Christain Espinosa_mixdown.mp3-from OneDrive Christian: [00:00:00] The final step is kaisen. Kaisen is a Japanese word that means constant and never ending improvement with any of the six steps prior or the entire methodology. It's a journey and you're not going to perfect it right out of the gate is taking this first step and the next step and the next step, and then making improvements as you move along. So that's the seven steps to the secure methodology. Harpreet: [00:00:29] What's up, everybody, welcome to the artists Data Science Podcast, the only self-development podcast for Data scientists. You're going to learn from and be inspired by the people ideas and conversations that'll encourage creativity and innovation in yourself so that you can do the same for others. I also host open office hours you can register to attend by going to Bitly.com/adsoh forward slash a d s o h. I look forward to seeing you all there. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode, and don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a five star review. Our guest today has defined his purpose as raising ambition, increasing connection, disrupting the status quo and empowering his clients to protect Life and Data From cyber criminals. He's the founder and CEO of Alpine Security and has worked as a university professor, network and systems engineer. A white hat hacker and has been an innovator and entrepreneur in the cybersecurity industry since 1993. He holds multiple patents on cybersecurity attack and defense simulation, and has worked on projects including penetration testing and security Harpreet: [00:01:52] Assessments of Harpreet: [00:01:53] Commercial aircraft, medical device penetration testing Harpreet: [00:01:57] And numerous other incident Harpreet: [00:01:59] Response [00:02:00] projects. Today, he's here to talk to us about his book The Smartest Person in the Room, The Root Cause and The Solution for Cybersecurity, Harpreet: [00:02:08] Which is surprisingly Harpreet: [00:02:10] Less about cybersecurity and more Harpreet: [00:02:12] About being human. So please help me in welcoming our guests today, Harpreet: [00:02:16] The man who organizations Harpreet: [00:02:18] Call when they want Harpreet: [00:02:19] To protect themselves from cyber criminals. Christian Espinosa, Christian, thank you so much for taking time in your schedule to come on to the show. Man, I appreciate having you here. Christian: [00:02:27] Yeah, thank you, Harp. I appreciate the nice introduction there. Harpreet: [00:02:30] It's awesome. That's absolutely my pleasure, man. I've really enjoyed the book and I'm super excited to get into some of the awesome stuff you talk about. But first, let's get to know you a little bit. Talk to us a little bit about Harpreet: [00:02:43] Where you grew up and what was it like there? Christian: [00:02:45] Yeah, I grew up in Harpreet: [00:02:47] Two main places. Christian: [00:02:49] I was in Riverside, California, until about the age of 12, and California's riverside is like a suburb of L.A., basically Southern California. So it's very nice weather wise. Like every day is like a nice weather. I can walk to school back in the days where children can still walk to school and ride my bike and skateboard. It was it was nice there. Harpreet: [00:03:08] And then at Christian: [00:03:09] Age 12, I moved to Arkansas, which is quite of a quite a bit of a culture shock. I went from a large city like riverside to a town of like eight hundred in Arkansas called Knoxville, and the school was tiny and it was quite a bit of a culture shock in Arkansas has a lot of humidity. Harpreet: [00:03:28] There's not a lot of things Christian: [00:03:28] To do, kind of like California, there's it's a very different environment. Yeah, and those are the two main areas I grew up in. My childhood was pretty rough, especially in Arkansas, and I wrote up a little bit about that in the book. Harpreet: [00:03:41] Yeah, man. Inland Empire. I know exactly where Harpreet: [00:03:43] That set of. Harpreet: [00:03:44] I'm from California originally as well, from Sacramento. So I lived in Southern California for quite a year, almost a decade and quite quite some years. I mean, almost a decade. So I used to cut through Riverside on the 15 freeway, heading to to Vegas quite often. Oh yeah, yeah. So yeah, man, [00:04:00] yeah, that's you talk about in your book. Maybe you had quite a rough and tumble upbringing, definitely through a lot of shit. Harpreet: [00:04:05] And that's made you a stronger person. Harpreet: [00:04:08] Like, you're like running ultra marathons and stuff like that, doing Iron Man stuff like some of these stories you talk about. And I'm just like, Wow, that is super, super inspiring. Talk to us a little bit about that. But these are the ultra marathons and the Iron Man stuff like that. Christian: [00:04:21] Yeah, I actually have an Ironman coming up on May 23rd in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I just got notification that it's going to run as scheduled. So an Iron Man is a triathlon is three sports. It's a two point four mile swim, 112 mile bike ride in a twenty six point two mile run a marathon. You have 17 hours to complete it. I've done twenty two Iron Man's. I started probably in two thousand five, really. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to do a triathlon to race him in a triathlon, and he's very competitive and I used to be very competitive and I just agreed. I didn't even know what a triathlon was. I couldn't swim, I didn't have a bike, but I would just like back then. I would just say yes to everything, basically. Harpreet: [00:05:00] So I said yes and did it Christian: [00:05:02] And ended up beating him. And after that, I sort of like got into triathlon and started like gradually increasing my distance up into the Ironman distance. And then I like running in the woods. So I started doing some ultra running and trail running as well. And it's just been something I've added to my lifestyle. It kind of gives me a reason to work out when there's something on the Harpreet: [00:05:22] Calendar like a triathlon Christian: [00:05:24] Or an Ironman. It sort of forces you to work out and gives you a. We you're working out because in the past I used to just be like one of those weightlifters that would go to the gym and just lift weights to look good, but there's really no point. But now I've got to practice swimming, practice, running, practice, biking. I have specific things to work on in a goal to work towards. Harpreet: [00:05:43] And you've also you also do like some crazy mountain climbing type of stuff as well, right? Christian: [00:05:47] Yeah, I have a goal to climb the seven summits. I've done two of the seven so far and I had to put them on hold a little bit with my business. It took a lot more work than I thought. So I've done Kilimanjaro, which is really just a hike Harpreet: [00:05:58] That's in Africa and I've done [00:06:00]Mount Elbrus Christian: [00:06:01] In Russia. That's the highest peak in Europe. And then I've done some of the mountains, like in Mexico and in Washington state, but I haven't done the other seven, the other five summits yet still on my list. Harpreet: [00:06:13] When you're growing up as a kid man, did you ever think that you'd be this crazy ultra marathon running Iron Man, mountain climbing cybercriminal fighting awesome individual? Christian: [00:06:22] I wasn't quite sure what I what I would be, what I grew up. I always like adventure. I like to be outdoors, so I knew that something in my future would involve outdoor activity and spending time in nature. And that's, you know, that's the other reason I like triathlon and and ultra running is when you're out in nature and I get a lot of energy from from nature, I feel grounded and peaceful and tranquil when I'm outside and listening to the wind and everything else. Harpreet: [00:06:48] Yeah, man takes a bit of discipline and just self rigor to be able to want to put yourself through these really challenging types of situation. Where's that? Where does that come from for you? Christian: [00:07:00] I think it comes from my my, my childhood. I, you know, my child was difficult, difficult growing up. So I got a lot of Harpreet: [00:07:09] Solace and peace Christian: [00:07:11] By going out in nature. But that's kind of why I got attracted to nature, I think, to Harpreet: [00:07:15] Get away from my childhood Christian: [00:07:17] Environment at my house. And then for the challenge part, I like putting myself, you know, it's not always about the destination throughout the journey. So with Iron Man, because a lot of people ask me, like, why have you done 20 to Iron Man's? Why don't you know, have you done enough? Why don't you stop? And to me, it's it's about the journey as much as it's about the destination. So like, getting ready for an Ironman is great. Going to a new venue like I haven't raced in Tulsa before Oklahoma going there, the logistics of meeting the people in the race, doing the race and experiencing the weather and the conditions. And then in turn, the race is so long it usually takes me like 14 hours, 13 to 14 hours to finish that you have like [00:08:00] it's like your entire life the ups and downs of life