Board Games and Buddhism === Daniel: [00:00:00] A Conversation with Takuya OSA about Buddhism and board games on this episode of Board Game Faith, the biweekly podcast, exploring the intersection of board games, spirituality, and religion. Daniel: My name is Daniel Hilty. Kevin: And my name is Kevin. Ono: and I'm Takuya Ono from Japan. Kevin: Yay! Daniel: Welcome, Welcome Takuya. We are so grateful to have you here with us today. We you are. Um, it is where you are. It is, um, the morning, right? It is Ono: It is morning. Yeah. About nine o'clock. Daniel: Nine o'clock. Okay. Okay. We, It is still, it is still evening here. The day is coming to an end, but I'm, it [00:01:00] makes me happy and hopeful to know that the world is ha is beginning a new day somewhere else, somewhere in Japan. That's great. Well, we are very grateful to have Ono-san joining us today for a very special episode. And oh, Ono-san, if you wouldn't mind, please just just telling us a little bit about yourself. please. Wh Where are you where are you from and what your life has, has been like, Ono: . Yes. So I prepared some sentences for, to introduce myself. So I must begin with particular circumstances of Japanese Buddhism. Japanese Buddhism is an extremely secularized, uh, a Buddhist monk. Traditionally used to abandon their family and house and couldn't have families. However, Japanese monks have been able to marry and have families since the Meiji Periodo Meiji periodo[00:02:00] from 1868. Yeah. Before that time it was controlled by Shogunate but the Meiji government's modernization policy liberalize it. Therefore, my family has lived in a temple since my great-grandfather's generation. And I was also raised in a temple . Therefore, I'm from the temple where I'm live now. Since, yes, since my father didn't succeed, my grandfather as a temple master, I became the temple master when I was 24 years old after my grandfather passed away. A few raise years later, I got married. and my family lives also in the temple. Yeah, that's a sit my situation . Daniel: Thank you very much. That's so interesting. What is it like to live in the same [00:03:00] place where you work? Where, where, what is it like to spend all of your time in the, same place like that and where your family has. been for generations? Ono: Um, I don't use, uh, what you imagine the temple, but the temple, uh, is a, a like old building. Yes. And next to the old building, uh, I will live. Daniel: Okay. Okay. Okay. So so you're, you get to, to to go to the other building. at, at, in the Evening when to sleep and to to be with your family. And then you go next, you go to the other building for the temple? Okay, Okay. Okay, great. Kevin, I know you had, you had, expressed a special interest in, in what the role of the temple Master involved. Is that right, Kevin? You were, You were. wondering Kevin: Right, right. So what is, yeah. so what are some of your duties? What do you do at the temple? Ono: Every morning [00:04:00] I offer food and water to the Buddha. Worship and chanting sutras a Buddhist scriptures. When, uh, parishioner, uh, you know, parishioner. Parishioner dies. I conducted the funeral ceremony like today from now followed by Memorial Services on seventh day after death, also 46 day, the first anniversary, the second anniversary up to up to the hundreds anniversary. So, in addition, uh, some priests work as teachers or company employees. I teach at the junior college, uh, preaching at lectures, light article for [00:05:00] newspaper magazines, many on board games, and teach board games at elementary schools. When I'm not working. I spend my free time sitting in front of my computer collecting information on board games and and translating a boardgame rule books mainly from German into Japanese, Japanese, the, uh, building blocks of tabletop games, des design, you know, a book. Ono: Was, yeah. Was translated and published at the time when I was very out and about in the Okuma disaster. Yeah. That's my duty and half my hobby. Yes. Daniel: It, It's, it's very good when duties and hobbies can, can come together. . that's Ono: together. Daniel: a good thing. Ono: Exactly. Kevin: you