de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 0:00 This is Episode 30 of Ethics and Culture Cast from the Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture. Welcome to Episode 30 of Ethics and Culture Cast. I'm Ken Hallenius, the communications specialist at the de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture at the University of Notre Dame. In this episode, we sit down with a few students who traveled to Israel over the 2019 spring break on a Center-sponsored pilgrimage to the Holy Land. The students, two undergraduates and a PhD candidate, talked about their expectations before the trip, their experience while in Israel, and the enduring memories that they brought back with them. Let's head into the Maritain library for this very special conversation. Tell us a little bit about yourselves. So we can kind of place everybody in space here. So let's begin with you. Emily, tell us a bit about yourself. What What do you study? Where are you from, those sorts of things? What year are you? Emily Hirshorn 1:18 Yeah. Hi, I'm Emily. I'm a senior. I'm from West Harrison, New York, and I'm majoring in Arabic and minoring in design and theology. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 1:26 Okay. How about you, John? Where are you from? And what do you study and all that kind of good stuff? John Hale 1:30 So my name is John Hale. I am from Dearborn, Michigan. I'm studying political science and Italian with a minor in theology. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 1:38 Awesome. How about you Father Justin? Fr. Justin Brophy 1:41 I am Father Justin Brophy from Totowa, New Jersey, and I am a fourth year doctoral student in political theory, I study Plato and Nietzsche. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 1:52 And you have been here at Notre Dame before? Fr. Justin Brophy 1:55 I graduated Notre Dame in '06, and then entered the Dominican order. Now I'm here in my second tour of duty. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 2:03 Well, welcome. Well, okay, so how did you all get involved in the Sorin Fellows Student Formation Program? I guess. How about you, John, how did you become a Sorin Fellow? John Hale 2:13 So I came into contact with a few friends who were older, a couple that graduated last year, and they kind of told me about the program when I arrived on campus. And I talked with Pete, the director of the program, and applied during my first semester last year when I was a freshman. And since then, I've been involved with Bread of Life Dinner, the Evangelium Vitae Dinner, did an internship in Rome, and went back to Rome for the youth synod, and am helping organize the coming Bread of Life Dinner. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 2:47 How about you, Emily? Emily Hirshorn 2:48 I say, I think I was a Sorin Fellow before I knew it. I went to lots of events with friends, like, What is this thing? And they're like, Well, why don't you actually become one? Here's the application. So I think that's about sophomore year when I officially joined. And since then, kind of like John said, I've been going to the Bread of Life dinners, Evangelium Vitae dinners. But also have kind of just like, had this connection with all my friends and having a common thing to talk about, based on the events that we're invited to attend has been a really cool way to grow in our faith and intellectual side of it as well. And the Center has also supported travel, like traveling on pilgrimage to Poland this past fall, and also attendance at different conferences like this past March, I went to the FemCatholic Conference. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 3:37 In Chicago? Emily Hirshorn 3:38 In Chicago. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 3:39 Wonderful. How about you, Father Justin? You're a Graduate Mission Fellow. Fr. Justin Brophy 3:43 I'm a Graduate Mission Fellow so you know, my time with the Center goes way back to Flanner Hall, and Professor David Solomon. So when I was an undergrad I was I was always attending the fall conference and hanging around the center. And then it was very formative on me, of course, or deformative, depending on who you ask. But but for the most part, I like to think formative. And when I was applying for graduate school, I heard that the center was looking for mission fellows. And I applied for that. And it's been formative again in a different way. And for me, it's been getting put in touch with a lot of the the visiting scholars that we have here and scholars that come in to speak and who are interested in the Catholic intellectual tradition. And of course, I love the tailgates, too. Plato says that that playfulness is next to godliness. So football's important. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 4:43 Absolutely. Well, what have been some of your favorite Sorin Fellows programs and events or, or in your case, Fr. Justin, some of the favorite things that the Center does throughout the year, you've kind of began to hint at them a bit. Fr. Justin Brophy 4:55 Yeah. So I mean, there's always the Fall Conference is always a highlight. I love the Fall Conference. It's so interdisciplinary, which I love. I come from a Great Books background. So I love the fact that I have so many serious scholars who are willing to engage the Catholic intellectual tradition from a variety of perspectives. That's always fantastic. And I always come back from that conference with a number of things to think about. And the themes are always great. So that's always that's always a big thing. You know, the lectures throughout the year, Evangelium Vitae dinners, always fun. I've been to all of those since I've been here. So yeah. