Steve McDowell 0:00 Steve, are you ready? All right, ready? All right. All right. We are on our first roadshow 2023. It's the first week of 2023. And you and I are in San Jose, San Jose. Yes. Nutanix world headquarters with Nutanix is Lee Caswell. Lee Caswell 0:20 SVP of Product Marketing, Steve McDowell 0:21 SVP of product marketing lead. Caswell and we talked to Lee, quite a bit, I think that was at HP discover we wanted 22. I want to start off, you've been with Nutanix. Just about a year, about a year. Yeah, that's a good move. Lee Caswell 0:36 It's been a great move, a great move, you know, I love bringing new technologies to market. And you know, one of the interesting things was watching the evolution of what started off this hyper converged infrastructure, which is, you know, essentially getting a web scale server based software defined system, right. And, you know, that's super excited, because monitoring infrastructure is based on servers, right? See, see that? So that's, that's interesting. But then watching this next wave of adoption happening, you know, the Nutanix architecture turns out right is ideally suited for taking performance workloads that were typically on three tier architecture, sand Level products. And so watching this architecture now with full snapshot, replication data services, like take this market on and accelerate right now, super fun. Matt Kimball 1:21 It's interesting, because, you know, for even when virtualization first came out, even up till very recently, there are only so sacred cows when it came to right what you through in a in an environment and what you've kept kind of, and it's like Nutanix seems to be breaking all that down, right, database driven, very low latency kind of driven applications now. Lee Caswell 1:42 Yeah, I think, you know, in the early days of virtualization, compute virtualization, right? Yes. You know, we watched the first applications weren't databases, right. First applications were like DHCP, DHCP, servers, print servers, file servers, right. And we used to call them crap applications. Yeah. Right. So and then what happened, though, you know, within five years, as the performance got tuned, people were like, hey, this approximates bare metal performance standpoint. And I get all the management benefits. Yeah. And so all of a sudden, that dynamic that the calculus changed from, what can I put on to virtualization, to what can't I put on to virtualization? And there were certain things like the sacred cows like AIX, you're putting that in a virtualized environment, right. But the idea was that you basically looked and said, everything that I can put on virtualization, I will. And that's what's happening with HCI. Right. So, you know, this company over the last 10 years, has taken this from the VDI workloads, which were great out of the data center paid, it's well not that critical, right? These are OS images. But now right performance workloads, right, SQL Server number one other databases all the way to SAP is now certified as for SAP HANA, right? Performance and reverie databases, right? So you're saying, listen, any workload can run on ACI environment. So let's go take a look at for the first time people are talking about costs. Right. Last last three years. Nobody mentioned cost, nobody was free. Yeah, well, it's happening these days, right. So all of a sudden, HCI is now way up in the food chain, right about thinking, hey, how do I go and be relevant for the next five years? So Steve McDowell 3:18 as people's expectations of HCI have also changed? Yeah. Nutanix started off, it was an on prem and the box HCI. Right. And now every enterprise is hybrid multi cloud. Lee Caswell 3:29 That's the thing, right? So yes, 10 years ago, people were thinking like on prem or cloud. Right, right. And so, you know, if people are thinking that today, we're like, Boy, you really got to get with it, right? Because it turns out data, people know, that data is likely to be distributed through because of the nature of data, right? It's not fast and free to move it. You know, basically, you know, there are egress fees, depending on where you press it now, where you put it in place. And data sovereignty is pretty important issue, right? So now you start thinking, well, the data is likely to be distributed and the applications, what's interesting is, as you have multiple points of presence, also economy and right, you start thinking the value now is in having a platform that connects these three. And so you'll see a starting, you know, we've talked a lot about HCI as the infrastructure piece, even though we're a software company right, now, you're gonna be hearing us talk more about the platform, right? And the platform is what gives you these different points of presence, where, hey, we've got the data center, of course, yep, strong center for us, right with over 24,000 customers. You got the cloud right now with AWS and Azure supported, but then also, like, you know, we've got data