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Dusty Jones: Hello, and thank you for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast. The teaching math teaching podcast is sponsored by the association of mathematics, teacher, educators, a community of math teacher educators learning to teach math teachers better. I'm your co-host, Dusty Jones, and joining me today is Jen Wolf Jen. How are you doing today? Good! Glad to be here great. Uh today we're talking with Dr. Shawn Dank, who is a distinguished teacher in residence and an adjunct professor at California State University. San Marcos, a full professor at American College of Education and Works for Oceanside Unified School district in California. We're talking to Shawn because of his work as a mathematics, teacher and coach, who helps highlight and celebrate students mathematics, and also because of his role as editor of the Journal of Mathematics, education, leadership. So we've got lots of stuff to talk about. Welcome, Shawn. How are you doing today?

Sean Nank: I'm doing great. How are you doing? 

Dusty Jones: I i'm doing well. Thanks. For asking. Yeah, I had. I had a faculty meeting today, and that's always I feel uh before they start, and when I get done i'm like yay, it's done so excited for the podcast. Um! Can you take a minute to introduce yourself? Maybe say a little bit more, maybe more than I've already mentioned. What did I miss?

Sean Nank: Um? Well, i'm on a date myself and say I changed my name. Hello! My name is Anigo Montoya. You killed my father prepared to die. The longer I go on with that the less people know what I mean. No, it's um, I guess, pertin into this talk. Uh well, i'm on the Ncsm Board. I recently became a board member a couple of weeks ago for the and i'm the editor for the JMEL for NCSM, and also relevant to this talk. I've been a two-term past President for the greater San Diego Mathematics council a bunch of odd jobs here and there from the Nsf. Us. Department of Education California Commission, a teacher Credentialing. I've been a coach as well worked for illustrative mathematics, one hundred and fifty, and learn Zillion as well wrote some curricula just finished my term as an Nctm. Work member as well. Um like I said, I write curricula on my author some things, but if I had to say the most important aspect not pertinent to this talk. But it kind of is because it changes the way I lead and teaches. I'm a dad, the most amazingly wonderful daughter that anybody could ever ask for.

Dusty Jones: That's that's awesome. That's. And and in a way it is relevant to this talk because it is who you are. And so uh, we. We've talked with other people who have said, you know I need to bring my full self uh into this uh role. So how did you? This is the teaching math teaching podcast. And so we like to ask people, how did you get your start in this. How did you start teaching math teachers? Maybe as a math coach?

Sean Nank: Yeah. Well, I after I received my doctorate I started teaching math teachers at a couple of universities, an American college at education in Cal State, San Marcos. But I also found myself kind of falling into other leadership roles that I wasn't necessarily pursuing. It's just when you work with good people you find out what they're doing, and you start doing it with them. Um, i'd say the way that I really started teaching it and getting my coaching likes under me, was: my big break to really scale my impact, so to say where, when Steve line one introduced me to Eric Western Darfur and I got to work with learn zealous starting in two thousand and fourteen. That's when I really started like learning from coach. It's how to coach and see how they worked with other people. Um! Up with that as well. I also work for different companies going around the country, teaching math teachers how to teach better, designing professional development for people. So I kind of slid into it. I wasn't really looking for the role. It was more a matter of.

Dusty Jones: So when you started uh doing, you know, working with learn, Zillion is that is that curriculum writing. Is that what what were you doing with learn, Zillion?

