[Show Intro] Jala Hey, thanks for coming! I'm glad you're here. Come on in! Everyone's out on the patio right now. Looks like a couple of people are in the garden. I can't wait to introduce you! Can I get you anything? [turned away] Hey folks, our new guest is here! [Intro music] 00:00.00 Jala Hello world and welcome to Jala-chan's Place. I'm your host Jala Prendes (she/her) and today I am joined by Dave Jackson (he/him). Yaaay! The last time you were on was for Metroid Fusion talking about a video game surprise surprise. 00:21.13 Dave Jackson Woo yay. That's right! Yeah I know that big surprise for me. 00:37.50 Jala Yeah yeah, so now you're on a topical episode I've been trying to mix it up and get some of the folks who have done you know like media stuff to come on for topics and it's been kind of a lot of fun. We did that in ah November with the people who were on for the empathy episode. There were a couple of video game folks there too. So. 00:53.62 Dave Jackson Yeah, and that was a very good episode. Good topic of course good conversation but like you said like those are some of my good friends in the podcasting world and so it's great to hear them talk about something real. You know. 01:07.10 Jala Yeah, yeah, and I feel like there's a lot of people that you know they they have a lot they they feel kind of intimidated by the idea of being on like a topical episode right? but they actually have a lot more to say and a lot more insight into stuff than maybe people realize you know and experience is the biggest teacher so you know regardless of whether or not, you've got a degree in x or whatever you have an experience. You can talk about that. 01:35.11 Dave Jackson Yep, absolutely. 01:45.45 Jala So yeah, and so today we will be talking about body image and weight fluctuation and a lot of like how you're perceived. When you go through like a major weight change. So ah, that's something that is obviously like I've talked about it several times in various places on the internet I've talked about it quite a lot um about where my journey came from but most people don't know that you've also had a pretty big journey yourself just in terms of scope and scale of like the differences between lifestyle stuff and everything like that moving forward into today like you were telling me in the green room ten years ago, you were very different in appearance than you are these days and so like a lot of folks who know you from podcast land don't know any of that. 02:23.95 Dave Jackson Yeah. Yeah, and it's I was like I was saying it's not something that I talk about on any of my podcasts and it's not something that I like bring up in casual conversation because it's not appropriate most of the time like like I think we've talked about it in your discord server. Several times because there are a lot of conversations about fitness and diet and things like that. So I have brought it up there. But I mean a lot of the people who even frequent my Discord server probably don't know because I just I don't talk about it. It's not appropriate most of the time. 03:04.36 Jala Right? I mean like you're when you're talking about a video game. You're not just going to bust out with whatever the reason why it you know I've got space for that is because you know on the level. There's the banter where you just BS for 20 minutes before you start the show and then on my show. Of course it's all about experiences and feelings and growth and everything So like you know we talk about all different kinds of stuff. So um, you know the space is a little bit differently designed there. 03:27.49 Dave Jackson Right. 03:33.28 Jala But yeah, so before we hop into the subject I do want to give you space at the top of the episode to talk about the stuff that you do and where people can find it. 03:39.78 Dave Jackson Sure. Yeah, so I do 2 podcasts that again are are not really related to this topic at all aside from me being a person who has gone through these things. My first podcast is Tales From the Backlog which is a video game backlog review podcast every episode. It's weekly episodes. Every episode is a different game. They're usually older games not retro most of the time you know quote retro but usually stuff that's not I'm not on the cutting edge of new stuff I'll just say that so like even when I do a new episode like the episode that that you were on Jala. Um, that was Resident Evil 4 Remake and that episode came out like five months after that game released so we're not on the cutting edge. So by the time those episodes come out those are backlog or wait for sale type of games. You know so that's what I do on that show. Um, it's a it's as deep a dive as we can with no spoilers and then a hard spoiler break and then everyone who hasn't played it doesn't want to get spoiled can jump out and avoid the spoilers and then after that we do the full discussion. Um, you know full spoilers and then I have another podcast called A Top 3 Podcast. Which is much simpler. It is top 3 lists and sometimes we draft you know topics. You know, drafting childhood toys and then figuring out whose house. You're going to go play at or something like that. So those are my 2 shows. 05:06.51 Jala Yeah, yeah, and also I will say that I've taken cues from you on various things about the way that you organize your show and I'm like you know I really like the way that flows on Dave's show I'm going to steal it. So. 05:17.85 Dave Jackson Oh hell yeah awesome I Love that I steal stuff from other people all the time. Yeah. 05:24.40 Jala Yeah, ideas are free woo unless they're patented but not in this case. So yes, yes, and then ah so definitely ah check those out. Dave is awesome if you didn't already know this if you are if you somehow don't already know Dave Jackson come on come on the Dave Jackson 05:40.69 Dave Jackson Um, thank you Jala that's right, that's right. 05:43.21 Jala Ah, real Dave Jackson so yeah yeah, definitely go check out all of his stuff. It is awesome and ah several alumni of my show have also been alumni on Dave's show which started before my show did so they've they've been on there too. So lots of folks that you might know like. 05:55.80 Dave Jackson Right? Yeah, like. 06:02.81 Jala Adelaide and moon and other folks. So yeah, definitely. 06:03.58 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah, and from from that you know that that empathy episode we referenced earlier Matt Stormageddon and Nick, other alums of Tales From the Backlog. Yeah. 06:15.87 Jala Absolutely and Adam Bucceri has been on so many times. But yeah, definitely a lot of ah shared folks there. 06:31.69 Jala So I do want to remind everybody that we here at Fireheart Media also have a Ko-fi! You can support this show by going to ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia and either dropping as a one-time donation or subscribing and yes there are patroneers just like Patreon and there's extra goodies and. Hopefully fingers crossed ah that stuff stops blowing up so I can release it by the time this episode comes out hopefully we will have some extra bonus shows going. So check all of that out at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia yay so let's go ahead and dig into the concepts of. Body image and weight fluctuation. So yeah, so the academic part on here. We're not going to dig super deep on for today's episode because body image. The extreme form of body like negative body image is body dysmorphia and we've already talked about that on a prior episode of the show. So definitely go check out the Body Dysmorphia & Gender Dysphoria episode and Fatphobia episode. That's another good one about similar topics. So ah, but we will still talk a little bit about what body image is and then kind of segue from there into just our experiences and in our histories with. 07:12.92 Dave Jackson Let's do it. 07:49.50 Jala Weight fluctuation and and what all has happened for us. So ah, getting started. Body image is a complex emotional experience. It is the mental representation. An individual creates of themselves which may or may not have any relation to how one appears. Body image is subject to all kinds of distortions from the attitude of 1 ne's parents other early experiences internal elements like emotions and other factors. The severe form of poor body image as I mentioned is body dysmorphic disorder. Which again that was episode 32 go back and check that and then body dysmorphic disorder can also lead to eating disorders which was covered alongside fat phobia on episode 34 so passing off to you Dave. 08:45.77 Dave Jackson Oh you want me to read sorry Okay, yeah, ah body image can relate to what a person believes about their appearance. How they feel about their body their height their weight their shape and how they sense and experience. Their body so not just the person standing in front of the mirror you know looking in shame or something like that or in a good way I Guess we're focusing on more of the negative way I would suppose although we might get into some positive body image later. Um. But yeah it there is more to it than just you know the person standing in front of the mirror telling themselves. You know you need to lose weight or something like that. Um, which which is ah it's It's good. To note, it's when you think of body image. Um, that's the thing that comes to my mind. 09:29.48 Jala Yeah. 09:39.52 Dave Jackson Um, and it is more than just how you feel about your weight. It's everything about your body. Although we are going to focus on weight today. 09:45.44 Jala Yeah, yeah, absolutely and that's why I wanted to put these definitions in here because most people when they think body image they're thinking like in terms of weight or or you know like hyper fixation if it's dysmorphic hyper fixation on. A certain thing that you don't like about yourself or whatever. Um, but it's also like the sensation of being in your body. The experience of your body and you know of course how you feel about your your body. That's that you know your height Even that's not something that you can. Change Necessarily like there are wild surgeries I've heard about for that but like like leg extensions you can get actually. But um, you know as other side aside from like wild surgeries and stuff you can't really change your height but like your general shape your weight your your appearance as. 10:40.92 Jala Regards like the social expectations placed on you and because we have an assigned male at Birth individual and an assigned female birth of ah individual on this particular show. We can talk about those differences and what those expectations are and how we interface with those. So. 10:56.11 Dave Jackson Yeah. 10:59.78 Jala So yeah, and then also like what somebody believes about their appearance is an important part because that's like in your own head. It has maybe nothing to do with actually your body but it's in your head and that's part of your body image as well. Regardless of whether or not it is quote unquote substantiated. 11:18.48 Dave Jackson Right. 11:18.74 Jala It's still part of that image. So yeah to help Curb Negative Body image This is pulled off of articles. So don't scream at me preemptively I'm going to say that because ah, you know this is this is what's out there I did a lot of searching around. This is what what I find. 11:38.33 Jala So people ah doctors and such psychologists and things suggest to curb negative body image in body dysmorphic disorder they recommend curbing the use of social media and of so curbing the use of selfies as well because if you're snapping selfies of yourself. And you don't like what you're seeing then you're just going to hyper fixate on that and it's going to worsen that situation and also with social media. Not only now do you have people who are like fitness influencers who stockpile their photos and we've talked about this on several other episodes of the show. Um, including like the internet and identity episode fat phobia episode and so on um, not only do they stockpile photos from when they're in their best shape and then use those photos throughout the year and recycle them so followers don't even know when the photo was taken but there's also photoshop of course. Now. There's Ai in Ai that is so convincing that people don't know that it's an Ai person. So ah, it's getting worse when it comes to that little part of our brains which is totally natural to humans that wants to compare ah ourselves to everybody. So. 12:52.51 Jala That is true like this is this is true like these things can cause a problem. But if you stop using social media. What do you have? you have somebody who becomes far more isolated. You know, um because so much of our interactions these days are on some form of social Media. Or other kind of platform like that is is a big problem that I would suggest. 13:15.97 Dave Jackson Yeah, this is you know also on top of those other media influences that have been there for a long time now like when I was a kid it was you know the people on Tv or the actors in movies are portraying unrealistic you know body standards for people. But that was when I was a kid and there was no social media or anything like that so things are just it's compounding now. 13:40.52 Jala Yeah, and 1 thing that I want to say too about this. These doctors are recommending this and yes it can be helpful to some degree potentially but it doesn't solve the problem of how you feel about your body. It's managing. 13:58.80 Jala Symptoms which is something we talked about on the toxic masculinity episode when we were talking about toxic masculinity causes and like how do you curb that and it's like it's all management of symptoms not actually treating the disease if you will. So um, that's the same problem here when it comes to just like your body image. 14:18.53 Jala So um, again stuff that doctors suggest for improving your body image can be anything from taking action that you have whatever action that you have available to yourself to help make your physical body line up with your desired image including. Getting more activity you're working on self-care so you don't look super tired or appreciating what your body allows you to do and and kind of like forming a gratitude practice people hear that a lot from like self-help um, kind of circles in things as well. 14:55.32 Dave Jackson Yeah, this um, it's really interesting like that What we I guess we'll talk about this when we get into experiences but but reading this. Um this is like a whole new world of um. You know ways to improve your body image because when I was when this was a bigger part of my life and it it still is a big part of my life but when it was like maybe the the biggest part of my life there. No One told me about this stuff. It was just action. Action was the only thing. That was suggested to me. 15:29.31 Jala Yeah, and the thing is is I think that most people when they think about I want to lose weight the the only thing that they are thinking is that they have to do something and that they are at fault if they are not. And you know, ah some of the stuff that I've been studying this year and trying to disseminate the information of throughout the year on my various episodes has been stuff from say for example, lindo bacon ah with her body respect and health at every size stuff about just like. Coming to terms and understanding like your body and being so feeling safe and content with who you are and you know like the body that you inhabit because you know society makes you feel like you have to be a certain way. Because that's the expectation foisted on you like um I mentioned this before but for me when I was growing up because I'm a little bit older I grew up in the era where and when I was little and a teenager. All of the women who were considered attractive were teeny teeny tiny teeny teeny tiny. 16:43.90 Jala And so I was taught that women needed to take up less space. They needed to be very small and that would be how you would be attractive and if you work very small then you weren't Attractive. So. That's what I had going for me and that's the the stuff in my brain when I was looking at myself and trying to form my body image. 17:02.98 Dave Jackson Yeah, and I'm happy to see like I'm not super plugged in to a lot of stuff. Actually if you can believe it but I am happy to see you know I do catch these things with like ads with um. Models who are not like the people you just described that like large companies are doing to like show people that don't look like that and normalize it. Um, so I am happy to see that that is not always the case Now. It's still probably the majority of cases but it's. Things seem to be getting a little bit better in that way at least from my perspective however limited it is. 17:41.46 Jala Right? And I've been seeing as well. You know ads that are placed in front of my face because of my algorithms and things a lot of um, you know advertisements and stuff that show bodies of different um gender presentations or identities and. 17:57.73 Jala Different sized folks and it's not like even companies grrrl.com. Yeah sorry G R R R L Dot Com For example is one of the fitness clothing brands I Really love because even though that's like a gendered thing there like um, the. Owner of it used that word girl because she's really focused on you know, trying to lift up women of all all women not just um, assigned female at Birth Individuals Trans full everything else as Well. Um. 18:31.75 Dave Jackson Right. 