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[Show Intro]\
Jala\
Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! \
Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here!\
\
[Intro music]\
\
00:00.00\
Jala\
Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I am joined by Ollie (he/him) yaaay hi Ollie I am okay.\
\
00:09.52\
Ollie\
Here daa. How are you.\
\
00:13.77\
Jala\
It's been a day but I am here now with a favorite person talking about a fun thing that I've been studying about. So um, it'll be great.\
\
00:18.87\
Ollie\
Yeah, oh it absolutely will and then I just want people who are listening just to this is the second time I've recorded on this type of show with Jala and I missed 1 due to unforeseen family circumstances on this end. But I just want people to know just how much effort Jala puts into planning for these things. So right? not to to go into my science background anything because I'm merely a high school teacher. Maybe very good at my job as a high school teacher but the equivalent of a high school teacher in Ireland and but I was quite. Quite versed in scientific stuff and I have peer reviewed papers with less prep than Jala has put into this episode of the podcast and this is yeah I think it's going to end up being a double episode at some stage because there's no way we're covering this over the the length of 1 so.\
\
01:17.81\
Ollie\
For those of you listening and I'm sure anyone who is listening knows each child that puts in a amount of work I Just want you know that somebody who has had to do this for a living in the past was genuinely impressed by the amount of work she put into this.\
\
01:27.39\
Jala\
Well thank you I appreciate that? Um, first off before we get into it. Okay, well, we're talking about and you already know this from the title of the episode but I'm trying to get to the point where I'm I'm saying it right up front. Ah, we're talking about biodiversity and wellness today. Ah we will get more into what I mean by all of that shortly. But Ollie how are you doing.\
\
01:52.11\
Ollie\
I'm doing really well. Um, do you mean physically mentally mental physically I think I'm doing well in all of those areas at the moment and it's not often. You get to be able to say I feel I'm I Just you know I.\
\
01:53.20\
Jala\
Whatever way you care to define that term.\
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02:02.99\
Jala\
Both Why don't you bother to parse it out then ah.\
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02:09.92\
Ollie\
I'm feeling good metaphysically like it's such a nice thing to be able to say and how are how are you telling.\
\
02:13.90\
Jala\
That's great. That's great. Good to hear. Well um I already said it's been a day. Ah, but again, like okay so so up the kind of day I've been having I was working working and working Dave gets off of work. He gets off of work before I do because he goes in earlier. He comes in because he always comes in to say hi to me when he comes home and so he pops his head in and I turn around and I'm like what because I'm just like right in the middle of like getting assaulted by a particular person who was disgruntled over a thing that.\
\
02:49.59\
Jala\
Wasn't my fault and I had to calm them down for something that I didn't do which is always a pleasure. So um, you know Dave never knows what's going to happen when he opens my office door. So.\
\
03:04.90\
Ollie\
Ah, the ah the waveform for that was ah quite spectacular.\
\
03:09.72\
Jala\
Yeah I'm sure Dave will expertly dampen it down a little bit so it doesn't blast out anybody's eardrums. Sorry ah, but that the actual thing was more more intense than that. But either way either way. Ah, we are here now that is great. And I'm excited to be talking about this thing that I've been studying about off and on for a while. Um, so before we dig into it. The usual thing to do is to say Ollie what other stuff. Do you do on the internet. What's what's your podcasting. Stuff that you do or any other projects you've got out.\
\
03:42.51\
Ollie\
I I usually I come on and say I don't you can't really find me internet I do quite a few podcasts mostly these days I'm I'm a guest I used to host several and um, just over time as my son was becoming more I was going to say more needy but that sounds terrible. As my son's needs became more severe. Um I had to step away from full-time podcasting or nearly full-time podcasting to the point where now I guessed a lot but the the one that I guessed on most often is's called judging and book covers which is kind of like an online book club where we just pick a novel or. Ah, novelist and read a couple of other books and then the discuss and it's it's a ton of fun and the 2 ladies that I do that podcast way are both fantastic. Are way more intelligent than I am and way more knowledgeable about books. So if you listen to judgment book covers you I think you'll Lyn. Enjoy it. There's something for everybody there and also we have a spinoff of that now called judging boy pans. Because we were discussing boy bands so often that the spin now happened and we've we've recorded 3 or 4 episodes by the time this comes out one of them might have been released. But yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun I'm 43 years of age and i.\
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04:42.29\
Jala\
Ah, the spinoff happened ok.\
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04:57.79\
Ollie\
Can't say that boy bands were really my thing but I've been having a ton of fun listening to music I've never listened to before and genuinely sitting there with a smile of my fist on damn these new kids on the block were they were pretty good.\
\
05:12.13\
Jala\
Ah, you know one of my ah memories about new kids on the block. So um, at my house. We listen to music all the time but it was my dad's music. So um, whatever he thought that was so that would be a lot of. Um, you know like cuban music or or whatever. But then it would also be a lot of bluegrass and folk because my dad grew up in Nebraska after he came here from Cuba so um, a lot of different types of music but new kids on the block wasn't in there.\
\
05:45.88\
Jala\
The funny thing about this though and my dad in music and this is a tangent I realize but it's it's a good one listen to this so my dad um would end up getting into bands a long time after the fact right? So um, you know the the time for something like Ace Of Bass was a long time ago. Ok and then he got into it and then he was just playing one cd on repeat for a month and then he would just be sitting in the kitchen making a sandwich or whatever and then singing all that she wants.\
\
06:19.48\
Ollie\
I was about to say it is another baby. She's gone tomorrow. It's so catchy.\
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06:22.69\
Jala\
So well in the worst part is the the worst thing the worst one was when he got into Ricky Martin and then.\
\
06:32.42\
Ollie\
From menudo.\
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06:35.31\
Jala\
Ah, well and it while Ricky Martin's Solo career and then he was getting into She Bangs. She be like oh my god no especially since um, at least now now nowadays my dad has taken to wearing pants in the house but um, for a while he would just.\
\
06:54.57\
Jala\
Before Dave was with us and even sometimes after Dave's been here. He wears his tidy whiteies and that's it in the summer because he gets hot and then he just and so he'll be in the kitchen in the middle of the night in his tidy whiteies singing she bangs and I think I just you know.\
\
07:02.99\
Ollie\
It's it's hard. Yeah.\
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07:13.99\
Ollie\
Again, It's a very cat.\
\
07:15.97\
Jala\
Ah, so so that's my story about um, my dad and boy bands. Um, but like new kids on the block. My story about New kids on the block. My I listened to it a little bit but I didn't actually own any of the albums or anything because um, you know I basically didn't have anywhere to listen to them anyway. But. I Remember when we were helping my dad sell stuff at a flea Market Once they had new kids on the block beach towels and because I was like oh yeah, new kids on the block. That's cool and I think I had one I'm not sure unconfirmed, but that's like the.\
\
07:47.85\
Ollie\
It happened.\
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07:50.96\
Jala\
The 1 thing that maybe I owned I don't remember.\
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07:56.94\
Ollie\
Ah, my sister my older sister I have 3 sisters but my older sister and loved new kids under buck. She's about 4 years older than I am so when they were in their heyday I was like 8 to 12 But that meant that she was 12 to 16 that entire time.\
\
08:12.57\
Ollie\
So it was right at the time where they were aiming for people like her. She loved them. There were posters on the wall. She had their names written on the inside of her trapper keepers and stuff like this so I grew up with the music in the background in house but I was listening I was a pretentious little kid listening to Billy Joe because just so good at striking to piano keys like I remember saying having that conversation where people like they're trying to tell me about I'm listening to Bo Jovi and I'm not going but but you really need to listen to the cold spring harbor album like so I I never really had that. Ah.\
\
08:44.32\
Jala\
Ah, that's great.\
\
08:50.84\
Ollie\
Affinity for those sos of bands but because it was always on I recognize so many of those songs now when when we were going through them on the episodes we did new kids in the block. We've done take that which is the british equivalent like and as good as anybody here is listening to this who really likes new kids on the block. I just want you to sit note that take that word the far superior but like they're incredible if you listen to those albums like just as somebody who genuinely likes music and and I feel like I've got I've developed a depreciation of it as I've got olderler take that word genuinely. Good musicians and good at singing and good at harmonizing in ways that a lot of other manufactured bands really weren't so yeah, but again, they never really translate it over to the states like Robbie Williams might have made it over here as a solo career or over there as a solo career but I can't really remember if he was successful I know he was.\
\
09:34.46\
Jala\
Yeah, yeah.\
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09:47.90\
Ollie\
Successful. But I'm not sure if he was like global conscious kind of successful. But yeah, if you get chances them but it's just it's crazy to me how many of the songs where I'll hear and I'm taken I don't recognize a song called back for good I've never heard that and then you hit play and after the first.\
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09:49.29\
Jala\
Right.\
\
10:05.18\
Ollie\
20 seconds you're singing every single word hey like okay so clearly I did pick this up.\
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10:08.70\
Jala\
Ah, right right? That must be interesting because you've got like the the new material appeal but it's also weirdly nostalgia at the same time.\
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10:18.61\
Ollie\
Yeah, it's like when people claim they don't I don't know any Taylor Swift song but I guarantee you you know twenty Taylor Swift talks\
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10:30.26\
Jala\
Ah I think I'm one of those people who's like I don't know what's wait like so here's the thing I listen to music I hear music ambiently in places but like I don't remember names of anything so like whatever Anyway, anyway, so.\
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10:44.87\
Jala\
So you do you? you apparently like this this boy band thing. So judging boy bands and judging book covers. Yes, yes, great. You just do a lot of judging. Yeah that that's in line with what you were telling me about the Billy Joel thing right? right.\
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10:49.69\
Ollie\
And judging book covers. Yeah, but.\
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11:00.94\
Ollie\
It's true I've never changed. It's on brand.\
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11:03.53\
Jala\
So um, as for this show you can find us on coffee k o hyphen f I dot com slash fireerhart media. Um, there are different options for you there you can kick us few bucks just once because you like us for the 1 episode that you heard. Ah, you can also. Kick us a few bucks and subscribe monthly and get extra stuff like extra shows extra reviews and things like that. So check that out and support us if you can. It's lovely also ratings and reviews are great, but that's all I'm going to say about like the the pre-show. Stuff. Let's talk about biodiversity and how it affects your wellness but why isn't there a song about this from from some boy band I'm so upset. Anyway, oh oh I'm sure so\
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11:48.90\
Ollie\
I maybe not a maybe not boy bands. But I guarantee Simon & Garfunkle can have one somewhere.\
\
11:58.58\
Jala\
Um, yeah, ah, the bulk of what we're going to be talking about today insofar as my notes that I have written that we're going through ah primarily comes from a book from Rob Dunn called Never Home Alone. However I have an entire bibliography of. Somewhere approaching 15 to 20 books that I have read about this subject and related things as pertains to different things like the environment and your body and this that and the other and so I've looked at it from a bunch of different angles. But I feel like this one book from Rob Dunn never home alone is a really good kind of overview of the subject matter for folks who are interested in what? Ah what? what your environment and what the microbes and its small life that you know exists all around us is doing for us and you know how. Biodiversity and exposure to the outdoors and exposure to animals and other people and stuff is super critical to our wellness. So um, either way. Ah the american museum of natural history defines biodiversity which is short for biological diversity. If anyone didn't know that ah as the variety of life on earth at its all at all its levels from genes to ecosystems which can encompass the evolutionary ecological and cultural processes that sustain life. So um.\
\
13:30.79\
Jala\
Real vague description there. So I mean like it's it's I say vague because it's just so broad right? It's not really, but then again, it's a broad broad word and we'll we'll get into Minutia and really kind of focus on the microbiome of your house and of your body a little bit. \
\
13:50.00\
Jala\
There'll be another episode just on your body later because there's just way too much to talk about.\
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13:55.29\
Ollie\
There is and I was doing my own side research as gerald was sending me snippets from the books that she was going through and I was starting to realize that even myself and I was doing this just you know in a free class or. When I had 10 minutes free and I was coming upwards on Twenty Charty pages word of stuff and I went. Okay there's no how with what we've already got in this main document and what I put together myself I was like right? There's way too much information here for 1 episode see. Yeah. If you would have me back for the second episode I'd I'd love to come back and talk about the the biom of the human body.\
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14:30.42\
Jala\
Absolutely absolutely. We will continue to talk about this subject. Um the further I dig into it the more interesting it gets and the more I'm like well ah, there's a fine line between like you know like there's there's. Balance to be struck right insofar as ah, what? what kinds of things that each of us decides is best for them. Um, as regards to increasing the biodiversity around you know yourself and and your family and everything so we will get into it. We will get into it. So um. More preliminary stuff. So a and H studies among other things. The biocultural aspects of the diversity of life on the planet. This means studying the dynamic continually evolving and interconnected nature of people and place and the notion that social and biological dimensions are Interrelated. So ah, the place that you are from influences how you develop and all vice versa humans use ah human use knowledge and Beliefs influence and our turn influenced by the ecological systems of which human communities are a part.\
\
15:28.68\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah.\
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15:39.93\
Ollie\
Yeah, the interconnected and interrelated thing is is that the main gist of what the am and hat the American museum of natural history are trying to get across here like you gave a perfect example where you grew up has an effect on your lifeside so you can go and find statistics that say that if you. Look at the Australian population. They have a higher cancer rate than other equivalent first world countries. Um, and but when you start digging into that you come across the fact that they have a much much higher rate of and melanoma so skin cancer and.\
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16:16.72\
Ollie\
When you then break down the population of Australia upwards of 20% of any number of people living in the country at any given time are immigrants or expats from Ireland and England and irish and english people grow up in what we like to describe a perfect climate which means that the temperature.\
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16:36.28\
Ollie\
Rarely drops below 0 and rarely rises above \'c2\'b0 which is about 69 to 70 which means that we are very rarely in the sunburn region and then for some reason are young people. Moved to Australia and try to live in Australia for five to six years and they are exposing themselves to possibly the most intense sun that you can get on planet earth and still be in a habitable landscape I mean you can obviously there places like that valley in California which are a you know. More severe but people aren't just hanging around on the streets there whereas in Australia if you're working through Melbourne it can regularly get up to \'c2\'b0 which is one hundred and six hundred and seven degrees on your scale. So these people who have spent their first twenty years of their lives. Living in 50 to \'c2\'b0 are now suddenly living in \'c2\'b0 for five or six years and then you're getting high rates of skin cancer because of that. So all of their background has led to them not being able to be surviving or thriving in the new area that they get into. So yeah, everything that. That you are and where you live and how you exist has an effect on what you're going to do with the rest of your life and how you're going to react to your ecosystem how you're going to react to the biome that you're living in. So yeah I think it's very important like it's ah and it's important to stress this for people listening that everything that you do is dependent.\
