Sean Sullivan (19s): Welcome to Converge Coffee with Sean Sullivan. I'm here with Mike Reynolds. He has been and delivering digital products to market for over 20 years. He is an expert in product management, user experience and product marketing. Mike believes there is a digital solution to every problem with a passion for great product and helping other companies achieve it. My founded innovate map in 2014, Mike brings a fresh perspective on product strategy and guides clients to find the right product market fit. Mike leads an exceptional roster of product professionals, and can't wait to help make the next great product. My thanks for being on the show, Sean, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Sean Sullivan (1m 1s): It's been awesome. It actually, when you, when I kept seeing hearing product and Mike and that kind of stuff, I always kind of feel like it just like Tim, the tool, man Taylor, when I talk about product and how he goes, Oh, what the, what the tools and everything. But yeah, but I see your stuff with product and I'm completely amazed by how refined everything is. I've, I've talked to other people in the area about the different products that the solutions that you have made. And it's kind of like if you've got a SAS product and you need to, where do you need to go? It's kind of like, you need to go to innovate map and that's kind of it, but it's not just SAS products. It's other products that I've noticed with your branding, your product, your design, your understanding from the user's point of view, which I think is, is interesting. Sean Sullivan (1m 47s): So my first question out of all, this is, you know, how did like, is this the origin story? This is kind of like Marvel DC comics. How did you come up with innovate map and what has changed since, you know, starting a company, especially with 2020 happening? Mike Reynolds (2m 5s): Yeah, I'll start the first one. And I, I, I'm very grateful for your perception on what we do in the end, the prominence of product, because I would say that that passion for doing product well is actually what started all this. I, like I said, I've been in digital products for SAS companies, startup or larger software companies, probably about 15 years prior to starting this and really found my calling in, in, in a, in a professional life and that being product. I often describe what worried about product team and just to demystify that is worried about, are we building the right thing? And I always will describe the technology team, which people are most familiar with it they're worried about, are we building the thing? Mike Reynolds (2m 49s): Right? And so your product team is the one worried about, you know, what's the right feature set. What's the user wants, is this going to sell? Is it usable? And you know, probably, and we started coming about seven years ago and really what pushed me over the edge is I was really starting to see the value of a product function in a technology, but he being the differentiator. So can you, now that we're everything's cloud based or SAS, most digital products having a well engineered it's table stakes, like if you don't have engineering down, right. You're not even playing the game. Like nobody buys a car cause it starts every time that we buys a house. Cause it doesn't week, same thing with software, if it's not of high quality and integratable and stable you're it's toast. Mike Reynolds (3m 35s): And if that's kinda table stakes, what was really starting to set products apart was how well they did the product side. How marketable is this? How valuable is the feature set you're offering, how usable? And that, that certainly was very satisfying in the Roseanne. I was like, that was a great product, Todd and that's, that's kind of my passion, that's the field. But as I looked around, I started seeing with the moment, so doing product well rising, there just wasn't enough expertise in market, whether that be existing software companies struggling to do it well, even though it's what they need to do well, or, or really primarily even a startup company where you don't have the ability to W2 all those product roles, UX designers, product, marketers, product, product management, and there wasn't really a good solution to that. Mike Reynolds (4m 25s): And so it's, it's funny as a product guy, I always thought I would start another software company or work for another software company. But as I was kind of paying attention to this trend, it really kind of connected with a personal passion to really just provide that service in market is a very, and I, I had a belief at the time that it was a much needed service, kind of connecting to trends when everything going digital and then the second trend, which is to do digital well, you need to do the product side well and really set out on that belief. And so rather than doing product well for another company, I kind of chose to build product agency, a functional eight caliber product team and with expertise in product management, product research, UX design, go