Chris: I don't know if anybody else is going to like him, but I thought it was not terrible. I was entertained, but I also like 
Phil: that's all I'm going for.
Chris: hang out and talk. So
Phil: Yeah. I mean, you've gotten me hooked on back to work. I love that show. I listen to it all the time.
Chris: it's one of my go-to. I have some F1 podcasts I listened to back to work and some David Chang stuff, the occasional Enneagram podcast. 
That's kinda my repertoire. 
Phil: That's cool. I think I'm pretty much down to, planetary radio.
Chris: I can't say I listen to that.
Phil: Recently gave that one another go. Oh, it's cool. It's a, it's a guy who talks about space and he usually has bill Nye on,  bill Nye, the science guy, still doing stuff with, with science. So listen to that podcast and I am a big armchair expert fan. I'm a cherry Let's see what are, what are some of my other fun ones? I mean like the classics, you know, like the
Chris: Stuff he's known 
Phil: stuff you should know.
Yeah. Josh and Chuck. 
Yeah.
The very first podcast I ever listened to was in 2008, maybe 2007. And yeah, the very first podcast I ever listened to was in 2007. And it was the stuff you should know, podcasts. I think I Googled what his podcast and stuff he should know came up. And there was an episode on how to survive a plane crash.
And it wasn't like really, how are you going to survive, pulling grass? She was like, If you want to increase your odds of living in a plane crash from, you know, like one in a million to one in a million plus one that's that's how you do it. Yeah, no, those are, those would be better odds. And I'm talking about living
Chris: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's the worst.   Two and a million would be better odds
Phil: right. You're right.  That's true. Math was never my strong suit,
you 
Chris: to increase your odds of living to one in a billion, from one in the million.
Phil: Yeah. W Y I remember one of the things was sit towards the back of the plane. Cause like, if that fuselage is going to explode, it's going to explode from there
and then let's see, it was another one. I think don't fly. Might've been on
Chris: take a car, although I'm pretty sure like driving probably has that, driving is probably more dangerous than flying
but yeah. going on Josh and Chuck
Phil: yeah. josh and Chuck good podcasters, right? They're two of the best, I think they're up to like, like 2000 episodes maybe.
Chris: It's been a little while since I've listened to them. 
Phil: that's probably the podcast that got me into podcasts. So thanks Josh and Chuck, but you know, what podcasts I listen to more than any of them.
Chris: ours, because you have to do show notes.
Phil: Yeah, dad's kitchen. Gotta do some shout outs. And if anybody is curious about those show notes, they can be found at dad's kitchen co.com. Or I recently started doing show notes on our Instagram stories. I don't know if people are watching those. I don't know if they're helpful, but they're there.
Chris: that sounds like it'd be helpful. 
Phil: Okay. there's actually a really fascinating story on how Instagram became what Instagram is. Which reminds me of another podcast. I like called how I built this with guy 
Chris: that's a good one. That's definitely a good
Phil: for sure. Yeah, he's a good dude. but anyways, he tells a story of how the co-founder. Went on a vacation with his wife and they're trying to figure out like where they're going to go with Instagram.
I mean, you know, like, do we continue work in this thing? It's kind of, kind of feel like it's flailing a little bit. Do we shut it down? Do we sell it? What do we do? And his wife said, Well, the reason why I don't love Instagram very much is because it's easy to compare.
My pictures with other people's pictures. and in her husband was like, well, it's not so much that, you know, he's got a really good camera. He just uses these filters to make the pictures look nice.
And she's like, Oh, well then you should just include filters in the app. So that people can use those. He's like, that's a great idea. And so he did that started starting, including filters on the pictures and then Instagram, like it's totally exploded after that. So that, that was kind of a fascinating story,
but also Instagram is totally killing food because You make something Like one of your favorite mother sauces and you realize this doesn't look nearly as good as Billy Bob's mother sauces over there.
Chris: I don't know how you judge a sauce by a picture though, I guess like, can you, 
Phil: I got nothing so dumb.
Chris: can you tell the difference between a bash and Mel and like milk from a picture? maybe, maybe it
depends on if it's like poured on something like a, has a different level of viscosity,
Phil: Yeah, sure.