compressed into a, you know, a 14 hour period, basically. So at some point you want to quit, at some point you're you're feeling great, at some point you're feeling miserable, at some point you're pulling a feeling on top of the world and you're on this journey with these other people as well. Harpreet: [00:08:19] So it's really an inner Christian: [00:08:20] Battle with yourself and in your mind and you you obviously have to be fit physically to do an Iron Man, but a lot of it's mental. Same thing of mountaineering. It focuses you to be present. So to me, it's it's that journey and it helps me become more resilient and resourceful along the way. And I learned more about myself. Harpreet: [00:08:40] That's really why I do these things over and over. Harpreet: [00:08:42] Yeah, man. Like you guys, check out his book Smartest Person in the Room. It's also available and audible. You talk a lot about some of these challenges you've been through with these physical endurance type of exercises. And then you talk a lot about the Harpreet: [00:08:54] Battle with the mind Harpreet: [00:08:56] As well, which I really, really enjoyed. So I mean, from everything from, you know, traditional type of kind of self-development, type of of of content to like, you know, ancient philosophical type of stuff. It's really, really cool, man. Talk about stoicism and stuff in your book as well. I really, really enjoyed those parts. But yeah, we're going we're going to dig into the book. But let's start with the actual title of the book, right? What does it mean to be the smartest person Harpreet: [00:09:21] In the room, right? Because that's not Harpreet: [00:09:23] Always a Harpreet: [00:09:23] Good thing, right? Harpreet: [00:09:24] What does that mean to you? And when is it a bad thing? Christian: [00:09:28] The smartest person in the room means if you believe you're the smartest person in the room, typically that means you're Harpreet: [00:09:35] Closed to new Christian: [00:09:36] Ideas. You don't have a lot of curiosity because you believe you have all the answers. In my industry and in other industries, it typically shows up as intellectual bullying. You know, you'll talk over somebody's head or you'll make somebody else feel Harpreet: [00:09:52] Diminished because Christian: [00:09:53] That's how you get your significance Harpreet: [00:09:54] As being, quote, smarter than everybody. Christian: [00:09:57] It also shows up as posturing. A lot of people that feel [00:10:00] like they're the smartest person room will posture, meaning they won't admit when they don't know something. Yeah, when people Harpreet: [00:10:06] Posture, they're Christian: [00:10:07] Afraid to admit they don't know something. Because if you admit you don't know something, then you basically have this fear that you may not be perceived as the smartest person in the room or your intelligence is maybe diminished Harpreet: [00:10:21] So that if you're afraid Christian: [00:10:22] To admit you don't know something that really hinders communication, it's hard. It's hard to have an open communication. Is someone an open discussion Harpreet: [00:10:30] When they're constantly pretending Christian: [00:10:32] That they know what you're talking about or they know what the problem is, then they're not going to be open to saying, You know what, I really don't even know what you're talking about here. Let's let's unpack that a little bit. So it really is highly technical career fields. It is a massive problem, a major problem. Harpreet: [00:10:47] It's definitely a problem for sure. Harpreet: [00:10:50] In my field, Data science, which I mean, at the end of the day, Data science is very closely related to cybersecurity. We're all kind of in the technology space there. So, yeah, we definitely suffer some of these same types of individuals who Harpreet: [00:11:00] Who are trying to be the Harpreet: [00:11:01] Smartest people in the room. But but what? Why is it that that most technical Harpreet: [00:11:06] People have this? Harpreet: [00:11:07] This need to feel like the smartest person in the room? Christian: [00:11:11] I talk about this in the book a little bit. There's these six human needs. Significance is one of them and significance. Uncertainty are the two or the six human needs that most people gravitate towards, especially highly technical people. So if your significance because all of us want to feel significant, we want to feel we're significant at something for technical career fields. Typically, people feel significant because of their intellectual capacity or their their smarts, basically. So that significance drives their behavior because if you've identified and create your identity based on being smarter than other people based on this is what makes me great. Then you're going to look for ways to Harpreet: [00:11:54] Prove that because your ego Christian: [00:11:56] Is going to look for ways to validate what you've identified as your identity, [00:12:00] which is being smarter than other people, which is driven from your significance. So that's that's the main reason, because like I said, we all want to be significant. We all want to be known for something. Harpreet: [00:12:10] And typically Christian: [00:12:11] In technical career fields, it's it's been smart Harpreet: [00:12:14] And we'll talk about this a little bit later about the mindset and stuff, too. But typically, it's like those people who feel the need to be the smartest person in the room. Harpreet: [00:12:21] They're also like that fixed Harpreet: [00:12:22] Mindset type of individual as well, right? They kind of define themselves by being smart and and totally get some kind of rambling there. But is that a correlation? I guess my question is, is there a correlation or a relationship between the need to be like the smartest person in the room and having like a fixed mindset? Christian: [00:12:42] Yeah, that's an interesting topic. There is a correlation there. From my experience, a lot of people, you know, want to be the smartest person room, but they sort of like compartmentalize on what they want to be smart about, like only technical stuff. And the way I look at it is, if you're super smart, then your whole life, all aspects of it should be reflection of your, you know, total intelligence. It shouldn't just be compartmentalized. I'm really good with computers. I'm really good with numbers. It should be that I Harpreet: [00:13:13] Am great with people. Christian: [00:13:15] I'm great with other things as well. My diet, whatever else, it should pertain to that as well. So from a fixed mindset perspective, I would agree that a lot of people that say they're the smartest person in the room, they're they're limiting their belief to just being smart about one particular topic. And that's where the fixed mindset comes into play, because if you have the growth mindset, you might say, You know what? I'm not too good with people, but I can certainly get better with people, whereas with a fixed mindset, a lot of people would say, I'm not. I'm just not good with people, period, and they believe they can't get good with people. But to me, that's not that's not that's not a measure of intelligence, because if you are, if you have intelligence, you would believe in a growth mindset that you can get better with people, for instance. Harpreet: [00:13:59] Awesome, [00:14:00] man. Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate that that really help me kind of understand it a bit more deeply. So you have kind of an antagonist. Can we call this this character, the antagonist of the book and you call them the paper tiger? So what? Who are these paper tigers and why are they so dangerous? Christian: [00:14:18] Yeah. Paper tigers Harpreet: [00:14:20] Are Christian: [00:14:20] All growl and no teeth, right? So in my industry and cybersecurity and probably in other industries, specifically in cybersecurity, a paper tiger is someone that that goes and passes a cybersecurity certification, but they don't actually know the material that they're being tested on. Because a lot of the exams in my industry and the certifications, you can go to the internet, find a brain dump or cheat sheet and basically memorize the answers and then go take the test. So what's happened is we have Harpreet: [00:14:51] A lot of job openings Christian: [00:14:53] Where they're trying to hire people that are certified and then people that want to get a job in cybersecurity know that. So they go out and take all these tests. The employers don't actually test them on something practical. And then you end up hiring these people that are paper tigers. And then when there's a real incident or real criminal trying to break into your network, the paper tigers don't know what to do because they actually don't know anything other than what they memorize to take the test. Harpreet: [00:15:17] So these would be like the type of individuals who maybe they're getting into cybersecurity, not because they they genuinely enjoy it or they're interested in it. They're just like, Oh, this is a high paying field. I can probably get job security here, let me just let me get into it for these reasons, right? But they're not getting into it because of of the actual interesting understanding