EPISODE 259

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00] MD: Thank you to everyone for makingÊChasing the Swallow: Truth, Science, Hope for Pediatric Feeding and Swallowing Disorders, an international bestseller. Y'all, I am so grateful that this book has traveled the globe and it has touched the lives of so many. So, thank you.Ê

Y'all, if you were looking for a resource to help you grow your evidence-based practice on why we need to engage in interprofessional practice with various allied health and medical partners, then I hope that you will check outÊChasing the Swallow.ÊAlso, don't forget that accounts for 1.35 or 13 and a half hours of ASHA continuing education through speechtherapypd.com. And you can get your copy ofÊChasing the SwallowÊon Amazon today. So, thank you, everybody. And enjoy geeking out with everybody that helped write the book. Enjoy.Ê

[0:01:13] MD: Hi, folks, and welcome to First Bite: Fed, Fun, and Functional. A speech therapy podcast sponsored by speechtherapypd.com. I am your host on this nerd venture, Michelle Dawson, MS, CCC-SLP CLC. The all-things Ped's SLP. I am a colleague in the trenches of home health and early intervention right there with you. I run my own private practice, Hartwood Speech Therapy, here in Col d' town, South Carolina. And I guest lecture nationwide on best practices for early intervention for the medically complex graduates. First BiteÕs mission is short and sweet; to bring light, hope, knowledge and joy to the pediatric clinician, parent, or advocate.

[0:02:00] EF: By way of a nerdy conversation, so there's plenty of laughter, too.

[0:02:04] MD: In this podcast, we cover everything from AAC to breastfeeding.

[0:02:09] EF: Ethics on how to run a private practice.

[0:02:12] MD: Pediatric dysphagia to clinical supervision.

[0:02:15] EF: And all other topics in the role of pediatric speech pathology. Our goal is to bring evidence-based practice straight to you by interviewing subject matter experts.

[0:02:24] MD: To break down the communication barriers, so that we can access the knowledge of their fields.

[0:02:30] EF: Or, as a close friend says, ÒTo build the bridge.Ó

[0:02:33] MD: By bringing other professionals and experts in our field together, we hope to spark advocacy, joy and passion for continuing to grow and advance care for our little ones.

[0:02:44] EF: Every fourth episode, I join. I'm Erin Forward, MSP, CCC-SLP, the Yankee by way of Rochester New York transplant who actually inspired this journey. I bring a different perspective, that of a new-ish clinician with experience in early intervention, pediatric acute care and non-profit pediatric outpatient settings.

[0:03:05] MD: Sit back, relax and watch out for all heart growth and enjoy this geeky gig brought to you by speechtherapypd.com.

Hey. This is Michelle Dawson. And I need to update my disclosure statements. My non-financial disclosures, I actively volunteer with Feeding Matters, National Foundation of Swallowing Disorders, NFOSD, Dysphagia Outreach Project, DOP. I am a former treasurer with the Council of State Association Presidents, CSAP. A past president of the South Carolina Speech-Language and Hearing Association, SCSHA. A current board of trusteesÕ member with the Communication Disorders Foundation of Virginia. And I am a current member of ASHA, ASHA SIG 13 SCSHA. The Speech-Language Hearing Association of Virginia, SHAV. A member of the National Black Speech-Language Hearing Association, NBASLH. And Dysphagia Research Society, DRS. Additionally, I volunteer with ASHA as the topic chair for the Pediatric Feeding Disorder Planning Committee for the ASHA 2023 Convention in Boston. And I hope you make it out there.Ê

My financial disclosures include receiving compensation for First Bite podcast from speechtherapypd.com as well as from additional webinars and for webinars associated with understanding dysphagia, which is also a podcast with speechtherapypd.com.Ê

And I currently receive a salary from the University of South Carolina in my work as adjunct professor and student services coordinator. And I receive royalties from the sale of my bookÊChasing the Swallow: Truth, Science, and Hope for Pediatric Feeding and Swallowing Disorders. As well as compensation for the CEUs associated with it from speechtherapypd.com.Ê

Those are my current disclosure statements. Thanks, guys.Ê

[0:06:37] EF: The views and opinions expressed in today's podcast do not reflect the organizations associated with the speakers and are their views and opinions solely.Ê

[0:05:25] MD: Okay. In this week's episode of gratitude, mommy Dawson is grateful that Pack Dawson came in clutch on a time-change weekend. And we got to get in a hike, and big house projects, and chores and things that sometimes you push your chores off, and then they amass and then you're like, "Oh, my God. We got to do it all now." And we did.Ê

I am grateful for my Pack to pull it all together. Also, I hope that y'all enjoyed this episode with none other than Jerrold Jackson, who, when you see him at ASHA this week, please be sure to give him a high-five and a heartfelt gratitude hug. Because he is none other than the ASHA SLP Convention Chair for Seattle in 24. So, huzzah. Jerrold, thank you for all that you do. It's going to be amazing.Ê

All right, everybody. Enjoy.Ê

[INTERVIEW]

[0:06:26] MD: Okay, everybody. I am so excited about today's guess. One, because he just brings the most amazing energy with him. And also, because we are gearing up for like literally two weeks away from ASHA. I think this boils down to like maybe 10 days if my math is correct. But math is hard. So don't quote me to that.Ê

But we have a topic that's very critical and it is absolutely utterly necessary that we talk about it. That we hold these meaningful conversations. And our guest is a leader in these conversations, but also a leader in our field. And I get to shine as light. And y'all know, that's one of my favorite things to do. So I have none other than Mr. Jerrold Jackson, who I met at Boston back in October 2023. Because he is, on top of his very full plate, volunteering his time to be the topic chair of the health literacy subgroup.Ê

For those of you that don't know, the ASHA Convention Planning Committee, there's like 30 different topics that they kind of categorize submissions into, and health literacy is a huge piece. And we've had a lot of past podcast episodes on it. But he's the topic chair of that.Ê

In addition to volunteering his time there, he's also the Director of Specialized Support with Roundtree Group. He is an active volunteer at local state and national levels. His work with ASHA has actually led to the development of the Assistance Certification Program. Thank you to all of our SLP-As. [inaudible 0:08:06]. Thank you.Ê

Also, updating the SLP assistant scope of practice, the clinical fellowship experience and ensuring that diversity, equity, and inclusion, and culturally responsive practices are part of the CCC coursework. He serves on the newly elected onto the NBSLA Board of Directors. And he received the ASHA Dorothy Dreyer Award for Volunteerism because of all of the work that he has done.Ê

And that's what we're talking about today. Advocacy, volunteerism. Moving the needle forward. He is standing in front of Ð or lecturing in front of the coolest X-Men poster. And my boy-mom heart is like over the moon and stars. Because I secretly want to be Rogue and not just because she has my hair, but because she's also amazing. So, hi.