showing that 50% of data is going to be at the edge. Yeah. Right. So you're thinking that's a lot of endpoints, right, you know, used to be like robots. So as you start thinking about that, that platform element needs it, hey, I've got this same flexibility, regardless of where the data Steve McDowell 4:51 and applications are going to be. And building on a framework such as Nutanix. Is that removes me from a lot of the dependencies I might have with a cloud provider, for example. Lee Caswell 4:59 Yeah. so well, and so you start thinking, listen, we're seeing customers take a very considered approach to what applications they introduces, like pas level, right? Where you're actually taking individual discrete services. And there's a very powerful ones by individual cloud companies. And those are going to be probably specific to that cloud. Sure, forever. Right. So think about that. But then there are other applications where you think, hey, like, maybe I want to move those over time, or expand them, I acquire a company and I have got to get to a new that region, right? I want to expand that presence, right. And I'll can do it with Nutanix. With portable licensing, for example, that works, and integrated networking, right, that works across those different locations. So all of a sudden, I start thinking for power, for cost, for performance. And for data sovereignty. Steve McDowell 5:51 Let me characterize my apps, and look at which ones I might want to move across that hybrid cloud. In fact, we talk about hybrid cloud. It's not just on prem and public cloud, right? We're seeing we're in the middle right now a dramatic rise of as a service typify by HP Greenlake. Right there, they kind of set the bar. Yeah, we have a relationship stronger than HPE Lee Caswell 6:12 has been a terrific partner for us. Right. And, you know, in part, you know, it started because of, you know, great hardware by pretty quickly, right, and moved into, hey, this as a service model consumption based. And the reason that's important and actually tied to our value proposition is that customers are having increasingly difficult times planned, right, trying to predict the future, right? Who could guess we're here where we are a year ago? We haven't, right? So you start thinking, Well, how do I go and make sure that I'm protected for the degrees of freedom, I'm most likely to exercise, right? So those start looking like this, like, Hey, I might need different protocols, not just blocks, but anyway, blocks and files and objects. Instead of buying different architectures. How do I have one platform, right, that goes and gives me extensibility? Nutanix can do that. Right? That's the sort of thing that you start thinking about containers is another one, right? How do I have containers and VMs supported with a common platform that gives you a solve? So your Dustin explode all of the operating costs that you'd have otherwise? Matt Kimball 7:14 I love I love also the idea of Nutanix and HPE, providing that cloud operating model, right? So, you know, we talk about this quite a bit where, you know, you're talking about being able to forecast a year out from a capacity perspective, or mine that what new apps, right, what killer apps are going to invade the enterprise next, and how do I support this enterprise? It already has a skills gap. Right? Right, that time to value that time to, you're turning on new services is greatly reduced. Lee Caswell 7:41 Well, this is a market changed from the days remember when ERP systems and CRM system used to plan like around five year time horizons. So you come in and you say, Hey, listen, what do I plan? I'll build that out. And I'll bleed that asset down. And it's sweated out for the next five years, right? Well, that's not the date. You know, if you just take your phone, how many applications have you opened today? Oh, right. Is it more than a year ago? Probably right. So you start thinking like, hey, how do I go and keep up with the developers? Yeah. And that's what's happening across the board is, you want to be able to make sure that it is not in the business of saying no, right? Right. And the reason we say no, but by the way, is pretty good reasons. Right day to operations, security, compliance reasons, right? And actually, right now cost, right, make sure so what happens right is I have seen many customers, making sure that their IT departments remain relevant as the pace of application development increases. So now, like you've got these, this wave of new applications, how do I make sure that I can go provide all that value, and make sure it can go on to be delivered? At like today's pace of applications? Matt Kimball 8:48 While we simplify certainly just put a close on that while simplifying the management, especially for enterprise IT, Lee Caswell 8:54 right? Because listen, it turns out, right, if you have to have someone who's exploiting every individual things, right, I kind of go back to the days remember when we were