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18:10.32\
Ollie\
On everything else that you're doing and we're not just talking about finances and work. We're talking about everything that happens in your life.\
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18:13.54\
Jala\
Yeah, yeah, absolutely and so the part of it too is the place that you live also influences the kind of culture that comes about as a result of that like you know there are different peoples who you know. Their interactions with the environment are drastically different because of the place that they live in like you know where you live you don't have to deal with something like hurricanes and natural disasters like how we have here in Houston so um.\
\
18:48.23\
Jala\
You know like that that influences some things and like say for example stuff like having a siesta part of how that that comes about is because you know the culture of you know Spain or other areas like that. Ah, is one where they take a rest at the hot part of the day right? So that way they can. They can not be active in burning themselves out because of the warmer climate to comparatively to where you are for example and um I honestly wish they had sstas here in Houston because it's too freaking hot for people being outside.\
\
19:20.37\
Jala\
Stuff You know at the height of the day. So um, things like that you know where it's like ah well the the place that you're in also influences that and then the culture that develops around it also incorporates those elements like think about the way that people from your culture. You know, whatever culture you come from and like if you're American then like the the ancestral cultures of the peoples that came before you you know from whatever kind of ah descent you are right? Um, you know like the way that they interacted with animals or the way that they conceived of food right? And and. Kind of social gatherings and and stuff that happen around food and food is a big part of your biodiversity you know and you know do you live in a situation where your family was very close growing up and like when I mean close I mean like in the same house or close By. To where you were always around them and I feel like that's more something that is a part of like American minority culture than it is you know like white American culture. You know, but um I mean not to cast a pain a big broad stroke there but like you know every single minority person that I know.\
\
20:33.16\
Jala\
Um, has has like a close tie to some family in some some respect where you know like it's kind of a hit or miss with with other folks who are Caucasian so um, you know it just kind of depends upon like the kinds of cultures that your family comes from. The place that you were born in and what that means for you like you talk about the perfect climate for me that sounds terrible because I was born and raised in temperatures that go up to 1 oh yes, one zero six is is you know normal for me. Um I don't do snow I don't do cold I get cold when it's lower than like.\
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21:12.18\
Jala\
Maybe \'c2\'b0 so like if you're telling me it doesn't even get to 72 that's terrible like I would be so cold all the time you know.\
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21:13.60\
Ollie\
Who 72 72 is beyond where I feel comfortable and I genuinely mean that so you you just mentioned sp and earlier and first time I went to Spain and went to bars Nona and I was. Having a great old time I was about 18 and I was enjoying what it was like live in ah, not living the god I was there for three weeks but I was enjoying what it was like to be in another country really for the first time and I was doing a lot of drinking and I was doing a lot of partying and everything was fine. Everything was fun. But after the first two days started noticing that places were closed in the afternoon and spanish restaurants were open until one a m people weren't sitting down to have dinner until 10 p m which irish dinner is five p m the 6 pm and most people are in bed at 1 a M and\
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22:12.40\
Ollie\
Restaurants were still open at 1 am and it just becomes such a different culture and to experience that as an outsider you're like what what's going on here but I remember the first night in barcedona at nighttime it was upwards of 75 \'c2\'b0 and we were over there as a group of Pasty White irish Chick kids and we just couldn't handle it at all I mean we were sweating while sleeping which is a terrible terrible way to be and it's why I believe that most I hope you have it in your house central air.\
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22:44.56\
Jala\
Oh yeah, we have central air. Ah, but it will drive you um up a wall perhaps to know that the current temperature that our central air is set at is 77 not because of me I would probably have it at about 75 but um my dad.\
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22:46.95\
Ollie\
Yeah.\
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23:00.81\
Jala\
And my mom because they are um, you know they have various medical conditions and they don't move around a whole lot and they're older. They get cold easy. So it's at 77 so yeah yeah, you would die. so so yeah um but why why is by.\
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23:06.53\
Ollie\
Um, yeah I would die each.\
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23:20.61\
Jala\
Diversity importance. So ah, there's lots of reasons why it provides for basic human needs feud fool or feud food Fuel Shelter medicine. Ah, but it also.\
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23:32.81\
Jala\
Provides vital agricultural services such as pollination seed dispersal climate regulation water purification nutrient cycle and control of pests. Ah, yes, eventually we will be talking about like agricultural stuff. We will be talking about climate stuff and another environmental stuff that's out of the purview of what we're talking about today. Um, but keep that in mind there will be eventually episodes on those Ah anyway, other other important things. The biodiversity of the world also provides a potential for future new medicines and services that we haven't discovered yet because we don't know we haven't catalogued all the life on earth we're still finding new species constantly. Even. While we kill off more species than you know has ever occurred in. Basically I think any of the epochs of of earth I think is is the suspected ah volume. At this point.\
\
24:27.86\
Ollie\
Yeah, we were killing them off ah rates that they are completely Unprecedented. We were discovering them at rates that was Unprecedented. So what they will say is that you know we're aware now that we're killing them off and we're trying to take steps to reduce that. So for example. Will tell you that when like when I was a kid I remember you couldn't turn on the Tv without finding out that African elephants were dying out and it was It was a huge campaign and was like fun. The elephants fund the leopards fund the tigers fund the pandas like all of those have come off the um, the endangered wildlife thing.\
\
24:49.13\
Jala\
Yeah, yeah.\
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25:04.27\
Ollie\
But there are others that are getting wiped out the the genuinely we probably have wiped out species. We did know existed in the last ten minutes and that's what that's the the reality of the situation is that we're discovering these things 5 years after we've managed to create environments where these animals and plants can't live.\
\
25:22.93\
Ollie\
Love the fact that they just in your notes it says um the current epoch and then to to um to give further information they in brackets has got the Anthrop andim as if you would just automatically know oh yeah, of course yeah, that's the current epoch. Yeah. Um I use anthropocene all the time in my and my heavy tail life. But ah yeah, it.\
\
25:46.23\
Jala\
Do I mean I study this stuff all the time dang it. But I'm I'm currently reading a book about some like the the mass extinction from the Permian Era So whatever like I'm yeah anyway, that's not the point.\
\
26:00.72\
Ollie\
Um, wow.\
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26:05.45\
Jala\
So yeah, yeah, um, anyway, other things that are important about Biodiversity. Ah, the inherent cultural value via spiritual and religious as well as Folkloric applications. Um, which that's definitely a truth. And um, the manner in which the place in which we live shapes who we are We kind of mention that already our relationships to each other and the rest of the world as well as our social norms. So like an example that I cite in my notes that I didn't refer to earlier is like. Life in a remote Nepalese village For example is vastly different from living on the African Savannah or the Um Amazonian rainforest or in the Us, they're all very very different ways of living. So ah, you know like Urban areas are also. Super different from any rural area even within the same country as folks who have lived in both Know. So um, yeah, those are some things to think about like the the place in which you live really does. Ah. Influence but it not just influences like your culture and your relationships and things like that. But as we will talk about it. Also you know, basically dictates what your microbiome inside your body looks like and that has a drastic effect on your wellness. So.\
\
27:20.99\
Jala\
Um, like Oli mentioned about like oh going to another place and then like you're not um, you know like people from Ireland are not acclimated to and cannot acclimate to the kind of situation in Australia you know because like that would take.\
\
27:38.88\
Jala\
You know several generations of eventually like getting accustomed to it over time and in like you know, intermarrying with the local population and this that and the other to um, get there right. Um, but like that's also why you get stuff like traveler's diarrhea and things like that and why people who come from. Um you know, not like say if they come from like a rural village in India or something and they are like an exchange student or whatever and they come to the Us. .\
\
28:07.25\
Jala\
They can have a lot of different things like gastrointestinal distress and other kinds of illnesses that hit them because they're not able to process our hyper processed foods and live in our super sterile environments that we place out there for ourselves and similarly if we were to go to. You know some some kind of super rural area in a vastly different place in the world. We would be encountering a ah, a different environment that we are not accustomed to and not not only is it just like the sunburn factor as you know you mentioned Ali but like it's also. How you adapt to the food and how you adapt to the different germs and bacteria and fungi and whatever that you come across as you're you know, just living there. So.\
\
28:55.16\
Ollie\
Yeah I Yeah I used to joke with with friends that as part of our privileged Lifestyles. We've traveled to many many countries and the the running joke was that I have a friend named Kiiran and Kiiran Lovely man and I hope he listens to this. But we used to joke that he has had diarrhea in more countries than any other person because he just he has a ah quite sensitive stomach. So As soon as you go to another country and you eat something which he's not accustomed to his body just rejects it and when your body rejects stuff the most common.\
\
29:31.90\
Ollie\
2 ways for your body to do that are to make you sweat excessively or to have you have diarrhea if it gets to the point where you're vomiting that that's gone beyond the stage right? That's not just your body rejecting it. That's that's something more wrong at that point. But yeah, so he's had diary in but I think we were joking before it as like 50 plus countries and. Yeah, he pre pretty much has and I just wanted to ask a question. Maybe maybe you could ask a doubt at some stage when he moved from because like I have to imagine the move from Cuba to Nebraska was such a change like did he does has he ever mentioned.\
\
30:09.11\
Ollie\
Feeling sick because of the food or feeling sick because he was living near Omaha which I'm assuming is still i.\
\
30:14.75\
Jala\
Ah, ah, no, no, he hasn't so um, it's another tangent to try to go into ah all of his all of his shtick. But um, the most that I hear of his childhood when he got to Nebraska is that he was a hell Razer see when he first came here during. Operation bedroupan. Ah he was taken by the Catholic Church and he was placed with some dutch nuns who lived in Rural Nebraska and then those dutch nuns didn't know english or spanish and the kids didn't know english or Dutch. So ah, they had some communication issues but also ah like I happened to meet those nuns. Maybe when I was eight years old they were still alive and I'm sure they're long past at this point but um, they were like he was a hell raiser they remembered him and they were like yeah he was a hellraiser and they were telling me stories about all the different stuff. He did.\
\
31:09.79\
Jala\
And then my dad every once somehow will tell me stories. He usually tells me about mischief. He doesn't tell me about anything else. He probably blocked it out of his memory if he got sick. But but yeah, so um.\
\
31:16.90\
Ollie\
Um, the reading bad things.\
\
31:24.57\
Jala\
Anyway, so the rest of this episode though is going to be focusing on our homes and our bodies primarily our homes at this point. Um, hopefully we can touch on some of the stuff about body microbiomes as well. But yeah anyway, um so let's go ahead and start going into our house. So. A research group raised the question of what sort of biodiversity exists in our homes. So Ollie I know you have the notes but until you read the notes could you have possibly guessed how many species were found in houses across the world.\
\
31:58.00\
Ollie\
Um I can go beyond the notes for you here I teach something very similar to this in my classroom every year. So um I tick so it's so obviously I'm teaching high school level kids so from 12 to 18 So.\
\
32:13.60\
Ollie\
For the kids who are about 13 or 14 we have a biodiversity class and in a biodiversity class I have to ask that question every single year and I can tell you that no kid ever gives an answer that's more than one thousand ever and even the kid the kid who says 1000\
\
32:32.73\
Ollie\
We'll always be after there's been maybe 10 of the guesses and I'm just pointing into this guy to represent higher and then they're throwing out 1000 as a big guess and you're going to reveal the actual answer now and hopefully it blows the minds of people listening.\
\
32:47.43\
Jala\
Yeah, so in your house your little house or apartment or wherever it is that you happen to sleep at night you have 200000 different forms of life different species living in your house. So a lot of these just so you don't start. Having a panic attack. Perhaps ah a lot of these are microbial. So like they're microbes their fungi they're they're invisible critters. Not things that you can see so um, that might actually cause more panic for some folks, but um, but the good. The good news is that more species. Okay, so so even though more species of bacteria have been found in homes than there are species of birds and mammals on earth even though that is the case I think it's something like what what? where was the percentage of the things.\
\
33:37.21\
Jala\
Bacteria I have it in my note somewhere about like the percentage of how many bacteria is are actually harmful. Yeah, yeah, there's less than 50 pathage pathogens out of like thousands and thousands and whatever different species that we know of anyway.\
\
33:43.73\
Ollie\
Um, oh pathogens does less than 50\
\
33:53.81\
Jala\
So um, yeah, like pathogens. Yeah, they're fewer than fifteen there. It is that would regularly cause disease. So even though there's all of this life living in your house. It's not going to like your house isn't going to kill you. Um necessarily I won't I won't promise that but necessarily I won't necessarily kill you.\
\
34:11.96\
Ollie\
Yeah, so with the 200000 microbactact that are micropacteries god you could believe I a scientist but but the 200 microbial and entities 200000 microbi entities it's about being in the right place or the wrong place and yes.\
\
34:31.77\
Ollie\
If you get there are things which are completely benign and you can touch them with your hands. You can sit on them. You can rub past them and they're never going to cause you any harm or they're beneficial.\
\
34:38.96\
Jala\
Or they're beneficial. They could also be beneficial.\
\
34:44.89\
Ollie\
Helping they're doing something your your body will get into a system where entropy exists where everything is working together to keep the home the way it is now we're not saying that they're not dangerous if they end up in the wrong place. So if you happen to have a cut and you can row up against the exact same. Bacteria. You've been rubbing up against 10000 times you can get an infection there and then your body will have to work out a way to fight it off and in most cases, your body will you'd get. You know you'll have the coat. It'll haal. You get a scab you get a little bit of pross on it. Your body knows how to deal with these things. All right? We're not saying when it says that there's 50 pathogens. It's not that there's only 50 diseases and there's only 50 things that can cause you harm anything could but your body is designed or so designed has evolved in a way to fight that off and they're not dangerous to you. It's.\
\
35:40.27\
Ollie\
