[Show Intro]
Jala
Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! 
Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here!

[Intro music]

00:00.00
Jala
Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I'm joined by Case (he/him). Yay Case!

00:08.93
Case _he_him_
Um, yay think yeah oh it's cool, comics are one of my beats but but you know I'm happy to be here for anything.

00:11.00
Jala
Welcome back. We're talking about another comic I swear I'm going to have you on for something that's not a comic too in the future I already have it? Yep, yeah yeah, so I definitely already have you um like earmarked for um, a future episode I'll talk to you about that later. I think I might have talked to you about it before I don't remember we'll we'll discuss anyway. So yeah, yeah, more than just this. You'll be back. So anyway, yeah, how are you doing today.

00:30.84
Case _he_him_
I think I'm on the list for I'm on the list for more than just this. So.

00:41.18
Case _he_him_
Ah, today is overall. Okay, it's been one of those like kind of kind of stressful days with my one year old who has been in a lot of like big feelings today. Ah, but aside from that things are doing pretty well minus the fact that as I am getting closer and closer to 40 just basic tasks seem to cause me to hurt in ways that are ah surprising and new.

01:03.49
Jala
Yeah I turned 42 this year so um I understand it's kind of like um I I was in my moi baron class this morning with Dave and so ah, my instructor is in his 50 s. And he knows like all of the styles of moiuran as well as you know moaii andrabiraon and a bunch of other stuff. So like he's he's like a master of like everything from Thailand and um, anyway when we were starting to do it. We were going to do a particular move that involves like a spinning kick. And he's like oh wait a minute. Let's worm up a little bit more. Let's stretch a little bit more before we did the move because he was just like yeah like I'm I can do it but I need to I need to stretch a little bit more because I'm I'm up there in age or whatever so you know but um.

01:52.50
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

01:52.74
Jala
Anyway, good times good times. So I've I've been on the run. Um, as I told you in the green room I have not showered yet so like my face is all shiny being at the class and running errands and everything. Um so it is fine that we are on camera and not smell a vision. You don't have to smell all of that. So. Good on you I know it's just like ah beaming right? I mean anyway, yes, yes for sure, it's like did did you put like a ah coat of oil on your skin. Also anyway. So yes, today we will be talking about.

02:12.41
Case _he_him_
I don't know all the Lin Fla is coming off of your sweaty skin is throw me looks very yeah J J Abrams ah

02:31.37
Jala
The Many Deaths of Laila Starr which is a very cool comic. Um, but before we do that I do want to give you time at this top at the episode to talk about the things that you do so please tell the nice people about your shows.

02:43.61
Case _he_him_
Yeah, so if you're tuning into this episode because you're familiar with a comic I am a host of a Superman and Superman adjacent podcast ah which delves into lots of comic book stuff. It's called Men of Steel you can find that wherever you get your podcast but also on Youtube which has recently gotten a lot of eyes of of late and has been a thing I've as a result focused a bit more on so check out Certain POV Media which is the Youtube channel for my podcast network which all of my episodes are up there. I also host Another Pass which is a movie and analysis show where we look at movies that were fascinating but flawed and discuss how they could have been fixed at the time of production and then every 5 episodes we talk about a movie that did actually go through the process of you know behind the scenes drama and then overcame it through creativity and and whatnot. So. Both of those are shows you can find wherever you get podcasts again Men of Steel and Another Pass. Um, but but yeah I like looking at weird stuff and I look at like looking at comics and that's kind of perfect for today.

03:44.16
Jala
Yeah, absolutely and I can highly recommend both of those shows as somebody who's listened to both of them and been on Men of Steel for an episode at some juncture in the past talking about a thing. So yes, Ah, very good stuff. Very good stuff as for us. Fireheart Media is found on Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia and we have bonus shows and extra content ah reviews and things like that there are patron tiers. Check it out, get us few bucks. Blah blah you know the the drill. So um.

04:16.13
Case _he_him_
Yeah oh actually let me let me throw out I actually recently set up my own Ko-fi account. So ko dash FIDotCom slash Case akin if you want to support that and I will ah one of the the perks in there is being able to suggest an episode topic for 1 of my shows as well as getting shout outs on the podcast and.

04:33.62
Case _he_him_
I Forget about it because no one else or no one has actually signed up yet. But I just made the account so you know how it is.

04:39.41
Jala
But well there you go So I will add that to the show note Link So We have that in there as Well. So folks can take a look at that. So yay. Um, So so um, before we start talking about the actual comic itself Case tell me about your history with this comic because like I'm sure you. Have a history with this comic of some sort.

04:59.37
Case _he_him_
You know most of the history I have is because I have a lot of like comic podcast friends who have raved about it to me and I actually hadn't read it until we were discussing looking at it for the show. Um, but I know um.

05:12.30
Case _he_him_
Keith from We Have Issues and Alex from Panology both raved about the the book to me and so I wanted to like check it out at some point it was like always on my list Ram V the the writer is a a writer that I'm familiar with not I haven't done huge dives and in. Any of the runs that they've they've done on some of the books but like ah I've read most I've read issues of of most of the books that they've been working on in the last couple years so there's at least that. Um, but but yeah I don't have a huge like personal story to it. Um, ah but. But I was always kind of intrigued and I'm always looking for books that are a little outside the norm even though I am kind of a basic bitch who like Superman ah, hey.

05:57.60
Jala
Ah, there is nothing wrong with that bread and butter is just fine. Ah.

06:01.56
Case _he_him_
But bread and butter is sometimes the way to go especially if you can make it toast. Ah, it's just amazing. Um, so yeah, so yeah, so I was I was excited to check this one out. Um, and I'm reading online a lot of material around it I I'm like oh yeah I see.

06:03.87
Jala
Right? exactly.

06:19.43
Case _he_him_
The sort of it. It. It made me think a lot of Sandman in and specifically Death and the High Cost of Living the the spinoff books. Um, but updated for a modern setting with like a different cultural vantage point than like the the british ni of Neil Gaman um so like it's it's a very cool book that that harkens back to things I've read before. Um but I don't have like a big history with it. No I haven't.

06:45.94
Jala
So so here's the thing have you read Daytripper? Oh you've got to read Daytripper ah because this is a lot like it has so much DNA with Daytripper. So um I can definitely see what you're talking about with Sandman. Um. And you know like now that you mentioned it? Yes, um I haven't read tons of Sandman but I've read enough to know what you're talking about and you know like yeah for sure. This also reminds me of um Daytripper that's um, what is it ah Fabio Moon and Gabriel Ba I believe unless I'm Misremembering anyway ah definitely I recommend on that comic that is a series of stories that it it's not about death as a character. It is, um, however, centric to the the kind of concept of a good life which is is kind of a lot of what this book is about in a lot of ways. So um, anyway, so so that's something that I would recommend for folks if you are interested in this book if you've read this book if you like this book check out daytriper and then as Case, recommended the the death spinoff stuff from sandman. So yeah, ah romvi. Ah, illustrated by Felipe Andrade and um so Ram V worked on swamp thing Batman Catwoman just league dark a bunch of other stuff also independently publishes stuff paradiseo these strange shores and the eisner award winner blue in green and he began self publishing in like ah.

08:15.18
Jala
2016 although you said they is this is the pronoun they I don't know. Okay, if you don't know. Okay, yeah, got you got you? So um, like from the stuff that I saw it said he so anyway. Um so yeah, this is the first thing that. Ah.

08:16.52
Case _he_him_
I Think it's he I think I I sometimes default today if a colloquially yeah. I Think it is like I like I said sometimes it in I Just try to be safe someday is.

08:34.16
Jala
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so um, so yeah, this is the first comic that I read from this author Jala how does you come across this comic the same way Jala comes across anything I'm looking around on the internet and I go what the hell is that that looks interesting I like the colors on that cover and then I go okay I'm reading it and here I am I read the thing. And now we're talking about it. So um, this has so so ah, this is ah death. It's a story about death. It is a story about death. Um, trying to assassinate someone who allegedly has created eternal life or like you know, kind of outmoded or or cheated death if you will. And um, like the whole kind of running story is that but it's also through the lens very very very loosely of you know like um indian culture and things like that. So. Ah, kind of stuff right up my alley since I have a lot of indian movies that end up either on the show on my podcast itself or in the reviews and stuff or in my server.

09:27.49
Case _he_him_
Yeah, when I was reading this I was thinking about your love of like Bollywood movies and I was like oh this is going to be right up your alley? yeah.

09:34.83
Jala
A thing that I'm going to like? Yeah yeah, yeah for sure for sure. So um, yeah, this was published by Boom Studios in 2021. It was released as a TPB - trade paperback - in 2022 and this was an Eisner nominee so it's got that going for it. Cool.

09:59.62
Jala
Let's go ahead and do a quick spoiler free summary and then we'll just kind of talk about general impressions of the book and delve into artwork and things there will be a spoiler wall for folks. So ah, there will be a spoiler free section right at the front probably pretty short and then we'll get into actually talk about the narrative. Overall so like if you like what you hear up into the Spoiler wall. Great, Ah, go check it out and then come back and listen to the rest day episode if you like so.

10:23.16
Case _he_him_
Yeah, and if people are checking out now just because they are generally like kind of like not sure if they want to continue I will say this is a really good comic like it. It's a really good thing and and really good to read in the trade I think that that it flows very well. Ah. To the point where like I feel like I'd be frustrated reading this in individual issues which I think is what I said last time I was on. Ah yeah.

