Tina: Hi I'm Tina Hillary: and I'm Hillary Tina: and this is the muck podcast we our weekly podcast covering strange stories in American politics welcome to Episode One Hillary: yes thank you so much for doing this with me Tina: I just excited about the opportunity and I think you guys will all enjoy the stories that we want to share with you Hillary: I was thinking you just said weird stories and politics like politics is just weird it's just covering politics yes you know so this is really it's gonna be a lot of fun and I'm excited that we're doing it together Tina: me too Hillary: yeah so we know each other from doing volunteer work together we've been working pretty hard to get this thing together and planning it so yeah let's let's do this thing right Tina: yes I can't wait to hear the story you're about to share Hillary: yeah same here so every week we'll each be sharing a different story and I don't know what you're about to tell me and you don't know what I'm about to tell you so it should be really good Tina: yeah Hillary: and I hope everybody really enjoys it yeah Tina: and we're gonna be covering things from murder to mayhem to just you know mischievous politics Hillary: yeah every day there's a story nowadays and it’s like let's just go read the newspaper like we don't have to really go that far for a story to do yeah okay so I'm first yeah we rolled the dice and I'm first so are you ready Tina: I am Hillary: because I can't wait to tell you the story so when did your family come down here I moved down here Tina: in the 80s mid 80s Hillary: okay so maybe you might know this story I was wondering if you might know it okay so first I'm gonna set up Fort Lauderdale because we're I'm doing one close to home that's where I grew up this is a story that a lot of people who move down here now have no idea this story this was even a thing Tina: okay okay Hillary: so 1980s fort Lauderdale was a wild Tina: where the boys are baby Hillary: yeah that's like Connie Francis the 50s you know Fort Lauderdale I'm talking about 1980s Spring Break joking the beach Tina: elbow room Hillary: Elbow room, wet t-shirt contests kids hanging out of balconies I remember my mom like let's go look at the Spring Breakers you know Tina: The strip that's when you could actually cruise the strip that's where they changed yes I remember doing that yes Hillary: and the kids were wild right and so Fort Lauderdale had quite the reputation of being this wild place to go to and for spring break and the people who lived here were kind of tired of it kids were getting hurt; it was just not not a place they want it to be and so they really pushed the Commission here in Fort Lauderdale to to make some changes Tina: I remember because they I remember when they actually changed the strip so that you couldn’t cruise it anymore that was a big deal yeah Hillary: so they had the police crackdown on the kids drinking and after a few spring breaks the kids were like peace were out we're going to fuck uptown like we're going to Daytona we're done we're done and so it became what they wanted they they had this whole vision of what they wanted Fort Lauderdale to be; they had this Walt Disney World kind of idea of like we can get these families to come in it'll be a totally different and to some extent they've succeeded at that I mean Fort Lauderdale now with those huge hotels on the beach is not what it was then Tina: no I feel like I could be completely wrong in my memory but I feel like there was a loss of remember maybe some talk of loss of revenue when those Spring Breakers being gone and like a weird maybe transitionary space as they kind of reinvented Fort Lauderdale Hillary: right it's probably true so so then we moved like to the 90s and so the 90s in Fort Lauderdale is like oK we've cracked down on the Spring Breakers what else can we do and unlike the Commission now that's in Fort Lauderdale that’s super progressive it was a super conservative Commission and part of that was cleaning up the nude bars and the strip clubs and I mean they were like rated you know xxx video shops everywhere Tina: See I don’t remember this Hillary: there was believe it or not Tina: Wait, was it The Candy Store and those kinds of places? Hillary: those were the those were where you could go for the wet t-shirt Tina: yes Hillary: okay so there was a place near the airport where you could go and get it's a coffee shop donut coffee shop where the waitresses were topless like this is the kind of shit was happening in Fort Lauderdale; salacious shit everywhere like it was is you know and they're like we're not doing this for cleaning the shit up so there were you know a big a part of the push was from the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church which is like a mega church here in Fort Lauderdale still pretty big mega church and the Reverend there Reverend James Kennedy Tina: He had a TV show Hillary: yeah yes yes and one of their deacons was Dan Danzinger and he actually was put on the Fort Lauderdale Commission when somebody was removed or somebody left to go run for Senate and he was appointed and then he ran for re-election and he won so now you had this Deacon from Coral Ridge Presbyterian which is super loud wealthy folks you know really wealthy folks their voices in the community you've got somebody from that Commission sitting on the you know from the church sitting in the Commission Tina: I remember that church in the 90s with people outside with their signs yeah and they were just horrible Hillary: yes they've actually just been