Sean Nank: I was a coach to people who were writing the curriculum, so we had subsets of people as we started, adding with the learn Zillion curriculum, I would coach the teachers who are writing the at first the um, first the videos and the lessons, then the chapter. Um. So that's how I started with that. And then it just evolved from there. Yeah. So what was the best advice that you received when you started doing that, don't screw 'em up. I'm kind of half kidding, but maybe not because we can do harm in those position. I mean, I I think to myself about all the people who've coached man who've led me, and some of them have done not good a job. Other people just kind of left me along, which was great. But there's a few who just totally changed my trajectory. But um in terms of advice. When I started out I was kind of solo. I didn't really have a mentor for coaching math teachers or teaching math teachers or anything like that. But I would say, now that I've gotten to know more people who do this as a profession It Some of the things that they tell me now that I wish I had known before, so I would have made less mistakes to get rid of my imposter syndrome, because when you're in the classroom you think you're just a math teacher, but that's the most important job in the world. But there is a difference. There's a transition when you start coaching and we start meeting um. So now, in terms of what people have told me, I would say. The best type of advice that I have received since then is just that i'm thinking of something that that dear friend of mine, Keith Armstrong, who's the most lovely, profound human being I have or will ever meet, gave me advice, and he said that it's hard to choose the one thing that um that he said, because he said so many things. But if I had to, the advice would be that to share myself with the teachers, to share myself with people that i'm coaching and leading, because he let me know that I was worth it. And then what I had to say mattered, and that people need to hear that they matter as well. Um, He also said, people need to feel the way that I teach so that they can know how they should let their students feel. Uh, so they can let people know that they care. I think the thing, though, that really push me over the edge to start leading and start coaching and teaching math teachers was when a a library was talking to me and somebody else got a leadership position, and he just looked at me, and he said, If not you, then who somebody's going to get that position? Somebody is going to coach, so I think you'd be great at it. Why are you going for these types of positions? And that's when I thought, Oh, Okay, it's It's that person who I never thought of myself that way. But somebody else did so.

Dusty Jones: Maybe there's something to it.

Jennifer A Wolfe: So i'm. I'm curious. Shawn. You talked a little bit about earlier. Um, the this imposter syndrome feeling right? And so in your coaching like, what have you done to kind of help others who might be in a similar position, like other teachers. Have you encountered that, or other teachers have felt kind of impostor? Or should they be teaching math or how to teach math.

Sean Nank: Yeah. And it's quite honestly the the lower the grade level, the more that is. Uh. So when I coach at the high school level the math. Sometimes you have to coach about the math, but more you have to coach about making sure that they realize that it's never about the math. It's always about the people, but at the elementary level I find myself with the majority of the people trying to get them to realize the math isn't the way they experienced it in math. Is it that they're good at math that they're math people that they know how to do it. They just need to figure out a different way of thinking about mathematics, so they can help their students learn it in a different way than what they were exposed to. So for a lot of people, especially at the elementary level, it's a matter of getting them over that math phobia getting them over that imposter syndrome of I didn't know what this stuff was, and i'm never going to know what it is, and let them realize that there's a beauty in mathematics that they maybe haven't seen before, And it's actually, in my opinion, when you start thinking about it conceptually instead of procedurally, it's easier because then the students get to talk about what the math really is, instead of just memorizing an algorithm

Dusty Jones: yeah, that's cool. Besides helping people get over their impostor syndrome, or What what other advice would you give to somebody who was starting as a coach?

Sean Nank: I think this single biggest thing I would say is before day one you need to know your why, so you can move through this role with purpose. And and another aspect is I especially if you're going into a coaching role that's outside of the classroom. You may not have a classroom of the own people who are lucky enough to have one or two classes and coach. I think that's wonderful, because they're still rooted in the classroom, and i'm gonna say this one way. But then i'm gonna try to clean it up. So I don't throw myself under the bus. But if you're coaching people and you're outside of the classroom, it's kind of a matter of stop telling us what to do, and the clarity in that is that if you're outside of the K through twelve classroom, then I mean, nobody forgets the fact that the people who matters most are the students. And then, if I had to choose for the adults who matter the most, that's going to be the teachers, and Then comes us as leaders in the hierarchy. One thing that I realized because I taught for a quarter of a century, and then I went to Cal State, San Marcos full time as a distinguished teacher in residence, and now i'm back in the classroom within six months of being out of the classroom for those three years I felt like I was losing subtle perspectives of what it's like to be in the classroom. The class sizes of forty-two to fifty-two I think isn't bad, is it? Is what it is. But our job is hard in the classroom, and when you're outside of the classroom, then it's a matter of showing people empathy and realizing that you forget. Just last week I was trying to start a third period class, and I have five students have needs that they need, but they need it tended to within the first two minutes, and then, within the first five minutes I had three adults popping in to interrupt me with nothing having to do with the class, and then I had to like, get everything back on track when I was outside of the classroom, for those couple of years you tend to forget, like exactly the dynamic and the calmness it takes as a teacher, so it's a matter of. I think i'll qualify instead of telling us what to do. Listen. Center yourself in the knowledge that you're not responsible for the students. If you're a coach, you're responsible for the people who are responsible for the students. Um! So that's why, in even more so when I wasn't in the classroom teaching the university courses, I would always start all my courses, especially with the the credential or the licensure uh students, with four words, which is, How is it going? And that's how I coach, too. I always start with a How is it going? Because, especially if i'm out of the classroom, it helps me to listen and linger in that conversation with empathy, and it helps me to root myself and my purpose in their reality. Because even as I yeah, I designed a protocol of coaching where I was in the classroom still, and I had the same The same classes is uh the people I was coaching, which was wonderful, because I was going through the same things they were. But even then, when I was in the classroom coaching them, I would still ask how it's going, because well, today. I'll tell you right now. My third period for my fifth period class totally different. So you can assume that you know what somebody else is going through what the students are like, because we're all dynamically, beautifully interesting. And

