Dustin Jones: Hello, and thank you for listening to the teaching, math, teaching, podcast. The teaching, math, teaching, podcast is sponsored by the association of mathematics, teacher, educators, a community of math teacher, educators, learning to teach math teachers better. I'm your Co. Host, Dusty Jones, and joining me today is co-host. Jen wolf, Hi, Jen.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Hey? Dusty! Good to be here.

Dustin Jones: Thanks. Today we're talking with Dr. Christa Jackson. We're really excited. She's a professor of mathematics, science and stem education at St. Louis University. We're talking to Christa because of her recent work in editing a series of books for the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics and Ctm. And we're excited to learn more about how these books can be used in mathematics, classrooms, and in mathematics. Teacher, education! Welcome, Christa! How are you doing today?

Christa Jackson: Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me here.

Dustin Jones: Oh, you're you're quite welcome. It's it's been a long time you've been on our guest list, you know, in the mind for a while, and we're just excited that we finally you know, we're able to connect here. Could you take a minute to introduce yourself beyond what I already shared. What did I miss.

Christa Jackson: Well, I am a person that enjoys reading. I don't know if you want additional personal background, but.

Dustin Jones: Sure. Yeah, just tell us about.

Christa Jackson: I enjoy reading. I enjoy reading particularly mysteries. Mysteries are my love, and my favorite color in the world is red. You cannot convince me otherwise that any other color is the most brilliant, beautiful color in the world. So red is my favorite color, and I have my husband. He his name is Michael Jackson. So yes, I am married to the Michael Jackson, and so yes, he can. Do people ask him. Can he do the Moonwalk? He says, no, I don't, moonwalk, but I can do a 2 step here and there, too.

Dustin Jones: I agree.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: I just have to ask you a question about reading. Are you someone who like? Do you have a favorite environment that you like to read in or like. Do you like music in the background, or like complete silence, like, What's your favorite way to read.

Christa Jackson: I really like reading outdoors because I love the nature, and if I can just have a good book and just start reading, whether it's on my balcony, or even if I go to a park and read there, I just enjoy reading and being when it with nature as well.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Oh, I love that. And you know, sometimes, with weather depending on where you are, you like one way that I recreate that kind of outdoor feel is to like, go to Netflix or go to like Youtube. And then those sceneries where they have the music, whether it's like, maybe I'm feeling like I want to be in a jazzy coffee shop, or maybe I feel like I want to be near the ocean, and then I just kind of bring it into my living room. So I just, I'm always curious with people who like to read. What's that environment that they find is conducive to reading for them. Thanks for sharing.

Dustin Jones: Yeah. And and Christa Jen, I don't know if you know this. Christa and I were both at the University of Missouri, working on our doctorates at the same time, and the the weird fact I like to tell people about how Christa and I are also connected is her husband. Michael's parents live in the same tiny town that my parents live in when I say tiny population around 500 And so it's really weird that we, you know. somehow connected there. So.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: That's so cool. It's a small world, right when you start, you know.

Christa Jackson: Very, very.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: The dots and math Ed for sure, and then.

Dustin Jones: Right.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Oh, okay. No.

Dustin Jones: So, Christa, thinking professionally some of your history. How did you start teaching math teachers? Or why did you start teaching math teachers.

Christa Jackson: Well, I started off teaching at the elementary level. I've always wanted to be a teacher that has always been my love. That has always been my joy, so much so that I would have my little sister and make her play school with me, and I would make her call me Miss Maven, so I have my little sign up, and she would have to call me Miss Maven, even if she wanted to go out the room. I was like, Nope. Miss Maven didn't give you permission so so, and I would teach her mathematics, because mathematics has always been a joy of mine, so she would, I would teach her mathematics and problem solving. And then from there, that's what led me to want to be a more and more of a teacher, because I've always wanted to be a teacher. But then I had the opportunity to teach middle school mathematics and middle school science because of my love and my joy, and that I have for that. So then, when I had the opportunity to go to Missou to pursue my doctorate, I was like this is, it's going to be a mathematics education. And I decided to do that because I wanted to expand my reach, because there's so many people that don't have this love for mathematics, and there are a lot of people, particularly in the area that I grew up with. You didn't see a whole lot of people that look like me black girls in mathematics. So I wanted to really embark on. How can I really showcase and spread that love to particularly our black and brown students that there is joy in doing mathematics and giving them that access and the opportunities that they need to really thrive in mathematics. because in the area that I lived in a lot of my friends who were PE people of color. They were not in the advanced mathematics courses, so I always often wondered about that, even as a little girl growing up. Why am I the only one in this course? What opportunities have I been given that they have not.