Chris: yeah, I dunno. I do think that concept is, really super interesting just in general. When you are comparing yourself to anything on social media, you could easily be comparing yourself to the absolute best in the world at any given category.
Phil:  
yeah, I've, I've noticed like, even on the dad's kitchen page, which by the way, his dad's kitchen co not follow all the top food blogs in the world, like, you know, food 52 or Epicurious or New York times cooking, you know, all those, like really, really big names. In the, in the food network, if you only follow those, then yeah.
You're just going to get like super discouraged. Like my hollandaise never looks like that. 
Chris: it's hard to compare to the top 10 in the whole entire world.
Phil: Yeah, it is, but
 
I did. Yeah. Do you,
do you think we should maybe dive
in to 
Chris: that, you know, after Besh ML, hollandaise is. It's actually kind of one of the only other mother sauces that I've ever made. So
Phil: Oh, that's probably not
Chris: maybe, maybe we can dive into that. 
Phil: yeah, there are a few different mother sauces in France. more specifically five. And we talked a little bit about that on our Beshir Mel episode.
Chris. it's really hard to make. I don't think it's that easy to make.
Chris: I think we've only made it a couple of times. We did mother's day at our house and actually like kind of made a large batch of eggs, bended eggs. And we stumbled across this interesting blender recipe. I'm sure it's like absolute abomination of holidays, but I thought it turned out pretty decent and it wasn't that hard 
doing it that way. 
But, I like controlling all of the, temperatures and everything. but we were probably cheating 
Phil: Ashley's made it with the blend of reform. and I mean, she's, she's made it a couple of times. It's turned out really, really well. So I don't think it's cheating. I mean, it's, there's probably no different than making a cup of tea and then using an electric tea kettle, and then your mother-in-law comes over and is like,  that's not tea, right.
So that's not fair to say, but I think making it with like a double boiler,  and managing your heat and making sure you get just the right a bit of ingredients in there for the perfect emulsification, you, uh, you, you really need to be nuanced about 
it. It can be a little difficult.
Chris:  so Phil  it seems like you are quite familiar with hollandaise and to that the making of, do you want to talk through  
Phil: okay. I wouldn't say I'm quite familiar, but,
uh, I That's softly kind of you. Okay. So hollandaise, it is, it is one of the five mother sauces in France, though. It originated in, in Holland or the Netherlands, if you will. And it's basically a yolk that has been beaten, quite rigorously.
It's like,
Chris:  the one you keep in the basement, not the good one.
Okay. 
Phil: The one you only bring out when you want to get canceled. So it is a jokes that have been beaten. It is butter. It's just a little bit of water and it's lemon juice. And there's a whole process that goes in with that. That's one way to make hollandaise. There's actually like kind of a few different variations of that.
You could use vinegar, in some derivatives, but. For me, I like to kind of stick to the, to the French way
Chris: yeah. So how would you describe the consistency and maybe like the flavor profile? To somebody that hasn't had it before.
Phil: Wow. Okay Flavor profile, I think is probably going to be. little bit of a zesty flavor, which probably comes from the lemon. 
Chris: you got some acidic
Tang to it? 
Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The acid for sure.
It's going to be a really fluffy, airy.
And it kind of tastes a little bit like mayonnaise maybe cause of the cause of the egg yolks a little bit, but But you get some of that butter flavor as well, which Manet's death. Definitely. Italy does not have. I dunno. Is that, is that a good description, Chris? You tell me see, it's hard to answer that because nobody ever just tastes it by itself. Like hollandaise 
other things 
right? It's it's, it's like an 
Chris: savory? 
Phil: Would I call it savory? 
Chris: Because I think there's an element of savoriness with the Tang. 
And it's something that, as a sauce, it's something that can bring an interesting level of balance to whatever's being used on. so that Tang can like, help cut an overly fatty dish or something like that. I think obviously eggs Benedict is the most common and famous. Dish that you might encounter hollandaise on here in the U S these days. 
Phil: It's not just the most famous dish that has hollandaise. It's also the famous, most famous egg dish in the world.   
Chris: is it other 
than it 
other 
Phil: Yeah everybody does 
Chris: Well, everybody's missing out then. I don't know, actually, I, I kind of really like fried eggs. I go back and forth. I like fried eggs  personally 
Phil: Have you ever gone to a restaurant? That's super basic. Like I dunno. And I hop yeah. Or whatever, and they ask you how you want your eggs and you say poached.  Just to get a reaction.