Jennifer A Wolfe: that's so important, because what I i'm getting from this from you is that you really approach it from like a partnership view, like we have this title of coach on it, but it sounds like you come at it from a I'm. In partnership and learning from and with you as we try to figure out this teaching journey thing

Sean Nank: right? Yeah. And even more so than that, it's a matter of if you're out of the classroom in any coaching or any type of leadership, position, teaching at a university. Whatever it may be, you have the luxury of time which people in the classroom don't have. So that makes you invaluable, because it, like teachers, can say something, and we don't have enough hours in the day, week, month, or year, to actually do something with what we're saying a lot of the time we have to pick and choose our battles because we're teaching all the time. But for people who aren't as we listen, we have the luxury of that time to think really deeply about it, and come back to that conversation with. Well, I found these resources, and I really thought about what you were saying. Let's try this, this, this not a matter of. I want to tell you what's going to work, but it's more a matter of I listen to you. I thought about it. Let's see if this works. It is kind of the way I like the conversation going, and then it is a partnership, because it's all about relationships. I mean every every aspect of education is all about relationships, and I've seen coaches who have great relationships, and they get teachers to do things that I never thought they could do. But if you don't have that relationship, it's kind of like you have to have the conversation before you have the conversation. So yeah, going back to the relationships right? Not just between you and the people that you're coaching. But then, like showing a parallel to um when the teachers are working with their students, that that's a community. And we're learning together. Yeah. And it's also in order to do that It's kind of a matter of seek psychological counseling. If you want to become a coach, not because you're crazy, but because you, in order to be a teacher, you really need to know yourself, because your students are going to figure out who you are. Same thing with the coach. The teachers are going to see right through you, so you really need to know who you are, so that some other vice advice I could give is Re it? Take a personality test. See if you're amiable, driver, analytical or expressive, that comes from uh people styles at work and beyond a book. Um, and they it sounds weird to say, But know your love language. Uh you have. What is it physical touch, quality, time, words of affirmation, acts of service. And yes, it's the five Love Languages book from chat, man, and yeah, it's about love. But it's about every relationship. I think so. Like one of the people I was coaching. They weren't getting along too well with most of the people on campus. The first time I met with this person, my go was to find out what was their personality and what's their language? What's their love language? And as soon as I found out that they were words of affirmation, I was able to see that that's the one thing that they want to get, and it doesn't mean that you make stuff up. It means that you find something good to say, and it really matters to that person that you say something good about them when you meet them, and then that helps build the relationship, and it helps them to hear things, and that they really need to hear that they might not.

Dusty Jones: I've heard without thatwe hadn't. I hadn't thought through all this, but one of my love languages is uh like my top. One is probably acts of service, and one that I am not good at, and and Don't really care so much about is gifts. And so when it came to be Teacher Appreciation day, and people are giving me a mug with some candy in it. I'm like Well, yes, i'll eat the candy. But um, I don't really care so much about the mug. Thank you. I feel appreciated. Thanks. But when she came in and had cut out uh one hundred nets for cubes, so that my students could do something with that, I thought, Oh, you have given me this active service. Thank you so much. It really meant a lot to me, and so and and maybe not so much to somebody else, I don't know, but I know that meant a lot to me. So you're really helping me reflect on some of my own experiences I've had as a teacher as well. That's great.