scanners and printers and copiers, faxes, and everyone had a different UI. So consolidating all of that, right, all of a sudden said, Hey, this is the great solve right for how do I do one thing, and I can power it in one place, manage it as a single thing? Yep. This is what HCI does. It allows you to manage across multiple locations for different applications, and do it all from a common interface. So you don't explode out that op X profile. Steve McDowell 9:27 And I don't have to sacrifice performance. You run bare metal on AWS. This is the AWS on Lee Caswell 9:32 Azure. Well, yeah, so bare metal on Azure Ray was jointly engineered between Nutanix and an Azure. And the reason you know, especially because, you know, we weren't firstness right, to go and be able to run on Azure, but to be able to run on this jointly engineered system. We were first and the reason why was integrating with a network stack right Express Route was incredibly important to be able to extend the network across this time. Hybrid cloud architecture. And that's what's interesting is giving you speed. Right? So we're showing that you can actually get to cloud faster. We have a lot of customers who are kind of rebound, people who said, I don't need to meet with you anymore, because I'm going all in on the cloud, and come back and say, wow, it's a year later. And obviously, I'm gonna get like, 200 applications that I've gotten mine down. Yeah. And, you know, my options are either I, like, I paid like a service provider a ton of money. How do I figure this out? Yeah. Well, so what we're offering them right is the idea to go and re host without replatforming are refactoring. Yeah. And that's really important on it. That's what gives you the flexibility to say, I can move it, I can manage it from a single common management plane, right? And then you know, that flexibility to say, I may want to move it again over time. Yeah, you can do that right, without any penalties here. Matt Kimball 10:53 Next, it's really a rationalization of your clouding or your environment, right? Regardless, we said regardless of the income, well as Lee Caswell 11:00 we just, you could go through a holiday meal, like the Christmas meal, right, and you got like your race to get the dishes in the dishwasher, right? And all of a sudden, you're like, hey, they, well, they didn't fit and I got a lot more left. What do you do? You go back and you start re optimizing things. So you can go and figure this out? Right? This is what's happening on applications that were developed in the cloud. Yep. Yep, I basically did it super fast. And now you got the bills coming in, and the skills in your left, hey, how do I take care of that bills and skills gap? Yeah, it turns out in HCI, is a really good way to go and optimize over time for what makes a little more sense. That's a good point. Steve McDowell 11:33 So a few minutes ago, you were listing off all of the attributes that an IT guy is looking for a solution. And you missed the one that I think is driving a lot of conversations today, which is sustainability. The other place, Lee Caswell 11:46 you can start thinking about, you know, consolidation, by its very nature, right helps you eliminate individual silos of underutilized assets. Right? And you'll see more from us this year, because it's a very hot topic around our customers, right? I mean, I think intuitively, it's obvious, right? That is you took that kind of scanner planner facts and you brought those together, right? You can eliminate separately powered Fibre Channel infrastructure, right, or San and NAS systems that are separate today. Right? You can bring that together. And you can also optimize it over the kind of that unpredictable workloads, right, so you've got a better chance of getting optimal performance or optimal capacity, which can help drive substantially. The other aspect is probably more interesting in an operating model, which is that if you use an AGI system, which are server, x86 server based increments, the cost of being wrong, it's actually pretty nominal. Right? Right. So let's say I need more performance or capacity. I didn't just like buying the wrong thing in a storage construct is pretty expensive. And kind of a CIO and CFO level like, Hey, I made I messed up. This is basically a lot simpler than that. Right? It's, I can seamlessly expand the system. Yeah, one of the big value propositions, right? Early on in VDI by the way was that, hey, I could seamlessly scale this as I added more VDI instances into a cost effectively and seamlessly, while that same value proposition now today says, Hey, let's say I have new container based set of applications, and I want to bring those in. Awesome, great, let's go do that. Right. And, you know, our partnerships there. And you know, there we work with HPE. And also with Red Hat right now great opportunity to bring those partnerships together and help deploy this. A lot of that, by the way, we see that growth happening at the