know, Japanese, german, [00:06:00] and English. That's amazing. Ono: Yes. Yes. "Ich spracher Deutsch." Kevin: What is board game culture like in Japan? Are there cafes, stores? How many people are playing? Ono: yes. Japanese sporting and climate, uh, spreading, uh, fast. Let's you know, uh, at East Japan, uh, earthquake disaster, in 2011. Yeah. Uh, the atomic, uh, power grid has an acc, had an accident, and we, uh, couldn't, uh, go out, uh, from, uh, house and, and the, uh, power, uh, electric power, the shut down. And so we must stay home at that. Uh, that is, uh, 12 [00:07:00] years ago. 12 years ago. Yes. Yes. Uh, we had, uh, to stay home and that time the board game culture was breaking. First and after that, the Okuma disaster, uh, the same situation, uh, came. and we, uh, also, uh, must, we had to stay at, at home. And, uh, again, the boardgame culture, praying, uh, with families as, uh, uh, started the, and, uh, game cafes. Uh, the, it's a spreading in about 2015. So, uh, after several years later, uh, from after the, uh, earthquake [00:08:00] and now, uh, the 200, uh, about three hundreds, uh, boardgame cafes in Japan, mainly many in Tokyo and Osaka. Daniel: Wow. That, I would, that's, that's a lot. That's wonderful. is, is, so, is that how you became interested in board games Two, was that at the time, of the earthquake as well, or were you interested in board games before then? Ono: Okay. When I was university students, I lived in dormitory and had to no money, but plenty of time. That is when I started playing backgammon first and other games with my mates. Daniel: Yes. Ono: It was a lot of fun and my friends liked it, uh, so much that I started going out to buy new board games and a [00:09:00] little more, and that's how I came across Catan. Ono: I used to gather my friends and play all night, and sometimes I missed cross because I couldn't get up it the next day. Daniel: It was because of Catan. You, Ono: yes, yes. Kevin: that's amazing. Daniel: When you were at university and playing games with your friends, did you know at that time that you were going to become the Temple Master? Ono: No, not yet. Okay. Yeah. Uh, but I, uh, studied Buddhism and Indian philosophy, so, uh, that it's connected to my, uh, career. Daniel: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Kevin: And, uh, are there board games being played at your temple? Then you say you play at schools. Is it part of the life of your temple as well? Ono: Yes. It's [00:10:00] difficult to say. I play board games with my friends? Kevin: Okay. Ono: No. Yeah, it's not. Uh, pure gamers and parishioners. Daniel: Oh, Okay. Ono: Yes. Daniel: But since you live at the temple or they're at the temple. They come to the temple and play board games with you there. Ono: Yes. Yes. My friends. Daniel: Your friends. That's great. That's great. Ono: Uh, we have regular gatherings of friends to play board games. They're not pure games parishioners, but pure boardgame friends. Daniel: Neat. Ono: We used to have an overnight. Event. Uh, but that was also a gathering of board game enthusiasts. Not pious Buddhists , but, but I don't think that is a problem. Temples should be open their doors to society more now. Uh, if temples only accept deeply religious people, [00:11:00] they will eventually stop attracting people. Daniel: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Ono: If anyone feels free to visit the temple, uh, and just enjoy, uh, the atmosphere, uh, years or decades later, it may become a place where people can find comfort. I'd like to take a long view. Yeah. Daniel: Hmm. Kevin: I like that. long view. Daniel: So what you do now to help people feel comfortable at the temple or. or engaged with the, temple? Um, sew seeds that can grow into uh, good things generations from now, decades from now. when people, uh, would would, would be much more interested. Yeah. Can be interested in, in the life of the temple that's Wonderful That's wonderful. We talk on this show sometimes, so Kevin and I come from the, from the Christian tradition. uh, we've had guests who come [00:12:00] from the Jewish tradition or or, or Muslim and we'll say sometimes, um, other religious people in our traditions, they'll find out that we like board games so much. And, and they will become suspicious. and They will say, Hmm, I'm not sure about, about being religious and playing board games at the same time that they And, and do you ever encounter that among, among, within the religious Buddhist community there in, in Japan people who are kind of a little suspicious of playing board Ono: board games? Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Uh, because. So, uh, before I said, uh, the Japanese Buddhists is extremely secularized. The, the priests, uh, playing guitar, they are Con Con have a concert and, uh, some, uh, artists Yes. So it's a board game is one of them. Daniel: That's great. Kevin: you think it's good that [00:13:00] Buddhism in Japan is secular, or do you think it's a problem? Ono: Yes. Well, we are, uh, less, less respected. Kevin: really? Ono: because we are all almost the same as usually normal people. Ono: not not really a sense of a lot of difference between. Daniel: between uh, between the temple and maybe outside the temple. And yeah. Kevin: Mm-hmm. what, what is religious life like in japan? Because you have Buddhism, you have some Christianity, you have Shinto still? Ono: Shinto, yes. You know, oh, we. Our religion is quite mixed. Yeah. Curer, uh, Budds and Budds and, uh, Shinto [00:14:00] and Christianity also. Uh, so for example, at at uh, January 1st, uh, people go to Shrine , the, the, uh, for the beginning of the year to pray and. Um, so the marriage, so, so they invite, uh, some Christian pastor or some priest or Christianity and, and, uh, held church Ono: And as a funeral they come to Temple. Daniel: Uh, yes. Okay. Ono: So that's mixed. Kevin: so they mix it. Really? Daniel: so marriage is Christian and funeral is is Buddhist. Ono: Yes. Yes. Kevin: Oh my gosh, that is very, yeah, it didn't. That's interesting. Daniel: It sounds like you, do you spend a fair amount of time doing funerals, is that right? Ono: Exactly. my main [00:15:00] work as funeral now. No marriage. Daniel: Our listeners may not have, may not know right before this, we started recording you. Uh, you were sharing. with us that You have to, to actually get to a funeral shortly after this recording. So we're grateful for your making time to be with us. Um, we know it's a busy day for you. Where are. some Places where you see board games, and Buddhism, um, coming together? Um, um, are, are there ways that um, board games can teach something about. Buddhism perhaps or can, can reinforce something about Buddhism or do you see any overlap between those two? Ono: of Buddhism maybe. Yeah. Uh, historically, uh, there was times when monks became Go masters, you know, Go. Japanese traditional board games. Yeah. Yes. The monks became the masters. Even today they're known as [00:16:00] as the title of Go Master. Yeah. As was the name of, uh, the famous priest. Go master. Daniel: Hmm. Ono: Uh, there are also many monks who enjoy playing Shogi, Japanese, chess with, uh, maybe, uh, between, among priests or with parishioners. Daniel: Yes. Ono: Uh, in addition, a dice less game. Like snake and ladders in which players start from India and aim to become a Buddha.Yeah. Daniel: interesting. Ono: Dice game. Yeah. Means pure land. You want to go after death. means dice. based game. Yeah. So the dice based game for pure land, that's sku. Yeah. [00:17:00] To, yeah, that was, and then 17th and 18th century, uh, um, was played and, uh, helped to spread the Buddhist worldview, uh, to general public, uh, during the. 17th to 19th century. Yeah. Daniel: Interesting. Ono: Uh, in addition, the dice gambling games, which were banned by the. Shogunate during the Eido period were played at Temples. Because which, uh, because, uh, the temple were extra, extra territorial. Yeah. , Yeah. From Shogunate. Kevin: Funny. Daniel: So if you wanna play some games, go to the temple in the play with some dice. Ono: with some dice. Yes. Kevin: that happened in America with prohibition, you know, when we banned alcohol, but it was okay in church. [00:18:00] So there were some the same, for communion, people would go in and drink