10:43.68
Jala
Ah, yeah, yeah for the Nightly News. Yeah, absolutely so so yeah ah yeah, the spoiler free summary of this is that humanity is on the verge of discovering immortality and as a result the avatar of death is cast down to earth to live a mortal life in Mumbai. As 20 something Laila Starr struggling with her newfound mortality Laila has found a way to be placed in the time and place where the creator of immortality will be born so will she take her chance to stop mankind from permanently altering the cycle of life or will death. Really become a thing of the past this is like the summary from Amazon or wherever it's like that's just like the the general summary that they put out there to intrigue audiences. So that's what we've got.

11:28.91
Case _he_him_
Yeah I mean that's really like the not even the trailer pitch like that's the teaser pitch and I feel like you already went more into detail when you were given kind of like ah an even Briefer summary before but like kind of got into some of the details. Um, yeah, suffice it to say there is ah ah the the passage of some time in this all.

11:46.85
Case _he_him_
And we get to see sort of ah Laila's approach to things and like what is what? what is death's approach to life.

11:56.33
Jala
Right? right? And um, so yeah, the the I already mentioned before but the reason why I looked at this comic in the first place is because I was like looking at the cover and going huh. Those are some pretty colors is very.

12:06.87
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

12:09.85
Jala
Very bright colors. Very ah, very very Jawless colors game. They're going. Um, you know.

12:13.60
Case _he_him_
Yeah, like I like let's start there when we're talking about the art because you said you were drawn to the to those colors and man this book is a a visual treat from a coloring standpoint.

12:20.75
Jala
Yeah, absolutely and color is one of those things that I love absolutely one of the best. So like you know if I see any kind of a comic or any kind of a movie or something that has an interesting art style to it any interesting you know shots or. You know, directorial style or whatever the visuals if the visuals are unique or you know stand out in some way shape or form especially if it comes to color palette like I love the Dick Tracy movie we talked about it on my show late. You know before the Dick Tracy movie is fantastic at having the color palettes of an old comic. You know, just as an example and that's so what 1990 old old movie. So you know, um, there's an example of that also like Sin City that's another good one that has like a striking visual style based on a comic book as well. So.

13:11.19
Case _he_him_
Yeah, although those are ones where they are taking the limitations of older styles of comics like since city is is deliberately noir and so even though it's a more modern comic at least as of when the movie was made um it still was. Predominantly black and white with like limited splashes of color and and dick Tracy is going off with like the old four color style ah like printing process that ah ah, you know, really favored big bright ah like splotches of color rather than any kind of like nuance this is this is a piece that is of. Thoroughly modern in terms of of its approach to color like ah the the amount of computer coloring going on in here is is truly impressive that the just everything like it it all pops and and in a lot of ways like the in sort of like sickly like ways that feel like the scene would. Feel rather than how it would actually look at the time kind of thing I say sickly because there's ah, some moments where it's like ah you see the the like the bad things that happen oftentimes have like the the brightest most like pink hued color schemes. Ah.

14:01.00
Jala
Right.

14:16.94
Case _he_him_
You know in in things that would normally be coded for happy. But as a result it like feels unsettling because that it's sort of like clashes with how you would perceive it? Um, so that that's just kind of what I'm thinking there but like yeah, just just incredible work there and I don't I don't want to put down um Felipe Andrade

14:37.20
Case _he_him_
because the the pencil work is is also fantastic like the the dynamism of scenes and the way people perceive things are are represented so well. Um I think that look yeah I mean just. In general I I Really like this book. Um it. It's a visual treat. It's a storytelling treat. There's some really clever things going On. Um and from an art perspective it you're it's Lush and it it just feels great the whole time you're in it.

15:05.63
Jala
Yeah, see like the other comic that you've been on the show about the Nightly News. What did I pick that up for because of the art style like I look at the art and I'm like oh that looks interesting and that's the first thing that pulls me into a lot of these comics and then I'm like oh actually there's other stuff about it that I think is well.

15:09.56
Case _he_him_
Also true. Yeah, right.

15:23.63
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

15:24.39
Jala
Let's talk about it. Yeah so um, some of my notes. So ah sketchy line work often with large swaths of Negative Space Wherein they are filling it in with that computer coloration. Ah, this whole book is very very pastel. Ah its Pastel Colors. Its soft colors. Its gradients in a lot of Cases. Things like that. Um, but it is very color. Rich.. There's not really a lot of black I mean like the black is in the line work. But it's not really otherwise much black that you see it's just lots of vibrant colors and very much ah mood and tone palettes.

15:59.12
Case _he_him_
Yeah, shadows are usually like purple or blues in this and even in some Cases greens to to really sort of make it feel to make it feel like you can see what's going on here like oftentimes you can see what would normally be like hidden to a person's eyes. Um, and that's kind of a deliberate plot point. So it's.

16:01.78
Jala
Yeah.

16:16.53
Case _he_him_
Ah, they they represent that artistically as well.

16:19.67
Jala
Right? right? So Ah, yeah, it's It's pretty like minimal on the shadows for that reason like I mean there's very simplified shadows. They are minimal because they're like color fill. They're not deep blacks or anything like that. Ah, so like as where ah we were talking last time about nightly news and that one has like black and white and lots of black and white and then like some other little splashes of color thrown in and it's more emphasizing the like graphic design elements of it. Ah you know like this one is sitting more with like the the emotive. Quality of of what the colors and the ah like the way they balance all the panels and stuff works so something about the the way that the figures and stuff are drawn so they are drawn Again. Kind of like with this.

16:57.61
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

17:11.16
Jala
Emphasis on Perception. So ah, there's a lot of kind of exaggerated or cartoony proportions where things are you know, like the limbs look a lot longer in certain areas or like certain parts are are bigger than you might imagine like in a realistic portrayal. But that's because like it's it's again, it's kind of working with the feeling of you know what?? what? What would you come away with if you looked at somebody in this particular position and then like turned away like what would you draw them like you know that kind of thing where it's It's kind of um, feels almost like a memory like working from memory kind of thing and same thing.

17:41.00
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

17:49.23
Jala
The color palette. It's very very much like a sentimentality to it.

17:54.21
Case _he_him_
That Yeah I mean I was I was going to say it's very perspective based the um the the characters who are seeing things we're seeing it through their eyes and and warped by those circumstances. So when we see things from the perspective of of like a kid.

17:56.33
Jala
Yes.

18:08.24
Case _he_him_
Everyone looks so tall and and strange and because that's how the child perceives things. Um, if when we see things through like other elements like through other narrators like we see it the way the world looks to them specifically. Um, which I think is really cool.

18:23.70
Jala
Right? But at the same time even though that is the Case like it is still seamless within itself. It's not like stark contrast between you know the kid vision or you know the whatever other character vision. You know, like um, it still has like a seamless flow to it but you also can. Perceive like when it's 1 viewpoint versus another. So ah, yeah, and then also like the paneling the paneling tends towards long rectangles which I wrote you know it's very boxy but the the boxes slow down your eye versus having a lot of diagonals and things.

18:58.22
Jala
And it also gives you a lot more room to breathe when it comes to like the proportion of text boxes to panels. You know like you have a lot of open space where you have that breathing room and you have those color washes to you know, just kind of like sit with what's going on as you go through the comic. So um, yeah, it it kind of the text boxes are are pretty well-balanced to where I feel like a lot of times the text and the artwork have equal weight on the page. You know like sometimes with american comics. You get so many words on the page. It's like you know, very dense with text. And then like the images are kind of like also crammed and packed and then like you spend a very very long time on all the pages for that reason? Um, but like with this ah it's it's not quite. To the style of like ah something like a man what manga or a manwa where like there's a lot of diagonals and there's not as many words at all and and like it's more about movement there like it's it's more balanced.

19:57.94
Case _he_him_
No, it's it's balanced. It's it's not this is not storyboards for like a movie like this is ah a composition that works as much between the language and between the the visuals. Um, one thing I found interesting is that there's a lot of spots in it. Um, which was. Particularly noticeable because I had to I read this first ah like digitally and then my hard copy arrived but in digitally speaking there were a lot of times where it would be like a widescre shot at the top. It'd be a 2 page spread for like the top half ah of it and then all the like inter panels like. Below it would sort of like have you kind of like settle into the the moments and the words and everything but it would it would be often like these like big establishing shots. Um, and then you would get into your individual coverage kind of thing I know I said that it's not storyboards but like yes I just described it like a storyboard. So like you know. Not but what I mean is that like they will that the the piece allows the artwork to breathe but at the same time we'll we'll Zoom in to get all of the the words and to to balance it out appropriately.

21:07.00
Jala
Right? right? Well and then to um, going with the same kind of concept of ah memory sentimentality and you know like general Emotiveness. So like when you come up on a scene you see it. In the kind of widescreen first before you get into all the details of what happened and that's how it works in your memory too. Most of the time at least for me. Um, when I'm thinking back on a situation. The first thing I see in my mind is you know like the scene and then it goes into.

21:40.73
Case _he_him_
No.

21:40.87
Jala
Sequences after that. So like again to me like that just seems to track for like the the kind of visual thrust they're working with here. So yeah, yeah, so um, moving on to some of the.

21:49.13
Case _he_him_
Yeah.

21:55.59
Jala
Talk about the writing so this is a tale of life and death using the lens of magical realism and again set in India using the indian pantheon for the immortal characters these indian characters these these immortal you know indian gods and such they're they're not like. How they are actually but you know like in the in the in the you know, ah there is an interpretation going on for sure. Um, there are a few small things about the characters that are like oh you know like that's pretty cool like say agni. For example, the god of fire is like a paper pusher secretary type guy.

22:19.60
Case _he_him_
Ah, there is an interpretation going on here. Ah.