edge. Yeah, and you'll see this happening in AI ml in the future, right thinking about training in the cloud. inferencing at the edge, right, it's a very, you know, a thoughtful way of thinking, hey, how does AI ml come into the enterprise, and how to enterprise IT organizations remain relevant, right, and an environment where that's going to be a more cost effective way than having it all be in the cloud natively? Matt Kimball 13:56 Well, and I go back, going back to something you talked about earlier with Green Lake as well, as you know, one of the reasons why AI ml has not really taken hold, there's so many projects that have started enterprise, you know, stalled because skills gap builds gap, right. Steve McDowell 14:13 Right, exactly. Matt Kimball 14:14 If I can rely on a partner like Nutanix with a, you know, with a trusted ecosystem partner like HPE with Greenlake. Yep. To command understand what I need optimize that deploy it, it's point and click simplicity for me as an IT person. Yes. Right. You're taking the heavy lifting, lowering my Lee Caswell 14:29 cost. And one of the ways we're doing that, right is we're prioritizing what we call workflows, right? And the workflows, natural language processing is, you know, a, an important one, you know, you can see this coming into financial services, right into any of the travel, retail manufacturing environments. And then the other one is, you know, computer vision, right. So how do you think about that being deployed? And we're gonna see this across retail environments right around? How do you make a retail experience, like somehow better than going on the web? and just buying something right over a point and click right. So that idea, like, I'm going to go into a store and have a customized experience, right with coupons delivered to me, that'd be, listen, these are areas of the future. But we're gonna see this become real, right as you basically bring the cost down and allow you to do this in a way that says that training in the core, or the cloud inferencing. At the edge is a way to cost effectively deliver this across the distributed edge. Yeah. Matt Kimball 15:26 Yeah. So kind of changing gears a little bit, Steve, and I went to our first next conference, and what was it 2018? And it was, I mean this in a positive way, but it was almost cult like your following. You have dedicated customers who are very enthusiasts, yes. Right. Steve McDowell 15:41 Every earnings, you publish your NPS, you're sitting, right, which is Lee Caswell 15:45 unheard of. Right. And I, I learned why we have that, by the way, but we'll come back to that. Matt Kimball 15:51 That's part one. And part two is, you know, is there a specific company type, like a typical Nutanix? Customer? Is it size wise, vertical wise, geo wise? Lee Caswell 16:03 Yeah. You know, I think in the early days, right, Nutanix really appealed to the commercial customer, or maybe smaller enterprise customer, who was looking for, like kind of an escape valve, right? They're looking for a way to go and get like a cloud like experience without going to the cloud or to get, you know, experience that gave them an enterprise level. It, you know, capabilities. But without an enterprise level wallet. That's kind of the early days right. Now, bringing performance in all NVMe performance, right to rival the top sounds right? It was like a key element to this. But what I found right interesting is that with the Broadcom situation, right now, things have materially changed for the VMware customer base. That is that there's a huge element of kind of risk that was never there. VMware was always the safe bet, and is a great company, right? And has great products. But the idea that all of a sudden, right? And we haven't seen a merger of this sort of disparate companies, right, since Oracle bought Sun, right. I mean, that was kind of a shock. I think people are shocked to see that, like, how is it possible, right, that these two companies are coming together? And you know, Sun was a bastion of innovation, right? All new ideas and everything. But you know, within a year, right, I mean, it was Oracle. Right. And there's no doubt and then right, the products were serving Oracle products. And, you know, there's all the things that kind of happened from there that was providing risk to the customer, the customer base today. And so that's what we're seeing, right? You know, there's a lot of customers coming to us. One of the things I heard recently that I thought was interesting is, you know, very large enterprise customers coming in and saying, Hey, we really are looking at HCI as a way to be relevant five years from now, right? And what we want to know from you is, can you be not Greenfield at small scale? Anybody can do that. Right. But we need you to bring brownfield at large scale. Can you do that? And so we're like, well, listen, you know, if you want to run vSphere today and run our aos stack to have at it, we're not pressing you to do