Sean Nank: And yeah, once, you know, there's two. Then you can start couching it under what they're gonna hear. And it's kind of tricky, too, because i'm not. I am not. Yes, I tested. You guys can buy me anything you want. I'll be really appreciative. Send me whatever you want, but i'm not gif. But here's the way you trick yourself. If somebody gives you a gift for me. I am one hundred percent dead, even with the quality, time and physical touch. So for me to value gifts, I look for the quality time that they spent to think about me, to think of a good gift, and then that gift means the world to me. So

Dusty Jones: that's great that reframing and thinking about it a different way. Yeah. So one of the things we like to do um with the podcast is help people um who are who are working at it. Maybe they're new. Maybe they're They've been doing this for a long time, but just giving some tips and tricks and advice of of different things, and one that we talk about this season is setting boundaries and priorities, so that we get the right things done and still enjoy our lives. So we're not trying to say, How do you just get things done? Because one hundred and fifty productivity, maybe is in and of itself is not the goal. But there are things that we need to get done. And so we What have you done, uh, or how? How do you? How do you set those boundaries and priorities, so that you get the right things done. Still enjoy your life. And i'm guessing one hundred and fifty talking about your daughter and experiences with her might come into this, since that's one of the things that you do to enjoy your life. I spend time spending quality time with her. I guess as I make some inferences.

Sean Nank: Yeah. And one of the aspects to that, too, is realizing that you have to take care of yourself. Take care of others. Um! And one of the things I think of when I finally decide to take a little time off is that one of my goals when I coach and lead is to be far less memorable. Um! What I mean by that is like we all want to be remembered. But as leaders like the biggest impact we can make on people are the changes that they thread through their their purpose. It like becomes a part of them, so they really can't tell that it came from us, so that kind of like helps me to realize that it's about them. But if I don't make it about me every once in a while. I'm not going to be able to do that. Um, To be quite honest with the first. The first thing I think of is if you figure it out, let me know in terms of balancing. I too many jobs. But i'm reminded of of a quote that I heard on Dexter this series. Um it it once something like embrace those who seek the truth. But we wear those who say they've already found it. So i'm going to tell you right now. I haven't found the answer to this, but i'm like, okay, I'll say I found the answer to this, but I am not good, because the answer is like learning the power of no. And I just don't do that often, because it's hard to say no one. You can make an impact, but it's critical to make sure that you're not spread to them so like a a concrete example I could give you is when the pandemic started. I started taking on way too many projects, and I started working way too many hours, and that's led into this, you know, Today you you just kind of it doesn't feel like work when you're passionate about it until it really starts feeling the like work, because you're overwhelmed. So one of the things I started doing is, I chose a time during the day every evening and on the weekend, and I would take my laptop, and I would unplug it, and then, as soon as the battery was dead, i'm done so. That kind of gave me the account, and there's been times that I plugged the laptop back in. But if i'm doing good for the day when the battery is low, twenty or less, if it's a Mac, and it has eight hours of battery life unplugged at about nine or ten o'clock in the morning. But for mine I got a Pc. And I know what. About three or four o'clock. I'm gonna unplug it so that when it goes dead i'm done for the day, and that's really helped me a lot to have that just queue of You've been what you were supposed to stop a couple of hours ago. And now your battery dying. Stop! Just go do something else. But it's also that aspect of finding time, like just yesterday. If you don't make the space, then you can't say Yeah. So just yesterday I got into dance because my daughter's in the dance, and I started. Long story short, I never thought i'd do ballet for a single day in my life, but then I started doing it with her, and then by two thousand and nineteen, I tried out kind of as a joke, and I was a part of a professional ballet company doing the nutcracker. Um, and I just got a call yesterday. They said, we need. We need guys for the net cracker. Do you want to do it? So it's that aspect of Okay, I need to start saying no to some things so that I can do that because I really need to have the thing. So I'm:

Jennifer A Wolfe: that's I. I really like that laptop thing that's That's a nice tip, right? Because it's like, Okay, that's a nice check. In are your battery slow. Maybe you need to find out what's going to recharge you. Your laptops battery is low, so what can you do to kind of recharge yourself

Dusty Jones: so, Shawn. One thing that  that we wanted to talk to you about uh relates to a talk that you gave at Shadow Con just a couple of months ago, in whenever people are listening to this in two thousand and twenty-two um! And uh, you spoke about emphasizing students, mathematics and the beauty and patterns that students see. And so i'm wondering what are some practical strategies you've used, maybe this year to help emphasize the students mathematics, and what they see, and and how that's impacted the educational space with your students.

