Lillian: [00:00:00] If you're an implementation person and you love implementing, that's awesome because you don't have to do you don't have to learn the people skills, you don't have to become a leader, so on and so forth. And you can still land jobs. Like I looked at the Facebook six, it's five hundred and twenty five grand a year. And you don't have to be anything other than you are, which is, you know, like you can just do what you love doing. Harpreet: [00:00:39] What's up, everybody? Welcome to the artists Data Science podcast, the only self development podcast for Data scientists. You're going to learn from and be inspired by the people, ideas and conversations that'll encourage creativity and innovation in yourself so that you can do the same for others. I also host open office hours. You can register to attend by going to Bitly dot com forward. Slash a d. S o h. I look forward to seeing you all there. Let's ride this beat out into another awesome episode and don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a five star review. Our guest today is a Data business coach, career coach, speaker and author who helps Data professionals transform into world class leaders and Data entrepreneurs. She's earned a bachelor's of science in environmental engineering and has been a licensed professional engineer since 2013. She's the creator of five Data science courses on LinkedIn Learning and the author of four books published by Wiley and Sons, including Data AIs for Dummies. Her work [00:02:00] has gotten featured in magazines like Forbes, Fortune, National Geographic, Washington Post and dozens of other publications. And just like us, she knows what it's like to dream of using Data to make a positive, lasting impact on the world, but having to face the reality of feeling like a cog in yet another mindless moneymaking machine because she's been there before. So please help me in welcoming our guest today, a woman who has helped over one million a Data scientist learn the game and move up the ranks. Lillian Pearson, Lillian, thank you so much for taking time to come on to the show and just really, really excited to get to know you a little bit better. So where'd you grow up and what was it like there? Lillian: [00:02:48] Ok, so I grew up in I was born in Orlando, Florida, and then I grew up from like seven to 14 in Southern California and then from 14 to like twenty twenty three, twenty four in Austin. So all of these places were in the south. I guess you could say that's about the only similarity really. And there are high tech ish. There was high tech stuff going on, my stepfather. So that was part of growing up was being moving around following the tech jobs. And yeah, I would say that out of all those places, like in terms of my personality and free spiritedness, that was an influence of Austin. But in terms of like my values, because I'm pretty conservative and like family oriented and stuff, I think that more comes from like Orlando. Harpreet: [00:03:43] Yeah, Austin is a really, really awesome place, actually. I'm from California, originally born and raised in Sacramento, and I spent several years like six or seven years in Southern California as well, mostly like the Orange County area. Lillian: [00:03:56] Yeah. Whereabouts where you said, OK, [00:04:00] so I lived several years in Irvine and then we moved over to El Toro. Oh, that was kind of my little area. And it was when it was really wonderful. My my mother, she wanted to try it. She tried to keep me out of trouble by a lot by getting me a horse. And so I got into the competitive equestrian scene in California in like which is like a toilet for money. But it was so wonderful. It's like the best in the world. Yeah, it was so it was such an incredible way to grow up. And I had training all the time. So I got a lot of intense, like it was good for my personality, which is like a really pretty intense person. Harpreet: [00:04:44] And yeah, like that horse equestrian culture is pretty huge in California. Like my grandma lives in the country. It's not country anymore, but it used to be it's called Elk Grove, California, and her next door neighbor was raising horses. So they had like six, seven horses that they would raise for these equestrian. Yeah. Activities. So when you're in high school, what did you think your future would look like? Lillian: [00:05:11] Oh, gosh. Well, OK, so I did some pretty cool things in high school. I thought it was going to be a chemist by the like at the end of high school, and I did a few summers in a undergraduate research program and even in high school I did that over in Houston. And so I thought I was going to be a chemist and I liked chemistry. Harpreet: [00:05:35] How that transition happening to Data science like. So for me, because, I mean, that's not a whole lot of the Data going on in chemistry. Right? So you went from chemistry to environmental engineering, which is kind of Data. Lillian: [00:05:49] Well, yeah, they were talking. OK, so Data science came out as far as like a discipline, like a real formal discipline back in, I guess, [00:06:00] 2012, right. When I was doing chemistry hardcore in Texas, that was nineteen ninety eight. So there's that's a big gap. That's like a really big gap in chemistry though. No, I did do a lot. There is a lot of like for my research and stuff I kind of tell like this is my quote unquote origin story for working with the data analytics. I had to replace a hydrogen atom, nucleate eight different types of nucleic acids. Oh, you know, this stuff. So I'm trying to think of what they were there. You know, there's four Ariana's and then four DNA is right. So there is they're not all nucleic. Some are. Anyway, I had to replace the hydrogen atom with deuterium and I had to use organic chemistry to do it. However, I didn't know organic chemistry because I was 17 and I had an MRI machine was like six hundred megahertz. And so I could use that to see like the percentage exchange of the hydrogen atom to figure out how well I was doing. And I had a book and I could kind of just like trial and error and I did it. And so they're still using these nucleoside and nucleotide today, you know, and that was a long list. So that was my first real glimpse at, like, just how powerful data analytics could be. Because just having that intel, I didn't know anything about organic chemistry, but just the data, it was enough to help me figure out the rest. Harpreet: [00:07:30] Yeah, that's friggin awesome. Because, like, I like I know like some some family members who have gone through it, this undergraduate programs in chemistry, like organic chemistry, is always like the class they hate the most. They're just like, oh my God, OK. I'm like, this stuff is brutal. So when you're making that transition that in today's days. So what are you learning all this stuff on your own where you just like. All right, I'm interested in it. I just want to figure this stuff out because I can I can imagine. I can like that twenty times twenty thirteen. There probably wasn't an [00:08:00] ecosystem for learning like there is today. Right? Lillian: [00:08:03] There was there was literally well, there was one course. It was the Andrew name course on Coursera Data Science. And I took it with this guy. We were going to