of it. And so because they get into the field through this means of taking exams and memorizing the answers and stuff anytime they're in a situation where they're being questioned Harpreet: [00:15:48] About their intelligence, they tend to just throw up guards Harpreet: [00:15:50] And get super defensive. Is that kind of about how that works out? Christian: [00:15:53] Yeah, that's right. The paper tigers can talk a good talk, Harpreet: [00:15:57] But they can't walk the Christian: [00:15:59] Walk, basically. [00:16:00] So yeah, when you know, in a meeting or Harpreet: [00:16:03] With a policy or Christian: [00:16:05] Whatever, from a cybersecurity perspective, they can talk about it. But when there's a real issue and they have to have hands on keyboard or actually think outside of like some terms they've heard and actually put together a plan, that's where they struggle. And this is one of the reasons the cybercriminals are winning because the cyber criminals don't have paper tigers, they actually know what they're doing because this is what they do for a living. But we've created this problem in our industry because people want to make money. So if I can go rather than get a college degree, if I can spend, you know, Harpreet: [00:16:38] Fifty dollars on a brain dumps Christian: [00:16:40] And go take a certification exam and get a job the next day, making one hundred a hundred K. Then, of course, people are going to do that. People will naturally gravitate towards the shortcuts. Harpreet: [00:16:49] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I feel like we've got some individuals like that in data science, but they kind of just feel that they could take the certifications and that should entitle them to a job. So a little bit of that protagonist for four as well. So the really to a point like I think Harpreet: [00:17:07] You talk about it very, very beautifully Harpreet: [00:17:08] In the book, and I think it's applicable not only to cyber security industry, but with the data science industry as well. And it's about the current process for hiring people to talk to us about what you think is wrong with the way we're currently hiring technical talent Harpreet: [00:17:25] And how do you Harpreet: [00:17:26] Go about it differently? Christian: [00:17:28] I think we're doing a couple of things wrong for for technical talent. We're relying too Harpreet: [00:17:33] Much on on degrees, Christian: [00:17:35] College degrees, and we're relying too much on certifications. And this has created this quote talent shortage. If we require everybody to have a four year degree for an entry level position and certifications, of course, there's going to be a talent shortage. What I have done with my hiring and I've made a lot of mistakes. I've taken the journey I used to hire people based on their technical aptitude. [00:18:00] First, I didn't care if they had a college degree or if they had certifications. It would be their technical aptitude to see how, how technically great they were. And and I write about this in the book. Almost everybody I hired based on that Harpreet: [00:18:13] Alone was a horrible Christian: [00:18:15] Fit for my organization. So since I've learned these lessons the hard way, I flipped the script, and when I'm interviewing somebody, I look at their technical ability. Last I look at their people skills. First, I look to see if they're good, fit for a core values and also look to see if they're good cultural fit. If they meet those Harpreet: [00:18:34] Things, then Christian: [00:18:36] And only then will I look Harpreet: [00:18:37] At their technical skills Christian: [00:18:39] Because ultimately it doesn't matter how good somebody is technically if they don't have. There's another good cultural fit or they don't have the skills to deal with our clients or the team. Internally, they're they're not going to be a good fit for the organization. And when I looked at all the problems I've had in my organization with Alpine security and in other organizations, the problems haven't been a technical challenge that we couldn't solve. The problems have almost always Harpreet: [00:19:03] Been the result of a Christian: [00:19:05] Technical person mishandling communication with a prospect or a client or upsetting them in some capacity, which is much more harder to fix than someone missing something minor technically. Harpreet: [00:19:18] So during the interview process, how can you tell that somebody knows what their their y is? Or how do you assess for fit Harpreet: [00:19:28] Against like a cultural Harpreet: [00:19:29] Cultural fit? Christian: [00:19:31] There's there's a couple of things we do so too. We have seven core values and alpine security. So one of the things we do is we ask people we interview to give us a scenario of where they've used one of those core Harpreet: [00:19:41] Values, like what are the core values? Christian: [00:19:43] Is ownership, basically. So we ask them to say, give us a scenario where you had to take ownership over something that initially you thought wasn't your area of responsibility, for instance. And then to weed out the paper tigers and to find out if somebody is passionate about Harpreet: [00:19:58] Cybersecurity [00:20:00] or passionate Christian: [00:20:00] About our industry. I will typically ask them questions like What got you into cybersecurity or how do you see yourself making a difference in cybersecurity or what would make the job fulfilling for you? So you can ask some kind of pointed questions instead of just asking why you're in cybersecurity, you can ask them what and how questions and the answers will be pretty revealing. Harpreet: [00:20:22] You know, somebody just Christian: [00:20:23] Says, Well, you know, I heard there's a lot of money in cybersecurity and I just want an option. That's probably not the right person you want your company, but if someone actually thought it through, then you can tell from the answers. Harpreet: [00:20:34] I feel like these are questions we should all be asking ourselves as we embark upon any career trajectory. Are those questions that you just Harpreet: [00:20:41] Laid out because they're very introspective, Harpreet: [00:20:43] But you should know why it is that you're pursuing this particular path because you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Christian: [00:20:49] Yeah, exactly. Harpreet: [00:20:51] So I'd love to talk about your secure methodology. I guess if you could talk about it at a high level and then I want to want to dig deep on a couple of my my favorite parts of the secure methodology. Ok. Christian: [00:21:03] Yeah. The secure methodology is a seven step methodology I Harpreet: [00:21:07] Came up with through my Christian: [00:21:09] Experience with highly technical or high IQ, low IQ people and my own company, starting my company and then ultimately selling the company. So it's seven steps. I call it the secure methodology because I'm a believer that if your inner world is not secure, then your environment or your external world is not going to be secure, so it helps you secure Harpreet: [00:21:31] Yourself as well as Christian: [00:21:33] The outside world. And it has seven steps. The first step is awareness. With awareness, you need to have awareness of yourself and awareness of others, for instance. And I talk a little bit about neuro linguistic programing in the book and neural pathways. And we have these these patterns we run when we're triggered, and it's like a program that runs in our brain. And from an awareness perspective, it's good to understand, like when somebody says something this way or I hear a siren or a I [00:22:00] hear this word or whatever, I'm going to automatically start this program before you know you ran the program, you don't even realize what happened. A lot of us think we're, you know, we're not very predictable, but we're actually very predictable because we have these, these patterns and these programs that run on our brain. So I talk about that a little bit in how to break those patterns. And then the second step is mindset. I talk about the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset. I do a little bit of comparison to the Matrix. In The Matrix, there's the red pill and the blue pill. Neo chooses the red pill, which is sort of like the growth mindset that allows him to realize, Hey, I'm in this matrix and it's going to be challenging, but I can grow and other people will choose the blue pill. They want to stay in their status quo environment and not really grow. They just want to pretend, you know, this other world, this sort of stuff is is not really out there. Then I talk about acknowledgment in any career field and as a Harpreet: [00:22:51] Leader, it's important to acknowledge Christian: [00:22:53] Yourself and people that work for you. This is something I struggle with in my entire career. I've never really like patted myself on the back or give myself credit for anything I always just like, move on to the next thing. And what I realize is, if I can't give myself credit or acknowledge myself, I'm going to have a difficult time acknowledging others, which is it's a problem for a leader. And then step four is communication. We talk about the NLP presuppositions