Chris: I have 
Phil: I've always kind of wanted to do that or, or like show to, someone's house. Hey, how do you want your eggs? chris' poached please. Yeah. So Benedict Yeah is the push to eggs yeah 
Chris: Yes, 
yes. It is fantastic. typically served over like an English muffin  like that. And, uh, um, one of the restaurants here, by the locks, gosh, I don't remember exactly what all they did differently, but I do remember that he served in the eggs Benedict on I think it was like an Indian cornbread, like a, like a, a slice of Indian corn bread using blue corn and had a of pork belly.
Phil: Yeah 
Chris: it is just fantastic. So good. I don't know if he still has it on the menu or not, but it was probably one of the best Benedict dishes I've had. So definitely a favorite. but as far as the hollandaise sauce, other than  Benedict, what other things like, what other things have you used it on or, or seen the dog or enjoyed it on?
Phil: Seen it on like steamed vegetables,
 or broccoli or cauliflower carrots.
Chris: asparagus I think I actually had    salmon, uh, some type of fish more 
like fat content Um, it's And again, it's
had And 
Phil: again
it's 
Chris: Um, type of like, what other stuff?
Oh, actually, you know um, like chicken thighs
like, like 
Phil: to get your 
Chris: crepes with 
crepes with I do
There should be it shouldn't be a thing. I'm just thinking about the fat content in the, in the chicken thighs, you know, the, that dark meat being so much more fatty than white meat. and the, that kind of acidity, the holidays, balancing that out nicely.
Phil: So you would say just from like a foundational point that the, the acidity of. The hollandaise just naturally pairs. Well with a fatty. Okay.
Like entree or protein maybe. 
Chris: protein maybe that way.  I don't know if that's how anybody else would think, but like right now where I'm at  I mean, I think something like a, as we talked It can be a very rich sauce a hollandaise can,
as well I think with the best and mal you do run um getting to a place that's just too rich in fat  Where with uh holidays like it's something   
Phil: it's a pretty good description. It's, you know, it's a little challenging because you don't necessarily know exactly what it's supposed to look like right away. and in a way that's kind of why I love it. It's it's just like pushing yourself a little bit. I think most of the things that we've talked about so far on the show have been relatively simple.
I think hollandaise is kind of like stepping it up a bit. it's something that you can try and that you can fail and then you can try again,
Chris: all of these things are that way 
Phil: well 
yeah for
sure. Yeah. 
Which is 
sure 
Chris: cooking and food and that, you know, it's, it's just a meal and if you suck it up, suck it up we have to eat three times a day. So thing about that, Phil. one thing about that, Phil, that I do, man, I think there's an element of feel and intuition that  you know, we're, we're kind of just going through this process of, of trying to get better at all of this and out.
And started with this mentality that the was the Bible, the be all end, of of experience 
Phil: And 
Chris:  That's 
really case um at best like a recipe be like a a loose and um that kind of points you in the right direction you're the one that's actually Where is that based on the ingredients that you you okay And there's a lot of freedom There's freedom to substitute to like  you go But there's also this element of like intuition that comes into play And and maybe just maybe one of those that It takes a little bit to to get that right Consistency because it's like you're the one that's like the and kind of as you're pouring those different things in you're, you're finding that like right.
the consistency that you're  
Phil: absolutely. Yeah, that recipe, it's not like this. You know, 12 step guide to success. It's like I almost feel like the recipe should almost be a suggestion in a way, you know, like here here's one way to make it,
let us know your thoughts, but I dunno if I don't know if American recipes really leave space for that anymore.
and that kinda makes me sad a little bit, because then it just kinda makes us stupid, 
do you ever read the comments in  a 
Chris: every now and then. 
Phil: I think they can be pretty 
Chris: Yeah 
Phil: I feel like that's a great a suggestion on, you know, just so you know, I did this a little bit differently. This kind of worked for me. This didn't sometimes it's helpful to read those
Chris: Yeah. I feel like I pour over reviews before I buy anything and kind of feels like the same thing 
Phil: Sure. 
Chris: firsthand knowledge there 
Phil: Maybe we could start leaving comments on recipes
Chris:  
should back to the podcast. 
