0:00 Hello and thank you for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast. The teaching math teaching podcast is sponsored by the Association of mathematics teacher educators. The hosts are Eva fan hyzer, dusty Jones and me. I am Joel Amidon and today actually I'm flying solo because we have got a packed house in the Zoom Room today. Today we are talking with john Staley coordinator of special projects in Baltimore County Public Schools. Brian Lawler, associate professor of mathematics education at Kennesaw State University. bazel Conway, associate professor of mathematics education at Columbus State University, Robert berry professor of math education at University of Virginia and immediate past president nctm because they are the four lead authors of our teaching math teaching summer book club choice for July or as they laughingly call it the month of June because they had to talk to me so much. So we have been reading and discussing high school math, mathematics lessons to explore, understand and respond to social injustice every week on Facebook live throughout July, and wrapping up the month with this culminating podcast episode. Welcome, john bazel, Robert, and Brian, thank you for joining us. How are you all? 1:11 going? Great. Thanks for having us. antastic. 1:15 Oh, whoa, truly wonderful. 1:18 This is great. This is great. So you know, we have a lot to get through. So we're gonna just start chugging in, and we've got a few questions we're gonna go through. But again, this is always a great conversation. We've had a great conversation throughout the month. So this book, I'm curious about it, what, what's the story? Can you share a little bit about the history of this book? 1:38 Yeah, so probably, two, three years ago, I just really had that I'm basically people who can't hear our senior passion for just, you know, teaching math for empowerment, like, not just teaching math for mathematics sake, but dismantling in justices, empowering teachers and students, to use world to use the mathematics to change their world. And so that was really kind of the place where it started. And as I started, you know, I was thinking about all these great ideas, I was just overwhelmed trying to come up with lessons in these ideas. And then I realized that I couldn't do it alone. And so this is kind of my whole mindset of shifting and thinking, you know, what do I do this. And so then I sort of realized that I didn't have to stand alone. And so that's kind of where I started reaching out and looking for other people that could help me to began this huge journey of this development of the book. And so it kind of began with me connecting with john, Robert and Brian. And where we just started sharing these visions, these common visions we had. And then as we were doing realize that you know what, it doesn't just begin to start with us. But it begins and starts with the whole community of people who have the same passion is drawn to this idea of teaching math or social justice. And so that that was kind of the small background of where it got started from my in. To that, 3:05 yeah. So it is, is when we came together, one of the things that we we set up front, we knew up front of that we needed to get teachers and math educators to help contribute to be a part of this book. So inclusive in the lessons inclusive, their ideas being infused, throughout the chapters where we confuse them. But we knew we needed those out in the field those out in classrooms, those educating math teachers, to be a part of this book. So that was a big part of the upfront piece, when we sat down before but to start that initial thinking around making this book reality, 3:43 part of the history of getting started in the book, I'll share something that I find kind of, I'll just say funny looking back on it. Do you all remember our initial structure? So I know, one of the first things we recognized was that we definitely wanted to organize the book around mathematics topics first, because in most of our work with high school math teachers, that's just how they had to organize their planning, they had to ask themselves, okay, I'm picking up this unit on coordinate geometry, what what might I be able to do to teach the distance formula using a social justice context? So we explicitly decided to organize around the mathematics and we said, well, we should use the common chord, you know, because that's common. Not too long into that we quickly realized, well, the Common Core is not common. So we had to start thinking a little differently. But there was this other piece that I find the funny part, and that is common core. Correct me basically, you might remember the or anyone might remember the exact term but Common Core has like 52 standards across all their domains. It's like 52 if I remember right, bazel Do you remember our initial aim was to write one lesson for every one of the standards. 4:58 Yes. 5:00 So there were high aspirations of a 52 lesson book. And we want what ended up with a 22 lesson book that was almost twice the size of what our publisher initially agreed to put together for us. 5:16 Like that. That was the musician that wanted to do a an album about every state. And just I think he did like Illinois and good intentions. But not so good. Some good things. And I guess I have a question. And this is off our script, john and Robert, as to past presidents of organizations around you know, teaching math teachers and supervisors of mathematics and thinking about it. as, you know, past presidents like this must be in looking at all the different people that were involved in this that are involved in math education, this must be like, what you want, right? What you want to facilitate what you want to foster it to see these sorts of things happen, like, I don't know, as did you, like, ever step back from those perspectives and look at this project and be like, this is, this is a good thing, this is a really good thing. Well, 6:06 I mean, for me, I mean, this is has always been mean, central to the kind of work that I hope that would happen, not only in my work, but really, you know, getting the field to engage in in very significant ways. And so issues around