[0:08:56] JJ: Well, I mean, thank you so much for the invitation to be here. That opening makes me feel like I need to go take a nap.Ê

[0:09:07] MD: No. That's why we take bubble bath.Ê

[0:09:10] JJ: Oh, my gosh. No. Really. Thank you for being here. You're such a light and such a ray of energy that's infectious. I just know that this time that we'll spend together in this space is going to be great.Ê

It was great meeting you too. I followed your podcast. I've read some of the things that you've been doing and just kind of seen you in action. And it's just really, really nice that we get to sit down and have this conversation. Thank you for having me. Thanks for that introduction.Ê

I am a huge X-Men fan. I didn't have one that I really subscribed to as like I wanted to be. But I've always just been interested in weather. At one point in time in my life, I wanted to be a meteorologist. I really resonated with Storm. And just kind of the idea of being able to control elements like that are so powerful. But that is Ð yeah, X-Men.Ê

But I'm also just an all-over person. I'm not a Marvel versus DC. I'm a Marvel, and DC, and GI Joe, and Masters of the Universe, and Princess of Power and whatever else I'm interested in. I'm all over the place when it comes. But I collect action figures. You have a little peek into that with my X-Men poster.Ê

[0:10:17] MD: He's sitting in front of this really cool poster and all these collections. And I'm thinking, "Wow." And here I am collecting thimbles. Because that's a little old lady trait.Ê

[0:10:27] JJ: But I think there's probably more to the story than just being a little old lady thing, right? I mean, there's probably significant history for you and why you do that.Ê

[0:10:36] MD: Yes. We glimmered over that. But to me, a thimble Ð one, my great grandma taught me how to sew. And that is profound. And I have her thimble. And she stitched. But to me, a thimble is symbolic of women's rights and women's empowerment. Because we sat together. We stitched together. We broke bread together. We were a community together. We advocated together. We stitched the flags for women's right to vote. We did this. And all of that is tied up in this tiny little thing that goes in our thumb that's supposed to stop us from bleeding. Yet, how many broken hearts and bloody knuckles were made along the way? And that is Ð so if anybody ever comes ÐÊ

[0:11:21] JJ: See? it's not just an old lady collection.Ê

[0:11:24] MD: No. But it's in my grandma's bedroom furniture set. If you go upstairs, it legit looks like an 82-year-old old lady lives up there. And I do have her doilies. But like they're really pretty doilies.

[0:11:34] JJ: I love it.

[0:11:37] MD: But there's that. Okay. Enough about thimbles. Tell me, because I love hearing everybody's story, how did you first learn about being a speech pathologist? And where Ð take us from the beginning there.

[0:11:52] JJ: Okay. It's an interesting journey, because I like to tell people that my walk in speech-language, hearing sciences has Ð it's been a divine walk. And I say that because this profession, I found it, I discovered it, but I also think it discovered me.Ê

Because I'd never Ð before going to college, I don't think I'd ever really thought about the profession. I really heard of it. Even though reflecting later on, I realized that there was an SLP at my elementary school. Her name was Miss Littles. And she would come and get students. And I always Ð people would say, "Oh, they're going with Miss Littles." But it was never like an explanation. But I later learned Miss Littes was an SLP. Because we actually, in my first job, kind of got to work together in a roundabout way.Ê

I started off my educational career at Southern University and A&M College in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It's historically a black university. And it's the only independent public HBU system that is existing in the country now.Ê

[0:13:03] MD: Wait. What does that mean? I don't know what independent Ð does that mean it's like a non-private?Ê

[0:13:08] JJ: It's the only system that's not tied to another system. And it's still freestanding as a public historically black institution in the way that it was designed. Many other historically black institutions and universities have kind of merged with some other university system.Ê

For example, Grambling State University, which is another HBCU in Louisiana, is part of the University of Louisiana University System. It's a part of another system. It's not a freestanding HBCU anymore as it's a part of the larger system of universities that exist in the University of Louisiana System.Ê

Many other HBCU's around the country, except the ones that are private, are part of another system. Southern University is standing still as its own independent public HBCU. It's not owned and operated by any other system as it stands. That's a significant feat that it still stands on its own and is not relying on other systems. It's still standing as an HBCU independently. And it's been in operation since the 1880.Ê

The SLP program there actually was started in combination of a couple of people. Dr. Mitchell and Mr. Samuel Geralds, who, when doing research, found out that he was the first black SLP in Louisiana period and definitely one of the first black men in the profession. He started the program there. These are all things that I learned afterwards.Ê

Anyway, I started at Southern University and my major was agricultural economics. Because I've gotten a scholarship there and Southern was a place that IÕve known since I was a kid. I had attended several summer programs there. And it was a part of one of the trio programs overbound that really helps children from minoritized backgrounds have access to college experiences and other exposures to science, technology, travel.Ê

And so, I just thought, "Hey, I'll do agricultural economics." I've gotten a scholarship from the agricultural department. And I'm interested in business maybe. This is also going to pay for me to get through school. So why not?Ê

And my first semester, I got this letter from them saying that the funding wasn't a sure thing. And just giving us a heads up. And I said, "Well, if they're going to take the funding away, then I need to go find something else to do." Because I already had another scholarship. Because I was like I don't know if I was really married to this. But I was going to enjoy it because ÐÊ

[0:15:42] MD: They're going to pay for it. Yeah.Ê

[0:15:43] JJ: Because they're going to pay for it. And so, I started flipping through the physical catalog at that time and just reading through majors. And I couldn't find anything. I didn't want to be a pure science major. Because I looked through biology. I didn't want to be an education major. Not because I don't respect teaching. I think teaching is one of the best professions. But for me, in my mind, it's like I didn't want to necessarily do that. And then I couldn't Ð business, I didn't want to just go into general business. I just was kind of trying to figure out what I want to do.Ê

I read through the catalog and I saw this major that said speech pathology and audiology. Had no idea what it meant. But I read through the courses. And I started to say, "Oh, my gosh. This sounds really interesting. I don't know what this is." But this is going to be what I'm going to do.

And so, I just went and decided to start taking the classes. And as I got into it, it started to do all of the things that I did have somewhat of an interest in that I didn't want to major, right? It had elements of education. It had elements of science. It had elements of the areas of interest. I was like, "Oh, this is kind of cool."

But I, again, still just didn't have a concept of what that really looked like and what that meant. I just kind of went on the journey. And I met some great colleagues who are now lifelong friends. My professors from then who guided me through some things as I was trying to develop who I was.Ê

And after I finished my undergraduate program, I went on to graduate school at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, which is the home of Charles Van Riper. If people know that name. And if you don't know that name, I encourage you to go do a little research.Ê

[0:17:33] MD: Wait. Van Riper. Was this articulation phonology?Ê

[0:17:37] JJ: This was Van Riper fluency.Ê

[0:17:40] MD: Oh. Oh, my God. Yes. Okay.Ê

[0:17:43] JJ: That's right. So why you're not thinking about that all the time?Ê

[0:17:46] MD: Yes. We had Dr. Ranyan taught my fluency class in college. I remember him saying there's Van Riper's and there's Ranyan's rules. And Ranyan rules will make you pass the test.Ê

[0:17:57] JJ: Oh, that's interesting. I've not heard that. Yeah, there were camps, right? And so, yeah, Van Riper was a camp. And so, he is given credit as being one of the earlier founders of fluency practices and things like that.Ê

Now, personally, there are some things that I've learned as I've grown up in the profession to think about how to engage with people and those kinds of things. And so, you look at some of the methods that were done in those periods of time and you do question them. That's kind of where my line is drawn.Ê

But the connection outside of who he was, which was interesting to me that I didn't really think about until I was in graduate school, was that the fact that Charles Van Riper was a former professor of Mr. Geralds who started that program at Southern. And that was kind of like an aha moment for me.Ê

That's why I say this path that I've been on has just been kind of ordered in ways that I didn't even think about. How is it that you have this connection without having those connections? So, Mr. Geralds being a student of Van Riper. Me being a student of Mr. Geralds. And then attending the school that Van Riper started was just kind of a circular moment for me.Ê

I did my studies there. And I ended up going to Western because there was a grant that was developed by Dr Yvette Heider, and Dr. Nikki Nelson, Dr. Michael Clark and Miss Adelio Van Meter that was focusing on language and literacy for diverse populations. This grant allowed students to come there and focus on that area of studying graduate school. We had specialized practicum. Special seminars and things that really helped us focus on supporting historically, and marginalized and underrepresented populations with a focus on language and literacy.Ê

And so, that grant got me through graduate school. Got me a lot of quality education and I think helped to launch my career in ways that I would have never expected. And, again, those kinds of connections. And that initial path led me to come back to actually working as a faculty member there at Western.Ê

I later learned that I was the first black male to graduate from that master's program in 2004. And then later, became the first black male faculty member. And there's not been one since I've worked there. But Dr. Heider was the first black faculty member at that university period. And I think she first started there in the late 90s, early 2000s. But she was also a student there too. It just really is an interesting kind of history there and the connections that have been made and the way that things have fostered my growth in my career. That's kind of how I started.Ê

I say I stumbled into it, but I think it found me. Because a lot of the interest that I had in the profession or in professional life or what I thought professional life could look like was found in this major and this profession. My interest in science, my interest in technology, my interest in the education of others. Even though like I always said, I never wanted to be a teacher. But then there's been a part of my life where I have been teaching.Ê

I just think that it like really found the best parts of me and what my strengths were. And it has been easy to be a part of this profession from the sense of what I felt my skills met and what I'm able to do and what I'm interested in. Doing this work is an easy choice even though the path to completion has not been easy and the path of being a part of this profession has not been an easy one.Ê

There are constant things that we're advocating for and against. And making a stance and making a stand. But for me, fitting into a profession that has allowed me to do a lot of great work, that part has been easy.