Very very spirit but people have convinced themselves that they're not and um, it' what this is not um I mentioned to somebody today that I was going to come on and and talk about microbiomes on the body and I said I'm talking to an american friend about it. Oh they'd probably be into some sort of new age hippie stuff which is again. Just the assumption that somebody that you know from the internet will be into something weird. But again, that's not the situation. We're talking about here is nobody is is going to be trying to convince anybody listening that you should stop washing because.\
\
36:12.42\
Jala\
Right.\
\
36:16.28\
Ollie\
Soap is causing you to kill a friendly bacteria like that's not what this podcast is going to be at least I hope now Jala you sold it to me wrong. But we're not gonna be doing that we're just gonna be talking about what's happening and what these bacteria are doing and how so many of them that are existing now I'm sitting in my kitchen right now.\
\
36:21.43\
Jala\
Um, no no.\
\
36:34.33\
Ollie\
And probably surrounded by a 100000 different types of bacteria and I ate dinner here 5 minutes ago and the plate that I ate dinner on had probably has 10000 types of bacteria and none of them are ever going to cause me any harm.\
\
36:44.66\
Jala\
Right? Well part of what I wanted to mention is that that diversity that vast number of different things coexisting in the same space is actually part of what helps to keep you safe because when you have a bunch of different species of. Microbes living in the same space they have to compete for resources right? They have to compete for space. They have to compete for whatever they eat and that kind of thing. So if you do something like say for example, um, where you come into some issues with the body. For example, is like if you take an antibiotic. The antibiotic is a broad spectrum kind of thing in most cases, there are some that are like a narrow focus like a penicin pen. The Penicillin for example, would be like a narrow focused one that doesn't affect every single type of of bacteria in your body just specific ones. Um, anyway like these days we. More or less usually use broad spectrumru kinds of antibiotics which therefore kill as many types of bacteria as possible including all the good ones. So What happens here you take this antibiotic because you're Sick. You take the antibiotic and then. It kills off all the bacteria or most of the bacteria that you've got going in your gut and that means it's also killing off all the beneficial bacteria. Well the shit of it is that the good bacteria the beneficial bacterias that you have are usually more vulnerable to.\
\
38:16.82\
Jala\
Dying off than the bad ones. The bad ones are hardier and so they will stick around longer so in the process of attempting to heal yourself from this this one bacterial infection or whatever that you've got you kill off all the good Stuff. So if you don't kill all that bacteria off right? All all of the bad bacteria that is you have now created a desolate wasteland in your gut where now that bad bacteria that is left over or a new introduced bad Bacteria If you happen to have another one come along.\
\
38:50.52\
Jala\
Without rebuilding your gut biome first ah can then spread and multiply because there's all this space and all these resources that are not being used by the good bacteria and that's why it's real important to have like a probiotic and a prebiotic and ah, whatever all these different things. Um, while you're taking an antibiotic. And also don't take an antibiotic unless you actually have to take 1 We'll get into that on a whole different episode because that's a whole thing that we can. We can sit on for a while. But um, this same thing happens when it comes to hospitals. For example, when you go to a hospital. They sterilize everything and that's good right. Well sort of it's it's sort of good but it means that the bad bacteria that it or that is leftover and the bad viruses that are left over whatever is on surfaces there eventually over generations because you know their generations evolve very quickly. Get used to the solutions and stuff and become heartier and more resistant to the clean cleaning solutions being used and then they stick around and they're harder to kill and that's why people who go into hospitals oftentimes get infections is because the only bacteria that's left in there. Are the bad ones that have stuck around and gotten really strong. So um, something to consider ah just for yourself. You know like just keep that in mind when it comes to hospitals and and antibiotics and hand sanitizers and all different kinds of stuff like you can.\
\
40:19.60\
Jala\
Actually create an environment that will make it easier for bad bacterias to populate and take over in any particular area by being a little bit too clean. So.\
\
40:30.96\
Ollie\
Oh absolutely, there are hospitals in the world which have closed off wards because the wards themselves have been infected with but m mra so Mra stands for m I think it's meicillin so that that's the family of penicillin and so meicillin resistant Staphlacor Sapphoc cacccasauureus we've all had staphylooccccus aureus in our body at some stage of life right? You've you've had a staph infection. You've had the sore throat. That's usually a staphlocopus aureus infection. So the metayin resistant version of that means that true generations and generations of bacterial development Dave got to the point where. Only the strong one survived. So the ones that were unable to be killed with penicillin are the ones that survived so when the hospitals were sterilizing everything on the ward and sterilizing every single piece equipment. There was nothing to combat the um Mra so then they became completely. Infected by it and it doesn't matter how much cleaning you do there. We don't have anything that kills that um mra beyond going up to something as strong as vancomycin and I said when we talk about the human bio I'll I'll talk about what vanchomycin does to your body. Yes, it can kill bacterial invaders. But it will wipe out just about everything else. That's in there as well. So um I said this this idea of Mra or hospitals being clean places. Yes, they're clean of everything that the hospital is able to kill. They're not clean of stuff which has become resistant to it and it's true.\
\
42:03.89\
Ollie\
Many many years of um I was going to say genetic research but genetic development or mutations that we have these incredible superbugs that we just can't kill using the same materials that we used for the fifty years for preceding that.\
\
42:18.31\
Jala\
Right? And that same kind of thing applies as well to pests in your house. Everyone knows about cockroaches becoming resistant to. Certain types of traps and baits and sprays and this that in the other and every once in a while all of the insecticides that you use have to be changed up and you have to switch to something else because the species that you're trying to kill off has gained an immunity to it or at least a resistance and it's not as effective as it used to be. And again like that's because their generations are shorter than our lives are and so like within you know a shorter amount of time and then they also also for microbes and for insects they often produce way more offspring so they can They can you know crowd out everything else very very quickly and so. Um, you know like when they gain a resistance when they gain an immunity to some of the measures that we take against them then it kind of um Borks everything up it kind of ah makes it to where oh well, that spray might also kill other types of bugs that it's not on the label for right? But um. Then that leaves more space and more resources for the thing you're trying to kill that has become resistant to just take over um some of the stuff I was reading was about how there's certain types of wasps that um, they're not the same as like hornets or anything like that These are different types different species of wasps that are.\
\
43:45.88\
Jala\
Specifically wasps that will go after roaches like the German cockroaches that we see everywhere are most of the time. Ah they will go and kill roaches and there's also um, several different cultures around the world who keep spiders in their house. Keep a spider web with some spiders in their house.\
\
44:05.51\
Jala\
Because those spiders will take care of Mosquitoes and flies and other stuff like that that are pathogencarrying critters that we don't want to around us. So um, you know like there are and that this is something That's also being done on a small scale in the farming setting as well. So again like when we get to agriculture and stuff at some point in the future. Ah, we'll talk more about that but using nature against you know, like to balance itself out using the biodiversity and what the relationships are between the different species to your advantage is something that we will see in in the stuff about our bodies. Ah, there was a whole experiment done on babies about that. Um Mrsa you know, ah pandemic level Actually um, we'll we'll get there. But um, you know like using so like a a natural thing. You know like a natural balance but like reintroducing a balance. Let's say into the environment so that it can level itself out and keep everything in check and and kind of restore itself to like ah a level state rather than um, you know like.\
\
45:18.36\
Jala\
The post-apocalyptic future where the cockroaches have taken over the world. You know? So yes.\
\
45:23.84\
Ollie\
Which they will eventually and just in very common garmin ah garden parlance like if you're growing roses. There's a chance you're going to get an aphid infection and if you get an aphith infection. You can deal with it by spraying it with harmful chemicals or you can release 3 or 4 ladybugs as you call them as them in America are ladybirds as we call them over here and ladybirds will take care of your if an infection and there is there's some debate as to whether or not you should try and source locally sourced ladybirds or use ladybirds from different regions again. But again, that's you know. That that's up to your own personal choice as you're going to do that. But I said if your option is releasing tree of the cutest little beetles that you've ever seen into your garden or spraying your roses with a very strong, harmful chemical I know which one I'd choose.\
\
46:11.86\
Jala\
Right? right? for sure. There's also been like something for controlling fire ants that I've read about and I have not tried as using nematotes and and putting those there in the nematodes will take care of your ants problem. So.\
\
46:24.33\
Ollie\
Um, wow.\
\
46:27.91\
Jala\
So yeah, um, there's different ways of of going about stuff like that. It takes some education though to do all of that. But it's out there. The the information is out there if you are a gardener and you want to do that kind of natural organic type of thing with your yard for sure. But yeah, it also it it would work in homes I don't know if I'm to the level of wanting to nurture a spider'st you know Spider's web somewhere in my house. But if there are spiders in my house. My family has always left them alone. My family is always like no you leave that spider alone because that spider eats these other things.\
\
47:01.29\
Jala\
We've always been like that. So I I'm fine with the spiders. They they can live.\
\
47:03.68\
Ollie\
We and not to harp on about how Ireland is the greatest country in the world. Um, but we don't have any venomous spiders so I have and if I see a spider in the highs here. Ah, in fact, there's no native spiders to Ireland that can actually break human skin with their fangs. So if I say a spider there's nothing to be afraid of it can't actually bite me so yeah in in most irish homes people will say a spider just show it away but they're not. Freaking out and worrying about their child getting bitten and possibly dying. So again it it depends on where you live and and also just to try out. We. We don't really have cockroaches over here either. They do exist and you can find them very rarely. But like you would I don't think I've ever heard about a house being infested with cockroaches. So just you know Ireland. Rock.\
\
47:55.87\
Jala\
Ah, well about spiders though. Um I do want to talk a little bit more about that as well since you mentioned venomous spiders so every year a large number of spider bites are reported around the world but actually nearly all of these cases. Are due to infections from resistant staphylicocus bacteria misdiagnosed by patients and doctors alike because the symptoms look similar so that's a thing and if you think you have a spider bite. Ask your doctor to test whether you have mmrsa and venom though about like there was a. Study done on black widow spiders and venom is expensive and spiders would rather run away than wasted on you so in this study 43 black widow spiders were tested to see how often they would bite an artificial finger poking at them even after 60 repeated pokes. The spiders refused to bite. They only bit when squished 3 times consecutively and only 60% of the spiders bit at all 40% of them got squish 3 times and we're like so nope nope not going to do it and um. Of the spiders that did bite only half of them used venom in their bite. So you know like it's a small number of spiders that are actually ever going to bite you general you know like in in general, they're just not. That's not their their gig. You know they don't want to waste it on you. They want to waste it on food.\
\
49:27.43\
Jala\
You know? So yeah.\
\
49:28.89\
Ollie\
I I blame this on arachnophobia um, which was both an entertaining movie and has ruined an entire generation of people to think that spider is going to kill you here's just an interesting fact because I didn't I hadn't actually read this little part of your notes about black widows. When when was the last person. Do you think who died from a black widow ba in the United States America what I was that's way word I thought you were going to guess I would have assumed it was very recently but I learned about that's it was about three weeks ago\
\
49:49.81\
Jala\
I don't know the 60 s.\
\
50:03.89\
Ollie\
1983 so you're talking that like 40 years since somebody has died from a black widow. But if you said to the average person name ah a spider that will kill you if it bites you.\
\
50:21.40\
Jala\
Right? Absolutely so.\
\
50:21.19\
Ollie\
And I guarantee you they will say a black widow because we're terrified I'm terrified them. They don't even live here and I'm terrified of them and still nobody's died from one in a country where they are one of the most prominent species of spiders and nobody's died from them in that country and.\
\
50:39.76\
Ollie\
40 years\
\
50:39.84\
Jala\
Right? So yeah, yeah, that's a thing to keep in mind. So yeah, ah let me see another study. Oh yeah, the shower head study. Lovely.\
\
50:54.72\
Jala\
So this is another way in which Ireland is better. So so we'll we'll get there. So another study was done on the bacteria build up in shower heads. So the long and short of it is ah urban american homes have less biodiverse populations of bacteria the stuff. That survived the water treatment plant where chlorine and other chemicals. Ah, you know were thrown in there like the stuff that is left over is mostly pathogenic and harmful. Ah, but again like this is pathogenic and harmful stuff.\
\
51:28.19\
Jala\
In some kind of quantity inside your shower head but then diluted into the water that passes over your body after that. So like you know, um, it's not super likely unless you have like so especially bad. Water. Ah that you are going to get sick from taking a shower in it right? But um, that's a thing. And Rural American homes where a well is being used and European homes where water is not treated and is derived usually from deep aquifers are more biodiverse and considerably less pathogenic and harmful. So um, why is that because there's a bunch of different types of bacteria in the water and again that kind of principle of there's a kind of you know competition for the resources in that that particular space and so like the good bacteria or the benign bacteria. Are holding the bad bacteria in check because the bad bacteria can be there but as long as it's not so massive in quantities that you know like it's taken over. That's really like what what you're looking at the balance of those things.\
\
52:34.20\
Ollie\
Yeah.\
\
52:35.62\
Jala\
And of course from a deep Aquifer It's been pushed underground for a longer amount of time and had a bunch of water seeped down over time. So it's got a bunch of different bacteria there that are you know a mixture of good and bad but there's more diversity and that means you know good things for you and your health.\
\
52:53.44\
Ollie\
Yeah, now just to just I need to admit that in Ireland we do actually still chlorinate our water. So even though even though we do use aquifers as well and it did the last stage will always be that taurine. We add about one third as much as the do to american water.\
\
53:13.60\
Ollie\
And we don't also see the other thing that americans put into their waters by is aluminium sulfate which is a floccul age and so they can take solids out beforehand and I I understand why because of where the water sources are and the size of the cities. It's important that the water gets recycled rather than. In Ireland it's a lot easier for us to take it from deep lakes and rivers for any of the cities like even if you take Dublin there are lakes single lakes twenty miles from the city that can provide water for the entire city whereas in Houston there is no lake that's going to exist large enough.\
\
53:50.42\
Ollie\
And deep enough to be able to do that. So yeah, it's a different situation. But yeah and and just 1 thing about even the shower heights now when it says that's patogenic and harmful. Just don't drink the water while you're having a shower like it's not going to cause you too much harm. You're washing your skin your skin.\
\
54:06.50\
Ollie\
Would not allow stuff to get in like your your body again has developed developed over million I was gonna say millions of years but a 100000 years or so to the point where it's very very good at keeping you safe. So you know it's when people put their head up to the faucet and go and open it by wide and then swallow what's in there.\
\
54:25.73\
Ollie\