18:36.93 Jala She's she's not Exclusion. You know, excluding people well in her company line. All of the sizing is done by model name and the models have different body types So you've got something from the teeny tiny like ah martial Arts World champion person. But then you also have a huge strong power lifting tall lady you know and this that and the other and there's lots of different shapes and sizes for these athletes and the names of the sizes are according to that. Athlete's name. So. 19:11.55 Dave Jackson That's cool. 19:12.64 Jala And I dig that because I found somebody who looked like me and I'm like that looks like my size and sure enough that was my size and yeah, that's great I mean like that's all you need to do is eyeball it. You know for something stretchy like a ah fitness apparel right? So very cool. But so anyway like there are some things that have. 19:31.76 Jala Progress made you know out there in the world. Still yes, there's there's still like the chronic a lot of not all but a lot of models are still in that kind of like um, super tiny. Ah you know. Struggling with eating disorders type situations and things like that. But there are slowly but surely changes being made where that's not as often the case. So but now we have ai so I mean like now everybody's going to see ah Ai and then think that that's. 20:02.11 Dave Jackson Ah, yeah, oh my god you just reminded me sometimes I get these ridiculous Ai ads I don't know if you've seen them because you're plugged into like lifting stuff too. But there are these ridiculous ads that show like. 20:05.47 Jala That's how real people look and and it's enough. 20:20.30 Dave Jackson Ah, they're titled like what a bodybuilding man should eat at every age. It's all Ai so it's complete nonsense. Um, but the pictures that they use. It's it's these if you told an ai to make like ah a big power lifting dude with like a 24 pack 20:39.75 Dave Jackson They would draw these. They're so funny to look at because they're so ridiculous, but like that's what people are getting shown and you know if there was someone who's a bit more impressionable maybe me twenty years ago or something like that I would be like oh okay I got it. 20:57.26 Dave Jackson I guess I need to eat what totals up to like nine hundred calories a day and I'll look like this guy. 21:04.94 Jala Ah, yeah, yeah, and the thing is is I kind of giggle a little bit about that. But it's like this that kind of sad giggle. Um, because you laugh so you don't cry like we've talked about it on on other shows before but like um I feel bad for the people who are growing up right now. That's just. 21:22.41 Jala But it that way. Um like my niece and nephew I'm worried for them I hope that they they turn out. Okay and it's not like anything to do with my sister I Just mean the world. Yeah, so but some yeah but talking about action though. 21:37.94 Jala Action can be a double-edged sword you can exercise and adjust your eating patterns in a healthy way but you can also be really really destructive with it. We will get there I've talked about it before when we were talking about um aphobia and eating disorders and stuff. Um. Did not have an eating disorder at any point but I had disordered eating which is a little bit different. Um, we'll we'll get there but anyway appreciating what your body allows you to do is important but it's also very difficult for folks who are in marginalized groups and or dealing with. Ah, variety of stressors and responsibilities. It's like oh you want me to then sit here and appreciate all the stuff my body lets me do when I'm working 3 jobs and I can't even feed myself because my children need to eat like you know, um, that's really not.. There's not any spoons left for that. 22:30.83 Jala You know what? I'm saying you know what I mean So there's. 22:31.00 Dave Jackson Yeah, There's definitely a place of privilege where my perspective comes from especially when we get into experiential stuff where like there's a lot of ways that I wouldn't have been able to do any of this stuff or think about it in this you know. Positive helpful sort of way. 22:49.32 Jala Yeah, yeah, and it's the same for me too like the fact that I had the capacity to do what I did was you know like I'm I'm coming from a place of privilege that I didn't have to work 3 jobs to do like did I at some point have three jobs. And also do all this other stuff. Yes I did actually but I was living by myself I didn't have any dependence or anything so still. Ah not as as hard, a hard knocks of a kind of situation. You know, but um, yeah, and so. 23:17.89 Dave Jackson Right. 23:24.93 Jala I've already mentioned before like body respect and health at every size and the importance of also like there's a certain level of yes you are enabled to do stuff within your means to get yourself where you want to be and yes, some kind of activity. And you know eating healthier and stuff is good for just your overall health and well-being, but there's also a certain degree to which like acceptance is also part of that as well like accept your genetics For example, like that's not something that you can change. So. 24:01.59 Jala Safe for example and this is not a weight necessarily related but like my my body's built like a box I have a very short torso I have what looks to be long legs I'm five foot four I look in photos as if I'm very tall because I have the superhero pose but I am I'm short as hell. And I have a very short torso I cannot get like an hourglass figure to save my life I look like a box and that's because my genetics are such that the way that I grew my um rib cage is very close to the top of my hips I don't have a natural dip there I'm never going to look like Jessica Rabbit unless I do. 24:39.73 Jala Like super super corsets to start squeezing my innards up and down and and everything which we're not doing so ah you know and and things like that. So I come to accept I will never have an hourglass figure. So instead I personally because I. 24:58.99 Jala Am in a privileged position to be able to work myself out you know and everything I worked on building a muscle Hourg glasss. So that's where I am I have broad shoulders because of my muscularity and that evens out with my big hips and now I have a muscle hourglass. It's. 25:16.35 Dave Jackson Hell yeah there we go? Yeah, ah we I think um, we'll get into it a bit in the experiential section too. But like there's all kinds of stages of acceptance through all kinds of stages of you know, body changes and stuff like that and that's. 25:33.57 Dave Jackson 1 of the hardest parts about um the stuff we're going to talk about. So yeah I'll definitely I'll save that I guess for a little bit later. Um, but it's not a I mean it's you know you you can make um you can have self-acceptance at the beginning of a process or like as a first step or something like that. But then it's just it's a continuous thing as you go. 25:55.80 Jala Right? And 1 big thing though self-acceptance is super super important because regardless our body is constantly going to change anyway like right now I'm going through all of the fun of of dealing with like. 26:08.17 Dave Jackson Yep. 26:13.95 Jala On again off again para menopause so I've got that going for me because I'm old so you know like that has a lot of physical changes that happen because my hormones are doing weird shit. So. You know, um I've been experiencing that and I haven't really talked about it on Mike much but I have been talking about it a little bit here and there in my server as stuff has come up and I'm like well this is fucking new. Yeah, so um, and so you know like. 26:41.84 Jala If you come to to like you if you work real hard on your body image you work real hard on on your physical actual physical body and not just your image like your self image. But um, you know your your body itself and you get it to where you want it. 26:57.21 Jala It's it's you know like you're not going to be there Eternally, It's not going to be like that moment frozen in time forever. Your body is always going to be changing and it's super important that you accept the and go with the flow because you don't have a choice you flat don't have a choice. 27:02.36 Dave Jackson Right. 27:11.79 Dave Jackson Yeah, and yeah, and there there might be a point in the you know if you are going on some kind of ah you know body change. There might be a point where you have to accept that your goal. Was just never going to happen in the first place and I'll expand on that later like not in a defeatist kind of way but it was like oh I actually did the thing that you know I needed to but it didn't meet the expectation I had at the beginning and now I need to accept that my so my own self standard has to change. To like reflect reality you know. 27:47.98 Jala Yeah, yeah, well, that's that's a ah ongoing regular kind of thing that happens when folks get into like major lifestyle overhaul of any sort ah people very often have these super high expectations because of things that they've seen. 27:51.65 Dave Jackson Yeah. Yes. 28:05.23 Jala Again, like out there in the world on you know in games or movies or on social media and then they think I can do that I can 100% be exactly like that and you know everybody's journey is different. Everybody's end result is going to be different so there is a certain degree to which um. You know? Yes, sometimes you can get to that particular thing like say for example, people always always always tell me oh I'm so envious of your abs when I'm really cut I'm not really cut right now. But when I am people are like oh my god your abs. Well you know like if you were a assign male at Birth number 1 your fat gathers right in your Abs. So. Keep that in mind you know like that's a physiological difference right? there in your genetics that I can't help you with you know, like that's that's already a disadvantage to you right? So ah, that's 1 thing but then also different people's um, you know, genetics and overall. 28:56.60 Jala Have something to do with where they're they're going to be able to lose fat from first and where they're going to be able to like what they're able to do with you know the the kinds of training and stuff that happen like different people's bodies react differently they they might have like a ballpark where they might get in the same approximate area but you know like you might. Always have a little bit of fat at the bottom of your belly. Even if you have a super low overall body fat total or something you know? Yeah yeah and like some the abs especially like abs are partially genetics. That's a genetic thing in part. 29:22.53 Dave Jackson Yeah, can confirm. 29:35.70 Jala Um, it is also related to nutrition very much about nutrition and of course the kind of training you do, but you can train your abs until the cows come home and still not get a 6 pack dependent upon like ah any number of other factors. You know like sometimes that's that's harder to achieve and. Um, really, it's about that tradeoff like do you really want to sacrifice the things that you would have to sacrifice to work against your genetics to get there. You know, um, which again like that that's like I would have to wear a corset for ever. It to and you you know like have all of my organs rearranged and stuff to try to get that. Ah super slim hourglass figure right? That's something that and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. So. 30:23.24 Dave Jackson Yeah, and I yeah and I would have to like me personally in order to get that I would have to drop to a very unhealthy body fat percentage. Um, which which we'll we'll talk about a bet later I was not. At that like very unhealthy level but I was getting there and it still wasn't happening So That's you know again, it's something that I just had to be like okay this is just how it is in that. That's just not going to happen without. Like you said like a sacrifice that I'm not willing to make. 30:57.16 Jala Right? Because like guys can get a 6 pack with a trainer in their face doing the whatever but you want to know how much extra effort and and you know hoops you have to go through to get to that point like it takes a lot of work to get there. 31:16.28 Jala You know and for the average person who is just walking around doing their day to day they they are not actually willing to do the the degree of stuff you have to do in order to get there and then you know what the worst part about it is once you get there what it Then how are you going to maintain that. 31:34.94 Jala You know and that that is like you have to commit for the rest of your life to doing that if you want to keep that look right? So so yeah, ah, let us move on to the experiential part because we keep on talking about. We're going to talk about it later. So let's talk about it now. Ah. 31:50.90 Jala So ah, question number 1 What was your body image like when you were a kid and or a teenager Dave I'll kick to you since I've been talking a lot. 31:59.93 Dave Jackson Sure. Yeah, so um I think since maybe like sixth or seventh grade I was always bigger than ah, a lot of people. Um. Weight wise not not I mean I am taller than a lot of people I'm not super tall but I am tall ish but I was always oh I'm um, five eleven so yeah above average. But I don't like hit my head on stuff so that's good. Um. 32:17.66 Jala How tall are you always obsessed. Sorry oh that's a lovely height. Sorry to interrupt continue. 32:33.14 Dave Jackson Ah, ah, but yeah, like ever since then I was I was always um, bigger and then like I did especially during and after college like I was a very unhealthy weight my heaviest I was around 300 which as a five eleven person is is too much much too much for me and it was um, like not it was not a healthy 300 it wasn't like I was ah an offensive lineman or something like that like it was just you know, not not good, but as far as body image goes um I was you know obviously aware of that but I was kind of in the middle as far as body image goes like I I didn't I wasn't like real mad about it or I wasn't really down on myself about it. A lot of times. Um I wasn't happy with it. But I wasn't on that other far negative end of the spectrum either. So I was kind of in the middle and so it's like we'll we'll talk in us in a later in the discussion about like why I made the change that I did and it really wasn't body image. Um, but that was obviously. You know something you think about every time you take your clothes off or something or every time you try on a shirt and you're like this just I just don't like the way this looks with the way my body looks or something like that. Um I guess ah one I I did grow a beard at the beginning jolly you've seen me with a beard. You've never seen me without a beard. 34:06.21 Dave Jackson Um, I've had a beard since I was in high school Definitely since college and the main reason I grew it was to cover up my my chin and my neck because I didn't like the way it looked when I was bigger so there's a body image thing for sure. Um. 34:20.17 Jala Oh I've got a body image thing about my neck that I'll talk about later too. Yeah, go ahead. 34:26.51 Dave Jackson Okay, yeah, no I mean I think that's I think that's about it just to to answer this question like when I was a kid and when I was a teenager Um, you know obviously aware that. I didn't have the body that I would pick out of a magazine for myself, but not on like a super negative end of the spectrum Either I think that example of me like growing a beard to cover up my my chin and my neck is the biggest you know. Way I covered up some shameful feeling about the way I looked. 35:02.28 Jala Right? right? So for me when I was really little I was a very hyperactive child. Um I ah not I say hyperactive um, not like ah AdHD type but like I was very active. Let me just ah cut the hyper out of there. 35:20.12 Jala Um I was very active very always moving kind of like a ball of energy and I was always doing stuff and um I was kind of like on the skinny side as a small child. Ah, but then my family when I was about 8 ah eight years old ended up moving state. And we started over but then right at first there were a lot of problems because we moved to the Miami area and stuff over There is very expensive. The cost of living is very high. My mom ended up having to go from being a stay stay-at home mom to being you know working mom. So then we became latchkey kids. 35:56.63 Jala Um, my dad owned his own contracting business and had to start that over again from scratch and then people would pay but then their checks would bounce and things like that so we were struggling financially for a long time so we weren't in a great area and this caused me to become an inside kid because we had people literally shooting at our house at different points. 36:16.28 Jala Have stories. Um, so because of that I turned into a and very introverted I used to be extroverted a very introverted shy child who played video games and read a lot and wrote stories and Drew and that was me for years and years and years. 36:33.92 Jala So um, and then everything was chaos from basically the time that we moved ah to and then moved around further and continued to move on through high school all through high school. Um I was still that shy. You know. Not outside at all kind of child who was just like so just busy off over there doing my own thing and I was heavier set when I got to college then I became like fluffier still because. I was working full time and going to school full time and I was exhausted in not being able to eat right and getting like 2 hour naps in between things I didn't have time to take care of myself. So remember that privilege we were talking about I didn't have any ability to do any kind of self-care routine. 37:28.40 Jala Because I was trying to just pay for things and like get my grades and not fail and so ah, you know that was my situation for a long time and then basically ah later on ah like this is this is way past teenagers. So ah, we'll put a pin in that and we'll talk later on about where. 