to market, product marketing, and really make that reality or excellence make that excellence Audi for companies that needed it most. Mike Reynolds (5m 16s): And I'll be honest at the time, my familiarity with the market was the texting. And so we started out laser focused on the tech scene and they'll kind of transition to the second half of your question, which was, you know, we started out the words I was speaking even UX seven years ago was really product management. Really only interested in tech startups and existing SAS tech companies probably what's changed mostly over the last seven years is worrying about a digital product. It's not exclusive to the tech scene anymore. You know, you've got non-tech companies trying to compliment their business with a T with a tech product and, you know, they might, they might have a hunch, they need good engineering, but that I we're kind of speaking a language that is almost like best of breed, best practices from the tech scene over the last 20 years, that is completely new terminology to non-tech companies. Mike Reynolds (6m 8s): So I would say we sit here today, continuing to service SAS companies and know primarily mobile app companies, but really also servicing non-tech companies, non SAS companies with their digital counterpart, whether it be an app, the website, a software as probably what's changed most. That's been exciting though, because I think that that group doesn't know this expertise and their gratefulness for it, their appetite, it really makes it quite satisfying as a professional service in the partnership. Sean Sullivan (6m 44s): Yeah. I've noticed that too. And I noticed your, your clients on your website have I've changed going from mainly that SAS tech mobile app to, you know, I think I noticed a nonprofit or more philanthropy where, I mean, that's the thing is that there's a new stream of how people are connecting with one another. And especially after last year, that is more going into kind of the digital workspace or work place if you want to call that. So in the next, in the next question, which kind of rolls right into there is, you know, what does digital innovation look like in the new workplace? Especially if you want to talk about your own experiences with your company, with your clients, anything is, you know, open, open floor. Sean Sullivan (7m 27s): If, you know, I feel like people are giving broader explanations on Forbes or Inc, but they're not giving individual explanations of what's really going on ground level or ground zero. Mike Reynolds (7m 40s): Yeah. I I'm lots of stuff coming to mind. I would say, especially this, you know, 2020 was a wake up call from any companies and I'll certainly speak to myself, but to, to kind of higher level thoughts immediately come to mind, the first one would be very simply more digital. So if kinda like what's going on is everybody is thinking certainly more digital. I would say a lot of companies are thinking digital first. And the way I often will describe that to people is probably the last 25 years tech and digital has maybe been a vertical, you've got healthcare pharma, retail, media entertainment, and need to have tech tech in my observation now is not a vertical, it's a horizontal. Mike Reynolds (8m 26s): It is it's spans across those. And what you're starting to see is companies have really had to think, you know, I don't, I'm unaware of any company that would be starting now that wasn't thinking of digital as a core component of it. And let me just give you a real example, if you were an awesome restaurant, 2015, 2019, what this year is focused this past year is forced you to focus on is my gosh. I've got to get my, you know, my menu online. I even have to integrate with the door dash. I might have to, you know, change my visit business to facilitate online, ordering myself. So even that your core business is still food and service, but you're not going to succeed without a digital compliment to that. Mike Reynolds (9m 11s): That's that's going down. And like I said, I wouldn't, I can't imagine anyone that wouldn't start in restaurant will stand that analogy today that didn't have digital as a core component of it, right from the get-go, you know, so we've got a series of companies that maybe, you know, an analog industries or non traditional industries really trying to catch up with digital, but I'm telling you, what I'm seeing now is there's no company starting that doesn't have digital as a core component, right. From the onset. And so that's why I'm kind of like, it's totally infused. It's not a different scene. It's, it's much more of a horizontal across businesses and I'll give a good example of ourselves. Mike Reynolds (9m 52s): I'm a professional service, you know, we're, we're definitely kind of a word of mouth candidly, a lot of our own go to market strategy, leaned into things like events, sponsoring events, having ourselves present a lot of relationship building activities, you know, and when we weren't able to do those, you know, early in 2020 word, what we