[0:22:00] MD: There are aspects of this profession that I love. There are Ð I love those aha moments. I mean, I know it's a pun, but like I get the first bites, right? Literally. I get to be there for those moments. And it is Ð if you sit there and let that wash over you, it is so humbling that we have been called to do this, right? That level of grace will always move my soul to tears. But there are parts where I just want to professionally scream from the mountain tops that we need to change.Ê

And folks, if you are listening Ð I'm going to give Ð here is my put your big girl bridges on conversation. If you have a concern with our profession, it is appropriate and healthy to voice those concerns. To ask those questions. However, it is what you do with your next breath that's going to make the difference.Ê

If you recognize a shortcoming, if you recognize a process improvement, it is in that next breath. What action? What steps are you going to take to move it forward? And if you don't know where to begin, if you don't know how to start that advocating journey, that leadership journey, how to represent, and, my God, do we need different representation within our fields, then may I recommend that you, one, join your state association. Because nine-tenths of what we grumble about cannot be resolved by ASHA. They have to be resolved by your state association. Because ASHA has a national level, obvious. And most of what we complain about is a state level. And it's your state association that has to change that.Ê

Get on ASHA's website and look at their leadership development programs. Look at their leadership umbrella. Look at even Ð they even have student programs. They have the minority student leadership program. We have these avenues and these tools that are available. But you can be the source of change. We just got to share how to do it.Ê

On that note, with that background and with that information at hand, how did Ð and this is always interesting. How did advocacy become a huge part of your career? Because I feel like we always start out wanting to do clinical, right? Like we'd go into these clinicians and then all of a sudden we're like, "Oh, no. I have to change the world."Ê

[0:24:42] JJ: I think that, for me, I always like to say that advocacy became a part of my profession. But maybe advocacy has always been a part of me from a young age. And there are stories that people remind me of from like my hometown of things that I supposedly have done for people. I don't even remember that they say, "I remember this one time at the bus stop, some kid was picking on me. And you came over and you were like, "Leave him alone." These kinds of things.Ê

There was a time where a friend of mine was being harassed and I witnessed it and I told her. I was like, "Hey, that's not supposed to happen. We need to do something about that. And she was like, "Well, I don't know what I should do." And I said, "Well, come with me." And so, I took her to the principal's office and we just kind of talk through it and things Ð and people will come and tell me, like, "Do you remember you did this and you said this?" And I just am like, "Wow."Ê

I guess I've always just been in a sense really thinking that justice was important and not exactly sure where that came from. But just in seeing things and thinking about how people are treated and just maybe even hearing stories from my family about how, in history, we've been treated and how they endure things.Ê

I had an aunt that was with one of the groups that helped to integrate the high school in our hometown. And so, maybe it's just been a part of just my DNA to speak out on things or to advocate for what we need to be doing and what needs to be done to support all people.Ê

And so, I guess maybe that spirit comes out in the work that I do. But growing into this profession I think, also, as a student, I used to have to advocate for myself. Because going to college was not Ð it was something I always knew I needed to do, but I had to find ways to get there. I had to make sure I had the grades. I had to make sure that I had the activities. I had to make sure, once I got to college, I maintained all those things.Ê

It just was surviving, right? And finding out what I needed to do to keep myself afloat and to find out what was being done to make sure that people were supported. And if I had to ask a question that was uncomfortable, then I'd find Ð I'd be the one to ask it. Because how else would we know? I think it's just been part of the fabric. And so, transitioning into this profession.

Again, I started off as a student in an HBCU. Everyone who I took courses with were black students. Black professors. Learning about development and all these things from people who were black. Went to graduate school, that totally changed. And that was the first thing that I realized like, "Oh, so I'm not one of many anymore?"Ê

And as I went through graduate school, there were things that happened in our graduate program that just didn't seem right. The way that students were being treated. Some of the things that were happening in our program. Even down to the point Ð and I had this conversation with a friend the other day to the point where even being funded as a student, there still was limitations on how far your money went.Ê

And so, I was looking through the courses. And at this time, everything wasn't required like it is now. I was looking at my money. I was looking at how much I needed to live. And then I looked at this course and I was like, "It doesn't seem like it's required for certification." This is how nerdy I was. I would go and look to see what I needed.Ê

And so, I said, "Well, this isn't a graduation requirement. It's kind of like an elective. Do I have to take this course?" Because I said, "I wonder if I can afford it." I went to my advisor and said, "I don't think that I'm going to be able to afford this. So do I have to take it?" And you know his answer was? "No one's ever asked that question before. But, no. It's not required." And I said, "Well, can I elect not to take this course? Because I need to survive and I need to eat."Ê

[0:28:27] MD: No. But this is academic literacy, which is a whole concept that Dr. Norman taught me when her and I were working together. I remember coming to her saying I have three students that haven't completed the requirements to start clinicals. And so, she sat me down and she goes, "We looked at the students, we looked at the requirements." And she goes, "Michelle Ð" she goes, "Honey, let me teach you."Ê

Whenever I talked to Dr. Norman, I always brought a notebook, a highlighter and a pen. Because when she taught, she taught, right? And it was the very first time I learned about academic literacy and why the three students that hadn't completed the task, they were all black students, but they were first-generation graduate students. And I did not equip them with additional information on the steps on how to do it.Ê

I didn't know that those resources and materials would set them for success. I didn't know. And then after that, it was, "Okay, Dr. Norman. What do I need to do?" But like she mentored in ways that, having attended PWIs and being a white female, I just took for granted. Because I didn't know.Ê

But, also, I don't think I would have asked had it not been for Dr. Burns and Dr. Norman teaching me and growing me, right? That's very raw Ð I mean, I would have continued not knowing had they not instilled the desire to learn more.Ê

[0:30:04] JJ: Yeah. I love that. And I would like to think that that was part of my foundation at Southern before I left and went to Western to ask the questions about, "Do you need this? And what do you need?"Ê

And so, when I'm at Western asking my advisor with a curriculum that's laid out, they're supposed to be lockstep. And here I am with my little self saying, "Hey, do I need to take this course or not? Because I don't know if a lot of people understand that everything is developed. Yes. But everything maybe is not written in stone. And it's not etched. And it can be changed.Ê

And so, that was one of the things that came up. And so, my advisor at the time, Dr. Clark, said, "We haven't had anyone ask that. But at this point, no, it's not required. Are you sure you don't want to take it though? The skills?" I was like, "I would love to take the course. But I can't afford it."

