EPISODE 232

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] LM: Okay, everybody. By now we're pretty much aware that it's Pediatric Feeding Disorder Awareness Month and it's also Better Speech and Hearing Month. But it is also Asian Pacific Islander Awareness Month. 

And did you know, ASHA has a caucus to support the 3% of our colleagues that identify as an Asian Pacific Islanders? And 3%, that boggles my mind because we serve a population that is so much more diverse than that. 

When I found out that we have a caucus to support our colleagues and support ourselves that are monolingual SLP serving a diverse population, well, I recruited them and begged them to come on. But I also have to give a very heartfelt gratitude to two women in this caucus that are actually not in today's interview but have mentored me and brought me so much joy and laughter over the last actual couple of years of my life. 

First, I want to thank Dr. Grace Hao, who is the chair of North Carolina Central University, for her mentorship, for her sponsorship, for always being a ray of sunshine. And I will treasure our moments together in [inaudible 00:01:31]. I had a blast. And, y'all, she is a phenomenal lecturer. And one of her passion projects is transgender voice therapy. And so, I highly recommend if you can ever take a course by her, soak it up, baby. 

Also, I have to give a heartfelt thank you to Dr. Rebecca Wada, who is a speech-language pathologist and assistant professor at Francis Marion University. And she is the first person ever appointed in the new role for vice president for Diversity, Equity Inclusivity and Accessibility with SCSHA, South Carolina Speech Hearing Association. 

Becca, I am so proud of the work that you're doing and the advocacy that you live and breathe. Also, the boys want to know, when are you coming to play with that sweet baby? 

Ladies, thank you for being you. Y'all, I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. Honestly, we geeked out with the guests and we spent another hour after the recording just talking about therapy. They'll be back this fall to talk more about therapy because they're both AAC specialists working with neurodivergent populations. 

There it is. Happy day, y'all. Happy day. 

[00:03:03] MD: Hi, folks, and welcome to First Bite: Fed, Fun, and Functional. A Speech Therapy podcast sponsored by SpeechTherapyPD.com. I am your host on this nerd venture, Michelle Dawson, MS, CCC-SLP CLC, the All-Things PFDs SLP. 

I am a colleague in the trenches of home health and early intervention right there with you. I run my own private practice, Hartwood Speech Therapy, here in Colu Town, South Carolina. And I guest lecture nationwide on best practices for early intervention for medically complex graduates. First BiteÕs mission is short and sweet; to bring light, hope, knowledge, and joy to the pediatric clinician, parent, or advocate.

[00:03:51] EF: By way of a nerdy conversation, so there's plenty of laughter too.

[00:03:55] MD: In this podcast, we cover everything from AAC to breastfeeding.

[00:04:00] EF: Ethics on how to run a private practice.

[00:04:03] MD: Pediatric dysphagia to clinical supervision.

[00:04:06] EF: And all other topics in the role of pediatric speech pathology. Our goal is to bring evidence-based practice straight to you by interviewing subject matter experts.

[00:04:15] MD: To break down the communication barriers, so that we can access the knowledge of their fields.

[00:04:20] EF: Or, as a close friend says, ÒTo build the bridge.Ó

[00:04:24] MD: By bringing other professionals and experts in our field together, we hope to spark advocacy, joy, and passion for continuing to grow and advance care for our little ones.

[00:04:36] EF: Every fourth episode, I join. I'm Erin Forward, MSP, CCC-SLP, the Yankee by way of Rochester, New York, transplant who actually inspired this journey. I bring a different perspective, that of a new-ish clinician with experience in early intervention, pediatric acute care, and non-profit pediatric outpatient settings.

[00:04:56] MD: So sit back, relax, and watch out for all heart growth and enjoy this geeky gig brought to you by SpeechTherapyPD.com.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:05:10] MD: All right, everybody. We all know the backstory of May being Better Speech and Hearing month. But May in and of itself represents so much more than that. May also has Pediatric Feeding Disorder Awareness Month. But it is also, correct me if I'm wrong, ladies, the Asian American History Month. Is that correct?

[00:05:33] AS: Asian-American Pacific Islander Heritage Month. 

[00:05:36] MD: There it is. Okay. See? And I am crushing the podcasting today, y'all. But that's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about the Asian-American Pacific Islander Caucus. And here's the why. Because most of us that are working professionals, I believe it is 92% predominantly Caucasian female speech-language pathologists. And that is not reflective of the patients that we have been called to serve. 

Also, y'all, let's just admit it, we don't know what we don't know. And most of us don't even realize that ASHA has a plethora of caucuses. And those caucuses raise awareness about issues that are near and dear to their members' hearts, right? And a lot of advocacy and education. 

The back story on this one is that last year at ASHA, I was volunteering at the SpeechTherapyPD.com booth and I sat across from or stood across from the ASHA caucus section. And there were all these different caucuses. And the Asian Pacific Islander Caucus Ð did I say this right now? Asian Pacific Islander Caucus? Yeah. They were diagonally across from me, next to the LGBTQIA+, and next to the disability caucus. I was like, "How do we not know that these caucuses exist?Ó 

I beg, borrow, pleaded, sent off a couple of emails, and was like, "Can I please shine your light and make us better?" And then proceeded to tell all my students about it because my graduate students need to know this. And these lovely ladies have agreed to come on. And I'm very thrilled about that. Without further ado, I get to highlight our guests. The first guess is Archie Soelaeman. Did I do it right? 

[00:07:25] AS: Soelaeman. 

[00:07:28] LM: Oh, so close. And, y'all, I practiced. I'm so sorry. Archie Soelaeman. She is the co-president of the Asian Pacific Islander Speech-Language-Hearing Caucus. She's also the manager of School Speech Language Services and has been an SLP at a therapeutic day school in the Chicago area. Her focus area is on AAC, which Ð I love AAC. That is like a passion project of mine. We don't need to start with PECS, everybody. If you have a PECS board, we can go to current evidence-based practice. And I won't go any further down that rabbit hole, because life. 

Okay. And then our next guest is Nadhiya Ito. Did I do it right, Nadhiya? Nadhiya Ito? 

[00:08:09] NI: Yes. 

[00:08:10] MD: Beautiful. And she's a speech-language pathologist and clinical supervisor in LA. And she's a vice president and current advisory board member for the Asian Pacific Islander Speech-Language-Hearing Caucus and Ð 

[00:08:23] NI: Past vice president. 