the wine. Yes. Ono: Yes. And the, uh, profits made, uh, from the gambling. Kevin: Hmm. Ono: Uh, the named Temple Coins. plays Money. Huh? Were donated to the Temple. Daniel: Really? Ono: Yes. Daniel: Oh, I think we should try. that in church, Kevin. Kevin: Yeah, Daniel: Yeah, I like that. That's a Good idea. Ono: idea. not, not good idea. Daniel: I'm, I'm just joking. I'm just joking! Ono: Uh, Yes, please. yes, On the other hand, gambling and even playing, Go and Shogi were sometimes forbidden, uh, because they were considered to be obstacles to buddhist practice. Yeah, yeah. The only reason why games were allowed was, uh, that [00:19:00] Buddhist temple. Had school, uh, function and games were used for children's education. Daniel: Mm mm Okay. Okay. Ono: For writing and, uh, calculating. Yeah. That is, uh, that then that is allowed. Kevin: Why? Why? Buddhism. Why was it an obstacle to Buddhism? Ono: Games and, uh, fighting. Uh, uh, so why So usually the Buddhist practice as meditation. We need a long time meditation and, uh, people must, uh, be, uh, calm mind during meditation. So the gaming. Gaming or fighting and, and there are also some activities, uh, prevent, uh, to be calm in mind. [00:20:00] Yeah. that, is, uh, the obstacle. Daniel: you you had mentioned that, um, some of the monks long ago, were, uh, were Go masters and, and do You know, what what lessons about Buddhism they found, in Go? what did they, why was Go important to them? What did they learn from? Ono: at, uh, at, uh, Heian period, from before 10th century. Among Ara, uh, the ego Go and some, um, culture gaming culture. Was, uh, there, was there So the priest, yeah. Were involved, uh, to the culture. That's why, yeah. They, uh, became master. I think that the Go itself has, uh, um, [00:21:00] had no, uh, uh, connection to Buddhism, I think. Okay. Kevin: And what are some of your favorite board games? Ono: I like middle-class [midweight] Euro games around 60 minutes. Communication games that everyone can play and talk together. Know each other. Yeah. Uh, I also play gamers games as I'm a member of the International Gamers Award. Daniel: Oh, neat, Ono: Yeah. Last year's grand prize, uh, winner of, uh, international Gamers Award. Carnegie, uh, as my, is my favorite games too. Daniel: That's a great game. Ono: okay. Yeah. Yeah. My other favorites, uh, Boon Lake and Ark Nova, Daniel: Oh, Kevin: Oh yes. Ono: but I have a new games, one after one. Uh, I buy new games, one after another. So ,I [00:22:00] don't have time to play many times. . Yeah. It's problem. Kevin: I don't know what you mean. Daniel: that that unite, that unites us across the Ono: across the world. Same as Daniel: Yes. Yes. Same as us. Yeah. Kevin: Not me. Of course. Daniel, not me. Daniel: It's just me, not not Kevin Ono: Besides this, uh, there are many Japanese board games at Game Market Tokyo Japan's biggest board game event held twice a year. Many publishers, amateur groups uhs 500 new original board games. Some games such as Love Letter, Machi Koro. And the Scout, uh, have been exported overseas and gained popularity. Of course, I play Japanese games so much that I don't have enough time to play them. Daniel: I tried Scout, actually, we, we bought Scout. for the [00:23:00] very, uh, um, my wife gave me Scout for my birthday, which was about a a month ago. and I've been playing that a lot. and I That's a great game. I love Scout. Um, and I think that's Oink Publishers, which is which is a Japanese game publishing company. I've heard the Tokyo Game Market is uh, a wa an amazing event. The, there must be a lot of fun to go. Ono: Please visit. Daniel: I can imagine. Ono: At, uh, Tokyo Game Market, the main board games presented, published at the Tokyo Game Markets, uh, mainly, uh, uh, takes, uh, short time, uh, to 15 minutes. Uh, and as a long games are not liked. Daniel: Okay. Ono: So as a Scout, as a one of them, uh, Scout can be played at, uh, 15 minutes or 20 minutes. [00:24:00] So that's a trend, a Japanese trend. Daniel: Yeah. It seems that, it seems like a lot of, it seems like that I have no. um, Research to ba to base to base this on, but it, it seems that, um, shorter games