Chase Cunningham: [00:00:00] Well, I tell everybody all the time is that they need to stop thinking about cyberspace as just a place to e-mail grandma and to go look at movies online, like this is a battlefield environment and it's the only battlefield in the history of man where every nation, every human is engaged at the same time.

Chase Cunningham: [00:00:15] Normally, battlefields are far removed from humans that aren't engaged in cyberspace. The moment you turn in and why Wi-Fi up, you're on that battlefield.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:00:41] What's up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Artists of Data Science. Be sure to follow the show on Instagram at the Artists at Data Science and on Twitter at @ArtistsOfData. I'll be sharing awesome tips and wisdom on data science, as well as clips from the show during the Free Open Mastermind Slack Channel by going to bitly.com/artistsofdatascience. We'll keep you updated on biweekly open office hours. They'll be hosting for the community. I'm your host Harpreet Sahota. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode. And don't to subscribe, rate, and review the show.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:01:30] Our guest today is a retired Navy chief cryptologist with nearly two decades of experience in cyber, forensic and analytic operations.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:01:37] He holds both PHD and Masters in Computer Science from Colorado Technical University and a bachelor's from American Military University focused on counter terrorism operations in cyberspace. His deep technical expertise, advanced education and operational experience has helped senior technology executives with their plans to leverage comprehensive security controls in a variety of standards, frameworks and tools to enable secure business operations. He's rightfully recognized as an innovative cyber security leader with real world knowledge of how to do cyber security right. He holds six patents and has been quoted in more than 150 publications across a variety of media and has been named one of Security magazine's most influential people in security for 2019. So please help me in welcoming our guest today, author of Cyber Warfare, Truth, Tactics and Strategies. Dr. Chase Cunningham, Dr. Cunningham, thank you so much for taking time out, is scheduled to be on the show today. I really, really appreciate having you here.

Chase Cunningham: [00:02:34] Thank you for having me. That was that was a great intro. Couldn't have done better myself.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:02:37] Hey, so talk to us a bit about your professional journey, how you first heard of cyber security, cyber warfare, and kind of what drew you into that field.

Chase Cunningham: [00:02:46] Yeah, I'm one of those just kind of lucky fools, I guess you would say, because I actually joined the Navy as a diesel mechanic.

Chase Cunningham: [00:02:52] I was not a person doing computer or anything. I was literally working on engines and just through luck and some really good leaders happened to see a talent that I had. And they pushed me towards I.T. and I happened to be really interested in not just I.T., but also in intelligence operations. And those two at the time that I was doing all this back in the late 90s, it kind of became a workforce, a role specifically. We called it crypto logic technician was what it was. And as that kind of evolved, that that was just where my career path led me. So, why I say I'm a lucky fool. I could have just as easily continued on being a diesel mechanic. But because of just the know, blessings and leadership, I happened to wind up in a different career field that was better suited for me.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:03:40] That's awesome, man. Just like a right, a nudge in a direction that just led you down the path to go ahead and get that PHD and really go deep into a man. That's really awesome.

Chase Cunningham: [00:03:48] Yeah I mean, I just for the for the the education side of it, I've just always been lucky that I'm self-motivated.

Chase Cunningham: [00:03:55] And, you know, I just took the chances of the government offering me money because I was military.

Chase Cunningham: [00:04:00] And I was like, well, you guys got your money out of me. I'm going to get mine out of you. So, every dollar they had, I put it in education.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:04:06] Here go man. So, for our listeners out there, including me, who might not be familiar with it. Can you define what cyber warfare and cyber security are?

Chase Cunningham: [00:04:15] So, cyber warfare is using electronic means or medium to conduct warfare tactics and operations against enemy combatants.

Chase Cunningham: [00:04:24] Now, a lot of times people would say nation, state versus nation state, that type of thing. Cyber warfare is way broader than that. Anytime that you or another entity is engaged in trying to gain an advantage on an adversary by electronic means, you're essentially engaging in cyber warfare. Now, cyber security is really about securing infrastructures to combat cyber warfare tactics and operations.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:04:49] So, are you able to can talk to us about the work that you're doing, that forester?

Chase Cunningham: [00:04:53] Yeah. So, what I do at Forester's I lead the zero trust research there.