a little bit. One of them is the meaning of communication is the response you get that shifts the ownership of communication on you. A lot of people will just continue to communicate the same way over and over and over and expecting the person all of a sudden to get it. But it's really on you as a communicator to alter your communication, to make sure the message is received and go over some tactics to do that. And then the fifth step Harpreet: [00:23:42] Is mono tasking. Christian: [00:23:44] So mono tasking is in contrast to multitasking. We've been kind of brainwashed to want to multitask and do like 17 things at once. Check our Harpreet: [00:23:52] Email, check our text Christian: [00:23:53] Messages, talk on the phone, you know, do a Zoom call, type up a report and that is horribly inefficient. [00:24:00] So I'm a proponent of mono tasking for two main reasons. One of them is productivity. If you mono task and have concentrated focus, you can be much more productive. And the other reason is presence. If you are talking to somebody in your mono tasking, you're listening is going to improve because you're actually listening. And that helps with communication. And those seven steps are in an order because like with presence in mono tasking, you need to have awareness first before you can do that, for instance. And then the sixth step is empathy. So I talk a little bit about cognitive versus affective empathy and how, as a society, we tend to focus on our differences where we should be looking at our similarities. It's hard to be empathetic with somebody when we're not looking at them. As a fellow human being, we look at them as like, Well, you know, Joe is a salesperson Harpreet: [00:24:47] And I am a technical Christian: [00:24:49] Engineer or data scientist, right? So we're all humans at Harpreet: [00:24:53] The fundamental Christian: [00:24:54] Level, and we share a lot more in common than we realize. And then the final step is Kaizen. Kaizen is a is a Japanese word that means constant and never ending improvement with any of the six steps prior or the entire methodology. It's a journey, and you're not going to perfect it right out. The gate is taking this first step and the next step and the next step, and then making improvements as you move along. So that's the seven steps to the secure methodology. And ultimately, you know, I know my book is focused on a little bit about cybersecurity, but cybersecurity is the. Context of my experience and my stories in the book, but the seven steps really apply to anybody because they ultimately help you become a better human being. Harpreet: [00:25:36] Yeah, I found it Harpreet: [00:25:37] Highly like, highly relatable to to Harpreet: [00:25:40] Myself as a data scientist at. Absolutely. The parallels are all there. So anybody who's data scientists are going to benefit tremendously from from this as well. And yeah, so that that was the answer to my question that I was wondering if the methodology is it like, do we work through it in order or is it kind of like something that happens like Harpreet: [00:25:56] Different pieces fit together, Harpreet: [00:25:58] But whatever. But you have to go through [00:26:00] them in order, Christian: [00:26:01] So we don't have to go through them in order. I recommend you go to them in order, but you can certainly take one section like communication and work on improving that without going through the rest of them. Ok? But but for instance, if if you haven't gone through awareness and mindset, you're probably you may have some struggles, you know, proving your communication, for instance. Yeah. Harpreet: [00:26:20] And you know, you talked about just briefly, I want to talk a little bit more about the two types of awareness. Harpreet: [00:26:26] I know you touched on on on awareness, but can we help Harpreet: [00:26:29] Us break that down a little bit Harpreet: [00:26:31] Further? Harpreet: [00:26:31] These two different types of awareness that we have. What are they? Christian: [00:26:35] Yeah. In the book, I talk about self awareness and awareness of others, like two broad categories. A lot of us like to think we're very aware of the world around us without taking the time to, like, turn the mirror on us and be aware of our own interactions of how we impact the world. It's important to Harpreet: [00:26:52] Look at awareness mainly Christian: [00:26:55] From how you interact with the world. I think self awareness is more important than awareness of others because a lot of us, we always assume it's somebody else's a problem or there's some other thing that's going on. And I talk about in the book and I think I talk about cause and effect from an awareness perspective. Harpreet: [00:27:13] You generally want Christian: [00:27:14] There's an equation and NLP that C is greater than E cause you should be living at Harpreet: [00:27:20] Cause, which means that you Christian: [00:27:23] Cause the effect of everything in your life. A lot of people, if they lack self awareness, there E is greater than C and they believe everything else around them is causing the effect on their life. So it's it's flipping that around, but you have to have the self-awareness to do that. Harpreet: [00:27:39] And you talk about this really cool exercise that you use to help broaden our awareness. You talk about that. Christian: [00:27:46] Yeah, I've got a few exercises in the book. There's the perspective Harpreet: [00:27:50] Taking one where you look at the Christian: [00:27:52] Context of a scenario. I think the one you're referring to might be if you're going to order a coffee and the person is really slow [00:28:00] and there have been, you know, you might complain to the manager, but without understanding that there's something going on behind the scenes, like the person's grandmother may have just died or something. So there's a reason they're acting the way they are. You may not complain to the manager, even though the scenario is exactly the same. Another example I like to look at from my own life and I do this like daily, is what I call Condor Vision. I talk about that a little bit in the book. It's basically it's a shamanism thing that studied shamanism a little a little bit where it's a way to disassociate from your life. So from an awareness perspective, we're always. Most of us are most of the time like looking at our life right up front, up close and personal. And sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, literally. So when you practice something like condor vision, you like zoom out of your life and you pretend you're looking at your life from like a condor flying above it. And you can see, like the whole force, you can see where you are and you can see the big picture and sometimes like Harpreet: [00:28:55] It helps you not Christian: [00:28:57] Get so wrapped up. And the thing you're working on right the minute because you can see like there's a bigger thing at play and that disassociation and that exercise is very useful for me. Harpreet: [00:29:06] Yeah, that was the what I was talking about the conservation. I really, really like that. That exercise, I do something similar, but in kind of a different, different context. It's like that called like the circles of higher cliffs where you think, you know, you think about, Okay, here's me, my mind. The outside of Harpreet: [00:29:21] That is like my, my family, Harpreet: [00:29:22] My family say, think, think about things from their perspective and you keep going. I work for your neighborhood, your city, to your province, to Harpreet: [00:29:30] Your continent, and Harpreet: [00:29:32] Eventually just thinking about your place in the entire world. It makes you just feel it puts things in perspective. Say that? Christian: [00:29:38] Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. I like that. Harpreet: [00:29:41] So talking about mindset, why is it that a lot of people Harpreet: [00:29:46] Confuse mindset Harpreet: [00:29:48] And attitude? Christian: [00:29:49] I think the terms are used interchangeably quite a bit. The way I look at it as mindset is what you believe about the world and how you see it. And attitude is typically how you react to the world. So you can have [00:30:00] a growth mindset, for instance. But as you're going through the journey to mastery, you could be like pissed off the whole time, right? Harpreet: [00:30:07] That's your attitude. Christian: [00:30:08] So you want to Harpreet: [00:30:09] Have like a positive Christian: [00:30:11] Attitude and a growth mindset, both because, you know, if you're growing, Harpreet: [00:30:15] But your your Christian: [00:30:16] Attitude is Harpreet: [00:30:17] That you don't like it along the way that you think it Christian: [00:30:20] Sucks, then it's not going to be a pleasant journey. You know, ultimately, you know, life boils down to how you feel in the moment and how. Harpreet: [00:30:27] You feel, you know, throughout your day, Christian: [00:30:29] So why not try to generate feelings that are more positive and more happy than painful feelings, right? Harpreet: [00:30:38] Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, I'm all about that growth mindset, but I mean, there's sometimes I don't know if I'm like fooling myself because