So me speaking up, he got me some extra funding from another source. He told me to apply for this money from this organization. So I got that. It padded my pockets to be able to really still be able to live. So I went on and took the course and did that.Ê

And there are just other things that kind of came up. There was like, "Okay, we need to ask about this. We need to address this." And as I moved into the profession, I started to see a number of things that were impacting people in different ways. I just think my voice has been one that I'll ask the question. I'll see what it looks like. Or I'll maybe even encourage someone next to me, "Hey, did you read this? What do you think about? Let me make sure I'm not losing my mind about it."Ê

And so, people are like, "Well, yeah. I thought about that too." And I was like, "Okay, so did anyone ever say anything?" It's like, "I don't think anyone's ever talked about that." I was like, "So I'm the one." I'll raise my hand. I'll say, "Okay. Hey, let's Ð what's going on here?" And so, I think that that's just kind of been the start in my trajectory.Ê

If something doesn't make sense, if it's not fitting in the Ð that I can understand, if it seems like it's putting barriers in places, I feel the need to say something or do something. And I will tell you, I've always thought that I thought that's what you were supposed to do and that's what everyone did. But I've learned that it's really not something that everyone feels comfortable doing and that is not something that everyone wants to do. Because a lot of people say that they rather go with the flow. They don't want conflict. But I don't look at conflict as a con. I look at it as a way to promote what we need to do and ask questions.Ê

Because sometimes people Ð and I've taken this for a thing too, is that you take for granted that someone's thought of it, someone's asked a question, someone's done it because someone's come before you. And I just learned really that most times people have not thought about it even though you think they should. And you're questioning like, "Well, what are you thinking about if you're not thinking about this?"Ê

Everyone arrives to things at different times. So I've learned to respect that. And even if the question has been asked, it may not have been heard and it may not have falling on the right ear. So I'm okay to ask that question, or make that statement, or push this a little bit forward.Ê

And I think that's just the key to advocacy, honestly, is to find the way that works for you. And there's not one right way to do it. Just as many people exist in this profession or in this world, that could be the way that advocacy works for you. Because you're that individual. And it's going to make an impact because you did it.Ê

It might not be standing in front of a crowd asking a question. But maybe you might send a message. Or maybe you might read something and say like, "You know what? I'm going to write a letter." Maybe I'm going to actually go to sit and testify in front of Congress. Maybe I'm going to actually decide instead of maybe creating the situation where we're going to a march. I'm going to actually go and volunteer my time on this committee so that we can talk about these things.Ê

I think that there are ways that you can find your voice being put out there to focus on the things that matter to you, but also that matter to the bigger picture. I don't think that there's one way to do it. I just think that the thing is to do something. And I like the way you said it earlier. When you find that something's not right, when you find that something is questionable, the next breath that you take or the next thing that you do is going to be the most important. I love the way that you put that. Because it really is taking that step. Like, yes, it's one thing to think about it. It's one thing to talk about it with someone else. It's one thing to make a comment on social media. But what are you actually going to do that's going to potentially change, or impact, or improve the way that we're operating not only as a profession but just in our lives? And you're right. State advocacy is huge. Local advocacy is huge. Having a national voice is huge as well. Find the space that most suits you and go after it.Ê

[0:34:48] MD: What I have found is that I have colleagues that they don't want to get involved in state association advocacy or national association advocacy. But they advocate on behalf of the profession in different entities or organizations. They like tithe their time amongst sister groups, sister organizations.Ê

In South Carolina, there's Family Connections, which is the state special education. It is the federally-funded PTI. Parent Training Institute. And it's this phenomenal organization. And I've had a ton of families and ton of colleagues volunteer there. Or they might Ð different nonprofits. I mean, working at food banks. Y'all, there are different ways that you can advocate.Ê

One of my favorite website is something called findhelp.org. Have you heard of that one?Ê

[0:35:43] JJ: I have not. I'm writing it down as you speak.Ê

[0:35:46] MD: Findhelp.org. I learned about this at ASHA 2023 from a panel discussion. It was a bunch of SLPs from MGH, Boston Mass General Hospital. This organization, you type it in, you type in your ZIP code in any potential need that a patient may have, that you may have, and it will propagate and fill the void.Ê

Like down to transportation. Down to food banks. Down to with like a power bill or like a gas bill. I mean, things that you don't even think that you could need help in or a loved one could need help in. And mental health. Counseling. Drug abuse. All of those things are available there. But that's also I look at it on the other side, all of those organizations need volunteers and advocates. And that's another way to pour forth. [inaudible 0:36:45].

Have you had any like formal leadership training or formal advocacy training that you were like this is a really good tool, or this is a really good book, or this is meaningful and will help me grow in that skill set?Ê

[0:37:00] JJ: I wish I could say there was one thing that I went through or one thing that I Ð some institute. But, honestly, it's kind of been a pull of resources from multiple places. It's been people who I've looked up to as mentor. Who have become mentors and now lifelong extended family that I've seen in roles that they've been in or that I've wanted to emulate that have had the biggest impact on me. And it's talking to those individuals who I've seen how they've operated and what their life look like and how they handle situations. Starting back from some family members. My mom and my dad. My grandmother. Even learning things from how my younger sisters have led their lives in ways and how they advocate ÐÊ

[0:37:50] MD: Wait. There's a story there.Ê

[0:37:54] JJ: There's a story. But just even how they were as kids versus how I grew up. I always was the good kid and just following all the rules. And they just kind of blasted through and did things in their own ways. I was like, "Take lessons from them."Ê

There were teachers that I had that just were always doing things on behalf of their students. One of my lifelong mentors that goes back to my high school days, she was my former English teacher. Dr. Ruth Ray Jackson, who's now the interim president at Langston University in Langston, Oklahoma. And we still keep in touch. And she just was the epitome of like what it meant to be a calm leader who used her words and her Ð just her presence to just kind of shift an atmosphere. And then piecing people like Mr. Geralds and Dr. Haider, just how they engaged from an intellectual and interpersonal kind of perspective of how they spoke. How they were confident in the knowledge they had. And how they also then just trained and worked with others to be who they were. But this is how you engage. This is how you do things.Ê

It's just been those influences. My own experiences. If people say like, "Hey, this is a book that I read," I might pick it up and skim it. But I'm not studying it. It's been just like a mixture of things. I've participated in some leadership academies. One in the state association. There have been some courses that I've taken. But I can't say that it's just one thing. It's just been a pool of resources and life experiences that just have helped to build my Ð I guess, my shaky confidence in moving forward with things that are important.Ê

Outside of that though, I will say too, again, the divine intervention that exists. I'm a spiritual and not so much religious person. Church and things like that are things I did as a kid. But my walk in spirituality has been truly faith-based. There are whispers, and messages, and signs that have been presented to me and I listen to those.Ê

I think that it has also connected me to people. It's connected me to places. It's allowed my path to be ordered in a way that sometimes I don't even know until afterwards like, "What did I say? Did I say that?" "What did I do? You sure I did that?" And it's in the moment. There is just something that happens that I can't explain sometimes.Ê

But it's grounded in Ð when I come out of the fog, it's grounded in, like I said, those things that I've read. Those people who've been there. Those specific circumstances that have said, "You've done this before. You can do this again." I wish I could give a leadership book or something like that to tell people, "Go read this. And this is going to transform your life."Ê

Like I said, I've taken things from different courses I've taken. I've read things like crucial conversations. What is it? The five levels of leadership? Those kinds of things I've read, but not to study them. It's been conversations with other people in different positions, like I said, in different roles. And then sometimes just like I've done this. This is what needs to happen. Let me jump off the bridge.Ê

I think, also, things have been strengthened by taking chances and becoming a part of something. Volunteer opportunities. I've been volunteering with state associations since I started in my clinical fellowship when I was working in Louisiana. The speech pathologist and audiologist in Louisiana schools group was huge. I was on their board and did exhibits. And was around people who were just active.Ê

And so, then moving into things in Michigan and like continuing working in Louisiana, I just think it's just been a culmination of those experiences that have helped to shape me to be comfortable in these environments. Volunteering through ASHA. And now being more involved in a national black association for speech-language hearing.Ê

Being around people who have done things and who are currently doing things. What they've done in history. Understanding how things have moved historically to where we are now and having that perspective. It's a multitude of elements I think that really have prepared me or continued to propel me in ways that makes me comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[0:42:13] MD: I think that is the most honest answer I've heard in a minute, friend. There is a quote, and it's one of my all-time favorite quotes, and it says, "If I've seen further than others, it's because I stood on the shoulders of giants." And it was Isaac Newton, who is my number one, number two favorite astrophysicist.Ê

I also really like Michio Kaku, because he's just delightful when he talks. And Neil deGrasse Tyson. I don't know. It was a toss-up. I like astrophysics. It makes me very happy. I don't understand the math and I don't always understand the theories.