that. About half our customers do that anyway. Although in our last quarter, 61% bought HV, really? Right. Yeah. So you're watching this, like now starting to fit. And so similarly, right? Our carbon product, right, you know, supports Kubernetes orchestration. But we're also partnered, right preferentially with Red Hat, for example. And, you know, our company has provided different hardware options, but our relationship with HPE has soared, right, as you looked at the value that our two companies brought together to a Venn diagram overlap, right, that's, you know, almost one to one to one, right. So, you look at this and think, you know, gosh, there's a really interesting play for how you manage risk over the long term. And so I think the Broadcom situation, right is probably the most concerning price is usually the first thing that customers are worried about corte secondly, is supporting when you've talked about rnps, one of the things that's interesting is this company has a very Nutanix has a very different approach to support, which is, you know, a complete ownership of the customer. And that is really different. And I've seen, you know, the NPS scores that we have, don't forget the ranges from minus 100 to plus 100. Right. And we're at 90 for seven years in a row. That's right, that says there's something structurally different about what we're doing here. Yeah. And probably the biggest risks, who said, things that worked really well customers kind of say, it can't be that hard, right? What we're saying, right, and so now you've now the option right and or the opportunity for us is to show that that same experience, right is available now that there's a compelling reason for the younger customers to consider an alternative. Matt Kimball 19:48 Okay, so hey, again, Dawn, kind of shifting gears a little bit. You know, you talk about some of the low hanging fruit for HCI in the in the early years, right? Yeah. Database starts getting introduced and it becomes a real well suited workload for HCI? Yeah, what do you see kind of in 2023? You know, what are the trends? You see, right applications? What workloads? Do you feel like? The next big thing? Lee Caswell 20:09 You know, there's natural extensions of what we've done far in VDI, for example, right? You know, we were originally the block storage for the VMDK images, right? Os images. Now all sudden, you could take your files, right? So think about, hey, every one of those had the file system, they're waiting a file or for running user data. Yeah, well, you know, you can go and consolidate again, right, by taking that that's a pretty natural extension, if you will. And then the interest on the intercept of new applications, I think is really important for customers to think about, right? You want your infrastructure to be running the new applications, because otherwise you get cut off from what the latest development trends are. Right? And you know, what's new is containers, and, and Kubernetes. Right? Now, in the early days, a lot of folks thought that containers were potentially the end of virtualization, right? Oh, yeah. It was like, hey, you know, like, why do we need virtualization? And what we found out was that containers were about the speed of application development. Yep. Right. We're HCI is about the speed of being able to have remediated infrastructure protected infrastructure. And so I actually found out, Hey, these are really complementary and not, you know, they're not competitive, and that's in. So, you know, what I'm watching is that we've got about a third of our customers already running some level of containers. And now what we found is Kubernetes wants that kind of, you know, standardized, so we've got Kubernetes as the basis, but we're supporting all of the different Kubernetes, whether it's rancher or Red Hat, we've got, you know, support for Eks a now, right? AKs, all of this coming together, right? So that customers are getting the choice. Now what happens is, as that settles out, customers are going to be able to support the choice they have, without swapping out their infrastructure. Yeah, yeah, that's really important. And you know, the last thing we found our I said, some people thought, well, we just go bare metal in that kind of like Hadoop from everyone who do bare metal, right. But the problem is, you got overwhelmed with the support for individual valuable servers. Yep. So this is a really interesting way to go get the value of enterprise, it protected storage, right, they do operations on it, and basically now be able to support applications, regardless of where they are. Yeah, that Matt Kimball 22:25 openness that you it's, it's, there's a pragmatism, you bring to the equation as Nutanix understanding that no two customers are alike, and you have to support customer choice, regardless of customer choice. Yeah. And I love that story about how you're able to do that. And I think the interesting part is, you mentioned the VMware and Nutanix