Chase Cunningham: [00:04:56] And if you've if you've heard about the zero trust sort of movement that's going on as far as cyber security strategies, it's it's really been taking the practical side of engaging in better security, not just expense and depth and not just compliance, chasing and really aligning capabilities and tactics and strategies to get towards a state of zero trust.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:05:19] So, that's really interesting. So, I'm curious what the working relationship is like between you and the Data scientists like, you know, what's the overlap between cyber warfare, cyber security with data science and machine learning? How do you guys impact each other's work?

Chase Cunningham: [00:05:33] So, there's a big growth in machine learning and cyber security and cyber space in general because there's so much value that comes from being able to mind for all the data that we look at.

Chase Cunningham: [00:05:41] If you if you really wrap your head around just how much information a cyber security analyst or warfare analyst has to get through, we use email, we use intelligence, we use data mining to make that all possible for us. And that's where there's this intersection going on between data security, data mining, analytics and cyber.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:06:01] Where do you see kind of your field of cyber security, cyber warfare headed in the next two to five years? And how do you see data science and machine learning making an impact in that field as well over the next two to five years?

Chase Cunningham: [00:06:14] Yeah.

Chase Cunningham: [00:06:14] So, cyber war, cyber security in the cyber space really is going to continue to evolve to be as critical to business and national operations as as anything else, health care or economics or whatever.

Chase Cunningham: [00:06:26] Like you can't do anything anymore because we live digital. Without digital security. So that's going to be even bigger. And then on the Data security, intelligence and analytic side of this, it's going to continue to get bigger, better, faster, because there will be more. I mean, if you think about it, in the space of less than a decade, we've gone from less than one hundred million devices online to over three billion. So the only way to crawl through that is with analytics and with data and machine learning.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:06:52] What are some of the concerns, biggest concerns in cyber warfare that we'll face both kind of at individual user level and at the organizational level over the next two to five years?

Chase Cunningham: [00:07:03] Well, I tell everybody all the time is that they need to stop thinking about cyberspace as just a place to email grandma and to go look at movies online. Like this is a battlefield environment.

Chase Cunningham: [00:07:13] And it's the only battlefield in the history of man where every nation, every human is engaged at the same time. Normally, battlefields are far removed from humans that aren't engaged in cyberspace. The moment you turn in and why Wi-Fi up, you're on that battlefield. So after thinking about it in that manner to to be safe and where this is going nationally is I mean, we're already seeing a lot of this stuff. And I hate to sound like I told you so, but I wrote about a bunch of these types of scenarios in my book about using social media to influence narratives and sort it, twist people's way of thinking. And that's exactly what's happening United States right now with a lot of these Twitter accounts and fake bots and all these things that are pushing the protest and whatever else.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:07:56] That's really interesting. And I've never thought about it that way, that cyberspace is just a giant battlefield. That's really interesting. And I was fortunate enough to actually get a copy of your book and was able to thumb through it a little bit. And I'd love to get into some of the book mind. So, I was wondering, you kind of talk to us about what a hacker it is and how different they are in real life compared to how they've been portrayed in Hollywood.

Chase Cunningham: [00:08:19] Yeah, I mean, and if you watch, you know, the movies and talk about hackers, it's always the the unbathed guy living in his mom's basement with a hoodie on, drinking Red Bull or whatever, and he's programming away on code.

Chase Cunningham: [00:08:32] That's just not how it is. Hackers and exploitation folks and cyber warfare operators are extremely professional. They are run by organizations. They are paid nice salaries. They they are publicly sort of noted people know who they are and they're out there because they're doing a job that is needed. And it's every race, every gender, every nationality. This this is this is one of the great things about this space, is it is ripe for growth. This is actually the only space in the world right now that has a negative unemployment rate.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:09:05] Can we talk about a little bit about how hacking has evolved over time?

Chase Cunningham: [00:09:09] Yeah, it's it's where it's it's really a great point to make, because it used to be that to be a hacker, you had to have deep computer science skills. You had to know at a program and really build to build things from the ground up. Well, over the last decade it's become commodities. And now if you're able to use YouTube and go on, you know, Twitter, you can pretty much figure out how to do exploitation operations and how you might not be good enough at it. You won't get caught for doing illegal stuff, but you can you can pop a machine if you can spend a little bit of time online. And it's it's the difference between that. This is back to the warfare scenario of a long, long time ago. The only people that fought in combat were Spartan's. Right. With extreme training and then were built for it. And then it's warfare become more commodities. Anybody can pick up a weapon, became a potential combat. And that's where we are now.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:10:02] There's actually the old adage where you train more today. So, you bleed less in the battlefield. Can you draw a parallel to that? To cyber warfare, cyber security? What do we do now to train more, so that when that war time comes we're bleeding less.