Sean Nank: Yeah, that's um. I can give you some concrete and then tell you the why behind it uh one of the aspects. Is it in? Yeah, if you want to watch the shadow count video, it's on my website, or it's it's on Shadow cons website as well. The first thing is like One of the things I said was that there was way too much of our math in math classrooms. So it's a matter of getting students voices heard and getting it heard in a mathematical way, and in a personal way, because when it comes down to it. We need to embrace who we are as educators, so that we can help our students embrace who they are, So we can embrace the mathematics together, because we don't hear them when they're not going to hear the mathematics. They're not going to see it. So there's a couple of things that I've done, and I have a hundred different things come to mind. But there's things i'm trying this here. One is uh blank walls uh what I did was, I stripped my walls. I gave myself my little corner of ten mine. I can put whatever I want on it. The other ninety, the first day of school. I told the students. Why am I going to tell you that this is our classroom? And this is our mathematics, and I'm going to layer the walls with things that you may not care about. Um. The other thing is a best friend, I call it the best friend like not in a creepy best friend way. But take a student or two that doesn't talk that much in your class, and act like they are the best friend that you Haven't seen for a while. Hey, How's it going? How is your weekend? And it's funny now that i'm doing this? They're starting to ask me the same questions. What you do this weekend, how to go? How's your day going? Stuff like that? But I purposefully try to pick students who I haven't heard from lately, so I can have the conversation that has nothing to do with the mathematics, so that we can have the conversation about map. I started doing a Thursday share day as well. It's kind of like a show Intel, but not really because you don't have to show anything it's. Just tell us about yourselves. And another thing that I started doing that really took a lot of um coming out of the box for me like out of my comfort zone is, I would periodically wear a kilt, cause i'm Irish and Scottish. So I told them. This just came about the first week. They're like. What are you going to do to show us who you are. I'm like Well, I wear a kill. And they said, Well, why don't you wear it? So? Maybe I will. So Wednesdays kilt day, and there was one Wednesday where I forgot to put it on. There's like, where's your kil? So it's just kind of doing things that let's we're wearing pants instead. Maybe. Yeah, I put something on. But one of the really tangible things so that I just started up right now. It's a passion project that's been evolutionary started as a modeling mathematical modeling project. But then I started working with a colleague, and you really tightened it up. So the passion project is, they group together, they pick their passion, and then what they do is they find a grade specific, mathematical, construct that has to do with their passion and what they wind up doing with the I have a rubric and everything else for it in directions, and they just shoot a two minute video with their grip, where they show us their passion, and they show the mathematics inherent in their passion. And I try to push them to and not say something like Well, my passion is dancing, and I counted the number of heartbeats that's great, but let's go a little bit deeper into what's what is really the underlying mathematics, because then I hope I mean, I know that i'll find more about that more. I found out more about them through their passion, but I hope that it kind of leads over to the mathematics, and my pitch to them is, Yeah, I mean No, you don't need to know the mathematics in order to be passionate. But it's another way of looking at the world. It's another way of looking at your passion, and maybe there's something you'll see in your passion that you wouldn't have seen if you didn't look at it mathematically, so you can be better at it more passionate about. But it's all of them are designed to make sure that no matter the pedagogical strategy, curriculum structure goals, It's always a matter of asking that what they think about it and listening to them. And it's also a matter of I won't spoil or alert the shadow con video, but it's don't do what I've done for four decades, which is, I kept things. I I plan on keeping things about myself a secret, my entire life. But then I realized that I was lying to everybody by our mission, and I wasn't sharing a part of myself that I should be sharing with my students. And it's funny because that just happened like in two, three weeks ago, from when we're recording this, and I already had some students find it online, and one of the students came up and just said something out loud that he never thought he would say out loud, and just like you like, bear hug me for like a solid minute because he realized that you know his disabilities are I mean, it's a part of who he is, but it's nowhere near who he is, and it surprises me that students don't really hear that nearly as often as they should; that if you feel inadequate, if you feel like you're not a math person. If you've been diagnosed, if you have an Ip, if you have a five hundred and four, if you're an English learner, that's just the part that's you know where you are, and that's nowhere near how how much you can thrive and enjoy mathematics in our classroom. So it's just getting them to talk, getting them to to see math, and the way that I see math um outside of the classroom, and to bring that in the classroom with that

Dusty Jones: So I want to switch gears to a different role that you've got with the National Council of Supervisors as the editor of Journal of Mathematics, education, Leadership, or the Ncsm. Jml: I think, is how you guys refer to it. Um! What sort of first of all congratulations on being named? Editor. That's that that's awesome, and also a lot of work probably coming here. But what sorts of things will math teacher educators find in the journal? And then are you looking for any particular stuff for people to submit any. What? What sort, What can, What would you like to tell us about the journal?