had to do was think digital ourselves, you know, how is the world, or how is our audience going to know about innovate map? And we had to get digital with our own marketing. And we had to, you know, if we weren't going to have like, you know, five nurturing touch points and three in-person meetings to, to, you know, acquire a new client, we now had to have all that heavy lifting done through digital strategies. Mike Reynolds (10m 38s): So we had, we had to eat our own dog food and, you know, have our website more clearly explain what it is we solve for them go even further with product marketing, what are our offerings? What do we do? And then, you know, hopefully that, that just to think at a business level, having that digital product marketing online for ourselves is really eliminating. A lot of, could be top of funnel in-person activities, really going much more from an analog in person to an online digital presence in how we conduct business. And that's just us being a professional service. So between the restaurant analogy or maybe our own professional service that you just see digital, just be an incredible component to how businesses have to do commerce these days. Sean Sullivan (11m 24s): I love that. And I love your, your depiction on words. Cause I can visually see things as you, as you're talking, I had to write here like no building the right thing versus building the thing. Right. Or, and it's just the change of a nuance of the words that the structure of the sentence, or, you know, about being horizontal. And I could visually see as a product, it's almost like a product roadmap that you're giving. And I think giving to the audience here too, is, are eating your own dog food. That's basically what it is. It's like, Oh, should I, you know, I, since I'm going to give this a dog, I might as well eat it too, because this is the life that's happening. And so I kind of want to get more into your, your core service offerings because they are very interesting and unique that I've kind of seen in the area because you do something separately and you do it very well. Sean Sullivan (12m 15s): And you know, you know, how can businesses, you know, compliment, you know, core product and service with digital in the sense that you have a lot of, you're doing a lot of things in person, a lot of analog in person things. And I kind of did some research and other people can do research on innovate map, but primarily what my instinction was is you're a product design company. I see design on LinkedIn. I see other things, but you're so much more than that. You're more of a customer experience through product. So how can you speak to that of being more of a customer experience through product while leveraging messaging and design? Mike Reynolds (12m 53s): Yeah. Great. I would say, you know, I'm going to rise up a level from describing maybe our offering set or the roles of our team members at the end of the day, kind of the value prop of, well, the competencies that innovate maps can bring to the table is, is really based in strategy and design. And I appreciate that showing it's not exclusively design. I think we bring a lot of strategy of what to build, how to go to market, how to speak that design absolutely compliments, but it isn't just a, an art project. You know what I mean? It's not, it's, it's, there's a lot of outcome minded business recommendation rationale that our expertise comes with, but really when, when a client's hiring us, well, first of all, when I, when I say a digital product, I really thinking of anything that's online. Mike Reynolds (13m 44s): It's certainly SAS applications, you know, portals internal portals, mobile apps, if you're thinking of an app that counts, but a lot of website design as well, because sites today are not marketing brochure sites today behave like digital products. So if you go to like Papa John's dot com, it's not all about Papa John's corporate it's, it's, you're ordering pizza. I mean, it has functionality, it's got workflow, anything that's e-commerce. So all those are in play, you know, and what we try to do is it's gonna resonate with the buyer and it's going to resonate with the user and that's kind of the two value props. And that's really how we make our offering said, we've got a series of offerings that are strategic and involve design that help it, your digital product resonate with a buyer. Mike Reynolds (14m 30s): You know, whether it be, you know, how you're positioning messaging, a sales enablement tools and equipped with marketing, with how to, how to talk about this product, complimented them by a whole series of things, such as, you know, UX design, MVP, definition, roadmap, definition, things that help make sure that it also resonates with a user. And if you think about any of those digital products, it be an app software portal, your site, it has to conclusively convey a resonate with the market or buyer, but then that has to be consistent with the experience. If you're then going to go use that digital product, it has to, you know, back up