22:34.58
Jala
And that's because like in the the vhazen stuff like um Agni was ah ah, a much more important and significant god because in the vedic times like that was before they had um so many personifications it was more like you know the the elements had their deities and then that was what was. You know the thing but but ah as time kind of went on all of the ah yagnas and other things like that that they did ah all used agni as the medium to speak to the gods like the offerings were given through fire to the gods and things like that so agni in that way is. Kind of like that secretary position where he's you know like the intermediary right between ah the mortals or the brahmins and then the deities. So you know like that's kind of cool and then of course um, Agni's importance over time as of course ah vaishnavisism shaiaivism and everything kind of ah, sprung up. From there. You know like his importance kind of diminished in everything at this point but like that's that's why like stuff like that I mean if you know if you're familiar with you know the the hindu mythology and everything you're like oh that's actually pretty clever this interpretation and specific is a pretty nice. Nice little twist to. Express that so.

23:49.88
Case _he_him_
Yeah, like and then there's inclusions that don't actually have like as far as I know ah I Obviously we're talking about a very dense pantheon. But for example, taxes is personified in this at one point both it's alluded to earlier and then later on actually shows up.

24:06.80
Case _he_him_
And it's like oh yeah, ok like it's I laughed my head off when that first was referenced and it's like oh ok, yep there there we go because it's kind of in that sand man way where like the concepts are personified and be are and given power ah through through the nature of the world. 

24:26.32
Case _he_him_
And it was just like hilarious to be like oh yeah, death and taxes are like kind of like parallel deities in this like hierarchy.

24:30.50
Jala
Well and then Two. There's also like throughout history hinduism kind of just every time it runs into something else where you know something is important to a new type of people who is integrated into Indian society. They kind of just roll everything into their own. You know. Religion and and perspective anyway. So like you know, part of the reason why there's so many different avatars of every different God is because every single time a new type of person was integrated into Indian Society. It's like oh your River Goddess is our River Goddess. That's just a different incarnation of the same thing. It's the same thing. It's still part of hinduism it works you know and like they just roll it all together and keep going with it right? So um, that's also fun because of like the the way that ah.

25:20.00
Jala
You know, Hindus have approached like historically approached other cultures and other religions and things is just to roll it all together and for some you know the religion of the state is the religion. You know? and ah, right now. Ah you know like the the situation over in India with. Their ah conservative hindu. Um, you know like head of state and everything that they've got going on over there. Ah, it's also kind of to me it. It kind of ties together. Ah the current state of India if you will with this you know story in in a way.

25:56.53
Case _he_him_
Yeah I mean it's certainly an area where knowing about elements of it will help explain things that that happen in this story but it it is also one that doesn't require it like they they explain very well. The things that are important. Um and a lot of things just feel like.

26:15.79
Case _he_him_
Big truths. Um and like might there might be specific idiosyncrasies to the to the setting but like it doesn't feel ah like for me, not not as familiar with with hindu culture or or hindu religion or Indian culture in General. Um. It still made sense to me like there was it's It's very well-explained the elements that are there feel like texture in a way that's like really helpful and like you know, ah adds to the scene but doesn't necessarily require ah an understanding of it from the outside.

26:33.54
Jala
Yeah, yeah.

26:48.47
Case _he_him_
Ah, they they explain enough and then you sort of feel it and you you appreciate it.

26:52.78
Jala
Right? right? So like all the little details that I'm saying like not required you can read this and enjoy it ah without having any for knowledge or anything like that. Um, it's really kind of like background coloration texture something like that more than it is anything else. It's not plot important whatsoever. You can enjoy the story as it is so so yeah, and yeah here it is here's my note a day tripper twins Fabio Moon and Gabriel Bah so yeah ah definitely recommend that folks should check that out. So um, those are all.

27:13.27
Case _he_him_
Right.

27:28.11
Jala
But notes that I've got like pre spoiler wall when it comes to this I don't really have much else that I can talk about without getting into the Nitty gritty. How ah.

27:35.58
Case _he_him_
Likewise I've been holding off on on things and I've got like a thing that I'm like is this a spoiler or is it not and I'm going to hold it till after this the spoiler comment or the spoiler section so that we that I don't have to worry about it.

27:43.54
Jala
Yeah, sounds good. So let's go ahead and put up the spoiler wall Spoiler Wall has been erected and people can't see it but I'm actually putting out my hands. Okay, there are now I'm messing with yay.

27:54.46
Case _he_him_
Barrier has arrived.

28:00.27
Jala
Yes, we have had the barrier erected fully erect. We are good. So let us talk go ahead, tell us the thing. Yeah yeah.

28:04.79
Case _he_him_
So I I would not be surprised if the original title for this book was The Many Lives of Death. Ah because that feels as much an apt way of viewing this whole thing as the reverse of this whole and I realize that you sort of create like a more specific branding by having the name Laila Starr in the title and by having that become sort of the throughline. Um, but it also works the other way too and like yeah I read a really good breakdown like looking at the different types of death that occur that ah that.

28:25.55
Jala
Yeah.

28:40.14
Case _he_him_
Darius character experiences around him as as you know, like metaphorically he has a run in with death each time. Um, so there is a really interesting aspect to the types of death that he experiences um so that makes it the many deaths. Also.

28:58.76
Case _he_him_
You know like Beyond just like the fact that Laila Starr herself dies a whole bunch in this whole thing. Um, but at the same time I have to imagine that there was an early thought about the the plan words there and then settled ah away from it to be more specific and less. You know like the death the high cost of living kind of.

29:18.85
Case _he_him_
Story there like to make it its own thing. Um, but yeah, ah do you know if Laila Starr as a name has any sort of significance I wasn't able to find anything specifically.

29:30.38
Jala
Nope got nothing don't know if there's any kind of significance to that whatsoever.

29:40.46
Case _he_him_
Yeah I mean I see that in Hebrew and Arabic it means "of the night" but which I guess like is apt for for it all but isn't necessarily like a star of the night ah but still isn't yeah.

29:53.97
Case _he_him_
Laila by itself doesn't have have like any overt symbolism to it. Ah yeah.

29:59.72
Jala
Yeah I think it's just a a neat name I don't know like ah but yeah, like that that's um, Hebrew or whatever origin for it is interesting at the very least to add a little bit of flavor to it. 

30:15.36
Jala
So yeah, ah Case, do you want to start our our spoiler rundown of the story here.

30:19.94
Case _he_him_
All right? Um, yeah, so the the book opens with one late afternoon in December death gets summoned to her boss's office and told that she is being let go because a child is destined to bring eternal life. Ah.

30:34.30
Case _he_him_
This child has been born into the world and and thus death is no longer required which is an interesting thing because death doesn't go away. It's way like this. We're talking about Capital D Death is no longer required lower D death still exists and it's still going to keep on going through throughout this whole series. Um I ah.

30:53.52
Case _he_him_
Door this depiction of death. Ah when she first shows up and she feels like very much like like girl boss like I've got coffee in 1 of my 8 arms I'm like doing a million things I'm so on top of the stuff and god damn it my boss is like calling me into into his office just so you can kind of prattle for a while.

31:12.69
Case _he_him_
Like I like I'm so I'm so busy and I'm so on top of things and like really this could have been an email.

31:16.37
Jala
Right? Well because like ah in in that the one of those first shots like she's trying to cram herself into an elevator and she is doing her makeup. She's got her coffee. She's fixing her hair. She's got like a file in her hand she's in like a power suit if you will. And everything so she just like got no time for this got no time for the elevator got no time for the boss. You know it's pretty great. Pretty great.

31:42.96
Case _he_him_
Right? Yeah, it's it's a fantastic setup and it's also like ah jarring because up the the first couple panels that we've witnessed so far have been um you know a dad and trying to drive his his wife to the hospital because she's like giving birth. Um, and we're seeing this like 1 girl who's like flirt I mean flirting with death effectively. Ah ready to like jump out this window. Um, and then all of a sudden There's this just golden tower in this like you know and it shifts over to like? oh it's all the gods are at work right now.

32:20.40
Jala
Um, absolutely and then like um, it's interesting because like her boss they never name her boss. They never say like this is brahma or anything like that. They just leave it alone. They just. Have the the multi-headed guy with the Lotus over his head and you know they don't mention his actual name ever.

32:40.40
Case _he_him_
Yeah, um, but so after being fired ah she is basically told that she's going to go live as a mortal um and they do they do the possess a person as they die moment as opposed to being born which could have been its own kind of thing. Um, and so that sort of like creates this sort of ageless entity that is is is Laila so she's born into the mortal world since she no longer has a place with immortals and she works with Agne who as we discussed is is sort of like made to be more of the secretarial type. Um.

33:16.34
Case _he_him_
To be sure that she is born close to the child. Ah so that she can hunt this baby down. Ah.

33:20.68
Jala
Yeah, yeah, well and something that I really really like is that like on one of the very very beginning pages when she's in her boss's office and getting let go. Ah so like there is a panel like it's it's her and her boss in there and they're talking and then there's a panel so you know switching back to the girl flirting with death. Like you know, hanging out this window and she's like you know, sticking her legs out the window and looking down and she's smoking and then they're on that panel. There is the the text of yes death I'm afraid we're letting you go and this is just like this one little panel just reminds me of like the beginning of Watchmen so much. Where it's like you know all of the the kind of dark puns. Can you see the dark humor. You know right? when The Comedian is being thrown out of the window. It's kind of like that little setup and the fact that it's switching back and forth between stuff and layering 2 different things, 2 different scenarios 2 different scenes together in 1 thing. Um, just for that little bit there and like as it's you know, toggling between the the various um you know setups we've seen so far in this this first chapter. Ah, it that is reminiscent. It doesn't it doesn't come across the exact same way. But that one particular panel was like boy this is really Watchmen beginning watchmen for sure for me.

