] So my next question was going to be how do the best speakers in the world design presentations for maximum effect? So with the answer to that be through repetition, through do the same presentation over, and if it is doing the same presentation over, do literally the exact same word for word presentation over. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:16:00] Absolutely. But I'm happy to add more layers of that. So to give myself as an example here, I'll use other speakers as well. I've presented the same keynote three hundred and fifty times, not three times, but thirty times over three hundred times. So the first time I presented it wasn't really good. But now I presented this today actually had a couple of hours ago, everyone sitting there and it's like, wow, this is the best kid I ever saw in my life. But to me it's like the same again and again. I'll give you the. Best example I could possibly give Gary Vaynerchuk is someone a very relatable name to people in the space. Let me break down his methodology for people that he's been doing for 13 years now. Hey, guys. Soviet Union. Yeah, Belarus came to the US. You guys got any questions for me? He gets paid one hundred twenty five thousand dollars to do that. Am I saying Gary is a bad speaker? No, far from it. He knows his story so much that it's perfect. So with Tony Robbins. I say this is a joke. Let's say you go to what his seminars and he comes up to and he goes, hey, you know what, Harpreet? I've be doing this motivation for thirty five years. Let's try something different. I want to talk about Porcupine's for three days, and you're sitting there like, no, Tony, I spent a thousand bucks to be here. We are not talking about Porcupine's. We're going to talk about motivation and mindset. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:17:20] And that's the point. You need to be able to present the same thing over and over again. But let's add a bit more sauce to that. Now that we know that, how do we practice differently? OK, I'll give you some inside secrets that I do. One of the things that I like to do even today is whenever I present a new keynote, I send it to twenty five people. But I don't ask them for feedback because that's dumb, because if you just say, can you give me some feedback and go as good as. But you don't get anything from what I say is give me timestamped feedback. What does that mean. It means the following. Much like sports athletes when they look at their own tapes or dance competitions. Hey, Branden, go to six minute 13. Yeah. Why are you sad here when you're saying something very emotionally beautiful opposite, hey Brenden go to eight minitue forty three? Why do you look happy when you're talking about your grandfather's accident? I'm just saying as an example, nothing happened, right. That's the point. Right. But if twenty five people are meticulously breaking your presentation. The second version of that presentation is going to be a bit better, right? So those are a couple of things that you want to do. And then the last thing to bring this presentation to the next level is do not think about your audience. It's a waste of time. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:18:29] Talk to them. Most people intellectualize their audience. They don't actually speak to them. And I'll give you the best example in my industry, every speech coach, literally, their presentations start like this. Did you know that after death, public speaking fear, otherwise known as Glassell Phobia, is rampaging society of cartooning a bit here. But you get the idea. They talk about the statistics, the fear, the struggle. But if you talk to your audience and just ask yourself the simple question, what are you trying to achieve here? You're trying to help them take a first step. You're trying to get the introverted data scientist to say, hey, you have an idea to share. Do you think talking about death is going to help us get there? No, it is not going to help us get there. And that's the point that I'm making. Harpreet Sahota: [00:19:18] So talking about mindset and about public speaking being this scary thing, how can we change our mindset from perceiving public speaking as something that is just super scary? Can't do it. It's unmanageable to something that we can confidently approach with, with a set of just principles and steps like Data scientist. We love our principles. We love our step by step approach to things. How can we do that of public speaking? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:19:45] Absolutely. So let me give you the easy step by step. You think I might say drink a glass of water or have a good luck charm or breathe? That's all stupid advice. And the reason is because it's addressing the symptom and not the core issue. So let's go through the core issue. Why are we all scared of public speaking? I've been on podcasts, New Zealand, Japan, Europe, across the globe, and it doesn't matter where you're from, you seem to all have the same fear that I did, but we don't know why. So let me explain that. Let's answer the following question. Where do we give most repressive nations? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:20:23] The answer is school doesn't matter if you're a college dropout, high school dropout or a PhD. Most of the presentations you've given are in high school. We're sitting there together in a classroom. Teacher comes up to us and three things happen. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:20:37] One. We never choose the topic, and if we do choose the topic, they're not passionate about two. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:20:45] Students don't care, not because they don't care about us, we're great people, we're also data scientists, we're great community of folks are helping people out. This is good stuff, but they're not paying attention to us because they're worried about their own presentation. So when you're standing up there and you're like, why isn't anyone paying attention to me? Is it because I think it's because I suck is because I'm not worthy. Not at all. Because I'm worried about my own presentation and not paying attention to you. And number three, the teacher, very well educated, very well intentioned. I've had the pleasure of being around amazing teachers, but also very stressed for the presentation in two classes. They can't sit you down Harpreet and go, Hey, man, you want to talk about your presentation for ten minutes? Let's go through the slide by slide. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:21:27] So let's recap topics you're never passionate about to students do want to hear you to teachers who are too stressed to coach you and this behavior gets perpetuated and every subject. Math, science, arts, English, French languages, over and over and over again, we're taught to believe that public speaking is a chore. Public speaking is a responsibility and obligation. If you're at school, it's tied to a grade. If you're at work, it's tied to a project. And at any point, if you mess up, you will get punished, whether it's through a lower grade or whether it's that promotion that just slips away. And that is the issue. Our fear of public speaking isn't our fault. It is the system in which we grew up learning it. And that is the fundamental issue. But if we realize that public speaking is about sharing the message, sharing an idea, making a difference, like this very conversation that we're having, then the way that we perceive public speaking will change. And our fear will in most part dissipate like magic. And that's the key, right, is understand that the fear is not your fault, but rather the fault of the system. One last analogy. I'll give Julia a 16 year old. She loves theater and she loves public speaking. Most of us think it's because she's extroverted. That's not true. How does that make any sense? There's obviously introverted people who do theater. The difference is because Julia perceives public speaking differently, she goes, what do you mean, Brenden? Public speaking, is that the scary thing? I'm here to perform. I'm here to entertain. I'm here to share a message. I'm here to add value. And if we all perceived public speaking that way, I don't understand why anyone would be scared of. Harpreet Sahota: [00:23:18] That's really, really insightful. Really enjoyed hearing that. So it's just a matter of viewing public speaking, not as this is just a story we tell ourselves in our head. Right. It's like, well, I don't have to be scared of this thing. It's not really as bad as everybody else makes it out to be. I had the choice of not being afraid of this thing so much. I just man up and go for it. Right, right. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:23:40] And just to riff on that, because I love that little bit of scripture in the sense of like one easy way you can get out of the discomfort. What I call the random word exercise is what you do is if you present something that you have no knowledge and no expertize in and you do the harder thing when you go back to a Data science project that you're an expert in, that pretty much only you and the company knows about what's easier for you to do that. So let's demonstrate that really quick for people. Give me a random word. Harpreet Sahota: [00:24:08] How about squad. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:24:10] Squad, interesting This is going to be funny. So I have to do is to make a presentation out of it. You know, a lot of people, they hang out in groups. A lot of people like to hang out in general. They got hang out, meet up groups. Some people even have more formal groups. We call them clubs. But with me, how I like to role I like to role as my squad, the data scientist on the left, the entrepreneur on the right, the baker, who for some reason is there, the software engineer who's in the back. And we're all rolled it up. And a squad squads aren't like any other group. They're a form of camaraderie. That's not exactly like being buddies with someone, but not either like being in a gang either. It's interesting in between where you have this brothership or sister ship and you're advancing towards a specific goal, it's just that goal probably is an educational but still life fulfilling anyways. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:25:05] And that's why today's presentation, I'm going to walk you through the history of squads and how you can start your own. So those are those completely random off the cars. And I was very difficult also. I love that you asked me that. But the point that I'm driving for all you Data scientists out there is I'm asking for five minutes of your time, five minutes every day, five words, one minute each light bulb, if I don't like sometimes not all the time. Xebra, you know, light bulb do five minutes every day. And even if you're in a public setting all day and you want to present out loud, my ass to you is at least think about it. So so when you see a building, don't just look at it and say, oh, cool building. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:25:43] Say this Brendon guy on his podcast said, think about it. So if I were to give a presentation on buildings, what would it sound like? And over time, if you haven't noticed, for those who are listening, you're old data scientist. You know how to do math. Five days a day, three hours. Sixty five days. If you do this every day for a year, you'll have done the exercise eight hundred times, which means you've been through words like hippo zebra Jagwar. So when you go to give a Data science presentation that, you know, it becomes a joke. Harpreet Sahota: [00:26:11] That was absolutely phenomenal.That really was right off the top of this dome. Everybody just does really good man. So do you have a favorite random word generator that we can go to or? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:26:23] I have to steal that. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:26:24] That's super smart. I never thought of that. I try and make it as simple as possible for people, but that is definitely a way to really make things difficult. That's something probably I should start doing. But honestly, to make things simple, Harpreet. But I appreciate the question. But none the less. I'll About that on the side is keep it simple for yourself to say, like Teddy, like give yourself easy words, you're some easy words, coffee, super easy because everybody loves coffee. Most of us do. Home parents, family, talk about your family, things like that, and then start to knock up the difficulty and knocking up the difficult demands. Have someone else pick the word for you intentionally. Picardo words, word generators. Love that and then your confidence will skyrocket really quickly. Harpreet Sahota: [00:27:05] Definitely going to be adding this to my daily practice. I really like that idea and just hearing it flow so naturally right off the top. And it's really inspiring to hear. And I'm wondering, like there's no written word prior to that, how important is writing when preparing for speaking? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:27:22] So there's different layers to that. If you're making a video, which I don't think is most people scripting is essential for the most part, unless you're like a vlogger because it allows you to structure your thoughts. In my videos, everything is thought out and written out in advance because you don't have access to me. So let's say you get to talk to me now. So if you have any clarifications, you can ask. But obviously I'm happy to answer. But the issue with video, Harpreet, is I can't talk back like you can't like to say, hey, Brenden, but it's a video. So I need to make sure it's so clear that you don't need to ask me a question. Right. But in a regular life, what I'd recommend is for one presentation. This is what I call the repeatable presentation. So how you fix all of these fear issues and the best way to practice is you pick one presentation that you're really passionate about that solves a problem for somebody else, more specifically that you do hundreds of times. So everyone on this call is pretty much the same presentation, but in different layers. When you all did hackathon together at university, just pick your favorite project and present on that. What is the project you're the most proud of that made an impact? And people and what were the key outcomes, takeaways and Data Data that you gathered and make a presentation out of that and whether or not you should write it? I think it's useful to write it at the beginning, but not to memorize it. Writing it is just to structure. I don't write my speeches anymore. Like whenever I have a new keynote videos, I still script, but keynotes, like a conversation like this or something, I don't script anymore, but I'd recommend that for the first time for sure. Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:53] So talk to us about the importance of storytelling and how can we then become better storytellers. You mentioned we got this random word exercise. I think that's an excellent way to become a storyteller. But if we have a project that we need to present, I know Data scientist and a lot of my mentees will just memorize every step they took and just regurgitate that, which probably isn't the best way to engage your audience. Right. So so talk to us about the importance of storytelling. How can we become better storytellers? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:29:23] I'll do something a bit risky here, so I'll compare it to the industry. Learning how to speak, write learning storytelling in public speaking is like taking an unstructured data set and data science and trying to figure something out with a look of the data. Does it mean anything? How are you supposed to make something clean out of it if something was structured like an Excel spreadsheet? I think the same analogy applies here in public speaking and the sense that if you're trying to tell a great story, but your foundational elements of public speaking isn't good in the same way that if you don't understand Tableau and all the different tools that you need to use to restructure that Data, you'll go nowhere. Right. I'll give you an example. One day this happened to me. And then in that situation, this is the story that happened and I felt this way. So notice if your foundational elements of public figure are good, the story that you're going to tell is going to run floor. I know a lot of my colleagues in the industry who I very much respect, like Donald Millerd and Nancy Doherty, put storytelling a lot. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:30:22] I don't recommend it for beginners. I think where you want to start first is getting that presentation together, repeating it a lot, getting confidence. You're doing the random word exercise, and then over time, you'll start to gain a lot more confidence as speaker. And then what you want to do is in that presentation you gave fifty times, then start adding stories a bit. Like, sprinkle them on, it's like seasoning right on a nice rib eye, steak or something, I'm sorry for the vegetarians out there know seasoning on your favorite vegetable or something, it's the same thing but, Right. And then after you can start to think about storytelling, I'm a framework for that. But but anyways, the idea is to try to keep it short as you want to focus on the details, you want to focus on the emotions and you want to focus on how you're impacting the audience that are speaking to. So in many ways, storytelling is showing the audience that you understand them as much as they do. But once again, super advanced. I would start with foundation and move your way up. Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:15] So speaking of the audience, how can we identify personas in our audience through storytelling? And maybe are there a couple of archetypes that we should watch out for? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:31:29] Absolutely. And of course, great question. So the way that I said is it's not about thinking about your audience intellectually, it's about talking to them. So the way that I've built my personas wasn't anything like super. Oh, you need to follow this framework. No, no, no. I started Master talk. That was a stupid idea. I didn't know who I was helping. I don't know what I was doing. And then I started coaching university students. They became a persona. Then I got invited to a leadership programs for young teenage girls. They became a persona, et cetera, et cetera. But the way that I developed this persona is by talking to them in the context of the girls. 30 minutes before I started, I just sat next to one of them. So I was going, I'm Brenden. They just said, Oh, hey, I'm Julia or whatever. But it's more effective after the keynote, obviously. But, you know, talk to them and just say, like, what are you struggling with? Communication. They would just talk to, you know, we're eating cantaloupes or something. And then over time, what happens is I start to understand their psychology. Most speakers miss this. They go, oh, Brenden's got this face. He has this texture. This is how old he is. But they don't focus on the psychographics. So, for example, if I did this back to you, what do Data scientists care about? They care about crunching Data they care about finding cool insights that nobody else found. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:32:43] They care about creating insights for the company that no one else has ever found solving interesting problems. That's what gets people excited. Right. If you're working with the structured data set that you can solve for in three minutes, you're satisfying. But there's nothing like any data scientist can do that, right? It's not hard, but if you're solving a problem that's really challenging and you're able to succeed in it, then you see a lot of value in that. So the way that I would communicate that as a speaker is I would say finding the solution isn't enough, because if you want everyone to know about it, if you want to stand out in your company, if you want to stand out in general, you need to be able to tell a story with that data. And by story, I don't mean storytelling going in all this persona's stuff. I mean structuring your ideas in a way that makes sense to a fifth grader who doesn't understand Data science, because I can talk on Data science, but I don't understand the text stuck in the same way you do. So your job is to communicate it in a way that I get what you're doing right, which is the key outcomes. So that's my advice. Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:44] That's awesome. Advice brings me to my next question, speaking about understanding the psychology of certain groups. And as a consultant yourself, you've probably had the opportunity to present in front of executives a lot, right? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:33:56] Absolutely. Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:57] Do you have tips for Data scientists who are in a room full of executives? Somehow they managed to find themselves with the C suite and now they need to communicate their ideas. Do you have any tips on how we can approach that scenario to be more effective? Harpreet Sahota: [00:34:10] Great question. I love the follow up. I think the way that you want to think about this is actually has nothing to do with the presentation. The issue, because I coach a lot of these people in my programs is not that they're afraid of public speaking. There are some fears for sure what the sea level that's accentuated like a lot. Right. The issue know how to fix it is they're not humanizing the people. So we see C-level executives as like this. They're not human. They're like very this Ivy Tower, we can't really see them. So what you want to do is you want to start bringing them back down. So how do you do that? You get coffees with them. I'll give you the best example with me. So when I was 19 or 20, I wanted to work at one of these consulting firms, McKinsey, BCG, IBM, all these companies. That's what I did, is I started reaching out to senior executives, so I started meeting them when I was twenty. So you can imagine how scared I was. I was in an oversize suit. Right, that I got from Sears for this known as a bankrupt company. Now, it was a suit I got for prom if I'm being honest. So I'm sitting there and one of the senior leaders decided to meet me. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:35:12] For some reason, I'm like panicking. My heart's racing, my heart's beat. I'm like, I'm going to die. Like, I'm going to ruin this meeting. I'll never get a job here ever. And then it comes up and he goes, Hey, your Brenden, right? I go, Yeah. He goes, Hey, David, I'm using a different name. David, it's nice to meet you. You're not the first question I ask you. How was your summer going? These people are human, right? He proceeded an hour to talk about himself and he said, hey Brenden, you're really interesting guy. Let me recommend to the company. That's what I learned. Right. Is this idea of if you're a Data scientist right now and you're stuck in a room with these levels executives, and I'm using the word stuck on purpose because even if I don't think you're stuck, you think you are. So my advice is sit them all down, get a virtual coffee. What do you care about what are your hobbies? I'd love to get to know you a bit more. I'd love to know what your role is in the company and just ask some cool questions. How are you going about covid? What's going on? And then you have a cool informal conversation. You go, wait a minute, David's not that big of a deal. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:36:06] Yeah, Julia is the CEO of the company. But I mean, she likes golf as much as I do. She likes it all these programing languages and then the fear dissipates. That's why I'm very confident when I speak to senior level executives when I'm twenty four, not because I've practiced years. I mean, that is true. But that's not the main reason because I humanize them. So when you humanize them, it's not like, oh, Miss Greenwood, it's great to see you today. It's like, hey Jules, how's it going? How's your tower, your kids doing? I'm really excited for this. Yeah, I know. I went over the project update yesterday at a very informal right. And then the stress goes down and their confidence goes up and then we see ourselves more as a value add. But the thing I want to punch here and really bring home is if you're in that room, don't waste it, because being a technical lead is much harder than being a business lead or being a functional lead, which means if you already have the technical skills, it's much easier for you to do the MBA and get the functional than do the reverse. So you're in a position of strength. Do not lose it. Harpreet Sahota: [00:37:06] Excellent advice. I appreciate you sharing that question. That's kind of along the same same line, I guess, is networking events. Do you have any tips for our audience on how to make the most of networking events and what proper etiquette is when it comes to networking, whether it's in person or online? I know Data scientists can be sometimes not all the guys can be a bit awkward. And people people tell me at conferences with the resume and hand follow me around everywhere I go. So obviously that's not proper etiquette. Right. So let's let's hear some tips from Branden on how he can make the most of these events. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:37:42] Right, I'm going to give you a very unconventional answer, because the first line of thinking in my head that I feel like voicing is screw etiquette. Let me explain why people don't know how to network because they don't know what it actually is for. Right. That's why they're coming up to you at the CVS. But Harpreet because they don't know what networking is for. They think it's like this transactional thing where it's like Harpreet, it's going to give me a job, just let people know Harpreet is not paying me to be on this thing. And that's what networking means, is it means adding value to people solving a problem. Right. Just helping people out. And it always comes back in return. Right. So the point that I'm driving is here's my go to great conversations. Always stem from great people. If you meet uninteresting people and you try to have interesting conversations with them, not only will you be miserable, they'll be miserable, too. And everyone's not going to be happy. So my advice is ask yourself what you like. What do you like to talk about? What do you find interesting? Second thing, what are your goals in networking? What are you trying to achieve? And then thirdly, who can you meet that meets your same value system? So for me, I have a sad Abberline now because of just the nature of my life and I'm always meeting people and all that stuff. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:38:51] I do not meet people anymore who aren't purpose driven like your very purpose driven guy. I don't care if you have tattoos. I don't care if you're a chef. I don't care if you're a baker. I don't care which country you live in. I know I'm going to like you because we have the same value system. We're both purpose driven. People are selfish. I have time for anymore, right? I could just pick the right people. I would have made. So for you another example to think about this. Let's see. Like collecting pets. Do you have this weird obsession? You don't tell anybody you like collecting pets and obviously not your friends like collecting pets. My advice to you, it's not to have networking etiquette and not to bring your civvies. This is weird, but rather spend a little money. You got a lot of money or Data Sipes, you're doing well for yourself. Spend a little money. Five, six hundred bucks. Fly out to the biggest pen collecting conference. I guarantee you there is somebody there that you will like and enjoy their company and be friends for life with. And that's what I do. I spend upwards of ten thousand dollars a year of my personal capital just to fly out to events just to be people like me. And I'm always inspired by the talent, but the amazing people there. So that's my recommendation. Harpreet Sahota: [00:39:55] I absolutely love them and some great advice. So talking about more tips and strategies, you shared such good insights, such good advice. You've got one already with the random word exercise. But what else can we do in our daily lives that we can implement pretty easily to make us better communicators like they always talk about picture of the audience in their underwear like that? That obviously doesn't work, does it? Right. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:40:19] So you don't need me to tell you that doesn't work. You already know you're smart enough to figure that one out. But I think it is is another easy thing you could do. Obviously, there's the repeatable presentation. I want you all to do the same thing one hundred times that's done. Red team or the other easy thing you could do is to look at your cup of coffee differently. What do I mean by that? So I was on a podcast recently and the guy his name is Michel. Really good guy. He explained this really well, and I took that from him, so I'm quoting him now is he said, Ever since I saw your video about pace. So pace is what how fast you speak so fast, fast, fast, slowly, intentionally. He liked my analogy between how a presentation should be like a conversation with coffee is what he does is whenever he looks at his cup of coffee, he thinks about it. Like everything he does in his life is like that coffee conversation when a reason, a presentation. He has a cup of coffee next to him. So it's a constant mental reminder that what he's doing is a coffee conversation, not a presentation. So that's a good mental trick that you can do on a daily basis where you have a cup of coffee next to you whenever you present. So whenever you look at it, you go, oh, this is not a presentation. I should probably slow down. Harpreet Sahota: [00:41:28] I like that a lot. So talk to us about, well, you've got a lot of experience working with entrepreneurs and high level executives, and you had a good amount of trajectory yourself. So do you have any tips for our audience on how we can grow in our careers and move out of individual contributor roles and into more leadership roles? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:41:52] I love the career related question. That's awesome. The way that you grow people is think like a CEO on day one. Right? This is the advice somebody gave me when I was 90 and a partner at McKinsey for those companies, the hardest consulting firm in the world to get into. And I was talking one of the partners there when I was 19 or 20. I was a part of the competition I did with them and I asked them what the best piece of advice is. And he said, think like a VP, think like a vice president. So if you're starting day one, you're an intern and Data science, you just start as an entry level job. But you think you're a vice president. How would your decisions change? Well, now you're not just crunching numbers anymore. You're forced to understand why am I doing this? Why is this work important? And also, you have to get more involved with sales. You have to get more involved. And not just the Data that you're working on, but how you're communicating that service in a way that somebody who doesn't understand Data science wants to buy it anyways. That's what it means to think like a vice president. So my advice, and this is also good advice on whether or not your company is a good one or not, because a lot of people ask me, like, is this a good company to work at? And I say, it's not about brand, it's about the following. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:43:00] When you started your first day message, five vice presidents in your department and see how many people are want to get a coffee with you? The answer is zero. Run away from that company. Go somewhere else because they don't give a shit about you being honest. I'm looking at IBM and this is true with most companies that work to the bone. A lot of those vice presidents do meet you very quickly. I met a lot of those VPs when I started and I just started asking them, how do you prioritize your time? How do you think how do you react going back to understanding the psychology? How do you spend your time? How do you manage life, work and all that stuff? And then I would mimic the way they communicate, the way that they think, the way that they prioritize until they become that. That's why I'm on the fast track to promotions, because I present and communicate like somebody who is a vice president, even if I'm nowhere near a vice president. But all the VPs respect me. Right. And that's the key. You want to start to get a frame of mind. If you start thinking like your manager, you'll be your manager. But if you start thinking like the CTO, you'll be the CTO. That's my number one piece of advice. Harpreet Sahota: [00:43:58] Excellent advice, man. Absolutely love that. Switching gears here a little bit, I want to talk to you about the work that you're doing with Charity Water. So what is Charity Water and how did you get involved with that organization? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:44:10] Very kind that you brought that up. I really appreciate the charity water as an organization. I work with that whose goal is to help the world solve the water crisis. But from the public speaking communications perspective, the reason why I'm a big fan of Scott Harrison is the CEO of the organization, is he is probably the best storyteller in the world. And I don't mean that with any hedge. I say that because he is one of the few people who does what I appreciate, which is not leaving public speaking the theoretical world where no one can like, look, that's what the word exercise attempts to. You don't just live it great. Do it tomorrow. And that he applies a lot of that lessons, a lot of those learnings into his own organization to today that he communicates. And there's this great book that I recommend people check out. It's called "Thirst" by Scott Harrison. It's the best book I've read in my life, not only from a public speaking perspective, but just the way and how he thinks about messaging. So this is a guy who used to be a nightclub promoter, right. He was selling bottles in New York City, is one of the top nightclub promoters in the city selling fifty dollars of champagne for five hundred. And he used a lot of that market savvy this into the way that he communicates philanthropic initiatives and that's how he's able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for what he's done. So I encourage you all to check out that book. I think it's a fantastic read. Harpreet Sahota: [00:45:25] And what's the impact that you hope to have through your work and affiliation with this organization? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:45:31] Right. And I'm happy to talk about that as well. So the way that I think about this. Right, because a lot of us, the issue in society is where keyboard warriors and we get lost into this. Think about climate change. How. Do you solve for that right, if you buy like plastic, you suddenly become a hypocrite and you're kind of just like, how do I do this? You kind of just stuck in this weird middle zone. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:45:51] So the question I've always asked myself, it's very different for most people is not what's probably the most passionate to solve, but rather what is the world's easiest problem to solve. Because if we all thought about that question, we would all have the same answer. Right. You might say it's cancer research. I might say it's education and we'll fight forever and we won't go anywhere. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:46:14] But I've asked you, what is the world's easiest problem to solve than the frameworks that we'll use? We'll come to the same conclusion and we'll work together as a team to solve that problem. So here's my framework for life. People very simple, solve two problems in your life. One that you're uniquely positioned to solve, not passionate, uniquely positioned to solve. And it turns out that obviously what you're passionate about leads to that, but that's the better way of articulating that. So for me, those 10 things I could have done Harpreet I was one of the best speakers in the country. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:46:46] I could have done like, you know, motivational speaking, could have been a Tony Robbins guy, could have been a career coach, could have been a professional gamer, could have been an executive at a company. But there is one thing that I did a thousand times better than anyone else in the world, in my opinion, and that is a YouTube channel on public speaking specifically and nothing else. So that was the thing that I really focused on. So I know in my lifetime, as one Brendin, as one human being with the amazing team that I have supporting me, I can solve publicity for the world, I'm confident. But if everyone thought that way, we would solve a lot more problems. Right. The second problem that I think people should be solving is what I call the world's easiest problem, because if we don't solve the world's easiest problem, all the smart ones will work on less problems together. I'll give an example of how people think about this. Look at the 17 stages, the UN Sustainable Development Goals. And don't ask yourself what you like. Ask yourself what's easiest. And I believe that water is the easiest of the 17 because if you solve for water, women will have to work forty eight hours of four to eight hours anymore to get the water and they'll reinvest that time into the communities, to getting educated, into getting a job, creating more income for their families. And they'll get themselves out of poverty. Right. And then they'll get educated, all that stuff. But if you don't solve for water first, you can solve for anything else. And I don't think there's an easier problem to solve than water. So that's why I focus on the water crisis, not because of the story, not because of that, but because Scott just spits numbers like he's solved almost two percent of the whole problem, two percent of the whole problem as one organization. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:48:23] That's a mind boggling. How is the nonprofit able to achieve that? So my responsibility as someone who is thoughtful, as someone who is a critical thinker, as someone who is challenge is the social norm, is to help them achieve that. Harpreet Sahota: [00:48:35] Absolutely. And definitely be checking that out as well. Thank you so much for sharing that. So last formal question here before we jump into a quick lightning round, and that is what's the one thing you want people to learn from your story? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:48:50] Love that. Be insane or be the same. It's my favorite quote of all time. If you want to be like everyone else, totally fine. What are we. Fifty five minutes. This conversation, if you're still listening to this right, you probably want to do something different with your life. You probably want to get better. You probably want to do better and do great things. And my advice is you need to learn the art of becoming more insane. Don't you find it all odd that as a twenty two year old, I started a YouTube channel, my mother's basement, not on comedy or blogs or pranks like most people age, but on communication and public speaking. Then I went on to coach C-level executives at twenty three and I have a very lucrative practice. But at the same time I'm having this very conversation with you in my mother's basement while sitting on a mattress. And I don't own a car and I'm not planning on moving out of my mother's basement for those six years. So how do any of those decisions make any sense to anybody? Brenden, you're a grown man. What are you doing with your life? You should have a girlfriend. You should have a house. And that's the point. All of the decisions I made of my life only makes sense to the only person that matters, which is you when you get to that point in your life where you just make every decision optimized exactly the way you want it to be in the way that you say yes to podcast, in the way that you make videos on. Well, despite making a great buddy at IBM and doing all this weird stuff while sitting on a mattress, then you start to live for yourself and then you develop a new perspective in the world. And it's that unique perspective in the world, that unique belief system that nobody else has because nobody else is you that listens to the amazing insights and absolutely love it. Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:33] Absolutely love that. One hundred percent agree with having that unique character, that unique mindset that really helps separate you. From everybody else, and it comes from, like you said, don't be afraid to be insane wise beyond your years, my friend, great advice. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:50:50] I try to be. Harpreet Sahota: [00:50:52] So let's jump into a real quick lightning round here. If you could meet any historical figure, who would it be and what would you ask them? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:51:01] Right. So it's a very simple I'll categorize Scott Harrison for the sake of this conversation historical figure. And I definitely plan on meeting him soon. And I would ask him is how he manages his relationship with his wife? I don't know how he does it. He travels a lot to Ethiopia and all that stuff. What are some of the qualities that she has to try to understand? Because it's the whole in my game currently, so I'd like to learn more there. Harpreet Sahota: [00:51:20] What do you believe that other people think is crazy? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:51:25] The Peter Thiel question. I like the very good. I have 30 answers to that question. I'll give you PR one to make sure I don't ruin my public image here. But I would say that the fear of public speaking is because most people are scared but don't know why most people are scared. Think it's their fault. It's not true. It's not their fault. It's the system's fall more personal. Oh, yes. I think leaving your house early in life, assuming you don't have a dysfunctional family, is a stupid decision. Most of us have four hundred dollars in savings. I don't know why we're not just all saving our money up together, living an extra couple of years and then all becoming wealthy and happy. I don't know why people do that, but that's another thought. Harpreet Sahota: [00:52:05] If you could have a billboard put up anywhere. What would you put on it? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:52:09] I don't know where the billboard would be, but it would probably be insane. It'd be the same for sure. Harpreet Sahota: [00:52:13] So what do you wish you had known when you first started on this journey that you're on? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:52:20] " I wish I read "with zero to one when I was 15, but I don't think it was out back then, but which is another great book. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:52:25] But I think the big mistake I made was I didn't listen to podcasts early in life, so I started getting plugged into podcasts when I was 18. If I'd done that at 15 or 14, I'd be way smarter today. That's a big mistake I made. And the reason is because obviously it's not a huge mistake, but the reason is because the benefit of podcasts, that's what I love about these conversations. That is, you don't have to read books about people anymore. You can dove into their life for an hour. And if they spit out garbage, like if they don't say anything relevant, you can just say bye. I want to listen to this person anymore. And if this person is adding value to an hour, then you'll buy their book, then you'll watch their videos, then you'll follow up with them. And I love it because it's an equalizer. You don't have to waste 10 hours reading about people's life. You could just watch ten different podcasts jump into people's life and pick the people that you like and just go deep on that. So I hope I'm one of those people. Harpreet Sahota: [00:53:13] Awesome idea thats a great tip as well. That that's how I pick my reading material, is if I hear about a book or hear somebody recommend it first, see if I can find that author and a podcast, see what they're about, maybe watch a YouTube where they're talking about the concepts in their book. And then if it resonates with me, let's invest in the book itself. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:53:32] Absolutely. Harpreet Sahota: [00:53:33] I definitely agree with that. So what is something that you are curious about right now? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:53:40] Oh, lots of I'm a nutcase, but I listen to three hours of podcasts a day on top of guessing on many of them every day. But I think the idea is just I'm always curious about how to expand my impact and influence of the world as much as possible before I die. So I'm always thinking about how to optimize my time, how to think about my time differently. And I'm always, I would say, the biggest, I guess, because I know I'm going to take some pictures, but a lot of things. But say the one thing, if I were to pick one and pinpoint is a perspective that adds value to my life that I wasn't aware of before. That's probably a good way of summarizing it. So Peter Thiel is a great example of that. He taught me that the best way to make a difference in the world is to be controversial. At the more controversial you are, the more unique your insights will become, the more impact you'll make, because nobody else is going to come up with the. Scott Harrison taught me that you're right, ninety nine point nine percent of nonprofits are garbage, but not mine. And I'll prove it to you. Right. So he proved me wrong that this nonprofit is efficient. Most of them aren't don't like it. Most of them. You prove me wrong. It's the people I admire taught me something, a new perspective that I can get from nobody else. So that's what I'm always I'm always searching for new perspectives and having trouble finding new ones. But I try my best. Harpreet Sahota: [00:54:51] So what is something that you have failed at and what did you learn from it? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:54:55] A bunch of stuff. Jesus, that I think one of them is. So I had this stupid idea when I started master talk to email university professors. So I thought my initial thinking was, look, students need communication skills. If I just send my videos to university professors, they'll reply, saying, your videos are great, let me show this to my university students for the rest of time. Did it happen the way I expected? I got a bunch of hate. Email from PhD is tenured professors feel like you're too young. People call me stupid. They're like, this is stupid information. You're like, I was like, whoa. Like college is I was I thought every Canadian was nice, I guess was proven wrong. Is there some old professors who aren't very nice? So that was a slap in the face. But the issue is I wasted like six months of my life sending emails or sending five hundred miles a day. So that wasn't too fun. There was a lot of sloppy. The face, but what that taught me to lessen its focus on the people who want to hear from you, so I had the idea when covid hit just on podcasts because they just said, well, I usually don't do shows. But I said, hey, wait a minute, what did the podcast person want to have me on? Because I have a YouTube channel, but also they're a podcast host and they, like, understand the value of communication. And that worked out really well for me. I should have started with that. That would have saved me six months of my life. But yeah, that's what they it. Harpreet Sahota: [00:56:13] So what's the number one book, fiction, nonfiction or one of each that you would recommend our audience read. And what was your most impactful takeaway from it? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:56:23] Thirst, by Scott Harrison. The learning is most problems can be solved in our lifetimes, but this one can. So let's solve the water crisis. I think we can get it done. And he proved it through a number of statistics. So maybe hopeful about solving problems and getting something done, because to be frank with people and this is why they don't talk about a lot on shows, is if I was born 30 years ago, I would have just become an executive of a company, you know, I would have been able to be my own media company. I would have had the cost of doing this. And if it wasn't for Scott and his work, I would have thought solving problems was a waste of time. You know, most problems seem very daunting and exhausting. It's like, man politics. Look at this. Look at all this negativity. And he gave me that ray of light that made me think differently and say, hey, wait a minute, what can I actually solve here? And now I'm a lot more confident, a lot more optimistic about life than I used to be. Harpreet Sahota: [00:57:12] Yeah, but I'm definitely going to check that book out. You've definitely seen me. I know, man. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:57:16] I try to do my best. Harpreet Sahota: [00:57:18] what song do you have on repeat something in this song? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:57:22] I forgot the name, but my favorite song of all time is a song called Belted, by Akdong musician. It's a Korean song. And there's the siblings like brother and sister. Really beautiful song. I could sing it in Korean too. Fun fact. Harpreet Sahota: [00:57:35] How about you sing us the Hindi song? Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:57:38] I don't speak Hindi. I got away with it on that one. Harpreet Sahota: [00:57:42] So how can people connect with you and where can they find you online. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:57:47] Yeah, absolutely. So if you have any questions, complaints, insults, concerns, don't be shy to send me a message on Instagram. Not famous or anything. Master your talk if you want to check on my YouTube videos. That's MasterTalk One word. Brenden Kumarasamy: [00:57:59] Brenden, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to come on the show today. I really appreciated you sharing all your insight. I know the audience is going to learn so much from your perspective. Thank you. Harpreet Sahota: [00:58:11] Of course Harpreet, Thanks for having me brother.