Questioning: A Tale Of Concrete Revival - Street Epistemology With Anthony Magnabosco

2018, The Nonsequitur Show
Season 1
http://www.nonseqshow.com

Anthony Magnabosco is a worldwide promoter and practitioner of Street Epistemology, which is a conversational method for respectfully challenging claims by asking probing questions to uncover the reliability of one’s belief formation process. He has appeared on The Thinking Atheist, The Atheist Experience, The David Pakman Show, Cognitive Dissonance, The Friendly Atheist Podcast and blog, as well as several other podcasts and shows. Anthony has inspected hundreds of people’s beliefs using this approach, frequently uploads videos of those discussions to his YouTube channel (magnabosco210), and has given several talks, interviews and workshops on the subject. Be prepared to question your own conclusions on how to effectively engage with a God believer or anyone else who happens to make a claim!
Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:26] This is The Audacity Of reason this is non sequitur,
season 1 episode 9 questioning at a love concrete Revival Especial interview with Street,
epistemology West Anthony magnabosco join in on the discussion and check out upcoming episodes at www.com sex show.

[0:48] Music.

[1:12] We are now joined by Anthony magnabosco I've been I've been practicing all day long.
I'm over and over again how to say epistemology so I think that I finally,
haven't it's been tripping me up for the past couple days but epistemology if it's Tamala G,
so you ain't tripping over my last name from her than anything else exactly Street epistemology is,
what's funny when you said that you were practicing epistemology what I went out for the first time five years ago to try Street epistemology I had my camera with me and I was talking to it I had an ELD up and I was looking at it,
and I will I tripped over the word myself no epistemology is the study of knowledge.
Street epistemology is a philosophy professors take on the Socratic method thinking,
hey maybe if we ask people questions how they could be so sure that their belief is true it might help them reflect on their belief,
examining the method,
that a person you used to be so sure that their belief is true so he wrote this book people started going out and uploading examples where they were doing this on the street you don't have to go out on the street and do these talk so you can just.

[2:44] What what wait wait for them to happen,
it's but I need examples there weren't examples out there so I thought you went out with my camera and I couldn't barely even pronounce the word epistemology and I barely even knew what street epistemology was,
but I thought well let me just try this because I was arguing and debating with Believers and I thought this this might be a,
a more effective way in rough helping a person reflect on a deeply held belief and it turns out,
that it seems like it might actually be be working it seems like it actually might be an effective tool I've seen on I've seen several videos and.

[3:18] It's a stark contrast I think to what people are are used to sing on YouTube you know they're used to seeing the,
contentious you know I'm right you're wrong kind of thing in your video seem to take on a different aspect there they're more like a conversation and,
everything civil you know so I think that you're right and turn in a way that that kind of can break through two people what would you say that you're you're.
Rate is dropping how to work this but your rate of.

[3:49] I want a conversion but where you where you can tell that you're getting through and that they might be questioning kind of what they believe before talking to you I'll ask you a question.
This might sound terribly cocky but it's for one thing and so it if there if the if the parameter is.
That a person slow down to think about their belief and started questioning.

[4:16] Then it's probably 75% like I think it's very very high oh wow and you write like I'm not arguing with them I'm not debating with them.

[4:25] And while I'd like to say that he's our conversation sometimes they don't really go like a back-and-forth conversation like we're having some times are a little more directed like let me ask you a whole bunch of questions in 5 or 10 minutes and let's really explore your belief.
It doesn't often allow for a back and forth but there's there's nothing saying that you can't do that but yeah I think.
If if a person is using Street epistemology and they're using Socratic questions to gently challenge how a person can be so sure that their belief is true.

[4:55] And you focus on the method that they used.

[4:59] Very very high percentage of those people I think slow down and they think about their belief in the end of walking away thinking about it more yeah.
So what would you take us through kind of your method like when you go out how do you kind of size up who you're going to talk to,
and once you get that particular individual scope out I guess how do you approach it from there and what's the kind of methodology that you take from that point on okay let me just preface that by saying Kyle.
The approach that I use is not like the.
Suggested a recommended it just what I'm comfortable doing it said um that is sort of been honed over the years,
and it may not even be optimal I don't even know like what so what I do for those that don't know I walk around with a whiteboard,
telemarketer and a timer and Ice people they can chat for 5 minutes so I'm stopping strangers that tend to look fairly friendly and that they might have some time to kill so right then and there are probably selectively picking people.
People have the option to agree or not I don't force anybody.
I think they not a few man I don't want to talk to you or like what are you selling I've had people just like they're just very defensive right from the get-go,
but I try to explain what I'm doing I'm asking questions to pick a belief I want to pick up believe that you really think is true on asking some questions to challenge how you can be so sure.
And you might end up walking away thinking about your belief more than you ever have before it that's usually the approach that I take.