[00:08:25] MD: Past vice president. Yes. This will help if I Ð I have my readers right here. I should have put them on. And she also focuses on AAC working with autistic and neurodiverse populations, and is a member of SIG 14, which is the multicultural special interest group, if that is correct. 

Basically, y'all, their CVs read like the incredibly empowered badass women that they are and I get to interview them. So, yay. Hi. Who wants to go first? How did you become a speech-language pathologist? Tell us all of the things.

[00:09:02] AS: Well, I'll go first because I won't be able to beat Nadhiya's story. But I was a pre-dental major in college and then I decided I didn't want to be a dentist anymore because I wanted people to like me and people usually don't want to go to the dentist. Then I looked through the course catalog to see what other major I can look at that will still take all my credits so that I can graduate on time. And then I took an intro class to speech. And I think it was communication sciences and disorders. And I loved it. And so, here I am. 

[00:09:38] MD: Okay. Wait. What school did you go to? Where'd you go for undergrad and grad school? 

[00:09:42] AS: I went to Michigan State for my undergrad and then Northwestern for grad school. And Northwestern was what brought me to the Chicago land area. 

[00:09:50] MD: Nice. Nice. I've honestly never heard it called Chicago land area. I've heard it called Chicago and I know there's deep-dish pizza and you need a fork, and if you break those rules, then you are not participating and supporting the greater Chicago area. 

[00:10:06] AS: I have never seen anyone pick up a slice of Chicago deep-dish pizza and eat it. But that would be something interesting to see I would say. 

[00:10:15] MD: I tried one time. I was out there lecturing. I was like, "How do you Ð this is not Ð" and everybody, they're like, "You're not from around here." I was like, "No. No, ma'am, I am not." 

Okay. So then, can I ask what is your personal cultural background? And how did you get into API? 
[00:10:34] AS: All right. I kind of grew up in both Indonesia and the States. I just kind of went back and forth. I'm Indonesian and I got into the Caucus back in 2019, late 2019. And I'm like, "Oh, there's an API Caucus. This is pretty cool." I joined. But I kind of put it on the back burner. 

And then in 2020 when the whole world kind of shut down, then my day-to-day changed a little bit, a lot a bit, with having to do everything, telepractice, and figuring life out from home. And then the murder of George Floyd happened. And then the API Caucus created a group called The Antiracism Learning Community so that we can learn how to all be antiracist. And so, that's how I got even more into the API caucus. And then at the end of that year when some on-board positions opened up, I ran and I got the position. That's how I got really involved with the caucus. 

[00:11:40] MD: I love that. But see, that's Ð folks, you've heard me say it on the podcast in the past. If with one breath you recognize a problem, a point of failure in society, within our profession, don't stop with that one breath. Don't just voice your concern or complain about it. It is what you do with that second breath, thatÕs how we drive change. That's how we make the world better. 

And you may not think that you can. But trust me, reach out to a caucus that represents you and what's near to your heart. Reach out to your state association. Volunteer your time. Because there are little ways that all of these associations and caucuses, they can just plug you in, "Hey Ð" and you don't even know it exists until you reach out. 

Everybody, take a big deep breath for that second one and then hold tight. Okay. Nadhiya, yay. Tell us about you. Because I heard good things about the story beforehand. So, now I really want to know. 

[00:12:43] NI: Well, I'm just going to quickly mention about my background first. I'm half Japanese and half Sri Lankan. My mom is Japanese. And my brother and I grew up in Japan until I was about 14. And my family moved to Sri Lanka where I lived for about five and a half years. 

But when I was a senior in high school Ð and I used to typically take a taxi home. But I just happened to find a bus, an empty bus, stop in front of me. And if you imagine, if you think about buses in Sri Lanka or India, you see a lot of people hanging from the bus. Or you may imagine things like that. I usually never took a bus. But I happened to hop on a bus. It was an empty bus. And there was this Caucasian lady sitting on the bus.

Now if you know anything about Sri Lanka at that time, that's, well, a long, long time ago, but you wouldn't see a foreigner on a bus unless you were my mother. My mother would get on the bus and go anywhere. But I happened to sit next to her and I asked her, "What are you doing on a bus in Sri Lanka?" And she said, "Well, I'm a speech therapist from the UK." And I was like, "Oh, what is that?" 

I wanted to do medicine. I was a senior in high school, as I said before, and I was thinking about pursuing medicine. But she really intrigued me. And she mentioned to me that, at that time, I think it was like 1998, there was only one speech pathologist in the whole country of Sri Lanka. And she was there helping develop that program there. Currently, it's a bachelor's degree program at one university there. She was telling me how rewarding and fulfilling her work was. And so, I went home, went online, looked it up, and the rest is history. That's how I became a speech pathologist. 

[00:14:31] MD: That literally was your sign. My kid brother was born with a cleft of his lip that extended into his right nare. It was a unilateral cleft. But my stepmom got electrocuted when she was pregnant. She was changing out the toggly part of a light switch, the piece that you flip up and down, and she was seven months pregnant, and then something happened and she missed. There was like bad wiring. I don't know the full story. She got shocked pretty badly. He was born with dysarthria, not apraxia, and didn't talk until he was four. 

And then Ms. Zafranski, Caitlyn was her daughter, her and I were ballerinas together. I have no rhythm. I was the worst ballerina ever. Broke my big toe three times doing ballet because I am that not graceful. But God almighty, I had a blast, right? 

But Ms. Zafranski was his speech therapist. And it was so cool as like 13, 14-year-old girl to see Ethy. His name's Ethan. But he always said Ethy because he couldn't say Ethan. So like, Ethy learned to talk. And it was just amazing. And so, that was it. And then I took a dysphagia class and was like, "That's cool.Ó So, stuck. Yes. Okay. 

Oh, I love this. Okay. We have so many questions to cover and my ADHD is just like already flying because I have a lot of personal questions. But, Archie, let's start with you. You are currently on the API caucus board. And Nadhiya, you were previously on the board. Take us from the beginning. Give us the story of this caucus and how it came to be. 

[00:16:19] AS: Well, the caucus was founded by Dr. Lilly Cheng in 1985. We've been around for actually quite a while.

[00:16:26] MD: 30 years, because I just turned 40, I know that. 