37:47.89 Jala My change came from and why but but basically I had a major switch from being you know like a very very active child that was just everywhere to being the inside kid who didn't do stuff like did lots of stuff but didn't do active physically active type stuff. 37:48.11 Dave Jackson Yeah. 38:06.31 Dave Jackson Yeah, actually now that you mention it like I think around definitely around like middle school time I definitely started to stay inside and play video games more with my time. Um. Instead of like going out and playing sports with the kids in the neighborhood or something like that that I did when I was like a little kid. Um, but then like I feel like I always stayed relatively active but I just I didn't eat healthy at all. That was one of the big things. Um I was the guy in like. 38:38.79 Dave Jackson High school who would like eat other people's you know like they didn't eat something from their school lunch. They give it to me and I'd eat it or um, we we have a ah fond memory with me and ah some of my high school friends arby's used to do this 5 for $5 like roast beef and cheddar sandwich deal. 38:58.30 Dave Jackson And we we would each go and get 5 of them and eat them and then I would eat the leftover ones that the other guys didn't eat so like I was the just endless appetite guy which which definitely didn't help I still am at the endless appetite person I like. I know how to control it now but I still I still can do that if I want to for some reason. 39:22.82 Jala Yeah, well and then too everybody slips into emotional eating at some point in their life. Sometimes you know they you lean into it a little bit more than others and so like I've definitely had my emotional eating binges or whatever. Um, and that kind of a thing can also. 39:26.41 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah. 39:40.11 Jala Be a thing depending upon the stressors and stuff in your life. So. 39:43.31 Dave Jackson Or or even just um for me. Personally this is a little bit later in life but still when I was um, well even even well past after I lost Weight. Um, if I drink or if I smoke weed I eat a ton. It's ah, a like. Like binge eat almost um if I especially if I'm drunk. It's a real problem and it's something that I have to like coach myself on every time. Well I don't really get drunk that often anymore. But when I was going out to like the bars and stuff like that. Um, that was also a thing. 40:17.67 Jala Yeah, well oh oh yeah I talked about like physically what was going on with me I didn't tell you my body image. So um, when I was a kid a little kid again before that big move that changed everything. Um I didn't really think. 40:31.87 Jala Much about myself one way or the other um I had a little tomboy haircut and I ran around with my little tomboyfriend and we beat the but like I was the bully beater. You know I protected other kids from from bullies and stuff like that and I don't know I was I was you know I was sometimes shy. 40:49.50 Jala But otherwise like I was just active and whatever and I didn't really think too much about my body when I was very small. Um, but then when I got to teenhood and then I turned into the inside kid then like. That's when I started to being being super introverted and and you know absorbing all of these different stories and writing stories and this that and the other then like I started to feel more self-conscious, especially when I hit puberty and ah part of that is because my sister. Have an older sister. She's four years older than me so when she hit puberty she grew all over and I looked at her and I'm like oh so I guess that's what I'm going to look like and you know I've told this story before but like ah her chest grew and I'm like oh wow. So that's nice. Okay I guess that's what I can look forward to when I hit puberty and then I hit puberty and nothing happened nothing happened and then I got really self-conscious because I'm like oh ah, that's not what I was expecting and I also had scoliosis and it was diagnosed. 41:51.22 Jala Ah, after that that point when everything was still calm and cool. It was diagnosed in that same chaotic period So I had to wear a back brace at night and I was self-conscious about that and the fact that my back was crooked and ah kids would make fun of me when I was in Pe and I was running because they told me I ran weird. Ah, just because they knew I had a back brace. It's not because I actually looked weird running um and that actually was the reason why later later on in life I ended up deciding that I was going to start running because I hated it thanks to the trauma that I experienced as a child and so I I was like you know what. 42:28.90 Jala I'm going to do it until I like it until I'm not scared of it anymore and then I started running marathons and Ultra marathons. So I got over it but ah, but yeah, so so like I had a lot of ah had a lot of trauma I was very self-conscious because I had a lot of acne. 42:46.63 Jala So I Also felt bad about that. But then also um, because ah you know diet stuff like we we were living for a long time with an aunt and an uncle and the aunt had a lot of sweets around like my mom didn't really have a lot of you know treats around the house or anything. So um, you know we ate better previously. But then when my mom was working it was kind of whatever dad you know in the in the house and that's that's what we would eat was just like whatever snacks you know, easy to grab stuff and then that's where my eating got worse and you know it just kind of went from there spiraled out and then like. 43:21.78 Jala I still have journal like a journal entry from back when - '95 - when I first started writing ah a handwritten journal I was what was I like 13 something like that and I was comparing myself to a character from lunar in her weight that was put put. Inside of the little ah instruction manual and I was self-conscious about my weight because she was my height and the weight you know was like 40lb different from me and I was like oh my god you know oh my god in doing that comparison thing but to a fictional character they came from Japan. 43:54.54 Dave Jackson Yeah I was going to say and of all the fictional characters in a game a character in a game like that. Yeah, that's rough. 43:58.85 Jala Yeah, ah, yeah, yeah, so ah, yeah, so that's where I ended up I was very self-conscious, very self-conscious of myself and um, not feeling like you know, feeling frustrated because um. Who I was as a person changed so dramatically at around the age of 8 eight and a half when all of that stuff happened and like I didn't like what I had become overall and that was not just the body image that was a lot of stuff you know. so so yeah 44:34.77 Jala Ah, that's that's the beginning anyway for me. 44:36.12 Dave Jackson Yeah I as far as like body image goes I was curious I mean I think I probably already know the answer to this and you you gave the anecdote about the character from lunar but like was your body image affected a lot by. Ah, bunch of outside sources like we talked like we talked about with you know people on Tv or people on magazine covers or something or other people in video games and stuff like that. 45:04.55 Jala Oh so I will tell you this Ah while you were saying that it made me immediately think of watching and living color I loved in living color I never watched Snl because we didn't have cable but like I watched in living color all the time and there was a character that Jim Carey had and I forget what her name was but she was the um and fitness instructor lady who was super gross because she was muscular and that was again that was one of those things that I saw when I was younger and the thing is is that I looked at Jim Carrey in the outfit and I'm like but she looks so wonderful. Why would why would they do this. 45:40.46 Jala And I didn't understand like why her being fit and and strong and everything was a problem and so I was really upset by that. Um I also have mentioned before that I would look for some kind of female character that I could look up to that was something like. Something approaching what I wanted to be like and it was really hard like most of the characters that I liked were the tomboy type characters that ended up over time as different shows progressed you know, having to cater to the male characters are falling in love with them or like there. There are basic traits. 46:19.10 Jala Changed drastically from their first appearance like say for example, Babs Bunny on you know, Tiny Toons when she first showed up she was really tomboy and then she became girlier and girlier and pandering to just falling in all over herself for Buster and being kind of a lackey a lot of times and then the same thing happened like Demona. Demona was awesome. 46:38.45 Jala And then Demona was nuts like just she was just you know, but in PTSD land and all kinds of wild and I don't even know like as that show went on. She'd like the only female gargoyle was like who was badass turned into just like this this unrelatable character and. You know there were other situations like that about the only character that I really saw in anything that I really was like okay that that would be 1 is Xena that's it. So and even there they always tried to shoe horn Aries in to make Aries like come and save the day sometimes and have her like also saved by a dude sometimes and I'm just like please. 47:20.29 Dave Jackson Yeah, the the reason I asked you is because you know I I've been thinking about this as our experiences are so different. Um as a ah white man. Not none of this really affected me. It's it's just there's you know that. The world is is almost catering to me. Ah, and so even if I have you know? Ah let's say I don't like the way I look I still see in high school I see Jack Black without a shirt on on Tv being funny and he's the man and and he's a fat guy and. He's cool. Everyone loves Jack Black and like it's it's just a ah different world I feel like because that is that is stuff that's catering to me so it's not an experience that I particularly had like searching for. That searching for like my ideal representation or something like that. So I made sure I wanted to get your um perspective there. 48:19.98 Jala Yeah, and the thing is is that I also was assaulted basically by different people that I was with who ended up being super toxic but you know ah when you're young, you are stupid. So ah. 48:35.65 Jala You you end up in these situations until you learn? Ah, but anyway some of the the toxic folks that I were with you know would say things like you know oh you're not feminine enough or you're not whatever or you should dress like X or whatever you know these kinds of things because I don't fit their their ideal of what. I am expected to do and ah but problem too is that a lot of those expectations were mostly tied to my gender identity. So ah, you know or my gender presentation rather? Um, so it was really frustrating to me because I'm like if if I. 49:11.93 Jala Were not if I did not appear to you to be a woman. You would not be telling me any of this I would just be an average guy and you would leave me alone. Wow Wow. So um, yeah, that also did a whole lot of number a big number on me as well and that kind of ties into gender stuff for me. But. 49:30.69 Jala That's a totally different episode. So the next question though is what caused your change when you decided to alter your lifestyle your physical appearance or whatever. 49:44.21 Dave Jackson Yeah, so um, obviously as as someone who's overweight and unhealthy. Um again, want to make that distinction someone who is unhealthy. Um I tried to go on diets as people do and as people do I tried the easy. ones are the ones that sounded easy. You know I tried keto when keto first came around or when it it first got hot. Ah, this was back in like twenty ten or twenty Eleven um because it was like oh all, you have to do is like not eat rice and bread and you'll. Magically lose a bunch of weight and I tried it and it sucked so I quit um and ah other you know, failed diets along the way. Um, and the the time that actually worked like the the thing that changed was I just kind of. Had like this perfect storm of things that made me want to like actually try and like work really hard at it this time. Ah, the first one health related I had sleep apnea and it was um, severe sleep. Apnea. Ah, the kind where they're like oh here's your test results. We need to get you on a cpap right now like that kind. Um, but I wasn't able to sleep with a cpap mask on I would fall asleep every night and every morning I would wake up and the mask would be on the ground and I like the people at the sleep center. 51:09.59 Dave Jackson Couldn't help me. They'd be like well we'll give you some different straps and it just didn't work. Um, so there was that in like if you can't use a cpap machine the other treatment for sleep apnea is to lose weight so that was part one. Ah, part 2 was there was this woman I'd been hanging out with this is in like 2012 2013 times um I had a big crush on her. She knew about it I told her about it because I didn't like I I didn't want to be that person who is just like you know I wanted to lay her. No. Basically I had to let her know and so I did and she you know she kept hanging out with me I thought there was maybe a chance or something and then I overheard her at a party so when I was nearby I don't know if it was like directed in a mean way or something but I overheard her say. Ah, to someone else that she could never ever date a fat guy and so that hurt quite a bit. Um and then right around that time. The third thing in the perfect storm was my coworkers at work started a weight loss challenge for New Year's so all 3 of those things together. Um. 52:25.14 Dave Jackson I had done a calorie counting diet before and I just like kind of fizzled out on it. But I already knew what to do It was just a matter of like are you actually going to do it this time and so that was the time. Um, so it's those 3 things that caused me to alter the lifestyle and it was. Kind of lucky that they all happen so close together to like actually kick me in the ass. Basically so yeah, that that was it. 52:52.27 Jala Um, yeah, yeah, well for mine. It was also health related but like in the way that I do when I'm planning way way ahead. So when I. First moved out of the house on my own out of college. Okay I'm not in college anymore I'm just holding down a job and and doing my thing living my life. Um, right around then my parents I was noticing every time I saw my parents that their physical health was in major decline. 53:24.28 Jala And this was back when I was 26 I am now forty one so this is a very long time ago I solved them and the way that they were declining and going oh my god they are going to need so much help when they are older and I'm I'm seeing you know like they didn't have some kind of. 53:42.54 Jala Self-care regimen at all that wasn't a thing you know for for their generation or whatever and so I was like you know I need to start changing stuff for myself. So because I am number one like there's not going to be any social security left for me by the time I come of age to. You know, actually try to ah you know cash in on that social security that was 1 thing that was floating looming around at that point right? Um also I was single and I was like well I don't know whether or not I'm going to ever get married or anything I can't rely on having a partner around that would be able to help me if I need it. 54:20.79 Jala And you know I had also had cancer - cervical cancer and I couldn't have kids. So ah, it was also like even if I wanted kids it it would be like adoption or something and like I can't count on that either provided that I even want them. You know want kids because you know I wasn't really. 