named a hate group by the Southern Poverty Poverty Law Center because of their anti-gay rhetoric Tina: that's what I remember Hillary: yes it's not not a great place so one of the quotes from James Kennedy was “you cannot by legislation make people morally pure and holy but government can control the baser instincts of man rape and murder are immoral so we have laws against them” so this is somebody who very clearly wants to control all of this and also before I get into the story one other thing that I also kind of like it is that Motley Crue in the song “girls girls girls” gives a shout out to strip club in Fort Lauderdale, which is amazing so okay that's all I'm saying he's like this is where we're at in the 90s in Fort Lauderdale. So all right so our story starts in 1985 so a young Kathy and I I'm gonna have to double check her name but I think it was Defeatie was her previously married name so Kathy defeat II has pulled over by a BSO deputy Jeff Willets for a broken taillight Tina: Uh-oh Hillary: Within a week Jeff has paid Kathy citation and has left his wife for her Tina: Wait, why? Hillary: I just got goosebumps because I just realized that you don't know what the story is so fucking excited okay so Jeff's wife had just had a baby they had a daughter who had died from from leukemia so you know perfect time to hit the road we're gonna take off and leave leave my wife for this for this woman I just pulled over right so Kathy was a single mother she had two children these two nuts got married I'm gonna show you a picture of them right now maybe then you'll know the story this is Kathy and Jeff Willets Tina: no I don't know the story but I love the frosted honey tips Hillary: honey bangs pink lipstick you know this is elbow room style yeah she got that stream bikini yes course she's beautiful she's gorgeous Tina: she is the epitome of like 1980s Fort Lauderdale yes totally elbow room Hillary: Yes he's very leathery you know he's in that Sun Giving people tickets Tina: look at that tank top where's the spaghetti stain Hillary: yeah okay so those are the folks were talking about I'm gonna leave that on page table so you can see on there okay so um shortly after they got married Jeff's ex wife passes away she had been sick she dies so now they had this little girl who Jeff of course gets custody of and Kathy ends up adopting her so she's living in their home when with her two children as well and a huge custody battle happens between Jeff and his ex in-laws you know the wife's parents they want custody of this little girl so that goes on for a long time meanwhile Kathy's children wanted to move back up north to live with her ex-husband with their dad and she was really heartbroken by this but she agreed to let them go because it was gonna make them happy and she didn't want to you know she wanted them to be happy so there go the children and so Kathy of course becomes very depressed and she went to her doctor and said you know I don't know what to do I miss my children I don't know you know all of these things like would happen if your children were gone right Tina: Of course Hillary: so the doctor prescribed to her what is the favorite 90s drug of time Prozac right more synonymous with the 90s than the Nirvana right Tina: yeah Hillary: and so Kathy started experiencing side effects that to date no one has ever put together with Prozac she started saying that her sex drive was like through the roof okay nobody's there's been no you know reported cases of this ever happening with Prozac but you know Kathy's sex drive Tina: So this is her reason for excusing some behavior perhaps? Hillary: here we go so this led to Kathy having an affair; she admitted it to Jeff about a month later and then she said you know by the way all of these things; this is my sex drive is is out of control and he kind of noticed because she wanted to have sex like six to seven times a day and he was like I can't keep up I don't know what to do here right so these two idiots like what do they do do they go to the doctor and say something's not right take me off the Prozac maybe get a second opinion Tina: no Hillary: no they decide that they're gonna put an ad in the paper Tina: Oh No Hillary: so that Kathy can have sex with men and fulfill this this need this urge that she had right Tina: right and so then it takes a little burden off ol Jeff Hillary: yeah you take a little break he's gotta go take a suntan so they were already into the swingers lifestyle already so it didn't seem you know Tina: it wasn't out of character Hillary: this is what this is what they were doing so like for me it would not be the first thing I would go to but for people who are into this lifestyle no judgement Tina: correct Hillary: it wasn't it wasn't something out of character for them so this is the ad they put in the paper Tina: oh goodness Hillary: it says beautiful young frosted blonde gorgeous eyes great body hot tan of course he's got a hot tan looking for executive for day evening interludes send your business cards too right so here's the ad we'll have to put this up on our Instagram Tina: oh my goodness Hillary: so here's what happens in the 90s when you put an ad like this in the paper and you say send your business cards Tina: Do they they get flooded Hillary: Fucking thousands; like hey my aka this name no real business cards Tina: because they're just looking for frosted blonde Fort Lauderdale; they’re like let's go Hillary: yeah like here's my real name I just can't that bad fact to me boggles my mind more than anything else in