[0:42:43] JJ: That's okay.Ê

[0:42:45] MD: It's wonderful. Yes. And the power of mentorship. There's a book that Ð and I get the faith-based. And I have a thought on the faith-based. And I'll come back to it. But there's a book. It's calledÊI'll Pray for You: And Other Outrageous Things Said to Disabled PeopleÊby Hannah Setzer. And she is hands down possibly the funniest author I've ever read in my entire life.Ê

And despite six months of pelvic floor PT, when I was reading her book, I laughed so hard that tears down my face and I totally peed myself. But like it's amazing. I mean, oh my God. So freaking good. One, she loves Jesus. Two, too she does cuss in the book. Heads up, folks. You've been worn.Ê

But she's got a theory in this book that she goes back to and it's steeped in her faith, and it's that the moon is round. And it's that we only see part of it. But, I mean, think about it Ð and this also probably ties back to me liking astrophysics. But we only see part of the moon and then sometimes we see none of the moon. We don't see the plan. We only see the part that we can see in that moment. However, there is always a plan.Ê

In between like trying to pull myself together. Because it's literally that good of a book. I'm like sobbing. Because, damn, there's always a plan. I have a dream and I'm going to put this into the universe. Because my dear friend, Erin, always says we need to manifest out loud.Ê

I would like to create an SLPs of faith caucus. I want a caucus where we can sit down and talk about our faiths and talk about our different faiths, and the holidays and how we honor those. But that is so intimately intertwined to my work as a PFD therapist. Because I break bread with families, right? I work with them during their meal times, which means I need to understand, "Talk to me about the foods. What is your customs and how you prepare your meals? What foods don't you eat? What foods do you eat during your Holy Week?" Those things.Ê

But I want us as a profession to have a caucus where we can go to for a repository of this from all the different faith backgrounds that we interact with. Because a couple months ago, I had Ð I can see their faces, but I don't remember their names. I had two representatives from the Asian Pacific Islander caucus on and they said that there was over I think 32 different languages and like 15 different religions represented within that one caucus. And that was just profound. We're just going to manifest the SLPs of faith caucus. Because I totally want to see that come to fruition.

[0:45:36] JJ: I love that. And the idea too is the respecting of the various cultures and the various faiths in conversation. Not coming into a space where mine is superior to yours. And what is this? This is not real. And it has to be at the basic level of being willing to walk into the room, and be responsive and be respectful of the thoughts, and the processes, and the visions that people have for their lives from a spiritual perspective.Ê

And that part is so critical. And like you said, you're in people's homes because of the work you do. But we're in people's lives in this profession in the same reason. It might not just be feeding. But it's the way that we're engaging with language. It's the way that we're engaging with speech sounds.Ê

And we have to take that same mindset. We have to check ourselves at the door walking to these lives whether it's the homes, or it's in our therapy rooms, or it's the classroom, or whatever the case may be. We have to be able to walk into the lives of these others. Taking them and what their needs are as the priority. And how do we then work our levels of understanding and our expertise into that?Ê

Not to tell them what to do. Not to tell them what to believe. How to eat? But how is this important to you and how is this impacting your lives? And how can I be a partner in this process? How can I collaborate with you but not treat you, or not do something to you, or service you? We're in this collaborative process together. And what's important to you has to be important to me.

[0:47:06] MD: Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes. Last year, I stepped out in a leap of faith. I did a two-hour podcast just on faith from different backgrounds. Around December time. And it was hands down one of my top five favorite episodes we've ever done. And bloody hell, it was a two-hour-long episode. But we had a lot of Jesus, and not Jesus and other face to talk about. That was fun.Ê

But one of the other things that Hannah talks about is the power of mentorship and how that naturally evolves into sponsorship. And I feel like when we're advocating, when we're trying to drive change, there is some something so powerful about recognizing the limit of our abilities, but then encouraging the next generation of clinicians, the stronger colleague and speaking their name into that room, right?Ê

And that I don't see done enough. And I see so very much Ð and it could just be my microcosm of like the PFD world. But there's a lot unfortunately, especially with the rise of social media. Me. Me. Me. Me. Instead, I feel like we need to take a step back and focus on if we have a platform and we have an opportunity, how are we mentoring and sponsoring change for the future? Which segues me into the mentoring and sponsoring of the SLPAs. Because I feel like that is a natural progression of our careers is to pay it forward for others. Does that make sense?Ê

[0:48:51] JJ: It does make sense. And, honestly, like I said before and just like you quoted, I'm here in the ways that I am here. Not just because of my own resolve, but because of other people nurturing me, supporting me, pushing me even if it was in some ways that I didn't want to be pushed.Ê

[0:49:13] MD: Oh, my God. Do I understand that?Ê

[0:49:17] JJ: And some of the things that you want to stay comfortable with. And having people who understand you and respect you enough to tell you what you need to hear. Also, what you don't want to hear. And just kind of fostering things in you that you didn't even see in yourself. Because we are our own worst critics. But sometimes people see things in us that they see as so special. And we don't understand why.Ê

And then maybe later on, because of something you've done, you're like, "Oh, that's what they're talking about." "Oh, this is why I'm doing this." And it's been those foundational folks in my life who have made me see the value of what it means to pour into someone else. I think I've taken that spirit in many ways and wanted to be a resource, or a vessel, or a support to others.Ê

And that started I think probably early on too. I remember being a clinical fellow and working in one of my schools. And there was a professor at Southern University who also worked in the schools. And like, "Hey, I have some students and they need to see what you're doing. And I said, "But Ð" her name is Miss Anderson. Coleta Anderson. And she's like, "They need to see what you're doing."Ê

And I was like I'm just doing my therapy. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm a CF. She's like, "No. No. No. They need to see what you're doing." Because I guess I was doing things. I thought it was what was supposed to happen. For instance, I would always do integrated or inclusive type supports with students in specialized classrooms.Ê

Instead of them pulling them out, I would always go into their classrooms. With my kinder and preschool students, I would always go in and do those even as a CF. And it's also part of like my training. And so, they were like, "No. People don't just do that."Ê

Even my principal one time asked me what I was doing in the classroom. And so, I had to kind of explain. She sent some students to me and my CF. Three students who would come and observe me on like Tuesdays and Thursdays. And here I am as this clinical fellow feeling like I don't know what I'm doing. But it's kind of started there early on. It's like, "Well, sure. Come see what I'm doing." And then it also Ð it clicked to me. Here I am. I'm a black man. Who is doing this in this profession?" Right? That's not something you see.Ê

I realized it was not just representation. It's what representation does. And what you're doing and how you're being seen by others. You can't always dictate how other people see you and what that means to them. It just start to open my mind of like, "Hey, if you see it, then come on. I'll show you what I know. And then that's just what we'll do." And I think that's the attitude that I've taken, is I'll show you what I know. And then you can probably take it further.Ê