54:40.52 Jala On the fence you know I but wasn't really like convinced I wanted them anyway. So I was like well for my own sake of you know so sake for the future that I have ahead of me and also for the fact that my parents are going to need me to be there I need to do something about myself now before they need me and. 54:59.59 Jala Before I need me I need to do something so since I was out of the house and I could focus just on myself and take care of that you know take care of myself differently I started with nutrition and the first thing I did with nutrition was I started making easy swaps. So. You know Ah, if I wanted ice cream I would get ice cream but I would also put fresh berries with it and then over time as I would eat the ice cream and I would also take my time eating it and then as you take your time eating it. You feel full and satisfied and you're really savoring it and being present with that food in that moment and then you don't need as much. 55:35.69 Jala You know, like if you're distracted if you're watching something and eating. You're not when you're going to eat too much if you are focusing on it and you're eating slow. You will not eat as much as as you would otherwise and. 55:47.85 Dave Jackson I've I've tried for years to like savor bites and make ah you know make make a handful of almonds last and I just it's so hard. It's so hard. 55:59.58 Jala It's It's not for everybody but um, yeah, that's how I train myself to to focus on the moment and focus on the thing and think about it real hard and um, you know I would even like because I was writing a lot. 56:14.89 Jala I Would also think about what would I describe this as if I were narrating this you know and thinking about that and that gave me more words that gave me more you know like mental image and and whatever and like ended up making me appreciate it more but then over time it got to the point where I was eating like you know when I would have some kind of. 56:34.60 Jala Chips or something I would have chips but I would also have fresh veggies and then over time my tastes started to change and I started to eat more veggies and more fruits and more whatever and like unprocessed stuff and kind of wheedling out that processed food and you know I was cooking more on my own and I was trying to be more conscious Of. Of you know, like what I was putting in there I started to educate myself about nutrition and you know making sure that I was getting the stuff that I needed and then I was like oh I feel better. Amazing. You know, ah for physical stuff I started with yoga I didn't start with anything hardcore. Ah. 57:10.83 Jala Yoga can be hardcore and it felt hardcore when I started for sure because I was not flexible, but um, you know I started with yoga. There was a book Richard Hittleman's twenty eight day guide to yoga like this old black and white book from like forever ago and I went through there and it was 15 minutes a day. And I was like every time I was like I don't really want to I was like but it's 15 minutes and I could talk myself into it because it was so short and so I started doing that and then I started my sister got into belly dance and I started to do belly dance because she started talking about it all the time. 57:45.95 Jala And then I started doing belly dance and then I added calisthenics and then I started jogging and you know and then I found Tybo Cardio kickboxing and that's really my jam because I like punching and kicking I like violence I am very violent. So um, now I'm in Muay Thai So like that never went away. But. 58:03.91 Jala You know and then and then when I was ah part of the typo community I was asked by 1 of the people who runs tybo. Ah so I was asked. Do you should I feel like you should really come to 1 of our trainer certification camps and I had never thought about being a trainer in my life. But because every time somebody had a question in the community I was always trying to find the answer to help them. You know and always trying to answer questions and help people. They were just like you have that what it takes to be a trainer you know so I went to this certification boot camp in 2010 and like I'd started my weight loss journey and in my lifestyle overhaul in 2007 ish. So this was a few years in to me like having dropped some weight in everything I went to typo certification camp I had never been in a real gym ever ever. 59:02.30 Jala And for years after that ah up until ah 2022 I never had a gym membership until 2022 put that in your head. So everything else I did like all the rest of the time was all 100% at home. So um, yeah, like I'd never been in a gym. 59:21.78 Jala I Had no idea what that was like I had never been in a live typo class I had no idea what that was like I taught myself off of videos using a mirror and I went in there and I came out a typo instructor and then from there I started teaching folks and you know like going about. 59:40.54 Jala Everything because you know like I'm very meticulous. So like when I was training myself I would video myself and watch it I would look at myself in the mirror and have that mirror right next to the the screen that I was following along with to make sure I looked like the instructor and you know like. Poring over everything they sent us. You know all the materials and everything so and I remember one of the things that was most memorable to me of the entire experience. Other than that first day I stepped into the first live class and then I came out of there feeling more stuff. Aching that I even thought had muscles I was like why does that hurt I didn't even know there was a muscle there other than that sensation. It was the very last day when we were doing our final exams. Our final tests to see who would be a trainer and who wouldn't the last thing they asked us to do was to huddle everybody up. 01:00:33.53 Jala And to give like the wrap up talk now you know me and my soapbox so I gave this little wrap up talk and everybody was like there were people wiping tears out of their their little eyes afterwards they were just like oh my God I'm so moved in this that and the other and you know so. 01:00:53.20 Jala That's where I started really like becoming a professional out of nowhere that I wasn't expecting or even feeling confident about So so it like it was a pretty long journey from like I was pretty much an average kid then I was a super Introvert who. 01:01:11.50 Jala Was like a super homebody and did everything you know solo and all of that and didn't do any physical activities to then becoming like a certified trainer and all the other various forms of athlete I've been ever since. So but yeah, it started with very small changes and most people are surprised when I tell them that. 01:01:30.41 Jala And I'm like well you know like you didn't build whatever Lifestyle you've got now in a day you didn't build the life The the body that you've got right now in a day and it's not going to change in a day. You know it takes years of of dedication and like. 01:01:46.36 Jala Consistency. The important part is being consistent. So. 01:01:50.10 Dave Jackson Right? Yeah, when ah when I so when I first started so I my my method was um I I counted calories I used my fitness pal. Ah every single day for every single thing that I ate. Um. But before I did that I just logged what I ate in a normal day on my fitness pal without changing anything just to get in the habit of doing it. Um, and then I went to planet fitness for the first the entire time I was in the weight loss process which was about a year and a half um I went to planet fitness um, and there was a bunch of I don't know if it's still out there because I'm not as plugged in anymore. There's a bunch of shit talking about planet fitness out there because oh they give away pizza once a month or whatever like you don't have to eat the pizza just it's just the thing that they do and it's ten bucks a month or it used to be. And um I think that the thing that helped me is that I think planet fitness caters to that more casual gym goer. So I went there for a year and a half never talked to a single person when I was there never had anyone you know talk shit. Or get mad because I was using a machine or get mad because it was ah New Year's day and there's a bunch of resolutioners in there like no one cared so that was good that was good. Um, so I I started with the gym then I started doing yoga at home and similar to you. 01:03:21.70 Dave Jackson Um I torrented the p ninety x yoga video which is an insane workout I was never able to do the entire thing I would do like 10 minutes and then 15 minutes and then 20 minutes and I eventually got to be able to do like half of it. It's like an hour and a half long and it's insanely difficult. 01:03:38.19 Jala Yeah, oh I I will interrupt you real quick to say um I've heard stories of P Ninety X but I got into insanity and that's where my big love of like plymettrics come from and that insanity wiped my wiped the floor with my ass. 01:03:55.12 Jala Ah, a lot and it still does anytime I go back to it and I haven't been doing it in a while and I'm like yep this is hard as hell. It's still hard as hell. So. 01:04:03.50 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah, even even at the most fit that I ever was which is not right now. Um I was still only able to do about half of that P90X Yoga video. It's insane. So but I did as much as I could I didn't. 01:04:19.82 Dave Jackson I didn't feel like I was a failure for only doing 15 minutes of it because I did what I could um and that was in addition to lifting and and you know walking my dog and stuff like that. So I kind of realized at the beginning that um I have a very. 01:04:38.78 Dave Jackson Analytical mind. Um and I have a very like when I'm doing something like that statistics really help me. Um so calorie counting was the thing that actually worked because I could calculate and I could plan and if I just followed my plan things would work and. You know that that helped out a lot so that was like the the start of it and then the things that I learned by counting calories such as if you're on a calorie budget. You can't afford in Quotes. You can't afford to drink a big thing of coke you just can't. So find something else to drink and then those habits have stuck with me to this day. Um, and you had mentioned how your tastes change in regards to snacks and stuff I still don't drink pop because it's too sweet I don't like it anymore. Um, and that's something that changed and I'm I'm grateful for that very grateful for it. 01:05:32.31 Jala Um, oh and you know what 1 thing that I noticed is that anytime I was in the office and they had like stuff come in like somebody brought in breakfast on Friday or whatever. 01:05:44.00 Dave Jackson Ah God yeah. 01:05:46.59 Jala And um, you know or or like during this holiday season. Everybody sending cookies and other stuff like that popcorn and crap and there's just all that stuff in the the break room every time I would go there for a while right? like after I started making all of my changes I would go in there and I'm like ooh and my mouth would water looking at the pizza or whatever and then. Actually try a little bit and I'm like you know this is amazingly disappointing the smell of it triggered the Pavlovian reaction of it tasting really really good, but it was better in my memory than it was in my mouth I didn't like the taste of it anymore because I was eating whole foods and there's there's actually. 01:06:17.38 Dave Jackson Right. 01:06:25.34 Jala Like the processed foods actually have stuff in them that make you addicted to them. That's part of the whole shtick. So um, like when you're away from that you can taste it and like there were times where I would tell people and they thought I was completely off my rocker when I was like I can taste the chemicals in this you know like I can taste chemicals. 01:06:44.91 Jala Goals I taste chemicals and they're just like what and I'm like well I make everything fresh from scratch at home now. So like I don't you know I'm not ignoring that taste anymore like I can catch that taste now because I'm sensitive to it. So. 01:06:58.80 Dave Jackson Right? exactly? Yeah I mean once a year I'll break out a box of craft Mac and cheese just out of pure childhood nostalgia and I I still think it tastes good but it doesn't taste right? Ah, you know you know what I mean. 01:07:11.61 Jala Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the thing is is that um we talked about it on the Fitness Mythbusting & AMA episode which by the time this comes out was the last topical episode but ah for you Dave it'll be next week so ah when that episode drops. 01:07:21.91 Dave Jackson Oh cool. 01:07:29.36 Jala Um, we talked about on there. How like the the different stuff that you're making just really it. It does change just how you how you taste stuff. But even if you. Are in that process and you're not like you're like no I'm eating a lot of whole foods and stuff but I still have this urge for processed Foods. You can plan ahead and incorporate that into your nutrition plan so that you can still. Have it every once in a while the key is every once in a while not like a constant you know? Ah so that you can treat yourself so you don't feel deprived because when you feel deprived the moment stress hits you, You're going to go for that thing because you're stressed and you want to just. Eat that thing that you've been really craving that you know you told yourself you cannot have you know if you reframe that as I can have it but I have to have X amount of it or you know like I need to um you know do like. 01:08:32.48 Jala Offset it by by changing this in my nutrition plan a little bit to to accommodate or even if you don't even if you just have like 1 thing that you eat once a week you know that's not going to wreck all of the rest of the hard work that you're doing or the healthy food that you're eating the rest of the time you know, ah science has proven that if you have like ah a treat for yourself every once in a while. 01:10:08.13 Jala That's not going to actually impact any potential weight loss that you're experiencing or anything so it's not going like people people have these real hard and fast rules when it comes to nutrition that are destructive habits and um, that kind of segues into something I wanted to talk about too. Which is whether or not your changes were healthy or unhealthy. 01:10:32.86 Dave Jackson Yeah, so like I said I I did mine with calorie counting and I think I kept like very reasonable calorie budgets for the most part. Um, so what that meant was I I had to learn how to cook. I knew how to cook but I had to cook all the time. Basically I cut out basically all restaurant food because it's it's a nightmare if you're trying to watch your calories so that was healthy for sure and then like I think my mindset about it was healthy as well. Um. You know, not expecting things to happen too quickly and then like you just said you got to have a treat every now and then Dave needs a treat every now and then so um, this kind of like combines with one of the things in the notes later but like. 01:11:26.87 Dave Jackson When I was doing this because it took me a year and a half and it was a um, almost like ah a religious lifestyle for me I did not deviate from it. Um, except for a special occasion. So it just turned into like if I'm going to go. Out with friends and I remember 1 time where I was like very stressed because I was going to go to a concert so this is an unhealthy thing about it was it caused me a lot of stress on a daily basis trying to do the right thing. Um, but I went to a concert with some people and I had to like you said. 01:12:00.85 Dave Jackson Allow myself at the concert have a piece of pizza and a couple of beers and it will be fine in the grand scheme of things so other than the like the worry that you're going to undo all of the progress that you've had. I think that I did approach it in a really healthy way and that's the reason that it worked because if I was doing it in an unhealthy way. Um, it would not have sustained for a year and a half I would have burned out in one way or the other. 01:12:34.90 Jala Gotcha gotcha. So um, this seggues into the ways in which what I was doing initially were very healthy, but but body image and people and how they react to you and what you what you say to people when they're losing weight. Ah. 01:12:40.19 Dave Jackson Um, yeah, right. 01:12:49.77 Jala Yeah, we'll we'll we'll talk more about what other people's responses were ah put a pin in that but that plays into how it became unhealthy for me which I've talked about on the Dysmorphia episode. So ah, in my case I was healthy about it at first. I was ecstatic that I was seeing the changes this that and the other well then everybody started to compliment me slash get really jealous of me for losing weight and so then all of these people kept like then I was getting all this attention. 01:13:22.69 Jala Chin and people were just like positively reinforcing me dropping weights which this is part of what leads people into stuff like eating disorders I did not get to the fat point of eating disorders because it is a fact that I love Food. So ah. I I never got to that point but I did have disordered eating where I would um, really really manage my portions very very strictly. Um, you know like I wasn't starving myself or anything but like I managed my portions very strictly. I was very much a hard ass when it came to I'm not going to eat out. I'm not going to have alcohol I'm not going to do X. You know like I would just miss out on social stuff ah or like go to the social thing but then be the only person not actually eating or drinking or anything. Um, yeah, and and stuff like that and those like there there. 01:14:07.30 Dave Jackson Yeah I did the same thing. Yeah. 01:14:15.10 Jala Steps that can potentially lead to the path of an eating disorder but they are called disordered eating worrying about that like worrying about your calories and stuff and oh my God I went over that kind of thing you know also the weighing yourself all the time I started to weigh myself obsessively every day every day. 01:14:33.90 Dave Jackson No. 01:14:33.17 Jala Sometimes multiple times a day and that became like the numbers game there you know, ah it's the opposite of the gamer effect where it's you want to see all the numbers. Go up here. You want to see all the numbers go down but it's the same effect. You get like addicted to watching the numbers go down and so yeah, yeah. 01:14:44.20 Dave Jackson Right? Yeah, um, sorry one of the one of the most helpful things for me when I was doing it was I was on the subreddit called lose it where there's a bunch of people losing weight. And 1 of the most healthy things I took from that is someone said like pick a day in time and weigh yourself once a week and don't touch the scale. The rest of the time. So for me, it was like Saturday morning weigh myself I'll write it down and then I don't touch it till the next saturday because. You you don't realize what's happening but your body weight fluctuates a ton throughout each day from day to day and so what you want is just an average and not like oh my god how did I gain £3 since this morning you know. 01:15:35.99 Jala Exactly But here's the thing see you approached it the right way you found resources you did whatever granted I did educate myself about nutrition. So I was getting a balanced diet I was eating so from scratch healthy foods this that and the other. 