[00:16:32] AS: Yes. Yeah. We've been around for quite a little bit. And then, actually, our long name is the Asian Pacific Islander Speech-Language-Hearing Caucus. But people usually just know us as the API Caucus. About 6,300 SLPs and audiologists identify as coming from an API background, and this also encompasses East Asia, Southeast Asia, South Asia, and then also the Pacific Islands, and that also includes native Hawaiians. 

Compare the 6,300 SLPs and audiologists from this background to about 223,000 members of ASHA. That puts us at 3% of the whole ASHA constituency who come from this background. 

[00:17:23] MD: That is not enough representation. We have to Ð yes. 

[00:17:28] AS: Yeah. It's a little gap. It's a big gap. 

[00:17:35] MD: And in my hat as Ð I can't announce it yet. But I have a new position I'm starting on July 1. And it immediately makes me think, "Okay. So how can we make this better?" I'll focus back again. But, yes. Yes. 

Okay. And this was a question that I had when we started, the different languages that were represented. Because this is an incredibly diverse population that you're Ð and also, I go into how many different faiths does that represent too, right? That's a lot. 
[00:18:03] AS: That's a lot. Right now, within this group, we speak at least 48 languages. But I'm sure that there are also other dialects too that people speak, just because, in Indonesia, the major languages, for example, Bahasa Indonesian or Indonesian, but there's also Japanese and Sundanese and all the other Ð they call them dialects. But they're like completely different languages. If you speak some of those languages, then you have even more languages. 

And then, Nadhiya, you speak multiple languages too. 

[00:18:36] NI: Yes. Well, my first language is Japanese. I do speak a dialect of the Tamil, which is Ð I speak a Sri Lankan dialect and I understand some other languages here and there. 

[00:18:48] MD: When you have a meeting, what is the predominant language that's spoken in the meeting? 

[00:18:53] AS: I mean, most of our members, we just speak English for all of our meetings, and that's the thing. We'll talk about this later on too, is that we invite anyone and everyone to come and join our caucus meetings. We do meet like virtually every so often and then we also always have a meeting at ASHA. 

[00:19:14] MD: Nice. Is it like a pre-con meeting? Like a pre-convention meeting? Or Ð 

[00:19:18] NI: Actually, the meeting is on Thursdays where we meet. ASHA has the Multicultural Collective Concerns, MC2. Our meetings take place right before. It's our annual meeting. 

[00:19:34] MD: There are so many meetings that occur at ASHA that it's hard when you serve in a bunch of Ð you're like, "Oh, how did it go? Can't get to class right now. I'll see you later." And then you're just bolting down the hallway like trying to make it to the next one. Yes. Yes. 

Do you all have numbers on how many different faiths are represented within the caucus? 

[00:19:51] NI: We haven't really talked about faiths. I think there's a variety. There's a lot I would say. 
[00:19:58] AS: Yeah, I would say that there's a lot. Yeah. 

[00:20:00] MD: That's something that I always find very intriguing just because, I mean, I'm a woman of faith. I grew up Southern Baptist. But the whole Ð in our particular denomination, women were supposed to be submissive, and not work and not be employed. And I don't do well with that philosophy for a lot of reasons. 

We changed to a Methodist church. And then when my husband and I got married, we joined a Lutheran Church, right? And they have an Oktoberfest where they drink beer in public. And that just jives with my life choices. And so Ð I'm joking. But it works for our personal beliefs. 

Wearing that hat, faith is a part of who I am when I go into other homes. And I know our traditions and parts of our culture around meal time and breaking bread. And when I treat PFD, that's a very intimate thing. When I go in Ð and I always try to seek to understand what is your faith background, and how do you break bread with your people, right? And so, that we can embed that within our treatments. 

Because I had a family that was from India years ago where they wanted the little one to drink from a cup but the cup couldn't touch his lip. I had never heard of that part of their culture before. And that was a very Ð this is very difficult because we also had some hemiparesis and some things. It was a good OTP workaround. But I always kind of wonder about that. But yes. Okay. Tell me more about API. 

[00:21:33] AS: I think ASHA just recognizes API Caucus as just one group. But, essentially, we're people from a lot of different areas. I mean, Asia, if you think about, it is a very large continent. And there's like mainland Asia. And then we also have like thousands of little islands too. We're just seen as one group, but really, we're a lot of different subgroups. Kind of grouped Ð 

[00:21:58] NI: Yeah, and our diversity within the group is not really recognized at the moment. That's what we are working on; to spread awareness and advocate not only for us as professionals but, of course, for our clients as well, because representation really matters. 

[00:22:21] MD: Yes, ma'am. It does. Yes. Yes. Okay. Then, if wearing as a Ð I mean, I am part Cherokee and I'm registered with Potawatomi, but I am a Caucasian white female. And I have all that comes with it and limited knowledge outside of this face, right? And this lived experience. 

But when I go to work with individuals that don't have that background, how can we do better? How can we learn? You were talking about an antiracist league or a component that y'all set up at the beginning.

[00:23:02] AS: Yeah. That was one of the things that we do as a caucus, we do have our Antiracism Learning Community. We try to meet once a month and we discuss what's happening right now and what are some ways that we can all learn as a group to become antiracists, and that's not just in regards to the Asian population. But we were really focusing on Ð the murder of George Floyd was what kind of got that ball rolling for the Antiracism Learning Community. We just kind of wanted to make sure that we're being antiracist all together. 

[00:23:38] MD: Are there webinars? Are there tutorials that members can access online about that? Or are there materials to support and grow non-members' knowledge? 

[00:23:50] AS: That's actually a good point. Right now, we don't have a database where we're posting the meeting notes or anything like that. But we've like watched videos together. We've watched videos. Then, we discussed what we watched and what we've learned. 

For example, I think one of the ones that we watched recently was a video on how sometimes there's also racism within the Asian community. That was the first video that we watched and then the second one was how can Ð it was a group of people who were basically pushing to help teach their community so that we can be a part of antiracist communities. 

We watched videos and we learned from the videos or sometimes we also get articles. When Ð in 2020, when a lot of people were home, we had a book club as part of the ALC or Antiracism Learning Community meeting where we were reading I think the Ibram Kendi book, How To Become an Antiracist or something like that. I can't really Ð I'm not 100% of the title. But we were all like reading that book together and then discussing it and how we can all become an antiracist. 
It's a pretty interesting group and anyone is able to join. Yeah. Our next meeting is actually after this recording, next week. It'll be after the recording. The recording Ð it would have happened after this recording is released. But we will hopefully have another one usually like at the end of the month. But people can always go to our website where they can see the Antiracism Learning Community and things like that too. 