that value prop and solve the problem that that company was intending to solve with, with great experience, with great value and its functionality. Mike Reynolds (15m 14s): Those things I'm describing are not typically the things that the engineers are worried about, you know, and they have, and we love, you know, every, a great product is one engineered. And then we will often talk like a better product is marketable, valuable, usable, meaning like, I, I continue to say that you've got to have engineering down, right. But what's really going to differentiate or set your experience apart is how well you do kind of the strategy behind what's engineered and the design behind what's engineered. And we'll come in with expertise in that competency and, and really help companies have a better product. Sean Sullivan (15m 53s): I like that. And I liked how you're talking about engineers, because when we talk about engineers, it's all software engineers. It's not, but yeah, they're, they're looking at, you know, they're looking at the app of the actual functionality of how fast it goes, different, you know, aspects of it. But sometimes it's, I mean, it's totally different brain. I've talked to some engineers where it's like coding eight hours, you know, they have to take two hours just to get their mind out of, you know, code mode basically. And sometimes, I mean, it's very hard to distract or take yourself out and think as the user on one end too. So I totally, you know, I totally get that because you're in a sense when you were talking about, you know, the product and the digital product, I almost thought of, you know, if you're a car salesman or if you're, you're selling a chair, you know, it's the same thing, but it's an online, you know, thing that you're, you're not building a physical product, you're building, building something online to service somebody. Sean Sullivan (16m 51s): And so leaning into the next question, because, you know, digital is it's changing very rapidly, even more so is, you know, what are trends in digital products that we should pay attention to in 2021? Mike Reynolds (17m 4s): Yeah. The couple of things in 2021, the biggest one, the two that come to my mind is, you know, if I might talk about the last five to 10 years, this emphasis on product skills, what I'm seeing, you know, and really citing that as a differentiator, what I'm seeing as being a real differentiator right now, or at least for the next 10 years is brand and customer experience. And I would say that those are really elevated well beyond the product, but you know, it isn't, it will soon become not just good enough to have a good well-designed work through or workflow as, as everyone goes digital across every industry and every space gets crowded, why this product others and what's going to different. Mike Reynolds (17m 52s): And if you can almost assume, yes, they're all well built and almost you could assume all, yes, they're all well designed. What's really going to start to differentiate or cut through the noise is a brand that you trust resonate with. You're aware of as well as an experience that is second to none. So I do believe a lot of it's digital products while having it, you know, getting the product side right the past few years has been differentiating as more people are going digital, what's going to differentiate that. And I'll use a real example like right now, a non-tech company let's use a bank absolutely has to think digital. I mean, that's not their core competency that you other their core comm C is a CD rates, bank, interest rates, and money. Mike Reynolds (18m 36s): But the next generation of checking accounts is not going to pick their bank based on that. They're going to pick their bank based on a customer experience and a great brand really backed by a great digital experience. You know, how, how is the online banking? How is the app? Is it feature rich? And, and, and, and so I talk about that because just delivering on a great, deliver a great product and a great digital experience will help those companies differentiate. But if you can imagine five years from now with it just being like every bank has got online banking and integrate app, well then who are you choosing? It's going to be the ones that compliment that with a full, great experience and a brand that you want to work with. Mike Reynolds (19m 19s): And so I would just say kind of summarize that everything's going digital still needs to harp on the things that we've been kind of advocating the last seven years, which is great product, but I really seen that, that, that relationship that a person will have with your company, that digital product is your front door. And, and so, you know, how they find out about you brand, their opinion of you brand, the, the digital experience, customer experience, all that's going to get interwoven and help companies differentiate. Sean Sullivan (19m 54s): Yeah. And what I've noticed cause I've, you know, being in the DDC or yeah. The director consumer world, and e-commerce, I mean, that's, that's