01:15:53.51 Jala But I was wait way way way way too active like I did too too too many things. Um, but that's actually I'm not sure if that's really because of like the whole dysmorphia thing or if that's just because I've always been like. Internally I've always been like an active individual when I was a kid I was an active individual I'm still a very active individual like you know, um I've I used to do endurance events to try to wear myself out and I failed So like you know, ah that being the case I think it's just a disposition thing. But. It it The the dysmorphia put it in a direction. Let's just put it that way. So but the thing is is that because especially I was trained to think that I needed to be as small as possible and that is how I would be valued in society as a woman I was. 01:16:47.48 Jala Obsessed with becoming smaller and I was doing everything by myself I wasn't very supported by anybody. My sister had been super negative about my weight I don't know if I've ah probably mentioned this before at one point we had gone this is before I started weight loss and stuff. Um, at one point we went to a. Buffet or something and I was just wearing like a skirt with a little crop top because I was doing belly dance stuff. Well we went and we ate and then we came home and then like two days later my sister comes up to me hands me a calorie counterbook tells me that she's ashamed to be seen in public with me and walks away. So ah, that's the kind of. Quote unquote support that I got and then of course everybody in my work was very jealous of my weight loss and we're making cadd group remarks and this that and the other because they were jealous that I was losing weight because I was working to lose weight. so okay so I was very very alone on my journey. 01:17:45.46 Jala And I ah you know like I was doing all of this before I was really part of any kind of internet communities I don't even know that Reddit existed I don't even know like or if it you know if it did I had no idea what it was or where it was ah so. Most of my stuff was 100% alone and this is like before I started the tybo thing because tybo that was twenty ten and I did have a community at that point and then I started having a better relationship with myself. But that first part from 2007 to ah 2010 ish was all just isolated 100 % isolated 100% unsupported and when I became a trainer I was like well I want to become a trainer so that other people don't have to go through that shit the way that I did you know so but um, yeah, so. 01:18:32.82 Jala I had disordered eating I was a little bit too focused on stuff doing that thing that you know now I'm very well cognizant and and you know ah always speaking out against that kind of you know, hyper hyper vigilance of your weight because it does fluctuate all the time every day. 01:18:50.96 Jala Your Sodium intake How many carbs you've had whether or not you've hydrated properly. You know like all different kinds of things just the natural flow ebb and flow of just like how you are you know it. It fluctuates constantly and those numbers don't it's. 01:19:09.24 Jala It's an average. It's an approximate. It's not you know, like a religious thing you know so. 01:19:14.89 Dave Jackson Yeah I guess I will say that like you you kind of reminded me of something I teased earlier like toward the end of my time when I was like actively you know on a calorie deficit I'll say um. 01:19:32.42 Dave Jackson There. So I'm again I'm five Eleven um I have a pretty like my I have broad shoulders. So just kind of painting this this picture like um I think that a healthy weight for me is around like. 86 to 200 is is where I've always felt the healthiest and I got down to about one 65 at the end of like the calorie deficit time because I was chasing that 6 pack um and coming from where I came from I had a lot of extra. Um. Didn't have a lot of extra skin like some people do when they lose that much weight you know at one point I had lost like over a hundred pounds I'm still down over a hundred pounds from my heaviest but um, it was too much and so. There was an unhealthy portion where I had passed the point where I should I should have been like okay this is good now and I was chasing something that was ultimately never going to happen because I had that that stomach fat like you talked about that is just not is not going to go away unless I get surgery or something like that. But I wasn't satisfied with that and so there was a point where um, you look at pictures from me from like actually right at the time when I left to move for Korea which is may of 2015? Um, and I am like too skinny. 01:21:02.42 Dave Jackson And it's it got to that point where it was like okay this is this is too much. 01:21:07.63 Jala Yeah, so my lowest adult weight was 119.5 because even though I'm five foot four even like I was tiny when I was 119.5 by the way. Um I was teeny tiny but my genetics mean that I retain muscle very well. So even when I was very small I had like a decent amount of muscle mass and you know as a result of that like. 01:21:37.62 Jala I couldn't get any lower than that without you know, being super super super unhealthy, but I still at that point I looked at myself and I'm like but I still want to get rid of some more fat you know like that kind of ah sensation that you feel because again it was. 01:21:46.40 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah. 01:21:51.74 Jala Just like you mentioned it was actually at the lower part of my stomach that I was like I want this to go away. This isn't defined enough I want it to be more defined. You know. 01:21:57.50 Dave Jackson Yeah, and that that like that weight loss when you're looking at the scale and you know my fitness pal has a graph that it keeps for you if you input your weight when you're looking at that every week and it keeps going down that gets addictive like that. Ah, that. 01:22:17.19 Dave Jackson Reinforcement is really really addicting. Um, and so it took too long for me to stop that because it always felt good to weigh in on Saturday morning and see a lower number. 01:22:30.13 Jala Yeah, yeah, and I've talked about it but like part of the reason why in the last couple of years I have not weighed myself much at all is because since I've been going through a lot of um, personal life struggle stuff. 01:22:44.74 Jala Ah, and you know I had injuries and then there were a lot of a lot of other things going on like my parents in the hospital and that and the other and depression and so on like I knew that if I weighed myself I was just going to become upset and that it could potentially because of the vulnerable situation I was in. That it could potentially set off dysmorphia all over again and I didn't want to do that. So I specifically opted not to weigh myself because of that. So and then like yeah yeah, well I have a scale I Just don't use it. Ah at least not right now. 01:23:05.42 Dave Jackson Yeah. Yeah, we we don't own a scale either. 01:23:20.21 Dave Jackson Um, that's even better. 01:23:22.40 Jala Um, but the thing is is that like ah when I finally got back to everything after recovery like after parents got out of the hospital and I was mostly out of the depression and my injuries had healed and I was over covered then I started going to the gym. You know and then because I was going to the gym itself and able to use like machines and and have safer equipment than what I have at home and everything I was able to lift more so then it was like the numbers game and the obsession of getting bigger actually ah that I had in the last year or so and now now like my shift. You know my focus is shifting to having more of a balanced kind of training style not just like the the lifting for big muscle mass but you know now I'm going to be doing moitai and I want to get back to poll at some point I really miss it and you know those kinds of things and. 01:24:12.24 Jala That requires me to do some maintenance lifting and I still want to pursue bodybuilding to a degree but like that's not going to be my main focus anymore. So I will hopefully at this point start to to trim up a little bit more. Um, so that I can feel. 01:24:31.10 Jala More content with like what I want for speed in Moai and agility in Moai and things like that. Ah the training style is going to change a lot. So I'm going to like when I post stuff. It'll be more like plymetrics and bag work and partner work and. All kinds of other stuff so it'll it'll look different. It won't be just like the same photo of me flexing my freaking biceps. So but um, yeah, and like that was a big change for me when I started lifting and then actually becoming bodybuildery. Ah, that was like me breaking out finally from that obsession with being the smallest possible and then it was like the opposite now I'm like I'm going to be the biggest person possible for my size you know, ah without like naturally I'm not interested in PEDs or anything. 01:25:07.78 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah. 01:25:19.16 Jala But um, then it was that and it was like oh I want to be as big as possible and now I'm like no I miss all of those other modalities and stuff that I've been doing all this time because I like to burn I like to burn my my violence off punching and kicking things and you know jumping and and otherwise trying to wear myself out. 01:25:37.31 Dave Jackson Yeah, good way to do it. 01:25:38.21 Jala Vigorously. So but ah, yeah, yeah, so so the next question though, how did other people treat you before your period of change and how did they treat you during change. So yeah. 01:25:52.50 Dave Jackson Um, yeah, you've you've already kind of started this like you. You talked about how you had a ah lack of support during your um during your your journey or at least the beginning of it from like the people close to you but like. 01:26:09.90 Dave Jackson The other half of that is like the public I think like so what was that experience like for you before I kind of give my side. 01:26:10.43 Jala Yeah, yeah, yeah. So before like this is one of the most notable ways that it changed as oh female assigned female at Birth Individual is so that people didn't feel like some people said I was attractive or whatever. 01:26:35.13 Jala When you know I was heavier set but not very many people and when I started to drop a weight suddenly I was the hottest person in the fucking world and everybody wanted to come and talk to me and people started coming up to me and inviting me to their threesome and all kinds of wild shit. Yeah, all kind. 01:26:53.80 Jala Wild shit started happening out of nowhere and I was like wow wow and what that ended up causing for me is for me to internalize that people only valued me for what I look like on the outside and that I couldn't trust anything anybody said because they were all lying to me. It was only because of the artificial the the exterior appearance and then um, actually as a result of that. Um, several of the people that I've dated I met online first so that they could get to know me and we could gel and talk to each other online before we saw each other face to face and I don't mean dating apps I mean just like. 01:27:32.64 Jala You know, naturally by existing on the internet I come across people like my dave you know my Dave that I am married to I met him on Twitter who knew so you know, um, and whatever so you know like that. But like I started to prefer that. 01:27:51.91 Jala Because I was like I don't want people being you know, just only being sweet on me because of what I look like and treating me a different way because of what I look like I don't like this and that's weird I guess because I was now privileged I was more privileged as a you know white passing Considered. To be hot female I was in a place of really really big privilege and I stepped back from it and I didn't want that I was upset about it because I felt it wasn't fair and I didn't want that for myself or for anybody else it just made me upset. 01:28:27.93 Jala So and I was like I don't want to associate with anybody for whom this is why they're here. 01:28:33.10 Dave Jackson Yeah, it So I was going to ask you like were you happy to get more attention but it sounds like you weren't it sounds like it pushed you kind of further away. 01:28:42.80 Jala Well, it's well it was a double-edged kind of thing like was it affirming to me that all this hard work was being appreciated. Yes, was it nice to be like people lusting after me sure like that's flattering. But also you know like from ah like a social Justice kind of standpoint. It's also fucked up and like no I don't actually want to be with these people but it's still flattering but it also reinforced stuff. To where when I started to lose that weight and I started to be perceived as hot and hot and hot and all of this other stuff as much as I didn't want that mantle on me for certain reasons and I didn't want to associate with those people you know like have them in my life just because of what I look like superficially. At the same time. It also made me go I want to I need to be smaller I need to look I I can do more I can do more you think I'm hot now just you fucking wait I'm going to get hotter you know and that was like you know and I think that's just part of me because I I Always love a challenge So I was just like. How can I make it better. How can I be better. How could what can I Do you know and how could I turn it up a notch. So um, that's just my disposition so it worked both ways like it was affirming but also I didn't want to be with any of these people who were only attracted to me physically. So. 01:30:09.80 Dave Jackson Right? Yeah, So for for my side of it. Um, before I started it I kind of feel like you know obviously I have friends and I had people who were attracted to me, not that many, but it did happen. Ah, from time to time a lot of times I wasn't aware of it at the time and only in in retrospect I'm like fuck they were missed that one but ah it did happen from time to time. Um, while I was losing weight and I wonder if you had this experience too like um. 01:30:46.37 Dave Jackson Didn't get the sense that people were like people would make comments and they'd be like oh I wish I could lose weight and in my head I was like well you just like you know, join do the same thing I'm doing with me I'll help you out but there was a bunch of conversations that happened that either happened like that or happened in my head because I didn't want to actually say that to them. Um, but the thing that something that bothered me during that was that a lot of people had trouble accepting that this was a um, a very strict lifestyle that I was leading and it was something that I had to do. Ah, for myself and I had to follow through on and everybody when you are with them whether it's donuts in the break room like you mentioned or whether it's you know you're you're hanging out or you're going home for a holiday or you are you have someone invites you out to a bar or something like that. Everybody. Wants you to make that 1 time exception for them and it it was too many times when people were like well it just this once I'm like well it's not just this. It's this once with you but 2 other times this week other people wanted to me take a donut just take a donut They're free. Take 1 and I you know people had trouble just accepting that I didn't want to ah and it sometimes it could go too far like sometimes I do have to allow myself those exceptions but very few people. Ah they would say hey. 01:32:22.29 Dave Jackson There's donuts. Ah, or I brought donuts in today, please take one I'd be like no thank you I'm okay and they'd be like okay, fine. Very few people were cool and just moved on ah people everyone had to ask a question and um, reminded me of ah do you know the comedian Jim Gaffig again okay 01:32:40.40 Dave Jackson Um, well this is going to be bad I'm going to explain ah a stand-up Comedian's joke on a podcast but he he he did this joke about how he doesn't drink and every time people um, ask every time he says that to people people have to know the story they have to know why and they can't just say okay, fine. 01:32:46.47 Jala It's fine. 01:32:59.72 Dave Jackson I'll get you a water. Um, and that's kind of how it went for me too like every time I would say no thank you I don't want any of this pizza in the break room people are like well why what's going on like man you work with me. You know I've been on a diet for the last year like you know what's going on. Why can't we just move on now. It's a thing and you know we're having this conversation. Um, there's a lot of stuff like that during the time. Um, yeah. 01:33:25.64 Jala So for me ah it wasn't right at first when I was first losing weight for the first little bit there from 2007 to 2009 I was still an omnivore 2009 I became vegetarian when I was vegetarian. 01:33:41.84 Dave Jackson All right. 