[6:30] That's maybe not the optimal approach maybe I can go a little further and explaining what I do but that's kind of what I do and in my area of this country.
It's Not Unusual for people to stop and agree to talk to me and even let me film it.
Which is really fascinating because now I have examples to show people and they can point out something that I did wrong or something that they think that I did right,
and I can end up improving on it because there are now video examples to look at,
from the people that you are having these conversations with I mean obviously I've seen you give out your card your email your contact information what is the response rate from them to contact you in the future in regards to the the interview that you had one or the other Street epistemology you had with him.
I don't track it but I had a no no I don't because sometimes I forget to give a person a card or.
And I might give them a card or ask them to take a picture of it like I'm not consistent in how I deliver the contact information sometimes I completely forget but for the people that I give a car to.

[7:32] What are the tacos well or not I still give people a card.
Because I want feedback I would guess 5% of the people maybe 10 message me for something to say.
Where's that footage going or can we meet again or you know the definition of faith that I gave you.
I thought about it and that was really the best definition in can we like to meet with you again so we can go over some more or they whatever you do.
They want to redo that yeah that's that's good I think so yeah so that kind of happens a lot where people I think they end up.
Reflecting on the conversation which in and of itself is good sure.
Hell yeah it is yes I think it is and then they send to think.
I could answer that so much better and then they want to meet again to correct the record and I'm fun totally for that I I want to have a complete,
full accurate understanding of what they believe so I'll often meet with a person again sometimes I get it on camera that's ideal and we can have another talk so.
I'm not tracking it but it's not unusual for me to get a message from somebody that have talk to sometimes years after the fact.
That's incredible I think because I'm going back to what we started with initially anytime you see the debates where you have the contentious example where they're kind of going back and forth you never see one where they walk away.
When one of one party walks away going you know what.
You had a point it's always either they hate quit or you know they're out of there you always end on those kind of and I wonder sometimes if the ultimate goal between debates is really to.

[9:12] Try to get through to them or if it's just a shouting match you know I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[9:22] What are the participants in the debate know it or not used to influence the Watchers,
not the person that you talk to you so that way and Kent,
it feels like I got three,
activate. Invade damn it and he sure as hell enjoy himself I have to pay it,
so I think the point my point was that cat does not probably at home.
Thinking about the compelling argument that aren't made for evolution but there are people that were that were,
stun to see Kent struggle to answer something or possibly Dodge to abiogenesis and think about the things that are and was saying.

[10:22] And there may be some atheist that were compelled by Kent's argument I don't know I mean it's entirely possible,
but typically discussions like that let's go with discussions tend to be more beneficial to the people that are observing it not the ones and that's what I like about S E Street epistemology is that.
When you're in a one-on-one conversation which is what most of us find ourselves in we're having one-on-one talks with her aunt our friend or co-worker.
Apparent.

[10:52] Having a heated discussion usually tends to jeopardize the relationship and it doesn't cause a person to reflect on their belief but SE and you can see it in the videos people slow down they reflect they take some time to really think about what they believe the reasons why,
and the method that used and you rarely see that when people are going head-to-head out of YouTube video arguing about.

[11:14] Evolution or something like that about our end and we brought this up with when we get his interview but you actually got RN to come out and practice Street epistemology how do you do.

[11:30] I got heat now. He do I think are and fully executed by expectations.
By coming out he drove from Dallas to San Antonio the weather was shity the first day we went out the second day it was windy we got a lot of heat for the for the the quality of the audio on a video but we were kind of down to the wire we had to do with what we had,
and he was honestly.
Willing to listen to what I was saying to take the teachings that I was giving him and he did go out and try SE.
He really did he gave it his all and then when we were done he would listen to what I was saying and I think he would try to incorporate the teachings that.
And I was thinking about this today I actually for some reason maybe it was because of watching aren't with Kent State I was thinking that I probably could have done a better job of explaining where he could have improved.
I think it was my first time going out and teaching somebody like how to do this so it was a learning experience for both of us I think,
if you like that video and you would really like to see our and give it a try again,
I will go up to Dallas or maybe he can come out here again and we can give it a second go.
We'll link up moving that video to down the description so that people can check that out and also expressed their interest to see on her back there but do you get any do you ever get any kind of.
Push back from anyone that you come in contact with like is there ever a sort of Confrontation or people that just.