immediacy right there. If you want to talk immediacy, but, you know, I forget who released it. I think it was advertised an advertising article that Amazon outspent L'Oreal like it was 13 billion, I believe in advertising spent just alone. But the thing is, is that Amazon already backed it up with a product, a service, a market to buy things. And then they have slowly ramped up their advertising budget to get people, more people to buy, just to get the, that last few percentage and just squeeze out that last percentage. Sean Sullivan (20m 41s): And that's what I've kind of noticed, especially this last year too. And especially going forward is you have to you're right. You have to have an excellent experience. You have to have an excellent brand to go to back that up, but you have to, you know, dive into paid media because that is, you're going to be your immediacy. It's like hedging the stock market. But the other thing too is like companies like Kyle Lacey with Lessonly, they added extra different things that are not their core product. Like they do a board game, they have t-shirts, they have a credit they're doing other things to enhance the brand, enhance the customer experience. Mike Reynolds (21m 20s): Yeah. And I, I would say, first of all, is a great example. Cause I think, I mean, you know, time and lesson, we do a phenomenal job about focusing, not just on that, it's a great product, right. And it's kind of like it's, well-built table-stakes 10 years ago, well designed table-stakes today. They're at the other level, they're really building a brand grander than the product. It's an overall experience it's going to be, and it is already differentiating for them. I mean, and it, and it's very paramount. It's something consumer base because a consumer is absolutely overwhelmed by digital offerings in their face. And, and I'll just share real quick show on something that we see if just to give kind of like the listeners, a priority of the two, you got to have great product. Mike Reynolds (22m 6s): I think we will see a lot of clients, you know, spend a lot of marketing dollars, drawing attention to their product if it's not valuable or easy to use it's toast. And when was the last time that you downloaded an app, it sucked and you decided six months later to give it another try. Right? You don't right. That, that, that, that experience, that digital experience with your product, assuming you found, you were aware of it is really the Ted, it's ultimately a tell. So you got to have the product, right. Once you feel like you've got the product right now, it's time to invite people to party, right? And that's the best use of your, your spend and mindful of your brand during that. But you you're gonna fail as a business. Mike Reynolds (22m 46s): If you were, you know, drawing a lot of tension, you use the Amazon example and it isn't backed up by a great product, but I'll share with you the opposite of that, which is having a great product is no longer going to be enough, you know, and I'll just speak. That's why innovate map about four years ago start investing in a brand competency. So we'd have clients with that. And we've got a brand team of four professionals on ours just because it is becoming so intertwined, which is, you know, I could build the best product, but if nobody knows about it, you know, it's fallen on deaf ears. So it, and it's really, it's really that we talked about that that is the trend where, which is gonna have great product, but the focus on a great customer experience and brand, and the integration of all that is really the trend. Mike Reynolds (23m 35s): That's going to be a winning recipe moving forward. Sean Sullivan (23m 38s): I w I completely agree. I mean, there's polar opposites and I found out there was some, there's a little, there's a little nugget in the middle that I have found out too in that is that anytime I go into another, you know, a SAS model or any company site, you know, usually the first offer, if they offer a discount or they offer something annual, just because of their MRR, AR whatever that could make or break them too, because especially in e-com SAS, that kind of stuff. If you offer a 10% discount or more, and you're losing profitability in your company, and then you switch it to a 5% model or something else that is going to hurt them, it could hurt them in the law. Sean Sullivan (24m 20s): It could hurt them in the short run, but it might be beneficial in the long run. But the thing is is that then you're completely changing your, your competence or not competency for you completely changing your customer base, because then you're going for more price sensitive people that are like, I want 10% and then extra versus I'll do 5% and do a loyalty program. And it could be very different. And if you don't start out with that initial offering, because that's what I've noticed, what you guys do too, is you do some content branding is that, that can either help or hurt the brand. Mike Reynolds (24m 51s): Yeah, I would say, I mean, the mega-trend