this in this story because it was a time when the trust level even you know to think about just sending your business card off like who you don't even know this could be a sting operation Tina: yeah it could be Hillary: I feel I would question this and be like I don't know who's getting my card like no they send it off because they're horny yeah right these are dudes they want they're like looking for this woman okay and Tina: there's not even a photo that's the thing Hillary: no it's we're gonna believe this complete description and nowadays cops you know pose online too Tina: I love that it says looking for executive for day evening interlude executive Hillary: okay well this is a good point Tina: because it's this like a scam like they're gonna try to hustle these guys Hillary: okay so here we go so they get thousands of cards and these to start sifting through the cards and of course they pick out the most powerful names the the richest the most you know the the most well-known because that's who sent these cards in like we're not talking about strangers we're mean I'm sure some of them obviously are strangers but they found names in these cards that would like would blow people's minds if they knew that these guys were sending in cards Tina: right this seems like a good blackmailing opportunity absolutely that's all I would think about yeah right it's like this is what they're gonna do with these cards so they went along with their plan they set up appointments and according to Kathy and Jeff she would just talk to the men and they'd have sex but not for payment you know it was really again to fulfill this they considered it a form of therapy for her okay and really because you know this is a quote from Jeff “it was a therapy for Kathy and the men who were all lonely very lonely in their marriages” like get a fucking dog you're so lonely Tina: I feel like I mean is any of the Prozac sex addiction even true or is something they concocted as like an excuse for fleecing some men. Hillary: This story is completely 100% one explanation after the other as if they were ready for all of these questions as if if we get caught how are we going to explain this away Tina: because it just sounds cuckoo Hillary: it's so cuckoo and there's a fantastic video on YouTube from the Jane Whitney show which was one of these like 90s you know talk shows the audience at the end would get up and start yelling at the people so they went on this after all of this story was over and they go on to this the show and they're sitting there and they look like perfectly normal people and they're calm and they're together and they are giving you explanations and feeding this team or you're just like oh like they just really have an answer to every single question it's crazy but they really work this thing out like they worked it out to be like no work this is a perfectly normal thing to do right ok so then they started charged to charge for sex and they also have reasons for this and and also they never considered it sex work you know they never considered it would solicitation because you know according to Jeff Tina: Is it therapy like how are they excusing? Hillary: so first it was therapy then Kathy couldn't hold a job because of this this this pain that's true then you know this urge Tina: Oh please, please Hillary: She couldn’t hold a job so then she started to charge and she was making upwards of $2,000 a week doing this right yeah so um okay so here's where it gets a little bit more weird Tina: more weird Hillary: more weird so Jeff would sit in the closet of the bedroom Tina: So a little voyeuristic Hillary: yes so there was like you know the slats in the closet door and he would watch them and also videotape it Tina: is this unbeknownst to Hillary: completely unbeknownst to the customer right or the therapy the man yeah exactly so he did this for several reasons the explanations these are two explanations that he had one is that they were swingers so he enjoyed watching Kathy with the other men and then they would watch the tape together right - Two is he would take notes about what Kathy and the customer talked about so she would be prepared for the next visit like you know good customer service you get it Tina: oh my god Hillary: yeah bitch right Tina: No Hillary: so then I mean she was seeing up to six to seven men a day so you know Tina: a day Hillary: yeah and then of course my explanation is they were gonna use the tape to blackmail shit out of people Tina: Yes Hillary: especially the most famous powerful people in the city okay Tina: it's a deliberate choice that they are making of the people give me a break Hillary: okay so then of course because we're humans one of these customers became infatuated with with her so Forest McAllister he's a Weston resident he falls in love with Kathy and he's convinced himself that the only reason she's doing this sex work is because her husband is forcing her to which of course I love this Tina: The poor damsel in distress Hillary: because God forbid you fall in love with somebody who actually is doing something that you don't maybe agree with although you're participating in it but somebody's forcing her to be honest right it's a very bizarre thing and also um he always had a feeling that somebody was watching them this guy Foster and he actually so one day they're in the bedroom together he hears snoring from the closet Tina: No oh my god so so he's so uninterested so basically he's just in there to get dirt right Tina: Why even stay in the closet if you're gonna sleep just