Just don't be doing that you don't need to do that and there's plenty of water in your home. Hopefully that you don't need to be out there. Yeah so and yeah, but I know to study this particular study. It's 5 to 6 times more likely to have patogenic bacteria in an american shower head than it is in the european sore head which is. Incredible when you think about this.\
\
54:44.19\
Jala\
Right? right? and this is not like advocating for you changing your shower head because here's the the sad fact. Um the Bacteria build little houses in your shower head and so if you replace it. The bacteria will come back and they will just come back And. Do the same thing over again and it's not going to make that much of a difference one way or the other because that Buildup is going to happen and ah, you cannot be replacing your shower head at the rate at which that Bacteria is going to colonize so generally speaking like just don't drink it. That's it.\
\
55:13.29\
Ollie\
Yeah, you can notice it. Yeah, don't don't drink the water and if you read if you are worried about your shahead at all wash it out with vinegar and once a month and that will do a very good job of cleaning out any of the bacterial colonies are there.\
\
55:29.40\
Jala\
Right? right? like in my house I use like because I I try to use ingredients that I can pronounce in my house as much as possible Now there's there's some kind of ah back and forth going with my parents because my dad is very much the kill everything type.\
\
55:45.18\
Jala\
And so I just have to deal with that. But I have gotten him converted to Using. Um, basically we take a big bottle of white vinegar and we take a bunch of lemon peels after we juiced them and we stick all the lemon peels in there and leave it for a month and then we take the lemon peels out and it makes a lemon vinegar. Wonderful spray that can be used to clean anything just don't get it on your clothes and you're fine huh.\
\
56:08.80\
Ollie\
You're speaking my language. Yeah, ah, you're speaking my language I love making my own cleaners like that in the home and and if you want just ah, a very little tip if you buy an Aqua filter like a water filter and I'm not sure if.\
\
56:22.55\
Ollie\
Common over of states as but as they are over here to Britta filters. But if you buy a a brit of filter and you filter your vinegar through it. It'll remove most of the smell. So if you if you put in through just normal white mal vinegar and pass it through a brit of filter.\
\
56:31.16\
Jala\
Oh good to know.\
\
56:40.40\
Ollie\
It will remove the smell for about 2 hours so since it will have evaporated away off your surface after you've cleaned it in 2 hours time anyway. Especially if you're at \'c2\'b0 in your home then this there won't be that.\
\
56:50.95\
Jala\
Right.\
\
56:57.17\
Ollie\
Typical vinegar smell which is what usually puts people off from cleaning with vinegar so filter it first. Yeah now if you filter it and then leave it in the filter jug for 2 to 3 hours when you open the filter jug. It'll smell like vinegar again because what you're doing as it goes through the filter is you're you're taking the eye on to the but I'm getting into too much of the science here and it reiononizes itself. And and forms back into the vinegar so that's where you're going to get that smell so the britter filter will take it out and it still has the same acidity and it still has the same strength and it will still kill the bacteria. That's there and again it's not as as stringent as your homemade cleaners. So. It's not going to kill every single bacteria which as we're.\
\
57:34.47\
Jala\
Right? right? So like there's that's for me a happy medium place right? between the you know let go and let everything do whatever you know like I'm not I'm not saying don't clean, right.\
\
57:35.88\
Ollie\
Talk about is a good thing.\
\
57:46.60\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah.\
\
57:47.59\
Jala\
I'm saying you know, just find your your balance point right? and for me a lot of that is just you know trying to do like a lot of Diy which actually given how expensive everything is right now. It's such a good idea. Vinegar is not as expensive as buying a cleaner and you can have so much cleaner forever and ever from vinegar and lemons I mean you know and you don't even have to use the lemons just the vinegar by itself works too. But either way. So yeah, um.\
\
58:01.23\
Ollie\
It's a good idea.\
\
58:19.10\
Jala\
Moving right? along I do have another little thing about the house. So ah, studies were done on mold as relates to drywall. Unfortunately y'all fungi that make us sick and break down our houses lives dormant in drywall when it is manufactured and it is activated by moisture. So if your drywall gets wet and yes this means like if you live in Houston in a humid environment and then you take a a hot shower in your bathroom and you have drywall then that means that you are making an environment in which molds and different types of things will begin to populate and break down your house. So. Um, best practices are like if you can see any mold visible on your drywall. Well first off dry everything off like dry it out dry it out dry it out. Um, that's why like when we flood out here. The drywall is torn out completely and then replaced because you cannot keep that drywall. You know, um.\
\
59:13.78\
Ollie\
No no.\
\
59:15.95\
Jala\
But also like if you like dry it out if you have like a fan in your bathroom or even if you don't get a little little fan and turn it in there until the moisture goes away and is pushed out and dries out. Um, but also if you see mold and stuff showing up. You need to clean that surface to try to like. Kill off some of the bacteria just to keep it from overpopulating right and taking over completely. Um, before you need remediation because remediation is very expensive or you you might need to replace the drywall if it gets that bad but hopefully you're not leaving it for that long. So.\
\
59:53.91\
Ollie\
Yeah, if you see mold. It's bad start cleaning very very quickly and do not let it spread like even in Ireland um, it's usually a sign of damp. Um, and it's usually a sign that something's about to go really really wrong with your house. In fact, by the time you're seeing mold. Over here because we we have concrete built houses and brick built houses so rather than wooden built houses and drywall du so to be most ah can't imagine house that will have drywall in the walls even in the interior walls in an irish house. But if you're seeing mold on the walls over here. It's a very very bad sign. So. You need to start to fix it and the same thing is over there in the states like just clean it out as much as you can and dry it off every time it gets wet.\
\
01:00:34.27\
Jala\
Yeah, absolutely so those are just a few things about your house. So um, some kind of suggestions for for you know, keeping biodiversity up in your house. Ah, don't kill the spiders leave them alone as as long as you are able to tolerate their presence. Um, also ah try to use something like a vinegar solution or other like there's there's various types of diy natural ingredients. You can use for making cleaners and stuff that aren't going to be as intensive as the cleaners that you buy in a store. So um, they're super easy to make they're cheap. Ah, take a look at various ones online find one that works for you but vinegar is kind of like you know a tried and true mainstay. So um, your tip about the britta filter is awesome. Ollie so thank you for that. So um, there's that but then and dry out your drywall that kind of thing.\
\
01:01:20.46\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah, go.\
\
01:01:27.85\
Jala\
Open your windows more if you can like the problem with me at my house in opening the windows is ah again I live in an an exhaustingly hot and humid environment and my parents are sensitive to temperature and my dad has breathing problems. So like I cannot open my house I can open up my office. Because my office is a separate building but I cannot open up my house So I try to open up my windows in my office as much as I can to let in outside fresh outside air and um, you know, like kind of demystify it right? like that's that's kind of the idea of.\
\
01:02:01.73\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah.\
\
01:02:04.10\
Jala\
Opening your windows in the first place but you know also to kind of get like some flow of different types of life going in and out because um, the places that you live and sleep end up having a buildup of your particular bacterias and that can be fine. But that can also be like well There's no new bacteria is being introduced and colonized and so like you know you're going to benefit from that biodiversity of having more bacterias around you than not so instead of sealing off from the environments like I think one one study was finding that like. People these days spend about 90% of their time in a sealed environment that doesn't have any interaction with the outside world. So um, you know like try to go outside and go outside and walk around interact with nature if you have nature near you that you can interact with.\
\
01:02:54.13\
Ollie\
Um, yeah.\
\
01:02:58.27\
Ollie\
I never realized I'd be listening to Jala telling people to go out and touch grass. But.\
\
01:03:07.49\
Jala\
But well you know I'm allergic to grass and I will still go out and touch grass. So you know I am allergic to the grass here. So so and that's one of my stories. Um I will I will tell this story to everybody because this is super pertinent like this is part of the the whole thing that's interesting.\
\
01:03:11.39\
Ollie\
Are you allergic to grass.\
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01:03:24.69\
Jala\
So you all know or should know by this point that once upon a time I used to run Marathons ultra marathons did rocking events I was outside all the time constantly draining outside doing events outside spending a lot of time outdoors. Even though I have an inside job and all of that.\
\
01:03:31.57\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah.\
\
01:03:41.46\
Jala\
So ah, that was my situation for a long time I had had a long history of allergies and this that and the other I would always get sick every every um winter. Um, but but because like of of my allergies and everything which um, it would be bad allergies that turned into a sinus infection that turned into a head cold. And it was just kind of roll from there. So um, then I started going outside more and doing stuff outside and then like so my allergy still bothered me a little bit but they weren't really bad I didn't have to take anything for them. I didn't get too too itchy or anything like that and I became more tolerant of them. Because like when you go to a doctor you go to a dermatologist or whatever and you get allergy shots they are giving you low doses of the stuff you're allergic to so that your body gets used to them. That's basically what you're doing when you go out into nature and you're Outside. You're outside. Around the stuff and you're getting like low doses of it so that your body can get acclimated to it and then not have this Immuno response that it's it's having so um, part of the problem is that because we're not exposed to very many types of Bacteria or this that or the other.\
\
01:04:52.89\
Jala\
And because we clean everything to the point that everything that's left over is bad Bacteria. Our bodies respond to everything like it's a crisis. It doesn't know what's a good bacteria versus a bad bacteria because it doesn't have a lot of experience So like the more biodiversity you introduce to your body. The better. The the problem is a lot of it is best introduced when you're a small child. So um, it gets harder to introduce more biodiversity as you get older. It's not impossible but it takes more work to get there. So ah, we will dig into that a little bit more later, but.\
\
01:05:31.96\
Jala\
I was doing great on all of that didn't really get sick ever didn't really have allergies other people would get sick and I was Fine. You know and then Pandemic happened I went inside because. My parents are immunocompromised I was terrified of going to the trail and running around with other people on the trail and like getting something because you know there's not a lot of room on the walkway there. So like I would be.\
\
01:06:00.91\
Ollie\
Yeah, so you're going to breed on each other. Basically.\
\
01:06:03.78\
Jala\
Yeah I was worried about breathing and I know that like later on there were studies that said oh that's fine like you're You're not likely to get it if you're outdoors but that information wasn't there at the time so I went inside and and you know I did other.\
\
01:06:18.40\
Jala\
Types of training indoors I started doing bodybuilding and pole dance and stuff and I was happy and and whatever that's great, but my allergy started getting worse and I started getting head colds and all of this kind of stuff started to happen I got so bad that I I went to the you know dermatologist or the allergist's office I got. The test done I got allergy shots. They ended up not really doing me any good. Um I still to the day have an antihistamine. You know that I take it's over the counter but I have an antihistamine that I have to take um and it's this whole thing and why is that because I had a mask on. All the time because I was again first off like I was I was doing what we were told to do during pandemic to keep people from dying and being responsible but also even past that point I was still. Out of courtesy for immunocompromised folks whom I don't know like every stranger on the street. What their story is and if they are immunocompromised so I would still be wearing my mask long past the point where most other people stopped and I only stopped wearing my mask. After like long long after you know we were told we didn't have to anymore I only stopped wearing it because I kept getting so violently ill and I realized the big reason why is because I wasn't getting the exposure to the germs I wasn't getting exposure to.\
\
01:07:39.65\
Ollie\
Yeah, your regular germs. Yeah.\
\
01:07:42.17\
Jala\
Yeah, so to to everything I wasn't getting the exposure that I had before that was allowing me to you know, have more um you know resistance to bad bacterias and bad viruses and other types of pathogens and stuff and allergens and things like that. So. Yeah, um, that's part of my story so you know like I I can talk firsthand about like what happened when I didn't get that interaction with the outdoors and I didn't get the interaction.\
\
01:08:13.33\
Ollie\
That's fascinating Janet just to know that you' because we've known each other for years now often on chapter nine nine and stuff like this and you are always outrunning and always at rockoking and also just for the record rocking crazy sport but always out rooking and. Pictures of you on the trail and oh we went up. You know I'm up here I'm on the top of a mountain I'm on um x y and z and the think that a year in the inside or year plus inside that gott to the point where your body was now allergic to grass or pollen or any other number of allergens in the air is like it's that's genuinely. So interesting.\
\
01:08:51.42\
Jala\
Right? I can also give you another example. So um, remember how I was telling you about antibiotics. So ah I have historically always had really bad acne. Um, it's not so bad now that I'm older I still get breakouts and stuff. But it's not nearly to the degree. It used to be.\
\
01:09:07.77\
Jala\
But I have been on various types of treatments for acne for years and years and years and years and years and um, at 1 point, the dermatologist I was seeing had me on minocycline which is an antibiotic for a full year and that.\
\
01:09:21.64\
Ollie\
Um, yeah, woo.\
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01:09:24.28\
Jala\
Messed up my gut bacteria and I have been trying to repopulate my gut ever since and so I had a a several different other types of complications that came up as a result of that now this was several years ago now but um I would get. Uti infections yeast infections different things like that and these are all common things um gastrointestinal like ah like I would have distress gi distress stuff like that all of these things are very common things that happen after you have ah like a round of antibiotics. Let alone a year of antibiotics so um I have ever since. Been taking lots and lots of probiotics and prebiotics and trying to eat fermented foods and eat fresh foods as best I can you know like make everything from scratch that I'm able to. And get stuff like grow stuff in my own garden or get it from the farmer's market if I'm able. It's not something everybody is going to be able to afford to do but or have time or space to do. But you know I've been doing this in this effort to fix what the the medicine given to me did to me.\
\
01:10:20.31\
Ollie\
Yeah, of course. Yeah.\
\
01:10:29.48\
Jala\
So you know that's why I mentioned like you know I'm not saying don't take antibiotics I'm just saying antibiotics. Okay, so I forget the numbers exactly I think it's something like 60% of physicians. If they have the perception and of course they do in America because everybody wants a prescription when they go to the doctor over here. Um, if they have the anticipation that the patient or the the parent of the child or whatever. Ah, is expecting a prescription. They will prescribe an antibiotic without testing to see what's wrong and you know even if it's not necessary and something that I actually in all of you might think this is nonsense I did not realize that.\
\
01:11:18.20\
Jala\
Your body can just fight off the bacterial infection without you you know, like advancing into you know like it morphing into more and more bad things until you die I really thought and this is probably because I also have Uncles who were doctors who would always prescribe us medicines whenever we needed them when I was growing Up. Um. And so we were always taking stuff whenever we got sick but like but like I didn't realize that your body can fight off a lot of bacterial infections. Not everything and yes, you'll feel like shit for a while. But ah if you up your.\
\
01:11:40.44\
Ollie\
Of course.\
\
01:11:52.81\
Jala\