that sits way beyond a product is, is in my eyes customer experience. And that is how people are choosing who they do business with. And what that force has come need to do is to not have an inside out. You've been an outside in view. And it's something since they want. I think Sean, you alluded to this observation early in this conversation, but philosophically, how do you make your product resonate with the user it's an outside in approach? How do you make it resonate with the buyer? It's an outside in approach? I think people are starting to pick up on that. I've got to pay attention to the user and maybe design the product that way. But I think you were just hinting on something that we're seeing, which is people still may be packaging it or pricing it or selling it with an inside out view. Mike Reynolds (25m 42s): And I would recommend a very similar philosophy, which is how do people want to consume this? How do they want to buy it? And that experience matters very much as well. You can alienate turn off buyers by not putting yourself in their shoes. And so, you know, just to speak to how do you come about the right go to market, go to market positioning. Packaging of your product is really similar approach to how do you come about the, the right feature set and right design. It's an outside in approach, you know? And so you do have to pay attention to how people are buying, why they bought your product, what do they like about your product, why they chose you over others. So just as much as you might have a product, people trying to get feedback on the actual product, you really want to be listening on the go-to-market market side, to why people are buying your product and you on that. Sean Sullivan (26m 34s): I love it. Yeah. I like that because I think we all think of the, the outside in, of like, how's this person, or how am I relating to this person rather than thinking of like, what should I be asking out of this person in order to help each other and not putting themselves? It's like, it's literally the adage tail putting yourself in the other person's shoes and, you know, yeah. It's, it's exactly that, you know, some people's shoes might be a heck of a lot bigger, like, you know, NBA stars that are, you know, 14, 16, but you know, some of us, you know, might be clown shoes. But the thing is, is that you're, you're, you're thinking as the person, as the user. Sean Sullivan (27m 14s): And so Mike, no more grilling questions here, but if you want to share a story about, you know, innovate map, helping a client, you know, a change, a pivot, something that you saw early on, something that you noticed that you had, you had to make a change in something that is possibly not online or not in the better product podcast, which I'll give a shout out to that too, that you kind of want to articulate or even dive in a little bit more of a story around that. Mike Reynolds (27m 41s): Yeah. I mean the first thing that's really coming to mind is it really a personal transformation w was when, you know, we've always, we, we can come in and help an existing product. We can refresh how we go to market and we can refresh its usability. It's very fun when we get to engage from an idea from the start, you know, so we do love the tech startups. That's a scene. We are not afraid of. In fact, we're helping there, but I will tell you what I've been seeing lately. Probably I to say Lee, I mean the last three years is the non-tech founder like seven years ago, Sean, we, if we worked in helped a dozen startups in a year, all 12 of the founders were serial tech savvy SAS experience tech founders. Mike Reynolds (28m 29s): And I would say that that was a hundred percent back then today, if we got 12, 25% would be of that origin. And the majority of what we seem right now are non-tech founders that are literally domain experts. It could be, Hey, I'm in the dental space, I'm a dentist. And I see this problem and I have this tech idea and I want to go solve that. Or I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, you know, I'm a farmer. I may be very serious here. I mean, the breadth of domain expertise, where people are seeing a problem with tech and solve the majority of the tech startups coming aware of that. And probably the thing, the reason that's that's top of mind for me is one, that's a trend, but I get very humbled at how much help they need. Mike Reynolds (29m 14s): And it's extremely, if you think kind of like the mission of what we're behind, it's extremely satisfying to help them. These are like it. I kind kinda sometimes feel like it's, it's a, it's a person that maybe watched a home remodeling on HDTV and a couple of YouTube videos, and now they're going to go remodel their kitchen. And there's a whole profession that has been doing that for 25 years. That would be like, Hey, if you're going to go do that, here are a couple of things you should know, because I've been doing this 25 years. We kind of have that kind of, that relationship with that audience. And so I have, we really transform a little