set the camera up Hillary: who; well how about this how about the fact that your wife is having sex with another man in your bed and Tina: And your snoozing in the corner Hillary: You're in corner fucking sleeping Tina: well I mean, how many days is this going on he's probably like oh here we go again, I’m over this Hillary: yes so this very this made him very angry this guy Foster of course right he's like keeping an audience up, not keeping their attention so he threatens to call the police and Kathy's of course this is not a good thing because you know Jeff is still a BSO deputy you know he's still a deputy for the Broward’s sheriff's office and it's like you can't he's gonna get in a lot of trouble she's gonna get in a lot of trouble so Jeff you know he called this guy and left a message on his answering machine remember answering machines oh my god threatening him Tina: so now he's on tape Hillary: yeah well everything's on tape anyway Tina: I mean but now he's got himself threatening another human on tape Hillary: this is the time Tina: He’s a police officer wouldn't he even think about that Hillary: you're asking these questions as if we're talking about rational people yeah that's you know so he goes to the police anyway Foster McCallister he goes to the police and reports him so a month later in July of 1991 the police raided the home of Kathy and Jeff Willes they found all of the videotapes a log of the date so when I say date timing customers and when they were there Tina: So they have a Ledger Hillary: oh yeah he was keeping everything so there and then all the business cards okay they also found wiretapping devices now here's where this comes in so remember I mentioned Jeff was in this custody battle so there was a judge in that case and the these two the father-in-law and Jeff were so fight they're fighting so much that he allowed them there's a court order where they were allowed to audio tape but what you know tape the conversations so that there wasn't he said he said kind of over this so they were allowed to tape each other but what would happen is if I called Kathy and she picked up the phone we have recorded her yeah used to turn it off and sometimes she would forget to do that and so there were people being taped like she had a conversation with her brother on the phone and if it's illegal if you're not letting that person Tina: yeah in Florida right isn't it it's a two-party consent Hillary: yeah something so she didn't turn it off so those are some of the tapes they found and so they they got him on that too they used it so okay so this has only been going on for five months so five months after they started this whole you know endeavor Jeff was arrested at work and in his patrol car they found another log of names the and dates and notes about the customers Kathy was arrested a few days later Tina: what is his reason of keeping this just the customer service angle I mean clearly it is clear that they were gonna do something else with this Hillary: yeah please because I'll tell you why okay so Kathy was arrested a few days later Jeff was charged with profiting from the sex work money which is basically being like a pimp Tina: Pimping Hillary: Pimping and wiretapping and then Cathy was charged with solicitation and wiretapping so this becomes a huge huge media circus like everywhere because we're talking about this beautiful woman housewife who who honestly part of it was like they didn't think they did anything wrong she was even saying like this is consenting adults in my house it's none of your business but it's like a money part that where we started to get into trouble here honey Tina: They exchanged money Hillary: absolutely so they hired Ellis Rubin who is a huge like flashy defense attorney from Miami and he was known for coming up with these defenses to defend his clients that were wild like i think he I think it was a murder case at the time he had come up with his offense that I had watched too much TV yeah so that was part of his defense so after sitting down with Kathy and Jeff they decide they're gonna go for this nymphomaniac Tina: yes so this is it's all contrived then Hillary: yes yeah like Tina: None of this is true Hillary: right so like I was an I couldn't help myself I needed to do this that so more than more than any being obsessed with like Kathy and what was going on there like the husband and more than being obsessed with that the public was became really obsessed with what they called the lists quote-unquote Tina: because everyone wants to know who is on the list Hillary: yes Tina: like who is that oh my gosh what's her name the madam that had like the Washington DC one Hillary: yes Tina: what was her name and she had the list of all the senators Hillary: This happens every single time you know who's on this list and what and not the same thing where they keep notes of like what did they like what did they do you know all of these things Tina: oh my gosh oh and the list of what they like when they're in the bedroom Hillary: honey it's not good so the list of customers was rumored to be a who's who of Fort Lauderdale Tina: oh I love this yeah everybody everybody wants to know they've got to act like they don't want to know but they're like let me let me take a peek at those pages Hillary: exactly it's like it's like what the Tiger Woods everybody ate up that story because these women were coming out and talking about him but it's all of the secret stuff that happens in a bedroom that we're never supposed to know Tina: and you have these people that