Dustin Jones: Mmhm.

Christa Jackson: Is it something that I just particularly excelled in? Or is it something that within the teaching aspect that we could really making sure that we're reaching each and every student, regardless of. not regardless of, because we have to take culture and background into account.In addition to their culture and their background, so that they can thrive in, excel and see theso the teachers and their parents and the community can see their mathematical brilliance. So that is one of the primary reasons that I went into teaching math teachers, because that's an area that. particularly at the elementary level. It's either you love it or you don't love it.

Dustin Jones: Right? Yeah, yeah. But what? What's the best advice that you received when you started teaching math teachers.

Christa Jackson: The best advice that I received is to really bring forth the joy of mathematics. Show your compassion and your passion towards mathematics, because then that would exude with the math to the math teachers that you are that I was working with. Because if you are not passionate about what you're doing, then you can't expect the others to be passionate about it. So when I'm teaching math teachers, I show forth my passion, and they're like. Oh, this isn't too bad, or this is something that is joyous and fun. So that was the best advice that I receive, and I continue that to this day. So for my passion and my excitement towards mathematics, because that spills over to that their passion. And it's like, Okay, yes, this can be done. This is a fun and exciting thing to do when I'm working with mathematics, teachers.

Dustin Jones: Yeah, that putting together some of the things you said, I'm reminded of the lesson I taught yesterday. It was about the 9 Point circle. And I, ever since I started teaching geometry 25 years ago. Students have always said, Why do we have to prove these theorems? It's true, it says, right here I read in the book, it's true. Why do we have to prove it? And so I tried to approach it with kind of a a mystery approach like what do you think might happen? Oh, my! Oh, my goodness! And and and and I had a lot of fun with it, and the students were as well. So that's just a snippet of you know somebody else trying to share their passion. And it it's infectious in a way. Yeah.

Christa Jackson: Exactly. It's just like puzzles, like a whodunit type. What do you think? And then and then sometimes my students, them, my pre service teachers, always get back at me. Don't wanna ask her what? Don't ask Dr. Jackson what she thinks are any questions, because she's just gonna turn around and ask you another.

Dustin Jones: Right.

Christa Jackson: That's one thing. When I was teaching in the classroom as well. It's like, don't ask Miss Mayban anything or Miss Jackson anything, because she's just gonna turn it around and give us back to as a question, because we want to inspire thinkers so that they're thinkers and doers and knowers of the mathematics, because if we continue to tell, they're not learning and doing anything of of their own, because they're just regurgitating what we are giving them. And that's one thing that I passionately share with my pre-service teachers refrain from the telling, because even though we think we're helping our students, we're actually hindering their learning.

Dustin Jones: so what's a word or phrase or or quote that helps you center the work that you do in teaching, math teachers.

Christa Jackson: Brilliance of students always keep their brilliance in mind, so that when I'm working with math teachers I want them to focus on the students and their mathematical breeze, brilliance, and what they can do, but and not what they cannot do. And if they cannot get all they can't understand these fractions, these percentages or these decimals. But they can do this, they do have this understanding. So how can we focus on their brilliance and bring that to and use that as an asset to help them learn concepts that they may be struggling with.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Oh, and I just I just wanna a shout out here, Christa, so you brought out this brilliance, and I'm like excited that that's your word that you center because there's a a book chapter that you have in equity and access. where you talk about Miss Dallasen. And so I've paired yeah, reading with principles to actions. They're productive and unproductive beliefs. And so we, after reading that wonderful piece that you co-authored we go into it. It it goes right into, how can someone hold both productive and unproductive beliefs? And then we do like a little belief card sort and really start to interrogate like, what are those different biases I have? What do I see? Is what mathematics can be and do. And what do I believe about students capabilities. So I just wanna shout out that that work has been influential and helping me think about how to work with pre-service teachers and interrogating and unpacking those productive and unproductive beliefs where we center students, brilliances.