it's something I know I should have. Harpreet: [00:30:47] Like, you know, Harpreet: [00:30:47] Like intellectually, I'm like, Oh yeah, I should have a growth mindset. I should I should know that I'm able to, you know, my mind is plastic or there's neuroplasticity, and I should be able to to know all these things. But I don't know, man, I don't know if if I truly have one or if I truly have like a growth mindset or like a false growth mindset. I don't know. Don't know if that makes sense. But what do you think is like the false growth mindset a thing? Do you think it's possible to identify whether we have a real growth mindset or a false one? Christian: [00:31:14] Yeah, I think it's a total take. I think if you ask one hundred people if they have a fixed mindset or growth mindset, most people are going to self-identify as having a growth mindset. Harpreet: [00:31:24] I think the real test is for what you're saying. Christian: [00:31:27] If you have a false growth mindset that the test for me is a congruence test. So if I tell myself I have a growth mindset about a specific thing like, let's say I want to improve my relationship and I have a growth mindset about my relationship, but then none of my actions align Harpreet: [00:31:44] With my Christian: [00:31:45] Belief of improving my relationship. Then from my perspective, I don't pass the test. I don't really have a growth mindset because I have like the false growth mindset. You said I Harpreet: [00:31:54] I think I say Christian: [00:31:55] One thing, but Harpreet: [00:31:56] I do another. So it needs to be Christian: [00:31:57] Congruent with your belief in your actions [00:32:00] need to align. And that's something like relationships or communication is something you can always improve on. And I found myself for a while in that sort of false growth mindset. I was like, Yeah, I want to get better at relationships. I want to get better at my communication. I want to get better understanding how women talk and what they need versus men. And then I wasn't doing anything about it. So finally, I said, You know what? I'm going to take this Harpreet: [00:32:24] Ultimately relationship program, Christian: [00:32:26] And it talked to some people about this. I'm going to watch some YouTube videos and then my actions aligned with my belief. So I actually embraced the growth mindset only, but only when I did that. Harpreet: [00:32:37] Ok, so it's kind of like that that the difference would be, OK, it's one thing for me to say yes, I want to improve in this aspect of my life for whatever reason. But then if I'm actually doing the steps like you said, like we can't read and might be reading some articles and might be doing the mental work or Harpreet: [00:32:51] Whatever, then that's a good indication Harpreet: [00:32:53] That I'm on the actual growth mindset path, not just in a false growth mindset. Harpreet: [00:32:57] Yeah, exactly. And that's that's Christian: [00:33:00] Yeah, that's the congruence, Harpreet: [00:33:01] Right? You're being congruent Christian: [00:33:02] With your belief. Yeah. If you are, you are being what you believe. Harpreet: [00:33:06] Exactly. Yeah, because I'll be like because like, like a sane intellectually like, I know that. Ok, yeah, I know it's things hard. I don't understand this particular thing yet, but I know I can get it. But even while I'm on that path of like improving, there's still like a little nagging voice in the head. Harpreet: [00:33:20] Like, Do you really know, like, Harpreet: [00:33:21] Are you really getting this? Like, do you really understand what's happening? Harpreet: [00:33:24] So that's that kind of Harpreet: [00:33:26] Conflict that I have. Sometimes that makes me wonder if it's actually a growth mindset that I actually have, if or if there's just like a lingering, you know, fixed mindset guy from all those decades of growing up, Harpreet: [00:33:36] That's that's Harpreet: [00:33:38] Rearing its ugly head. But I guess if we're on the path, if we're if we're actively taking Harpreet: [00:33:43] Strides and doing what we can to Harpreet: [00:33:45] Quiet that voice out then have no fear. We have growth mindset. Christian: [00:33:48] Yeah, yeah, you're Harpreet: [00:33:50] Trying to grow in that area, right? Yeah. You know, just thinking Christian: [00:33:53] About it, you're actually working on it. Yeah, exactly. Harpreet: [00:33:56] Appreciate that. Thank you. So you talk about NLP presuppositions, [00:34:00] different type of NLP than what US data scientists and machine learning people are used to. We think natural language processing. But of course, this is neuro linguistic programing, which is funny if we see like neuro linguistic programing on a data Harpreet: [00:34:14] Science job posting. Harpreet: [00:34:15] And a lot of us will say, What is that? Oh yeah, but yeah, so what are these NLP presuppositions? And I guess, what do they mean in the context of your secure methodology? Christian: [00:34:27] So the NLP NLP Harpreet: [00:34:29] Presuppositions presuppositions Christian: [00:34:30] Are just a set of beliefs that I think are very useful when looking at your own life and interacting with others. And that's really all they are is a guiding set of beliefs that are based on a lot of research and study of human behavior. Harpreet: [00:34:46] And so you talk about 14 of them in your book. Harpreet: [00:34:49] I was just curious if if these are like Harpreet: [00:34:51] Custom presuppositions that fit your methodology Harpreet: [00:34:54] Or are these like the the Harpreet: [00:34:56] 14 NLP presuppositions? Christian: [00:34:59] Good question. These are the 14 in NLP. Some some NLP institutions have have like 16 presuppositions. I'm a certified PE practitioner and when I went through my training, which is one of the accredited training, the 14 I discussed in the book are the 14 we covered in the course of my training. Harpreet: [00:35:20] So we talk about it with respect Harpreet: [00:35:21] To like the communication part of the security framework. What are your top two? Harpreet: [00:35:27] Favorite presuppositions for that communication part. Yeah. In the book, I tie Christian: [00:35:34] The NLP presuppositions to each step in the secure methodology for communication. The primary one is that the meaning of communication is the response Harpreet: [00:35:45] You get, and I mentioned Christian: [00:35:47] This a little bit earlier, but a lot going. For example, in the book, you know, as in Harpreet: [00:35:51] Italy, and there was a Christian: [00:35:54] For some reason, it's always sticks out in my mind. There's an American try to order an Italian from an Italian and an ice cream with these certain [00:36:00] flavors, and the American just kept raising his voice, saying the same thing just louder and louder. Louder. And the Italian was not understanding. Harpreet: [00:36:09] So that is Christian: [00:36:10] The example of you're not getting the response you want, so you need to change how you communicate. So that's one of them. Another one is, I would say, the map is not the territory. Harpreet: [00:36:22] A lot of people, when they're describing something Christian: [00:36:25] That you may see as well, they're going to have their own map in their head and describe it differently than you would describe it. So to have the awareness of that, when you're talking to somebody about a problem, about a solution or about a conversation, they're going to describe it based on their own map Harpreet: [00:36:45] Of the world and their model of the world. Christian: [00:36:47] And yours may be completely different. So you need to like, take you with a grain of salt and understand like they're filtering the information they're giving to you. It's not the actual information. And this has been shown many times, like if seven people witness a car accident and you ask all seven people what happened, even though the accident is a, you know, something that happened factually, that's like the territory everyone's map of what happened is going to be different. Harpreet: [00:37:09] All this talk about travel and maps. First of all, it's make me miss, miss all the travel and stuff since you're over here on lockdown. But at the beginning of this entire COVID crazy COVID thing that we're living through right now, you actually I you were in Ireland and you decided not to travel ended up staying in Ireland for an extended amount of time, right? It was like two or three months or, you know, some extended length of time, right? That must have been a situation where, I mean, you probably had to use a secure methodology in that in that framework, right? Like having to be stranded in another country. Not sure what's going on with the world? Which part of your secure framework do you think really helped Harpreet: [00:37:50] You through that, that part of your life? Christian: [00:37:52] Probably all of it. Yeah, I went to Ireland like I flew to Ireland the day Harpreet: [00:37:57] Before the U.S. Christian: [00:37:59] Closed their borders [00:38:00] because of COVID is like March of 2020, right when COVID started happening. And I had the choice like immediately after I landed. Harpreet: [00:38:08] You know, I Christian: [00:38:09] Needed to leave the next day or figure