[13:06] Maybe you can get into their brain a little bit too much and they get really defensive in and try to close it off and have you deal with that.

[13:15] Sometimes I meet people who don't I don't I don't even interview them.
And they would just want to know what I'm out there doing and then when I explained that I'm I'm questioning people about a deeply held belief,
then I get really irate they saying that sometimes they say what wait a second are you an atheist or something and then they it's just curious about the fence of some people will get,
very rarely do I talk to somebody and we chat for 5 or 10 minutes and are upset with me.
That right barely ever happens and if it did.
I probably was not using Street epistemology I was probably getting sloppy I was probably providing them with evidence to show the different mistaken or I might have been.

[13:58] Laughing maybe it's something kind of that we might find ridiculous as Skeptics possibly so.
So usually if if somebody is irate with me it's because of something that I've done that's not always the case sometimes people.
RR there are some people that get thrown for a loop because they've never really analyze their belief before and then they discover oh my gosh.
I only think that this thing is true because is because I was taught it or I want it to be true.
And therefore it's true to my to me for some reason and that Discovery is a little jarring for people so.
Yes it does happen but.
I think it's all about how you carry yourself and how you try to make yourself available after the talk to which is one of the reasons why some people will reach out is there like damn.
I need to talk to somebody can we talk again or can you direct me to some resources where I can see how people who don't believe in any Gods cope with reality.
How do they cope without a god belief because I might be in that category now did you find it be unfortunate that like when somebody has approached you,
were you approached them in first thing they say is you're well you're an atheist I mean obviously this is an approach that has nothing to do with atheism for sake this is an approach that anybody can use I know theist,
they're going to take this approach been in use epistemology because,
they want to to see again the challenge people's beliefs and see why people believe what they do so do you want to avoid that stigma that tree epistemology is somehow intricately related to atheism.

[15:32] I would love to get rid of that stigma but it's difficult because the book that started this is called a manual for creating atheists,
fortunately the author himself has come around on this idea that street epistemology should just be for atheists challenging Theus.
Most of the videos on my channel these days.
Are and ask people to pick the topic and they typically pick a supernatural thing but it's not always God. Karma. Pick everything happens for a reason. Pick the secret or something else,
and we still have the same type of chat but it's not about a Godly so yeah.
There's this there's two misconceptions there one is that your proselytizing like a Street Preacher because of the word Street I think in the word.

[16:16] And that the examples that are out there are people on the street and then the second one is that yes this is only for atheists to challenge God Believers and there's nothing for their for the truth I would love to see God Believers learn this method.

[16:29] I am that might have a Muslim an interview of Mormon why they think that their belief is true and then that warm and using the same approach with that Mustang I think would just be perfect.

[16:39] Most interesting I don't mean to put either one of you on the spot but I want to do kind of a experiment I want to pretend that you just met Steve.
And take us through Steve pick a deeply held belief that you have and let's see an example of how Street epistemology.
What's up I think this would be fascinating.

[17:02] Well that's just kind of difficult way to go I mean we all have our beliefs and end I mean my beliefs are also some of my knowledge right I mean if you take the approach that if you have a deeply held belief like I believe the universe exist,
that's a deeply held belief that I have it's and it's something that I cannot,
demonstrate cannot prove I have to take axiomatically but I don't know if something like that be long lines we have interest for Street epistemology as to go down.
Let me just checking will be interesting just put it this way number number one there are hundreds of examples on my YouTube channel in other people's YouTube channels where you can see this happen where we're not pretending.
After one thing in the second thing I want to point out is that if you just think of this model that I can share my screen show you this little triangle thing that I have already sent it to you afterwards but,
a picture of triangle where it's broken up into thirds and the top third of that which is the smallest piece says belief.
And then the center part of that says reasons and 1/3 bottom part the largest part of the pyramid says method.