You know probiotics prebiotics and eat better foods and this that and the other your body can actually fight that off on its own in most cases now. Um, obviously if it gets worse then yes, go to the doctor and get your antibiotics. You know that kind of thing but you know try to take like a um. A narrower spectrum antibiotic that is specifically targeted at whatever thing is actually Infecting. You have test done to see what is infecting you you know and and get something um of a narrower. Ah you know, ah efficacy for that.\
\
01:12:28.69\
Ollie\
Yeah, so again, as as a person living in. She's not living in the states that we have um national health care. So so let's I'll just give it the example of talking about my son so when my son was was two years old\
\
01:12:44.66\
Ollie\
Got very sick and he ended up getting blood poisoning and that was just complete cock up by the hospital. Um and he was you know he was on. He was on the process of dying like his body was just breaking dying and it was. It's still very hard to talk about it eight years later and like to know what you're sitting there. There's literally nothing and you can do and you're you're at the behest of waiting for a bacterial infection to to maybe kill him or for an antibiotic to to say and we had to go through the entire spectrum we were up at the point where you don't it doesn't get stronger than what he was about to get put onto and they warned us that this could.\
\
01:13:23.28\
Ollie\
Lead to deafness. It could lead to lung problems which it did it could lead to stomach issues. It took so yes, it saved his life and tank guard it did but it took 5 years for him to get back to the level. He was physically ah like as in so we'd have to bring him in for regular checks.\
\
01:13:42.55\
Ollie\
To get his gut checked to see if he had the right, but so he was constantly on probiotic etc. But in relation to your body being able to find out Don had a very serious infection. He needed to have that. But.\
\
01:13:54.97\
Ollie\
People will run into a doctor and they' say and I mean I showed you a little video the other day which was on irish tv in the 80 s trying to point out to people that antibiotics don't cure everything they're not a curre old. They're not pania and. People would literally go into the doctor and go doctor can I have a prescription asking for a prescription when they've got a broken toll asking for a prescription when got if you have a colder flu an antibiotic is going to do didly squat to you because antibaotics kill bacteria. They don't kill viruses. They don't.\
\
01:14:31.85\
Ollie\
They they literally have 0 effect on it. So a cold is caused by a virus. So if you're feeling under the wet or you think everybody else has got a cold and that beologist is not going to do anything to the cold. It's not going to help you at all and people thought for a while that maybe there's some sort of placebo effect but the problem is that if you're going in for the placebo effect of oh you know I'm taking the little pill. The doctor gave me. But if that pill is actually an antibiotic what you're doing then is taking the course of antibiotics and killing off other bacteria that are already in your body because as you said the broad spectrum and they're just killing things. The other issue came from people who would get. Fourteen days worth of antibolics. So to you know I take a pill in the morning take a pill at nighttime before you're in bed and they would then get 28 pills in the bottle and that was the standard form in irish medicine standard form in american medicine as well. I believe right was two weeks worth of the antibolics and what would happen is.\
\
01:15:29.21\
Ollie\
You get a cold and even the flu you will feel better after 5 to 6 days so when people no longer feel the symptoms they stop taking the antibolic and then what happens is any of the remaining.\
\
01:15:46.50\
Ollie\
Virus or bacteria that was in there so say it was a bacterial infection. The ones that are still alive are the ones which were resistant and developing a resistance to the antibacteria or the um antibiotic you were taking. And that's what leads to getting these super strong mrsa style bugs. So yeah, if you're feeling ill you don't have to run in and get a prescription straight away and again it was it became a serious issue over here because I can go down and get a course of antibiotics from the doctor. Down to the chemist and pick them up for three Euros so $4 and that'll get me two weeks word of Medicine the equivalent amount of medicine and states iss probably going to cost me $200 without insurance or whatever it this I mean even the idea of needing private medical insurance just doesn't make any sense to an irish person because.\
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01:16:34.78\
Jala\
It doesn't make sense to us either. We hate it. So yeah.\
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01:16:39.76\
Ollie\
Oh yes I know who you guys said it. But I mean just cut when you when you've grown up and lived where as I said I fell off a roof because it was an idiot once and broke 3 or four bones went had them said had x-rays had everything done. Was out had an ambulance drive me to the hospital pick me up drive me to the hospital. Get all of my bones set x-rays and all of them had an mri done came out and the entire trip cost me one hundred Euros yeah\
\
01:17:09.00\
Jala\
Yeah, so my my uncle was recently in the icu because he has various things wrong with him mostly in this case was his heart and he had a whole trip to the icu he was there for a while. Even with his really good insurance from being a veteran his medical bills were half a million dollars so\
\
01:17:34.60\
Ollie\
Yeah, and and that's what leads to people thinking that they're paying to get fixed because when you're if you go to a pharmacist and the medicine they give you is $400 it's hard. Not to convince yourself that well it's $100 it's definitely going to work or it's definitely needed because why would I have paid paid $400 if it wasn't yeah and it's it's spurious and needless prescriptions of antibiotics are not going to have or help anybody. So yeah, as ja said if you're feeling a little bit under the wetter. See if your body can deal with it it on its own before running into the doctor to try and get something which 60% of the time won't help.\
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01:18:18.50\
Jala\
Yeah, yeah for sure and definitely part of that is try to get some some fresh foods some whole foods not processed things and try to get some probiotics prebiotics fermented foods those kinds of things. So.\
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01:18:34.23\
Ollie\
And lots of water.\
\
01:18:36.62\
Jala\
And lots and lots and lots of water filtered water. Not not tap water. So yeah, um, let's move on and talk about pets So I love pets too and pets They love us and they they do good and bad things.\
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01:18:40.57\
Ollie\
Now Cover. My favorite thing I Love them.\
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01:18:54.48\
Ollie\
You know.\
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01:18:55.19\
Jala\
Or can possibly do ah bad things and also do good things. Let's put it that way. So yeah, um, they give us beneficial microbes but they also can potentially provide harmful things as Well. So For example, cat feces contain the parasite toxop. Plasma gondii and yeah cats put their butt on everything everything in your house I am not a cat person. Ah generally speaking like my family has had cats a few times but they've mostly been outside cats which that's cool. Be outside cat you know him we. We will talk when you decide to come over for food, you know and I will love you up and then you can go on your way. Great Cool I don't want to change a litter box. Great ah that that works out for me because I'm less likely to have Toxoplasma gondii and so yeah, Ah, once you've been infected once.\
\
01:19:51.91\
Jala\
It affects you forever forever? Um, so yeah, and it's also really important to know that if you are a pregnant person ah or whatever like if you know someone who is a pregnant person with a cat.\
\
01:20:07.16\
Jala\
Ah, that they need to stay away from that litter box Absolutely because um, if they happen to get exposed to Toxoplasma gondii The fetus doesn't have any kind of resistance whatsoever to it. It can actually cause mental retardation Deafness seizures retinal damage. Stuff like that and in non-fetuses you know a I E older folks. Ah the parasite has been found to increase risk taking behaviors making those infected less risk averse. Ah, this was it also can increase the risk of developing Schizophrenia. There's actually like a data on that that's been studied So um, about the risk taking behaviors thing So studies were done on Mice. And you know infecting them with Toxoplasma gondii and then exposing them to a cat and seeing what they do and you know, ah the mice that were infected with the Toxoplasma gondii by far would like basically just run right up to the cat and basically invite more or less invite the cat to eat it right.\
\
01:21:12.60\
Ollie\
Yeah, yeah.\
\
01:21:13.52\
Jala\
Ah, whereas the non-infected mice would run away like the the natural reaction of going away from the cat now. The reason for this when it comes to the biology of Toxoplasma gondii is that the virus can't or the the bacteria rather can parasite whatever it is. Ah, the parasite. The thing pathogen. Yeah, it can ah start its process of of living on its own like in other other types of beings like humans and mice and things like that. But it's reproduction if I'm not mistaken is what happens inside a cat's. Gut and that's the only place that it can happen. So if it infects a mouse and then makes the mouse go towards the cat as its new behavior then that will basically ah set it up for being able to reproduce Better. So That's how it ended up. Beginning is is That's the theory that scientists have as to like the beginning of this risk taking correlation that happens then um, there was a scientist who also was studying this and looking at himself. And looking at other people and testing to see if they had ever been infected by Toxoplasma gondii and looking at their behaviors. Their risk-taking behaviors and things like that using different means of um, checking like Surveys and stuff within um, his own direct community his own staff at his university that he was at.\
\
01:22:43.29\
Jala\
But then also um I think there was also a military study done as well and they found that there was a high correlation between the 2 of someone having the infection and then someone also having these risk taking behaviors. So um. You know that's an interesting correlation. There's also like I said different stuff schizophrenia different bad things can happen to a fetus if someone happens to be pregnant and getting you know, getting in contact with that. So um, yeah, that's ah, a big concern but that's. The primary thing to be concerned about with a cat. Yeah depends on the cats. Some cats are really really sweet and loving and some cats are um, not we'll just say not.\
\
01:23:18.97\
Ollie\
Well that and them getting the evil eye on you but a because as we know.\
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01:23:31.35\
Ollie\
Just in in relation to the yeah to the so to the research done the humans that had them I call it toxoplasmosis because it's just easier to say than the the Gandhi I bit and so toxoplasmosis and one of the tests was done. Um. Using games of chance. So anything that would cause you to have an increase in adrenaline. So in most animals that's fear. So and what they were saying was that the mice were experiencing fear and the toxoplasmosis affected ones would go towards the thing that was causing them fear. Right? And in which case would be cats which humans they find that so part of his big study was that he had them playing roulette and he had it set up so that they would win maybe 2 editor for 3 spins and then. Would have the opportunity to let it ride or to take their winnings and he found that the people who had toxoplasmosis were I think it was is it twice as likely to let it ride and just go bet at all on black or bettered all in red or whatever it happens to be and go for 1 extra spin.\
\
01:24:47.13\
Ollie\
So Just the effect of having had a cat sit on your lap. You petted it a little a couple of times and then you ate a sandwich will increase your chances of making what most people would consider a foolish bet on a card game or put your money on the horses. It's been linked to people who have ah gambling addictions that it's more likely for them to have Toxoplasmosis. So I It's It's such a strange thing. But even again, we we met true video games True your your stuff on the level. One of my favorite podcasts and you but.\
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01:25:24.83\
Ollie\
1 of the the most famous games in the last fifteen years is the last of us which is talking about um a fungal infection. Cordyceps cordyceps is a real thing so cordyceps is ah a fun guide that can infect ants and grasshoppers and can control their bodies.\
\
01:25:43.34\
Ollie\
To do whatever they want and again it's it's not like puppeting them and making a move but it would put them into positions where it can spread the cordyceps like so bacteria and by I mean it's very funny that we're talking about this. 2 minutes after saying well you don't worry about the olactic bacteriaials like could be grand like like use use vinegar keyards but like some of these some of the ways that these things have evolved over as said they a generation of a bacteria is 20 minutes so a generation of a fungus could be two days right so they are able to evolve through stages so much faster than humans where a generation is considered to be somewhere in the region of 16 years It used to be 16 years now. It's around about 21 years but there this idea that a generation can happen over the course of you could go through 5 generations in a week\
\
01:26:40.19\
Ollie\
Um, and and a bacteria you can go through 72 generations in a day so they are evolving way way faster than we ever will and they're reaching and and they're capable of doing things that we know we can't even imagine like it like it would blow your mind when you do this? Yeah so all of this stuff is.\
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01:26:59.34\
Ollie\
Genuinely find the fascinating. \
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01:27:00.50\
Jala\
Well, we will definitely I have more to say about how Bacteria control us. Um, let me finish up wrap up pets real quick and talk about dogs. That's not going to incite too much discussion I don't think but um. Then we'll go ah and I'll I'll circle back to this point. So um, having a dog because cats and dogs are the most common ah critters to have in your house So having a dog tends to lead to a reduction reduction of allergies. Ah. Eczema and Dermatitis but dogs can also possibly give you tape worms Ringw Worms Heart worms and how do they do that they lick their butt and then they lick you and then if you don't wash properly then you will possibly get that if they happen to have any of those worms. So You can get some kind of worms from your dog. But honestly between the two if it's like do I get a worm or do I get this risk taking thing that's going to affect me for literally the rest of my life. You know, Ah, there's there's there's choices to be made there. But um.\
\
01:28:08.18\
Jala\
But but the thing is you know everybody's got their thing. Everybody's got their their love of their pet and as long as you you are very careful with the litter box and you know washing your hands and stuff around your pets when it comes to getting the bad bacterias off of the places that they are most important to get them off of then you should be okay. But ah pets do also they give all these other benefits. They give you the companionship and the love and the beneficial microbes that they bring in especially if you have a critter that's outdoors and then they come and rub up on you and then they're bringing all of that outside with them right? So um, that's all stuff to consider. So ask for how different bacteria will affect you and drive you some of the stuff I've been reading about the body and I know I said that this is not going to be like the body episode we will dig into it even more than this. We still have some time we're still going to talk about bodies on this episode. But um. Some of the stuff that I've read about is for example, ah, did you know that and I know you know probably Ali because you know you're your science person. But um, yeah, and also you have notes but um and I also sent you lots and lots of pages from my books. Yeah, well ah, did you know.\
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01:29:17.40\
Ollie\
I'm reading the notes.\
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01:29:22.92\
Ollie\
That's what mean I'm reading your notes. That's why that's how I know.\
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01:29:26.78\
Jala\
Listeners. Ah that Bacteria can turn your genes on and off so you might have a gene in your body that will possibly give you diabetes and your bacterial cultures inside of your body and your environment. We'll determine whether that gets turned on or not.\
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01:29:48.96\
Ollie\
Um, it's crazy.\
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01:29:51.33\
Jala\
Another thing you know how people have sugar cravings all the time. Ah so did you know Ali that sugar cravings are caused by particular strains of bacteria in your gut that love sugar that actually happen to be bad bacteria.\
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01:29:54.68\
Ollie\
I do.\
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01:30:08.24\
Jala\
And um, those bad Bacteria are what are generating those cravings for the processed sugar and so if you reduce sugar out of your diet. Those bad Bacterias will go away but in the meantime if you have a big population of them in your gut. That's why it's incredibly hard to give up. Sugar. It's because your bacteria inside your body are telling you that you want sugar. So. It's a big part of it actually. So. So yeah, that's a thing that's interesting to know about. But yeah I'd like um.\
\
01:30:32.98\
Ollie\
Oh so it's the bacteria that's been doing this.\
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01:30:44.42\
Jala\