are public figures that we think of them in this one light but they're like you know everybody's got the little underbelly and we want to know Hillary: everything give me everything there so you know there's great t-shirt shops on the beach in Fort Lauderdale they were selling shirts that said I'm not on the list Tina: Oh my god I want one of those right now Hillary: I’m going on eBay right now to find it Tina: Vintage Hillary: the police and State Attorney's Office had no intentions of releasing the list but the local newspapers and news stations sued it sued to make it public record Tina: It has to be public record it’s part of a case absolutely so several men Tina: Public and permanent Hillary: several men hired lawyers to fight the list being released it went all the way to the Florida Supreme Court the lawyers for these men said they were due the right to privacy but the Florida Supreme Court said these men lost the right to privacy when they broke the law and the list released Tina: There you go; Lord Hillary: here we go so here's how this story ties in to our wonderful podcast what do you know out of the blue Fort Lauderdale Vice Mayor Doug Danziger resigns from the church Tina: it's always from the church Hillary: he resigns due to quote/unquote personal reasons he has denied knowing Kathy Willets but she has confirmed numerous times that Danziger was a customer so this is one of my all-time favorite things about politics it's like if somebody is so against something there where there's smoke there's fire for me this guy was so against all of the things that were happening in Fort Lauderdale that was anti what when his message was and here he is I'm gonna show you a picture of him - this is him Doug Danziger Tina: Oh please yeah look at those 80s glasses Hillary: so like the guys and even women who are so against something they always are hiding something and so that was my favorite part about you know Tina: I love that and you know I think the issue - even with our lovely woman involved in this is if you engaging in sex work if that's your thing it shouldn't be criminalized yeah I mean that's my opinion but it's the fact that they were building a list that they clearly this list was gonna be for a malicious purpose yeah you know it wasn't just Hillary: yes because the day after they were arrested yeah Jeff apparently called want the I can't remember is Peter something my gosh I'll figure out his name I'll put it in here but he owned the major strip clubs here in Fort Lauderdale and the day after he was arrested Jeff Willets called him and tried to sell him Dan Doug dancing or was this guy's number one problem so he he offered to sell him the videotape and the guy told Jeff Willets I don't want anything to do with it like it's poison and I'm not gonna touch it like you know he's like if he goes down he's going down but it probably wasn't a surprise to him because he you know this is what it's like you know that Tina: I love that it's it's tied not only to the Commission but to that pulpit it’s great Hillary: so okay and so in the end Kathy and Jeff decided to plead guilty to avoid a lengthy trial and she was trying to make sure that you know she cared about her customers Tina she didn't want their families to be upset okay ruined so she wanted to protect those names and part of the plea deal was that they wouldn't be releasing the names although the news media made sure that was taken care of so to avoid a lengthy trial they served they pleaded guilty and she served seven months in prison and he served 15 months in prison if I said there's a great video this Jane Whitney video it's fantastic the show and you should go watch it so I part of this too for me was like what if this story happened today would it be as salacious as it was in the in the early 90s you know because Tina: I think if it involved a religious figure it would Hillary: yeah Tina: coming from a very conservative Hillary: but just woman working at her house you don't think it would be as salacious I don't know Tina: I think that maybe she would be given a little more I just feel like because today there's so much conversation on that issue and there are other places in the country where that's legalized and offering protection but I think that their full intent wasn't to satisfy any urge but it was to who can we take down Hillary: Absolutely Tina: because even in the even in your the little business ad the fact that they're only asking for executives is they're looking for high-end people so they if she really wanted to scratch an itch she's like I don't care who's coming it you know I mean why did it like bring anybody why does it have to be an executive so there's something there that they had a plan in mind Hillary: yeah okay so that's the story of Jeff and Cathy will it's the housewife sex worker of Fort Lauderdale Tina: I love it Hillary: I had to say that I was very excited to stay close to home on that one for sure Tina: so my story does take place in Florida it's a little more recent but it's the story of Nancy Oakley are you familiar with her oh right so Nancy Oakley was a City Commissioner for the city of Madeira Beach Florida and this story has jealousy fighting abuse of power and some other little details that I think you'll enjoy all right so Madeira Beach this is part of Pinellas County and it's a small Gulf Coast barrier island off the coast about 4500 people live there there's not like a lot of commercial business it's more residential and it's known by the locals as mad Beach just short for Madeira and I