Dusty Jones: hello, and thank you for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast the teaching math teaching podcast is sponsored by the Association of mathematics teacher educators. A community of math teacher educators learning to teach math teachers better. i'm your host dusty Jones and today we're talking with temple while Kodak who is an associate professor of mathematics education at North Carolina State University. we're talking to temple because she has been a driving force, a key person in the AMT Community circles which we're going to talk about later on in this episode. temple welcome, how are you doing.

Temple Walkowiak: i'm doing well, thank you and I appreciate you and inviting me to join you today nice to be here.

Dusty Jones: Great thanks, can you just tell us a little bit more about yourself just as an introduction.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah so as you as you stated i'm an associate professor of mathematics education at nc State University and I focus on mathematics and elementary grades in my position there. I work in the undergraduate teacher preparation program preparing. Future elementary teachers mainly focus at my primary focus with that group has been on the upper elementary grades, but also work with practicing teachers in our mvp program so. Teachers that are coming back to graduate school to hopefully become an elementary math coach. You know, hopefully find one of those positions, but basically they're developing expertise in elementary mathematics and pedagogy. And then, finally, I have doctoral students and most of my doctoral students also are interested in mathematics and elementary grades, I have a few that. are interested in middle school, but I work in the doctoral program mentoring and advising as well, and then obviously i'm also engaged in research and active. That has primarily focused on teacher development side, especially for development among novice teachers if they transition from the pre service years into the early years of teaching, but then a big part of my work has really been on. observational instruments and collecting evidence the validity and reliability of those instruments said, and I can say more about that if you'd like me to, but I know that we're here to talk about paintings.

Dusty Jones: But before we do that, since you kind of tell us about your present I want to take us back to the past, a little bit, and can you tell us how did you start teaching math teachers and why did you do that.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah so I. I when I was, I was an undergraduate I was. A teacher candidate pre service teacher and I after finishing college, I worked at the sixth grade math teacher. And as a part of that work, I decided that I was interested in hopefully becoming a math coach so I went back to the University of Virginia for some additional coursework to become licensed to the K eight math specialist I worked as a. As a MAC specialist for three years prior to then work and actually worked as an assistant principal people are always surprised to hear that about me, but I wanted to really impact. Teaching more broadly, and so I worked as an assistant principal for a year, and that was the year that I was like temple if you want to. You know, work with practicing teachers and pre service, then you probably need to get a PhD so that you can work at a university, you know, and so, and you know just the assistant principal route I just realized that that wasn't the route that I needed to take. So I went back, I actually went to the University of Virginia for my PhD and then, when I finished there I came to nc state so that's that path. And it's been a fun one like I you know i've been really blessed to have enjoyed. You know where i've been and all of the people i've so many people to think, who have shaped me as a professional yeah.

Dusty Jones: that's great it's it's always neat to hear the different ways that people get to. Not that not that we're all math teacher educators, doing the same thing, but the different ways people get there, so I like to hear your route through you know from the classroom teacher working towards being a coach and then assistant principal you know it's kind of a surprise. You know not not everybody does that so that's great that you bring all those experiences to bear and and, as you help your your teacher candidates trying to navigate those things i'm sure you have some some words of wisdom of you know that you could give them.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah and and you know i'm you know, while this I realized that the assistant principal route wasn't the route that I wanted to take I learned so much that year that has really informed you know my work going forward yeah.

Dusty Jones: So what are what are some things, or what maybe what's the best advice that you received when you started teaching math teachers.

Temple Walkowiak: I think the best advice that I received was to get to know, whatever group, it is that i'm working with really well not only. Their in terms of their professional needs, but also them as people. And really valuing the experiences that they bring to whatever the experiences, whether that's the university course or whether that's a professional development, setting in a school. that's really you know to first really understand. What their needs are now what i've come to learn is that there tends to be some commonalities and needs across the different populations in which I work right like so now that i've undergraduates for 12 years like. You know, like there's definitely commonalities there's always some iniquities in terms of like what they need. It then also just really trying to understand them and their experiences and what they bring to the classroom because we know, everybody has strengths, I think that was the best advice that I got.