Other stuff that I've read like way further back that is not fresh in my mind ah has had some kind of similar um information in it like the bacteria like your gut Biome really has so much to do with like. Your moods and whether you have depression and anxiety issues and things like that. Um it actually has even been linked to some degree to stuff like autism and things like that like um, it affects a lot more than we realize and you know how how well those. Connections are at this point I don't know like how how strong those connections are at this point I do not know I don't know if they're correlative or if it is just a single study. What the the conditions are and all of that is this you know, um, you know, like any of that like I don't know. All the specifics because again this is like from stuff I've read a while back but um, things to think about when it comes to microbiomes and your body and opening your windows and going outside.\
\
01:31:49.80\
Ollie\
Yeah, it's it's true like just ah, you mentioned a sugar thing so there's a couple of things that that popped into my head as you were as you were talking so one you mentioned earlier on about somebody coming from India over to american to not use to the food and that a lot of um. Indian immigrants were discovered that that they were developing yeast infections and they didn't understand where they were getting yeast infection from because a yeast infection is you know it's a very personal thing and it's it's something that you wouldn't expect like a uti infection and a yeast infection where they would never have had 1 before.\
\
01:32:27.19\
Ollie\
Um, or never had had a ah large one before and it turned out that it was the increased sugar content in bread that was actually leading towards this so they did grown up in bread very similar to probably what I'm eating over here in Ireland and then when you go over to states. they're they're buying\
\
01:32:43.70\
Ollie\
Right? off the shelf which tends to be sweeter and tends to have higher sugar content even pizza dough would tend to have higher sugar content over in the states than it would over in Ireland or italy definitely done a little over italy but it's very very savory. Um, so yeah, so something like the sugar content can lead to a yeast infection in your body and then. You were mentioning the gut bacteria and sugar and how it can create cravings. So there's been studies done about diet sodas I nearly said diet pepsi there but we try to avoid drinking stuff that tastes like pis. So let's just say that we're having a good old coke zero the the king of all so this and a coke zero. Um, contains no sugar. But so it's got aspartoy which is a part of me or askassu for me if you happen to be drinking Pepsi so as sparto me in the sulllf for me they ape sugars in your body they and so to your tongue they tastes like that and your body starts to react to them like they are sugars. And the bacteria in your stomach will start to react to them like they are sugars your liver reacts to them like they are sugars but they're not and it can lead to your liver getting confused and your liver creating and turning them into alcohol which is not good and can damage your liver not anywhere near as much as real alcohol was and I just want. And I'm not saying that you should stay off soda because it leads to liver problems. It doesn't really, but it can have the same effect as alcohol does on your liver but your stomach bacteria will go into overdrive looking for the sugar that your body has convinced. It. It just gave them.\
\
01:34:17.72\
Ollie\
So the bacteria will start making you crave sugar more so there have been studies that show that if you drink a diet soda. Ah people people who are reliant on diet soda as their soda of choice or their drink a choice are more likely to then pick up a sweet treat.\
\
01:34:31.81\
Jala\
well and then two yeah well and then 2 another thing to note about the sugar artificial sweeteners stuff so artificial sweeteners also tend to generate gi distress and I'm not going to break down all of that. But.\
\
01:34:35.90\
Ollie\
After the fact.\
\
01:34:50.00\
Jala\
Ah, it also leads to having more stomach problems in General. Ah, even if it's you know, like if it's just one here or there you might have some some extra rumblies in your tumbly. But like if you chronically drink things or eat things that have sugar replacement in it then you will. Probably have like ongoing digestive issues.\
\
01:35:15.29\
Ollie\
Indigestion or diarrhea.\
\
01:35:15.79\
Jala\
Yep yep yep and a lot of those artificial sweeteners like if you buy a box of them I think a lot of them at least over here have warnings or at 1 point they did have warnings I don't know I don't buy artificial sweeteners so I wouldn't know but um, like that they had warnings at some point that would. You on the box like don't ingest a whole lot of this or else you're going to have some stomach problems. So.\
\
01:35:40.16\
Ollie\
I Tried to eat a kdarel when I was a little kid just like I saw somebody but I think it was my aunt who had them because she wasn't allowed to tick sugar for some reason and I looked it was old little sweeties I remember pulling like pull it out. It was on my hand they snuck off and then pull it in my mouth. And from that day forward I've never taken an artificial sweetheart beyond the stuff that I would get in a soda. Um because it tastes rank like um it it might do the same effect if you put it into your tea to sweeten your tea but just tasting it on its own.\
\
01:36:16.76\
Ollie\
It doesn't really taste sweet. It just tastes of chemical.\
\
01:36:19.56\
Jala\
And I'm so glad you said that because when I started like long long ago when I started to change my way of eating and my lifestyle and all of that. Um, when all of that first started. I had switched over and I started eating whole foods cooked everything at home this that and the other cut out a bunch of stuff and then like every once in a while because like in your mind your mind will think um this thing tastes really good and your mouth will water and you'll anticipate it being great. And then like what I found a lot of times is I would then eat the processed food. But then when I ate it. It didn't taste nearly as good as I remembered it tasting and um also like I could taste chemicals in almost everything that I ate.\
\
01:37:05.55\
Jala\
Because I was so far removed from eating the processed foods that I could taste Oh. There's a lot of X oil in this where there's There's definitely this artificial sweetener and it just tastes like a chemical this tastes terrible you know and this kind of stuff. So. Um, that was another thing that happened to me in the past when I had cut out processed sugars and I cut out a lot of that stuff. Um, you know and I was like baking my own bread at home. So It didn't have salt or sugar in it and it was whatever you know like I was doing so much of it on my own that like. I Just it didn't even taste like food anymore I didn't want it. You know and then people are like don't you Miss X and I'm like no, why would I that tastes terrible. Ah.\
\
01:37:45.50\
Ollie\
Um, yeah, Oh yeah, it's It's the same concept as ah, have if you like if you get used to eating regular bananas which you know one of my favorite fruits. Fake Banana flavor. So bad.\
\
01:38:02.41\
Jala\
Oh my god I cannot I cannot have fake banana flavor. Also Ollie um I will tell you I have been into a whole thing of eating different types of bananas. So the primary type of banana him now to get into some of the food stuff which there's going to be an episode on food too.\
\
01:38:19.67\
Jala\
You You can look forward to that. Um, anyway, the primary so type of banana the species of banana that is sold in supermarkets Worldwide is the cavendish banana and it's made because it's sweet. It has little teeny tiny seeds that almost don't even show up anymore.\
\
01:38:38.38\
Jala\
And everything. But it's all just cloned plants of the same thing. So. It's just a monoculture out there of just this one type of banana and there is a place online that you can get different types of organic rare types of fruit. There's lots and lots of places like this but there's this one particular one Miami fruit. And they do a thing where every once in a while they'll be like free box of bananas. You know you just pay for the shipping and we'll mail you some some bananas and it'll be several different varieties of different bananas that you don't get a hold of in a regular store and so like Dave and I have tried all these different types of bananas and some of them.\
\
01:39:11.60\
Ollie\
Yeah.\
\
01:39:17.75\
Jala\
Are like so creamy. They taste like ice cream. It's just amazing and um, it also caused us to totally switch from the cavendish bananas to going to the local asian market. And getting like thai bananas because the thai bananas are are a little bit creamier. They're not as good as whatever that particular ah 1 was in the banana box that we got but um, you know like there are some really great fruits out there that you just can't find in a regular grocery store and I I wish there were.\
\
01:39:50.33\
Jala\
More accessible ways of of obtaining these you know because like all the I don't I don't imagine that you have a whole lot of variety of ah tropical fruits up there. Ah.\
\
01:40:00.61\
Ollie\
Know you? Well you you can get just about everything you want right? Um, so for example, if like if even if I walk down to look a supermarket which again it's Ireland so it's called aor la it's called superval so I go into super value which is. You know there's 300 of them in the country and I can buy a star fruit I can buy a dragon fruit I can buy any number of fruits kiwis whatever it is you want? they'll be available but they will all be the standard version. So if I look for a banana. It will be the cavendish to chiquita banana.\
\
01:40:36.39\
Ollie\
If I look for a pear. It'll be a conference pear right? because they are the standard pears the same thing with oranges. They'll be Sevilla oranges because that's just the most common for for the common form of naval orange and in Europe is the Seville orange. So.\
\
01:40:54.48\
Ollie\
You're not going to get you can get each of the different fruits. But you're not getting the real varieties. You're just getting the mass produced varieties of them whereas if I wanted to go look for an Apple which is a fruit which grows in Ireland in great regularity. There are 40 different types. Yeah.\
\
01:41:14.15\
Ollie\
If I want to get a potato the natural vegetable or national tuber I would be able to get 30 different types of potatoes and that's I said but I would be only to get 1 type of banana. But I I was saying to you before I'm I'm quite extensively traveled or whatever due to my privileged lifestyle and when. I was first traveling through South America eating a banana from a market in just outside a rio like in a little town and having your mind blown because it was the tastiest thing you've ever had.\
\
01:41:44.45\
Jala\
Yeah, well and and part of that might also be the quality of the soil. So when you have in this this is kind of again going into the monocultures is talking about agriculture stuff. But it's all biodiversity. It all. Ah it has to do with. Flavor which we're going to talk about on an episode but also like the production and a bunch of other things. Um, so when you plant monocultures you are wiping out vast swaths of biodiversity and. Planting just 1 thing oftentimes a clone or a Gmo or something like that and we'll we'll get into those things too next time but you know you're planting things like that and wiping out the biodiversity and. Then leaching the soil because what happens the same crop is planted there and planted there and planted there and planted there until there's nothing left.\
\
01:42:42.51\
Ollie\
Um, yeah, everything gets removed from the soil. So everything becomes lower quality.\
\
01:42:50.32\
Jala\
So ah, something that I read today actually was that we are the first generation of folks who actually are expected to live longer than our children because of. A lot of different factors climate change stress levels. Ah the the ongoing issues with the shrinking of biodiversity and any number of other things going on. So. That's pretty wild now. That's not like just because that's the expectation. That's the calculation doesn't mean that that's going to necessarily be the reality it depends on you know what? Ah all of us are able to do and what policy makers are able to do ah right now the kind of world climate of of. Policy and in politics looks pretty grim. But um, you know who knows what the future holds. So um I did want to go into talking a little bit about our bodies and some of the stuff about microbiomes before we wrap for today. So.\
\
01:43:56.84\
Jala\
Residing permanently in a single place as I mentioned before allows body microbes to build up on our skin and in the places that we live So that means we have unique microbial environments within our home but that also means again like unless you have. A bunch of other people coming in and out or you open up your windows or you have a pet or whatever like you're not introducing any new stuff to the environment to potentially challenge anything negative. That's that's currently existing because if a negative ah pathogenic thing comes into the house. The likelihood. That it's going to be able to populate is pretty low if you have a big biodiversity in your house. So It's protective for you to have that So as we as a species live our lives more and more indoors away from biodiversity as a whole and continue to kill off so many species that we find. We are finding an increase in illness and disease allergies and other conditions like asthma. So yeah, it's a well-documented scientific literature that humans feel better when they interact with the natural world regularly. So in addition to physical aches. There's also mental and emotional aches.\
\
01:45:10.87\
Jala\
From this absence and this severing and this kind of like turning into a pod.\
\
01:45:16.59\
Ollie\
It it's but it's it's just ah, tons of anecdotal evidence for this beyond going into scientific things like you you used to go rocking used to go running and hopefully you you're back doing it a little bit. But if you've ever taken a friend with you. Walk and I don't think I've ever done it I'm not just saying because I have such a sparkling personality but I've never taken a friend out for a walk who was feeling down that when we finished up at the end of the walk. They didn't feel at least slightly better from having been out in the air being out. Amongst the trees because like again Ireland's a very beautiful country. So the chances are you're going to be walking trigger woodds you're gonna be walking like if you're not in a ward. You're at a beach like those are your 2 options here and when you walk through either of those places you're either getting the sea air. You're getting the natural smell of the wood. And that's just smelling the moss and you're getting all the the leaves. Even the sounds are just fantastic. I mean I mean I'm thinking about going for a walk right now when it's quarter past twelve at nighttime and just the idea of it and anytime I've brought a friend out who was feeling it bit down. They always felt better at the end of it. And they'll always say straight out like you know actually I feel a lot better and you can always tell when somebody's telling the truth or lying about that. You know if somebody goes yeah feel a lot better. You know they're full of crap. But if somebody's like yeah actually I feel I feel much better after going for a walk and even if you ever feel down yourself if you just take yourself out at the house and go for a walk. You almost always feel better.\
\
01:46:47.63\
Ollie\
And it's that reconnection with the world around you and reconnection with nature so important for us and it's not just the biodiversity that you get involved in.. It's just that That's that's how you're meant to be So. Yeah I think I think it's super important to be able to. To have that change of atmosphere not be indoors all the time get out, get some fresh air. Get some nature into you.\
\
01:47:09.28\
Jala\
Absolutely and 1 thing that I will say is that when Dave and I take our moai class. It's at a buddhist temple and of course there's like a lot of trees and and different. You know stuff around us as well out there but we love training outdoors for that. And we set up a little canopy in our yard. So we can also train regardless of the weather. You know we can train here at the house using the punching bag and stuff or of course we can go to the local park. So yeah, so.\
\
01:47:39.75\
Ollie\
Yeah, brilliant.\
\
01:47:43.44\
Jala\
A study was done on Correians on the finnish and Russian sides of the border people of the same descent living in different conditions. So The finnish folks were more urbanized and sealed off from nature did not garden or spend time in Nature. The Russian side spent more time outdoors and more open homes. With a greater diversity of Native Native plants in their gardens and they didn't have any allergies but the ah finnish folks. The finnish correllians had rampant rampant allergies. So again, it's It's kind of ah that relates to the story I told about I was out in nature doing a bunch of stuff. And then because I was around native wildlife and things like that and you know just out and about then I didn't get sick as often and I didn't have the allergies the way that they came full force and and stuff like that. So another study was done on amish and hutterite folks.\
\
01:48:39.50\
Jala\
And the primary differences between these groups is that hutterites practice industrial agriculture using tractors pesticides monocultures or limited numbers of crops and amish kids are raising. Are raised helping with the horses and other farm animals. They directly work in the soil and the fields are full of diverse plant life. So Additionally Amish homes are very close to their barns where hutterites have a great distance between their home and their barn So in this study as Well. Hutterites had more allergies and got sicker more often than the amish did and of course the hutterites were still better off than the average Urban American because they had some degree of exposure So A follow-up study was done using the dust from hutterite and amish homes. 1 group of mice with egg allergies were bred and had egg protein and hutterite dust sprayed up their noses and another group with the same allergy had egg protein and amish dust sprayed up their noses and the hutterite group had an allergic reaction and the amish group recovered. Actually feeling better seemed to feel better almost as if they were cured of their allergy and and that that correlates to again like to my experience like I had allergies. Real bad allergies as a kid and um, you know like the reason part of the reason for that and this is um.\