[00:25:31] MD: That's awesome. That's a beautiful resource to have because Ð mm-hmm. I mean, we, as a general rule of thumb, watch very limited news in our house just because I have little ones that I'm trying to protect. And a lot of the news is very ugly. I'm not ready for them to be exposed to the amount of hate that's really in the world. There's a fine line between educating and advocating for your children and protecting their mental health, you know? 

But I was aware that last year that there was a successive attack on Asian Americans, especially over in California. And that was something that was discussed deeply within our home. Because prior to moving to Virginia, our children attended a Mandarin immersion school. For the last three years, half their day was taught in Chinese, in Mandarin. And so, this is near and dear to our hearts. 

And it was affiliated with the University of South Carolina, like a lot of Ð a lot of faculty consulted, and came in and pushed in. The fact that y'all do that is just Ð it's wonderful. 

Okay. So then, Nadhiya, what are your favorite parts in how the caucus helps members and advocates for the patients that we serve? 

[00:26:50] NI: That's a big question. But I can start by talking about how I became a part of the caucus. The first time I joined our caucus was when I was a senior in college, I went to my first ASHA in Atlanta Georgia with my friends. And at that time, I was at Missouri State University. That's where I did my undergrad. And I had read an article by Dr. Lilly Cheng, who happens to be the founder of the caucus. 

But I didn't really know about the caucus until I saw her at a convention. She was walking in front of me and I recognized her because I had read her article. I ran after her. I introduced myself. You know me. I was in Missouri. So, I didn't really see other professors who were of the diverse background. And I was really excited because I'm Asian and she's a scholar with an Asian background. And I introduced myself. 

She took time to talk to me and she asked me what my background was. And she said, "Oh, we have an API caucus meeting tonight. Why don't you come?" That's how I started. That's like 21 years ago, right? I think. 

It was a small intimate group of professors and students. And what stood out for me was she said, "Because of our backgrounds and differences, we can make a difference in other people's lives." And that was so impactful for me. And so, when I applied to grad school, I really wanted to study with her. I went to San Diego State. And she was a professor there. And she's still my mentor. 

[00:28:27] MD: It's that one-to-one. Isn't it amazing how that one-to-one touch, that personal invite can be a part of this? Can really profoundly change us? 

[00:28:38] NI: I do remember we starting so small. And now, Archie, what's the membership? How many members do we have right now? We have a lot of members. 

[00:28:45] AS: I want to say Ð I mean, right now on our mailing list, we have over Ð I think we have over a thousand for our mailing list. I don't know the exact number. But yeah. 

[00:28:53] NI: And our meetings used to be like eight people, ten people when I joined in. We've grown so much. And we still continue to grow. 

[00:29:02] MD: Have you guys had a convention yet? I mean, coming fresh hot off in [inaudible 00:29:05], I'm like, "Do you all have a convention?" Because I want to come to an API convention. 

[00:29:11] NI: No. No. We don't Ð 

[00:29:12] AS: We're not there yet. 

[00:29:14] AS: We're not there yet. Not quite there yet. But we do have Ð 

[00:29:17] NI: But we do have pretty amazing social hour, I think bi-monthly or so, virtually. 

[00:29:25] MD: I'm always down for a good social hour. That's fantastic. But, yes. Yeah. And also, I love how you qualified Òyet.Ó But that's huge, having dreams. 

[00:29:35] AS: And then we also have an API Speaker Series. We don't have an actual like convention. But we do host Speaker Series events. And like last year, I think they were all free and then we would just take donations if anyone has the funds and would like to support our caucus. But we've like hosted different API Speaker Series. 

I believe the last one that we did was highlighting the voices of Pacific Islander Ð yeah, highlighting Pacific Islander voices. And then if you go to our website, you should be able to find the link to that YouTube recording. Obviously, you won't be able to get CEUs because it's on YouTube. But you should be able to still view the content of the course.

[00:30:17] MD: And I love how you have your goals and your mission statements right there front and center. This is lovely. Okay. Folks, if you're listening and not driving, they have an Instagram account, a Facebook page, and a hyperlink right on their homepage to their YouTube series as well. That's all there. And it's apislhc.org. So that's there. But again, not if you're driving. 

Okay. Continue. What is your Ð I have to remind myself especially when I'm driving like, "Oh, that's really cool. No. Focus, Michelle." Okay. What are your joy moments? Y'all have been part of it for a period of time. What initiatives are y'all most proud of seeing happening? Or what big initiatives are y'all planning in the near future? I'm off-script here. Sorry. But I just get excited. 

[00:31:12] AS: Okay. The one that's really coming up soon right now would be the API Heritage Month. Where, right now, we're going to be posting. We're going to be posting a lot of different things on social media. We have our members submit different entries. We have like six different themes. And so, you should be able to check it out. 

One of our board members kind of puts together all of these videos. Ray, he's really great with the social aspect of our caucus. And then also putting all of these social media videos together. You should be able to view some of those on our Instagram as well as our Facebook. 

We have that this month. Because May, again, is API Heritage Month. And like I mentioned, we're really proud of our Speaker Series events that you can view on our website. And then you should be able to Ð also, if you join our caucus, then you'll get our newsletter. And then within that newsletter, you'll see what's coming up. And that does include like hey announcement. We have the Antiracism Learning Community meeting coming up. Or we have this Speaker Series event. We have the social hour. You'll get all of that information from the newsletter if you do join our caucus. 

And like what Nadhiya said, we do have those social hours. Our last one was on breathwork and meditation. Because, actually, April is Stress Awareness Month if I'm not mistaken. It's like Mental Health and Stress Awareness Month? We had Ð I can't remember her Ð Dr. Lynn? We had Dr. Lynn led that social hour. And she helped us with some breath work and meditation strategies, which I think most of the participants kind of felt super relaxed by the end and wanted to just take a nap. That was a really great social hour. 

[00:33:01] MD: That's lovely. Yes. 

[00:33:03] NI: The initiatives that we take are also the Graduate Student Panel, which we do in the fall. We invite, of course, all of us who went to grad school, sharing information as to what was helpful in applying. We do have some professors from different universities come in talk to the students about what they're looking for in prospective students. We do have that in the fall. We also have a mentorship program where we pair students and mentors with similar interests. And of course, also cultural and linguistic backgrounds as well. 