Dusty Jones: yeah that's great. What sort of advice would you give to someone who was starting out in in this role now.

Temple Walkowiak: So you know my I I have said this repeatedly and recently i've been you know saying this with colleagues as we reflect on like the past semester um. I have learned, and this is something I did not know starting like when I first started like at nc state, for example. I have learned the importance of being explicit with whatever group that i'm working with, and what I mean by that is say that you do some sort of task or activity in some sort of learning setting whether again whether that's a course or professional development, setting. Initial early on the first few years, I think I made assumptions and bird with they were pulling from those activities and tasks and then I learn based upon like. Something maybe they submitted at the end of the Semester or something I observed in a classroom that they have not taken what I had intended them to take in order to to to obtain, so to speak, and so I. You know, while I still want them to make sense of the math and have opportunities to practice i've also learned that like on the back end of whatever that we do that it's just really important to also be. Really explicit with my own goals and then really explicit and wrapping up in the end, and I know that sounds. It sounds it might sound silly in some ways, but it's just has been a really big Aha for me in terms of like as I reflect on my practice is a math teacher educator and being more effective with whatever population that i'm working with.


Dusty Jones: yeah that's great that's great advice, knowing knowing your audience is one thing that. Some people have told me, you know you got to know those but not just not just who they are in the like you said in the professional role or or you know the the student role but know who they are, you know get to know those people, and what those are. I was at the grocery store this weekend and somebody said, Mr Jones Mr Jones and I looked up, and it was a teacher that had we had done professional development. And our project ended just right before everything shut down for covert it was like well time, do you know that we were wrapping things up. In February of 2020 and she was like hey we're all getting that getting together, could you want to you want to come and have dinner with us, and I was like wow I must have made some good connections with these people, you know level instead of. yeah so that's that's really cool.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah and then based upon those needs, like figuring out like So what are the goals and making goals and I guess that's what has. No in their needs, but then making the goals explicit based on those names and I feel like that's the connections between those two things that I shared with you.

Dusty Jones: And then they know with those goals being explicit, then the people to participants people you're working with on your team know, everybody knows where you're headed.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah.

Dusty Jones: that's really helpful. Instead of what are we doing what's going on.

Temple Walkowiak: Right right.