I've just taken that on. Mentoring students. Mentoring and working with assistants. I learned about the level of profession as an assistant as an undergraduate because many of our students at Southern were like Ð they would talk about moving away and going to get a job with their bachelor's degree. And it always been pushed our minds. Like you needed a master. So I asked, "What do you mean?" It's like, "Oh, you can work as an assistant and start your career and do those kinds of things."Ê

And then I learned later some people decided that's the level of the profession that they want to practice. And so, growing up, I would hear, "Oh, they're just an assistant." Or, "Oh, they didn't get their master's degree." And then I remember those conversations from being a young undergraduate saying that some people, actually, this is what they want to do.Ê

I started to research and understand that there are factions in our profession that we are looking down upon when actually we should be embracing. That kind of catapulted me to think about, "Okay. I know people practice as assistants. They've been practicing as assistants for a long time. Why are we having these pools in the profession say that they don't belong. They can't do this. They can't Ð" well, what can they do? What education do they have?Ê

They have, in many, cases a bachelor's degree. Now we know there are associate degrees. But even so, it's a specialized skill set that they've developed. It's specialized work that they know how to do. And they're able to do that with the support of an SLP who's gone on to get complete certification and licensure. Full licensure. Full certification.Ê

Why are we not embracing the aspects of our career and the career Ð and the professional development that happens at different levels? Assistants are not unique to SLPs. they are in every aspect of health care. They're in every aspect the world. Yes. In many instances respected and highly regarded.Ê

Why are we looking down upon the people in our profession who have a very specialized skill set who work and can be the extension of our professional selves that helps us to address the needs of communication that we can't continue to do until we continue to grow as a profession? Why would we look at this as something that we can't build upon positively to support the various needs of those who come to us?Ê

It became very important to me to advocate for that. And then, also, to advocate for the clinical fellowship that people are not always happy about that we have this as a part of our profession. But until we change that, we have this aspect of a professional who's just stepping out into the world who could use that additional support in understanding what it means to transition from being a student, to being a professional.Ê

And as easy as it is for people to say, "Well, they're ready to go," we don't recognize ÐÊ

[0:54:38] MD: Are they?Ê

[0:54:39] JJ: Right. I'm saying, are they?Ê

[0:54:41] MD: Are they?Ê

[0:54:42] JJ: You don't recognize the mentality, or the strain, or the way that we develop people in this profession to be a certain type. And so, we start them off like, "Compete. Compete. Compete. Get the highest grade so you can get in graduate school. Now you're in graduate school, you need to know everything there's to know. I'm going to tell you how to write your goals. I'm going to tell you how to do this. I'm going to tell you how to do that. I'm going to do all these things."

But at what point in time are we positioning them in many instances to become their own thinkers? To be their own professional? Those kinds of things. So then we drop them off after graduate school and tell them to go out into the world and work. But they're still looking for someone to tell them what to do or to tell them how to write in many instances. And we have not taken the time to give them the supports that they need to be comfortable and being independent critical thinkers. But we've set them up for this success and then drop them off and expect them to go and just kind of fly. But we haven't cultivated an environment to where they should feel comfortable doing that. Or that we haven't made them second guess themselves.Ê

For me, the clinical fellowship is the time to reclaim that and give them the support that they need. Let them fly. Let them see what it means to be independent. Let them have those successes. And we support that. We also add to what they're learning. We add to. We tell them these are how things look in the professor. We show this this is how an IEP is run. This is how you think about really interpreting that information. This is why we shouldn't use this standardized assessment for this child.

[0:56:14] MD: Goodbye PLS5. That test should be pulled from the market. It was inappropriately normed. If you were using that test you were feeling before you begin. Saith, my clinical educator had. Okay. I'm done. Sorry. That thing makes me mad.Ê

[0:56:28] JJ: Well, it's a lot of those things too. But we have a culture where we're saying we have to do these things. This is what we do. This is the standard of practice. And it's like, "Well, is it standard for everyone? What's standard? Just like even calling everyone normal. What's normal? That's typical? Why do we use these terms in this way? Let's really challenge our ourselves to do things differently.Ê

But feel comfortable to step outside of what you've been trained to do and then do what's best for the person, or the individual, or the family that's in front of you. And that's where I think a lot of our students transitioning to professionals have some difficulties. Even sometimes our assistants. Because they've been told, "You can't do this. You can't do this." But what are the parameters we're setting to what you can do?

And then, yes, then when you need this support, reach out to those of us who are supervising or mentoring you. I think the empowerment of you can do this work. You have gotten the educational support. You've gotten the training. Now maybe you just need some support from someone else to say like, "This is what we're going to put into practice."Ê

And I feel like for me, that has been a calling as I've evolved to say, "I've done these things." Like I said earlier, I've challenged. I've questioned. I've spoken out. I've decided to join these things. Let me tell other people this is how I've done it. This is how it's worked for me. This is what I've seen. And is it going to be perfect 100% of the time? No. But you can be successful in this.Ê

One of my CFs who now is my lead SLP in Roundtree Group, she continues to joke about the time that we were in an IEP meeting and we were talking about the progress for this particular student and the goals that were outlined. And she started to kind of lose her way in how she want to explain a particular concept.Ê

And so, she was going into it. And I could see that she was getting nervous. I just kind of looked at her and I just kind of gave her a nod and just kind of mouthed it's okay. And then she kept going. But then she stopped and she looked at me. She's like, "Help me out. Help me out. What am I trying to say in the meeting?" And I could tell she was getting flustered.Ê

And I said, "Faith, you're good. You're in a good space. Keep going." And I think she really wanted me to give her the answer. But I wouldn't. Because I knew it was right there on the cuff. She took her breath and then she went on and did it beautifully.Ê

And I think there's just something different. We could give you all the things you need, but you already have it. You just need to unlock it. And I'm happy to be the person to push you to unlock that. And so, I feel like it's what we need to continue to do. Because someone has done it for us. And we have to be mindful that that's a part of how we've decided to build this profession. And until we decide to change it, it takes us being that guy for that next person.

[0:59:06] MD: Honey, I would hug you, but I don't know where you are in the world. Air hug. I hope you feel this in the universe. So many thoughts. First thought, folks, if you're not aware Ð and honestly, those of us that don't actually engage in supervision of SLPAs probably are not aware.Ê

Abd Jerrold, correct me if I'm wrong. Was it 2020 that the SLPA Supervision Cert came out? Or was that 2021?Ê

[0:59:30] JJ: Yeah. It was 2020 when the standards updated to include the requirement for continuing education for those of us who are mentoring and supervising. That's SLP assistants, students and clinical fellows. 2020 standards indicated that.Ê

2020 was also the year where certification was enacted at the national level for SLP assistants and audiology assistants. If you want to achieve certification through ASHA to be a nationally certified audiology or speech-language pathology assistant, then, yes, that went into effect in 2020.Ê

And 2021 was the committee was pulled together to update the scope of practice for SLP assistants. And that went into effect in March of 2022. A little bit over two to three years have been some major shifts in how we've been looking at the work of assistance.Ê

And it's been interesting too. Because we rewrote the scope to expand it a bit with the work that assistance should be able to do. And, of course, we always remind people that you have to look at your state licensure or your state regulation laws for how assistants are to be governed at a national level, which we hope that people will take a look at that and see that we did a peer review and we did an updated scope. Because we knew that assistance we're doing was not reflected in the scope of practice.Ê

And so, we find it important. Because many people have an idea that assistants can't work in medical settings. They can't work with certain populations. But it's happening. And it's being done. And it's being done to fidelity. Why is that not reflected in the scope? Those are some of things that we work to put into place.Ê

I know there's a lot of controversy that comes into the question of should assistants be certified? And why are we certifying assistants? And the question could be why we're certifying anyone? But since we are, here are the things that we can do to ensure that you meet these levels of practice and that you are reaching the highest potential that you want to reach. And again, certification is an option. If it's an option for us as SLPs, why couldn't it be an option for assistants? If you want to achieve this certification, then go after it.