do it together. Henry Norrick, I think you know him and another guy. And but the course was not it was not like User-Friendly. It was not a night. It was kind of like a weed out course. And it made it really hard and complicated. So I didn't really I was just like, whatever. And I got some what I did instead to learn Data science is I pieced together all of the component pieces that I needed. And I asked my job, like I asked them for training on Python, for the work I was doing. And then once I knew how to script things and I asked them for training on statistics for spatial analytics. So it was like they gave me training on all of the sub topics. And then once I had it, they like there are tons of use cases, so I got to use it. But there weren't classes. And so and so that's why I really like I don't know if you know Karyl Curl's courses on you, Dimi. Harpreet: [00:09:10] Yeah. Lillian: [00:09:11] And and I have courses on LinkedIn, but he had his first in those courses. They make it like pretty straightforward. You know, you can't be I think you probably still need a STEM degree and has pretty solid background in math and in analysis. But it's not like a weed out course. Right. And it doesn't need to be that it was kind of exclusive because, like, the stuff that was out there are like really, really, really technical or kind of like just not that welcoming. Harpreet: [00:09:45] Yeah. And I think nowadays it's important to understand that actually it's yeah. Great. It's technical stuff. But at the end of the day, working for a business like you've got to make money for the business and they don't really care how fancy your models with algorithms or [00:10:00] whatever technology you're using is. They just want results, either make the money or save the money. Right. So I think that that's. Lillian: [00:10:07] Yeah. You're preaching to the choir on that one. Harpreet: [00:10:09] Yeah, I'm excited because, you know, you've covered very, very a niche that I really like that I've been wanting to to see more of happening. And we'll we'll talk about them a little bit. But I mean, somehow along the way, you move to a tropical, beautiful paradise island. Like, tell us about that. You did Lillian: [00:10:27] Your homework. Harpreet: [00:10:28] How did this happen? Like, I mean, that's so cool. Lillian: [00:10:31] Well, I had already you know, once I decided I was going to start my own business and then I built that business while I had my day job and was teaching myself Data science all at the same time. And then after a few years, I was able to qualify and get my professional engineering license. I was waiting for experience. To qualify for that, once I had taken the test, I was like out of there and I did the whole digital nomad thing for a while, but then I was single and it was just kind of like it's just it wasn't all that. It looks like it's going to be, you know, as far as and being fulfilled, it was actually kind of sad. I felt sad because I wasn't happy and I was like, you have everything you could ever want. So I gave this island to I've been here once before. It's close. It's my favorite place on Earth. And I say, OK, I'm willing to spend as much money as I would living in the States. I'll go check out this place. And it's really my last shot before I, like, moved back to United States and then I moved here. And it's just been wonderful. But I had to try out a few places that just weren't really like I was in Peru for longer than I wanted to be. Harpreet: [00:11:39] And I was it like with are you kids enjoying living there as well? And like, it must be a bit of a culture shock for them or were they born there? And they're just kind of used to just living. Yeah. Lillian: [00:11:50] My daughter I met my husband here, so that's one of the big I was already thinking of leaving because it was just being single and like traveling. The world is kind of lonely. But [00:12:00] I met him here and then we have my daughter. She was born here. So she's a third culture kid. Harpreet: [00:12:08] That's really interesting. Third culture kid. I've never heard of that terminology, but that makes so much sense. Right. So that's OK. So thank you. So what like saying there's one niche that you are covering that I think doesn't get enough recognition or I don't know that recognition that the right word. But let me rephrase it this way. There's everybody wants to talk about how to break into Data science, right? Everybody come up to Data science. And that's the people are cannibalizing that market. But there's not many people talking about, OK, great, you're in data science. Let's make you a leader now. And how do we do that? You're really focused on that with your content and your courses, what you're doing. And I think that's huge because great, everyone wants to tell us how to get into Data science, but there's nothing around telling us what we need to do to make it to the top. So talk to us a little bit about, you know, some of the career mistakes you see early Data scientists make. Lillian: [00:13:05] Yeah, I think the biggest thing is what you just discussed of thinking about thinking that the actual tech part of it is the part that's going to get you ahead. And don't get me wrong, OK, backing up. Let's just back up. OK, so because this is something that I am just coming to understand are new. Now, if you're an implementation person and you love implementing, that's awesome because you don't have to do you don't have to learn the people skills. You don't have to become a leader, so on and so forth. And you can still land jobs. Like I look at the Facebook E six, it's five hundred and twenty five grand a year and you don't have to be anything other than you are, which is like you can just do what you love doing. Right. So I used to think that it was a mistake for people to just, you know, isolate and focus [00:14:00] like so much on the technical details of everything. But now I realize that that's actually, you know, like that that path can take a person just as far as if they branch off and go into more like product and leadership and and stuff like that. It's just that if you're not satisfied with that, with the like for me, I don't want to be implementing, like doing the detailed stuff I never had. Lillian: [00:14:29] I've always been like a systems design person, someone who's looking at strategies and systems. I'm like not so much into the processes and stuff. So if that's your personality, then thinking that you have to spend, I think this is one of the big, big mistakes, thinking that you have to spend ten years, fifteen years, like hashing it out with all of the implementation details until you're good enough to become a leader and to start like leading these big projects. That is like wasting really, really valuable time because you don't have to, like, go that deep into it. Yes, you have to understand and all that. But yeah. So I would it just depends on a person, you know, someone's personality. And I really don't do much to help implementation people. Besides, OK, I've got these courses, but my focus is more in like helping people understand, like with Data science. There are so many different ways that you can create impact and transformations in businesses and people's lives. You know that implementation