[18:08] Weather were questioning some random on the street about God or talking to Steve about reality or how we can know things or whatever.
You do want to start with what the person believes you want to identify the reasons you want to validate and make sure those really are the reasons by asking something like,
if that could be explained to your satisfaction would you still be just as confident that the belief is true and if they say yes then there's some other reason propping up the belief so you figure out which what is the reason.
That drives the confidence behind the belief and then after that is the third and most important part and I think it's the method.
Did you use a reliable method to conclude that Muhammad Flew To Heaven on a winged horse.

[18:54] And then if they realize that they've used an unreliable method you Circle back to the top of that right to the to the belief again and you ask them.
Are you still just as confident that belief is true if you fall that General template.

[19:09] That that seems to be extremely effective in helping a person slow down and reflect on the belief that they hold so.
Why would be tempting to cook go ahead and like role play something or even do one I'm always a little reluctant to do that honestly because if it does is there well.
Schematic of how to do it,
you better try to be on the same page as far as what we're talking about as the words like the word to believe or,
diaper sample you might use it slightly different than I might use it and I think that needs to be clarified initially going into a conversation like I use the word to believe,
or the stress leave to being that my theory of justification is such that I'm a foundation as I take,
properly place is basically it's axiomatically not if he's going to do that some people to be reformed epistemology so people could be if it is if it isn't or figure out to a few other things I could be.
When you go and you do this trip is Molly things you're not obviously dealing with people that are well-versed in epistemology,
you're not dealing with you Brian well-formed theory of justification theory of knowledge theory of Truth so if you say well how do you know something you're not going to go back to you and tell you well p is true as believes P he is just 5 8 week,
there's a flip side of that,
I'm in the same boat I've never been formally trained in an academic epistemology or philosophy or psychology if I had to go back to school I think I go back to study for if I had to go back to school I think I would study psychology.

[20:41] Because it seems like that's what's really going on Behind These believe so yes I am a Layman going out and using layman terms talking to Layman about beliefs that they hold rarely do I encounter somebody who.
Is a theologian.
Or they studied Philosophy for 20 years or something like that these are just very basic conversations to encourage a person to slow down and think about their belief formation process that's essentially all there is to it now that Journey tends to.
Result in a person questioning their belief for doubting even and I can get some healthy thing so yes I'm.
I'm not an expert in any of these areas I'm often asked.

[21:25] How do you justify going out there if you're not like trained in this this is the whole point of bogosian's book is to give people just enough.
Skills to go out and have a talk and watch my videos.
The great videos thank you fantastic.
They are big bro little slow little boring as opposed to a heated discussion but.
They are fucking incredible in terms of the mechanics of a of a belief the psychology behind it the emotion that is that is tied to these beliefs there there's something really incredible about this and we're not still entirely sure.
What it is that we're doing with that where we're going out with it we're in the very very early stages of this and I'm I'm so excited to be like a part of this.
Community to see where it goes and where we might be in 5 years or so,
apart your ear kind of more than a park you are a when it when people say Street epistemology I mean you come to mine you kind of RV Center I think at least online the YouTube wise like you you are the is it is it kind of a big burden.
To have being dumb kind of look to as the extra Street epistemology I guess you would say.

[22:39] Sometimes it's a little ego-boosting you have to be honest like the street epistemology question let's go to Anthony and ask him because he does this a lot.
And then on the other hand you get a lot of grief from people who are there worried about this method do they think it's disingenuous or that you're not qualified enough to have a talk,
so then I'm also the go-to guy for that criticism so it does it does get on you a little bit to be to be frank but.
I remind myself of the progress that I can make with somebody on the street.
And they tell me how great of a time that they had and that this was a profound experience having a chat with me about some deeply held belief that they said they'd help so the benefit of it seems too far outweigh the criticism but I'm not.
I'm not against hearing criticism I know I've encouraged that I welcome that when I first heard from of this I actually emailed you I mean I knew who you were before and I expressed some criticism that I had and I got to tell you,
it was dealt with professionally is.
they don't quickly and resolved and I was like this is this is why I haven't talked to you in a few other people and I think I and other people had in the group did I was with,
for the most part was resolved I'm the only person,
I think possibly left somebody has said and I disagree with him on that site I have one I do not think you have to be an expert in these feels to go talk to me buddy,
that just anybody can have anybody in that case either that's what you were saying yeah we have a we have another podcast and.