[1:01:49] MD: On this side of it, I think it's beautiful. Because it's validating to me. I worked as an SLT in Virginia before the SLPA. And I would have loved to have had a certification as a speech-language pathology assistant. I feel like that would have given me more clear guidance personally on what to do and not to do.Ê

Also, my CF supervisor, bless her, she show up, she would pray with me. Hand me a Mary Kate book. Ask me for my order. And then after I place my Mary Kate order, then she would sign off on my papers and basically just bid herself a do.Ê

And so, it was not the most learning of experiences. But I am gray-haired and Botox. So this was a minute ago, right? It's been a minute, baby. But like my true mentors were were like the chief hospitalists, the lead nurses that like taught me about Ð in professional education, taught me about interprofessional practice. But had I not had their mentorship, I would have failed in that setting, right? But now that we have these standards of practice, I feel like we have a game plan to provide optimal mentorship.Ê

[1:03:17] MD: And I think that's the goal, right? It's the game plan. And it's not a hard and fast rule. Because there are other credential bodies that we all have to abide by. And so, these are guidelines. These are standards of practice. But it's there for you to refer to.Ê

And the other thing is too, we know that we're Ð for the foreseeable future, there is going to be a clinical fellowship. There are going to be assistants. If they're existing in this way that we're operating right now, whether you agree with it or not, how do we make it the best that it can be for everyone involved? It doesn't have to be this bogging down of additional work.Ê

I look at our assistants as people who are expanding what we can do. It takes our reach further than we can ever go there. Working with a clinical fellow, it's helping to, for lack of better words, birth them into this profession in ways that allow them to see themselves as the professional that they want to be and open them up to the possibilities. Will they potentially stay in the same job after their fellowship is done? I don't know. It's our hope that they do. But at least when they go, they have a springboard to go into wherever else it is that they want to do.Ê

And we can be those agents of change. And it doesn't have to be the scary process. There are people who can help mentor you to become the supervisor or the mentor that you want to be. There are resources out there for that to happen. And even if we didn't have the best experience ourselves, did you not think to yourself like, "If I did have someone to do this for me in this way, this is how I would have wanted that to look." And can that be your motivation to make sure that the next person doesn't have that horrible experience that leaves that taste in their mouth as they go out professionally?Ê

How do we be the agents of change and create the product that we would want to see in these situations where it comes to, "Well, that's just something extra to do." Or, "I don't know. Someone did it for us." It doesn't require that that's why we do it for someone else. Because you may just realize that you're the person that's not there to mentor people. Fine. But if we have this system set up, why can't we make it the best that it can possibly be? And you can look at me and say that's pie in the sky. But I've lived it. I've been doing it. And I know that it's possible. And I know that we can continue to promote the best practices that we can.

[1:05:38] MD: Yes. I became a clinical supervisor because of the horrible supervision I had in one practicum where she belittled me to the point of tears because the PTA said, "Have a blessed day," on the way out the door. And I said, "You too. Back to her." And this woman pulled me aside and ripped me apart for bringing faith into the workplace. And it was at that moment that I thought I want to drive this so that no one ever has to go through this. And nothing that transpired was wrong. And it was all a beautiful, organic moment.Ê

And there our youngest couldn't hear for the first couple years and he had a lot of speech therapy. Whenever he sees a pregnant woman, he goes, "Mom, they're about to make birth." And I'm like, "Baby, you don't make birth." And so when you said give birth earlier, all I could hear was bear in my head saying, "No. Mama. They don't give birth. They make birth." And I'm like, "You weren't there, son. You don't know."Ê

[1:06:41] JJ: Well, he knows. He has an extra sense of these things. And that's the way that he communicates. We have a term and we grew up saying this in Louisiana and I've heard it Ð I haven't heard it in other places really. But that we'll go and make groceries. And people are like, "What are you talking about?" And like, "No. We're going to the store." The essential idea is we're going to buy groceries. But when you say, "I'm going to make groceries." And it's the same thing. And it builds into this idea of people are communicating the idea. You know what they're talking about. Don't pretend that you don't. Open your mind to what they're missing and what they're saying, which kind of goes back to the whole idea of what you experienced and so many other CFs have experienced where someone rips them for expressing themselves or being an individual.Ê

We're not in this business to create menimies. We're not in this business to clone what has been and replicate the same thing over and over. That's what's got us into trouble. People come from various backgrounds, various ideals. They have various beliefs. It's not our place to judge them on that. It's not our place to change that. If it's in a spot that is impacting the development, and the growth and the comfort of other people, we need to address it. But that doesn't mean that we change the fundamentals of who people are, and what they believe and what they think.Ê

And it's the reason why we continue to have so many problems across this profession from an ethnic, racial, equity access situation is because we believe wholeheartedly we're supposed to fix people. Or you only look a certain way. Or an SLP looks and acts like this. That is not the business that we're in. We're in the business of health and human support.Ê

Health and human comes to us in different forms, in different ways. And it is our job to accept that and bring our expertise to supporting those people. But we're not in the business of creating, recreating, and cloning and duplicating. We're here in another capacity. That also is problematic when we're working through our graduate programs. And there's only one way that therapy can be done. Or we're riding someone really hard because they're not saying things a certain way. Or how can you be a model for people if you're speaking this dialect? This is what we need to stop.Ê

And these are the things that I will continue and others will continue to advocate for and against. This is not the business that we're in. Even though that's the business people would like us to be in, we're not here to correct, to fix. We're here to support. We're here to encourage. We're here to enhance. We're here to collaborate. And that starts when we're training and educating our students, and supporting and mentoring our clinical fellows and supervising our SLPAs.

[1:09:24] MD: Amen. Amen. Amen. Oh, my gosh. I wish my face hadn't frozen. Because I'm all like, "Yes," in the background. But like, folks, all Mr. Jerrold has seen this entire episode is me and two chins. But they're fabulous chins. I've worked very hard on them. Thank you.Ê

[1:09:42] JJ: Well, you haven't talked about this awesome mirror that's in the background that's reflecting the color of the background there. And then, also, like I said, your Rogue hair is right there and we can see. You're not giving the highlights.

[1:09:54] MD: Okay. Wait. Rogue. Okay, on that note ÐÊ

[1:09:55] JJ: Yeah. Rogue from the X-Men.Ê

[1:09:58] MD: I was Rogue because my brothers called me Cruella Deville. Because I was the mean, oldest sister. And you know what? I'm not mean. But you can't duct tape your brother to a bed, Allen. Because one brother tried to duct-tape the other brother and I fussed at him. And all of a sudden, that was Cruella. And I'm like, "Well, you can't Ð again, cannot duct-tape your brother."Ê

This is what happens when you have five children. Somebody will get duct-taped or something. God help us. I don't know how my parents survived all of us. And we all turned out mediocrely okay. I mean, we all got our quirks. But we did it.Ê

[1:10:35] JJ: And we know Cruella's true backstory, especially now since it's been reimagined. Why are you Cruella in this point? Am I always Cruella? Or am I Cruella because I'm responding to something that you did?Ê

[1:10:46] MD: Yes. Was it Oz? Have you seen Oz?

[1:10:49] JJ: Yes.