is one of them. Harpreet: [00:15:34] Yeah, the big one. It's that's all that resonates with me so much because I'm like, you're kind of describing the type of data scientist I am. Like, Yeah, I know the technical stuff. I could do the coding for one, but it's not like my favorite part of the job. Like I like more framing the. Make an impact for business and getting down and dirty head in the code all day like that, to me that's not like a fun day, right? To me, it's more with this strategy stuff. And [00:16:00] I've got initiative at work that I'm doing now. It's first time I've ever done anything like this. And it's like I'm a completely fish out of water. Here I am as a statistician, Data scientist. And now they're like, we need you to help us make a Data strategy for this massive organization, which is really one organization made up of like 14 other organizations. And it's just like, Lillian: [00:16:20] Oh, by the way, I've got a Data strategy action plan. I used to do technical strategies for US Navy and all this stuff, and then I did Data strategy. So by the way, I have a Data strategy action plan, which is like a step by step planner for how you do a Data strategy from the, you know, all the way you so that you don't like, miss some of the big details because you really do need to like get into go very wide into the business to see what that optimal use case is. And then you've got to like find like all of the potential problems. So there's a lot to consider. But yeah, strategy is fun, man. I wish I wish I had more time to do projects like that. Harpreet: [00:16:59] It's so it's hard to write because it's so it's nebulous in the sense I think I feel like I'm brand new to it. I'm definitely going to be looking for your Data strategy guide and I'll be sure to link out to that, to show notes. But for me, it's like I'm putting together notes from like I got this book, Modern Data Strategy. I've got another book. I've got Data management tool kit. And I'm like, I'm reading all these books and just trying to see what other people are doing. And still it's like, man, like this is it's tough. It's not easy because nobody, really nobody. This is not something that you can be taught. Like you can't be taught how to create a Data strategy, but you can learn how to do it and you're learning how to do it by putting yourself through the gantlet. Does that make sense? Lillian: [00:17:40] Yeah, I would say that you can be taught there is because I teach I don't teach that because I don't have a course on that. But I have that product I'm telling you about, which is literally step by step. And then it comes with the use cases and it comes with all of the tools, like the tools that you would need within each of the steps and stuff like that. So can it [00:18:00] be taught? Yeah, strategy can be taught. And let me tell you. Yeah. Strategy because like so this is what Deloitte and McKinsey and all these guys are doing. And it's I am sure there are classes for it. I learn strategy. I learned how to do technical strategy as an engineer because we are a consulting engineering firm and it was a small company. So I had to learn, you know, just the process. But yeah, I can totally be taught. Harpreet: [00:18:34] And can can we get like a high level overview, let's say, for the maybe the the the single most important thing to what the mindset to adopt when we're creating a Data strategy? What would you say that is when we're starting out and they're like, hey, we need to think. Lillian: [00:18:52] Yeah. Yeah. So you probably heard this already, but you want to identify a quick win so it might have a Facebook Data strategy club. I kind of pulled people. What's a quick win? Well, something that's actually increasing profits either by saving money or creating new revenues within three months would be a quick win. So don't like do the whole kit and caboodle, like the big showy thing that everyone's like, oh, we want to be so fancy, do the one that do the use case that's practical and is going to get you the biggest bang for your buck in that short amount of time and implement it in a small unit. And that's going to then in a small business unit, that is once you have that small success, you can look at it and make sure you decide, OK, do we want to take this effort and scale it across the company or do we want to add a different use case, another use case on [00:20:00] top of this? Do we want to experiment with a different use case? But once you get success in that with the quick when you're going to get the buy in of managers, once they see that it's not going to be a waste of money and time, that's going to help a lot. That's the biggest thing, because a lot that I mean, strategy is so essential. It's like anyway, I could go on and on. Harpreet: [00:20:23] Oh, like I'd love to love to have you go on about it, because this is like something that I'm so into now because it's such an essential part of my job now. And I'm just like a sponge willing to learn anything so happy. Happy. Lillian: [00:20:38] You want me to share my framework with you. Harpreet: [00:20:40] Yeah, that would be awesome. If you can give share. Lillian: [00:20:44] Yeah, of course. OK, so you what I call this the start framework and it's forever green Data strategies. This framework works for all types of Data strategies though, not just evergreen. So the first stage of any Data strategy plan building information should be surveying the industry, looking around at all of the use cases in case studies and what's happening across industry to kind of see because these are the recipes, these are what's possible for you to start like first getting an idea of OK, because you already have an a basic idea of what's available to you in terms of technologies and resources and skillset. They say, OK, look around, see what are these you know, what are kind of results other companies are getting with these use cases? And you start just throwing these ideas around and collect some use cases that you think, OK, these look like they might be decent. And then you would go in to the second phase, which is taking stock, an inventory of your company as it is today. The strategic consultants like to call this current state. So you go and you got [00:22:00] to high and low through every nook and cranny. If you're doing it enterprise wide, like you sounds like you're doing, you really want to look high and low through your company and look at all types of issues and problems, things that came up in the past, potential problems, you know, based based on your subject matter, expertize people problems, you got to take stock of like what skill sets do we have on hand? Because these play a part in when you pick a use case, the skill sets you need to you probably don't unless you have a ton of budget, you're going to have to skill some trained, some people up. Lillian: [00:22:43] So you have to know what skill sets you're working with in terms of what a people around in the business have. I mean, there's just like so I've got a whole laundry list of things you have to go through. And then you get all of this documentation, how to do interviews, surveys. You just, you know, the whole kitchen sink, throw it all in there. You get this whole stack stack of documentation and then you spend