34:42.48
Case _he_him_
Yeah, they they like doing the because so much of the text is in the form of narration that is is outside of the scene Itself. It's extra diagetic. Um, the the. It likes to play with that kind of like punchline situation where like the text is juxtaposed with the image either ironically or like synergistically ah and it's It's a very fun you know writing style for it like this This is a very modern book.

35:11.97
Case _he_him_
Like is one one of the things I want to say about it.

35:13.17
Jala
Well and the interesting thing is is that like it. It might have done it further throughout the rest of the comic. But I don't remember that it did I think it's just in this first little setup where they're doing that and having that kind of mm.

35:25.30
Case _he_him_
Well like there there is in the the chapter that is narrated by the cigarette which will talk more about when we when we get to that all but um I I thought that that was such like the the use of narration in this is all extremely clever.

35:33.21
Jala
Um, ah when we get there.

35:43.31
Jala
Well it it would be a little bit too much of it was consistently the same way the entire time. So like I'm glad that it's kind of peppered in there rather than being you know, ah constant. So.

35:55.90
Case _he_him_
Right? Um, so anyway, ah death is the thus transferred into this girl Laila Starr who um, it's heavily implied that she kills herself although there is enough. Um.

36:09.76
Case _he_him_
There's there's enough in there where it's like maybe maybe she fell or maybe she was just like you know faking it out and then slipped or something to that effect you know like was it was she actually trying to kill herself or was she trying to look like she was killing herself and then like actually just slipped by accident. But but both are possible I lean towards suicide as as the scenario for this girl.

36:28.46
Case _he_him_
Um, but so she jumps out a window. This is actually where the cover image comes from of her like falling to her death like over Mumbai. Um, which side note like she forms a star in the in the cover image by way of being like you know a 5 point stance ah or like 5 point like starfish kind of.

36:47.97
Case _he_him_
Perspective which is just like kind of fun like again like the the book really enjoys its wordplay where where it can put that in there or like where there's like kind of clever illusions. Um, so anyway, so Laila Starr dies like dies dies like ah is declared dead. Ah, she's. Gone for like 20 minutes and then suddenly she suddenly comes back? Um, but now it's it's death and death doesn't actually know it's not like death like comes in and just like knows all the Lala star details like she just kind of functions. They never really explain what death's deal is now that it's on the living plane.

37:25.00
Case _he_him_
Ah, because she seems to be pretty able to do whatever she wants. Ah like ah like Laila Starr herself is ah is supposedly an orphan who has like no real resources or anything like that and like it's hard to really say like as we see things with her over time like.

37:44.30
Case _he_him_
She seems to be able to like afford a party and stuff. Um, so I don't know if she has like some additional praternatural wealth or anything like that but like or is able to manipulate people by way of being death and that we just don't kind of focus on it because it doesn't matter. Um, but she's because Laila Starr is declared dead twice right?

38:01.76
Jala
So Case this just reminds me of a thing that 8 year old Jala did once upon a time let me tell you the story folks who've listened to my show before know this story but this is probably new to you.

38:18.37
Jala
When I was eight years old and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie came out the first one. The first live action one I went to the theater to watch it and I'm watching it and I turned to my mom and I'm like mom they don't know April yet where are they getting money. They don't have jobs this feels like that. My mom told me just shush and watch the movie. It's a movie. But anyway, who knows maybe Prana gave her some pocket money I don't know you know?

38:46.71
Case _he_him_
But we know that she has some yeah she seems to have some abilities still like ah so it's why it's interesting to me more than anything else. It's not like it's not like that. There's like a specific it. It doesn't matter like it. In fact, it deliberately doesn't matter to the story.

39:00.24
Jala
Yeah, yeah I just wanted to tell the story.

39:03.83
Case _he_him_
Um, it's just interesting to me. Yeah, no I'd like I think we all had the same thought and you know I don't know the Ninja turtles they they who knows they they money could fall through the cracks like the the fountains and stuff.

39:17.69
Jala
I Talk about that with my mom and I'm like mom that paper money is not going to be okay in the sewer and what did they do did they just take the money from those guys they beat up. That's not a good role model mom and she's like what just watch the movie child stop anyway.

39:34.28
Case _he_him_
Yeah, um, so death.

39:36.53
Jala
So yeah, yeah, so so Laila is ah like she comes back to life in this this hospital scenario and I think there's like a little ghost kid that she's looking at.

39:44.10
Case _he_him_
Yeah, yeah, so that's actually 1 of the fun things and and 1 of the spots that really feel Sandman-ish because there's just spirits that like linger around so there is a ghost who is ah bored and interested in watching people die because it's like basically a medical drama. Um, and so this like. Ghost girl is hanging out when she comes back. It's like oh wow I've I've never seen anyone come back like that and when Laila is able to see her and respond to her. She's like wait hold on what's going on and they accept it pretty quickly that it's like oh oh I see your death in in this body. Okay, cool. Um.

40:16.25
Case _he_him_
But the so the ghost girl like works with her to go locate the Baby Darius who has just been born. Um, but also doesn't seem to be like really down for some of it all like so like she like possesses someone to like help Laila get away when she's like ah. When she's on the run from like the medical authorities. Um, but on the other hand she also like tells the name of the baby to make it more difficult for death to you know, just like kill this child.

40:41.92
Jala
Well and then the panel where you like really the baby looks the best in in my opinion like so death's holding up the baby here's the name. Okay, this is Darius or whatever then sees the baby and then like the the panel is like why like crying in the background and then like you know the baby in like cool colors in the front. And like this bright red alarmed background and that's what sets that's the alarm that sets off all of the medical professionals going this late. This girl came back to life goes into the maternity ward or whatever and goes and finds like this baby and is holding up this baby that just got born. And so like they they go after her and chase her down through the hospital and everything but she ends up like not being able to ah, bring herself to kill this child. You know that she sees like just right? as soon as she you know. Ah, picks it up so she just like course I can't how hard could it be just a tiny little thing and then like the girl that little ghost girl is talking to her you know so and and telling her some stuff and just kind of trying to talk her out of of killing this kid and then again like death really quick.

41:53.78
Jala
Sleep develops like a a consciousness and like a wish not to invoke death upon other people including this little kid so then she's like running through the halls and running through the hospital and everything with everybody in tow. The little ghost girl possesses a nurse to slow up. Ah her pursuers. But Laila runs off into the street and then promptly gets destroyed by like a semi or something in the street and dies within minutes of having come back to life. So ah.

42:22.99
Case _he_him_
Yep, and that sort of sets up the the arc of the series where at the end of each issue effectively. She dies in some horrific way. Um, and is brought back by by Prana The the God of life. Ah except every time she dies. It doesn't.

42:36.34
Jala
Yep! absolutely.

42:40.89
Case _he_him_
So here's ah, here's what I find interesting I find it interesting that she is resurrected as Laila Starr each time I think that's the bigger part that I find strange um and why I imagine that it was like the many lives of death kind of thing beforehand and then it was like ok, we'll we'll have it be like the same person every time and that's how ah.
42:59.66
Case _he_him_
You know people will recognize the situation is so weird. Ah, like every time she appears? um so she comes back but she also comes back at various points in time in the future like there's a time jump each time. 

43:15.25
Case _he_him_
When she comes back and it's sort of implied that because she's not supposed to just go and die ah and it's like the fact that the god of life like cares for her is the reason why? Ah why she's being brought back is otherwise she would just be dead. Ah so. Each time. It seems like it's becoming more and more difficult. So the time gap is getting bigger and bigger each time. Um, but at at least at first it's just like yep, it's been eight years or 6 years I get or no eight years yeah um to the the first point where she comes back and then it I um, and then like I said it's just like. Continues to get longer and longer. Ah, but basically each issue ends with her dying and so in some kind of way.

43:57.72
Jala
Right? Well and the thing that I really like about the way that they establish death and prana and like their relationship is that Prana best says at some point in the the comic I think it's one of the later issues. Where he's like I'm nothing without you like death and life are part and parcel of the same thing they they define each other and without the other you know each other they they don't you know like you don't have a definition for life if there is no death so you just exist so there isn't a purpose anymore.

44:34.24
Jala
For life if death isn't there. You know that kind of thing. So ah, you know like that's kind of some of the concept here and yeah, like ah part of where it comes into it's difficult for him to bring her back. Is because he says like I had to pull strings to do this and whatever and so like he's having to do bureau bureaucratic stuff with the other gods is is what it kind of comes across as when he's talking to her about it in those brief moments when he shows up and he's like yeah. I had to pull some Strings. You can't keep doing this blah blah Blah you know that kind of a thing.

45:07.66
Case _he_him_
Yeah, yeah, it's a really nice relationship between the 2 that is happening in the background of everything it's really at the like the the epilogue of every issue. Ah which is a thing I like that it's the end of each issue that sets up how long it's been since or on the resurrection cycle.

45:26.20
Case _he_him_
As opposed to the start of each next issue. Ah so like I said it It feels very much like a ah teaser at at the end for what's what's going to come for the next chapter.

45:37.17
Jala
Right? Well and then too like she's not back in the human world until she's back in the human world. So like you know her being with prana wouldn't be ah you know like the beginning of another life that would be still the tail end of what she was doing on the last issue. So like it makes sense. When it comes to like the cycles of rebirths that she's going through as well because her life starts over when she hits Earth not when she's talking to Prana. So.

46:03.25
Case _he_him_
Oh I took the the talking to prana as her having been resurrected and ah in him manifesting in that plane but um, because like he says specifically how long it's been each time. Ah.