Chase Cunningham: [00:10:18] Yeah, that's that's where folks need to really adapt their training scenarios.

Chase Cunningham: [00:10:22] And it actually drives me nuts because I consult on these all the time of don't just check boxes and don't do the basics for, you know, suburbs warfare, cyber security training, because that's not what the bad guys will do. The last time, I actually did a red team event on an organization that had just had cyber security training, they finished it thirty six hours before we showed up and we were in our OP and we got admin access into the network in under 40 minutes. I mean, because they weren't ready for the way that we were gonna go about it. And the point there is you've got to be willing to expose your workforce to the realities of power. Exploitation occurs, not just something that comes off of a PowerPoint, you know, when I don't click this link thing.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:11:03] And so how can machine learning help detect or prevent these hacking incidents from occurring?

Chase Cunningham: [00:11:08] Well, the only way that we can actually respond now because of the speed and scale that's going on.

Chase Cunningham: [00:11:13] And I mean, if you think about one user, right, on average, each user has three three different devices at any one time. They have an average of 90 accounts at any one time. The math there, it gets really big when you consider how many people are online. The only way to have the capability to respond at scale is with an.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:11:29] And with machine learning power that I know a lot of my audience loves to do kind of personal projects on the side. Like, do you have any suggestions for how they can get up to speed on maybe, you know, creating like a personal project involving machine learning with the cyber security?

Chase Cunningham: [00:11:48] I think one of the things that they would be wise to look at is just follow some of the stuff on, like, pure list, which is P.W.R.L.Y.S.T. There's a whole bunch of different scenarios that are kind of in there.

Chase Cunningham: [00:11:59] And for those machine learning folks, they could basically come up with different ways to use algorithms and mathematics to combat how those operations take place. And a lot of times you think that exploitation is this super nuanced, very specialized skill set. It's not. There's only a few things you can do to a machine to cause a hack. So figure out how to defend that. With your mathematics and your algorithms.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:12:23] Are you able to divulge into a few those things, or is that?

Chase Cunningham: [00:12:27] Well I mean, if you really look at it, I mean, so if you look at most exploitation occurs because of a bad password and username.

Chase Cunningham: [00:12:35] Right. That's usually an easy avenue of access. So if you wanna write a machine learning model that basically calls through currently compromised usernames and passwords and compares them to people's usernames and passwords in an organization and say everyone that has this particular character set, your likelihood of compromise is ninety five percent. Go change your password. Now, you could come up with something like that.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:13:01] Yeah, that's a great idea for a project. So in your book, you mentioned something called The Cyber Shot Heard around the world. You just can't describe that for us. And the impact that that's had on modern cyber security.

Chase Cunningham: [00:13:15] Yeah. So, that was basically the Natanz nuclear hack that occurred is called everyone's pretty familiar with as far as basically the NSA had an operation going on.

Chase Cunningham: [00:13:26] And this is all public domain now where they were trying to get access to the uranium enrichment centrifuges it within the Thornes, and they ran off and they got in there and that that accomplish their mission. However, the problem was because of the Internet, that tool that was used, the leaked out. And it became a publicly available, essentially tactical nuclear weapon. And that was a really bad day when that when it happened. But the reason that's the cyber shot heard round the world was that was the first public of publicly known act activity where a nation state conducted a cyber activity that caused kinetic outcomes on another nation state.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:14:04] Can you, describe a little bit further? What you mean by kinetic outcomes?

Chase Cunningham: [00:14:07] Though, most of the time in electronics warfare, you're usually trying to, like, modify signals or get access or just cause the degradation of the system or whatever.

Chase Cunningham: [00:14:18] Well, the moment that you go in, you cause a physical component. In this case, a centrifuge to no longer work because parts of it actually failed. You've caused a kinetic activity. In other words, something that exists in the physical space. No longer is operational.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:14:33] Interesting. And that event to what has that done to modern cyber security? what's the downstream impact that's had?