[24:21] I was weird as to ask you that same question.
Do you have to be qualified to do this and seemed like he was of the position that no like any anybody can ask about that sucks,
very strongly I'm in the other criticism going to get some people may say it's kind of predatory and I don't think that it is that all your your goal is not to to,
you know change everybody to your position and make everybody think exactly the way you think you were going to have conversations and,
make people you'll just kind of question what they look like nothing wrong with that I do the same thing and I'm not even a street epistemology is so conversation.

[24:59] Yeah it does frustrate me when I hear those criticisms that it's that it's Pretoria Pretoria were taking advantage of people.
And yet that feedback is helping us home the technique okay the method so.
Yeah there was a criticism that you're only picking up people who are ill prepared to believe in a God so we started talking to other people who are maybe more trained in that or and now I ask people to like.
Can you please pick a belief I'm not even necessarily interested in the God one I'll go I'll talk about whatever believe that they hold so,
what I find interesting about the criticism for people who say these are these people are ill-prepared to handle these types of conversations they're the same people that don't criticize the believer for holding the belief.
I'm okay if Jane over there believes that Jesus is God but she certainly not qualified to defend her her position.
Yeah that bugs me a little bit. See that I believe that,
that people should be able to find it in some ways it may not be a tickle enough to do it but I mean to say that I have this please I'm going to go around telling buddy that they might believe is correct I haven't noticed to have,
have some kind of hate to use the word evidence cuz it's used,
I think I probably sometimes but I thought you have to have some kind of information at you warrant your belief on something,
you can't just say I believe this let you need to believe the way I believe but I'm not give you any reason as to why you need to leave the reasons I was over there way I believe that makes no sense to me,
absolute yeah right right there should always be some sort of justification for the belief even if it's.

[26:34] Even if it's yeah I guess I was raised with it and I've never really thought about why I have it okay that's acceptable.
It's probably not a good reason to really believe very strongly and said that something is true,
but you kind of that enough in it and I have police like that too I under many many things that are in my mind,
that I just believing because I've heard it I saw something and I think it's true but if I was asked about it it would cause me to probably reflect on it and maybe lower my confidence in it.
Absolutely I'll be fit all this in 5 minutes are you broke or just a bit.
How do you fit all of this into five minutes especially when you were going through that the pyramid like how do you go through all of this steps realistically in 5 minutes I mean that's impressive.

[27:22] There's actually there's a lot more to it than that you have to build a little or for you to make the person feel comfortable you have yet to explain what you're up to you want to give them way to contact you at the end,
you might have to deal with an interruption or something when their cell phone goes off so there's there's there's there's way more to it than just.
What do you believe why how how you can how can you be so sure but.

[27:46] Finances really all you need honestly,
and those are probably just a little quick clips that I've created just for people who are attention.
Attention I'm looking for,
that I just can't focus on anything that's more than 3 minutes long as there are there are examples out there for you so the point of those is to get you excited like oh wow that was really interesting.
I need the average talk that I have is probably 15 minutes,
does about 5 minutes gets a person interested it shows that I'm respecting their time it's an out for me if the person is not being honest with me or that you can usually get a sense of.
This person isn't into this talk they're just too defensive. I want to open up their bare freaked out about the cameras or their mumbling or maybe they have a really strong accent and it just not play well that type of thing so yeah but,
usually when the five minute timer goes off my interlocutor barely notices and if they do they're like they waive it off oh that's okay let's keep going,
and then we talked for another 10 minutes or so if you cut off exactly 5 minutes I mean I don't even remember seeing one where they said times up I'm out of here they usually when you listen to the conversation,
it's interesting as is these days.
And I say that with a cab yet because I haven't been out in a few months cuz I've been busy with interviews and getting socks and stuff but these days I have even forgotten to set the timer.

[29:25] Oh that's cool and it's at this point it's it's almost like a little bit of a prop to be quite Frank like.
This guy's going to respect my time and sometimes people will tap on my board.
I'm getting to the timer yet what's going on but I can definitely I can do three let's do 3 so.
Yeah the timer is somewhat of a prop but it's a freaking good one because it is so much all once you know.
That's what's wrong what's the what's the future that you see what kind of direction do you want to take this in and what are your plans do you have coming up now.
And that's a good question who man I got I got a lot of irons in the fire.