01:33:44.99 Jala And suddenly everybody had to like. Not only did they already before look at you know oh what are you eating you know or whatever and like judging what I eat but boy when I became vegetarian they did it even more and then when I became vegan like what was it six years ago or more I don't know seven years ago I don't remember. Time means nothing. It was so 202017 I think when I became um, vegan anyway, um, when I became vegan too. It happened all over again like I thought we were done with this guys and then everybody is like looking over my shoulder at whatever I brought for lunch and I'm like. They're like what are you eating and I'm like it's chilly. Yeah and it's just like oh my god you know like scandalized because there's no meat in there and no cheese and it's like it's just fucking chilly like what is the deal you know and. 01:34:38.20 Jala And then I'm like I I eventually turn to him because I'm full of sass. So I turn to him and I'm just like I am not picking apart what you're eating and what's in it and any of that mess I am not questioning 1 bit about the stuff in your mcdonald's bag I don't give a shit would you leave me alone. Yeah. 01:34:58.00 Jala And I also like um, hey I think it's also because people knew that I was a hardass and a firecracker and I wasn't going to take their shit ah that they also didn't try to push me into eating stuff either. You know, like but I did get the all the question like you can't eat. Whatever. Well first off, yes I could eat that if I wanted to eat that but I do not want to eat that let me clarify that sentence for you you know um but yeah people are really weird about food. They're so precious about food and I mean like I understand food is a very big communal thing. It's a so. 01:35:35.39 Jala Social thing. That's why usually like it's a sign that there's you know you're starting to get into an unhealthy kind of situation if you are you know, like not you know able to accommodate ahead of time like say okay well I'm I'm. Working out for a bodybuilding show or whatever this situation I'm on a diet and so I'm going to bring whatever and I'm going to eat this. You know like and that's what ended up being the thing at my work eventually my boss sometimes would be like hey I think they have some options for Stuff. You might want you know? is there something that you want off this menu and I'll just order you a thing. You know for you? Um, and if they didn't have anything available at that place I just didn't get the food that everybody else did and I just brought my own stuff but I would still sit with everybody but I would bring my own stuff you know and like you know there's ways to accommodate that kind of situation but like. 01:36:28.16 Jala Boy right? at first was it real awkward and and weird and people just got so weird about food. 01:36:34.85 Dave Jackson Yeah, in my case like it's not id never felt like it was coming from like a place of um, you know, malice or anything like that from people. It's just like literally everyone asks the same question. But. And so for them. It's a 1 time question that they're asking. But for me, it's the fifth time someone's asked me that week the exact same thing so that that got old and that's someone that's something that like if there's ever ah, a place in this episode for like words of advice for people who have someone in their life that is trying to do this. 01:37:09.74 Dave Jackson Just you don't need sometimes you just don't need to know if they say they don't want a donut. They don't want a donut. Don't press them on it. You know stuff like that. So um, the other part of it that you had mentioned is obviously as I lost weight people were more attracted to me. 01:37:29.21 Dave Jackson And it's it's in that like um, you know, physical attraction way to, but also just like I think people were friendlier to me after I lost weight just in public like cashiers and stuff like that. They just people smile more and stuff like that and I noticed it. Um. 01:37:49.10 Dave Jackson It wasn't like people were mean to me before but people were definitely friendlier and then the the other part of it so you had an interesting experience because you did this and then you stayed in the same place right? like you didn't move to a new city or something like not right away right. 01:38:04.77 Jala Right? I've moved around Houston but I have remained in Houston just different parts of Houston. 01:38:10.45 Dave Jackson Right? So I did this and then I like immediately moved from the Us to South Korea so I basically started fresh with an entirely new group of people around me who had never known me as anything but the way I was when I moved there. Um, so I didn't really have the time to have those experiences of like ah well you ignored me before but now you want some like I didn't have that I don't know if I would have anyway. But I definitely didn't because I moved I left everything you know behind. Um, and it it's really interesting thinking about this in this scope when we're talking about body image and the way people perceive you because I moved to a ah culture that is more superficial than we are in the United States 01:39:04.00 Jala Right? right? So that must have been like a interesting ah shift for you but also also doubly interesting because you were going after having made this massive change for yourself. So. 01:39:17.61 Dave Jackson Yeah, and it's it's a place. Um, and I promise I'm not talking shit here. But ah, the people that I worked with and the people that I knew in in Korea it's just There is just a directness to the way people talk to each other about each other and especially the way you look like several times I would go to work and my coworkers would just be like hey you look really tired like you look bad and I'm like okay, cool. Thank you for? Thank you for letting me know, um, but they would also just. Straight up say to you strangers will come up and say to you. You're really handsome and it's not weird for people to say that over there but it is weird for me to hear that because that's not the way things work in the Us for just a random stranger to come up to me and tell me that I'm handsome um, not. Ah I don't want to say that's everyone's experience because I'm sure it's different for other people. Not my experience in Us culture and not my experience as someone who was not seen as attractive by a lot of people and now um there was more of that. So doubly strange as far as like. The way people react to you. 01:40:32.90 Jala Well, that's kind of funny ah you were sitting there and saying that and going I I don't know anybody in the US that would do that I I would absolutely do that I would come up to you and tell you that you're handsome. You are handsome and that's just a fact so there but but I mean. 01:40:41.42 Dave Jackson Well you you know like we know each other we know each other like. 01:40:47.81 Jala I Would do that to a stranger I would go tell a stranger that you know I find them attractive I do not care. It's fine, but it's new. 01:40:52.46 Dave Jackson Okay, well, that's that's that's beautiful I love that Jala I I would not talk to that stranger in the first place I'd keep walking. 01:41:01.64 Jala Ah, well I mean like it's it's ah you know like I come from a disposition ah that has been developed over the course of many brushes with my own mortality and potential death situations as talked about on the death Positivity episode. So like um I have this whole thing in my head of. 01:41:20.70 Jala If I appreciate somebody I want them to know that I appreciate them in the moment when I'm thinking about it because I don't know what's going to happen to anyone you know or whatever. So I always try to just speak my mind and that made me a very forthright person. 01:41:35.99 Jala So a far cry from the very introverted person I was for a very long time but you know here we are. But yeah as you were seeing people being friendlier and stuff boy when I was ah heavier set nobody would open a door for me or do any of that shit. But then as soon as I started losing weight. 01:41:52.49 Jala Everybody was suddenly a gentleman regardless of what their actual ah gender identity was so everybody was like this and everybody was like oh you're cute. You know or this that or the other they they you know I had people I worked retail at this time I worked in the bookstore and I had fans. 01:42:11.77 Jala I had customers that would come in specifically when they knew I was working to come and see what I was wearing every day because also I I am ah um, a very showy person I Express myself through my dress and so I would wear different stuff every time I went to work and everybody was just like waiting to see what I was going to be dressed up as the next time I came to work. You know, not that I was running around in costumes. But like I just have definite styles that I would come out with and it would be a variety. It wouldn't be all the same. You say me? So But yeah, like I had people who were like fans of me that would come in and specifically want to talk to me and this that in the other after I looked a certain way. 01:42:50.79 Jala But not before. 01:42:52.20 Dave Jackson Right? Yeah I had um yeah, just an astounding number of people just tell me that I look good in that again part of that is also just moving to a culture where people say that kind of stuff to you way more often. But that was like very rare for someone to say before I lost Weight. So It's ah it's a big big shift. Um, and like I I wrote in the notes here like because because you asked the question like ah. 01:43:25.60 Dave Jackson How did your perspective on other people change as a result of the way that they treated you and I wrote in the notes that like part of me wants to say that I was vindictive toward all the people who never you know smiled when you know I talked to them in public or all the people who were never never gave me the. That kind of attention before but I wasn't I was just happy that people are paying attention and ah you know giving me compliments and stuff. It's something that was not super common and um, it frankly, just happy that that was a part of life. However. You know, However, often it happened. But yeah, just I was happy about it and so like in a if I sit back and think about it I'd be like yeah of course it's It's kind of fucked up the way that works but I was just happy to to be on the receiving end of of some niceness like that. And ah the other thing like I really want to get your take on this too. The other thing is like I Honestly can't be mad about like people being nicer to me after I lost weight. Because I also found my tastes in other people changing in that way too like um I just that the people that I found attractive tended to mirror the the way that my own body image in my own body was working and I don't know if that was the same way for you. 01:44:58.13 Dave Jackson Like these are big changes and there's a lot of stuff that changed besides my physical appearance. You know what? I mean. 01:45:02.57 Jala Yeah, yeah, so let me just say that it was different over time it changed over time. So right? And first yeah I was like oh wow. 01:45:17.59 Jala Ah, this is cool I'm attracted to people who you know are also fit and working on themselves and part of that is just because like it had become my new lifestyle I couldn't just hang out with people who were you know, ah in a drastically different kind of. Place in life in you know way of way of existing in the world right? like taking their time and you know like if if I have my time I'm going to cook a homemade meal and then I'm going to I'll play a video game or watch a movie but then I'm going to go do a workout or whatever and like if they are are wanting to do something else then like. 01:45:51.97 Jala It's harder to spend that time and and kind of see eye to eye when your lifestyles are drastically different. Um, so at first yes because like that became my whole fucking personality for a while um and and some people. 01:46:07.92 Jala Say but Jala you never stopped. You're still fit this person but like that's not that's not the only thing that I do with myself you know, um, there's there's a lot to me. There's a lot of dimensionality. But at that point it was just like the 1 thing for me, you know, um, and so but over time. 01:46:26.82 Jala That changed because first off, how could I get upset that these people were interested in me superficially only and didn't give a shit about who I was as a person regardless of of the body that I inhabit how could I be upset about that. But then. Also be super like oh well I love this person. They are so wonderful. But I can't date them because you know they're heavier set I can't say that you know like that's that's not true to who I am and that's not true to how I want to be in the world and actually like it was funny because I ended up. Really liking and in like dating people who were different sizes all different kinds of sizes and just different kinds of backgrounds and stuff after ah, all of my my internal changes and stuff after I got past the initial this is my entire personality bit. Um, you know once I settled in and it was like nope this is a definitely like there's some form of this still going on in my life forever now. Um you know? Yeah I dated people of all different shapes and sizes and the thing is people would tell me that they were intimidated by me because. Oh, but jolly, you're not just so energetic and and so confident. But also you're really hot I think you're really hot and um so like you're intimidating to me I didn't think that you would ever be interested in me because you're like you're out of my league and this this is this thing that I would get and I'm like what the hell are you even talking. 01:48:02.40 Jala About I Love you What is is you know?? Um, and so people would just think that that you know, um I'm I'm quote unquote off limits or or you know put me on some kind of weird pedestal because of what they think of all the different things that I embody and I'm just like. I live in a flesh prison that is a rotting mass like it's going to go Away. It will eventually get old. You know I I'm yes, I'm happy I look this way Now. Yes I Want to flaunt it? Yes, Yes, please I Love it. I Love the attention I'm not going to you know ah throw shade about that like I do love the attention. Even though at the same time I want you to care about me for who I am not just the body I'm in but like at the same time.. It's like it's It's not all of me. It's not all of me. Don't don't think don't don't be scared of me because of. 01:48:56.17 Jala You know, like what I look like you don't don't think that I'm quote unquote out of your league because you know I have a 6 pack of abs or whatever that doesn't it doesn't matter to me like I really just love the person that's it but it was it was kind of like a journey like I went through a phase where I was like I have the power. 01:49:15.87 Jala Go to just date the really super Hawk eyes or whatever that I find that they are super hot because of you know the the body that they're in but then over time I'm like you know as I grew up and became more of an adult. It's like no I Actually I love I Love people for who they are and I appreciate them for who they are and. 01:49:35.40 Jala Whatever that looks like whatever that looks like so. 01:49:39.27 Dave Jackson Yeah, it. It was definitely a phase of mine like when I was really into it and when I was really disciplined about it and um, probably probably the the time when I was like just. That was my world I Want to say so like I said like the people that I found attractive to were people that I thought were also in that world you know and now that you know that's not my world anymore and I yeah I did not date a bunch of people. Um or even several people. 01:50:14.57 Dave Jackson Like afterwards I dated a couple people and then I got married and um so like this this is it's like yeah, my taste have changed through the years too um it's it's not as like it's not like it was. Back then when I described but I did notice that about myself back then and it was interesting. How like um, you, you always want to consider yourself to be above any kind of superficial. Um, you know preferences like that. And there was a time when I did find myself you know, very much preferring people that were doing all that stuff and um, you know, looking like that and it was really so like I'm I'm not proud of it but it was something I noticed about myself during that time. Um. And I like to think that that's not the way it is now and I'm not believe in thinking about a lot of people that way anymore. Anyway. But yeah, it's it was just something interesting I noticed because we want to talk about how other people treat you. But I did notice something about how I thought about other people. 01:51:27.50 Jala Well and something about that too. So another change that happened for me once I became the super you know, fit person or whatever ah is that as I mentioned I became a trainer so that I could. Help other people and things. Um, so that they wouldn't be alone in all of that. But also I knew how it felt to be that person who was around the person who was super fit or whatever and feeling self-conscious about yourself and this that and the other and empathizing with that sentiment I would always latch on to any. 01:52:03.44 Jala But who seemed like they were like feeling left out in in a group and I would latch onto that person loop my arm in their arm and talk their little ear off and you know try to make them comfortable and make them cared about and make them like feel seen in everything so like it kind of just became like the thing that I wanted to do I wanted to make sure that other people. You know didn't feel like that I knew what that felt like I didn't want other people to feel that and being as I am now and how I developed over time as a result of like all of the personal effort and willpower and hours and hours and hours of blood sweat and tears like. 01:52:40.56 Jala All the the different effort that I I put in and in finding my personal power through that Journey allowed me to have the confidence level to be. You know, somebody who can who can reach out to other people in a way I couldn't when I was introverted and self-conscious and everything. Like I was before So ah, in addition to over time that ah I'm attracted to people because of who they are as a person not because of whatever it is that they look like I mean yes, physical attraction is always going to play a part if you're in like a romantic relationship. Um, but. 01:53:14.63 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah, that that's specifically that's what I meant is romantic attraction. Yeah. 01:53:18.81 Jala Yeah, yeah, but like I still found myself attracted like and not not initially because I I think because when you're initially going through all these processes and it is literally.. The only thing that you're thinking about you're spending So you're burning so much of your time and your energy. Thinking about it obsessing about it being conscious of it that it's kind of outside of your your wheelhouse completely to to kind of you know, um think of of being with somebody who isn't also doing that you know, but once you kind of like ease off the pedal a little bit. And then like you expand your your reach to where that's not the only thing in your life anymore. That's when it's like oh no, actually you know I Love people the the end of the story. You know? So um, at least in my case. Ah, that's how that went. 01:54:11.31 Jala But yeah, like ah it it ended up ah changing the way that I I treated other people also because instead of being you know quote unquote one of those people who was the the introverted shy self-conscious person over there who wishes to be part of the group but is never going to speak up I was like. Bouncing around and everybody was admiring me and this that and the other so you know, um I would use that to then bring these people who were like on the fringes into the group and make them feel more loved and you know give them the attention and the Care. So. 01:54:42.99 Dave Jackson Yeah, that's awesome. 