46:12.73
Jala
Yeah, who knows.

46:15.61
Case _he_him_
But I mean it it doesn't really matter because it's um, it's a metaphorical conversation happening regardless of if it's happening in the afterlife or on the mortal coil and it just happens or like the afterlife and it looks like the mortal coil or the mortal coil itself. It doesn't really matter.

46:30.90
Jala
Right? Well I like once she set loose from interacting with other gods is really like where her her next life begins is is kind of the point there still you know regardless of where the actual thing is happening. So so yeah, um.

46:45.93
Jala
As the story continues. Ah we find that the soul destined to bring about eternal life is named Darius we learned this in the first issue actually but ah now he's eight years old he runs away from home to attend a funeral of bardhan which is a man from Southern India who came to work from his family. For his family that he kind of grew up around and bardon dies and the family like they don't care because he was just like a servant to them and like the whole time that he had been alive. Darius felt very upset because like his family treated him like you know a non entity right. Um, didn't give him you know like when they were eating foods and everything they didn't give him any of that and then you know Darius is like well why don't we give Baran some and they're like no he doesn't get that you know and just don't even treat him the same way. So Darius is upset Darius wants to go to this funeral and go see him. He hadn't seen Darius because like his family. Had lived in the country and then they moved and when they moved they no longer needed the services of bardan so you know like he hadn't seen them in several years at that point.

47:50.67
Case _he_him_
Yeah, yeah, this issue feels the most like a like the one that like we're kind of um I don't want to say requires but appreciates you having the cultural context more so than I think the rest of the book. Um, like there's there's cultural context that will come up for later stuff but like for like the general like oh no, no, no like we're in India we're dealing with a caste a caste system here or at least like a the the you know the remnants of 1 um and we're dealing with the the funerary rights because like the the book.

48:28.28
Case _he_him_
This this chapter is shared with like ah Laila's ah adventure shared with a crow who's like a funeral crow. Um, which is a really which also especially like makes gives like very strong ah Sandman vibes. Ah more so than are the others at this point. 

48:46.59
Case _he_him_
So we we deal a lot with like how they handle mortality and and like what are the rituals that everyone participates in because we see them like putting out the like the lotuses in the in the water and we see the like the bed of flowers that they they put the bodies in and.

49:01.23
Jala
And the shaving of the head of the the sun of Bardon and things like that and there is also some kind of like south versus North India stuff going on here so like ah the cultures of the different people of India so the north of indian people are the Arians.

49:17.95
Jala
And then the South Indian are the you know Dravidian peoples and so even even it comes to like the Hindu mythology and things like that The Arian Northern Indians were like the the kind of um, archetype use when it came to the devas or the gods. And then the Southern Indians the Dravidian peoples that were darker skinned and everything they were the template for the asuras or the demons and so like even in their culture. They're demonizing and you know like looking down on the Southern Indian people. So ah. It is implied therefore that darius and his family are North Indian They are Arian people and that bardon is South Indian So like there's also some of that kind of conflict coming in like a racial conflict. So yeah.

50:07.40
Case _he_him_
Yeah, it and it's understood it like it's explained. It's never it's never exposited. Um, it's just it's kind of a thing that happens in the background for everything. Um, but it's an understood detail that ah is conveyed to the audience pretty well.

50:25.39
Case _he_him_
But yeah, it's it's this relationship between this eight year old boy and and you know this this worker for his family that is like so sweet. But so um, you know so abrupt when he dies because like that's the break in terms of his perception of like how things. Just have this like continuity of being and like all of a sudden death becomes a ah a reality to to Darius um, and this sort of sets up his his churning because like he's not familiar with the events of the first book. Um.

50:57.30
Jala
So ah, there is one. So yeah, so like there is a panel. Ah so the the that like they show.

50:57.54
Case _he_him_
You wanted to like talk about the barden like the the crazy drawing for or.

51:07.64
Jala
Darius on the beach and the flowers and you know the tying of the big toast together and stuff and and whatever like they're preparing the funeral pyr and all of that and um, then there's like a flashback where it's talking about Darius's home and you know like the man from South India and everything and then like the like there is 1 panel where it shows the man from South India but like he's really really tall and like you don't see him fully in the panel. The first panel you see him in has him in this wild like super long limbed pose bent over completely like kind of hunched. Almost in like a ah you know, ah 4 all fours kind of position with like ah some kind of an a pick or something where he's doing something with the land. He's he's working the land and he's. Hunched over and you know like he's got these long limbs and everything because again, this is like from the view of Darius as a small child and looking at him and just thinking that this is a giant right.

52:06.60
Case _he_him_
Yeah, yeah, he's his proportions are are very strange and we like they they show it that way. Um, however, we don't really see like good shots that aren't from the memory of darius like even When. Ah even when we show him at at the funeral like he's he's wreathed in flowers. Ah, so we don't really get like ah a a more modern kind of view of the Character. We just see it through this sort of like this child's like lens. Um and it's it's got these like kind of like impossible proportions. Um.

52:33.91
Jala
Yeah, like the the shoulders of bardun are shown to be super hugely. Large and his arms are really really long because again this is from the little kid's perspective and so the little kid looks fairly well, you know like. Ah, proportionate for his his whatever but like every time it shows bardon even if they like the bottom of that same page that I'm looking at um, you know like ah bardon is washing his face and he's bent all the way over to do it because he's so big so big and you know like so massive. Looms so massive in Darius's memory as being you know, like this this kind of force of nature kind of character for him and um, so yeah, but because of all of these big feelings that Darius is having when it comes to the funeral rights. He's going there. He's crying. He's feeling. Bad.

53:26.50
Jala
And ah, he's found on the beach by Laila Starrr who comes up to him and you know talks to him and feels pity feels bad that he's in this kind of situation and kind of wants to console him and and help him work through it and everything because.

53:39.11
Case _he_him_
But notably doesn't know who he is at this point.

53:43.23
Jala
Yeah, doesn't actually know who he is and like that that kind of is a running thing like she doesn't necessarily know who who he is a lot of times like she does end up finding out later but you know like the the question that I have is like would that have even made a difference if she did know because she.

54:01.59
Case _he_him_
Probably not in the moment but ah, it would at least change how she would have thought going into the scene like they they have this like really nice like heart to heart where he's crying and she kind of like consoles him Um, but the reason why he's in a position and she's in a position for it.

54:19.29
Case _he_him_
Is because she's looking for for Darius and she's looking for the funeral. Um, and then like so you know just stumbles on this crying boy um, and then ah she kind of gets like tangled up into the actual funeral itself and ah it participates in. Um.

54:36.64
Jala
Putting the the lotuses out into the water and everything and when she's doing that like then she's like oh maybe I should not have done that because um, like ah she feels the countless hands of the souls she reaped as a God now pulling her under the water.

54:53.66
Jala
Intent upon reminding her of her own mortality and or perhaps it was a riptide who is to say you know like it again. The magical realism It could be just a riptide. It could be actually the souls of the the people that she reaped previously in had.

55:10.26
Case _he_him_
Yeah I want to call out this this ah panel like where the the souls are pulling are down but also the ghost in the previous one. Um, really interesting line work going on with them. Ah rather than it being like black lines on these character are like on the characters who are like ghosts.

55:27.80
Case _he_him_
Um, it's more of an invert of whatever the color of the actual panel is and then the gradient of their actual body sort of creates the scenario where you have like a top form to it and then it sort of like blurs into whatever setting they happen to be in and it's real. It's really aesthetically pleasing as is what I.

55:46.89
Case _he_him_
Want to get at at this? um and the this is sort of like the last like big ghost sequence that happens like the the later supernatural stuff is different. Um, so I just wanted to like call out that one specifically ah because we did mention it before and I I think they look good and I wanted to like praise this book where again. Um.

56:06.63
Case _he_him_
But yeah, so then then she dies and she ah is pulled out of the water by the crow and it's like thanks for saving me. It's like what are you talking about? I'm a funeral crow taking your soul to death or to the land of the dead and then then she's brought to Prana who is.

56:22.45
Jala
Yet again is like well here we go again? Yeah, but yeah for sure and then he's like you know I can't keep bringing you back I'm going to get in real trouble with the guys at the top if I keep doing this. So.

56:38.83
Jala
You know like he has to spread it out several years in between because he can't just you know like people are watching him and they are ah keeping tabs on what he's doing So you know he has to spread it out a little bit. He can't do it back to back to back.

56:52.80
Case _he_him_
Yeah, so previously it was an 8 year jump this is now a 12 year jump so we're dealing with 20 year old Darius he meets death at a party this time and this is a really cool issue that is narrated from the perspective of the cigarette. Ah that ah that that first Laila Starr like smokes and ah.

57:10.67
Case _he_him_
Leaves to burn in an ashtray and he picks it up when he's like depressed because ah his girlfriend dumps him and it turns out that his best friend has just died Um, and so the what's fascinating is the cigarette because it says it it was burst into life kissed by death. It gives it a degree of omniscience.

57:28.55
Case _he_him_
Where the cigarette actually knows more about what's going on than Laila Starr does. Laila Starr is still bound to the limitations of her her mortal frame and this is why I'm like the logistics I find fascinating even though I realize it's not the point it's because it's so cool just like I The the second I realized that this.