Dusty Jones: So one of the things I guess connected to this is the AMT Community circles so, can you tell me a little bit about them, I guess, or maybe a lot about them, why were they form what's what what's the purpose of the AMT Community circles.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah so. So in September of 2019 an AMT membership task force was formed, and this was for a directive from the board to form a task force to really analyze evaluate. You know, identify strengths and weaknesses as it relates to Member benefits. Membership in general, like ways that we might expand membership. Member. With that related to expanding membership would be. Who knows about AMT right like to do people at all institutions even know because we realized that like that it may be dependent upon like. Through your network with as you're not die empty so so that was why the membership task force was formed. And so the membership Task Force worked for about a year from September of 2019 to Sep tember 2020. And then we produced a report to the board with some recommendations and I want to talk a little bit more about the work that the tests were done so, in addition to having meetings month regular meetings. You know, with when we had a variety of representation across the task force, we also conducted a survey of AMT members. To get feedback and their perspectives on all of these things right on benefits and ways that we can expand membership and so forth, and so one thing that came out of that was. Trying to develop another mechanism for for Members to feel a sense of belonging. um because, for example, when some people come to the conference you know I think about myself i've been a member of a empty for quite a long time now, and so I know so many people right like. But say i'm a first time attendee or there's no one else there for my institution or whatever it may be, in terms of the conference like trying to figure out a way for people to get connected another thing that came out of that membership. That the survey that the membership Task Force conducted was that the you know that. conference attendance is not i'm not possible for everyone for variety of reasons, right, I mean one of them being the expenses associated with traveling to the conference. And so we were again trying to think about other ways for people to connect. and beyond, and I know that AMT has wonderful resources, like the webinars right, but more like something that I can come to income to regularly so that I feel the sense of community yeah so that's how they were born. So it's just and then so, then what happened between you know after the board received the report and then. We were moving into the February 2021 conference which was all virtual so it was kind of like the moment is right. Right. To introduce Community circles, because we were trying to the conference Committee was trying to think about ways for people to feel connected. You know, because we're not going to be having conversations in the hallways of the conference Center right and so at the AMT 2021 conference that's when Community circles for lunch and how we determine what the circles were was based upon feedback from them membership. That, again with came out of a survey so at that 2021 conference we had 16 Community circles. You know, some of them some of those Community circles met. Twice like because even had a conference that year with spread out. Like in two weeks. Right there's some of them that. You know both weeks, and then, some of them only met one week it was really up to the facilitators and the people that attended. And so what came of that was. Some of them were more well attended than others right, but they were all I mean it was definitely a productive. On you know, on the conference feedback form that year there was positive feedback about the Community circle, I think the hardest thing was for people to choose which one to attend and because of being in that virtual space we did have. Community circles, at the same time right like we were did up in the evening and they all ran at the same time, so if I wanted to go to chick there were eight at this during the first hour and then eight during the second hour, but if there were two on the same list. That I wanted to go to I couldn't get it. So then, so that was feedback that would receive so then from there, as we moved into the this academic year 2021 22. I gathered feedback from the facilitators of the circles, based upon like whether people thought they wanted to put a pause on the circle, or whether like which is you know, and also the board had discussions like about like. Making sure we're not having too many running at once, but ones that may be a you know meet some needs members of the organization. ones that we know that we have facilitated facilitators that when I continue right, so we made the decision. To just start small for this year for this idea of year long Community circles and we had six Community circles that ran your along this year, and they met at least four times, I think that some circles may have met more, and so the, but what we do when they need is our. Act, send out an email to the facilitators to ask them to sign up for a time, so we make sure that no two circles are meeting at ideally, not on the same day and not at the same time, so that people can attend, more than one sure yeah yeah That was a long spiel but.

Dusty Jones: Well that's that's great I mean it's it's good information so. started with 16. I remember, I remember being interested in more than three and so that was you know their pigeonhole problem. yeah I can't go to all of these things. yeah but it's it's been really great and i've been tangentially involved in in one throughout the this this current year and it's been great who who are Community circles for who should join a Community circle.

Temple Walkowiak: Any AMT Member. enjoy that said it's a benefit for the membership and any AMT Member should join a Community circle, but I also want to say that joining the Community circle. You can join you can be a member of you can get all six Community circles that exists currently i'll talk more about next year in just a little bit, but you can you also don't have to attend every meeting you can come when you want to come, you know you could go to the. empties who are the so empty it there, your own institution, one one me at one point, and then go to the anti racist teaching practices to take Community circle and another point so there's no. Commitment right and another thing that's different about this is um you know when we were talking we said, one thing that we. We didn't want to say that these were working groups like like, for example, if you those people that have been to me and a me and I was working groups. That the really the purpose of these Community circles and to build community and it's Member driven such that what happens inside those circles and where they go nuts, it turns into working groups around products and that's great, but that there's no expectation that that happens yeah.

Dusty Jones: So, can you tell you kind of tease this a little bit so tell me what we can expect in the future for articles.