hope I'm pronouncing it right and probably not so my apologies but it was a mad mad mad mad world over in mad Beach and that's the movie I'm referencing do you know that movie Hillary: yes Tina: oh my god the best scene in that movie is that the twist scene yes oh my god anyway so prior to the main incident that I want to tell you about I want to give you a little bit of background on our sweet Nancy Oakley okay so she served as city commissioner from 2007 to 2013 she took a little bit of a hiatus because her husband passed away and then she ran and sought and won re-election in 2017 so some background on her in the 90s in 1990 she was arrested for DUI she fought for three years in court to get that changed to reckless driving in 2014 she had when she was not a commissioner so she was a commissioner to 2013 so that space from 2013 till she was re-elected she did work for the city as an accountant and she had a level two misdemeanor leveled against her during that time for petit theft which is for anything $300 and under I couldn't find the details of exactly what it is that she stole but she was arrested it sounds like we're running out of people to sit on the Commission in Mad Island well then in 2014 the same year she got in trouble at work and the documents cite offenses warranting formal discipline and basically as an accountant that you know I read through the various you know incidents and it was just her work was riddled with errors she wasn't turning things in it on a timely manner and it kind of just went against the standards of quality and professionalism that the city expected especially of an accountant you're like running the money for your position like you you can't mess around Hillary: so nothing you're saying nothing too serious Tina: nothing too serious then there what and this isn't this still it were not at the main issue but there's this other issue so then there's also an allegation of mail fraud so I want you to keep the names in mind from this little mail fraud incident so allegedly okay all right allegedly she received a letter in the mail saying that the current city manager at that time it was a gentleman named Shane Crawford so we're gonna remember Shane for later on but um Hillary: it rhymes with Jane Jane Crawford Tina: yeah there you go so she supposedly received a letter indicating that Shane Crawford had notarized documents that he had a financial interest in and the letter claimed to sort of you know dear Nancy Oakley I'm bringing this to your attention just so that you know that the city manager is unethical because he committed this act of notarizing material for financial gain from this woman who passed away whose name was Pat Shaunce and the letter supposedly came from Pat Shaunce’s son-in-law but then the Shaunce family vehemently denies that they're like we did not send this letter it came out of Baltimore we don't know what this is about they wrote a letter to the editor saying like they're all they're trying to do is smear the city manager's name this is not coming from us we have nothing to do with it he was on the up-and-up with this family documents and so why what's going on with Nancy why is she receiving this letter and that happened in 2017 this letter was received and the letter which we'll post to our show notes is all caps you know it's like this all caps block letter it's very odd so there's all this drama that's tied to her the main sort of muckiness happens Hillary: if you will Tina: yeah it happened in 2014 okay so I’m sorry 2012 2012 my mistake so because this is a beachy little town in Madeira the Commission often has their meetings outdoors they participate in a lot of like fishing tournaments and a lot of like Florida style right outdoor activity meetings and events so in 2012 during a King of the Beach fishing tournament city manager Shane Crawford he was the city manager at the time allegedly got assaulted by Nancy Oakley so the filed complaint claims that a drunken Oakley approaches Crawford and she proceeded to slowly lick his face from his adam’s apple up to just upwards and while grabbing his crotch and buttocks at the same time I'm going to show you a picture I just want to quickly show you a picture Nancy Oakley and Hillary: Oh my God; she looks like my uncle in a wig; honey no don't lick my Adam's apple Tina: and the thing about the the complaint is it didn't say I don't know when I think of a drunk person licking someone's face I think of like you know a frat boy might grab your face and like a quick lick but there's all that right but that it was a slowly-slowly and it's just I pictured this sandpaper tongue- yeah and like it's just it's just as it's you know it's a clue it's disgusting and so I don't know that's the deliberate nature of the lick I think is the thing that it just throws me off so why in the world would a sitting Commissioner of Nancy oakley's age she's you know this is in 2012 she was born in 1958 you know so older woman what what is she thinking what is she doing why would she do this at a public event so supposedly Oakley was jealous of another city employee named Cheryl McGrady and she suspected Cheryl and Shane of having an affair and Cheryl McGrady was married at the time and claims that there was no affair happening Shane and Cheryl are married today by the way Hillary: Um hello Tina: and I do have to say that Shane did incur a fine I believe around $2,000 because she worked for the city as like a deputy clerk she would take minutes for meetings and do other things for the City Commission and even though