Christa Jackson: Thank you. Thank you.

Dustin Jones: And we'll put it.

Christa Jackson: Important.

Dustin Jones: Yeah, we'll we'll put a link to that in the show notes so folks can find that article and and and and be inspired. Use that.

Christa. You've mentioned some of these things already. I'll just ask it out right. What advice would you give to someone else starting out in this role of teaching math teachers. What would you share.

Christa Jackson: I would share with him to never, ever give up. continue to press, and then, because what you're doing is making a difference, and see the brilliance of each and every child, because each and every child has some brilliance and mathematical understanding to offer. And then one other piece of of advice that I will center in with mathematics, teachers is that show the joy and the beauty of mathematics, even though, if you don't necessarily see it initially yourself. But begin as you're beginning to show the Jo show. Bring out the joy and the beauty of the mathematics, then that opens up a whole world of mathematics more than just numbers, because. as mathematics is so much more than what we consider as school mathematics, so really showcasing that mathematics is in every single thing that we do. And that's how we relate. And that's actually how we live. So showing that when particularly when our scholars are struggling in mathematics, and they say, Oh, I hate mathematics, or I can't do mathematics, but showing that everything that they do in their life is mathematics for them to just decide what clothes that they want to wear, and what combinations, what shirt they want to wear, with what bottoms, whether it's a pair of pants or shorts, those different combinations. They're doing mathematics just in that. So showing the relatedness of mathematics is one thing that I would share.

Dustin Jones: Awesome.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: I know you all can't see this, but I wish I was a student in Christa's classroom, because I can just feel the joy in the space that we're in right now, like yours. Mile is infectious. I have always thought that. So every time I'm around you I'm like she makes me happy. It's good to be around. So I imagine that your students really enjoy the way you engage in in their brilliant.

Christa Jackson: So much.

Dustin Jones: Christa, how.

Christa Jackson: And yeah.

Dustin Jones: How? How do you set boundaries and priorities within and outside of the work that you do.

Christa Jackson: Oh, wow, yeah. Some people say that I'm still need to work. Well, Michael will say I still need to work on that. But I think I'm doing a fairly decent job so well in some respects. So I I'll take that back a little bit. But I would set the way that I set my boundaries on the work that I do. I'd like to do my work, of course, throughout the week. and one thing that I have promised myself as well as my mom because she said that I need to start really taking some time off. And I'm listening to my mom to make sure that I'm being good to myself. Mentally as well as physically. I really turn off everything on late Saturday evening, and I do not do any work on Sundays to not be the case. I would just plow right through. It's like, I gotta get this done. I have to do this, and but you do have to set boundaries for family, for personal as well as keeping that outside of the professional. Even though I love what I do, you have to set those boundaries because we're only in this area for just a set period of time. So.

Dustin Jones: Yeah, hmm! And and many of our guests have said, Oh, this is this is great. I'm I'm really trying to do this, but I mean, it's hard, you know, if you love the work that you do. and E, and you feel it's very important, then why not spend more time on it. But, like you said to take care of yourself, both mentally and physically, we need. We need some of that rest time. So that's that's great.

Christa Jackson: And another thing that I like to do. It works for me. I'm the one that likes to check my email on my phone. And I know some people don't have it on their phone. So when I'm at home, I set my phone way away so I can't just be pick it up so aside, so that I will have to if I really want to do it. I have to physically go over and make a mental physical effort, so that has also helped as well.

Dustin Jones: Yeah, that's cool.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: And just stick in another room. I like that.

Dustin Jones: So I'm excited about these books. And and I've I've looked at the Nctn website. I've I'll put the link in the show notes. The series is called powerful mathematicians who change the world and it right now, I think there are 4 books in the series, and for all grade levels. But let me not let me not say more about it. Let me ask you, you know, what's this about? And and who is the intended audience for these books.

Christa Jackson: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So this I'm really, really, really excited about. So the powerful mathematicians who changed the world is a book series that really focuses on our under represented mathematicians. So our mathematicians of color, as well as our women mathematicians. particularly in the school setting, we hear about our white male mathematicians, and we hear a lot about what work they've done. We've heard about Pythagoras, and we know about the Pythagorean theorem. We've heard of the we heard a gauze. We heard of Euler and all all of these other wonderful, amazing mathematicians. So we're not taking anything away from them or their contributions because they have set us at An at new Epiphanies. But there are also mathematicians that we typically do not hear about in the classroom, but we should be hearing about all of their wonderful mathematical contributions and their work that they have done so. The powerful mathematicians book series is really centered on those under represented mathematicians that we typically don't hear about in the classroom. And those mathematicians that are in the book series are real mathematicians. They are not fictitious at all.