Temple Walkowiak: So um so what what's going to happen in the so this this year again, like the the virtual conference was the launch right like testing it out and then. This was our test of this year long Community circle idea and just to have a subset of those running your long so six of them and so now. You know, we firmly believe that this should be Member driven and that if a Members want to form a community circle around a topic, or you know anything a characteristic that they can. And so what's happening currently. In the an email came from sherry siqueira the executive director and we'll make sure another email goes out as well with a call that you can submit a proposal. And I say proposal, maybe just to say that we use the word propose to have a Community circle, because our intent and again if you're interested in having a Community circle. That you should be able to have a Community circle that you form, so what has to happen if you just need at least 3am TEAM members who are interested in committed to participating in the circle just three to get started and. And then you would meet throughout I mean again the expectation is to meet like are approximate timeline it's like once in September once in December February affiliated with the conference, although we make sure that we also allow people to. have been able to join virtually especially this past year I don't we don't know what that will look like in 2023 and then and then again at the end of the academic year. And you know i've had one circle that has asked, can they meet more frequently than that, and I think the answer is yes, we just need to what i'm working on with, I have a new membership committee which is really nice working on with that committee is. The way to streamline that so that so that we could people can meet if they meet Additionally, we just want to make sure that the membership knows that people are fading you know more frequently yeah so that's. that's what you can do. You have an idea yeah.

Dusty Jones: that's that's wonderful i've been involved with like I said tangentially with the statistics education circle and that's been really helpful and I. If they're listening to this they're like you haven't been involved, but I have been involved as much as I can be, I guess, right now, and so that's been that's been exciting to. be able to have that group of people that we share interest in, and I have other interests and so there's other Community circles that.have gone on this year that I thought i'd like to be involved in that, but different responsibilities or, I guess, I can i'm not here to make excuses I just didn't participate in them. But so, are there any that are currently existing that are going to keep going for the next year, or is it like a fresh, can you can you list for our listeners what Community circles are out there.

Temple Walkowiak: Yes, so and I yeah I love to also i'll list them, and you know, and then I also would love to share some.Some anecdotal story later they've shared.So the current one that will continue. empties who are so empty at our institution LGBT Q plus inclusion in mathematics education. The statistics education, when that you mentioned they're actually going to change their their name to statistics and data science. teacher education, because travis while and the facilitator shared with me that a lot of the conversations have have also included data science and so they feel like that the name change would be more representative of what they're doing and that Community circle. The anti racist teaching practices and mathematics education circle will continue. The empty ease of color will continue i'm not sure we possibly may have some facilitator changes and some of the circles i'm. It because, not because, just to like really people if somebody wants to facilitate and episode hater is only really to just like get people start it it's not i'm actually trained in the name of that to be like the point of contact. You know.provide the zoom link get people together and then. talk. You know, and then the early career empties, which also includes graduate students. that's so all i'm I anticipate continuing potential on a couple of them that there may be a you know, a change in the point of contact, but so that they're going really well, I mean, I had a couple of people say. I think one person said that they came to the conference in 2022 because of the Community circles right like.wow yeah because they felt connected um and then I you know, one of the kyle whipple, who is the facilitator for the LGBT Q Plus, he said that uh you know that one of his participants said that. They participate in the group because of the Community, and that it connects me too I think they're doing exactly we wouldn't want them to do. and kyle also shared a quote with me that i'm going to read that the circle has been one of. His favorite things about belonging to a empty having a group of people to meet with a few times a year, who share similar experiences and have similar reactions to the political landscape, we live in, has been really beneficial. And he gave me permission to share that and so you know, I think that in fact that circle. One thing that they hope to do in the next year is they want to create a document of language that AMT could refer to. When writing letters of response to the passing of laws that discriminated against the LGBT Q plus Community so some I think some really you know. Again, because even though the focus is is to build community in our organization and among mathematics teacher educators, I think the other really good work coming out of it.So the soul and another example of some things as a soul empty group. That Diana Sherman and TIM Hendrick, to the Co facilitators of that group and they've shared that it really has allowed. People who don't have other empties of their institution to discuss and engage with problems of practice and. And and and actually problems of practice it so empty space, because they are the sole empty he. has given them that network and that they shared you know they've created a contact list that includes email and phone number and department him, and in fact they're making professional connections. Research around research collaborations and teaching support so it's really exciting to hear the things that are happening um. yeah I mean I have other examples, but i'll pause.