01:54:46.45 Jala So yeah, yeah, but yeah, how did your body image change and become different as your body changed over that time like when you were in the process. 01:55:01.22 Dave Jackson Um, it went from being not satisfied to being not satisfied in a different way. 01:55:08.53 Jala Yes, yes, exactly? Um, but but it's weird because like for me, it was not satisfied in a different way but then also more confident like again I I felt because like once you realized that like. 01:55:17.96 Dave Jackson Yeah, absolutely yeah. 01:55:24.54 Jala If you were in the the situation where you have control over your nutrition and you know you can do like focused workouts and things like that and you have that privilege. Ah if you have that and everything then you realize it's within your power to change things and that if you want. To to why you could get that you know super you know, trimmed up or whatever kind of body like granted within limits. We talked about that you know like genetics and this that and the other you know, um maybe the 6 pack that you're chasing would require because what? what that would require Dave again is like. 01:56:01.79 Jala Ah, personal trainer and lots of different like cycles of of training to build up your lean muscle mass to blah blah blah and it takes a lot of time to get there. But it's doable. It's just it's a dedication level that the average person's not going to want to do um and in all of this you know, um. 01:56:21.21 Jala But like the the body image that I had had this confidence to it and I was like but I was also becoming body dysmorphic in a way that I wasn't before I. 01:56:32.93 Dave Jackson Yeah, absolutely. 01:56:35.97 Jala I was self-conscious and I've had a kind of negative body image but not a severely negative body image that only happened when everybody was reinforcing me losing so much weight and then me looking you know and hyper fixating on any little bit of fat I still have my body you know, um. So yeah, like there were some definite negatives that happened but I also felt like oh I have the power to change things I have the power over over my situation. You know this doesn't you know this this body that I'm in doesn't dictate things I Dictate what's happening with this body Cool. That's Cool. You know and and having that confidence and that ability to like reach out to other people and and help them. 01:57:18.88 Dave Jackson Yeah, it. It definitely went from the feeling of like this is out of my control and I'm not satisfied with it to now where I am now which is um I'm not satisfied. Ah, but I am happy with the progress that I've made and I am in control of what's going on which is definitely preferable to the way things were so body image has definitely improved in that way. Um, and I do have like. The ability now to like accentuate the things about my body that I do like um I think that I have really good shoulders for example and so if I take the time and work out. I can have good looking shoulders and I like that and I can't say that I liked anything about my previous appearance and so positive body image is a part of my life now. It's not the only thing which I think is like the the more I think about it like being. 100% satisfied is I don't want to say not attainable for anybody. But I don't think that I will get there. Um, and it's just because what it took to lose a hundred and thirty pounds at one point. Um. 01:58:49.60 Dave Jackson As instilled like this this just daily concern in me about my weight and about my um, my habits so I will just like say straight up since I so let's see I started this on New Year's day of 2014 since then I have thought about this every single day every single day I think about what I'm eating I think about my weight I think about the way my body looks um so that concern is like I don't think that that's like super healthy. But it is the way that I stay on top of things. Um and it it contributes to me having a little bit of positive body image and then like that feeling of not being satisfied is a better version of the dissatisfaction that I used to have does that make sense. 01:59:48.16 Dave Jackson And that and sorry and that's that's something that like I didn't anticipate. Um, when I started doing it I did not think that ten years later I would still be thinking about it every single day. Um, I thought that I would do it and then I would move on and and live my life or something like that and that's that's something that I don't think anyone tells you about or maybe they tell you and you just go ha Not me or something like that I was not prepared for that. 02:00:19.17 Jala Yeah, yeah, so how my body image remained the same and is it still the same now. Um, so my body image remained the same while I was during that process in the way that I was still critical. 02:00:36.36 Jala I'm still critical and the thing is is that the moment that you are 100% satisfied with literally anything in your life is the moment that you're not going to grow anymore because you will you will stop reaching. So I think it's 100% healthy to not. 02:00:53.58 Jala Ever be 100% fully satisfied satisfied. Yes, fully satisfied. Not so much that's actually concerning in a different way. So um, what really changed for me insofar as like my body image and and how I really conceived of myself and you know. Again, kind of came into my power if you will is when I started doing bodybuilding because I had to not just go through cut cycles which I was already doing of course but also bulk cycles and eating more and gaining muscle and gaining. Fat but then trimming the fat off and then having even more muscle and then like you know having that complete control over the fluctuation itself in size one way or the other and that was kind of mind blowing to me because then that gave me the other part of it right? Not just. The shrinking but also the growing and I was like and now I have infinite power. You know, like um, even though in the last couple of years you know I've had a lot of bad situations that have made things harder for me and everything I'm not I haven't been stressing so much about my size as much like I've not been satisfied. 02:02:05.24 Jala I have not been feeling. You know as attractive as I might have felt you know in 2020 when I was in the middle of doing poll dance and 70 other things. Um, but I also I know the way there I know how to get there and I've been building muscles like I've got the muscle on my body I just need to. You know, adjust some other things in my training regimen which I'm going to be doing because I want to shrink a little bit for mo die. But I'm not going to be shrinking like the way I had shrunk before you know, not not to the unhealthy level not to the whatever and you know like it. It allowed me to to look at my body and you know what? like it's so. 02:02:41.40 Jala Like I I know what it takes to drop 10lbs I know I know I know how to do that I can do that if I need to I can you know adjust my macros a little bit and actually track my calories again because you know I a guy go through phases where I'll I'll use the calorie tracker and then I'm just like a. 02:02:43.36 Dave Jackson Yeah, exactly. 02:02:59.70 Jala And I just go by intuitive eating you know and most of the time just increasing my activity levels and being mindful of my hydration and my sleep helps like so much and just keeping keeping that um, processed food down really helps a lot. 02:03:16.50 Dave Jackson Yeah, for sure if you mentioned the like the bulk cycles and stuff So like I've been lifting since I started this like off off and on not you know, not anywhere near as consistent as as you do and stuff like that. Um. 02:03:34.70 Dave Jackson I Have always been terrified of doing a bulk and cut because I'm just afraid of gaining weight and even in a healthy way. Um, so I have never tried that despite me not really being satisfied I would like to be more muscular and I know that in order to do that I have to eat more. Um, but I'm too I'm too afraid to so I have never tried I have just always been around this same kind of ah way that I like this same level of Musculature. That's a word musculature. Yeah, um, it's and like. 02:04:10.92 Dave Jackson That's a body image thing too like I have to accept like I'm not going to be um, big bicep dude because I have really long arms and it's just you know if I if I scrunch it Up. It looks pretty good. But if I my arms flat. It doesn't look like I have ah. You know I don't have pythons or anything like that I got real long arms and I just have to accept that with just good though if I play Basketball Long arms are fun. 02:04:37.73 Jala Well and here's here's there's a lot of stuff. You just gave me a whole lot of stuff to talk about Dave. Okay, so like here here, let me put my trainer hat on. Okay, so um, first off about your biceps. 02:04:48.88 Jala That would be about your muscle insertion points which I don't know about like so ah, my muscle insertions on my arms are actually uneven and so we're so are Arnold Schwarzenegger's so um, his one bicep is it looks it peaks more is what that's called when it has the big lump on it. 02:05:06.17 Jala Ah, it peakeks more than the other one like I've got my left arm. It has like a longer longer kind of ah look to it. It doesn't peak very well on my left arm. But my right arm does peakek so like if I flex my muscles flex my biceps they are equally strong. They are equally big if you measure them. Um, but 1 of them looks bigger because it's just it's got the peak on it and the other one doesn't so muscles are weird like your insertion points have a lot to do with how how cool your your muscles look when you actually pump them up but then also about bulking. Um there is a you can slow bulk and that is the actually the. 02:05:45.47 Jala Best way to do it. Um, and I know that that the whole terrifying you know being terrified of gaining Weight. That's that's all fat phobia stuff which we talked about on the fat Phobia episode I've got books that I recommended on that episode for that particular thing. Um I had to work through it when I bulked because I was like. Oh no, the the the numbers going up wait to be I panicked I Panicked I had I had a whole meltdown but I trusted the process because I was doing this with um, you know some trainer friends of mine and you know like I trusted the process. They know what they're doing X Y Z and I bulked. 02:06:21.48 Jala And then I cut after that and I was like wow how much more muscle this is cool. You know and and then I was like oh now that I've done that and I've gotten past all the terror I understand that I have control over this. All of it. It's fine. Um, but it's hard to do. I understand it is um, definitely there are resources. There are easy. You know there are ways to slow bulk without eating. You know, significantly more like three hundred calories more than your maintenance level calories is about what you need for bulking. 02:06:54.60 Jala Um, you know for a slow bulk a decent bulk where you're not gaining as much fat. You're mostly just gaining muscle you do gain a little fat but not as much as you are muscle. But but I mean like numbers and stuff change as your weight changes as you look different. So like that's a whole thing. 02:07:04.58 Dave Jackson Gotcha. 02:07:12.97 Jala It's best to have somebody who's experienced help you with that. But it is possible and there are resources for again like the whole the whole fat phobia behind like the terror that you feel and that's normal like I I'm still everybody's battling fat phobia everybody because our society is fat phobic. So. We all have that internal bias. So we're all dealing with that. But so yeah, um, what are some things that no one usually talks about when it comes to significant weight change I've got 1 right at the top that um you you mentioned you didn't have and I'm kind of I'll admit I'm a little bit jealous. Ah, you said you didn't have. 02:07:44.80 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah. Okay, oh right. 02:07:52.20 Jala Loose skin I had 2 spots where I have seen I had significantly loose skin one of which I cannot get ah, get away from it's right there and I eventually am probably going to end up getting it tucked because like it really bothers me always has after I lost weight my neck. 02:08:11.40 Jala On on my chin to my neck. Ah, there is a what I call because I'm terrible to myself a lizard flap. It looks like the little frill on a lizard is what it looks like to me and that formed when I lost weight because that used to be where my double chin was and that just became loose skin and I've since. Gained weight and and gotten bigger and everything but that skin is still loose. It's still there. It's still Flappy. So I hate it. Um, when I take pictures I take pictures on one side of my body where you can't see it as much like I Very specifically am taking pictures on one side so you don't see it because I hate pictures of myself where that showing. 02:08:49.13 Jala So that's something that I'm working on like dealing with right I had the loose skin there and that that one's bad because I can't hide it at all. It's right there on my neck. It's on my on my neck and my chin you know like I can hide it in a photo I can't hide it in person. So you're going to see me one day and if I haven't had that tuck done on my neck. You're going to see it. 02:09:08.99 Dave Jackson Yeah, yeah I don't have the I don't have loose skin but I do have stretch marks. 02:09:16.40 Jala Oh I have lots of stretch marks but I had those from like when I hit puberty and then all of a sudden my hips ballooned out and this that and the other like I've got got definitely Indefin stretch marks. But um so I've got that I got the stretch marks but I also have um on my low belly. When I am at a lower body Fat. It turns into just a it used to turn into a big big flap of skin I think now because I have put on a lot more muscle that's kind of like recompt and gone away for the most part when I'm at a lower body fat because when I was. Um, doing all the poll and everything in 2020 which was the last time I was really feeling myself. Um that I didn't have like that loose skin at that time but I was at you know like a super trim look because I was just really fucking active I wasn't doing any special nutrition or anything I wasn't tracking anything. I was just very active and um, you know like I I look pretty baller in my opinion and I didn't have that loose skin. So I think over time that went away because I added muscle and that helped to offset it but you can't do anything about your chin damn. So So that was. 02:10:21.50 Dave Jackson Right? yeah. 02:10:25.70 Jala 1 for me. Ah for sure is is the loose skin that I didn't know but I had that for years and it really really bothered me for sure and I definitely was wearing lots and lots of like compression stuff to keep it all in and whatever. So um, that's that's a big one for me. How about I toss it to you. 02:10:45.57 Dave Jackson Ah, the biggest one is that I was definitely and still am kind of cold all the time. Especially when I was like fresh off of losing weight. Um I was just like. I feel like my cold tolerance dropped by like ° like it took and like my heat. My heat tolerance got better also like hot summer I was fine like I went traveling over in like Cambodia and Thailand and like it was hot and I was okay. Like stuff like that so that was like the good part of it. But here you know I live in Ohio I did live in Ohio. Also when I was losing weight the winter is and was still is still brutal because of that and I did not expect that at all. No one told me. So there's that um I had some hormonal issues because I lost a lot of weight in a relatively short period of time and the doctor told me that um, my testosterone was low and he said it was probably because I lost a ton of weight in a little over a year. Ah, so like I did lose it in a healthy way. But my body had a lot to adjust to so there was that didn't expect that um and then the the last thing I guess 2 things 2 other things. Um, the last thing that is like directly related to. 02:12:20.80 Dave Jackson Ah, losing weight is that it never ends basically like there's a reason why the the cliche thing to say is that it's not a diet It's a lifestyle change and you can when at the beginning of doing it. You can say yeah I'm up for that of course I'm up for that and. Like of course I am grateful that I I was successful in that so far but it never ends like I said I think about it every single day I think about how much I've eaten that day and if I have like like if I go home for the holidays. I think a lot of people feel this way. Go to my parents house for Thanksgiving I eat like an asshole for three days straight like a lot of people feel bad about that. But I feel really bad about that. So those things don't stop and I I didn't expect that. Um. And then the last thing is not directly related to weight gain but it is related or weight loss but it is related to maintaining your body image and maintaining like the lifestyle that allows you to stay. You know, positive or accept your body image and that is um, you talked about it earlier as you get older your body just kind of turns to goo. Um, but I've had injuries through the years um specifically like I had a shoulder injury that required surgery. 