number. It's like, it's embracing the fact that, you know, customers have their choice, and you're gonna, you're gonna be there for them regardless. Lee Caswell 22:53 Well, so you know, we've got customers now who are thinking, well, the application is what they want to have at the top of the org structure. Are the developers even right? And that's pretty different. Right? It used to be developers were kind of off in their own little court, right? And then infrastructure people were here, right? You have tickets going back and forth. So the idea that all of a sudden, you need to have the infrastructure be developer ready? Yep. Right. Right. So that developers can come and say, Hey, I need to get this done fast. You know, the risk otherwise, is that you would go and put everything on the cloud. The problem is standardized, and one cloud. People know, right data, people know it's not pragmatic to centralize on one cloud, and right for cost, performance or security reasons. And so that idea that hey, listen, I, I think that platform, Ellen, now one thing we haven't talked about is she, when you start talking about platforms, you start thinking a little bit differently. We're talking about infrastructures like there's a license, right, and you guys like our appliance, right? We start talking about our platform, now you're talking about as a service models, this is where the HPE Greenlake relationship is so important. The customer looks at a platform. Also, we're talking about a product, because that's what the product does. We're talking about a platform, it's like, what are the API's that give it the extensibility to allow me to go and support v4 API's? For example, right? Or can I support TerraForm or Ansible? Getting those choices through Kubernetes, you're just talking about, give me those choices that says the platform is now this extensible air element. And you'll look at that right over time as to how to think about this. And lastly, right? Instead of talking about like storage, like file block object, increasingly, you're talking about data services. That's right. And you can map our data services right into whether they're storage services, in our case, or our database as a service offering is now a way to go and give an application level service to provision protect, do copy management of databases at scale, and once again, consolidate things that were done independently. That's Matt Kimball 24:55 a big one for me. I'm an ex IT guy, and I remember the day The DBAs are the most depressed people in the organization. Lee Caswell 25:03 oppressed or depressed? Matt Kimball 25:06 There you go, you know, I mean, the sleepless nights, the amount of our the hours that goes into care and feeding for your environments on a week to week basis and the cost associated with that, and then it goes, going back to the skills gap. Yeah, I love what you guys have done with your database service you have in so many ways. Lee Caswell 25:25 Yeah, I mean, you know, I remember the days when, you know, a network, I would think, Hey, I like provisioned a router. It was a good day. Right? Yeah. And all of a sudden, like that work just became uninteresting. You know, once you can do it in software, certainly right provisioning databases at scale, you know, organizations that have hundreds or 1000s of databases, to be able to do that with a service. Right? That's all for now frees up time really expensive time? Because one of the key things right is how do you attract and retain talent? Right, right. So you think like, hey, if I'm gonna have this distributed world, one of the things I have to be able to have people, right, who can manage this right at scale across the cloud? How do I do all of that? The idea that I'm consolidating management pools, right, I don't need you know, in the early days, for us, it was you didn't need management people who knew how to manage like Fibre Channel Lunz zoning or things like that, right. But now the idea of provisioning databases at scale, that that can be done automatically in an automated format. That's it's really powerful for organizations looking how to basically optimize who's doing the work. And you know, how many people do you have to have to do it effectively, Matt Kimball 26:34 and the kind of work they're doing to what you're saying, right? Yes, don't want to be spending their time to back up their resume, they want to be more concerned. And to what you're also to that it's like in the in the data era, we've gone from Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, three major database, and we'll throw Postgres in there, too. Oh, what's this thing called? No SQL. Right, right, Mongo, exactly. All these and all these different flavors of SQL? And how do you have a staff that's going to be able to it's impossible, right? Lee Caswell 27:01 So you start thinking about, like, how do you take advantage of open source? Almost right? Yeah, I started thinking about that. Right. But haven't be it. Like, I