social justice and equity access and empowerment. You know, I think we still have some ways to go in math. But I think, when I'm thankful for that we created this that can be, I would probably describe it as, as a point to begin to have these discussions. And that, and then and another point to create a framework or a structure where people can actually this can actually happen in classroom teaching. I think sometimes what happens is that, you know, teachers, I want to do this, but I don't know how to begin or what to do. And so I, I'm hoping that this is the kind of the framing for some of those ideas that teachers can begin to move forward on. They want to do it, but not yet don't know how to take that first step. And hopefully this book provides that first step. 7:14 And, Joel, to your point, when I was president of ncsm, part of my conversation was about where are we in our equity walk, where we as an organization, leading the work that helps support the teaching and learning of mathematics. And so this, one of the things I also recognize from that, and also from my role in Baltimore County Public Schools, is that when you have equity conversations, when you have conversations that are around race, we have conversations that bring in hot topics and hot issues, that you have to help people for tools, and have some tools to help them with some of the conversations. And so I look at this book as being a possible tool that people can have as they go about learning the process of being a social justice teacher about teaching math, for social justice, and fusing those topics in the classroom prorating that environment, that really does it. So it's all about what tools can we help teachers and those who build and develop and support and teach and teachers so that they can do this work? 8:17 Yeah, and I think I mean, just as a, I'm not a reviewer of the book, or it's not my name not written anywhere, but like as a as a testament of someone who's like, digested over the past month. I mean, it's like the orange juice concentrative of like, helping people out like doing this sort of work. I mean, it is so full of information and tools in order to do this work well. And I mean, because I, and I said in our weekly book chats like, this is a question that I had, how do you do this? How do you you see the work of folks that are written up in journals and things and you see, like, that's the thing I want to do, how do I get there? And this was like, this is like a blueprint. And so, again, it's great that it's been put together for us to digest, so I'm excited for people to get it in their hands. So speaking of the weekly book chats, what are some of the highlights? What are some of the things that bubbled up with with y'all in those chats? Either the ones you would participate in, or ones you viewed are the ones that are less than office? were part of what what what were some of the highlights? Were everyone's kick us off here? 9:22 I'm going to jump in because the highlight for me that the clear, clear highlight for me was, for the first time I got to meet six of our authors face to face 9:34 Zoom Zoom notwithstanding, but it was great to hear from them. And, man, each and every one of them probably should have been the lead lead authors on this book instead of us. It was just fantastic to hear sort of the deep insights and the Gosh, I mean, truthfully, extremely practical work that you know, they have implement, they have gone through an implementing the lessons in there. classroom so far and away, like I want to, I want to do more of this with every one of our authors somehow. 10:08 So let me piggyback off of that, since we're talking about the authors. It wasn't just about a lesson, or lesson that they were one lesson they were teaching in their classroom. It was about how they built and developed a classroom environment that had more of a social justice perspective to it a social justice framing underneath their classroom. So it wasn't just let me dump this topic into the classroom. It was about that was a part of their essence, I guess, I want to say, as they went about their teaching, their teaching process and what they did in their classrooms with their students, 10:41 I guess for me, I mean, I'm gonna say ditto to both for the comments and said, but for me, I think there's an appreciation for, you know, not only to Ofsted, but I mean, you know, these three gentlemen in terms of depth of knowledge, and, and, you know, the nuance that comes in how things kind of complement each other in a way that is building, you know, I think there's, there's this, there's always this kind of feeling of building together and building it and moving forward. So I appreciate that kind of interactions. In terms of moving forward, yeah, my 11:29 favorite part was definitely getting a chance to listen to the authors of these lessons. And the, where they came from the stories of those people that they didn't just originate out of some abstract space, whatever, but they were actually involved with these and, you know, listening to john talk about his prior work and with the students at risk students and prisons or, or what do you call it whenever students are in juvenile centers, right. And so, you know, and just being able to see that and understand that these are their stories behind these lessons and their stories behind in these people's interactions with with the lessons. And so that was my favorite part is just realizing that it wasn't abstract. These are real things that are really happening and real people that have these real stories, like in all this is real stuff. And that's kind of the power behind I think this teaching math or social justice is that there's, we're using mathematics for real, like, we're really doing math, this is real math, is that I guess that was kind of the part that I love so much is that I got to get the real feel of it. You know, remember, we were talking to Allison lamb, and she was where she was shipped talking about the visual. So I felt so bad about taking her lesson and applying it to Alabama. But really, that's what we got to think about doing right is to be able to take these lessons and think about our own context, not