he wasn't her direct supervisor he would sort of put her name up for promotion or for other things coming up and so the Florida Ethics Committee like you know he got brought up on those charges and so that there wasn't perhaps something there but is it Oakley's business? No Hillary: Was she involved with him in any way? Tina: no but she just didn't like her in fact she would refuse to attend City Commission meetings if McGrady was present and at that particular night of the fishing tournament where they had held like a meeting as well she said don't ever bring that blonde bitch around me again Hillary: oh my god Tina: threw a punch at McGrady and then licked Shane Hillary: so wait, was she intoxicated? Tina: from what she said yes suppose she was drunk no Hillary: but I mean my god who's gonna what woman in the right mind is gonna go through this much effort unless something is going on with this guy ah there's no relationship she did she make this all up in her head like why would she she imagined a relationship Tina: so she went over to them she saw them standing together she said don't bring that bitch around and threw a punch and witnesses all you know and the my favorite thing was to read through the court transcripts of ever of people talking about the details of the night but yeah so just prior to the licking she swings takes a swing at Cheryl it's and and and then licks Shane so at the time Crawford does file charges but he fears repercussions he's like I don't want to lose my over this and when Nancy leaves that Commission seat in 2013 he drops the charges and things go on but then in 2017 remember she goes up for re-election but when she is back in the Commission what happens is she and three other commissioners vote to suspend Shane Crawford as city manager and so he takes that as like she doesn't want me to talk and that's retaliation and then that's when he goes full force like I'm gonna bring these charges up against her because of the face licking incident back in 2012 Hillary: Wow Tina: so not only does she assault this guy but she uses her power to basically get him out and he ends up quitting because he doesn't want to get fired so that's sort of where we are and I feel like if this was a one-off you know maybe maybe could we forgive something like this her licking someone's face she was drunk but if it was a guy if it was a male commissioner and it was a female city manager right we would all be what the hell's good like it ain't grabbing a crotch in and behind me we would all be flipping out so really you know she she doesn't have a right to invade the guys space regardless of how she feels or whether she was drunk or whatever and she's a city commissioner so the best thing is when this came out other people right it's like a me too Hillary: No, Tina: I swear to God start coming out so it's not the first time so how many licks does it take to get to the bottom of a scandal Hillary let's find of course we have the incident of where she licked Crawford right at the king of the beach fishing tournament in the fall of 2012 Crawford also current claims that at a grunt hunt it's another fishing tournament the date is unknown but it's roughly around the same time she licks his face there again then there is the director of Marina public works David Marciano he says that during a king of the beach tournament so there are two king of the beach tournaments there's a fall and a spring and he doesn't remember which one it was but that she approached and licked his face and grabbed his crotch at that event Hillary: oh my god Tina: then we have number five Tom oh no no no I'm sorry number four no four she licked Marciano's face again at a city festival in 2011 and then she licked the president of the old salt fishing foundation Tom Rosenski at a fundraiser in 2014 licked his face and then he claims that she licked several volunteers at that scene Hillary: What is going on? listen I was thinking when she licked the first the first story right yeah like okay she's hot for this guy I mean first of all I'm not licking you like this is not happening it's not the way you know there's got to be a better way Tina: not just little like licking it’s slow licking, long slow licks Hillary: It’s disgusting I don't want that get your tongue away from me yes but she's doing it to everybody yeah what is with the licking what is it this because you know you're at a fishing tournament your gross dude it’s hot Tina: maybe it's a salt thing maybe she's gotta be she maybe she needs a little Hillary: She needs get off this island I think Tina: maybe and then finally the last one that is part of the reports is a Michael Maximo former Madeira Beach Community Services Director at the opening of a Bubba Gump shrimp restaurant she licks his face and again that one is a date unknown but again it's within this sort of timeframe so one of my favorite quotes from the testimony they bring everybody and they bring McGrady in the girl Hillary: Does she lick her Tina: No, she swung the punch at her so she says “I mean she licked a lot of people sir so everyone kind of talked about the fact that she licked people that's what she did when she got drunk “imagine matching like this is your city commissioner people are like up there there's Nancy again sweet so in the end our sweet Nancy resigns from her position and it was recommended that she incur a $5000 fine by the governor and had a public censure so should she I mean I feel like it was anyone else it probably would have if it was a guy I feel like there would have been