out what to do and stay there without knowing when the borders would open back up or anything. So I decided to stay there. And I guess from what step? There's a couple of steps, you know, right? Is the mindset is one of them. You know, I have a growth mindset and Kaizen is probably another step. I just figured this is a step I'll take and I'll figure it out as I go right? Because there's no perfect solution for anything. We always a lot of us like to seek, you know, when making a decision, we want to make the perfect decision. But a lot of times it's just making the decision and and then figuring things out. And that's where Kaizen comes into play. And for me, I try to have three categories for decisions. I try to have a hell, no, maybe and a hell yes decision. And I try to keep things out of them. Maybe, just maybe category, because I feel like if something's in a baby category, it just taking up mental space and fogging up your brain. So you need to like move it to like no or yes, basically. So like with me, I was in the maybe category for a little bit, but I just decided on that. Going back home or staying in Ireland, I decided to. Hell, yes, I'm going to stay in Ireland. I move to that category. And that was a decision. Like, OK, I'll I'll figure this out because I have made the decision to figure it out Harpreet: [00:39:24] And added, I thought that was so crazy. Like, you had a very, very interesting life and I enjoyed reading a lot about you. Got so many cool stories in the book, man, you guys check it out. Like I mentioned, it's not audible as well, if that's your thing. But let's let's talk about multitasking now. Well, mostly because it's the thing that I struggle with the most. So it was my favorite part of the book. I just because what you know, it's Harpreet: [00:39:45] Been been a struggle for me recently. Harpreet: [00:39:47] So. So talk to us. What? What is mono tasking? Christian: [00:39:51] Yeah. So mono tasking is doing one thing Harpreet: [00:39:54] At a time, not just doing one thing like permanently, Christian: [00:39:57] But doing one thing for a block of time. [00:40:00] For me, with mono tasking, I typically break up my Harpreet: [00:40:03] Day where Christian: [00:40:04] I will only check email during a certain hour. Then I'll do something else for a different hour. Then I'll work on another project for an hour, then I'll do a podcast for an hour or whatever. But that's all I do during that time frame. And what a lot of us do is multitasking, which is not efficient because when you multitask, you have to do a lot of context switching. So if you're trying to write. Write a report and check your email at the same time your brain has to switch back and forth the whole time so you get an email. You respond to it, then you go back to the report. Some of the stuff for email, the report, you know, it's like your brain is inefficient every time it switches subjects. Harpreet: [00:40:43] So it's better Christian: [00:40:44] To mono task and take like for an hour block or 50 minute block, whatever works for you and just work out one thing at a time. A lot of people think they'll be less productive by mono tasking, but once they actually do it, they realize their productivity Harpreet: [00:40:58] Goes up Christian: [00:41:00] Tremendously, and it also helps with Harpreet: [00:41:02] Presence. Christian: [00:41:03] We talk about communication, but if I am multitasking, like if I'm on my phone, if I'm texting somebody while we're at dinner, then I'm not listening to you and it's not going to help my relationship. So monotone tasking like being present with somebody is extremely important as well. Harpreet: [00:41:18] Yeah, that means I struggle with that time spent like, I'll be working on something, then I'll just get this nagging itch to go. Let me go, check my email and go check LinkedIn. And it's really, really tough to to fight that off. So I'm interested in getting into some of the NLP presuppositions. But before I do that, I know you're talking about how you time block and chunk your day out. You talk about how you use the Bouchard's high performance calendar. Yeah, which I tried to use. I used it for a while, but it just felt to kind of Harpreet: [00:41:46] Like a just too Harpreet: [00:41:47] Restrictive for me, like using maybe for like three months. And then I was just like, You know what, this this thing isn't the right fit for me, and I switch to something that's more relaxed where it's not necessarily time boxing the the day. It's [00:42:00] just he's the four or five things that I want to accomplish today. Yeah. And I found that's been a little bit more helpful for me, but I admire you for being able to do that. Harp for his calendar man. That thing is demanding. Christian: [00:42:13] Well, I'm not perfect. There's some days that I'll do it, but yeah, I try to do it every day. What I've noticed, though, if I fall off of doing the calendar and Harpreet: [00:42:20] Doing the the time blocks, one of the good things about Christian: [00:42:24] The high performance planner is every week you evaluate where you are in certain categories. Harpreet: [00:42:30] If I have Christian: [00:42:30] Fallen off Harpreet: [00:42:31] On my Christian: [00:42:32] Morning routine in the time blocks, I noticed my scores drop in my categories, so it's a good indicator that something is awry there. Harpreet: [00:42:42] Yeah, yeah, I've started using this. This thing called the six minute journal. That's been helpful as well, and it does like a monthly check, which is similar to Harpreet: [00:42:49] To that high performance Harpreet: [00:42:52] Planted thing. But yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it's quite nice. Harpreet: [00:42:55] I have the Christian: [00:42:56] Five minute journal. Harpreet: [00:42:57] Yeah, in Canada, I don't know what what it was. It was impossible to to find that on Amazon in Canada. So at the one minute extra, I guess members might like it. Harpreet: [00:43:07] But yeah, OK, so so for the people out Harpreet: [00:43:09] There like me who struggle with this multitasking because we know it's good for us, we know it's Harpreet: [00:43:14] Going to help us move whatever Harpreet: [00:43:16] We're doing forward. What are some of the NLP presuppositions that we can use to remind ourselves that it is time to get down to to multitasking? Christian: [00:43:25] There's a couple. One of them would be that people are not their behaviors. We all I think a lot of us think our identity is tied to our behavior. Our behavior is something we do. So we have the ability to change our behavior. And then the other one is, I would say, that people have all the resources they need to succeed and achieve their desired outcomes. We all I'm a believer that we all know what to do. We just have some sort of trauma or limiting belief, or we've been conditioned by our education system or by parents or whatever to do to do things [00:44:00] a certain way, but are uniqueness in our authenticity? Is there a need several layers? Harpreet: [00:44:05] So, you know, Christian: [00:44:06] Multitasking Harpreet: [00:44:07] May not be the best thing for Christian: [00:44:08] For you or for other people. But you know, what works for you is just a matter of revealing that Harpreet: [00:44:14] In a way that is serving for you. Harpreet: [00:44:16] Do you have any tips that can help us kind of figure out how we can reveal that to ourselves to to figure out, you know, what's going to work best for us? Christian: [00:44:23] I think the on a specific topic, the seven levels deep exercise, I talk about that a little bit Harpreet: [00:44:29] Is a good tip Christian: [00:44:31] Because often we we think we should do something, but we don't really understand the underlying reason. And going through like the seven levels, deep exercise will help you reveal the underlying reason because sometimes the reason we we give up on a task or a new behavior or a workout or mono tasking or whatever is because we don't really understand why we want to do it. We're not tied to the why or emotionally. We don't have a big enough emotional reason to do something because it really boils down to emotion if we just want to do something in our head. But we don't have the emotional wherewithal or understanding why we want to do it, Harpreet: [00:45:09] Then we're going to find reasons Christian: [00:45:10] Not to do it, basically. Harpreet: [00:45:12] So let's talk about Kaizen. So this continuous improvement continuously getting better. I'm definitely a huge fan of that. Harpreet: [00:45:21] But before we get into that, like I like, I love these these Harpreet: [00:45:23] Presuppositions that that you use and how you tie them to. Two different aspects of the secure model. What are a couple of the Harpreet: [00:45:30] Presuppositions that we Harpreet: [00:45:32] Should have in mind for the Harpreet: [00:45:34] Kaisen? One of the main Christian: [00:45:35] Ones is there is no failure, there's only feedback. So with Kaizen, we're not failing at something. We're learning what didn't work so we can improve it. Harpreet: [00:45:46] That's the main Christian: [00:45:46] One. And the other one is probably the same concept that people are not their behaviors. If we've been