Chase Cunningham: [00:14:42] Well, it's number one, that that tool has become publicly available. So everyone on the planet has had access to this. You know national level exploitation tool.

Chase Cunningham: [00:14:51] And number two, it's really made it where people are more aware of like, oh, my gosh, even countries that spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on security can fail, if any one thing is wrong.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:15:02] So, can you taught us a bit about the concept of a perimeter based security model. What is that?

Chase Cunningham: [00:15:10] So, perimeter based security model is the the old model of security. Where you think, you can build a really big sort of firewall. And if you have enough checks on what's coming in and out, you probably can keep the adversary out of your system or network that has proven itself to be categorically ineffective. If if perimeter based security had worked, it wouldn't, we wouldn't have had all the breaches. We've had the last 20 years. So, the that's the strategy. The concept of perimeter based security in theory makes sense, but in practice is not actually effective.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:15:42] So, what would be a better alternative to a perimeter based security?

Chase Cunningham: [00:15:46] That's where you get into the stuff around Zero Trust. That's where in my book. I actually wrote about strategy.

Chase Cunningham: [00:15:52] That's called Edge Intensity Security, which is where you're approaching security with a micro perimeter around each individual entity. That's your edge. And each individual asset has its own controls built into it, which is way more granular, but it is much more effective.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:16:09] Question for you here as a reading through a book and inside the section about cyber security and autonomous vehicles. And I thought this is really fascinating. What does cyber security have to do with autonomous vehicles?

Chase Cunningham: [00:16:22] Yes. Or other autonomous vehicles are really great. I mean, I think that they're a sea change in how we do things. You know, writ large.

Chase Cunningham: [00:16:29] People need to remember that those autonomous vehicles are running based on sensors and algorithms and a whole bunch of applications that are controlling those, and any one of those can be potentially flawed or compromised. And if you do that, it's a really bad day. If you have a an autonomous 18 wheeler decide that it wants to go the wrong way down a highway.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:16:50] Yeah, that bad day for everybody on the road. Have there been any actual instances where where there's been like a cyber security attack on an autonomous vehicle? Have you heard of anything like that occurring?

Chase Cunningham: [00:17:02] So, there was a few guys a couple years ago that that basically showed that they could modify the Jeep as it was driving on the road.

Chase Cunningham: [00:17:11] They could turn the brakes on or off.

Chase Cunningham: [00:17:12] They could have it make left and right turns. They did it as well. On another GM vehicle, Arment Tesla's had a few instances of not necessarily like hack type compromises, but just flaws in the logic that have caused people to die. So it's happened. It's I mean, it's not even likely that someone can argue like, that's not possible. These are applications. These are computers. They just happen to be applications. It's computers stuck to a vehicle.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:17:45] What's up, artists? Be sure to join the free, open, Mastermind slack community by going to bitly.com/artistsofdatascience. It's a great environment for us to talk all things data science, to learn together, to grow together. And I'll also keep you updated on the open biweekly office that will be hosting for our community. Check out the show on Instagram @artistsofdatascience. Follow us on Twitter at @ArtistsOfData. Look forward to seeing you all there.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:18:14] So, let's talk a little bit now about cyber security. Social media and and how, A.I can be used maliciously in this context. Can my can describe that for us?

Chase Cunningham: [00:18:29] Yeah. Well, the biggest one that's most currently noted is the use of deep fakes, which is modifying video and audio to make it look like someone is either acting or doing or saying things that, they're not actually doing and make it believable.

Chase Cunningham: [00:18:42] There was the great Key and Peele video that came out where he was talking like President Obama. There's been a bunch of like Nicolas Cage and Donald Trump videos that are regal areas that are, you know, along those lines. But the reality of that is, is those machine learning models and the A.I. behind them are getting better. So, those videos are becoming harder and harder to determine if they're real. And if you can imagine, you know, being a social media icon or someone with, you know, hundreds of millions of followers and spewing out something really nasty, it looks realistic. You could potentially incite a riot.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:19:15] So, what can we do kind of on the individual level, like how do we guard ourselves from being tricked by these deep fakes? Is there anything that we can we can do?

Chase Cunningham: [00:19:23] I think one of the most simple things that people need to do is ask themselves like, well, what is the outcome from this particular thing?