call it protected. But I mean, it's basically make sure that you're able to deliver the day to operations, security, and right all the things that you expect. And that's what Nutanix is helping, right? Our HP product, right came out of open source, for example, right? But is, you know, fully protected, certify, right for all the leading operating systems, including Red Hat now, right. So you start looking and saying, Hey, this is how I go and get enterprise level support. But get into a cost basis. Right, that gives you taps you into the open source community. Yeah. Steve McDowell 27:40 So we could talk about this handy. So it's January, before we wrap up, its Happy New Year, it's time for predictions where where are you? Where's Nutanix? Focused? Lee Caswell 27:51 Yeah, so what you'll see this year, right, is that as we've opened up the number of let's call it points of presence, right, started with AWS retail sort of database, you know, the data center, right. And AWS added Azure, right, have the edge as endpoints, right. You're starting to watch the value of our network, this platform rise up. I don't know if you guys know Metcalfe's Law, right. Everybody knows Moore's law, Metcalfe's Law, right was, you know, a value of a network increases exponentially as the number of endpoints increases. So as we add the number of endpoints, right, the value of this platform starts growing dramatically. So I see our value growing as customers evaluate, and then start implementing plans for the next five years, on how to go and build out this, what we call hybrid multi cloud. And the reason we call it hybrid, by the way, is now hybrid is super a subset of multi cloud, right? Hybrid is kind of the edge to the, you know, to the cloud, where the data center has almost just one more edge, coming back. And so and then multi cloud, of course, is going across clouds. So you know, cloud cloud cloud edge, but so as the number of those connections increases, right, our value increases, as I mentioned, and what I'm finding from a customer standpoint is they're looking trying to figure out, how do I essentially build a plan to support applications in an unpredictable environment? Yeah. And so what's happening is we say, here's the degrees of freedom we offer. Are these the ones you need? As opposed to here's like, what a future future future checklist looks like? Yeah. And so those degrees of freedom I love what clouds do you plan to run it? Right? What edges, Edge applications? What sort of GPUs do you expect to handle in the future, right? What sort of GPUs are you thinking of? Right? Why don't we start thinking about and take all of those degrees of freedom, right? And say, we've got enterprise capabilities for a platform, and we're going to give you the degrees of freedom you're likely to expect and now customers can say, hey, this is what I need, right? And for those things that they want to have be like, specific to a cloud. Have at it right? But Don't forget about the bills and skill shortage over time. And that's what I expect to see as customers are increasingly looking. They want the hybrid multi cloud world. They're now in a place where they're accepting that that is the reality. And they're coming to us, right, in part because of the Broadcom situation. But in large part because they realize that this is the future of a server base Software Defined architecture, right, that transcends this hybrid multi, Steve McDowell 30:28 and I liked how you describe it. We were speaking earlier, where you said the data center is just another endpoint. Lee Caswell 30:33 Really, it's just another endpoint that you know, for a lot of customers, right? They're thinking, imagine, right, if you're doing this AI model, he talks about training to the edge. Well, that, where's the data center that you know, this? You know, so you start thinking about the data centers, just one location here, another location here? I've got take Dr. Right. Dr. has been a large unsolved problem for years, right. And in a ransomware. World, this is very important thing. How do I think about now, my target could be anywhere. That's right, I get a target in the cloud. I can have targeted at the edge, I can have this distributed model. This gives a level of flexibility, right, that hasn't really been anticipated. I think customers are going to come to that our dot next conference coming up in May like to mention in person, great opportunity to see more about this. And what does it mean to have data services that go across the hybrid multi cloud? You'll see a lot about that truly goes across? Yes. Right. All right, Steve McDowell 31:25 Billy, thanks for taking the time. It's awesome talking to Lee Caswell 31:27 you guys. And happy new year. Steve McDowell 31:29 We don't see you before we'll definitely see you I think it's in Chicago. There we go. Yeah, exactly. In May. Alright. for not doing it in Vegas. Lee Caswell 31:36 I know. I know. Chicago. animes. Pretty good. Yes. Thanks, guys.