57:47.68
Case _he_him_
That this issue was being told from the perspective of a cigarette as it burned I love I just got so here for for it I thought it was such a cool idea. Um I absolutely adore this all. Um, and so we end up with this whole set like heart to heart where like. Laila Starrr who is now living life like is is explicitly going like not really like worrying about like Darius um, she's like they say she's having sex. She's ah smoking cigarettes. She's drinking. She's she's partying. She's she's experiencing all all the things about life. Um. She has this run in with this like very broken version of Darius um, and again kind of like helps him put things in perspective as he tells the story of his friend who ah they had a falling out over this over this girl after the 3 of them were like this big league trio and then was sort of at their like hiding place where they like you know. Put all the like all their marks on the world like all their emotions like all this graffiti that they they put out there. it's burned in a fire it's it's burned in a fire that is started because of ah of a riot. Um, and he's yeah they they frame it as if he's like chased down and and killed. But I think he's just there.

59:00.66
Case _he_him_
When the fire happens in terms of the actual logistics but because the visuals that they they use for this like feel supernatural. Um, it's like they're like demons like rising up and coming for everything. Um.

59:18.94
Case _he_him_
Which is obviously not what how actually happens per se right.

59:23.78
Jala
Yeah, so so in the book it says I imagine he was still at the factory when the rioting mob caught sight of him or perhaps they chased him in there. So. It's not really said, definitely what happened whether or not he was forced in there by the mob or if he was already in there. And was trying to avoid the mob but um, something that I like again kind of about the color scheme and the ah stuff that's going on with this is that the smoke from the cigarette looks baller af um like just when Laila is smoking it. It comes out of her mouth and knows.

01:00:01.90
Jala
Ah, all different kinds of colors Each little part of the smoke is a different color. It's very psychedelic.. There's a lot of gradients and stuff going on and those gradients are kind of applied to every panel involving the cigarette until after that like after the party sequence. Then it switches to like a different kind of palette. That's a little bit more muted. It's not so pastel and psychedelic looking anymore because it's no longer like that party vibe and like they get that party vibe by the color schemes and the wavy lines and and all of that. So That's very cool.

01:00:36.74
Case _he_him_
Yeah, and then it turns out that the cigarette with they just sort of set down as it burns out actually causes the building to catch on fire and no one dies except for a girl who was passed out on the couch. Ah yeah, yeah.

01:00:46.88
Jala
Name Laila Starr. Yeah yeah, so she ends up she has this this talk with Darius they share a cigarette and again like ah they they just kind of you know she talks him through a little bit and then you know he wanders off and then she's there and then. You know, um, you know like she ends up dying and ends up talking to prana again. So and at this point. Yeah yep, yep.

01:01:14.18
Case _he_him_
Yeah, concluding the issue with like with him offering her a cigarette and she says no those things will kill you Ah but I'm tish.

01:01:23.41
Jala
But yeah, at that point when he met her at the party he was 20 so ah then the next time that she starts up again. It's now 16 years after this. So at this point Darius would be 36 so you know like and the next issue she's 36 and um, so prana though. Does ah talk to to Laila at the end of this episode and say ah that Darius Shaw and then he's like you know he was at that party and she's like what oh my god don't tell me I was talking to him the whole time and then so then prana you know. Frana is like yeah you I know where he is if you want to if you want to continue this nonsense and you know gives him gives her that information for her to come back. So so yeah, then she incarnates again this time in a chinese temple or close to a chinese temple rather.

01:02:19.19
Case _he_him_
It's close because she's she gets lost and she goes in there to try to like talk to the local God to see if ah if it can can help her find her way and so she walks into the last Chinese temple in the city. Ah, and.

01:02:35.38
Case _he_him_
Discusses with the spirit who brings up the elderly caretaker. Ah, who comes there but hasn't come by recently which is you know worrying to the spirit who that's his only friend at this point. Um.

01:02:50.27
Case _he_him_
And and this is a spot where they give ah a fair explanation for like why there are these like chinese immigrants in the city who have become integrated into the community and many have left at this point but there's still this one way who decides to stay because he's lived his whole life in in India. Um, and you know barely speaks Mandarin anymore. Even though.

01:03:09.91
Case _he_him_
You know is seen as a Chinese person living in this community like and still like keeps the Chinese values like it's a Chinese temple Um, but has had been fully. Ah aside you know in terms of like what? Ah what his home was This was his home Now. Um. And the temple itself was like his his touchstone to his like his past. Um so death asked ah or rather um, the the the temple spirit asked death to check in on Wayi while he's out or or while while she's out.

01:03:45.71
Case _he_him_
Ah, you know I keep killing Darius yeah like whatever, whatever our plan is yeah.

01:03:47.94
Jala
Gallivanting and trying to find areasius yeah question Mark I mean like whatever she's doing with darius at this point like it's at this point you're pretty pretty well secure in the fact that she's not going to kill him even if she sees him anyway, but you know, ah. Yeah, so so yeah ah she is asked by the temple spirit to go and check on way and you know ah given a lot of stuff that happens in the next several panels you kind of feel like maybe death forgot all about that temple spirit but fear not we will get back to that in a little bit. So ah, she ends up. Finding Darius is at you know, like she has the address and she's like finds it finds her way by asking the temple spirit or whatnot Darius is 36 and recognizes death when she enters his home like she just kind of opens the door and kind of peeks in. She's trying to find him so um. At this point he is really accomplished. He has fame wealth a beautiful home and a family but he is very very ah deeply depressed and upset and at this point you don't know why so he starts getting really aggressive with death and you know again because he recognizes her. Yeah.

01:04:56.98
Case _he_him_
Calls her by her name like he has done research like he knows who she is like in a lot of ways.

01:05:00.89
Jala
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so you know he's just like you look the same as you did when I was 8 you look the same as you did at that party you keep coming back. You keep looking the same what is going on who are you? What do you want? and. You know she's kind of like actually pretty taken aback by all this because you know he's so aggressive and at this point she just kind of wants to talk to him and like she even says that she's like I just wanted to talk to you bro. But like you know he's deeply upset because every single time she appears.

01:05:34.63
Jala
Some bad thing happens Darius has some kind of run in with death not just Laila Starr death but actual death of people around him. So ah, first it was bard on and then it was his best friend and then now you find out that his wife has died of cancer his wife and business partner. So.

01:05:54.43
Jala
Um, yeah, he yells at her. Ah you know he's asking what his wife deserved to be killed in this way or everything she you know he kind of blames her for that and then she's like with that was my department at one time. Was fired I don't have the job anymore. You know? Ah yeah.

01:06:15.45
Case _he_him_
Yeah, well and before that she's coy because she he's like you're you're a God in mortal form and ah and she's like yes I am a God who was fired and now I'm trapped in a human form and he keeps on being God of what God of what.

01:06:30.48
Case _he_him_
Um, it's really creepy like this the the dynamics extremely flipped in this issue. Ah where like the threatening individual is now Darius.

01:06:36.20
Jala
Yeah, well and then too like when it shows the panel of his eyes and he's saying what kind of God like his eyes are very just black and it's a very like Beige Panel. There's not you know, not the vibrant colors that there are everywhere else. You know like this is very muted. It's dark. His eyes are overshadowed and overcast and you know like he's got these deep rings under his eyeballs you know like his he's got deep deep set eyes and you know all of that and he just looks menacing.

01:07:13.78
Case _he_him_
Yeah, because he's he's just so beat up by it like his the so much of his life has been so affected by by death. Um and like when she admits that she was a goddess of death or that she was death he like.

01:07:32.66
Case _he_him_
Destroys the glass he was drinking out of um and you know like cuts up his own hand and that's when you see like the like the newspaper clippings that sort of fill you in on the details of like what happened you know of his wife and like all this and that's when he's like flipping at it her. He's like yelling at her. Um, until.

01:07:51.57
Case _he_him_
And you like you you legitimately think this the circumstances might be going the opposite way until his son shows up and is terrified of his father.

01:07:58.42
Jala
Um, yeah, yeah, and so at that point he does calm down and picks up his son and tries to get away from death stay away from death but he does. Threaten her and say I will find a way to keep you from taking any more of us you hear and you know there will be no place for death here. Not anymore and so she is overwhelmed with emotions and she runs away and you know she's feeling haunted and upset and it's. Pouring rain because of course it is and everything and she's like wandering around and then this is where she experiences guilt for the first time she feels bad that all of this is happening to him especially since she didn't do it and like he's she's being blamed for it. But it's not actually her fault. Ah, in this instance, you know like maybe she used to have that department but that's not her department anymore. So um, yeah, and so in the rain she's outside watching for hours and then she ends up finding out that like she sees a funeral procession go by and way the temple.

01:09:05.50
Jala
Caretaker had passed away and so she goes to tell the temple what happened because the temple had asked her. You know the temple spirit had asked her about checking in on way and then she's like oh by the way. Yeah, he died he died so and um.

01:09:20.20
Case _he_him_
Yeah, and so the the temple spirit asks her to stay the night while the storm is going on and then the temple itself is destroyed in the storm killing only 1 person layo star um, and it's implied that the temple itself like brought its own destruction.

01:09:36.87
Case _he_him_
Ah, that it was so sad that it's last the the last person who who cared about it um was gone that the the temple itself like invited the storm to smite it.

01:09:49.32
Jala
Yeah, and then to like the storm is called Kali which is you know the god goddess of ah death. So I mean not the goddess of death but like she brings death and destruction and she's like the vengeance you know that kind of thing.

01:10:04.55
Jala
So ah, yeah, that that storm comes through the temple is destroyed she dies and then she's back again talking to prana of course and you know he's.

01:10:08.63
Case _he_him_
Yeah, right? Well reading the article about the this the destruction and she's like doesn't even mention me this time hang.

01:10:17.95
Jala
Yeah, yeah, so so yeah and she's again, she's feeling bad and you know she just upset and everything. But then when she's talking to prana. He tells her oh by the way. Your boy hasn't delivered that promise of immortality yet and he's also running close you know close to running out of time. He's dying at this point because ah 28 more years later ah she comes back way way way later after that. So.