\
01:49:54.61\
Ollie\
That's incredible.\
\
01:50:07.30\
Jala\
Something That's that's ah you know, backed up by science is that when I was a baby although I you know was born like without a c-section I was born Naturally vaginal Birth. Um, although that was the case I was allergic to my mom's milk. So I got soy formula now. Everything you read will tell you that Mom's milk has important microbial Microbiome You know stuff going on like you are inheriting your mom's microbiome when you drink Mom's milk. So.\
\
01:50:42.50\
Ollie\
Near tridda colostrum. Yeah.\
\
01:50:44.88\
Jala\
Ah, and so ah, when I did not get that milk I was sicker more often than my sister who was not allergic to breast milk. So you know I I got sick more often I had allergies more than my sister did and part of the reason for that is because my microbiome and stuff. Was not built up the same way. Even though we lived in the same house and we did all bunch of the same stuff and this that and the other you know we're around each other all the time. But um I I missed out on building that that kind of ah yeah, yeah, So so yeah.\
\
01:51:16.65\
Ollie\
That early barriers. Yeah.\
\
01:51:21.89\
Jala\
And then like when I went outside I managed to cure myself of my allergies for the most part like I might get ah a runny nose or a stuffy nose every once in a while but you know like it wasn't too bad when I was doing all that stuff outdoors and then like I got right back to being sick again when I took myself out of that environment and. Got sealed off and was wearing a mask and and really filtering everything out. So so yeah, um, interesting Stuff. So Oh oh oh now here's here's the stuff about so the babies that I was telling you about the um, Mrsa Ollie so.\
\
01:51:57.42\
Jala\
A study was done on babies in a specific nursing Ward. It was found that babies handled by a particular nurse kept getting sick and then so she was let go studies on her skin ah revealed that she had harmful bacterial colonies on her skin that she was Immune to because she had beneficial colonies also popularized. You know. Populating her skin but the babies didn't have that beneficial bacteria colonized on them yet. So they kept getting Sick So hatilah theorized that illness was not caused by pathogens so much as by the absence of microbial species needed to prevent. The sickness.\
\
01:52:36.48\
Ollie\
Yeah, so the babies didn't have anything to fight off what she had on our skin. So for her. She was perfectly fine normal and then every time she held the baby The baby got a bacterial infection and had no way to fight it off like that's. Again, There's no way for you to There's no way for you to predict that there's no way for you to take that into account before you take your job as a nurse work and in the Nicu like it's I feel sorry for the for the nurse involved and for obviously for the babies.\
\
01:53:06.11\
Jala\
Um, absolutely so Echcon Wald in schinefield conducted a study during an epidemic that and but epidemic there was an epidemic specifically with Mrsa in american hospitals I believe ah and so. They introduced newborns to a specific beneficial strain of staphylococccus because there are good strains folks ah in order to ward off an infectious strain that was running rampant. You know? and ah so the babies who received this exposure to the beneficial bacteria. Ended up having a greater resistance to the pathogen I think it was something like 80% of the babies who were given this beneficial bacteria ended up not getting sick at all. So.\
\
01:53:55.58\
Ollie\
Yeah, so.\
\
01:53:57.10\
Jala\
Ah, Rob Dunn the the author of never never home alone referred to it as gardening the body by allowing colonies of beneficial microbes to grow and ward off harmful microbes. So in adults, this procedure is trickier because. Adults already have microbiomes growing on their skin and in their gut and everywhere else whereas a baby you know baby is fresh. You know, ah so antibiotics actually can be used to kill off as much of the bacteria.\
\
01:54:33.33\
Jala\
As possible first before introducing beneficial strains. However, again that kind of then depletes your entire biodiversity. So unless you're bringing back a whole garden full of microbes. You know like you're not doing yourself a favor necessarily you know. Um, yeah, but it it was possible. They did end up treating adults the same way and it had that same 80% um of efficacy of warding off the bad staff. So but why haven't you heard about these guys and why isn't this the best practices.\
\
01:55:03.13\
Ollie\
Effectively. Yeah.\
\
01:55:11.54\
Jala\
So somebody died and you know somebody got sick and died anyway. So the thing though the kind of takeaway here is that even though this is not a cure-all it's something to be considered and used side by side with traditional treatment methods. So. Ah, you know this would help like working with your microbiome and being aware of your microbes and trying to encourage beneficial biomes you know developments Biome developments is really something that's going to help. Overall with your capacity to bounce back if you get sick or your resistance to anything that will make you sick things like that. So yeah.\
\
01:56:03.82\
Ollie\
So it's a commenting over here and it's it's probably a commenting over there in America as well that if 1 kid in a class gets chickenpox ah parents will organize a play date so that all of the kids will get to chicken box I like.\
\
01:56:20.43\
Ollie\
3 or 4 years old when they are smaller. It's easier to deal with. They're less fussy. Whatever and you can get the chicken pox added away because at some stage in your life. You're going to have chickenpox and you're better off getting as a child whereas. For example, if you get chickenpox when you're an adult.\
\
01:56:38.67\
Ollie\
It can cause serious head problems. It can it can lead to infections in other parts of the body etc so it's very common and but there's also another theory that goes around and I just think it's funny when you see rewilding the body or a guardian gardening the body here that your average farmer over here in Ireland. Will caution you about things being too clean and you will it can come across as being like um like a oh you need to be more manly kind of stuff you know that kind of toxic masculinity kind of nonsense about oh you've got clean hands. You're obviously a soft boy or whatever. But. The reality is it's never been that way because farmers don't really think like that like they're they're just normal common people and they're not coming out with that kind of bullshit. They're usually just saying if you go to the trouble of cleaning yourself all the time you're actually going to be more likely to get sick and.\
\
01:57:29.91\
Jala\
Yeah, absolutely.\
\
01:57:35.46\
Ollie\
And it's just common sense and common knowledge are ah country wisdom as to call it and I also just love the idea that these scientists are putting in all of this effort and you would so I can just think of my uncle Benji like handing him one of those. Um. Of those research papers and him getting at the end of it. He's like yeah, that's what I said they're too clean and he's just like yeah of course like we we own. Ah, we've been saying this for 70 years Oliver and you you wash your hands too often. You keep the house too clean and people are not going. They're not going to be able to resist a sick.\
\
01:57:57.94\
Jala\
Yep yep.\
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01:58:13.20\
Ollie\
Let your children out to play around in the dirt a little bit and they'll be fine.\
\
01:58:13.89\
Jala\
Yeah, absolutely. So Yeah and we talked about the antibiotic side effects and things like that. So We we don't need to cover that again. But um, yeah, there's even this is something that is more interesting than ooh boy I Can't wait to try this? Ah but another procedure that is in use in some places is facal transplant for cases. Beyond hope of people who have really really bad. Nasty bacterial infections in their guts.\
\
01:58:47.51\
Jala\
So ah, the sick patient is given the sick patient is given heavy doses of antibiotics and then the feces and fecal microbes from the healthy person are transplanted into the sick person's body and the results of this have actually consistently rebooted the gut's ecosystem and saved a whole bunch of people's lives. As much as it sounds gross but like yeah.\
\
01:59:09.40\
Ollie\
It It sounds gross because it is gross. Um, but I'm I'm just looking up to to figures how so the vast majority of feces Poop is bacteria either living or dead Bacteria. So Let's just look up The. Figures here for us.\
\
01:59:32.25\
Ollie\
do do do do yeah so about 30% consist of dead bacteria and 30% consist of living bacteria. So what's happening there is they clean out using antibolics and they kill pretty much all of the bacteria that exists in your gut and then the idea is so we say a feecal transplant. And it's hard. Not to think to yourself good. That's disgusting but what they're doing is they're transplanting into your body something that's working the same as if your kidney was dying. You would cut it out and you could replace it with a healthy kidney nobody would think anything bad about it. But it's because the word fecal is involved here. It's a disgusting topic. But what they're doing really is just reintroducing a whole new set of bacteria that your body needs to be able to carry out the functions of the gut. So yeah, what it is disgusting if it works and it does the job. Hundred percent yeah I mean I'm not sure if I'd want to sign the form that says yeah I'm willing to take part but you know in the event of and car accident and whatever I am an organ donor so you know if you need to take whatever's left in there. You can.\
\
02:00:43.94\
Jala\
Right? right? So So yeah, um, that's another thing as well. Um, is is. It's interesting when they do fecal transplants ah like they do have actual like fecal to. Depositories or whatever is like there people there. There are fecal banks where people have healthy gut Microbiome remains to provide to hospitals just in case people need it. So I mean like that's sure a thing.\
\
02:01:14.67\
Ollie\
Stored just in case.\
\
02:01:19.10\
Jala\
So ah, yeah, but like that I only mentioned that just to go to show like that's how important those those gut bacteria are and um, there have been several studies as well showing that like the so stuff like leaky gut is like. A preliminary symptom of something else is going to develop most likely and you are going to get further issues like later on Celiac Disease things like that. Um, if you don't take care of the problem right.\
\
02:01:53.91\
Jala\
And a lot of the problem is you need to fix your gut Biome you know, like yes you can take antibiotics if that's what you know you need to do in that case but like talking to your doctor about you know, possibly trying to work with a nutritionist and get like you know a better gut biome going that would be. Part of your treatment plan that would help you so so yeah, like if you have leaky gut or Ibs or anything like that. Definitely take a look at that. So yeah, now on to a super fun thing. There's ah like talking about. The the slight mentionings of flavor and the mentioning of our microbiome and the microbiome of our house so there is a concept in Korea called sunmat which translates to hand flavor that is to say that is the taste that is added to food via the unique microbiomes of a person's hands. So ah Rob Dunn extrapolates this to our homes and the unique combination of the water that we use to cook the air in our homes and so on and so forth. So it's like all the surfaces and all the things that go into the food like obviously if you have a chlorinated water from the tap here in Houston versus. Um, you know like a well water. That's you know from a deep aquifer it's going to be a very different type of result right? So yeah and if you use spring water or whatever like things like that. So um.\
\
02:03:16.69\
Ollie\
Yeah, it's going to test completely different. Yeah.\
\
02:03:24.47\
Jala\
Yeah, this is actually the precise reason why nobody can make it the way grandma used to make because nobody else has Grandma's sunmat no one else has Grandma's hand microbiome and house microbiome. So ah, fermented foods are highly probiotic. They are ecosystems that weed themselves to quote Rob dun and they are very beneficial to our health to eat. Ah some examples are kimchi sauerkraut nato yogurt sourdough starters things like that. Um, now reason why this is mentioned fermented foods is that kimchi is. The thing that's usually used in contact with or in the context of talking about sunmat because 7 different people can make kimchi with the same ingredients in the same place and they will taste 7 different ways. And that's because of the result of the microbiomes of the hands because the hands are very strongly involved in the making of kimchi. So.\
\
02:04:22.58\
Ollie\
Yeah, so they're getting the sson mhat the Hand flavor into the kimchi.\
\
02:04:27.96\
Jala\
Yep, and I'll tell you about this really cool bread baking experiment that was done. We'll get there in a sec. Ah so so about the hands so we generally think that we remove all the microbes on our hands when we wash our hands but that's not the case. So when we wash our hands. We remove Microbes microbes that have not yet established themselves. They are newly arrived. They are the the stuff that you come in contact with out in the world that might possibly be pathogenic and so when we wash our hands we're saving lives in stuff. Yes, by minimizing the spread of pathogens and. That's great, but we're not sterilizing our hands our hands still have their own microbiome going on so you know that still exists in our hands and that's why sonmat exists you have a hand flavor associated only with your hands and that's because. Even if you wash your hands a whole bunch. It's not going to change the fact that you have colonies of microbes on your hands. So.\
\
02:05:30.78\
Ollie\
So yeah, washing your hands is as you said, if you um, have been walking around all day and you've been touching stuff. You're getting new bacteria on your hands. They're not your bacteria. They're just the ones that you've picked up true contact. So when you go in and wash your hands you're washing off those new ones. You're not washing off the ones that have been with you since you were 2 years old.\
\
02:05:49.77\
Jala\
Right? right? So an experiment here's the fun Baker Baker story so an experiment was done with bakers from all over the world. They were all given ingredients for a sourdough starter including the flour to feed the starter. And this was mailed to 15 different bakers in 14 different countries and each made their starters in their bakery in their home country the bakers and their starters were then flown to the parato center for bread flavor to make their breads by hand all together in the same facility. So their hands were swabbed. And their starters were sampled and their breads were also sampled and sure enough. Not only did they taste totally different from every single one of these and they did this really great beer and bread tasting which I wish I was there for that that sounds amazing. Yes, yes, absolutely. But so.\
\
02:06:38.25\
Ollie\
And delicious. Yeah.\
\
02:06:44.11\
Jala\
Sure enough some of those microbes ah were unique to unique to their starters and those came from the places that they made their starter. The breads contained some of the microbes of the place as well as some of the unique microbes of the hand So Each different bread tasted very different even though. They were made with the exact same ingredients and they were made in the same facility. But the starters came from different places and the hands that were baking them making the bread were all their own different microbiomes. So yeah, that's really neat and like it inspired. Me to go and buy like a freeze dried sourdough starter. Although I should probably start one from scratch I have not yet fed the beast because if I start it then that means I have to maintain it and then I have another pet in the House. So.\
\
02:07:35.21\
Jala\
Um, there was this other story that was in the book that was fantastic that I have I'm going to terribly paraphrase it here I remember that the starter had a name. This was a starter that was over one ah hundred years old that was in the family of this one lady because and when they were doing this study. When they had mailed off the ingredients to all these different people. They also invited people from all over the world to send in samples of their starters that they had so that they could take a look at them and see what the micro microbial differences are in each of them. So ah, this 1 lady sent a sample and included this massive story. She decided she was going to write the the little novella that she had in her heart this whole time. Um, and it's lovely. So the starter's name was Herman and well actually it is Herman because now Herman is is. In so many different places we'll we'll get there. So um, Herman was passed down. You know, like mother to daughter throughout the family you know and and all of that. Well then this lady happened to live I must live in California or something because she had an earthquake and then. You know the power went out and Herman Died so she was sad she was like oh no, my herman they tried to make another sourdough starter and the bread just did not taste the same because it wasn't herman bread so they were sad sad sad and then ah her mom passed away sometime later.\
\
02:09:03.83\
Jala\
And then when they were cleaning out all of her mom's stuff. She was just surprised and tearful and laughing at the same time when they went into her mom's home and found in the very back of like a vacation fridge in like ah a second home or something a little jar of Herman.\
\
02:09:22.73\
Jala\