just, you know, pulling them out and using them exactly how they are. But how do we take these lessons and move them back to our own context, our own situations. And so that was kind of the huge value that I saw is that their experiences overlap so much with mine, and that, and that was what I just loved, just being able to chance to see and listen, Oh, I remember. Sabine talked about his a men's group. And so when he said that I was thinking about my men's group, and those situations that I have to balance and talk through. And so like, it was a chance for me to intersect my life with his and see that, wow, these things are so close. Like we have these, I'm having these same conversations that he probably is probably heading somewhere else in different parts of the country. And so anyway, that was my favorite part is the clap the collaborative environment. And 13:46 I think that that was the highlight for me was talking to the lesson authors and hearing the stories of these lessons and knowing that and like you said, You can't just you know, you have these lessons in the books as available for folks that want to do this, but also knowing that there is like, tentacles and roots into the places where these were written and things like just like Alison's perspective, like, you know, the want the perspective of Memphis not that far away of where she was writing these, the context that she was writing her lesson from, and knowing that that that lesson was written out of a care for her students and wanted to, you know, offer another narrative about what might be happening with regards to test scores and things like that. It's just an each of those each of those lessons and I think even Christina offered a story and talking about how a student had a difficulty in in in looking at the statistics and having different narratives and like how she's saying, hey, look at the mathematics around this and just how there is so much context and so much care for their students and that's why they're doing this work. And it's like you it's it's like a given you need to do that you need to have it on the background as what you have going into these, those roles. lationship the context of where you're doing this work, I think that just came out through and through. And also just what was fun about for me is just seeing the joy that you all had like a you done this work together and then seeing not only their joy of working with each other but yeah, when when people popped up on the on the zoom or the streaming or whatever you're doing for Facebook and like that you had first had a chance to meet and they had a chance to meet you it just the joy in that this is a human endeavor of doing this work together. So like I just, I really appreciated that. Anything else from from that any other highlights that bubbled up for you? 15:38 We've, um, it's always been extremely present in our mind that we were writing a book to help teachers think about bringing students interests, lives, concerns, questions about the world into the math class, something that we other people have called, but we also call teaching mathematics for social justice, yet the book title and the book seems to be organized around these 22 lessons and listening to the calls the Yeah, the weekly calls. It was very refreshing that that was clearly people understood that these lessons were sort of more that they were examples to help us all think about teaching mathematics in this way, where we're drawing upon student interests centering that real life contexts, being able to mathematize those contexts, I'm really owning Roberts word, he's put this word mathematize into my vocabulary. But yeah, that was a nice that I was really happy to see how strongly that was embraced, and even what basal was just saying, like the lessons are there for to stimulate ideas, really, none of us can take any one of these lessons exactly as is we have to use it as a model to build from our specific content. 16:57 This podcast is the teaching math teaching podcast. And so we're thinking about how you might use this book to either teach math teachers methods or content courses, like how might you use this? How might or how might you already use this work in doing that work of either teaching methods or teaching content courses, or professional development. Also, 17:21 I've learned that a context, it matters so much, you know, even when we think about our methods, courses, or where you might be using the lessons individually, but I work in a uteach model, which some people may be familiar with. And so our methods courses integrated with math, science and computer science. And so we naturally actually mesh these topics and ideas around one another all the time, and so on. This is a really, when we started the book that was kind of one of the back thoughts is that you know what I really want to use this my methods course to be able to demonstrate what it looks like to integrate mathematics with other disciplines in you know, around science, or around a social topic, or whatever it is, and so on. That that's kind of how I go about using the book is, and I use the lessons in the book, My plan is to continue to now actually have even more of a larger set to be able to model in the classroom. So they actually see how some of this may be facilitated in their own classrooms later on, or their own placements or wherever that's at and so, and we're able to talk about the ethical practices, and all those things that are aligned with what we have goals for the course, on top of putting social justice as a lens across it. So that's kind of the way we're using it in the uteach model. 