Dusty Jones: that's great well those two examples I mean we're building community and but the outcomes and the goals, I guess, to tie this back to earlier. might be different for different communities circles, but all of these sorts of things are welcome welcome products, you know welcome buy products, maybe or comes from from having these communities circles that's great are there, others that you wanted to share.

Temple Walkowiak: What yeah I think um yeah there are and. The One of them relates to it was from the anti racist teaching, practice group and that circle Joel amidon sent me an email. That you know it's really have allowed everybody, including the facility like everybody's a learner in these circles, and so I want to point that out and they've had some really good learning around like. Pushing moving themselves forward individually as a professional, but then collectively as a group of empty as it relates reflecting on the teaching practices that we're using in our in our work of them to eat. At you know anti racist teaching practices, and so, but the reason I want to also highlight that is because I want people to understand that. The point of contact So if you submit a proposal by June 15 as a point of contact I i've been using the word facilitator here, but it really is. That group kind of drives it, you know people have told me they come together and. You know that the person at the point of contact might have an initial question right, but it really turns into a group conversation and a group decision about like what you talk about and what you were you know if you wanted to work on something um. But um I say that because I think that. The facilitators haven't reported that it's been a huge because I know we're all really busy. I don't think it's been a huge. You know strain on their time and, in fact, like that quote from kyle as the facilitator, you know it's not it a really, really worthwhile endeavor so.

Dusty Jones: that's great.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah I mean, and then you know the early career one more example would be from the early career. The early career and empty group that also includes graduate students they've been really they've been able to leverage the fact that they have doctoral students in the two people that are about to enter you know and. You know into their career, possibly in academia I don't want to make it sound like that that's the only option, because it's not right. But regardless like that they've they've really been able to leverage the early career empties offering advice to the doctoral students around finishing your dissertation right like prom habits around writing and things like that so that's some of what they shared about. Just one of the things.

Dusty Jones: that's a really productive from their Community circle. that's wonderful that's, these are all great things i'm excited to see what. You know where these existing ones go that you listed the six that have gone on this year and then also for people who might you know they have three colleagues that. Two or three colleagues that are interested in the same sort of thing let's let's put let's put one of us down to the point of contact and and send in this thing to AMT you you kind of you say you want to avoid calling it a call for proposals because. AMT is not trying to act like a gatekeeper necessarily and say, these are going to these are going to go, and these are not just trying to be able to. Let all of our Members once something is a Community circle, then all members of AMT know about it, or have have access to knowing here are the here are the Community circles for this next year, if you want to get involved here's here's where you go for that so. yeah that information is going to be I guess listed on AMT website, maybe sent out to an emails to to Members and things like that about how to get involved yeah.

Temple Walkowiak: Yes, yes and and what you just said, made me think of something that travis from the statistics and data science teacher education i'm going to use their new name.Community circle shared that like that there were there were pairs of people pairs or tree, is that the people working together, and this has brought all of those people together around the same interests, you know and you'd be in one of those so yeah so so. You just exactly what you just said right i'm only talking to two or three people hey now I could talk to 10 people you know and that and just that's another thing is that it's typically I think typically attendance is somewhere between 10 and 20. Sometimes lower right but typically that's been you know so it's a nice and you know I think people have your breakout rooms that they want to pick out and bigger and smaller groups yeah.

Dusty Jones: yeah that's great thanks temple for for telling us about these for your work in helping I guess get these Community circles off the ground and we're excited to see where where they go next and the different different wonderful things that come out of that. One of the things we like to ask our guests is. To think about just advice for.Like you mentioned we're all busy we've all got stuff going on, so what, what is your what What do you do, how do you get things done, what are some of your practices that you found worked for you to accomplish the many, many tasks that have to get done.