Chase Cunningham: [00:19:31] If the goal of these type of activities is to incite an emotional response and if something is actually making you feel like emotionally, you need to respond to it. Then the question should become why, Bill? Why is that happening? Is this really something that I think is accurate or is this potentially fake? And it's just trying to goad me into a fight.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:19:51] We're talking about the kinetic responses like. So, with this kind of fall into that category where we have some manipulation of the Amish community models doing these deep fakes, eliciting an emotional response to a human. Would that fall into that kind of category as a kinetic response?

Chase Cunningham: [00:20:08] Well, I mean, it potentially could if you I mean, you know, right now, with all the attention going on across the United States, I mean, somebody put together a really good deed fake that had some really nasty comments coming out about it and put it on the right account aimed at the right group of people.

Chase Cunningham: [00:20:24] And it went viral. I mean, you could people could literally lose their lives over something like that because, I mean, it kicks off and then people emotionally respond and they walk out the door with a baseball bat in their hand, ready to go take someone to task and it gets real bad real quick.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:20:38] I think that's kind of a warning for how A.I Machine learning can be used to, you know, weaponized facts, video sounds. I'm curious how A.I can be used to weaponize biometrics. You brought this up in your book. Would you mind speaking to that point?

Chase Cunningham: [00:20:52] Yeah. So there was a couple of projects.

Chase Cunningham: [00:20:54] The one was called Master Prints, where basically the idea was could they take an image of someone's fingerprint and use email to create a replicative image and then add that pass a biometric? And did it like 99.97% of the time. So, the reality of what's going on with biometrics is biometrics are great. I think biometrics are the future of authentication. However, if you don't guard your biometrics, someone can come up with a way to create fakes that will pass biometric scanners.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:21:26] That's pretty scary. So, you also mentioned your book that this concept of cyber warfare campaign, which I thought to be pretty interesting and, you know, not something that that I typically think about, would you mind kind of discussing that concept, kind of explaining what that is and maybe some of the categories of cyber warfare campaigns?

Chase Cunningham: [00:21:48] Yeah, so I broke it down with I mean, my particular position on that. There's a lot of different campaign types out there.

Chase Cunningham: [00:21:55] Could be, you know, actual property theft. It could be exploitation, it could be, you know, sort of a variety of other things. And what we're trying to get across to folks is to remember that in warfare, which is what is going on in cyberspace, is that there is usually an outcome that they're aiming at. And whatever that outcome is, is what their campaign is trying to get to, maybe gaining literal property. It may be a foothold. That may be something else. But you don't do warfare for the sake of warfare. In other words, you do warfare. So, that you can gain an advantage.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:22:26] What are some of these societal impacts that are possible thanks to, you know, these innovations, steep fakes, machine learning, A.I. and cloud computing?

Chase Cunningham: [00:22:34] I mean, on the good side, there's lots of benefits that we see from those types of solutions. You know, there's there's all kinds of things that Amazon wouldn't work like it does if we didn't have really good machine learning.

Chase Cunningham: [00:22:44] I mean, the logistics alone, they're powered by email. But on the on the negative side, you know, I remind people this all the time is that it's something that can be manipulated to cause great discontent, civil strife, potentially war like physical war, those type of things. And it's because of the speed and scale with which these things operate. And the fact that human beings are actually. Hardwired to respond emotionally. Before we think. So, that's a problem for us as people.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:23:16] I think it's that amygdala part of our brain that we're well and we're actually hardwired to to to react more readily and more violently to video stimulus than we are text based.

Chase Cunningham: [00:23:28] So, in other words. That's why. Yeah. That's why if I put a video out that looks realistic, it will cause a lot more problems than if I write a paper that incites hate speech. Your brain is actually 90 years sees me. 70% of your brain is hard wired to process visual information. And that's goes all the way back to evolution where when you were running around the Serengeti and you saw a lion coming out of the trees, you saw that movement and you moved. So you didn't become my watch. You know, we'd been hardwired for that. And on the far side of it, because we taken all that visual information, it takes you less than a tenth of a second to make a decision based on visual information. So, think about how many times you've seen something on a screen and it's caused you to tear up or to, you know, whatever. If I had written that down on a piece of paper, same scene, it would have taken you a lot longer to have that emotional response.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:24:18] It's really fascinating. What can we learn from observing these past physical warfare actions as part of the cyber spectrum? And I'm taking this quote directly from you, but this question you had, I thought was a fascinating question.