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 5:36 How about you, Miss Emily, what has been some of your favorite things throughout the years? Emily Hirshorn 5:40 Yeah, I think anything CEC related, always has great company and great food. So definitely, like centered around that. The tailgates are a lot of fun in the fall. As well as like, yeah, the different opportunities that cropped up to sharing meals with people visiting. Yeah, those are the things that come to mind. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 6:04 John, you made some references to highlights, but any special things that jumped out at you? John Hale 6:10 Yeah, I definitely concur with with Emily and Fr. Justin, in that stuff, such as the Fall Conference has certainly been very formative and very thought provoking. I think that the single most formative experience for me was the fall break pilgrimage to Rome. I bonded with a lot of Sorin Fellows that I only loosely knew before--a lot of faculty members. I formed a lot of great relationships, and really felt a call to go deeper in my faith. And my life's been significantly impacted as a result of that trip. So I'm very thankful to have had that opportunity. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 6:44 Cool. Well, let's talk a bit about the spring break pilgrimage to Israel, that we all were blessed to participate in. But I guess before we left, what were you most looking forward to? Because I'm pretty sure that when you were on the ground it may have changed. You are what you thought you were looking forward to and what you did. So about, how about you, Emily? Emily Hirshorn 7:07 Yeah, I agree. So the Holy Land has been a place I really wanted and hoped to go to for a long time. I think that's because it's such a crossroads of a lot of aspects of my identity, and also my course of study, in terms of being a Catholic, studying Arabic, and also having Jewish heritage on a side of my family. So yeah, just like really desired to be at a place that seems to bring a lot of these aspects together. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 7:39 Fr. Justin, what, what did you think? Fr. Justin Brophy 7:41 In complete honesty, I did not know what to expect. Obviously, there's a lot of things, a lot of sites that you you look forward to seeing. Certainly the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden of Gethsemani and the Sea of Galilee, Jerusalem itself the city, but really I was I was kind of swimming with work beforehand and preparation beforehand. And so and the excitement of it, I, honestly, I really didn't know what to expect. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 8:21 John? John Hale 8:22 Yeah, just the nature of these CEC events, and of a lot of Notre Dame does in general, it's very multifaceted. And I certainly didn't expect how geopolitically focused our trip would be. But I thought that it was very well presented. And it did a really good job of framing historical events in the context of why they're still relevant and important. And it did, for me, at least, the trip did a really good job of kind of presenting a holistic view of what the Holy Land means and meant back then. And in addition to the bonds, the the obvious friendships that are formed from an experience like that, you go with people for 10 days, and not a lot of sleep. I mean, it's, it was it was a really, I would say, just a very holistic pilgrimage experience. There were there were things to offer up, there's a lot more to be thankful for. And I'm very, I'm a much better person, I think for having had that experience. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 9:22 That's kind of what we were anticipating. But what were some of the actual highlights for you on the ground? John Hale 9:28 Yeah, I'll jump in, I would say. So like Fr. Justin mentioned, the stuff that you expect is Holy Sepulchre, Gethsemane, which are absolutely highlights and things that you need to see. But I find that sometimes on experiences like this, there are things that you don't anticipate that end up shocking you. And one of those things for me was, I believe, the second or third day, we went up into the Golan Heights, and we were on Mount Bental. And overlooking, we could see in one in one frame of the eye could see the slopes of Lebanon, you could see a quarry and a city in Syria. And we were standing in Israel. And if you could've moved the mountain, you would have seen Jordan. So I think that just being in such a diverse location, and we could see probably 1500 feet in front of us, like farms, where we're our guide said that ISIS was just five months prior to us being there. And that was pretty mind blowing and stuff that you see on the news. And it just, it really, really took my breath away that you so much suffering had gone on there. And here we are right now. And it was it was opportunity to pray for peace and healing, and also just very eye opening in that these events are real, and they impact real lives. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 10:45 Emily, how about you? What were some highlights on the ground? Emily Hirshorn 10:48 Yeah, I'd say I was immediately struck by the beauty of Israel. Imagination has always been a part of my life like I was imaginative as a kid. And also the way my prayer is shaped is really through images. So I really didn't expect how powerful it would be to be able to see and experience and like smell and taste like aspects of the Holy Land. And see that kind of color, the way that now I can receive and hear the Word of God in Mass. So like, being able to pray morning prayer in front of the Sea of Galilee, like we sang the Canticle of Daniel. And it seemed like when we called out the names of the earth and water creatures and the birds like they like kind of lept out and were responding to that prayer. So that was really beautiful, and powerful to pray in that way with the backdrop right there. And I also say I was really touched by the ways that we're able to learn about Judaism throughout the week, in particular, praying at the Western Wall, and really feeling as Christians there with also the Jewish women there, like we were all like seeking to find God's presence there. And like praying for restoration of a temple, of course, and like different understandings, but yet also like a similar understanding too. And yeah, Shabbat dinner was just like, really fun. And I felt very at home there. So yeah, those are some of the things that really touched my heart. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 12:23 Fr. Justin, you celebrated Mass for us every day. And I mean, including, you know, in the tomb of the Lord – but not to lead the witness. But what were some highlights for you? Fr. Justin Brophy 12:37 Yeah, so there were two. I mean, there's so there's more than two, there were tough. But there's two that stick out. And first, as you say, was Mass in the Holy Sepulchre. And, you know, the altar is essentially the the stone slab on, on which the body of Christ laid. And that was really powerful and profound singing or saying a Votive Mass of the resurrection. And then taking communion from the tomb out to the people was just deeply symbolic and powerful, for me. It was really cool. The second thing that that was really amazing, was it wasn't one place in particular, but it started on day one or two, I think day two when we were at Mount Beatitude. And for me, it was just realizing how right St. Dominic got Jesus Christ, to really see Jesus as a wandering preacher. To see the places where he preached and to see the things that he preached about; mustard plants, and rocky soil and rich soil. These are things I knew intellectually, but to see it, and to experience it emotionally. It was just a different, a different experience altogether. And it made me feel closer to Christ, made me feel closer to my father, Dominic, and that was a really profound takeaway for me. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 14:14 Yeah. Each day, well, not every day, obviously, because we were busy and on the go, you know, almost constantly, but there were a few days when we had a chance just to sit down and pray or journal, or really, I just kind of looked and I watched, you know, students doing these things and just kind of smelling and looking and, and listening, for me was a real highlight that, that. I mean, I kind of take away because that's this idea of meditation. Not quite contemplation. It wasn't, it wasn't quite there. But still, yeah, an amazing experience. What are some things that you've taken away or that you that you expect, you're going to remember most? John Hale 15:00 I can tell you one, one personal story was when you're at Nazareth. And there's an inscription on the altar in the cave, where the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary. And it says, "The Word became flesh here." And I know, Ken had been leading us in Angelus every day. And it was kind of a priming of us for this moment. And the words of the Angelus actually changed to reflect the location of the Church of the Annunciation, and I guess of the Incarnation. And for, I'm actually taking Professor Cavadini's class, and we're talking about how the, the Word became flesh. And to see like the Word became flesh HERE, really just synthesized a lot of different things for me. And it's something that I won't forget. And I actually opened up Luke's Gospel. And I read that God said to the angel, Gabriel, go to Nazareth of Galilee, which is where we were. And it was just incredible that it's an actual place on the map that God came to in the flesh. That was very powerful for me. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 16:06 We had that "death march" afterward, it seemed, to lunch, which was one of the best lunches we had. John Hale 16:12 The bread was out of this world. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 16:16 And we had those... the macaroons, John Hale 16:19 oh, yeah. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 16:20 They were like eating a cloud. John Hale 16:22 I had about 12. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 16:27 How about you, Emily, what's your takeaway? Emily Hirshorn 16:31 I guess, one thing I've been thinking a lot about is the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, like being up there and seeing the view. And kind of like, the first time really getting it. Being like, wow, it is so good that we are here, I don't want to leave. Like can I just stay? And coming back from pilgrimage was also especially difficult in that way, like, especially like, experiencing Christ in such a real and personal way, and then coming back and then going, alright we're back to school back, to the daily life. So I guess that has challenged me to find Christ more in the everyday in the more ordinary mundane things. But when I need nourishment, or a reminder of him, just like closing my eyes, and like trying to picture him in the scenes that we were, and like finding new comfort in that. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 17:23 Father Justin? Fr. Justin Brophy 17:25 So the experience of being a priest in the Holy Land was really, really profound. And, of course, you know, as a priest, I'm privileged enough to exercise that priesthood everywhere I am, and anytime I want, and well, not anytime I want, but every time period. But I mean, to hear Confessions on the Sea of Galilee and to pray morning prayer at the Sea of Galilee, and to say Mass, where miracles occurred, and where Christ was buried. It was really, it was really special. To think this is where it all began. This is where everything began. This is where the Lord exercises ministry, this is where the apostles first performed the sacraments, that was really special for me. And of course, you know, the group of students we brought, were just unbelievably awesome. So it was great to, to be there with them. And they were so edifying to me, so that was great. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 18:32 Well, and that's actually how this particular conversation started. Was, Emily and John, the three of us were in one row on the airplane on the way over and because it was a rickety old airplane that didn't have TV or anything like that any of the modern conveniences. And I know this sounds like a real first world problem. But we started talking about this idea of, of having a conversation when we get back. So where do you guys go from here? Actually, you know, kind of impractical. What are you doing this summer? John Hale 19:03 This summer? I'm going to be interning actually at the federal district court in Detroit, and then tentatively doing some research in the Archdiocese of Sydney, Australia with Archbishop Anthony Fisher, who's a Dominican. Yeah, that's right. Like Father Justin. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 19:17 We met him in Rome. John Hale 19:18 In Rome. That's right. That was the genesis of that. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 19:20 Oh, far out. John Hale 19:21 Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. And then I'll probably be five, five days a week at the court and then weekends get a little restaurant, hustle or something to supplement? Yeah de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 19:33 Emily, you're going to graduate? Emily Hirshorn 19:35 Yeah. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 19:36 What are you going to go off and do? And I know this is a fraught question, isn't it? Emily Hirshorn 19:40 Well, the day after graduation, I'm going to be traveling to East Africa with the folk choir. We're going to go on pilgrimage to Tanzania, Uganda and Kenya. And then a couple day turnaround, I'm coming back to campus for the summer to serve for the second time as a Vision mentor for Notre Dame Vision. And then after that, I'll be moving home and working in Connecticut as a compliance analyst for AQR Capital Management. So that's one thing Fr. Justin Brophy 20:09 that's it? Emily Hirshorn 20:12 Really maximizing the summer. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 20:17 Fr. Justin, you're continuing to write? Fr. Justin Brophy 20:19 I yeah, that's, I'm continuing to write, continuing to preach. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 20:24 Awesome. Fr. Justin Brophy 20:24 Who woulda thought? de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 20:27 Well, friends, this has been a delightful conversation. Thank you so much for coming. And thanks for making this pilgrimage and, and being part of the Sorin Fellows Program. John Hale 20:35 Thank you. Fr. Justin Brophy 20:36 Thank you. Emily Hirshorn 20:37 Thank you. Fr. Justin Brophy 20:38 So when do we take our live callers? Emily Hirshorn 20:42 I'm glad we were put in the same row of the airplane. de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture 20:52 Thank you to John, Emily and Father Justin for the marvelous conversation. Find links to information about the Sorin Fellows Program, as well as some Facebook memories from the trip in the show notes. Subscribe to Ethics and Culture Cast so that you can always get the latest episodes by visiting ethicscenter.nd.edu/podcast. We would love your feedback. Please give us a review wherever you get your podcasts and email your suggestions to cecpodcast@nd.edu. Our theme music is "I Dunno" by grapes, licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution license. We'll see you next time on Ethics and Culture Cast. Until then, make good decisions. Transcribed by https://otter.ai