[00:33:41] MD: Oh, that's phenomenal. Oh, my gosh. In [inaudible 00:33:46], the first course I went to Ð I haven't unpacked my notes. It's over there. I've literally got home yesterday and just dropped the luggage and just came in we get to work unboxing the house. But the very first talk that I went to is by two professors from Arkansas, University of Arkansas Health Science School. I can't remember the second half. But they were talking about the support of BIPOC students and how they created Ð they presented research on their BIPOC initiative. 

And so, BIPOC stands for Black indigenous people of color. And supporting Ð and they were talking about the attrition rate of BIPOC graduate students because they felt isolated and alone. And that there's internal gatekeeping. And they analyzed all the potential barriers. And the biggest solution to having students that are recognized as BIPOC feel supported was creating a safe space. Giving them support. 

And so, mentorship is profound. And wearing a professor hat, my next thought is, "Okay. How do we do that?" Especially at a PWI, predominantly white institute, how do we create a safe space especially when your current students are almost 100% Caucasian, right? That's so much to unpack and that thought process. But how? What were y'all's personal Ð that's a very intimate question. If you're comfortable with answering it. But what were y'all's personal experiences in school like? 

[00:35:24] AS: In grad school or Ð 

[00:35:26] MD: Yes. Either. Grad school, undergrad. 

[00:35:29] AS: I mean, I think undergrad, the majority of the individuals within my cohort were Caucasian. And then the same thing also with grad school. And then in grad school I know, like within like that first week, all the second years were doing the screening. Speech and hearing screening for everyone. And then to see if anyone needed some additional assistance during the course of the program. But, yeah. The majority of my cohort were also of Caucasian background. 

We did have actually I think more Asian I would say. I think there were three other individuals within my cohort from an Asian background. But, yeah, majority of it was Caucasian. 

[00:36:15] NI: Same with me too. I went to Missouri State for my undergrad. And the majority of my cohort was of Caucasian descent. I think I had two other international student classmates. Because being multilingual, and I wanted to be able to work with a culturally diverse population, I wanted to be able to study more about multiculturalism, bilingualism. And so, I decided to move to California. 

[00:36:43] MD: Was grad school predominantly white? Or did you have more diversity?

[00:36:47] NI: I would say yes. But we did have a few Spanish-speaking classmates. And San Diego State also had Ð what is that?  a bilingual certificate program. 

[00:36:57] MD: What? That's cool. 

[00:36:59] NI: Yeah. That was one of the things that interested me. Although, I didn't pursue it because I spoke Japanese and I didn't speak Spanish. But in the university clinic, I did have some Japanese-speaking clients, which was really, really neat. I wanted to be able to, yeah, utilize my first language in clinical intervention. And I'm fortunate and glad that I got to do it. 

[00:37:22] MD: Yes. Oh, I will never forget the very first time I got called out to help a family and they were from Ð they spoke Tagalog. Am I saying that right? Tagalog? And South Carolina, the early intervention system, they have interpreters but the interpreters are only Spanish-speaking interpreters and they'll pay for it. And that was Ð I had never heard of the language. I'd never been exposed to it. And the family was Ð they were so patient with me and gave me so much grace while I was learning about how to enter their home and how to be respectful, right? 

And I look back on the first day when I walked in, I came popping in, left my shoes on, didn't wash my hands right away and how I didn't know I was being disrespectful by just being my enthusiastic little cheerful self, right? But they taught me about, "We put our shoes here. We wash our hands here." And bless their grandma who only spoke Tagalog. Every time I came in, she would just smile and nod. And she gave me the look that my grandma gave me when I was like a hot mess express. And it was adorable. But we never could find an interpreter to help. We just had to kind of piecemeal together feeding strategies through that. 

What strategies do y'all have or does API offer for when we go to do formal evaluations? Okay. Again, folks, if you're listening, a single standardized instrument is not a comprehensive eval. Let's put that out there. But what tools do you all recommend that we consider and use as a predominantly Caucasian profession? Do you see what I'm saying? 

[00:39:03] NI: I think it also depends on who you are evaluating. I know that, here, we do have Spanish-English bilingual assessments. But obviously, we don't have that for all the Asian languages, right? 

I've done a number of bilingual assessments for Japanese-speaking bilingual clients because we don't have that standardized bilingual assessment tools. I have to assist the clients in each of the languages informally. Criterion-based assessment. Kind of establish the skill sets. And that's what I have been doing. 

And Archie, do you have anything you want to add? 

[00:39:45] AS: I haven't had the opportunity to assess the bilingual population. Especially, there's not as many I think Indonesian population here. At least where I'm at in the South West suburbs of Chicago. Plus, the majority of the individuals that I work with are children on the autism spectrum. I'm working more on getting them a mode to communicate their wants and needs effectively. 

But yeah, I would say like probably more of those assessments that are more informal. Just because right now with those standardized tests, they're not standardized to the population from these different backgrounds.

[00:40:28] NI: Correct. Yeah. And then, I think one thing also to remember is one Ð I mean I can only speak Japanese. But one Japanese-English bilingual person is different from another bilingual Japanese-English person. Their exposure to the language is different. Their receptive or expressive language skills may be different from another person. It is very very difficult to establish a test that way. But it has to be individualized. 

And as a caucus, what we also offer is to network with speech pathologists or related professionals that speak the language. We often receive emails or incur inquiries asking, "Oh, do you have anyone who speaks Mandarin who's licensed in Illinois?" for example. 
And even in our Clinic, we do get, yeah, phone calls. For example, in California, we have regional centers. We may receive calls from regional centers requesting for Japanese-speaking speech pathologists or home health agencies. Or some people even have looked me up on the ASHA website and called me. We do have resources like that. And I think we should utilize it.

[00:41:44] MD: Yes, that's amazing. Before, when my children were going to the Mandarin immersion school, I actually had a little one that was on my caseload who was autistic. He's a neurodivergent. And his family, they were faculty at the university or getting their PhD. I can't remember. But Mandarin was the dominant language that was also spoken in the home. And I was like, "I know that the school exists. We may want to consider it. That way, it would support both languages." 

Because I still get the Ð when I go into homes where there are two languages spoken in the home and I'm doing therapy in English. But predominantly, I'm doing caregiver coaching. Every once in a while, I have to do hands-on strategies. But just safe feeding strategies. Or I'll do visual modeling, aided language simulation on like a speech-generating device. But I am just modeling for the caregivers so that they can replicate it. Because long gone are the days of direct service delivery in the birth to three population and the bag of toys that we don't bring into the house anymore. Folks, you don't need to bring the bags of toys into the house. But I'm still coaching, right? 