more repercussion Hillary: It wouldn’t be so funny Tina: yeah I wouldn't be as funny but her attorney so when I think of people who commit crimes like a serial killer right more than three and your a serial so I feel like she is a serial face licker and I know that part of this like and that was brought up in court like is she of seriall face-licker is she just assaulting people and her attorney argued that if she were a serial face licker she would have suffered consequences that you know that that they would have gone on so long like people would have known and maybe not maybe people maybe they were like you know scared to say something you know like what do you say like excuse me the city commissioner just licked me like it's it's it's odd and maybe for men it is uncomfortable to come out and say that a woman has assaulted them Hillary: It’s what you just said like could you imagine this defense attorney now has to defend her and he's like well if this really was this thing you would have heard more about it that's what they say to women oh is this person like let's say Weinstein you know why see if this person if he really did these women we would hear more about it but the fact of the matter is people do say quiet and also could you imagine going to law school all those years and all of a sudden you're defending your know your client is this person a serial face licker Tina: so his whole point was you know we're just really trying to find out if she publicly licked the faces of these four men like that's really what the case is here and they just brought person after person to come on and you know I did see her you know one security guard was like well I heard on the radio because you know Crawford they radioed in saying you know Nancy just licked somebody and you know so they have all these witnesses and then they brought in counter witnesses that said no she would never lick anyone but ultimately the evidence there was a lot of evidence against her so that's that was my you know sweet little Nancy I feel like she's the Energizer Bunny you know she just keeps on licking there we have it Hillary: that is a great story and I know you said you're like this your story is so stupid I mean there is a part of comedy to that for sure but I mean if psychology what is going on there what is you know Tina: it's ridiculous and you know put the sources but a lot of my sources came from this amazing website that was called respect mad Beach and it has all of the court files it has all of the information that you would want to know I have also you can find the letter we'll put that in the notes and there's a great video of Shane Crawford talking about the incident where he even you know makes the wonderful motion of how he was licked and we'll put the photo of Nancy Oakley as well and in Madeira that she's known as Nancy and nasty Nancy I like sweet Nancy I mean I get it it was a little nasty but you know what how bizarre I mean who does that happened Hillary: Also it happened in Florida I've never heard this story before Tina: yeah well it's this little you know it's this little tiny community and in that world everybody knows the story like when you look at it and she's there's just a little odd things that are associated with her but even like the theft the the just her work ethic Hillary: so what was with the letter I mean what did she do it she did she write this letter Tina: so that people are suggesting that perhaps and I think that's the mail fraud charge is that she had somehow was involved in having that letter sent to her so that she could have some sort of proof to suspend the city manager that he was involved in unethical practices and so Hillary: Wow Tina: yeah I mean it's cuckoo Hillary: It’s so good oh my god oh well how did this go did you think it was good Tina: yeah I loved it I think that I had fun I loved hearing all about old school Fort Lauderdale Hillary: oh yes so those were the good days I mean it's still it's super beautiful there now but it's still it's just very clean everything's very you know the tourists the tourism is amazing there but it's just Tina: it's different Hillary: Yeah the huge hotels and yeah they split that road where you can't cruise Tina: yeah when I was in high school you could still part of high school you could still cruise the strip and I do you remember that being a big deal for they you know at the time when I was younger for us being like oh yeah cruises trip anymore it's just something to do on the weekends you have nowhere to go as a kid like let's go cruise the strip Hillary: yeah well this is good for our first episode Tina: yes Hillary: okay so thank you so much for listening and you can find us on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook at The Muck Podcast and we are our podcast is going to be on fireside.fm and you can find links to the podcasts on all of those three social media sites Tina: yeah and it should be on Apple Hillary: Apple podcast we're gonna have it blogged Tina: Also on stitcher and just subscribe Hillary: please subscribe and we'll be coming to you every week with different stories you can also email us at themuckpodcast@gmail.com so if you have any stories you'd like us to cover and talk about Tina: yeah please please we would love to hear and it's anything any elected official from your school board member up the line so we are excited to hear what you have to share with us Hillary: yes so Thank You Tina Tina: thank you *Note: This is an automatic audio transcription; please excuse any grammar or spelling errors