Chase Cunningham: [00:24:32] I mean, I think what we need to learn is that we're operating in a great time of innovation, like the future of humanity is is changing literally by the month, almost based on technology.

Chase Cunningham: [00:24:44] But what we need to remember is that for every good, you know, because there's an equal there's an equilibrium. There's also a potential negative. So, paying attention to that and not necessarily running off to show the next cool, sexy thing into population before we know or even think about what the negative side that might be is a problem.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:25:04] So, you had this interesting section in your book. What happens, when Data and A.I. studies go awry? So would you mind helping us kind of think about that so that we as data scientists can be more kind of diligent and thoughtful in our usage?

Chase Cunningham: [00:25:21] So, this was a great example of of well-intentioned research that could have potentially been very malignant had it gone the wrong way.

Chase Cunningham: [00:25:29] And what it was,a group of researchers said, you know, we have a theory that we could look at a bunch of images of folks that are either hetero or homosexual. And we'll let the A.I. train itself and we'll see. If it can identify one person versus another based on their image. And their image wasn't ever very good. It never got above about the 60 percent threshold. And the problem that you have there is this system was tagging people that either were or weren't homo or heterosexual as being one or the other. And if you can imagine, if that gets out and the wrong hands, it can get really bad really quickly.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:26:05] So, what can we do to kind of prevent these types of biases from happening with our models? Do you have any tips or suggestions for, you know, up and coming Data scientists out there that can be more cognizant of using technology in this way?

Chase Cunningham: [00:26:20] I tell them to really be careful that to use the you know, the term is the juice worth the squeeze.

Chase Cunningham: [00:26:26] In other words, is the benefit that you might get out of this nifty cool research gonna be so great for, you know, the outcome that it's worth the potential negative side of the aspect? I mean, you know, people forget like nuclear power was also what caused nuclear weapons. Right. I mean, that was that we were researching splitting the atom. And then they went, oh, we can also make this go boom. It's the same sort of problem that you might have in this particular scenario. And A.I is great. And I am and I now also is a problem of speed and scale and speed and scale can be OK. Until it gets away from you.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:27:01] Very good advice. Very practical advice as well. What do you think would be the equivalent of, you know, the nuclear bomb for cyber warfare, cyber security?

Chase Cunningham: [00:27:11] I mean, I think the worst case scenario that I see and it's not, you know, hacking a dam or whatever, I think a lot of critical infrastructures and taken pretty seriously.

Chase Cunningham: [00:27:21] But for me, and this is why I wrote about it, is it's really about leading people to make wrong decisions based on faulty information and, you know, inciting that emotional response from people, because that's what danger. That's where there is danger is when people don't think.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:27:38] You've got six patents that are created. Two. Which one is your favorite one?

Chase Cunningham: [00:27:43] Probably the one that we did about being able to detect, if something is causing an exploitation up against a virtual machine without knowing that there was a piece of malware.

Chase Cunningham: [00:27:56] So, basically looking at how the system was doing its thing. And then if you see these anomalies, you go, that must be bad and you shut it down.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:10] Are you an aspiring Data scientist struggling to break into the field? Well, then check out dsdj.co/artists to reserve your spot for a free informational webinar on how you can break into the field. That's going to be filled with amazing tips that are specifically designed to help you land your first job. Check it out dsdj.co/artists. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:36] And of these patents that you've developed.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:28:39] Six of them. Which one do you think is going to be the most relevant to our current times?

Chase Cunningham: [00:28:44] I think that one is probably the most current most applicable because some of the other patents that I had or are a little screwball just because I do know patent and stuff for the sake of patterning it.

Chase Cunningham: [00:28:56] You know, I did some stuff for my PHD that I wound up with a pattern on and that type of thing. So I think the securing virtual systems is probably the most applicable.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:29:05] So speaking of security, virtual systems, why should we kill the password?

Chase Cunningham: [00:29:09] Well, if you look at me, I'm big on. That's why I said it might.