But having that question, do we need to speak in English? Should we only do therapy in English? And having to coach the caregivers through, ÒSpeak in your first language. Speak in the language that you want to speak in the home.Ó Do you have personal recommendations on how to support our bilingual families if they speak different languages? Or how do I empower them so that they feel that not one culture is less or greater than? Do you see what I'm saying? 

[00:43:23] NI: I would always encourage caregivers or family members to speak in their best language because you want to model the best language, right? Provide the best model for the children. That's what I always say. 

But we often hear Ð even here in California, as diverse as we are, we hear from the parents saying, "Oh, the pediatrician says that we have to speak in English. Or the classroom teacher says that we have to speak in English because we are in America.Ó And I tell them that they are not communication specialists. But we are. We can't expect them to speak to their children English if they don't know English or if they don't feel comfortable speaking it. 

[00:44:02] AS: Yeah. Because the main thing is providing that modeling and the correct way to model things. That just kind of like brings me back to my childhood. Because when I came here, I was in fourth grade and I took English lessons. But they were like, "Susie is riding a bicycle." Right? I knew like how to say Susie is riding a bicycle. But I didn't know how to tell my teacher that I need to go to the bathroom, which was really problematic, right? I need to know [inaudible 00:44:25]. I don't care that Susie's riding a bicycle. I'm at school. 

I remember that summer, before we started school, my mom was like, "Okay, I'm only going to speak to you and your sister in English. And that's it. We're not speaking Indonesian." That summer, I just like spoke in broken English. Took ESL for one year. And then I didn't have to take ESL anymore. But then I essentially kind of like lost my Indonesian until we went back to Indonesia and then I then spoke broken Indonesian. And then, eventually, I regained both languages. And I'm fluent in both again thankfully. 

But yeah, it's just more speaking in that Ð like what Nadia said, in your best language so you can provide the best model. But looking at the families too, there are also different cultural components, especially when we're working with parents from diverse backgrounds. We have to make sure that we have some of that cultural competency and cultural awareness. 

Because, for example, some parents might nod during a conversation. But it doesn't always mean that they're agreeing with you, right? They might just nod but it doesn't mean they're agreeing with you. 

[00:45:33] NI: It's out of respect. We do that in Japanese culture. We nod. It's out of respect Ð 

[00:45:41] MD: We don't interpret it as comprehension or agreement. 

[00:45:45] AS: Exactly. Yeah. Yes. And sometimes too, some professional figures are considered authoritative figures. So the families might not feel comfortable asking questions or communicating with them in general. But it's important to let them know that they're also a part of the treatment process for their child. Because as we know, we go into the home, or they come to the clinic, or they come to school and it's only a tiny part of that child's day. The rest of it is at home with their parents, right? 

The parents are also as much a part of that treatment process for their child. And we're not just the one that's going to come in and wave a magic wand and just fix them, right? Some things also have to happen at home to build that carryover and that generalization for our clients and students. 

[00:46:35] NI: And as you said, many families do regard to professionals, even speech pathologists as authoritative figures. They may not feel comfortable asking questions. Or even with the provision of services, minority families may not get as much services as other counterparts. Because, one, they may not know how to request. They may not know that they could request. 

Many of the Asian cultures are such that, when things are given, we say thank you and we accept it and we don't ask for more. And sometimes they will come to us and say, "Miss Nadhiya, my son was given this much speech therapy at school. But his classmate is getting twice the amount. Why is that?" 

Sometimes some families feel comfortable asking questions to us because we understand their culture and language. And they feel comfortable communicating with us. But they may not do that in other settings. 

I think advocating for families is also a crucial thing. And like Archie said, parents and caregivers are part of the team. This is a team process, right? 

[00:47:45] MD: I feel like, as a general rule of thumb, as therapists, regardless of our backgrounds, we may not always take time during those initial meetings to empower the caregivers and their rights as thoroughly as we should. To say, "Hey, you're allowed due process if you're an IEP." The dog agrees with that. She's very excited about that. If you heard that in the background. 
Or I always make a habit of saying, "Look, I am your current speech pathologist and I know what I know. But as we walk on this journey together, I may not be the therapist that you need in the future. We may just need to work on this one strategy and then you may need more language therapy or phenology therapy." And that's a different therapist. Or you may not like my coaching style. And if you don't, that's okay. I will find somebody who we can refer to that will support you. And it might not be me. 

I remember when I modeled up for a student one time and she was like, "Why did you tell them that they may not like you?" And I'm like, "Well, because they may not like me. I mean, let's be honest. I am a bull in a China shop. This is just how I roll. But we have to be aware of that and empower them to say, "You can change. Different is good." 

[00:49:03] AS: And then I would say too, take the time to explain things to the parents. If you do have any like handouts available, leave that with them so that maybe they can have additional time after you leave to read through some of that material. Maybe then Ð make sure to let them know that, ÒIf you have any questions, make sure that you ask us because we are also a resource to you.Ó Just to make sure too that you're leaving something so they're not like, "Wait, what did they just say?" Again, just so that sometimes they just need a little bit. So parents can have a little bit more time to just kind of comprehend what's happening. 

[00:49:37] NI: Right. And I would also suggest allocating time for questions during a meeting. Because when they're listening and when they're nodding out of respect, they may not be thinking about what kind of questions we can ask, right? But allowing extra time for them to kind of process the information we're presenting especially if it has to do with a new diagnosis or something they're unfamiliar with. They may need more time. And then, also, considering the linguistic differences too. 

[00:50:09] MD: The social piece. That's something that I have had to advocate on behalf of my students before. I've worked with some students from India. And one of them, we had to support her in her practicum and eventually find her a safer place. Because in her culture, she was taught not to make eye contact. And she was working with adults that were inpatient post-CVA and doing dysphagia evals. And she was explaining Ð she came to me and she was like, "My supervisor keeps fussing at me to raise my voice, to speak louder to them,Ó to external rub and all sorts of stuff to kind of wake the patient up to participate. And she's like, "This is not how I was taught to treat the elders in my community. And that's part of who I am. And I am uncomfortable." 