a good week or two weeks just going over it. Making sense and trying to understand, connect all the dots and then looking at the use cases and say, OK, here's what we have, here's our liabilities, here are potential wins here based on what we have and here is like. And then you have got to go and look for more use cases to like maybe more maybe the first set of use cases you've got. We're like very compatible with the technology you have now. So then you have to look closer at the cases. So can I find a use case? Can I find a case study, someone who use our technology and got this like go deeper into the tech specs and stuff like that. Lillian: [00:23:48] And after all of that, you get out like maybe. You know, I would take like three or four use cases and pit them up against one another and do an alternative [00:24:00] analysis and say, OK, well, which one of these is with all of the things I know about my company, which is no lot kind of like do like, oh, you're I love this that you're a statistician. Do I love multi criteria decision making. But you can use any sort of tool and you just pick your use case and then you got to go into the actual planned building and that is going to be like everything from beginning to end, unlike from cradle to grave. How do we implement this? What? No one. The what are the metric like? What are the success metrics like? What do we expect in three weeks? You've got to like really map those out your milestones because you need to be able to make sure that you're on target. And if you're not to adjust, then you can. After all of that and the planning and then the reference architecture and all of that, you have to kind of know a bit about Data engineering as well. Then you can make a plan and and implement it then you know what I'm saying. So that is my blog. That's that's a big nutshell. Harpreet: [00:25:05] But so that's so, so helpful to me, especially because I'm in this phase right now where I'm doing the questions phase and the questions is like that's challenging to come up with questions because I don't I don't know exactly what answer I'm trying to get out of. My question is like I'm asking questions to try to figure out what are some business drivers, what are some pain points that the organization is facing. And it's hard to come up with the right phrasing for a question because you don't want just a question that will give either yes or no or a one word answer is you want to ask questions that encourage some type of dialog race. You can get more information from your stakeholders. Lillian: [00:25:42] Are you saying for interviews or for Harpreet: [00:25:45] For for interviews with, like executive stakeholders to OK to kind of figure out what their needs come up with an adequate strategy? Lillian: [00:25:55] Yeah. Yeah. So so you already know who you already know that like. [00:26:00] Yeah. Just take its time. There's so many different people that you really if it's just for them like say you're building them a dashboard, a decision making dashboard or something, then it's a little easier because you don't have to take into account like multiple users. But it does sound like you're doing many different divisions and they are just one set of stakeholders, which is another thing you have to account for when you're planning is like your UI design. You've got to design different aspects of your you I for a different you've got to educate people like, you know, in terms of like how to eat, not only how to use. There's so much. Harpreet: [00:26:33] Yeah, I know, but that's why it's it's so it's fun and it's, it's exciting and it's just like a daunting task, the strategy stuff which which I am. But it's it's fun. I know I could I could do it. And I think it's something that Data scientists should start to move towards if they want to get to like that chief level. Right. Do you think that's kind of what we Lillian: [00:26:52] Have for sure. For sure. Like, yeah, if you're a data scientist and you know, you don't want to do implementation details, then there and you're looking for your next path forward. There are really two things you can do. You can work doing what you like to get higher up in terms of the totem pole that you're looking for, then you need to go more into strategy and leadership and project management or product management sort of things, or you start your own business, which is what I did. Harpreet: [00:27:23] Yeah. So I mean, and that's kind of like the highest form of leverage, right. Is starting your own business. So talk to us about what a day in the life of a Data entrepreneur is like. Lillian: [00:27:34] Well. It's just like any well well, actually, with covid now, it's not much different, I don't think, than a day in the life is really variable. In what season in the business where we're at. So just like anything else, there's going to be times where you a period of exertion, right? I'm in one of those right now and it's not that easy, but I'm doing a lot of self care [00:28:00] to, like, feel good and still enjoy life. I feel like I fit and I feel like I belong so much more now, like with the covid and having, like, this lifestyle, I have like I feel like everyone is now in my boat. It's not as much of like you're the black sheep, but it's just like anything else. So right now we're in extreme I'm under extreme pressure to get just a lot of things done. So I've turned everything over to my business, basically over to my integrator. And I've got a lot of team members helping and I just get done what I can. Right. So that's going up the hill. I am building momentum. I am pushing this thing up the hill. And then after it gets up the hill, I'm in a chip, you know, and we probably get some restored and who knows, maybe travel. That's what we do, which like whatever. And it's going to roll down the hill. And I'm I get a letter or words from all of this friggin hard work, and it's going to be like, yeah, living the dream, so on and so forth. And then it's going to kind of slow down a little bit and that's going to be fine. But then it's going to feel boring and stagnant and like I need to grow more. So then I'm going to start again pushing harder and harder and harder and pushing it back up the hill. So like it's just been like that for many years now. Harpreet: [00:29:23] [00:30:00] Lillian: [00:30:42] Totally. I can talk about that. So important. The thing is, is that. There's no amount of money that anyone can throw at you that can buy back. By your happiness, right, you've got like first and foremost, you've got to feel happy in what you're doing because the money, once you have enough of it, like they can't give you enough to buy that back if you lose your happiness. So. What I do is I just always pay attention to how I feel and if I feel like really unhappy, I need to adjust something and I need to look at what do I need right now to feel better. And a lot of times for me, I do meditation sometimes in the morning, I've got to mind set course thing that I listen to some videos, sometimes it's just when it's a really hard day, it's breaking it up and being like, OK, know, you give yourself only three things you have to do in a day. Not like 50. You know, and then like celebrate, I got one done and you check it up and then you what do you like to