Sean Nank: Yeah. Well, it is going to be a lot of work, but I I think the first thing is, I got a lot of. I got something choose to fill, because there's a couple of people Aaron and Paula, who Aaron just went off as the editor, and Paul is now the editor, and I'm. Her assistant until I become Editor. So it's like an evolutionary role. But they were just. They've been absolutely amazing. I can't stress how wonderful! And Csm has been and just welcoming me with open arms. Um, We're always looking for four different types of  journal articles. One of them is empirical case studies and lessons learned from math education, you know. Leadership positions. Uh, the second one is empirical Research report with implications for mass leaders. The third one is professional development efforts. Um, how they're situated in larger contexts. Um, leadership practices stuff like that. And the fourth one would be a program. Descriptions of leadership focused uh implementation of just different practices and math education, and we're always taking submission. And the other thing that's less uh publicized. But we really need an order to make this happen is, we need reviewers. So if you're interested in mixed methods, qualitative, quantitative reviewing, please reach out because we're always on the look up for good reviewers because they are really I couldn't do my job without them without their works, without their perspectives. Um! And we've had some really stellar reviewers. So if you're interested in that.

Dusty Jones: Let us know that's great. We'll. We'll link to that uh that website and the show notes as well, so people can do that. So It is a great journal. If you're looking for anything related to mathematics, education, leadership, you got all those different types of articles that you talked about, and then. Reviewing is always a great thing to do to get to know more about journal. So if you want to submit something, you have an idea of what the viewers are looking for while you're before you submit. That's great.

Sean Nank: Yeah. And there's also to like, reach out, because when in doubt there's sometimes we get articles where they don't quite fit the journal, but we have the Ncsm. Inspiration um and I'll. I'll be honest. I wrote an article for that called. You're muted about professional development. I'm. And I'm going around doing training for districts based on that article. So it's kind of a matter of Get Get your feet Wet start writing. You never know where it's gonna where it's gonna lead.

Dusty Jones: Sean. Do you have anything else to promote

Sean Nank: what we talked about already? I guess I kind of did, because I said I was doing Pd. On effective Pd. In in terms of Ncsm. Uh. We have a lot of different things coming up like coaching events coming up coaching corner first one. Well, if it it'll be dropped after, but it's going to be a series of a few different virtual meetings where we're gonna help coaches to coach better. And there's also other uh purposeful um ways that we're helping to promote and really foster new math leaders and new math coaches, because it's different the first and second year you're on that learning curve. Um. Also the networking nights are great. I think I want to be doing one in the next month or two, but the biggest thing, too, is volunteering, because I think I said it already. But there's these people are just absolutely amazing. In terms of me. I have a book that's coming out in the spring across my fingers soap on me. Yeah, It's a empathetic storytelling to critically challenge educational structures. So when me and a colleague uh checking Alaska pitch the book uh our pitch was. She's a straight white female. I'm: a straight white male. So we're not gonna fill up empathetic story. An empathetic storytelling book or a critical story telling book with our story. So we opened it up, and we have over twenty uh authors for over twenty uh chapters where they're gonnapurposefully tell their story in a really raw way, so that we can reflect on um stories underlying identity and belonging, carrying in relationships. Any of the is on some bullying

Dusty Jones: which i'll try to find information. It's hard to find a link to a book that's not out yet. We'll try to follow up, and maybe after it's out
re-edit those show notes and get that link in there. That'd be great.
 Well, thanks for joining us. Shawn This has been a great conversation. I'm really glad we finally been able to get this done. 

Sean Nank: Yeah, thanks for having me,

and thanks again to you all for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast, if you like what you hear, Please subscribe to the podcast, and we hope you're able to take action on something that you just heard and interact with other math teacher educators One also. Did you know that Amt has another podcast, a mathematics teacher, educator, Podcast, the Mte Podcast Company is the latest edition of the mathematics teacher, educator, journal, and has authors discuss the work they have submitted for a publication to the journal. You can find a link to the Mte podcast in the show notes for this episode.