Dustin Jones: Mmhm.

Christa Jackson: And their mathematical contributions are real as well. However, the storyline for each of the books is totally fiction, and that's what I love, and this is what I call the genre genre of creative fiction. So each of the books is a work of creative fiction, where the mathematician and their mathematical contributions are true, but the storyline is fictitious. So with that that really captures the readers at all levels. So we have the readers that for the read alouds for our early childhood, our kindergarten preschool, so that it really captures their interest, and they learn about the mathematicians, and they can do the mathematics along with what's in the book. So it's centering their mathematics. But at each of the different grade levels or age levels. So it's really targeting not only the younger children as well as the older children that are getting them more interested in reading the books, but it also targets adults, because I myself. I also enjoy reading young adults and children's literature, and then having that avenue to see someone that looks like me sounds and has become a mathematician. with the powerful Mathematicians book series is really targeted to children of all ages. All the way up to a hundred, 2.

Dustin Jones: Okay. Great.

Christa Jackson: In and within the book series. Within each of the books there is opportunities to engage in the mathematics as well. So like in the dazzling data book that features Talesia Williams the math. The early childhood learners can engage in the mathematics as the teacher or parent is doing the read alike read it out because it could be read it out to the students by the teacher, or a parent or a guardian, or they could read it out aloud themselves, so they can actually engage in the book. And what I really love about each of these books, it really targets the mathematics. So the reader is doing the mathematics. They are the doers of the mathematics. So they're engaging in the mathematics, for example, in the mystery underground. Agnes Meyer Driscoll was a cryptologist, and so, therefore, as the readers are engaging in the story they're using and engaging in decoding and siphon, and they're doing that crypt analysis. So they are doing that work. And it's just it's just exciting.

Dustin Jones: Yeah. that that sounds exciting. You've got these these books. It looks like they're kind of targeted toward grade bands, although, like you said up to ages 102, I love that and the art also, I just wanna mention, you know, from what I've seen is is fantastic. Your artist, Estrella Bascuñian.

Christa Jackson: Is from Spain.

Dustin Jones: From Spain. Awesome. So it's it's lovely. So there's 4 right now. Are there more coming.

Christa Jackson: Yes, we're really excited about that. So the whole book series, as of right now, will be a total of 13 books.

Dustin Jones: Oh, wow! That's great!

Christa Jackson: Is really, really exciting. We're hoping that we'll have a new set at the Nctm. Annual. Depend upon how the production line goes that will be on the shelves in addition to the 4 that are already out.

Dustin Jones: Oh, that's great!

Jennifer A. Wolfe: That's so cool. I love it because you mentioned the artwork. It's amazing. And then I feel like there's lots of hidden stuff like, if you look at what's on the blackboard, or like so a little teaser, if you get those books, or I should say, when you get those books, be looking for just those little details that that are in the books. Yeah, I love it.

Christa Jackson: Yes, and the authors for each of the book series have been amazing. So have a team of authors for for each of the book series, and just their ingenuity, their creativity, and their excitement and their passion that has gone forth in writing these books, because for many of them this is typically out of their will house. From what they normally write, they normally write for academia, or they write research, or they're doing this. But then to write and target our young learners. And in this area, as well as working with prospective teachers and math minus teachers in general, this has been amazing. So I wanna do? A huge, huge shout out to all of the authors on the team.

Dustin Jones: That's great!

Christa Jackson: Are wonderful.

Dustin Jones: That's great. It's always nice when you are working with a bunch of people who are really passionate and creative and skilled and excited, to do what they're doing. It makes it feel like it's not work, you know. You're just having a great time. And then there's this awesome product that that comes out as well. What are some? I think the it it I hope these are in school libraries, I hope these are, you know, in children's homes or grandparents homes, you know. So people can. So children can interact. Students can interact with these. As a math teacher, educator, what are some ways that that we could use these as we prepare our future teachers. How how are some ways that we can incorporate these books.