[30:14] Off the top of my head I'd say normalizing Street epistemology so that the knee-jerk response of all my gosh this is just as bad as the proselytizing Street Preacher I'm going to try I think we're getting past that.
You know. A lot of the influencers in The Atheist movement I think,
are learning Street epistemology their understanding it they may occasionally practice it or corporated into a talk or or a phone call that they're having with it with an atheist or something like that so normalizing SE I think is a big part of it.
Promoting it as much as possible which is why I love coming on shows like yours to get the word out is showing that it's not just for atheism is big.
I think there's a huge untapped Market to try this with political beliefs.
We started a load we have a logo for it we're going to give sell a few little knick-knacks and things coffee mugs just so we have some money to fund the efforts that are that it I've been largely taken on by volunteers.
Paying it out of their pocket to fly to Missouri to give a talk to the SSA or something like that so it'd be nice to be able to have some funding behind it.
I possibly creating an organization like a street epistemology org wear.
We have some transparency on the in the money flowing in and out teaching theists this method.
This is not something that is just for an atheist to challenge or or skeptical person at that for that matter to challenge people about supernatural beliefs we want everybody to learn it this is an equal-opportunity tool and.

[31:52] And switches take the fear and misunderstanding out of it I think is kind of where we're at right now and then eventually I want to see people studying this in a formal setting where you have.

[32:02] There's my dream you have five thousand college students who are going through a street epistemology type of.

[32:11] Conversation for lack of a better word whether it's,
through a computer or its paper-based or these are actually one-on-one conversations with facilitators and somebody you studying it what's happening in these talks,
what's possibly even happening in their brain that's kind of where I like to see it go and I don't want I want to see it talk to kids too.
I want children to be learning these methods in early age that they're questioning their parents are questioning their teachers,
the quads really want to do that,
Liberty could be taught side by side with things such as I critical thinking things such as the Contemporary rhetoric things such as learning,
logical fallacies I think that this would actually work out well with some kind of combined classes in contemporary rhetoric understanding so,
yeah I don't see how it I don't see a white what is migrated to a college level at some point.

[33:03] Oh and I'm talking younger than College even out there there's a good chance that I might be younger yeah this is perfect for a camp Quest.
Yes I can or can't type of.
Train type of thing I've got that thing would be great not situation.

[33:22] Yes I think so and it's it's perplexing why that hasn't happened.
I have absolutely no idea I really don't get it back. I'll be honest a lot of things I learned about critical thinking I did not even know about until I went to college.
Yeah that was a shame I mean how do I do that and I had those tools earlier on I think I have been much further ahead in my in my academics,
that's how I see Street epistemology I see it as a tool set yes it's a great dialectical to challenge a person's deeply held belief and,
in 5 or 10 minutes talk I'm nearly certain that you will probably be less certain in what you believe if you have a chat with me and I'm using this method.
And you're being honest with yourself but better.

[34:08] But yes that's that's great if I can challenge that you would help believe in you go away thinking about it and you might even like adjust your confidence up or down.
But if you go home and you think about the question that I used and you at you say oh my gosh I want to learn how to do that.

[34:26] That's even better so so Street epistemology more these days for me has become while I'm worried about saying.
Let me demonstrate how the stool looks like a vacuum salesman or something let me demonstrate how this tool Works look at how it gets all the dirt other than that great now take it take it home and vacuum your carpet so.
Yeah that's kind of where I think we're at we're at right now is that we're becoming very proficient with a technique.
We're realizing how effective it is there's a whole onion to mention this but there's a whole Aftercare component to this that I think is very important to wear their communities of people who have gone through this.
And they know what it's like to be supposed to be kind of shaken up about a deeply held belief in there there for you to listen to catch you when you fall so.
So yeah there's this thing is like it's exploding and it's going into all these different directions and it's been quite overwhelming it's been quite overwhelming but it has been an amazing amazing journey so far,
and nothing gets me other than talking about my family nothing more excites me these days then,
try to get really really good at this and try to tell as many people as possible about it.
That was my next question how large is the street epistemology community.
Now what can you kind of cage in other evenly spread throughout the states is there like regions that are you know it's it's pocketed more what's the community like now.