maybe you like to go to have a coffee, maybe you, whatever [00:32:00] it is that feels good to you, and give yourself that treat to just feel really good in the daytime and then just go back and do the one more thing. Absolutely. Harpreet: [00:32:11] And absolutely. Yeah. Because I would would I first started doing all this stuff like I a lot on my plate. I would just say, all right, this week I want to get done a hundred things and then I beat myself up because I didn't accomplish some stuff. And now it's like I'm real simple. Now I've got just I plan my week out every Sunday and I've got a little to do list, and that's great. Only four boxes every day. And that's it. Right. And, you know, something's got to move. Something's I got across because I didn't get to it. Whatever it goes, the backlog, I'll get to it another time, like the world. And how are you managing your time on a day to day basis? Do you have the tools or how? Lillian: [00:32:51] Yeah, yeah. I actually have been covering this recently with some of my nurture content. And one thing is, OK, so you got I like one thing I realized recently, you've got to treat yourself like I've got team members. Right. I've got some good ones and I don't want them to quit. So the last thing I want to do is overwhelm that with a bunch of stuff, make them unhappy and want to quit. But do I do that to myself? Oh, no. I want to give myself 50 things. I want to write the book, update the course, manage ten team members, create YouTube videos like Lilyan needs to just fucking do it. I'm not that nice to myself, like by nature. But then I end up feeling like and as an entrepreneur, it's really dumb because it's like I'm a slave to my own vision when I'm living like that. I'm a slave to myself, so a few weeks ago, I set up a whole Gantt chart, so I managed, you know, how the project managers but then I like to get in there so I can't chart out to June all these things. And I got one week into it because I had every day planned out until June to get what [00:34:00] I needed done and that felt so oppressive I couldn't sleep at night. And I was like because the days were planned, it was like, so I got one week into it and I had pretty much like a little nervous breakdown. And I was like, I don't want to live like this, know, I don't care. Like, I really it doesn't matter. I don't want to live like this. So I turn it over to my integrator. I was like, hey, here you go. I got to focus on one thing right now, one thing at a time, which is the book, of course, the book. How I Do It. I wish I could show you. I could show you, actually. But I do this thing where we have Post-it notes, I Post-it notes here and it's on a whiteboard and there's only so many you can sit vertically like three or four Harpreet: [00:34:48] Like a combine kind of board, right. Lillian: [00:34:50] Yeah. Yeah. And then like, like this week there's like four Post-it notes are the things I got to get done this week. There's four things. It's not that overwhelming. But then when I wake up in the morning, my day is not actually planned. I know what needs to get done this week and I can lean into my heart. And I know that sounds really like Woo Woo and I'm not even focused on this thing, but lean into where do meditation lean into how I'm feeling, my creative energy and what I really want to put out in the world today and pick something out of that list that feels good, because that is going to be the key. That is going to be the thing that's going to set everything on fire is if you're activated and if you're in your cells and. Rounded in your purpose while you're working, while you're eating, so I my goal is to stay in that state so I give myself a lot of leeway. Harpreet: [00:35:46] Now, I like that a not at all, because, I mean, this is the only self improvement podcast for Data. Scientists of my audience is used to mean they're special breed of audience. I think that listening to this podcast and these are the people who are trying to just become better [00:36:00] versions of themselves, not necessarily just all about the technical stuff and just want all that dirty talk, but a Lillian: [00:36:06] Wonderful day out. And this is right. This is where it's at because you want to like when you're when you're tuned in to your purpose, in your mission in this world for most of us. And once you get past the like, I want to make more money for people who need to make more money. Once you have enough money, they're like, OK, I want to have a steam. I want other people to think I'm cool so that I can get more opportunities, which then actually comes back to money. But once you've had enough of that and it's still like not making you that happy, then it's like, whoa, OK. So for me, it's like, what do I want to when I die at the end of my life, what what do I want to have like my life had been about? And for me that's like impacting, you know, like how do we. Anyway, I could really go into, like, Deep South. Harpreet: [00:36:57] Yeah, yeah, I mean, if I'm 100 percent down to go there because I'm all about this as well, like so I journal a lot every morning. I do like the the morning pages, the artist's early morning pages. I do like four different types of journalists, so I could show you them. I've got this that the artist journal right here and this is just free form every morning, three pages, just whatever's on my mind, just to write three pages straight. And then I got this other journal, which is my philosophical reflections. And this I'll just take a philosophical quote for me, it's mostly stoic philosophy and I'll just digest it and reflect on it. And then I've got a the six minute journal here, and this is cool. I don't know if you've heard of the six minute journals, but this one, it gives you a prompts. So it'll be so you do three, three entries in the morning trenches in the evening. So it'll be what am I grateful for. This is how I'll make to great a positive affirmation. And then at the end of the day, my good deed today will improve and then great things I experienced. Harpreet: [00:37:56] And this is like this. And then also another helpful like and [00:38:00] then another journal, which is just a one line journal every day. So yeah, it's hard. Writing has been very therapeutic for me, just getting stuff out of my head and just makes it so much more tranquil and calm but. One thing I like that you're talking about, because it's the thing is you have to experiment what works for you, right? You have to experiment because I was doing Brendan Bouchard's high performance calendar for a while, and that was like super rigid. Like, you have to plan out every hour, every day. And I'm like, man, that's not me. Like, I can't write. I can't have every hour of my day planned out like that. I just let me just have a few more. Right. Right. So, um, yeah, I love this. And so how did you figure out what worked for you? Like, did you have to try a lot of different things before you found a way that worked for you? Lillian: [00:38:57] I did. I tried a lot of different things. Honestly, time blocking is a yeah, I've tried a lot of different things. I've taken a lot of business coaching, so I learn different methods there. But honestly, what I figured out this thing with my whiteboard over here that works for me, I