I hear talked about more uh, whatever the home country of the person. It seems, as if maybe shorter games. are becoming a little bit more popular now, but Maybe that's, maybe that's just my perception. It may not, may not be based in fact, but, uh, I know, I know. The older I get, I Certainly I enjoy quicker games. more. Where, you know, perhaps at the end of the day when I don't have very much time. It's a lot easier to get a game like Scout to the table than, um, yeah. than like Caverna or you know, or Ark Nova or something. You know, where It's much. though I think all three of us have Ark Nova and that's a [00:25:00] fantastic game. We, we, Kevin and I. played that Together. Uh, um, a few months ago and it's, it's wonderful. Ono: yeah. Also, I pray as a hobby game man. ? Yeah. Mm-hmm. , not, not buddhist. That's totally separated. Kevin: Do you play games with your family? Ono: when, uh, my children, uh uh, I played with my children, but now its very sad. My children plays video games games Ono: so they [don't] want to, uh, play a board game with me. Ono: a pity. Daniel: Do you play, do you play video games? Ono: Uh, no. None so. I want to spend time with, uh, [00:26:00] friends, not alone. Uh, when I, I'm alone, I have the, I have, um, some, uh, like Netflix and yeah, I'm a Amazon Prime. Yeah. So yes, there's many things to spend alone. Daniel: Yes, yes. Do, do you not do very many. um, solo board games, board games, just by yourself? Ono: Yes, I tried, uh, but I, I'm not a accustomed . Yeah. I, I pray I want to play board games. These, my friends, Daniel: Yes. Yes. Yeah, I can understand that. Kevin: and why did you become an Abbott at, Ono: Yeah. Uh, his Temple master, huh? Yes. Kevin: Why? Ono: Yeah. It's a difficult, [00:27:00] uh, question, but, um, the answer is, uh, I, uh, stated before like, so. I was raised in a temple, so, uh, if I don't, I didn't succeed. Uh, the, uh, priest, uh, temple master from my grandfather, my family, or must had to, uh, go out the temple and search for a new home. So, that is, uh, uh, one reason, uh, to to succeed. Yeah. Right. And, um, so I studied ya, Buddhism and Indian philosophy in my university, uh, university. And I, uh, so I [00:28:00] have a, some, uh, question. What is Buddhism as. In, in Buddhist scripture, uh, there was, uh, a sentence, uh, from, from this sec, from this section. Uh, Buddhist Buddhism can't be understand without practice. Yeah. Practice is necessary. Uh, so. Uh, if I want to know, understand Buddhism, I must practice Buddhism. Yeah, yeah. That is, uh, uh, maybe oneism to, to be a temple master. Now, every day, every day is a practice. I think, uh, not only meditation, uh, but also talking with parishioners and, uh, conducting, uh, funerals. that's [00:29:00] everything is, um, Buddhist practice now. I think. Daniel: hmm, hmm. I love that idea. Uh, thank you for sharing that Yeah. That scripture of it can only be understood through through practice. Um, it remind. it reminds me of, there's, there's a, uh, a, um, a passage in, in, uh, in Christian scriptures too, in the uh, that says, uh, that says, uh, faith without works is dead. But, you know, but it, I think it, it's, it's somewhat of a similar idea that, you know, we can say, oh, I believe this, or I believe that. But if it doesn't, if you don't live it out, in, in How you how you practice and how you behave and how you live, then it's not really then, then it's not really real. Ono: I, it reminds me of Ora Et Labora. Daniel: Oh Yes. Another good board game. Kevin: right. Ono: Yes. Daniel: Another good Ono: Rosenberg Daniel: Yes, [00:30:00] .Yeah. yeah. yeah. That's great. Ono: yes, Rosenberg. Yeah. Kevin: Oh wow. Daniel: Are there any designers that are especially hard to translate? Ono: to translate? Yeah. Use, uh, Rosenberg's Works. I use your translated into Daniel: Neat, Neat. He has long rule books. Ono: books. Yes, yes. Daniel: longer than Scout! Ono: Scout Yeah. Daniel: you said this, you said this beautiful idea of how everything is kind of Buddhist practice. You know, everything can be Buddhist practice. and do you see a way. do you see a way that when you play board games with your