01:10:54.17
Case _he_him_
Yeah, so death returns to India as Laila Starr wishing to convey her condolences for the deaths of the loved ones of Darius no longer caring about her old job and barely even thinking of the gods at all. She tracks darius down in Southern Goa

01:11:10.22
Case _he_him_
Ah, where he is known as a drug adult drink maddened hierroon who took in all manners of hopeless Cases and somehow find found a way to keep them alive. His house is filled with wounded animals that he nursed back to health so he becomes like this like super vet um like specifically for animals. But ah, you know, just like.

01:11:28.91
Case _he_him_
The the sequence that we first see is like a dog that's like ah like starved and like has a broken leg. Um and is like just a puppy and this like girl like finds it and brings it to him and he agrees to like work on the dog. Um and he'll you know. Watch the dog but he won't let the girl like stay there the night s's like the deal is like I will help the animals not not the humans. Um, and but you can come back and see your next and as he's escorting her out that's when ah when Laila Starr like walks up. Ah and he's like.

01:12:01.64
Case _he_him_
Well come on in. It's getting dark outside.

01:12:02.10
Jala
Yeah, and he lets her into the house and tells her that he was looking for her after the last time that they had spoke because he felt bad and wanted to apologize after his outburst and death tells him that she just wanted to talk to him and hopefully get him to reconsider his course and at this. Particular piece of information. He just starts laughing and he says each heartbeat. Each breath is a rejection a rejection of death. He said that he invented immortality after his forty ninth birthday and put the secret to an and unending life into a shoebox. Which he placed in the top shelf of his closet where it's been ever since and she asks why he hasn't used the secret yet and he tells her that he has a brain tumor and he's dying so he thought that she was there to take him and that you know like the death this time would be his own death. And he says that in his obsession with immortality. He failed to be present for his son and they mended things but he hasn't seen or spoken to his son in years and so another quote from the book is I realized I spent my whole life chasing a miracle but this is it isn't it. This is the miracle. This place the sand the sky the sea beyond no grand making just a quiet breath taken to yourself.

01:13:22.72
Case _he_him_
Yeah, the so he kind of comes to this point where like he like they they have this like talk and sort of like where they're like looking at at at the beauty of the world. Um, and that's sort of the the point that life is meaningless without death that they're. It. It has to be a thing that has like ah the passage of time to truly appreciate. Ah so that like that's sort of like 1 of the elements of the character kind of like coming to understand that like ending death is its own problem because then you're just consigning everything to technation. Um. And I like how when it's like oh he figured it out. We just see the shoebox that has like a gradient of like of of energy coming off of it. Um, we never actually like really see really what's in there like we see that there's like a more literal like notes and stuff when she like later like looks at the box but like at least when we first see it.

01:14:15.94
Case _he_him_
It's just it's like in pulp fiction with like the briefCase that just has glowing light that comes out of it like as opposed to like it's a mcguffin for the sake of a Mcguffin like we don't need to like go into the details.

01:14:27.85
Jala
So something I want to just pause and talk about for just a second is ah so in here The God of life is presented as prana right? Prana is a force of energy a life force and everything when it comes to Yogic Philosophy. So. Ah, the God of death in Hindu Mythology is Yama So ah something I was just thinking about is that when you're doing breath work. It's called Pranayama Prana God of life Yama God of Death Pranayama is the name of the breathwork and you know like ah. The emphasis here is darius talking about just being and breathing and that's essentially the essence of Yoga philosophy right? there you know like this this is the miracle this this being this breathing this being in the moment here and so like this is like very much like an Indian.

01:15:22.50
Jala
Thought process I mean like it can be um, appreciated by anybody but like there's a little bit of the background there for you. Yeah exactly. So yeah, and ah, yeah, Dary Darius is kept company by death for several different days. She just kind of sits there.

01:15:27.28
Case _he_him_
Yeah, both the inhalation and the exhalation are important to life.

01:15:41.49
Jala
Ah, and and just visits with him as he's going about his last few days because she knows at this point that he doesn't have much time left and he calls his son his son comes and um death turns to leave but darius stops to thank her and asks her to clear out the old shoebox in his closet. He doesn't need it anymore.

01:16:00.84
Jala
And then he dies in the presence of his son.

01:16:05.30
Case _he_him_
Yeah, like finally having a you know having reconciled with the son and reconciled with death. Um like there's the whole thing about him like being at peace with with everything being at peace with the flow like not bitter about like what death has cost him.

01:16:20.28
Case _he_him_
Ah, but appreciating the life that he's had.

01:16:22.60
Jala
Right? right? And um, you know also coming to see that like this kind of feverish obsession with getting out away from death this this fear that has driven his life has kept him away from. Living a fuller life of being there with his son and you know all of that. So ah, prana comes to see death and then holds and comforts her at the end as she takes the shoebox to the water's edge and it's washed out to see as prana and death walk away and. So like 1 of the ending quotes is perhaps it is enough to remember at stories end the miracle that it was simply that it was simply to have lived so you know like the whole point here being like living itself is is really the miracle. And you know like not the the cheating of death but living a full life as you are in the world.

01:17:20.52
Case _he_him_
Yeah, it's it. It is a remarkable perspective of this like whole life of this character. Um and seeing both the the bitterness but also the the peace and the the beauty that is part of that life. Um, yeah, just ah. Like it's It's not what I expected coming into this book.

01:17:40.20
Jala
Well and it also again has some more of the yogic philosophy to it in the fact that you know when he he kind of comes to his enlightenment if you will and he realizes these things as in his older age then he lives a life of service. You know he's he's. Helping to care for these animals and things like that and granted it's not in service to book Immunity. It's in service to these animals but ah at this point like you kind of get the idea I mean like it's not said explicitly but like um. You kind of get the idea that because he's had this kind of failing of communication and whatnot with his son that he just doesn't really want to um, put himself out there again like that with people you know like he feels like he's a cool with trying to help you know, ah live a life of service with the animals for the animals that he doesn't have these.

01:18:34.92
Jala
Conversations with right? but like he doesn't want to ah set himself up for failure again if you will with with other people you know like he's content to to live with the memories that he has and and do his service in his last days. So Um, and like you know he's. Has this brain Tumor. He knows that he's dying and he's still every day taking care of all of these animals so you know.

01:18:57.71
Case _he_him_
Yeah, the the 1 thing that got me with the brain tumor and again this is like 1 of those things where like it doesn't really matter. It's like the story is that he's got the brain tumor. It's like it's pretty far gone. Um, and this is where he's like making amends with the son and everything. Um, he's already like well past like what he was given his time to live when.

01:19:15.50
Case _he_him_
When it starts and then Laila Starr spends time with him for you know several weeks and then he reaches out to his son and I'm like you you should have done that earlier but you know but I think it it takes the the brush with death to to really appreciate it all and to like to make those amends.

01:19:33.95
Case _he_him_
Um I think he needed the the kick in the butt of of reconnecting with Laila Starr. Um, this time.

01:19:40.40
Jala
Yeah, like at this point it's kind of like when he sees her that's when he understands you know, Ok, it's my time now you know, ah because like if she's not there then he must be still live it on you know because she hasn't shown up again.

01:19:56.90
Jala
So yeah, 1 little detail that I wanted to also mention to go into more you know Yoga/Ayurveda stuff. Ah so the box that has the secret to immortality in it is labeled Vata. Vata is an ayurvedic term so there's 5 dosas in ayurveda which mirror the 5 elements so Vata is. Ether or air and it's described as light and cool and dry and nature governs things like blood flow breathing and the movement of thoughts in your mind. So bata is really like the the emphasis on breathing and flow and movement of thoughts and thinking mental pictures and things that's essentially like the entire style of the book. The entire theme of the book is on that that prana you know, like that breathing that life force that comes with just being and existing in the world and that's your miracle and so like.

01:20:50.27
Jala
That's again, like you don't need to know that to appreciate the book but having that little detail. You know it's there for you if you happen to know in and recognize what that word is so yes.

01:21:00.58
Case _he_him_
Yeah, ethereal is a good way to describe this book in general. Um the the narrative flits about and in terms of Chronology There's so much of a visual of smoke or things that are like fading in and out. Um, that have this like kind of gaseous quality to it and. To have like life itself be like expressed in in breath is really interesting and and classic way of looking at it but um is appreciated here. Um I think your your epiphany ah in terms of like the the life death breath cycle part of it I think really kind of like captures that that notion for me. Um, it's like oh cool like the whole thing is about like inhale exhale inhale exhale you know, like like there's almost the exhalation at the end of each issue with this all and like there's so much represented in terms of either like.

01:21:50.73
Case _he_him_
Things flying things smoking things ah like the storms that are out there like there's so much of the atmosphere that that plays a part of of it all.

01:21:58.76
Jala
Well and the piece itself could be called atmospheric and what did I say about those panels they give you room to breathe you know like it's all there. It's all there the whole thing and it's it's artfully done and like again.

01:22:14.30
Jala
Not stuff that necessarily um, you know you're going to pick up on unless you know some of these terms and are aware of some of these different aspects of yoga philosophy and things but like it's there. It's definitely in there and ah, that's that's what's really kind of neat about it because it's subtle. It's not required. Ah, but it does enrich your reading of the book. So um, Daytripper so to to kind of cycle back to that because I'm going to keep talking about that Daytripper is kind of like a magical realism thing each of the chapters and that trade paperback ah is. Basically this one particular guy and the different ways that he could live out his life and it's not like there's not a supernatural thing that happens. There's not like ah a whatever like ah he's just he's living his life. You know different ways and then like he has a sort of consciousness where he you know remembers these. Alternate timelines if you will kind of thing going. Um, but it's kind of a related concept of just kind of looking at the different ways that life plays out like it's not um as I feel pointed as this one is. We're like this one's to a point of trying to make that that observation of no just. Being is the miracle being here is the miracle and you know like people fear death but it is just part of the entire thing and it's just all 1 big cycle and you know like your meaning is here right? now you know, ah like you get 1 concept when you read this book.