That was left and so she got Herman back because her mom who passed away still had a jar somewhere so she was like Herman was brought back to me by my mom. My mom gave me herman back and then she got it. She grew Herman back to life again. And then she promptly gave it to like neighbors in each of her children has a jar and so like everybody has Herman now. So um, that was just a really neat story of like this over 100 years old starter and um, that's that's really cool I think you know like it's got the unique flavor of her family.\
\
02:09:59.19\
Jala\
And now that it's spreading out into the world that also means that now other people are going to have that and then use their son mat to make unique breads from that combination which is very cool.\
\
02:10:13.33\
Ollie\
And it's just ah, it's funny when you you say that like like I I work in the second school and um so the kids are constantly making food um in the home economics classes. So it'll be baking like buns or whatever and. Over the years so I've been teaching in this one school for a long time now. I I think I can taste the difference between different teachers baked goods because I have them like I have them almost every single day and I'm 90% certain and I could like if you put two buns in front of me.\
\
02:10:49.57\
Ollie\
And blindfolded me I'd be able to tell you which came from room 12 c and which came from room 16 c and ah just again just because different techniques and different as you said son ma different hand flavor coming from it's it's mad to think about it and it's lovely to hear that story about.\
\
02:11:08.60\
Ollie\
Ah, hundred year old sarahdo started that that everyone taught was gone and people had mourned and then while cleaning out from her own past away mother found Herman and is able to spread around to the rest of the family now I think that's lovely.\
\
02:11:21.24\
Jala\
I Know it was such a good story I mean I was so glad that it was included in the book. Absolutely and um, like I said like it inspired me to really want to bake. But also I live in a hot place and so baking is kind of like there's a very small window.\
\
02:11:37.43\
Jala\
During which I can bake without it. You know, heating up the house and then triggering my parents sensitivities if it was just me I would just turn the air on a little bit colder and I would go for it and make my damn bread but you know um I am not the only person in the house. So.\
\
02:11:54.29\
Jala\
You know Dave is with me but it's it's half and half and the the older generation gets their say because they're they're the more susceptible to everything folks so they they to 77 if if I turned on the actual oven it would get.\
\
02:12:02.78\
Ollie\
And they want to live inside of a furnace.\
\
02:12:14.90\
Jala\
Well over eighty so I don't want to maybe you don't want to know that the high today was 90\
\
02:12:22.49\
Ollie\
I don't I don't want to know that I am perfectly happy. There is an episode of judging butkurs from about two years ago where we had record highs for weather in Ireland right? just so we know record highs were \'c2\'b0C right which is\
\
02:12:41.60\
Ollie\
90 right? So not even ninety I think it's 88 and I have never sounded grumpier and angrier recording an episode with 2 people whom I love and still on that episode. I signed like a spoiled little child because of how hot it was because I had to turn off my fans for the 2 hours for me to record they have a episode podcast and by the time I was finished. The girls were constantly. They were pointing out how brilliant it was for them and how central air I was like well I don't need it. Nine hundred and ninety nine days out of a to but on that one day when they do I really wish I had it.\
\
02:13:24.66\
Jala\
Right? Well um, talking about microbiomes too. Central air is another big bad when it comes to microbiomes because it it catches a lot of stuff and it filters or it pushes out a whole bunch of stuff and and pushes it out into your house and kind of recirculates.\
\
02:13:41.50\
Jala\
Potentially bad stuff and a lot of bad stuff can grow in there. So um, that being said, one of the ah best practices involves if you can avoid turning on the Ac quite so much.\
\
02:13:55.46\
Ollie\
And open your windows.\
\
02:13:56.37\
Jala\
And use open windows. Yeah use open windows if you live in a climate that is conducive to that with our temperatures here. Ah we have to use Ac like constantly and we need it. So yeah I mean like I guess we don't. Technically need it until it gets to like the highest part of summer where there's actual heat advisories and there's like no way. But my folks do for sure because of their their sensitivities. So yeah.\
\
02:14:19.69\
Ollie\
Yeah, and they deserve it if they've gotten to that age. They deserve to have the temperature that they want to live in.\
\
02:14:26.78\
Jala\
Right? right? So yeah, So what are some takeaways. Oh Oh oh before we get to Takeaways I have to tell you this one little gem that has been living in my brain since I read it. Ah and I it's part of the the microbiome of the body stuff. But I got ah I got to mention it now because it's been on my mind and I just need it out in the World. So that other people can then have it in their Brains. So when it comes to birth and like the importance of the way that you're born and the things that happen when you're born in so far as the crucial moments of what starts to build up. Your particular microbiome of your body. So ah, when you are born vaginally like a a normal Childbirth. You get all of the and this is a quote from the book vaginal juices all over you. But then you also you.\
\
02:15:14.61\
Ollie\
Okay.\
\
02:15:18.81\
Jala\
Also your your face your nose and mouth get rubbed up against your mom's asshole and this is extremely I wish I had camera on to see your face. Ah this is extremely important.\
\
02:15:25.49\
Ollie\
Jesus.\
\
02:15:35.69\
Jala\
To actually providing you her you know bacterias that you need in order to develop a healthy microbiome is so um, you you face planted straight into your mom's ass when you were first came out so keep that in your head and ah. When you are when you're bored from a c-section. Um, sometimes it's medically necessary but a lot of times people ah do them just like they elect to do them so they don't go through vaginal birth. Um, so c-section means that you don't go through the birthing canal which means you don't get to.\
\
02:15:56.57\
Ollie\
Um, thank you.\
\
02:16:15.90\
Jala\
Ah, have a swim in asshole and in vaginal juices. You don't get to take a little bath. So um, yeah, it's recommended if people happen to be pregnant and listening to this. It is recommended.\
\
02:16:15.52\
Ollie\
Face plants in your mom's butt.\
\
02:16:30.44\
Jala\
Ah, that you try to have a vaginal birth if possible like ah in your birthing plan. But also if you do not if you have a c-section to ask ahead of time if the doctor and the nurses can then swab your your baby with your vaginal juices I'm kicking. See it keep saying it and getting getting upset about it. Um, so swab. Your baby wipe your baby over before because like every every time that a baby is born immediately. What does the hospital staff. Do they clean the baby they take everything off the baby and that's actually the opposite of what needs to happen immediately like right at first. The baby needs to have all the stuff the mom stuff on them for a little bit so that it can colonize on the baby for a little bit now that doesn't mean like you know you have to keep it on there for 7 hours or something but like you know, let it let it sit let the baby's gonna stew. Okay.\
\
02:17:11.45\
Ollie\
Okay.\
\
02:17:26.60\
Jala\
Before before um the microbes can really like take hold. Okay, so that's that's the important thing there that kind of take away from that. So I just had to impart that upon other people and get it out into the world because.\
\
02:17:41.54\
Jala\
You you can imagine that when I got off of work after having learned this titbit listening to an audiobook and you know skimming through the Kindle Ebook version and then like Dave and I are going on the little walk with the dog out you know down the street and I'm like so Dave did you.\
\
02:18:00.21\
Ollie\
Did you know.\
\
02:18:00.73\
Jala\
No yeah, now we can get to the takeaways I feel better now. Um, so yeah, ah, keep washing your hands. This is best practices. Definitely do that leave your windows open more often. If you can if you live in a climate that allows for it try to open your windows and not use the Ac unless you actually have to ah leave spiders alone wash dishes by hand because dishwashers are homes to loads and loads and loads of fungus.\
\
02:18:36.54\
Jala\
So ah, that's something we didn't mention but that's a truth. Ah if water gets on your dry wall dry it out. Go outside touch Grass is all he said if you can Garden Garden and use native plants whenever possible ah natives especially will help support the biodiversity of your region.\
\
02:18:45.50\
Ollie\
Good.\
\
02:18:56.37\
Jala\
As birds and insects and other creatures evolved to eat and mate and thrive around the stuff that's supposed to grow there. You know the the problem with our current urban landscapes is that everything is getting more and more urbanized and we have these massive swaths of nothing but like St Augustine grass everywhere and. There's nothing for the native wildlife to eat because we have gotten rid of it and then we don't even use native plants for our decorative gardening. We use imported fancy looking ornamentals which aren't supposed to be there. Which introduce their own problems and can bring their own pests. So ah, again, that is yet another episode of this show for another day. But um, you know, try to use native plants as much as possible if you are gardening. And try to do some of your own gardening for your own food. Some stuff is real simple to grow onions and tomatoes and stuff like that potatoes. But I have potatoes growing that just won't stop growing. Um, so yeah, like if you have space for it. There's ah actually a lot of stuff. You can also grow in like pots. I have had a container garden for years and years and years I had one when I was in an apartment and I continued to have one here. Some stuff is in the ground but a lot of it is also still in pots. So um, you can you can grow some cool food and some cool native plants and stuff in pretty much any environment. So yeah.\
\
02:20:25.19\
Ollie\
Yeah.\
\
02:20:26.90\
Jala\
And then ah, buy more fresh foods organic if you can and locally from farmers farmers markets if you can or grow your own. Yeah.\
\
02:20:39.13\
Ollie\
Um, yeah, like that's a lot of that just seems like common sense advice and yet for some people they're not doing any of them.\
\
02:20:48.89\
Jala\
Absolutely And that's the thing is that's like part of it is so I feel like the inertia of the modern age. You know people are used to a certain way of doing things.\
\
02:21:04.11\
Jala\
And to disrupt that even for something as paramount as their own health and well-being and stuff like that is second to their the comfort of doing the same thing. You've always done.\
\
02:21:18.20\
Ollie\
Yeah, and a lot of it also comes down to like we were talking about cleaning and cleaning products. Um, how many products do you see in the store that have kills 99.9 percent of bacteria and it's always advertisers like that's the main thing you really want to kill those bacteria but that's. Indiscriminately killing every bacteria whereas the vast majority of our not going to have any effect of you and most of the ones which are going to be causing you harm are within that point one percent that it doesn't kill.\
\
02:21:47.30\
Jala\
Yeah, absolutely and you know again, that's that's one of the big things too to take away from this episode is you know, just consider consider the types of things you're using to clean, um, you know we're not saying don't clean, but we are saying like. You know consider what you're using to clean and what that degree of efficacy is really doing. You know? So. So yeah, Ollie you got anything else more stories about fun stuff.\
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02:22:18.55\
Ollie\
No I'm still shocked about ah ah just that baby story at the end.\
\
02:22:24.64\
Jala\
I Know why do you think I like I I have it's been several days since I learned that little nugget of information and I have just been like you know I didn't even so I don't believe I even sent it to you in the massive amount of things that I was sending to you because.\
\
02:22:40.47\
Ollie\
Nope, it's it's not there. It was you that? Yeah but I said like just the idea that you're surrendered by Bacteria all the time and.\
\
02:22:42.29\
Jala\
I Saw that and I was like I'm a wait until I'm on the show but drop this bomb on him live.\
\
02:22:57.41\
Ollie\
It's just become such a buzzword to kill all these germs and get all of this and even even the names of things are really putting them off like but we were talking about microorganisms like when you hear the word at slime mode which is ah ah a type of Microorganism. It's hard not to associate. Word slime and the word mold with bad things because those words have come to mean bad things but slime mold in and of itself can be super beneficial to humans in hundreds of different ways. But we were still sitting here as soon as you hear the word slime and mold you go. That's bad need to get rid of that. So a lot of it can be just word association with bad with anything that's related to Microorganisms and microbiomes. But as said everything needs to work in Harmony and eventually you'll reach a point where your body is an equilibrium with the bacteria that are in your own home. And you don't need to stress about it or worry about it because you've reached an equilibrium point.\
\
02:23:56.48\
Jala\
Absolutely well said Ollie so yeah I think like this is a good place to wrap this episode I wasn't sure how long it was gonna be I'm I'm happy with the length. It is don't want to go too long, but this is long enough.\
\
02:24:11.71\
Ollie\
Yeah, it's.\
\
02:24:12.93\
Jala\
You know I say don't want to go too long because I've have an episode of the show. That's a full hour longer than this so metroid fusion Ollie Metroid Fusion the longest episode of my podcast ever. So ah I I really love that game.\
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02:24:19.59\
Ollie\
Ooh. I I game I have still not played.\
\
02:24:30.26\
Jala\
I found out that a lot of other people really love that game and when I tried to wrap the show at about this time they were like going on and then a whole nother hour happened after I was like and so let's wrap up now and yeah, no, no.\
\
02:24:43.80\
Ollie\
Um, is fusion the one that's a remake of the first metrode or is that 0 mission. Okay.\
\
02:24:50.12\
Jala\
No, it is not um so ah, 0 that zero mission I think is the one that's a remake um metroid fusion is what metroid what is it in the canon metro 3 I guess yeah gba if you have a switch. It's on the Nintendo online switch store.\
\
02:24:55.18\
Ollie\
Yeah.\
\
02:25:01.21\
Ollie\
So that's that's on GB a yeah.\
\
02:25:09.71\
Jala\
Or switch ah switch subscription or whatever. So.\
\
02:25:12.40\
Ollie\
Yeah I don't actually have a switch I have um I have a 3 ds there somewhere? Um, but I fear like I've tried to I was a big Nintendo fan. This is not this is not related to bios at all. But I was a big Nintendo fan and with the we you and. Then the beginning of the switch I I genuinely I've become so jaded with them at the company as a whole and I know Nintendo fans tend to defend them no matter what but it's going to science stupid but Nintendo. Are the definition of a toxic relationship with their fans like they are treating their fans like dirt and they'll release six good video games over the the lifestyle the lifestyle or the the lifespan of the console and fans would be like oh my god that's amazing I can't believe to give a six over five years yeah great job Nintendo yeah, and it's like rationing out. It's like what? what What do they call it love bombing and then ignoring them in in toxic relationships or narcissistic relationships and I think Nintendo are very narcissistic and they treat their fans like dog crap. But.\
\
02:26:12.50\
Jala\
Ah, yeah, yeah.\
\
02:26:29.62\
Ollie\
It took me a long long time to get to that point and if you would ask me fifteen years ago I do like Nintendo were the burst I love the to enddo toileer princess is so good.\
\
02:26:33.31\
Jala\
No well.\
\
02:26:40.72\
Jala\
Well, a lot of people love that game. So yeah, yeah, so all right cool. So Ollie ah are you able to be found anywhere on the internet and if you weren't do you want to plug something.\
\
02:26:42.40\
Ollie\
It is fun.\
\
02:26:52.70\
Ollie\
Yeah, look me up on Facebook I already talked about the 2 judging book covers ah podcast and do but if you want to look up the other podcast that I guess done quite regularly. It's called media evil and and my good friend Sarah Ifdecker she's a medieval historian and she. And myself will watch a movie or read a book. It's usually watch a movie because let's face it who has the time to read books these is so we watch a movie and then she will break it down from the point of historical accuracy and then I will break it down from the point of whether or not I enjoyed men stabbing each other in the face which I did um and she will. Tell us what what they get right? and what they get wrong and when you have somebody on a podcast who knows their stuff as much as she does. It can't help but be an entertaining thing I am just meant to be there as flavor I'm the sson mhat of the podcast when I'm on.\
\
02:27:41.10\
Jala\
I was about to say there you go Ollie you're the sson mhat so does this mean that you are the microbiome colony on the podcast. Ok ya.\
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02:27:52.20\
Ollie\
I believe I am.\
\
02:27:57.22\
Jala\
Comes full circle. This is how we bring the biodiversity back y'all? So yes, all right cool and ah, you can find me anywhere that I might be found @Jalachan including Jalachan.place where you found this episode and all of the others. So. Until next time folks take care of yourself and remember to smile.\
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[Show Outro]\
Jala\
Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via Jalachan.place or find me at Jalachan in places on the net!\
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[Outro Music]}