doing something forever, that does not mean that's our identity. We have the ability to to shift that, and it may take a journey and continuous [00:46:00] practice and continuous improvement. And I go over an example in the book. I think with Tiger Woods, for instance, you know, one of his behaviors was the way he did his his chipping movement with the golf. I'm not a golfer certainly know these terms too well, but he he he used to do it a certain way. But it was it Harpreet: [00:46:18] Was only got Christian: [00:46:19] Him so far. So he had to unlearn how we did it and relearn how to do it in a different manner to improve. Harpreet: [00:46:25] And that was because Christian: [00:46:27] He realized that this behavior I do of how I do this is not really me. That's just something I've learned, and I can learn a different way of doing it. I just need to take the first step. Harpreet: [00:46:36] Absolutely love that. And you talk about the Harpreet: [00:46:38] Four four phases Harpreet: [00:46:40] Of Kaizen. Can you walk us through that? Christian: [00:46:42] Yeah, the continuous improvement cycle. There's a Harpreet: [00:46:45] Four main phases Christian: [00:46:46] For that. There's a identify something you want to improve, and typically you want to figure out what the root issue is. You want to improve, devise a plan for that, execute the plan and then review to see if it works. So it's like a circle, right? You want to figure out if I want to lose weight, for instance. That's what I identified. I may change my diet. So the plan might be I'm only going to eat fruit before noon, for instance, and then you decide to execute it. So I'm going to execute this for 30 days. This plan after 30 days. I'll see if I actually lost weight or my BMI changed or whatever. And if it didn't change, then you may need to come up with a new plan, so you need to have that constant feedback there. A lot of people won't look at the feedback. They'll start something and it doesn't work, Harpreet: [00:47:31] And then they won't tweak it and Christian: [00:47:33] Do the next thing. They'll just say, Well, that didn't work and give up, basically. Harpreet: [00:47:35] But that's that's like Christian: [00:47:36] Being a dabbler versus a master, and I cover that in the book as well. Harpreet: [00:47:40] Yeah, let's get into that and let's talk about this, this dabbler versus versus master. Because I mean, I feel like everyone kind of has that inner drive to want to be masterful and exhibit mastery in whatever it is that they do so. So, yeah, talk to us about Harpreet: [00:47:53] Dabblers and masters and how can we Harpreet: [00:47:55] Maybe become masters? Christian: [00:47:56] Yeah. So a dabbler is someone that, Harpreet: [00:47:59] Like with [00:48:00] a diet Christian: [00:48:00] I was talking about as soon as it doesn't work, they'll give up and they'll just go back to their normal routine. And that is not practicing. Chi Zen Chi's in is where Harpreet: [00:48:10] If this didn't work, Christian: [00:48:11] You'll try something else. And if that didn't work, you'll try something else. But you keep figuring it out, basically, because the journey to mastery is going to have some peaks and valleys. And what typically happens is people may see some initial improvement, like with a diet, they may lose a few pounds and then all of a sudden, so they improve. But then they start gaining weight so they get worse. And then they'll just give up Harpreet: [00:48:34] Versus say, Oh, well, this Christian: [00:48:36] Worked a little bit. I just need to tweak this part here. And then eventually you'll start mastering things, but it takes you getting to those valleys, and a lot of people give up as soon as something gets hard. And those are the dabblers. Harpreet: [00:48:47] Yes, kind of. Like, I think Seth Godin talks about something in his book The Dip, but that's like that valley. And that book is about knowing when to quit. It's about knowing when to stick through it and when to actually push through with that. Christian: [00:49:00] Yeah. Yeah, very, very similar concept. Yes. Yeah. Harpreet: [00:49:02] So I mean, it sounds like some of these steps that we've talked about in the secure methodology and through the NLP suppositions like that kind of meant to reprogram our wet, so to speak, Harpreet: [00:49:13] Reprogram our brains. Harpreet: [00:49:15] So talk to us about how this methodology Harpreet: [00:49:17] Actually does that. It's actually Harpreet: [00:49:20] It actually rewires our wedge where Harpreet: [00:49:22] It does that by Christian: [00:49:24] Those neural pathways, right? So a lot of our behaviors are those programs Harpreet: [00:49:31] That just run automatically. Christian: [00:49:32] It's a strong neural pathway in our in our brain and our brain has neuroplasticity, which means we can learn new neural pathways. And we talked a little bit about dabblers versus masters. One of the challenges is if we've always done something a specific way, we have a brain, has a very strong neural pathway Harpreet: [00:49:51] And we're going to just execute that. It's like Christian: [00:49:54] A superhighway. So going through the seven step methodology, Harpreet: [00:49:57] The idea is we will form [00:50:00] Christian: [00:50:00] A new neural pathway. It'll be weak at first, but the more we use it, the stronger it will get in, the easier it will be to use. And then the old neural pathway. The old Harpreet: [00:50:10] Habit will get Christian: [00:50:11] Weaker and eventually go away. Harpreet: [00:50:13] But this is not Christian: [00:50:15] An overnight thing. It takes a lot of effort. It's like lifting weights, whatever. If you're if you want your muscle in your arm to get bigger, it's not going to get bigger overnight. It takes a lot of effort, right? And it's the same thing we are. A lot of a lot of us just think are our traits are fixed. We are the way we are, but we can actually, like you said, the wet, where we can rewire our brain if we do it intentionally. And there's a lot of exercises I cover in the book that basically result in you reprograming your brain to achieve different results. You've gotten so far. Harpreet: [00:50:46] Yeah, there's a lot of great, lots of great exercises in that Harpreet: [00:50:49] Book, so there's definitely check it out. So let's Harpreet: [00:50:52] Have the last formal question before Harpreet: [00:50:54] Going into the random round. Harpreet: [00:50:56] All right, it is. It is one hundred years in the future. What do you want to be remembered for? Harpreet: [00:51:02] A few things. Christian: [00:51:02] One I want you to remember for as someone that went for it, that did not play small. Somebody that stood for my convictions lived passionately and I would say left people in a better state than after I encountered them than before. Harpreet: [00:51:21] Yeah, man, absolutely love that. That's very beautifully put, and I'm definitely left in a better state after reading your book. Christian: [00:51:27] Oh, awesome. I appreciate Harpreet: [00:51:28] That. You have helped me, which which is why this episode sounded kind of like a therapy session for me. I feel like, but it helped. So let's jump into Harpreet: [00:51:37] The random round. When do you Harpreet: [00:51:38] Think the first video to hit one trillion views on YouTube will happen and what will it be about? Christian: [00:51:44] I think it'll happen in twenty twenty five and it might be Gangnam Style. I think that was the first video Harpreet: [00:51:52] To hit a billion views. Yeah, yeah. Harpreet: [00:51:54] Yeah, yeah. All right. Christian: [00:51:56] Or new or something similar to that, I'll probably be some silly music video. [00:52:00] Harpreet: [00:52:00] Yeah. Currently, it's like Baby Shark. It's Oh, is it OK? Kingsley probably nine billion by now, but yeah, so you're probably right Harpreet: [00:52:08] On track there. Some silly Harpreet: [00:52:10] Stuff. What do most people think within the first few seconds of meeting you for the first time? Christian: [00:52:17] Most people think I look like Dolph Lundgren from Rocky four. That's what most people tell me. Harpreet: [00:52:24] Yeah, yeah, I see it now. Yes, a lot of young people in the audience will have to go and google that one. That's true. That's true. It's spot on. So I know you are Harpreet: [00:52:36] A avid Harpreet: [00:52:37] Reader. I mean, a lot of the books that you referenced in your book, I read myself. So what are you currently reading? Christian: [00:52:43] I just finished listening Harpreet: [00:52:44] To finding ultra Christian: [00:52:46] By Rich Roll, which is which is Harpreet: [00:52:48] Awesome. Christian: [00:52:49] It's about his personal transformation and how he achieved that by changing his diet to a plant based diet and doing some ultra distance events. That whole transformation and letting the ego go and ultimately surrendering because you don't get so far with your self-reliance, at some point you have to surrender to something greater. That was one of the messages in the book, which is great, and I started listening to Loving What is by Byron Katie. That's a book I've listened to before. It asked you for questions in there, called the inquiry, and it's very useful from a personal