01:23:45.65
Jala
When you read Daytripper. It's more complicated. There's other things going on. Um, there's a lot of different thoughts that will run through your head when you read that one? um that one if I'm not mistaken is ah South American ah creators So Brazilian. Yeah yeah, so so there you go So a little bit different take in that particular iteration.

01:23:55.71
Case _he_him_
Brazilian according to Wikipedia. 

01:24:05.49
Jala
But ah, definitely worth a read, especially if you like this book check out Daytripper that one's a very good one as well. Ah, if it weren't for the fact that like that would make this episode 4 hours long I would have said let's do both in the same episode because they pair so well together. But um, yeah.

01:24:23.71
Jala
Definitely Ah, check that out.

01:24:25.66
Case _he_him_
Yeah I think that just focusing on this one is ah is a good choice. The the story flows so well. Um, and I really want to emphasize I can't imagine reading this month over month like that the it I was engrossed the second I cracked it open and.

01:24:41.25
Case _he_him_
I finished it in 1 sitting with that with very little difficulty I I really enjoyed this book. Ah I I see why it's been raved by like friends of mine and like why it was like on my radar to check out and like why when I mentioned it at my local comic book shop. They immediately knew what book I was talking about like there wasn't like had to go look it up.

01:25:00.78
Case _he_him_
Um, it was sold out and so it'd be special ordered but that's you know its own thing. Um, yeah I'm I'm really glad that I read this for the for the pod like this is ah like I said just like a book I really enjoyed it. Um. It makes me think and the the connection is going to sound weird at first it makes me think of the comic likeke Kurt Busick and Stuart Emmerman Superman Secret Identity which is not a very similar book in most regards except it is about the story of 1 character's life. Um, and that.

01:25:33.62
Case _he_him_
I think is a really cool ah story that is reflected the same way here. It's really good to have like a strong art scene combined with really good prose in order to make it so that you really feel this like. This journey of a life over the course of it in a way that's like difficult to do in other media because like the visual component is really Important. You can't do it in ah a traditional movie because the actor actually has to age like you have to go through like the the youth phase as well. Um, and like really appreciate all that and it's difficult to do those kind of movies. Um.

01:26:07.30
Jala
I would also I would also say that like it's hard to do it in a movie style because in the medium of a comic. The person who is reading the comic has the power to linger on the page to turn back the pages to sit with that page as long as they want to and do the breathing right.

01:26:09.27
Case _he_him_
Not that there are none.

01:26:25.92
Jala
That breathing that we're talking about that taking the time that being present in the moment and so like when you're watching a movie you can posit but you can rewind it but like you don't get control over the pacing of it. So um, the medium that it's in is perfect for the whole. Concept that this thing is working with.

01:26:46.98
Case _he_him_
Yeah, and I think that that just speaks to just how strong the comic medium can be to tell these kinds of stories and how it's like 1 where it just doesn't work as well in in a different media. Ah, and so I think that this is a really good use of that I think that. Um, the the sort of the gothic components like the the dwelling on death are are really well representped here. But it's taking it from a very different than like a western kind of viewpoint by having it be kind of celebratory like the color scheme is so vivid and beautiful even even and especially especially when we're dealing with death in this book.

01:27:24.46
Case _he_him_
Um, right from the right from the cover which is Laila Starr falling to her death like it's you know she's represented in these like shadows which makes her look like the the coloration that they show death in in her. You know, heavenly form also with a backdrop of like this you know, beautifully lit city that she's falling to.

01:27:43.72
Case _he_him_
To to die and um, the the whole piece. Um, really just like wants you to linger with these like beautiful images take take a breath when you have a moment ah absorb the things that you need to you know, sit with the the variant covers and all the the different images that. That are going on in this whole thing. Um, you know like like we said with the psychedelics with with the way the memories like have a certain kind of lesson is to it like everything is very different than the way you would expect it to be under a western lens where would be probably a lot of blacks and a lot of like grays and a lot of you know like you know it's.

01:28:22.65
Case _he_him_
The end of the book life and death effectively. Ah prophets you know profess if not their love. It's their their commitment to 1 another? Um, yeah, it's extremely romantic. He's death is or not death. Ah, life is super sexy in this book. Ah.

01:28:29.44
Jala
And then they walk off on the beach together in the sunset I mean you know? 

01:28:42.10
Case _he_him_
Ah, like you you kind of hope that this is ah like also secretly like a little bit of a love story between the 2 of them. Um, which I think it is I take it it at as such um and that is just very different than the way that we would represent this kind of story in a western lens.

01:28:58.25
Jala
Right? right? and I think that's why it's so refreshing and why it's like um I definitely when I saw this I was like no I really want to talk about this I love Daytripper's doing something totally different. But um, you know like there. There's beats and there's there's feelings and stuff in like a certain mechanics that. Ah work in that that are similar in some ways to this but you know this piece is overall like because it's more pointed in the the thing that it's trying to do ah to me feels stronger in a lot of ways ah than dayt trippper does not the daytripper is you know to be. Dismissed or anything but like um this is to a point. It's making one point it's going towards that point you know and the whole thing is centered around this theme. You know in a way that's very very cohesive and well thought out. So.

01:29:51.33
Case _he_him_
Yeah, um, that sort of covers what I have to say about this and I think it's I think it's a really pretty work that is ah you know reflective about ah about a truth. Um, and it's a truth that we all have to experience in some way and.

01:29:54.17
Jala
Yeah, that's all folks. 

01:30:09.21
Case _he_him_
And it changes for us as we get older and so it's the kind of work that you're going to relate to the things that you can remember or the things that you're sort of starting to experience. But then there's going to be an element that just is is a conjecture of like how it's going to feel to be. You know at the end of your life as much as it is at the beginning of your life. Um, and I think this you know.

01:30:29.45
Case _he_him_
Pensively and ah perspicaciously dwells on that.

01:30:31.87
Jala
Right? So I would also recommend folks who like this episode are interested in this topic to check out the Death Positivity episode of my show which is actually very funny. It is probably the funniest episode of my show. Um, but it also trades in talking about. Death and being more comfortable with death as ah as a thing that we have to grapple with in life because we all have to grapple with it and um, so yeah, very good episode to check out the topical episode ah for that for more information about the topic generally speaking um because we as a society in the west. Shy away from death so much and it's bad because it means that we don't have room in our culture for grief. Ah, and we don't have room in our culture for people to ah actually confront death and become comfortable with it like there's a ah removal of us from the. Scenario right? like in other cultures. There's a death care that happens like an after care after someone dies you know like the body is kept by the the families in a lot of different scenarios and cared for by the family here in the west in America at least has not common that that happens usually you know, um. Person as soon as they have passed away like hands off somebody else in a funeral home or something is dealing with it from there. You know it's not something that ah you know we we process well in the west. So um, that episode that I was talking about.

01:32:02.34
Jala
Ah, gives you lots of information ah tells you a lot of different stuff and ah kind of like talks about it and will help you feel a little bit more comfortable with the subject because like especially for folks of our age range. Um, you know like it's a thing that. We all have to consider for our parents for you know other people that we know who have have passed away and like how how do we deal with these things and how do we look forward to you know like our own you know, wishes and things. So. Ah, anyway, yeah, check that out. Also 1 more time Case tell people in the world where can you be found.

01:32:37.31
Case _he_him_
Ah, so if people are curious about that Superman Comic I referenced earlier. We did an episode on my show men of steel which is a Superman and superman adjacent podcast where we talk about the the Superman Archetype and why we find it like ah such a compelling power fantasy. Ah, you can find that wherever you get your podcasts I also do another pass which is a movie analysis show again wherever you get your podcasts or at certain pov.com or on our Youtube Channels certain po ov media ah to check all those out I also host a series called superman analogs on the superman or on the ah certain Pov Media Youtube channel where I talk about characters who are like Superman and and discuss like you know what's what's important about this character in like about a 5 minute kind of like quick here's a knowledge dump ah kind of video so those are cool things to check out if you want to find me and communicate with me.

01:33:27.55
Case _he_him_
Ah, you can go to the certain pov discord we've got a link on our website or any of the things that I post I have a link to our Discord server there. Um, you can also find me on all the attte platforms at Case an except for Instagram where I am holding onto my aamescre name for dear life and that is ketsa coadl five because I was a pretentious kid in high school. Ah, who was into both mythology and also to the legion of superheroes. So you know there you go? Um, so yeah, find find me at Case an or ketzel coatl 5 on on Instagram um, and yeah come say hi because I I like interacting with people. It's it's fun. The the social media world for all the problems that exists. Out there because of it all has also allowed me to meet and interact with so many cool people and I'd always happy to meet and interact with more.

01:34:11.89
Jala
Yeah, absolutely and I think that the Superman Secret Identities comic - wasn't that one of the ones that I pitched to you for an episode for me to be on and you're like we already covered it and I was like oh damn, you know because that that was one that ah definitely was in the pocket for me too.

01:34:20.33
Case _he_him_
It I might have and yeah.

01:34:29.51
Jala
So yeah, ah you could find me anywhere that I may be found @jalachan including jalachan.place where you found this episode and all of the others. So until next time take care of yourself and remember to smile.

[Show Outro]
Jala
Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net!

[Outro Music]