actually figured that out by working like I was looking at if I had to manage a Data team manage product. Actually, it was part of a product that I had winning with Data, which is not for sale. But I encouraged people to map out their projects, their Data projects with a white board and these little cards and put out the like, incremental steps required for project success. Say like you build a whole plan strategy for a successful project and you map it out and you put it on your office wall or behind you if you're in do meetings so that when you see what you're working on and how it actually [00:40:00] is impacting the business and the bigger picture, so you can feel like more rooted in purpose instead of in the details. And then two people will ask, like particularly business managers or anyone who is like actually interested in the bigger picture stuff is probably going to come and talk to you about that. And it's going to give you a way, a segment to start a conversation, a leadership focused conversation with them and build that relationship. So I built I had the, you know, the thing and people were doing it. And actually, I got some you know, people had some good successes, the ones that were dedicated enough to work through the whole winning the Data thing, which is way typic. But I started using that same thing in my wall here and then it actually work. So that's how I figured it out. Just like that's my thing. Harpreet: [00:40:52] I have to experiment. Right. Like you can't just think somebody is methodology going to work for you and you know, you can't beat yourself up. If you try something that doesn't work, then that's cool. You use that as a signal to figure out something else that works and sounds like you've really gone to a good, good flow of managing everything that's on your plate. And I think that's really, really awesome and admirable. One thing you talked about there was was coaching. That's something I've been trying to explore. I was talking to a friend of mine on the podcast as well. You might know him. He's on LinkedIn Jonathan Tesser. He's he's a Data guy that doesn't really post about Data. But we're talking about the loneliness of self-improvement like this, the loneliness of this journey of self development, self improvement, like it's it's it's hard work that you do mostly on your own. And thinking about getting a coach, I don't know if that's the right choice for me because I feel like I'm I feel like I've got it all figured out. But then it's sometimes like I don't know that I do have it all figured out. So how is your experience been working with the coach? What's your thoughts on that? Lillian: [00:41:53] Well, yeah, it's been a game changer, so that's yeah, this is like my bread and butter stuff now is putting [00:42:00] myself. And the reason that is, is because I went from just struggling, trying to figure out everything all on my own, because I'm, quote unquote smart to working with I've worked with a lot of different coaches and just like overnight, just pick out overnight things improving for my business to the point, like just it's just incredible how much it's helped me in terms of. Working with a business coaches now some of my business coaches talked about mind set, but the thing that I really like is business coaching. Some of them have been more mind set focused than others. And I tend to gravitate towards that because I really like the money's great and I want to build a really incredible business. Right. But I'm not at the cost of happiness and freedom. And so I gravitate towards people who have a really strong mindset practice and are also business coaches, but for you, what so are you looking like maybe you need a mindset, coach? Harpreet: [00:43:07] Yeah, I've got a bunch of mentors from distance enough, like from a distance, and I've enrolled in a bunch of courses that impact their university is the big one. I'm a huge Tom Billu fan and he's got this platform that's business coaching and mindset coaching. But it's not like one on one coaching, it's just modules I get put out in the group call every week, which is cool and I really enjoy it. Like I'm all about like, like minds. Lillian: [00:43:29] Are you doing that. Harpreet: [00:43:30] Yeah. Yeah. This is my. So you have Lillian: [00:43:32] A coach already you're saying because it's not one on one. Harpreet: [00:43:35] Yeah. Yeah. I've got a bunch of people that I watch from a distance. Right. Like, like Tom because they've already got there's another huge mentor of mine, James Altucher, who I got to interview for my show. So we have some people from a distance that I watch. But but I, I don't really have anybody to talk to about the self development or self-improvement journey with me. I started talking to people about it. They're just looking at me like, dude, like, just [00:44:00] shut up and you could be a man. Let's just Lillian: [00:44:02] Talk about. Yeah, yeah, I get it. So I totally get it. And I'm in the same boat. So what I would tell you is if you want to work one on one with people, I hired someone who's like this woman, I worked one on one with her. She's amazing. As for what she does, she's amazing. But as a business coach, even though she can grow an incredible business, I actually lost a lot of time and made some missteps that I wouldn't have made because I hired her and she wasn't really a business coach, but she said she would do the coaching. So what I would say is. You want to have a mentor that is really that's focused on whatever it is like, if you're looking for minds at a career business, you want to have someone that's actually about us, that actually that is their bread and butter right now. The other thing is that business, like good ones, like my business coaches, too, is two thousand dollars an hour when I signed up and not even an hour, 40 minutes. And now I think that's five grand. So like, yes, yes. This person absolutely knows we're talking about. But I can't afford you know, I'm not I'm not making enough money to be able to afford to be in that accelerator. When I am. I would probably join. But the advice I've heard is you want to. Higher. Find a mentor or a coach that's two steps ahead of you, then also make sure you find a mentor or coach that's only one step ahead of you. And then. Find someone that is about your same level. Kind of like a business bestie that you can talk to about where you're at and then everyone else just try to focus on those few people, not like drink the ocean by, like, go in [00:46:00] so many different places. But just like those few people, there's two people, you know, and hopefully they're in the same kind of on the same path. So it's just helping grow you in that direction further. Harpreet: [00:46:13] That's really, really helpful. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I know you take a lot away from that as well. So, no, we're running up on time. Just a few minutes here. Just a couple more questions and we'll get into what I like to call the random round, which is a lot of fun, Wolf. And a random question, generator and stuff. It'll be it'll be a blast. But I was wondering if you could speak to your experience being a woman in Data and if you have any words or advice of encouragement for the women in the audience who are breaking into or currently in Data. Lillian: [00:46:43] That's really nice. I haven't had a job in a long time, haven't worked in an employment as an employee, but I feel like women are pretty well represented in Data these days. Maybe not. What I would say right now, though, and this goes for men to the thing is, is I know there's like issues with being a woman in tech and I've had my share of sexism and bias and like issues going on. But I tell you what, it's not all coming from men. It's also coming from other women. So it's really hard to break things down on a gender basis. I would say that females can be catty, females can be competitive just like men. And if you want to really come up and feel safe and feel not nurtured and feel good in your day to day life, then surround yourself with people that are collaborative, that are looking to inspire and motivate and just like really focus on the positive. Because unless you want to be, which I think if you're listening to this, you don't want to be around super competitive people. There's a whole other camp of people which I forget. I can't believe they still exist. But of course, it's a personality type that just want to cut each other down. And [00:48:00] you're never for me. If you're like me, you're not going to ever feel comfortable or safe. Or like you can express your creative self, which is important around those type of people, so, like, you just have to draw boundaries and it doesn't matter. Like women are like this, but so are men. So it's like I don't really feel like that really matters. Harpreet: [00:48:23] Yeah, they play positive some games, right. Like you don't want to play the status game. The status game is the absolute worst type of game that you can play because for your status to go up, somebody else's status has to go down, which intrinsically doesn't sound like a fun game to play. But if we can play games for creating more for each other, that's that's that's a waiting game. Sorry, you Lillian: [00:48:43] Know. Yeah, I'm with you on that. And the thing is, is that this what you were saying with someone's Data is going up in another person. That's all in the eyes of the beholder, that who's the judge uses your life and you're the one who gets to take your talents and your passions and create the impact that you want to. And there is no better than less than like I remove myself from my game completely. And I really don't like to like I try and keep myself in. It's hard with social media not to compare, not to be like I wish I was better, you know, seeing all these people. But it's like that is ego, right? And that is not where I want to like that's not the magic for me. That's not where the magic is going to come from. Harpreet: [00:49:27] The one hundred percent agree with you. Yeah. Like, I just fundamentally don't want to play any status games. And like you said, it is all also a mental game that you're playing. But, you know, your entire life is to the single person game that you're playing, so much will make the best of it. So last question then will go into a real fun random round. It's one hundred years in the future. What do you want to be remembered for? Lillian: [00:49:54] I want to be remembered for helping people, inspiring people and motivating people to be [00:50:00] brave and to step out into their own vision of what they want to create in this world with a Data business that they are giving people like I want to be remembered that like I set a precedent that like something beyond the status quo is possible for you and that. Some people were positively impacted by that. Harpreet: [00:50:24] Absolutely love it. I definitely think you are if you haven't achieved that already, you're well on your way there. So thank you for your contributions. So let's go ahead. Let's jump into a random round. First question here is when do you think the first video to hit one trillion views on YouTube will happen? And what's that video going to be about? Lillian: [00:50:50] I just I'm pretty new to the YouTube game. I'm not in your generation, so you're are you as ever? Harpreet: [00:50:58] I'm turning thirty eight this year, so I don't know. Well, you're thirty eight. Lillian: [00:51:02] Oh, my gosh. You're like nothing. OK, we're pretty much the same. Yeah. You is very ok. Harpreet: [00:51:09] Believe it or not, I do like my beard like I did because otherwise it's just like, it's just like super white right here in the middle of like Spidy all a little bit like until everything is white then I'm just on a diet. Lillian: [00:51:22] Yeah. The white look is really cool. Yeah. When it gets. How many is the maximum video of usage today? Harpreet: [00:51:31] Yeah, so for reference, the most viewed video on YouTube is currently baby shark with eight and a half billion views. And then right after that, it is Justin Bieber's Esposito. Lillian: [00:51:50] Ok, so I'm going to say at this rate, it's probably going to be something like I mean, that's a big gap, eight million to [00:52:00] a trillion, I think like two thousand and fifty two. And I think it's going to be something that's a song or entertainment that is serving young people. Mm hmm. But I think by then, I don't think that people will be by the time that comes, I don't know. The people will be consumed consuming on YouTube. I think that by then it's going to be the R r in like holograph expe like immersion experiences. I don't know that you will ever get there. Harpreet: [00:52:32] Yeah, it's a very interesting thing to think about, like. Just because it's it's been around for so long, we just assume that it's going to be around forever. But yeah, the future can be really different. Like, yeah, that's Lillian: [00:52:46] Because they're coming out. I mean, you know, Facebook bought Oculus and they're creating the thing where you can go to meetings is a hologram. So that's the next thing they're building is immersive experience where like you and I can have our podcast, like literally in the same virtual war room seeing each other. So I think by then, I don't think they're going to hit one trillion because people are going to have better options. Harpreet: [00:53:11] I like that now. Thank you so much. That's a great perspective. Give me something to think about. So what are you currently reading? Lillian: [00:53:18] Should I jump around and I never finish one book? Unfortunately, it takes discipline and I'm not a person, but I really love the product managers. Sacred seven. That's my favorite book right now. Yeah, it's a book on product management, it's amazing. Harpreet: [00:53:37] Actually, I'm definitely going to add that to the list by any book that I get recommended. I I've got like hundreds of books laying around the house. Lillian: [00:53:46] Really. I love reading. It's hard because it's like you read a lot. Harpreet: [00:53:50] A ton. Like I have a lot of authors on the podcast and I read their books entirety. I listen to the podcast and I just get really nitty gritty with my questions, [00:54:00] just that I think that's kind of, you know, separates what I do from the other Data science podcast. But I also like you Harp around with multiple books like for example, I have a weekly reading list this week and it is and you know, I don't really care if I finish books or