development point of view in dealing with people. Harpreet: [00:53:24] Definitely have to check both those out. Yeah, have a like a listen to episodes of Ritualist podcast, but I haven't. I haven't really dug too much into his writing or his work, so I definitely have to check that one out as well. What song do you currently have on repeat? Christian: [00:53:38] I currently have lettuce Harpreet: [00:53:40] Burn by within to within Christian: [00:53:42] Temptation on repeat. I like to listen that song when I work out. I listen to it this morning, actually. Harpreet: [00:53:47] All right, I'm definitely going to check that one. Christian: [00:53:49] Yeah, it's good. Harpreet: [00:53:50] But we're going to open up the random question Harpreet: [00:53:52] Generator and we'll see Harpreet: [00:53:53] What we get from this thing. So I'm pulling it up right here. The first question? What's your [00:54:00] earliest memory? Christian: [00:54:02] My earliest memory, which is a bizarre memory as the first thing that came to mind when I saw that question for some reason I used to when I got upset with my mom or my stepfather, I used to hold my breath and pass out as a I don't know why, but I'd passed out in the yard and and I always have these like visions of the blades of grass coming back into focus. When I came to it was my mom took me to hospital and got me checked out about that stuff. It was this bizarre reaction I had to something. Harpreet: [00:54:31] So when was the last time you changed your opinion about something major? Christian: [00:54:37] The last time I changed my opinion about something major is some discussions with my partner or girlfriend about surrender versus like pushing through. I'm more of a believer. I used to be that kind of like the rich roll thing, which is interesting that the book Finding Ultra, they talk about that in there, too. I used to be a believer that Harpreet: [00:54:56] I can just push through Christian: [00:54:57] And do everything myself and it and her her belief Harpreet: [00:55:01] And rich, rich roles. Christian: [00:55:02] Belief as Harpreet: [00:55:02] Well is that that Christian: [00:55:04] Will only get you so far. At some point you have to like surrender from the perspective of giving in to something larger than yourself and trust that the outcome will be the outcome Harpreet: [00:55:13] That is the right outcome for you, Christian: [00:55:15] Not be so tied to the outcome. Harpreet: [00:55:17] Yeah, I like that. Harpreet: [00:55:18] I like that part about not being tied to the to the outcome. Christian: [00:55:21] Yeah, that's our ego. Harpreet: [00:55:22] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been reading a lot of I don't know if you've heard of a couple of Gupta, M.D. doctor, a couple of Gupta. Yeah, I've been reading in some of his books lately, and it's it's touching on some of the same stuff you're talking about there. But yeah, what's the best piece of advice you have ever received? Christian: [00:55:41] The best piece of advice I ever received is to focus on relationships and Harpreet: [00:55:46] Connections and not trying to do everything myself. Christian: [00:55:48] Like when I was a CEO of my business, an entrepreneur, I thought it was like me against the world and I thought, nobody else knows what it's like to be an entrepreneur, and that was a very lonely journey. So [00:56:00] then someone said, You know what? You don't have to. The journey doesn't have to be like that. That's your choice. There's other people you can talk to that are going through the same journey that can be your support system and you can help each other. And that's what I ended up doing is joining some peer groups and really getting some mentorship and mentoring other people as well. Harpreet: [00:56:18] Yeah. So when it comes to like mentorship, like this is something that's huge in the Data science community. Like, I get hit up all the time for people wanting me to be the mentor. And it's like, I mean, I can't take on everyone like, what's the right way going about finding a mentor in your experience? Harpreet: [00:56:33] I think you need to Christian: [00:56:35] Find someone that you're comfortable working with and having honest conversations with, you know, from a lot of people have asked me to mentor them, but they want to be mentored on something tactical, like how to improve your sales process. And I'm not a believer in that necessarily. I think there's plenty of books out there about that. Harpreet: [00:56:53] I think from a mentor Christian: [00:56:54] Perspective, you need to find someone that can look at you as an individual strategically and look at you as a person and help you achieve your goals and reveal what you really want to do. Because a lot of us have this idea of what we want to do, but we it's sort of been programed into us by somebody else. But I think a mentor needs to be good like a coach it asking the right questions and uncovering what you already know inside of you. I think that is important from a mentor perspective. Harpreet: [00:57:27] Do you think like the mentor mentee relationship is like, oh, a one way relationship? Or should it be kind of going both ways, like if somebody is my mentee, is it just Harpreet: [00:57:35] Me helping them? Harpreet: [00:57:37] Like should, should they should the mentee give something back to the mentor or offer to give Harpreet: [00:57:41] Something back to the mentor? Christian: [00:57:43] You know, it may not be considered it, but I think the mentor should be helping the mentee. But in my experience, when I mentor people or coach people, there's been things that they've said and things that they are, discussions that have changed my life and changed my perspective on things as well. So it may be a [00:58:00] mentor to a mentee relationship, but the mentor is certainly going to learn a lot, at least from my experience, by mentoring, you know, the mentee. Harpreet: [00:58:09] Thank you for that. Yeah. Harpreet: [00:58:10] The world next random Harpreet: [00:58:11] Question What's what's something you learned in the last Harpreet: [00:58:14] Week? Something I learned Christian: [00:58:16] In the last week was, I would say, more on the surrender and trusting perspective. The book Finding Ultra talks about Hawaii quite a bit. I've been to Hawaii a lot in the kahunas and the gods there and all that and Harpreet: [00:58:31] And Christian: [00:58:32] Trusting something bigger. I think that sort of like the way Rich Roll mentioned that Harpreet: [00:58:37] Sort of like shifted Christian: [00:58:38] Something in me based on, you know, what my girlfriend had said before and the way Rich Rolle said it combination of that coming from different angles sort of shifted what that surrender means to me because I used to think I was giving up. But it's not really giving up. It's like trusting in something more. Harpreet: [00:58:53] Yeah, man, that's deep, man. I definitely got to check out some more of that rich rule book. Do the last one from the random question. All right. Who was your favorite teacher and why? Christian: [00:59:03] My favorite teacher was in college. This was a I went to the Air Force Academy, so it was a military academy. And my favorite teacher was an army helicopter pilot, part of the Air Cavalry. He wore like these boots and a cowboy hat basically is like a uniform. But what he did is, is I forgot. I don't even know the class he Harpreet: [00:59:24] Taught, but what he did is he Christian: [00:59:26] Had us, you know, come and have a conversation with him after after class hours about life in general. And he's the only teacher that really did that. He said, What are your plans and what are you thinking about? And and here's some of the stuff you might want to be on the lookout for, but he actually you talk about a mentor mentee. He was one of the only Harpreet: [00:59:46] Teachers in college Christian: [00:59:48] That didn't just focus on like the academic subject, but focused on us as a person and made the effort to give us some life skills and mentors in that capacity, which [01:00:00] I really appreciated. Harpreet: [01:00:01] It's awesome, man. We we could all have somebody like that that in our lives. That's that's really cool, man. Harpreet: [01:00:06] Yeah. Christian man, thank Harpreet: [01:00:07] You so much for taking time. I was scheduled to come on to the show today. Let us know how can these people connect with you? Where could they find you online? Christian: [01:00:14] Yeah, they can connect with me on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place. And then go to my website. Christian Espinosa dot com. Harpreet: [01:00:22] And if they wanted to find the book, where could they find that? Christian: [01:00:24] The best place to find the book is on Amazon, and like you mentioned, the Audible version is on Audible as well Harpreet: [01:00:31] Is narrated by Caleb Christian: [01:00:33] Griffith. I didn't narrate it, and I thought he did a fantastic job. Harpreet: [01:00:36] Yeah, definitely he did. Harpreet: [01:00:37] Yeah, absolutely loved it. Christian, thank you again for coming to the show. Appreciate you being here. Christian: [01:00:41] Yeah, thanks for having me. Harp read. I really appreciate it. What?