bit of our business to not shy away from people that weren't tech savvy. I think our value prop and our help has been greater with them. Mike Reynolds (29m 55s): And I would say that that's a, that's a big, it's a, frankly, it's an unexpected change. I never expected so many tech startups to be by non-tech serial founders, but it's a delighter. Our value prop is high there because we're helpful. I'm, I'm, I'm pleased. We kind of figured out the ways to go help them. And in those instances, they aren't speaking our language from the get-go. So our service has to really be like a handholding concierge and educator of the journey you're about to go in, but that, that kind of comes to that story comes to mind and I'm pleased we get, we, we get those stories on occasion. They're some of my favorites, you know, when we help make a non-tech founder successful in tech, that's, that's a great thing, Sean Sullivan (30m 39s): But I've noticed the way that you talk and your passion towards that too. And you make a bigger impact, even though you're, you're handholding, it's like a little boy scout or girl scout holding a little grant, you know, grandparents hand across the tree. They need that extra little bit of help, but they're much more appreciative at the end and they will become not only your advocates, but they'll become your supporters and generating and more word of mouth that you've been talking about and more, you know, referrals saying, you know, this is my experience with innovate map. You know, you guys should go over there because I mean, I've heard from countless times with being in different companies, doing paid media, doing other things is that if you're not simple with it, if you're not driving a easy customer experience for them, they're going to hop over to another place where they're going to get, they're going to feel like they're welcomed. Sean Sullivan (31m 27s): They're not going to feel alienated. I mean, that's just simple human behavior and it is, it's amazing sometimes how we can miss that as a society. Yeah. I agree. Business offering too. So thanks. Thank you for sharing that. I really enjoyed that. If the non-tech, I wouldn't have thought of that either. So this part of the episode, everybody is about Mike Reynolds. So Mike, why do you do what you do? Why are you, what is the kind of the first thing when you get up in the morning? And this is why I love NFA map, this is why I love product design development, marketing, the whole shebang. Yeah. Mike Reynolds (32m 6s): I mean, two, two words come to mind and there there's separate answers. Why do we do innovate map? The word help is the first word that comes to mind. And I think that, you know, we set out to, we've got a passion and I'll speak positive about our team. We have people with incredible superpowers and then there's a whole sea of people that need our help. And we love to help them. I mean, that's, we are, you don't enter a professional services, you know, founding a business as professional service, if you are not wanting to help others. But then the second word that comes to mind that makes me spring up each morning is the team. I, you know, I I'm daily on a daily basis inspired by the excellence of, you know, people as passionate about product as passionate about our values. Mike Reynolds (32m 58s): It's not just that. Yeah, we did product in the past. Now it's go share that with everybody. We're we're still curious. We're trying to stay cutting edge or clients are counting on us being the expert. We've got to stay current on that, but what really wonderfully character, elite character people, elite skill people. They inspire me every day. The results of seeing how, not just me, but our company and our team members can help people very inspiring. So that I'd say the opportunity to help the next founder or the next leader combined with a team that, you know, delights and provides that help is, is, is very motivating on a daily basis. Sean Sullivan (33m 42s): It speaks to everything that you've talked about on your website and everything that you have taught, like when I've re read your bio. It said that exact same thing. When I read the website, it talks about it. But that's the thing is that you have a team, you know, and just meeting Sarah while we were in the green room and that kind of stuff, it speaks to everything that, you know, yet you're, you are the CEO, you are, you know, kind of the face of NMA map in a sense, but you also have this amazing team who has, you know, their mastery of certain things. And you kind of, it's kind of like you're Superman and everybody else has their own role and you just kind of raise them up, you know, you know, who do we need out of this project and who does really well at this? Sean Sullivan (34m 22s): Or, I mean, you could be a lead singer of a band and like, yeah, this is, but this guy's the best guitars or she's the best drummer. These are the people that we can get you in here to help you out. And so I noticed that, so, and I hope everybody else knows that too, if you've