02:13:48.00 Dave Jackson And it was successful in the fact that I can put on a coat now without my shoulder screaming out but I can't do all the exercises that I used to love doing it just it just hurts and I can't do it and I've had to that's been a big thing like that has caused me. A bunch of stress and then eventually a level of acceptance where it's like you know I can't um I can't do that PNinety X yoga video anymore because I can't plank for a long time like I used to be able to it just wrecks my shoulder so stuff like that. Um you may. What I'm the point that I'm getting to is you may get to the the point that you want but there's just new shit is going to spring up related to your body because you're getting older and if you're exercising a bunch you are likely to hurt yourself at some point. Ah, even if it's not, You're not doing anything negligent Or. Um, too. Risky. It's just if you do active stuff you're you're going to get hurt. Sometimes it's just part of it. So The the roadblocks and like the never ending nature of it. All is something that not a lot of people talk about. And I was not really prepared for either. 02:15:04.51 Jala Yeah, yeah, so I will say the 2 injuries that I've had since 2020 neither of them came from training actually um. I I had like overuse injuries in extreme cases because of certain things during running but because I am a trainer in particular I have always been very cognizant of listening to my body and trying to do preventative stuff and conditioning. 02:15:34.24 Jala And also like you know, stretching and mobility work so that I don't injure myself and because of that like I have been lucky to not have ever hurt myself doing that like the the 2 things that happened to me had nothing to do with actually draining. Um. 02:15:50.30 Dave Jackson that's that's true yeah my my shoulder injury happened in college when I was playing baseball I swung the bat and my shoulder slipped out of the socket and slipped right back in? Um, but then little did I know there was a bunch of like. Scar tissue and unhealed damage in there and then like literally twelve years later I just threw repeated use of the shoulders suddenly it was just like that's too much and now you have to go have surgery. So yeah, it's not like Hurt myself. Um you know doing shoulder press or something like that. Although it probably didn't help. 02:16:27.90 Jala Yeah, well the thing is is that people in their um like hard line I have to go to the gym every day no matter what they will be very tired. They will go to the gym they will try to lift heavy because that's what's on their plan and then they will hurt themselves because they are exhausted or because they don't do. 02:16:45.76 Jala Any Kind of preventative stuff any kind of warm up any kind of cool down any kind of mobility work like there's any number of reasons like people people um only focus on the parts that they want to do because they're trying to get the big chest or the whatever you know and. Then like yeah but you also have to make sure that you don't fucking die. 02:17:03.23 Dave Jackson Yeah, I'm better about that now like I'm much better about you know I still get stressed if I don't work out I have a you know Ah a very low budget workout setup down in my basement and that's where I do my workouts now. So I have like it's not even like the oh I don't want to go to the gym. It's literally. It's like you know 10 seconds away from me right now. Um, so I still get stress out if I don't do it but I am better about being kind to myself if it's just like. You know what I did legs on Monday and then I did another workout on Tuesday and it's Wednesday and I'm just really fucking tired I'm just I'm not going to do it today. I'll do it tomorrow. You know I'm better about stuff like that. 02:17:43.47 Jala Well and and the thing is is that whenever I have something like that come up I am real tired or whatever. What I do instead is I'll do a mobility routine a yoga routine. I will just go through the warmup of whatever it was I was going to do just to get some movement in or just to do some Prehab Rehab you know whatever do some phone rolling. You know whatever, whatever, kind of thing you can do to either 1 make yourself feel better or to at least get some kind of movement in because. Part of the reason why you feel bad when ah, you don't work out when you're in the habit of doing so is not just because of all the mental crap like you know you put the pressure on yourself, but also because you get good hormones when you do the the thing so like. 02:18:34.33 Jala If you're used to that rush of that good hormone and then you don't do the thing then you're you're shortchanging yourself on those good hormones that make you feel better. So there's also that which is a very real physical thing that happens. So. 02:18:50.49 Jala But yeah, like the thing is too and this is this is again. This is something that's in the the fitness episode but ah, a lot of what I try to tell you if you don't have the energy for the entire thing do the warm up or just do some stretches. Just do what it like do something get a little bit active. Even if you're tired talk yourself into 5 minutes do your 5 minutes and then think about it. Can you do more or do you want to stop if you stop there, you still did 5 minutes that you wouldn't have done otherwise and. 02:19:20.82 Dave Jackson Yep, exactly. 02:19:22.28 Jala You know, like and and another thing that I'm starting to do now. Um as well is I'm doing what are called exercise snacks. So like I work from home. So every once in a while when I need a break from work like first off I have a desk that I can adjust to standing so I can stand and I can sit so I can. Change it up and I stand for part of my day for one which means that I get on my bosu ball my boso ball and I'll just like we will wobble around and stuff I will go off and if I need to step away from a computer because I want to scream at an agent or something I will walk away I will do like a set of squats. And then I will come back. You know or whatever and you just do a little bit of movement just to like get out of being sedentary the whole day like you need to break it up a little bit. Um, it actually is detrimental for your eyesight if you're focusing on something for more than um. Think it's 2 hours at a time so you need to at least every 2 hours get up and look at something that's further away and not so close to you for your eyesight's health but also for your body and for like you know, ah general morbidity. It's also important for you to get up regularly from your chair and go do. 02:20:37.42 Jala Something else for a little bit and be a little bit active and move around so throwing in some exercise snacks and like planning your day and going I'm going to do X number of squats or whatever you know, pick several exercises and do different ones you know, whatever that looks like for you cool. Do it, You know. 02:20:54.66 Jala Get some resistance bands but I'm next to you do a few things even if you're at the office. There are some stretches and stuff. You know you could even do some little ab crunches if you can lean off your chair for a second I mean like granted if your boss comes by you gonna wonder what the hell you're doing but like you know, like whatever then none you. 02:21:09.44 Dave Jackson Ah, ah yeah I Love Ah yeah I Love framing them as snacks I Love I like that that ah terminology. 02:21:13.39 Jala Business none your business. Oh I dropped a pen. Whatever who cares? So yes, yeah, yeah, but I mean like a lot of people think oh well if I can't do the whole thing I can't do a workout that's wrong. That's wrong. 02:21:33.90 Jala You know, like that's that's that that all or nothing black and white mentality that you also have when you're looking at nutrition and you're not allowing yourself any grace now anything literally anything that you do is more than you would have done if you hadn't talked yourself into those 5 minutes or whatever. So whatever that looks like for you. 02:21:51.74 Jala Do what you can manage. That's it. So so yeah, but anyway, yeah, so ah, any words of advice. This is the the wrap up part of the episode here. So any words of advice for folks who have a negative body image. 02:21:52.39 Dave Jackson Yeah, for sure. 02:22:06.81 Jala Or have had the weight fluctuation stuff or or whatever something something related to what we're talking about on the episode proper. 02:22:13.51 Dave Jackson Oh man as far as body image goes like I Still don't feel like okay so I will say I don't feel qualified to give advice about this so that is my advice like I I am here as somebody who. Ah, improved my health physical health improved my mental health in in some ways by doing this um and improved my overall body image but I'm not Satisfied. So. And know that that that may not sound great but the the advice is that like if you're not satisfied with it If you have negative body image that that there are not a bunch of mystical people out there who just fucking Love everything about their body and they have you know, no negative. Thoughts about it like this is all normal. This is all I feel like part of the experience in like the the society that we live in so there's that um, and and that like as far as like dieting and stuff go like I think that. I don't consider myself to be special like 1 of the things I was really afraid of like during the course of this this podcast is that it just sounds like you and I are patting each other on the back and you know like I don't think that that's what happened but I don't want to. 02:23:40.56 Dave Jackson Like come off as like this you know I have this superiority because I lost a bunch of weight like I don't consider myself to be special. Nothing I did is you know something that no one else can do you know it's just and I failed so many times trying to do it too and that's also part of it. Like advice about how to do it I Don't think I have anything to say that people don't already know but the thing that I I just want to make clear is that I still don't feel like I'm you know an authority. Or special in any way because of this. It's just something that everyone can do and it's you know I'm going through the same things that a lot of people are and so in that way because I'm not some special person. Other people can you know. Take action or make steps toward acceptance in the way that works for them too like that's it. That's most of my advice because I think the biggest part for me was getting over that initial hurdle of like what seems like a monumental task. Whether it be losing weight or being more positive about your body image or something like that. It seems like this herculean thing at least it did to me and so I I want people to know that I'm not special because I did. 02:25:13.12 Dave Jackson Improve some things like this. That's the main piece of advice is that there's nothing special about me. You can do it too. 02:25:20.60 Jala Right? And what did I say when I said the beginning of what my journey looked like as soon as I could what did I do I did 15 minutes of yoga from a little book and I slowly slowly slowly started to change my diet. 02:25:26.16 Dave Jackson Right. 02:25:38.67 Jala In these very small ways that people are usually surprised about when they look at you know the the kind of way that people kind of think of me more like a juggernaut these days right? So um, you know like changes are going to look different for everybody. Some people are the type of people who. They might quit smoking cold turkey and never go back. But there are other people who have to slowly wean off of it that kind of thing So like every single person's journey is going to look different and and my other big thing here you and this is a mantra of mine: You are very often your own self-limiter people have certain limits. We talked about that you know both of us operate from a place of some degree of privilege that we are able to work on ourselves in the ways that we are however at the same time you know. Aside from the limits that you have due to your work situation your this situation. Whatever kinds of things you've got going on your life aside from those a lot of people's problem is usually their own mental block. They tell themselves no and because they tell themselves. No It becomes. Ah self-fulfilling Prophecy I know that self-help books and stuff are always like gratitude journal and like honestly I understand that yes that does work for folks I Fucking Hate it I I hate it I hate it I Want to like you to beat something against the wall like I violently. 02:27:13.20 Jala You know, hate that. Okay, um, and that's for me and like I tend to be generally a pretty positive person. So Um I don't like that kind of thing that doesn't work for me. Okay, that doesn't work for me what works for everybody is going to be different how it pans out what the journey looks like is going to be different Also. It's a wiggly wobbly Journey. It's not a linear progression. It's all over the board. It looks weird and that's just how it is. It's like that if you are training for a marathon Sometimes you just have a bad run out of nowhere and you just have to deal with that. You know sometimes you go to the gym and you lift and for some reason like you think you're you're firing on all cylinders and you can't lift for shit that day such happens you know, um, everybody has their offtimes. Everybody has offseasons you know like I just talked about I had depression and family issues and all this other crap going on. 02:28:05.18 Jala So I haven't had the time to focus on myself as much and I'm slowly getting back into that so you know like you have to work with what you've got and you have to give yourself grace for whatever your situation is you know you have to be realistic about your expectations of what you can and cannot do and you need to do. Yeah, you have to work on it trial and error and find what works for you. Whatever that looks like if that's self-acceptance if that is a slow gradual change if that is a sudden overnight Overhaul Whatever that looks like you know as long as it's healthy. And as long as you are happy. 02:28:43.76 Dave Jackson Agreed. 02:28:47.88 Jala Yeah, that's it, mic drop. Okay. 02:28:48.99 Dave Jackson Yeah, couldn't couldn'tness said it better myself and I'm glad that I went first so I don't have to follow that. 02:28:59.33 Jala Ah, well well at this point we will shift to our socials and then get on out of here. So Dave where in the world can people find you on the internet if you are to be found. 02:29:10.22 Dave Jackson Yet ah, people can find me on the tales from the backlog podcast and a top 3 podcast those are my shows about video games and top 3 lists on Twitter I'm @realdavejackson although I don't use my personal Twitter account very much anymore. But it's there. Ah you also find me @realdavejackson on Discord which is where I spend most of my social time. So if you're in Jala's server. You probably see me from time to time in there. Um come say hi if you don't already say hi on a regular basis. Ah, come say hi. That's mostly where I hang out I have my own Discord server too. Ah, but you know that's that's related to my podcast stuff so you come hang out if you'd like to but come say hi and jallless server to um, that's where I spend most of my time is on discord I'm also. Yeah, I'm also on in my podcast has you know Instagram and Twitter accounts and stuff like that too just search Tales From the Backlog. You'll find me there. We go look in the show notes. 02:30:11.91 Jala Links in the show notes in the show notes. It's that easy follow Dave Jackson and say hi because he's wonderful. so yeah, so yeah that's you me I'm real easy. 02:30:19.22 Dave Jackson Thank you. 02:30:25.92 Jala I'm @jalachan in all the places that I can be found including jalachan.place where you found this episode and all of the others so that is all for now folks until next time take care of yourself and remember to smile. [Show Outro] Jala Jala-chan's Place is brought to you by Fireheart Media. If you enjoyed the show, please share this and all of our episodes with friends and remember to rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice. Word of mouth is the only way we grow. If you like, you can also kick us a few bucks to help us keep the lights on at ko-fi.com/fireheartmedia. Check out our other show Monster Dear Monster: A Monster Exploration Podcast at monsterdear.monster. Music composed and produced by Jake Lionhart with additional guitars and mixed by Spencer Smith. Follow along with my adventures via jalachan.place or find me at jalachan in places on the net! [Outro Music]