18:41 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I mean, so you know, so I have not yet taught. So it's been a while since I've taught the course. But I've been I've given a lot of thought to this. And here's my thinking around these ideas. Because one of the things we're working with, whether I'm working with pre service teachers, or teachers who are thinking about how to integrate lessons or think about this lesson for them, professional development, I think the first four chapters provide a nice framework for having these discussions, and having discussions around that and understanding, you know, you just can't just jump in and teach the lesson. teaching the lessons is not, you know, kind of the end game, so to speak, you got to have all of those upfront types of conversation, those upfront types of knowledge base and knowledge building things are so important. And so for wanting to say, I'm just going to grab a lesson and teach them social justice lesson, I'd rather you not do that. I rather you not do that I would much rather for you to invest, make the investment and building the community and building the frameworks. And then once you have this framework in mind, the lessons then serve as a model to begin to think about because important What you might want to do is Matt, as always used to turn mathematize mathematize, some social justice issues that are close to the community in which you serve. And these lessons can provide some ideas, their idea generating, I'm not saying don't use the lessons, the lessons are idea generating types of lessons, you can use them, you might modify them for your needs, you all of those things come into play. So I'm saying invest in thinking about the know that, you know, the idea of what does social justice look like in mathematics? What are all those ideas that create critical math, you know, education, ideas around culturally relevant cultural responsive teaching, and pedagogy, the ideas around all of that. So Teaching Tolerance standards, those things have to be invested first, and then we kind of move into, so I'm thinking, I got to put some work in those first four chapters, then we use the life then we can begin to use the lessons to generate ideas. 21:07 Yeah, those first four chapters are just gold. I mean, I, for any, any methods are like, where you're justifying every single thing that you're doing and thinking about what you're aiming for with discourse. And so I mean, it's just go, alright, but you guys, there's more answers out there, Johnny, but say something. 21:24 Yeah, I was gonna say, coming from a district perspective school system perspective, we've often had opportunities to collaborate with our university partners. And one of the things I would would hope or look for is that they continue to help people we've heard work contexts come up. And many times, we've heard Robert just mentioned about taking these lessons as possible, seems to help kick you off, or when you get to that point. And so what I would want, those who are building and developing are teachers in a pre service or in service perspective, is to help them understand how to take lessons that they're given or lessons that they use, and really contextualize them for to use in their classroom, to make them real for their students. That's one thing, the above that, I would say that whole importance of building relationships. So people will talk about relationships, and we've heard the RS going across the years, but relationship is one that stands in this relationship for how do you gain understanding about their students? How do you learn about their cultures and their backgrounds and their lived experiences? And why is that powerful, so that you can help position your students in the math classroom so that you can help value their voice? And so I would, I would, you could, somebody who can do the math, you can teach them the different types of tattoos and how to use them lips, and that's one thing. But that piece about how to go about building developing relationships in the math classroom, and really valuing your students voice and hearing all students and pushing, positioning all students with a strengths based assets based perspective versus a deficit view, is something I think that the some of the groundwork you have to do before you even pop it social justice less than into your classroom. 23:16 JOHN, I would add to one thing I would add to that. So after you've gone through all of that, it don't end with the lesson. Yeah. With the lesson, now that you've had this experience, I think there's something there has to be some type of action that goes after experiencing the lesson. And and that is a significant part of you thinking about. So if you're committed to social justice and mathematics, it's just not the lesson is what happened after the lesson that engages in the idea of critical consciousness. And what actions are you going to take as a as a result of experience in the loss? 23:58 I continue to learn from my three colleagues. So now I know how to teach my methods classes better. However, let me share two things. One, one, maybe. Maybe both. The first one is very practical. It feels to me I want to tell you a little bit about what I have been doing specifically in my class for the past year and a half my methods classes and the other some insight I feel like I've recently getting Um, there's there's I have used early in the semester with my methods students. The lesson called listen to glisten. glisten is an acronym for the gay lesbian student. 24:37 Hmm. 24:37 I forget what e n N stands for. Joe, you're editing this right? You can fill that back in. I'm kidding. Um, but it's a wonderful lesson. For several reasons. I'll tell you just like some of the goals what it does for me. First and foremost, just getting into the lesson. It asks my Pre service teachers to learn what the two just consider the demographics of their local school context. through the lens of some of the survey data of the glisten survey, the annual school climate survey that glisten puts out and sort of really contextualize is that a sizable number of students in the classrooms that you regularly are involved in, do not feel safe in their schools for a variety of reasons. So first and foremost, I like that aspect of it. Second, the lesson is modeled around a guided reinvention of mathematics. Through the lesson students create a matrix multiplication process. So it just again, allows them to see that pedagogical process. But finally, and probably most important, is my students always walk away asking, Can I use this sort of thing in my school? Can I use this controversial topic in my math classroom? And it opens up that discussion about why about if you're going to do