Phil: and then point yes. We'll sell promotion. No, issue 
Chris: No, 
Phil: Okay. So you mentioned that you have a pork belly with a, with a Benedict and it like totally worked.
 
I kind of feel like maybe pork in general is 
just like a really 
good pairing with, with a hollandaise because I've had on two separate occasions.
And eggs Benedict one with a braised pork and it absolutely slayed. 
And 
that was 
actually 
And 
that was 
actually 
Good little, a breakfast restaurant chain in Colorado. not the worst breakfast in the world. And then we have recently made it with prosciutto, talked with some Rugola and then a balsamic reduction.
And that per Shuto it's just like so rich in flavor with the hollandaise. So that might be my, my favorite way to do an eggs Benedict, prosciutto, irregular, and specific production. So,
Chris:  good 
Phil: and then yeah, served over an English muffin.
So I have a question. 
Chris: Yes. 
Phil: to 
take your pain Purdue from a couple of days 
ago? And are you gonna, yeah. And then are you going to top that with, with some 
Chris: Absolutely not. That sounds terrible.
but 
let's just combine at the end of the semester, everything that we've learned into one dish, 
With ice cream on top. one thing that, that, for some reason, Does bring to mind. I don't, I don't know why, but, uh, the idea, this is one of the mother sauces, which means that there are derivative sauces from it. and you know, kind of like a Mornay with the bash AML, hollandaise has quite a few derivatives as well. maybe one of these days, I have to recover some of the mother sauces. We can dive into some of the other smaller or daughter or derivative sauces, are there any drift of sauces of, of holidays that you've had some experience with?
Phil: So the one that comes to mind, I think I'm pronouncing this right. Is the bear Bernay   
Chris: Bernays 
Phil: is it Bernays? Yeah, I guess it would be hollandaise mayonnaise. Bernays. I think is basically. Your hollandaise with like a white wine  vinegar or is it just white wine? I can't remember. 
Chris: It's like an interesting reduction that has,  a shallot   
Phil: okay. So a bunch of seasonings with, wine and vinegar.
Gotcha. Okay. 
Chris: And then there were, there were some variations, or even like derivatives of that by just substituting a couple, a couple of the smaller things. So like if you substituted, the Terragon for mint. It's like a different sauce  If you actually reduced that white wine, it's another sauce.
if you removed the Terragon and Schererville and added a tomato puree, it's totally different sauce. So even, even kind of that derivative sauce has its own derivatives, which is interesting to me. 
Phil: Yeah, 
it's just like this endless book of 
sauce. Derivatives. 
 
That is interesting. 
Chris: So we have 
Phil: this? What did they call the sauce guy in the, in the kitchen? Like a French kitchen 
Is it a sauce CA the saucy is like one of the 
Chris: that's 
Phil: And when I say SaaS guy, I, I obviously don't mean guy.
Chris: You mean, man? Sorry, stop the sauce, human, the sauce, the sauce, human. I think having, having a foundation of the holidays kind of leads you to a lot of really interesting and complex sauces. It seems like to me, it has a lot of utility  
Phil: I'm really curious to see what some of our, uh, our fans out there do with their holidays. Do they, do they slap it on some French toast? Do they 
slap it 
on some crepes? do, they just 
drink it? 
I don't know. 
Let's Let's find out Chris.
Chris: sure I want to know    Please do not send us that video. 
Phil: Please do not send us that video at dad's kitchen co on Instagram.
Chris: But as you have a fantastic, Benedict.  Yes. We wouldn't love to see that. 
Phil: Um,
definitely.
Chris: Gotcha. 
Phil: eggs Benedict. 
Chris: I am It's been a while since I've had that, but, uh, I'm a fan.
   Phil: good. And we could probably do an entire episode. We could probably do like an entire five part mini series on how to poach an egg. 
Cause it's also not that 
easy   
Yeah, so a poached egg, and some hollandaise, you make that, for your family this week and you're going to definitely up here up your skills, so  you can do it guys and girls.
Chris: Yes, we believe in you. We have faith. So Phil, as always, if people were going to reach out, send us images of things that they've been making videos of themselves drinking, hollandaise sauce straight, where those
Phil: dad's kitchen co homie.