got a project or something, if you're a tech founder, non-tech founder, you know, head up innovate map, but you know, I've got two more questions for you for your mic. So, you know, what do you do as a, for a hobby? What do you kind of do to kind of recharge? Mike Reynolds (34m 50s): Yeah. I love the question. I I'll tell you. I'm a, I'm a family man. I've got a, my wife and I have five kids. I would say my children involvement with them as a hobby and then personally sports, whether it be being active myself or the best is the union between the two. So I do enjoy attending my children's sports. I coach, I, I take some voluntary opportunities with that, but as much as I can try to spend time with my family, as much as I can, my scape, my escape Shaun is consuming myself into sports. I'm a fan of all the professional leagues. Mike Reynolds (35m 32s): I'm a, I'm a diehard fan of a team in each league. I'm embarrassed to degree I them, but yeah, that, that, that certainly is something that I'll do to escape. Sean Sullivan (35m 43s): That's pride right there. And that's loyal. Yeah. There you go. So what do you, what do you do health wise? What kind of, you know, helps you recharge and kind of get you back into, at a center, you know, working, you know, kind of mode. Mike Reynolds (35m 57s): Yeah, it's great. And I'll just, I'll, I'll, I'll share just sort of may have a quick chuckle. I am human, you know, I've got my, you know what I'm about to say, I've got, you know, I wouldn't say I do a hundred percent of the time, but I know my go-to is I, I, you know, certainly I've got a routine each morning that sets up my day for success and is a combination of reflection. You know, I, I kind of, I wake up very early and I've got to get my exercise in. I spent some time, honestly, with a cup of coffee, mindlessly watching sports center with petting my dogs and that's kind of my warm-up time. And then I will exercise each morning and then typically on a commute to work, if we're commuting, that's when I make the mental transition from home to work, I'm a big podcast listener. Mike Reynolds (36m 47s): I either, depending on my mood, if there's 10 commutes in a week, I'm probably podcasts six of them and I'm music, the other four, I'm a big music lover. But that, that, that commute, you know, even when we weren't commuting, probably in like your, you know, early part of 2020, I was still assimilating it with walks around the neighborhood, you know, where I was getting a podcast. There's just a, there's just a warm up to get my head. Right. I'm a big believer in exercise. I, you know, I certainly try to exercise six, six at least six times a week. Now I should say six times. I don't ever, I rarely am I making it seven, but it's definitely not a once a week. And that that's good for mental health. Mike Reynolds (37m 28s): Good for being there for my family, my team that knew I got that out of the way. But then after that, after that little morning routine, Sean, at that point, candidly, I'm selfless the rest of the day. It's, I'm either there for the clients, the teams or my family, you know, I take that, that, that to our remote in the morning to get Mike right. And then I'm there for everyone else. And that's my choice. It's my passion. I, I, and I works for me. Let's put it that way. Sean Sullivan (37m 58s): I like it. I really do that. It helps you segment your day of where you need to be focusing, you know, Mike, you know, thank you for, you know, talking about product innovate, map, literally everything, your team. I mean, talking about the digital trends with products, you know, and starting in 2014, even before then, you know, kind of talking about the transition in your career for your passion was it really speaks to your, your focus on, and this, this connection between, it's not just a product, it's the connection between human beings of how, how can we help you get to that next level or to get you started out? Sean Sullivan (38m 39s): So, I mean, I mean, throughout our, this whole episode, I think guests should really, you know, reach out to you and talk about, you know, talk about innovate map, talk about, you know, different things because I mean, first interaction with you, you have, you have a way of pleasantly pointing people in the right direction without, you know, some people, it might come off harsh when you're like, have you thought about doing it this way or changing it this way? So, you know, Mike, I really appreciate you being on this episode, talking about your passions. And I hope that converge, you know, coffee listeners out there really appreciate. And I think they will. I know they will, you know, your little, your little dose of your little dose of products. Sean Sullivan (39m 24s): So thank you very much. Mike Reynolds (39m 26s): Sean has been a delight, really appreciate the conversation. So thank you for having me. I enjoyed it as well. Sean Sullivan (39m 32s): You're welcome. And thank you very much. And to all the converged coffee drinkers out there, that's a wrap 0 (39m 37s): .