it, like what do you have to do? And again, like just echoing Roberts, John's comment, you have to build this this classroom climate first and foremost, you know, it creates that need. So I've used that lesson early for that create the need element of all those pieces. The insight I've had recently is I think many of us are familiar with a gear a Mayfield Ingram and Martin's identity book. Gosh, it's seven years old now. And I'm sorry, that's not the full title. Joel will put it in the notes of the podcast. But in there, they identify five equitable teaching practices. Thank you, john. It's called the impact of identity in K eight mathematics, they actually saved you that work. Um, so they identify five equitable teaching practices. And, Robert, I'm going to actually rely on you real quick. I think those are also discussed in catalyzing change in maps to the eight math teaching practices from 27:06 principles to act. It is also discussed in 27:08 catalyzing change, getting back to what I've been thinking about is, I've struggled to really fully implement ideas about culturally relevant pedagogy in my methods class. And that's probably in part because I don't maybe feel fully expert in it. But also in part, I hadn't figured out really how to connect it and making make it meaningful to my students. But in the past like year working with these gentlemen, it's become clear to me that those five equitable teaching practices are steeped in culturally relevant pedagogy, and they almost bring it to practice. And that's something I'm going to be using drawing upon this book, that our teaching for math for social justice model of the five, the arrow with the five components, I feel like this is I now know how to speak about culturally relevant pedagogy much more effectively, drawing upon the book as examples for those five equitable teaching practices, hopefully, fingers crossed, asked me in December, how it went. 28:08 I think the one thing I mean, that just is becoming abundantly clear with these conversations is, you know, how would you use this book? I mean, it seems like the conversations, right, the conversate, the professional conversations that can happen around it just that we've maybe modeled throughout this month, but just the, the fact that, you know, this whole thing started with, you know, bazel thing and like, you know, what, I could I want to do this, but I can't do it alone. And that's, I think, that essence to take it with and seeing like, how do we do this, I need to involve my colleagues, I need to involve my students, I need to involve my administration, my, my community, and it just seems like from just at a foundational level, like that's some place, at least, you know, to start with, wherever you're going to be doing this sort of work is that we're starting doing it together and thinking about it. And just laying that foundation out. Any anything, anything else for this? Next question is kind of redundant with the last question, but you already put a bunch of golden nuggets out there with that first question. But let's see. Do you have any tips for working with teachers using the book anything else out there that maybe we haven't said? I'm going to jump in because I 29:20 get a couple that 29:20 come to mind and I can preempt, if anybody else says them before I do. Nice. First, first immediate to that come to mind is collaborate with teaching partners with teaching partners in particular, have allies a network of support of idea generation, all that and the second is another collaborate question. It's collaborate with your communities and your students to learn from them. Learn from them about their knowledge about the context, learn from them about their questions, their concerns about the context. Learn from them how they think. even liked that topic to be present in the schools. But I think both those connections to other people are key for success. 30:10 One of the tips I would put out there is chapter one is like a, let me learn about the frameworks that help support teaching math and social justice. So I would say if you're not familiar with them, pick one to read about, we've we've put references in there that will help people in that go down that path. But that's something where I would, I would step back, and I would spend some time over there, I'm not getting paralysis of analysis and thinking that I've got to get it perfect. But in some cases, I'm not doing because I just don't know what it is I'm not doing. So you might want to pick up one of those books to join a book study. And start off, you know, an easy, I'd say need to want to start off, which I'm hoping most people have already read or delving into is the nctm principles, the action book. So maybe you start off there, and you really spend some time in some of those chapters. And then you go to the next one, to learn about another framework to help you really understand what this work is about teaching math for social justice, and how you know how, what you're doing is more than just a lesson teaching a lesson, 31:17 I think about my own development, and response. And I think about these guys I've worked with here, and their ability to be open, for us to be open to share our beliefs or thoughts and to not be judgmental, and to to work and to be patient. I think that this is a huge part of working with teachers is sharing, you know, where we're still developing our own identity and we're in, and that we may not have everything right. And but there may be some things that we feel really strongly about, I know whatever these things are, but being responsive to that, to that we stand in equity, we stand in fairness, we stand for people, the dignity of life for all people, right. And so this is, um, this is tough work. I think I just, I really believe we should be really careful and give people time. We don't change the world in one day. We don't change that. I mean, as much as I want things to change, but we've got to be provocative, we've got to challenge some spaces, right, that need to be challenged. And so to do that, with an openness for change over time, but we expected to change but just didn't happen in one day. So I think that's some recommendation, I