not either. Like, I just to me, I just I want ideas in my head and I want them to collide with the other ideas in my head to produce new ideas. So it doesn't matter if I finish a book or not as long as I've learned something new from it. But currently I've got work on the side of the head, which is all about how to be more creative. I've got that sounds fun. It's really, really good book. I highly recommend it. Lillian: [00:54:33] Sure. A really, really good because I sit around after I'm not working. The thing I'm really sad about right now lately is that when I don't have to work, I get on my friggin phone and I'm like, I don't know what to do when I'm not working, which is just not the way that I want to. That's not the person I want to be. So that book I was thinking I needed something like AIs something to stimulate, like something besides work, creative, fun. Harpreet: [00:54:57] This is it. This book is so good. It's so it's such a fun book to read as well, because there's these little thought experiments that are sprinkled throughout the book that are just really fun to do. So I highly recommend that and I won't go through my entire list. But another one that I really enjoyed is this manga guide regression analysis. So it's a comic book? Yeah, it's a comic book series. They've got a bunch of bunch of books like this one for Calculous Database's Statistics, Physics Universe. Lillian: [00:55:26] So I bought like The New Dummies Guide. Harpreet: [00:55:28] Yeah. With these are actually been around since the late 90s, early 2000s. So I just learn about them. I bought a bunch of them and I just keep it in English. It's in English, it's all in English. Lillian: [00:55:39] But they're from it's from Japan, right. Harpreet: [00:55:41] Yeah. Yes. The manga idea. Lillian: [00:55:43] And that looks Harpreet: [00:55:45] Cool. So about that, a bunch of cartoon guides to statistics, economics and math and all that stuff. So with my kid, when he's old enough to retire, what's a comic book can be like here? Read this book about this comic book about databases. You'll I'm Lillian: [00:56:01] Sorry. [00:56:00] You're really a very, very cool person. And it's like then I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope I need to after this call a follow up with you and figure out how you know, how I can be more involved in what you're creating and also just your journey as you're growing as a data scientist. Harpreet: [00:56:24] Absolutely. Lillian: [00:56:25] And actually, so I wanted to mention like AIs as not a social person being not a social person. And how do you take care of yourself and stuff like that when? You know, one of the other things that I also try and do is focus on, like, OK, this isn't about like being of service really is just like it's about being a service like me. Showing up isn't like people trying to. It's instead of like focusing on how this is Harp something, it's hard for me and difficult and like I'm shy. And all this focus on what is it that I'm here to do and how can I be of service and stuff like this podcast and your journey, like I want to support you. Not in like that is my focus. Harpreet: [00:57:11] That's what you know what I'm saying. Yeah, definitely. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. So let's do this, do a couple more fun questions and wrap it up. So I'm also really interested because I love music and I always like listening to music. So what are you currently listening to on Repeat? Like, what's the song that's either been just playing in your head constantly or that you actually been listening to? Lillian: [00:57:35] My husband downloaded this song. We live in Thailand, there's no radio. Oh, yeah, so there's no like you. No, it's and it says something about you and me. We got our own time. We live on the you and me. We live on the US dollar. But we got our own sense of time and I don't know who wrote it, but like for him that he's Russian. [00:58:00] I'm American. We live in Thailand, both working for us whenever. So yeah, that one really strikes. Harpreet: [00:58:08] I'll Google up the lyrics and get that. What does that mean? There's a artist I really like based out of Thailand as well. He's a young kid. His name is foom p h u m the the Prewett. I probably butchered his last name, Foom of Spirit, and he's just got a singer songwriter. He's got this cool guitar and Lillian: [00:58:32] You know where he Harpreet: [00:58:32] Is. He's based on, I think Bangkok. I'll send you a link to a song. His song is really Lillian: [00:58:37] Send me a link to him and I will try and get you and can do you want a CD or you already have all this stuff Harpreet: [00:58:44] On the Internet. Yeah, I just listen to it on Spotify. But yeah, he just seems like a really cool kid. Lillian: [00:58:48] I can send you a CD if you like. Harpreet: [00:58:50] Yeah, that'll be awesome. Lillian: [00:58:51] Yeah, I'd be happy to just tell me what it is and I'll get our nanny to find it for. Nice. Harpreet: [00:58:57] Nice. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is, this is the fun part now. So this we don't know. Gosh they're always fun questions. They're always fun questions. Mountains or ocean. Ocean. Yeah. Same here. If you are a vegetable, what vegetable would you be, carrot, carrot, huh? Nice. Do you like carrot cake? Lillian: [00:59:20] I do, but for some reason, I really like carrots slightly, they could come here and they're kind of sweet like candy and they're yummy. Harpreet: [00:59:28] Yeah, that's what Ben's your mind every time you think about it. Lillian: [00:59:33] That. And. Oh, what burns my mind every time I think about it, every time I think about what someone else is doing and how it probably seems in my brain, it seems like there's so much further along than me and how I'm so far behind in what I'm doing wrong. My brain gets all out of whack and it feels pended bent. [01:00:00] Harpreet: [01:00:01] Last one here. Who are some of your heroes? Lillian: [01:00:05] Wow, heroes. Oh, God. God is my hero. I have I have a spirituality. So, like, I don't really love following other business owners, other entrepreneurs, people that are creating things, the Data space. But like, I don't idolize anyone. The only my hero, I guess, would be my daughter and my husband. Those are my two heroes. And then there's my my God guys. Other than that, there's not really, Harpreet: [01:00:44] You know, the perfect man. That's that's awesome. Lillian, thank you so much for taking time to be on this to to come on the show and chat with me. How can people connect with you and where can they find you online? Lillian: [01:00:58] And OK, well, I know you're big on LinkedIn, so I have I'm on LinkedIn a lot. So that's one place I do a lot of like I'm addicted to Instagram, so I'm on stories all the time. If you want to get more personal behind the scenes sort of thing, it would be Instagram stories. And then YouTube is where I give out free trainings once per week. Harpreet: [01:01:22] I'll be sure to link to all of those platforms in the show notes so you guys can go and connect with Lilyan and see what she's up to. And again, thank you so much for taking time out of schedule to be on the show. We appreciate having you here. Lillian: [01:01:33] Thank you for having me. Happy.