And truth be told, that hadn't Ð I mean, I've worked once upon a time with adults. That was not in my realm of knowledge. And I was like, "Oh, my. No. Then we're going to help support and fix this." But it took crucial conversations, learning. I ended up calling a couple of my colleagues to learn more about Ð that I knew that identified with this culture and this background to grow as a clinician. And then researched and then relayed this over to her clinical sup to say, "Hey, this can't be reflected in her grade. We need to coach and modify and adjust." 

And so, that impacts how we, as clinical supervisors, coach and empower the students in that hat. And Nadhiya, I know you've done clinical supervision. Archie, have you been a clinical supervisor as well? 

[00:51:42] AS: Yeah, I currently have a student right now. 

[00:51:44] MD: Yes. I mean, how Ð in that hat, in that light, if there are individuals that are serving as clinical supervisors, what recommendations do you have for them with working with students that could potentially have different cultural backgrounds? And I don't want anybody to ever have to go through what she went through. You know what I mean? 

[00:52:04] AS: Yeah, I know with my students I usually Ð in the beginning, I'll ask them like, "How would you like to receive feedback?" I think that's one of the first things, right? How do you like to receive feedback? I make sure that they are like observing me and then provide them with time Ð give them time to also ask me questions based on what they saw and how I provided the session. 

And then I'm kind of like a Ð I don't know. Stage-five clinger. I'm usually like right there with my students when they're doing the session just so that I can support them. And in case they need anything, especially with the population that we work with, just to make sure that they're safe and that they're comfortable working with the students. Because a lot of my students do engage in various types of modest behaviors, which is a form of communication. Just not the appropriate way to communicate. But just to make sure that they are students. So they're there to learn, right? 

I want them to learn and not be traumatized by their clinical experience. I just make sure that I'm there. That they have time to ask me questions at any time. And that if I let them know what my expectations are and what they can expect from me too, so that everything is kind of clear from the beginning. 

[00:53:15] NI: I do that too. Yes, that's so important. And I think we can also be mindful of the discourse style. Like certain Asian languages, like Japanese, Korean, Chinese, we tend to be Ð if you're drawing a diagram, it's going to be like going in a circle. In American English, it's very direct, right? 

For example, if somebody is counseling a session, "I'll be counseling the session." They'll tell you that. But in Japanese culture, in Japanese language for example, they will tell you, "Oh, my son woke up this morning and he was coughing a little bit. And when I decided to take a temperature, he had a little fever. And then I thought about it, and maybe he should go to the doctor. I'm going to take him to the doctor. And therefore, we are not coming to the session today." It's kind of like circumlocating and then expecting the listener to infer what they want to tell you. But that's the language style, right? Discourse. 

And I think I'm mindful of how students, or the graduate interns or clinical fellows, they communicate in different discourse styles too. And I do community sometimes going like round and round and round. 

[00:54:17] MD: This is me. 

[00:54:18] NI: I know. My first language is impacting my English. I'm always mindful of that. 

[00:54:24] AS: Yeah. Or as with me, I tell my students that I'm pretty much a direct communicator. So if I tell you something, I'm not mad. I'm not angry. I'm just telling you. And just don't take it personally. I just want to make sure that you're safe and that the student is safe. I think it's, again, letting everyone kind of be aware of both individuals have communication styles. And so, hopefully, no one goes home sad. 

[00:54:51] MD: Yeah. And then Ð grad students are typically sad. Let's be honest. They're always stressed. They're always completely overwhelmed. 

[00:55:03] NI: [inaudible 00:55:03] able to advocate for themselves, you know? That's something we did this semester. Two ladies just graduate Ð I think they're just graduating this week. And for them to be able to advocate for their needs, I know they're taking classes in addition to practicum and preparing for practices or coms. I know it's a lot. There's a lot going on. Yeah. 

[00:55:26] MD: I talk through touch. I mean, have y'all seen me waving my hands around this entire time that we're talking? But like this is how I've seen my dad talk. This is how I saw my grandma talk. And touch is my love language. Have you all ever read The Five Love Languages? 

Yes, I loved this book. And so, acts of service and touch are how I give love, right? But in all cultures, not everybody wants to be touched. And some people just don't want to be touched. Erin, that co-hosts with me, who is my student once upon a time, if I'm hugging you, I am hugging you. We are going to like touch souls for a second, right? 

But bless her heart. Every time I go to hug Erin, Erin, she like taps me. And that's her hug. And she's like my person. But it's really funny, she'll like moderately hug the boys a little bit more because she's basically their aunt, right? But I've had to learn, in different cultures, maybe don't tug everyone on their head. Or don't touch everybody. But like a little part of me dies not being able to do that. But I have to behave myself and learn that that could be disrespectful. But that's just me trying to be me as I like flap away over here. 

[00:56:36] NI: I understand. I'm a hugger too, you know? The Sri Lankan in me tells me, "Oh, I need to hug somebody to express how I feel." But my mother, who's Japanese, she won't hug me. But if I pick her up at the airport, she'll tap me on my shoulder. And I'm like, "Wait. Mommy, I need a hug." You know? There's a cultural thing even within my family, right? 
[00:57:02] MD: Yes. Yes. Oh, I don't know. If you show up at our house, the first thing my step-mama does when we get to meet everybody Ð my family was also bootleggers. There were fun stories back in the day. But when they show up, there's going to be food and there will be a stiff drink. It's kind of pick your poison. And that's how we say hello. 

And I laugh, but the first time Christian met my family, my stepmom had the spread. All the food was out. And she created buttery nipple shots, which is not necessarily the greatest house-welcoming gift to meet a family. But like this is who we are. He was like, "Is that normal?" And I'm like, "In our neck of the woods, yes, sir." That's a great way to meet your future in-laws. 

Oh, okay. We went 14 different ways. But this was so much fun. What have we not covered that y'all want to cover or get out into the world?

[00:57:52] AS: Let's see. Well, like what Nadhiya said, people were able to find her through the ASHA website. That's through the ASHA ProFind. And again, not everyone might list what languages they're speaking. But if you're looking for Ð if you want to get more information on how you can find SLPs or audiologists who have an understanding of a certain language or a certain background, you can try to utilize the ASHA ProFind. 

The API Caucus website, like what we mentioned, has a lot of different resources. We're continuing to try to grow this area and add more resources on languages. Right now Ð 

[00:58:24] NI: Currently, we have Cantonese, Korean, simplified Chinese, traditional Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, and Hmong. We have those resources listed on our website. And other languages are in progress. 