would think is to be that way with yourself as well. I think that before we do these lessons before you go this way, you got to think about your own beliefs, your own thoughts, because those things are going to make you show your face. Those are going to be who you call on during the class that these little things that are kind of what Robert was getting at earlier is like the foundation, you've got to think through this stuff before you do a social justice lesson, you've got to think through the step before you talk about it and methods force all these ideas and be open and willing to change over time. 33:14 So I would add a couple of things. So one thing that comes to my mind so I know in some some spaces teaching mathematical social justice is a risk is risk taking. And it might require that you engage in what we share. Gutierrez talked about creative insubordination. And, and that is okay, you know, in the sense that, you know, you're taking a risk, and I often say get into that participations a risk taking event. And when I say participation is mistaking event What I mean by that is, is is no if, if if you committed to this work, but you don't know what yet to do. The book is the first step, it provides some frameworks for moving forward. And and this is the kind of the thing that kind of move you forward. And then when you're ready to engage or how you choose to engage, you know, part of it might be just building the knowledge base you need first so that you can develop the kind of the risk factors that you want to to engage deeply with your class only with your teammates with other teachers. And that is okay. Other people may be very further along and say, You know what, it's time I'm kicking the door and we're going all in and that is okay, too. So I think we have to be respectful for places where people might be as john would describe it in their, in their equity walk, and and people are in different spaces. 34:56 So it gets me thinking from my own perspective of wanted to use this with my teachers and like that idea of how do I show care for my students? How do I love my students? I like to think about teaching math as a god but your unconditional love and thinking about if I'm in that walk, I'm thinking about how am I going to do that. And now you provide me with these frameworks and thinking about the social justice standards and thinking about doing good mathematics and make sure voices are heard have an asset based perspective, like this is all towards that aim of how can I love my students best and I think it when we're getting to know our students and who they are, and using mathematics in order to help them understand their world around them a little bit better, and then they're going to see some, some injustice is going to be lifted up bubbled up to the serving, like Okay, so now what how do we go even further with it, and to think about how to explore, understand and respond to it. And I think, again, you'll, y'all came up with something good. And so I'm just excited to that people are getting a chance to engage with it and excited for this podcast to get out there. So you can hear somebody else's perspective on it. So we appreciate it. Oh, what's that? 36:04 I saw what you did you use our title? 36:07 That's it. 36:12 I've been saying that so much that this last month, but I mean, I love if someone wants to, hey, what do you do? What are you doing this book? Well, hey, read the title. And that's, that's what we're gonna be. 36:22 You know, everything's there. Everyone, 36:24 everything has a reason. So, um, so that gets us to our final question where we have a Hey, is there anything to promote out there? Besides the purchase of this book, which I'll say I'll I won't make you all do it. You can still get at Corwin in July for I believe, 30% off. I think if you use the code, I believe 3430 at checkout, and there's still free shipping. So that's a great thing. Oh, and through, is it through August bazel? Is that we're saying? through August? Yes. All right. So keep, keep going. You can get that that's special for a while. So if you're looking for something for methods, closers, looking for something for your own teaching, whatever this is, this is a great resource out there anything else to promote? wants to take this one? 37:10 All right. 37:13 Oh, I really, I'm really happy to announce that Corwin, our publisher, one of our two publishers, nctm, is a co publisher has agreed to publish three more books, one at each of the younger grade bands, 6835. And pre k two, there are author teams already in the works already in motion. And there are calls out for lessons. So for everybody listening to the podcast, please reach out to teachers that you know, who have been thinking about or have been doing lessons grounded in context of social and justices in whatever grade classroom pre kindergarten through eighth grade. 38:05 There'll be links to all those different calls, we'll put those in the show notes as well. And I think this is a great way we talked about at the end, we'll say these words in a fit about engaging with others, and around the interacting with others around this content. I mean, this is what a great What a great excuse to get together and think about the ideas within the book, the ideas of teaching math, for social justice, thinking about maybe bringing in colleagues who maybe need some exposure to some of these ideas. I mean, what a great way to start those conversations. And so I know that's a that's very exciting that those books are coming out and very exciting for opportunities for folks to do what you all did and get together and and talk about doing this work. So thank you. Thank you for for a great month. Thank you for spending a lot of time talking with me. That's that. That's I'm very appreciative that and I'll maybe have to pay you back for all that interaction. But really appreciate all your all your time. So thank you. Thank you, folks. 39:03 Thank you for having this. Yeah. 39:07 So thanks again for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast, we hope that you are able to implement something that you just heard and take an opportunity to interact with other math teacher educators.