Christa Jackson: Really focusing on the brilliance of all. And one thing that I really like about what we've done with the book series is we targeted specific ways in the either in the more for you resources or in the book itself, that this can be extended with math in the, in the mathematics, classroom, or with teachers as well. So we provided different additional resources. Additional planning guys, addition discussion prompts that teachers can use. And that is one way that mathematics, teacher educators can use them, too. So when they're teaching, focusing on a specific aspect in their in their methods course, or even in their content courses. And then they're focusing on different mathematics or different realms of doing things and talking about even talking about culture as even social justice, because that is one thing that each of the books really centers on. It brings out a social justice aspect. So it brings it out so it could be something that the mathematician themselves had to deal with, or the characters in themselves that they had to deal with so. But they're using that mathematics to circumvent that, too. So there is focusing on that so it could be used in a variety of different ways.

Dustin Jones: Yeah. I I really like how you you've gotta focus on some social justice aspect in there. From the illustrations you can, the students can see, not only from the illustrations, but also from the mathematicians that are highlighted. The students can more students have a chance to see themselves in those mathematicians as a white male. I can kinda see myself in Gauss or Euler, or something. But it's really great to see all of the different representation the diversity that we actually see in our classrooms, in the characters in these, in these books. And so that's wonderful.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Yeah, it's an emotional thing, I would imagine, too. I mean, I just when I saw the series, and when I see more and more. Now, what's available in terms of like do I see myself and others represented in this space that typically I haven't seen before. So it's hard to imagine or dream what you can do, or what you can become when it's not always represented in the literature that you've seen in your life. Right? So I think there's just so so many ways that I'm excited that this project is gonna even have more books to it. So fitting.

Dustin Jones: I also like the authenticness of you're talking about a real person, a real mathematician. And here are the real mathematics that they've done. So you're not just inventing somebody. And you know, using a a using a crayon that we don't normally use to color that person in and and making something up. But it's it's real life. So that's that's really exciting. Exactly. And.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: This exists, and we see that we see these folks thriving right? Not just this existence, but the thriving and the joy that yeah, yep.

Dustin Jones: Christa. We you've told us some things that you like to do outside of your role you you mentioned reading. We all know your favorite colors, red, and you said that so emphatically that I am not even going to try to convince you anything about green.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: No like have you seen? I mean, I'm not like Mazda, sole red. that color on the like. If you ever see a Mazda go by. They have like this color that's sole red, and I feel like if you're a big fan of red, you would like that color. I don't know about Mazda. But yeah. it's a really pretty red.

Christa Jackson: Okay.

Dustin Jones: Is there.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: Little sidebar there.

Dustin Jones: Chris, is there anything else that you'd like to promote or share with us? While you have the microphone.

Christa Jackson: Hmm! Well, personally, I do enjoy. And this something that some people don't know about me is, I enjoy playing games. I am a game fanatic. Of course. I'm very, very competitive, too. So so people really think I'm really, really quiet until they get in a game with me. So that's when I was like. who is this person? So I really really enjoy games, and I love all kinds of games.

Dustin Jones: And so.

Christa Jackson: That's something that I enjoy doing as well.

Dustin Jones: What's what's the what's the game you played most recently?

Christa Jackson: Oh, my goodness, it's a game called Dominion, and I enjoy playing that game. But like I said. I'll play any types of games, and that's one way that I could lose myself, because I can play a game by myself and be just as content. And it goes on and on for hours.

Dustin Jones: Awesome.

Jennifer A. Wolfe: So when Nctm. Started doing game night, you were probably like, I'm there. I'm there. I'm ready.

Christa Jackson: That's me. Watch out!

Dustin Jones: Christa. It has been a pleasure to talk with you today. Thanks so much.

Christa Jackson: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Dustin Jones: Yup and thanks again to you listeners. For listening to the teaching math teaching, podcast if you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast we hope you're able to take action on something you just heard. Go check out those books and and interact with other mathematics, teacher, educators. Did you know that Amte has another podcast. Called the mathematics teacher, educator, podcast it accompanies the latest edition of the mathematics, teacher, educator, journal, and has authors discussed the work that have been published in the journal, you can find a link to that podcast in the show notes for this episode.