[1:10:50] MD: Yes. See? There it is. Oh, my God. Okay. Wait. This was wonderful. One, we have gone over everybody. Thank you. You guys know I'm going to go over. We have an hour, but like we don't always stick to the rules. Some rules were meant to be broken.Ê

You are the topic chair for the health literacy. And we are like two weeks away. Can you please share with us, if folks are coming to ASHA, is there like a specific health literacy course tied to pediatrics that you just want to say, "This one's amazing. Please go check this out?"Ê

[1:11:24] JJ: Oh, my gosh. I mean, how do I choose? I feel like, as a topic chair, I would be horrible to just pull out one or two. But the theme of the convention this year is igniting innovation. And I think that we were looking through and trying to pull through some topics that were really Ð that we looked at as change-makers is initiating a spark or catching fire. Those kinds of things.Ê

And so, we have some really good talks from our group. I think there are ones in both speech pathology and audiology that are really talking about building capacity. Bringing forth knowledge about how can we educate folks on not only what we do, but what's available for them to ensure that they have access to the care that they need?Ê

But two that really kind of come out that I'd probably promote, probably we say addressing the links between Health Literacy and Access to Care by Mariah Morton Jones. And then the Science of Follow-Through. Thinking about how executive function, therapeutic success and lifestyle modifications are linked by Sucheta Kamath. 

[1:12:30] MD: I love Sucheta. I know her. We're [inaudible 1:12:34] together. She is amazing. 

[1:12:35] JJ: Also, maybe culturally responsive research by Dr. Keisha Lindsay Nurse. And then optimizing your hearing aid, a cochlear implant programming appointment, Shelle Hugh from Audiology. Dr. Tabia Pope, who's going to give us information about traumatic brain injury. There's information about audiology meeting the needs of Spanish-speaking populations. 

Health literacy is on fire. I appreciate you asking that. We had a lot of great invited speakers. And I just think that it's going to be a great convention. The convention co-chairs have done an amazing job. You were a topic chair. So you know what we experienced with Kelly and Jennifer and just kind of how they've just kind of motivated us as topic chairs throughout this whole process. 

And they've set a model for me as I'm going to step into being convention co-chair with my audiology coach here, Kim Ward, for 2024 in Seattle. We have a lot to live up to. but we're excited to do that.

[1:13:38] MD: Yes. Kelly and Jen have done a wonderful job. And there are Ð y'all, I know I tell you every year to come to ASHA. But to be surrounded by colleagues. One, to be able to hug them again. Because touch is one of my love languages. But to be able to be surrounded by them and to just sit in the room and soak it all in from somebody else is just Ð God, I freaking love that. I love that. 

And I know I'm a nerd. I'm like the nerd of nerds. But it's just Ð I don't know. It keeps me coming back. And if you're a student and you have a dream to come but you have no monies, oh, do we get that? ASHA does have student volunteers probably a little late in the game to apply at this stage. but just keep it in mind for next year too, okay? 

All right. And then my last question, if somebody has any of the mad moneys lying around, because my grandma raised me and sometimes she would call her pocket money if she had a little leftover mad money. And sometimes she would call it love money if a body was in need. 

If somebody has some mad money or love money left over, is there an organization, an entity, a scholarship that you recommend that folks could donate to pay it forward? 

[1:14:59] JJ: I would have to say, from a professional standpoint, if you're interested in donating volunteering your time, becoming a part of something that is transformative, I would say look into the National Black Association for Speech-Language Hearing. I will give a huge plug to the work that they have done for the past 45 years to move the profession forward from a standpoint that impacts needs of the black community, especially as it comes to speech-language hearing. 

It's a 503(c) nonprofit. We're continuing to move forward with supporting students and their educational needs. There are scholarships that are being developed for black men particularly in the profession. People who are looking to become an audiologist. We also look to help students support to travel to the convention that happens every year. 

Great organization. Great leadership. Great history. And the mission of what it's doing for not only the profession, but for people in the community. Give to NBASLH. 

[1:16:07] MD: And you can be a member. I am a member.

[1:16:09] JJ: You can be a member. Because you joined, right? 

[1:16:11] MD: I joined. Yes. I joined and went to the membership meeting. And I sat next to Grace. But I was at the table with Grace, Grace Hao. The Chair of I think it's North Carolina Central University. 

[1:16:28] JJ: Okay. Okay. Yeah. 

[1:16:29] MD: I might have butchered that. Grace, if I butchered it, I wholeheartedly apologize, love. But Tony Robinson. I've never met him in person. Am I saying that right? Tommy Robinson.

[1:16:38] JJ: Tommy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[1:16:40] MD: Yes. He was at the table. That man had me in stitches the entire membership meeting. And, oh my God, it was so much fun. I don't know how I got the right table. But that table was like Ð 

[1:16:51] JJ: It sound like you hit a jackpot of some great people. 

[1:16:56] MD: Wait. [inaudible 1:16:59]. Yes. Oh, I love her.

[1:17:02] JJ: She has become a recent life mentor. Dr. McNeely, if you're listening, know that I have attached myself to you even if you don't know. But as I've gotten more involved in ASHA business, she has been a driving force for a lot of the things that have moved forward in the profession. Just the history that she has in the profession and what she's done. But, yes, I have latched on to her as another person who I look up to for just leadership, and for knowledge and just how impactful her presence can be. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

[1:17:36] MD: Yeah. She sparkles. She's one of those souls that like legit sparkles. But like her eyes twinkle. Yes. Okay. Okay. We have to come back and do this again I think for next year. 

[1:17:47] JJ: I would love to. 

[1:17:50] MD: This was amazing. Thank you.

[1:17:53] JJ: Thank you for having me. Thank you for this platform. Continue to do the great things that you're doing not just in feeding and swallowing, but just in the message that you're giving to those who are out there listening and wanting to be empowered and think about what it means to have meaningful conversations that hopefully spring into action. That would be my call for everyone listening, is if there's something that's growing inside of you, something that's gnawing at you that you've had a question about, that you've wondered what to do, find a group to talk it out with if you need that kind of support. But, also, like Michelle said, the next thing you do is to do something. Take action. And you can find your way to make account.

[1:18:37] MD: Okay. Everybody. Yes. Check us out on First Bite podcast on Instagram. Be sure to tune in. You know, Erin and I took on this new initiative of research Wednesdays on Instagram lives. Two Wednesdays every month to try to expedite research to practice. But, also Ð yes, right? We want to elevate the researchers' voices. It's lovely the sharing and dissemination of information on social media. But we don't want to lose the message in the middle. Come join us on Wednesdays. And thank you, thank you, thank you. 

[OUTRO]

[1:19:13] MD: ANNOUNCER: Thank you for joining us for today's course. To complete the course, you must log into your account and complete the quiz and the survey. If you have indicated that you're part of the ASHA registry and entered both your ASHA number and a complete mailing address in your account profile prior to the course completion, we will submit earn CEUs to ASHA. Please allow one to two months from the completion date for your CEUs to reflect on your ASHA transcript. Please note that if this information is missing, we cannot submit to ASHA on your behalf. 

Thanks again for joining us. We hope to see you next time. 

[1:19:53] MD: Feeding Matters. Guide system-wide changes by uniting caregivers, professionals and community partners under the Pediatric Feeding Disorder Alliance. 

So, what is this alliance? The alliance is an open-access collaborative community focused on achieving strategic goals within three focus areas; education, advocacy and research. So, who is the Alliance? It's you. The Alliance is open to any person passionate about improving care for children with a pediatric feeding disorder. 

To date, 187 professionals, caregivers and partners have joined the alliance. You can join today by visiting the Feeding Matters website at www.feedingmatters.org. Click on PFD Alliance tab and sign up today. Change is possible when we work together. 

That's a wrap, folks. Once again, thank you for listening to First Bite: Fed, Fun and Functional. I'm your humble but, yet, sassy host, Michelle Dawson, The All Things PEDÕs SLP. This podcast is part of a course offered for continuing education through speechtherapypd.com. Please check out the website if you'd like to learn more about CEU opportunities for this episode, as well as the ones that are archived. And as always, remember, feed your mind, feed your soul, be kind and feed those babies.

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FBP 259
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