[00:58:38] AS: Yep. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, they're in progress. You can definitely check some of those resources out. Follow us again on social media. Become a member again so you can Ð 

[00:58:50] NI: You don't have to be of an Asian background to be a member, be our ally, and become a member and network, right? 

[00:58:59] MD: I learned that in [inaudible 00:59:01]. And that was awesome. I joined [inaudible 00:59:02] when I was there. But now that I know Ð and that often is a Ð not speaking for all Caucasian women, but for myself, am I allowed to join? Is that okay? I don't want to overset my grounds. 

[00:59:15] AS: Of course. 

[00:59:15] MD: But [inaudible 00:59:15]. Yes. Okay. 

[00:59:18] AS: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Come join us. Come learn with us. And then, yeah, that's what I would say. And then one of the things too Ð go ahead, Nadhiya. 

[00:59:28] NI: I think one of the things we forgot to mention earlier was that we were able to award, I think, three scholarships last year. 

[00:59:35] AS: Yes. 

[00:59:36] NI: That's something. We are doing that as well. 

[00:59:39] AS: Yeah, and we were able to Ð we were able to give those scholarships from all of the nice donations that we were able to receive. If you want to support our caucus, you can donate. And then that will pay for Ð 

[00:59:51] NI: Currently, the membership is free. 

[00:59:53] AS: Yes, exactly. Yup. 

[00:59:54] MD: What? 

[00:59:54] AS: It's free. Yes, membership is free. Anyone can join. And then Ð 

[00:59:59] NI: We're a non-profit. If you donate to us, then it's Ð 

[01:00:03] AS: Tax deductible. 

[01:00:05] NI: Deductible. 

[01:00:05] MD: If we have the love money, if we've got the love money, donate for a scholarship. And do the scholarships go to undergraduate students? Grad students? PhD students? Who does it support? 

[01:00:17] AS: Any student. Usually Ð what is it? I think that's at the end of the year. Hopefully, we'll be able to provide those scholarships again this year. But the entries, I don't remember when. But people can submit their entries with an essay. And then we have like different Ð like a subcommittee then to read all the essays and determine the winners of the scholarship. Yeah. Its for undergrad and also grad students. 

[01:00:45] AS: Awesome. Oh, I love a good scholarship. I have a dream of creating a page on my website that just links to all these different scholarships so that students could just Ð because it's really hard to find. It's not like readily available. This was absolutely a joy to have you all on. And like the time flew by. Thank you. Thank you both for your service to your caucus, to your service to our profession. But also, being women leaders. Because I understand intimately how much it takes Ð bless you, dog Ð to be a mother and a career woman as like Ð I have crazy, windy hair because we were planting this morning in the garden before we recorded. And I kind of smell like dirt. And I need to go take care of that. 

But from one woman's mommy's heart to y'all's, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:01:36] NI: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

[01:01:38] AS: Thank you so much for having us. 

[01:01:39] MD: Well, y'all, go check out their website. Become a member. And thank you for joining us for May, because there is so much goodness to celebrate this month. As always, check us out on First Bite podcast on Instagram, on Facebook. This mommy is finally coming up for air from the chaos that has been purchasing this house. We found out all the things Ð fun fact, the lady that owned this house left behind three Flemish flops. And the first week of living in this house, we had to find a bunny rabbit rescue because the bunnies were bigger than my dog. Oh, yeah, that was the tip of the iceberg. Also, the propane went. All the things.

If you've messaged the last couple weeks and I've been in a hole, please know I was in a fantastic hole and now we're getting ready to purchase all new toilets because the miniature peach toilet is just not going to work. Give me grace. But I will get back to the messages. 

Everybody, have a lovely time. Ladies, thank you for joining. And this was great.

[OUTRO] 

[01:02:38] MD: Feeding Matters guides system-wide changes by uniting caregivers, professionals, and community partners under the Pediatric Feeding Disorder Alliance. 

So, what is this alliance? The alliance is an open-access collaborative community focused on achieving strategic goals within three focus areas; education, advocacy, and research. So, who is the Alliance? It's you. The Alliance is open to any person passionate about improving care for children with a pediatric feeding disorder. 

To date, 187 professionals, caregivers, and partners have joined the alliance. You can join today by visiting the Feeding Matters website at www.feedingmatters.org. Click on PFD Alliance tab and sign up today. Change is possible when we work together. 

That's a wrap, folks. Once again, thank you for listening to First Bite: Fed, Fun and Functional. I'm your humble but, yet, sassy host, Michelle Dawson, The All Things PFDs SLP. This podcast is part of a course offered for continuing education through SpeechTherapyPD.com. Please check out the website if you'd like to learn more about CEU opportunities for this episode, as well as the ones that are archived. And as always, remember, feed your mind, feed your soul, be kind, and feed those babies. 

[01:04:17] MD: Hey. So, it's Michelle Dawson here. And I need to lay out my disclosure statements. So, if you ever wondered how bad my ADD, ADHD, and lack of sleep Monday through Monday actually is, well, here you go. These are my nonfinancial disclosure statements. I volunteer with Feeding Matters. I'm a former treasurer with the Council of State Association Presidents and a past president with the South Carolina Speech Language Hearing Association. I am a current member of both ASHA and SCSHA. And for this year, for 2021, I volunteered for the Pediatric Feeding Disorder Planning Committee for the ASHA 2021 Convention. 

My financial disclosures. All right. So, I receive compensation for First Bite presentations as well as talking teletherapy and understanding dysphasia from SpeechTherapyPD.com. I also receive royalties from SpeechTherapyPD.com for ongoing webinars that I have on their website, as well as compensation from PESI Incorporate for a lecture course, a webinar that I have on their website as well. 

I am a coordinator for clinical education and clinical assistant professor for the Masters of Speech-Language Pathology Program at Francis Marion University in Florence, South Carolina, for which I receive an annual salary. I also receive royalties from the sale of my book, Chasing the Swallow: Truth, Science, and Hope for Pediatric Feeding and Swallowing Disorders that I self-published and is available on Amazon. And I do receive royalties from the accompanying 13-and-a-half-hour CEU for the book from SpeechTherapyPD.com. So, yeah, I stay pretty busy. But those are my financial and nonfinancial disclosures. If you ever have any questions, please feel free to reach out. 

All right. Thanks, y'all. Bye.

[END]
FBP 232		Transcript

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