Chase Cunningham: [00:29:13] I call my booth or my booth, my book, Truth Tactics and Strategies. If you look at the truth. People think that hacking and exploitation is this like super amazing malware thingy that a A.I itself into a network. And, you know, logic bombs or whatever. It's not, the largest area for exploitation in history is bad usernames and passwords. So, if you can get rid of those, then you'd reduce a mega sized area compromise.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:29:38] What would be the alternative to passwords? If it's just not.

Chase Cunningham: [00:29:43] Yeah, it's where we're kind of at right now with where you see biometrics and out of band authentication.

Chase Cunningham: [00:29:47] Like, I mean, I still think, we all have passwords. But just like right now, like when I log in to my surface book, it looks at my face. It prompts me for two F.A on my phone. And then I hit a button and log in but I don't enter chase at, you know, cyber.com and then password one and enter.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:30:07] So, that last question here before you jump into a quick lightning round. What's the one thing you want people to learn from your story?

Chase Cunningham: [00:30:14] I think the most important thing is really just take your time and think before you do something.I think, whether it's reacting or building a product or anything that you do.

Chase Cunningham: [00:30:25] I think a lot of times people get lost in this thing of like, I can do this and that's probably good. But you should still sit back and go. If you know, I can't do this. Should, I do this because it might have a negative outcome.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:30:39] I don't says go ahead and jump into Lightning Round. What is your cyber security superpower?

Chase Cunningham: [00:30:45] Probably being very practical. I think that's probably my superpower.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:30:51] It's very good to prepare for like any aspect of life as being practical. I like it, man. So, what's the number one book? Fiction, non-fiction or one of each that you would recommend our audience read and your most impactful take away from it?

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:04] Well, my favorite fiction book is probably Pet Cemetery by Stephen King because I just love those type of books.

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:11] And my favorite nonfiction is probably Man's Search for Meaning, which is a great book to read. Any time you get the chance.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:20] Yeah. Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning. Definitely a very good book. Psychological prison, right?

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:27] Yeah.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:28] So, if you could put a billboard anywhere, what would it say and why. 

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:33] You're transmitting a live fire battlefield environment.

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:36] Are you prepared?

Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:37] And then why would why would you have that as a billboard. 

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:40] Just to continually remind people of, you know, they need to think differently because I know I want folks to understand the space in which they operate.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:31:48] If we could somehow get a magical telephone that allows you to contact 20 year old Chase, what would you tell him?

Chase Cunningham: [00:31:55] I'd tell him. Take your time. Have some patience and look for look for opportunities. And also be willing to take the guidance that folks give you. I was pretty hardheaded, when I was younger,

Harpreet Sahota: [00:32:10] So, what's the best advice you've received?

Chase Cunningham: [00:32:13] The best advice I ever received was from my grandfather. And you said you have two years and one mouth. Listen, twice as much of his speech.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:32:19] I absolutely love that. Absolutely love that advice. So, what motivates you?

Chase Cunningham: [00:32:24] Well, I'm motivated just because I like to compete with myself. I'm one of the folks that like. I'm good on team.

Chase Cunningham: [00:32:32] Like, I'm okay with teams. I'm not really a team sport person, but I'm good on, you know, a working team. But I'm motivated by, I want to do better than what I did yesterday. And it's not against it's not anybody else. It's all just people to me.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:32:46] Absolutely, love that man. Just continual self improvement continuously, just doing whatever it is that you like to do to be a better person, whether that's, you know, reading books, working out just whatever it takes to do better than you were doing yesterday. Absolutely. Love that mentality. What song do you currently have on repeat?

Chase Cunningham: [00:33:04] Actually, right now it's probably Fast Hand by Cody Jinx. 

Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:07] Alright. Definitely have to check that out.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:11] So, how can people connect with you? Where can they find you?

Chase Cunningham: [00:33:16] So, definitely can find me on the book on Amazon.com. Just look for Chase Cunningham, the one on there that's got cyber as far as everything else.

Chase Cunningham: [00:33:23] I'm on Twitter with @CynjaChaseC. And then I'm on LinkedIn. Just Chase Cunningham. I'm the only chase going on with a cartoon avatar.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:33] Yeah, it's pretty bad ass cartoon avatar as well.

Harpreet Sahota: [00:33:36] So, Dr. Cunningham, thank you so, so much for taking time that you're scheduled to be here today. I really, really appreciate it.

Chase Cunningham: [00:33:43] Thanks for having me. It was great talking to you ever. I really, really appreciate you. Let me on the show.