Temple Walkowiak: You know, I think that I probably have three pieces of advice related to the. I block off time on my calendar for particular task, for example, that that for noon I blocked off a three hour chunk. For tasks that I need to work on, so that I don't schedule something else, and it also holds me accountable, because I get the notification okay it's time to start working on that task that's The one thing. The second thing is, when I have been the most productive with writing. has been when I have and I don't and I, and I will admit that i'm not consistent with this different periods of my life i'll have periods, meaning like when I look back over the last five years there's been periods, where i'm. consistent about having a daily writing habit right and like writing for one hour in the morning.And i'm most productive when I do that, but there, but there are times that i'm don't do that and then i'm least i'm less productive, because what happens is that step away, and then I have to get my head back in it, you know all over again. And then I think the third piece of advice is also to. everything's not going to get done. Meaning like you know you're going to you know you're never going to get everything it's going to get done at some point, but do you follow me like.

Dusty Jones: uh huh yeah.

Temple Walkowiak: they're constantly having to get re prioritize and you know I think with practice you learn on what things can wait a little bit. yeah and what are they like the most important things for today yeah first is what could wait until two weeks from now. I don't I wouldn't call myself a master at that. You know I try to remind myself of that are especially when it comes as it relates to like work life balance and really trying to close things down, you know. And not working, all the time.

Dusty Jones: Right yeah someone asked me something about a position in in my department and like how much time does it take, and I said it'll take as much time as you give it.

Temple Walkowiak: Like you can. It can really do.

Dusty Jones: yeah so those those are helpful and I appreciate.You know you saying, like some of these things like having a daily right writing habit is is helpful but it's not something that you achieve all the time, every time you know. Every day, so that's that's helpful to know as well.

Temple Walkowiak: yeah giving yourself some grace to ride around you know and again keeping a work life balance, I think it's so important sure sure.

Dusty Jones: The Community circles is one reason why we asked you to come on and talk about that so we've been we've been talking about that we've been promoting the. Those call for proposals call for new Community circles. Do June 15 is what a current deadline anything else, that you have to promote that you've been working on or is it's come out or you want to say hey check check this out.

Temple Walkowiak: The work that i'm really engaged in right now, so I would encourage people to keep an eye out for the work that comes out of this project is. The project that I have with my colleagues joni Wilson, and any Wilhelm and Annie is it southern Methodist university, but we are and joni is the P, I have this project, but we have been working on. collecting evidence of validity for a set of classroom observational rubrics that Germany is the lead developer of. And we have been working on collecting evidence of validity yeah reliability and. That is a part of that work, I mean i'm engaged because of my background, and you know i'm late co developer of the mathematics scan scan. Which is another classroom observational instrument, and so the works has been really exciting too, because what you know we're still we're still building our data. Like are collecting our data and then ultimately will be looking at relationships between. So the while it's focused on collecting evidence of validity part of that is looking at relationships between these different observational measures and relationships, the student outcomes and relationships to teacher.characteristics. and so forth between the set of equitable mathematics teaching practices, so I would just encourage people to keep their ads out. That work with that project is called project and beer me and the names of those rubrics is the equity and rubrics for mathematics instruction that rubrics are called ear me, and so, you know as we move forward. that's what i'm working on right now and that we have some things you know forthcoming.

Dusty Jones: Great great that's so exciting well Thank you so much for joining us temple it's it's been it's been wonderful and I look forward to seeing what comes next from the Community circles and from from these projects that you've mentioned.

Temple Walkowiak: Thank you it's been great to be here yeah.

Dusty Jones: And thanks again to you the listeners for listening to the teaching math teaching podcast, if you like, what you hear please subscribe to the podcast we hope you're able to. Take action on something you just heard, maybe get some friends together and propose something for a empty and interact that maybe through the Community circles with other math teacher educators.
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