friends is there some sort of, does that inform, is that Buddhist practiced in a, in a way as well? Ono: Uh, for me, uh, board games are only a hobby and I have never associated with them with Buddhism. Uh, but I came up with, uh, this idea by chance because I have been, [00:31:00] uh, frequently asked, uh, more and more by TV stations and magazine. What is a relationship? , board games and Buddhism. Yeah. So I never thought, but I, I tried. Yeah. Uh, there are two main types of Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, which is transmitted from the North Tibet, China, Korea, and to. And Theravada Buddhism, which is transmitted from the south countries, Sri Lanka and Southwest countries. Japanese Buddhism belongs to Mahayana Buddhism and has given priority to the salvation of others. Yeah, LA and the perfection of own practice. Buddhism, to which I belong. At first Grants appears to be a meditation practice for the sake of own practice, [00:32:00] but even in meditation, compassion should be an important motivation. Yeah. Uh, we, uh, meditate, uh, for the sake of others. Yes. Yeah. I believe it is possible to position board games as a practice of compassion. In fact, we live our lives with various worries and sufferings on a daily basis, uh, in the social activity of board games. Uh, such worries. And Nat. Such worries. And sufferings are naturally relieved. and instead a sense of fulfillment and joy is created. Mm-hmm. , uh, removing mo worries and suffering and giving happiness is a, uh, the practice, uh, kind of therapy. Daniel: That's a great answer. Thank you so much. I love that. [00:33:00] I love that. Kevin: Hmm. It lifts our burdens. Daniel: Yeah. And it's for others, this, this practice for, for, for the benefit of others and oh, that's wonderful. Thank you. Thank yeah. And that's interesting that you've been asked that question. More and more people have been asking you that question. TV stations and magazines. Kevin: Excellent. Well, thank you. I know you need to get to a, um, funeral, so we'll, we will. Thank you very much for your time. Um, Daniel: Yeah. Kevin: anything else you wanna share or ask Ono: and send. Uh, so usually I load, um, my Board Gamers article on my website, table games in the world. , uh, in Japanese. Uh, but you may, uh, translate, uh, Google Trans using Google Translate, uh, to read the Japanese board game situation. Yeah. If you are interested in Kevin: that'd be great. We'll get a link and [00:34:00] we'll share that link. Daniel: It was very, I, I went there and used google Translate to, to, to, to read some of it. It was very interesting. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Um. And you are on board Game Geek as well, I believe. Ono san. Ono: Exactly. Yeah. Daniel: If people, I think just look up your name on board Game Geek. Uh, Takuya Ono. Um, That, that you can, they can find you on board game Geek as well. Ono: know. Boardgame. Uh, priest. Daniel: Board Game priest. Um, uh, Ono: It's Kevin: That's great. Okay. Daniel: well this has been delightful. Thank you. so much Ono-san. We appreciate it. Ono: you. welcome. Daniel: Yeah. Kevin: Yes and Daniel: Kevin, anything else? from Kevin: no, we just, well, uh, thanks to our listeners and check us out. We are on Instagram. Look for us. In fact, we have a special competition inspired by Ono-san. The picture where you were seated [00:35:00] in your, I guess, temple with your games around you, that photo. we're gonna try to do that too. Daniel: we're gonna ask our listeners. Yep, yep. So watch for that listeners and um, on our social media. and that'll be great. I'm looking forward to that. Kevin: Thank you very much. Daniel: well great. Thank you so much. Ono-san. Ono: much. Welcome. I had a, a very good time with you and, uh, if, uh, some, if you need it, please, uh, call again. Daniel: I would love, we would love, to talk with you again and maybe someday we can all get together and play scout and Ark Nova Ono: please. that would be great. Much. Please play. Please play. Daniel: that would be great. Kevin: excellent. Daniel: all right, well Thank you all so much. Um, and we will, We'll, see you all next time.