[35:59] I'm only going off of Facebook group postings and request to sign up to a Facebook group that we there is a map on the street epistemology. Com website you can create an account and you can put a little push pin into work know where you are,
I think if I were to pull up that map it would probably almost always a problem probably almost.
I'll be North America with little smattering you know internationally but.

[36:24] I don't think that that's a good representation I'm going off of the the types of people who are requesting to join some of the Facebook groups the street epistemology Facebook groups,
my guess is 60% North America and then 40% the rest of the world it seems to be a fairly International thing.

[36:43] What's the demographic like as far as H Wise like are you seeing you younger.
Individuals that are more interested is it kind of mid-range what's the women men was that kind of separated at like that I think it's probably safe to say that it's more men than women and.

[37:04] Maybe slightly older men.

[37:07] At. I'm going officer to my observation and maybe the maybe I'm just only noticing men my age you're not type of things,
maybe men my age are more comfortable reaching out to me and then I'm I'm getting screwed somehow so I don't know but if I had to guess I'd say,
5 to 10,000 people are aware of SE and he probably used it at one point in their life or another great those are great numbers.

[37:38] So where can I.
Where can people go to learn more sign up donates give us all of those.
Car places they can go to find out more,
okay so right now there's no place to donate any money and we don't want people to somebody send me $100 via PayPal and I don't even recognize his name he just wanted to support me in some way I'm saving that money and any money that we get from selling T-shirts,
coffee mugs or whatever with the logo on it we're saving that until we actually have an organization to collect funds so that we can,
will say that there's somebody who wants to give a talk but they they have to incur $700 for travel expenses.
Naked Richard hypothetically they can reach out to the organization we can investigate it and give them money to make that happen so don't send money to anyone,
at this point at all other than maybe content creators like yourself who are helping us get the word out.

[38:37] I think you're the only person that we've interviewed that it says don't send us money don't pay the only because we don't have a place to put it really is.
Show me people are asking me to come give talks on Street epistemology because they're excited about it I did a fundraiser and we ended up raising.
I asked for $4,000 and 3 days later we had close to $5,000 so.
That that that's helping me get to four different events two of which have happened in two are coming up so people are interested they have money on the sidelines I'm just asking people hold off on that until we have something transparent and legit.
That you can put your light to.
But I can go to tote like find out more like what's your website on your Facebook group,
go to Straight Street epistemology. Com if you go to community I think there's a link or resources you'll find,
links to the book that started all this guy did that we created for people it's like a 30 paid got paid guy that teaches you how to do this there's linked to not only my YouTube channel but other people's YouTube channels who are doing this,
there's great content coming out from a channel called Street knowledge another one called cordial curiosity another one called Deep discussions another one called Pine Creek,
and forget my lease is awesome.

[40:10] Street epistemology should not just be about one person it's not about Peter bogosian it's not about Anthony magnabosco it's not about Reed from cordial curiosity these are just people who,
Peter had this idea people have started doing it like myself this is this is not a method that's like I didn't start this I'm merely trying to.
Perfected for lack of a better word and promote it that's kind of where we're at this.
I want people to be focused on the the method rather than individuals in it because then their tends to get the mentality of.
Oh Anthony said that you shouldn't do that so what we shouldn't do that anymore like there's no there no really there are no real leaders in this community.
There are sure there are people who are I guess prominent and putting out lots of examples but I don't dictate what street epistemology is.

[41:08] Do you want to return it organically rather than some kind of top-down type of thing.
Yeah because what should I get arrested for something like the idiot the future of Street epistemology should not rest on the future I like my behavior right like this is this is just something that everyone is a tool.
And whether I how I conduct myself should really not have any bearing on the how this tool gets popularized, I'm always a little Street.

[41:38] Unfortunately very rarely do you get to decide that you know that that's the unfortunate thing it's it's decided by the public and then right now it says that you are the the face,
Street epistemology I think when you say Street epistemology I'm a just a subconsciously I think Anthony,
you know that's just what Pops in my head it's it's hard I think dude.
I understand where you coming from and and I see your side that you don't want to be the center but ultimately somebody has to be I think.
Kind of like the leader of a movement and there's a man thank you man there's a great video and I like to play it every once in a while and I don't have you ever seen it.
It's called like dancing lessons from I don't know leadership development or something I can't think of the title but it's about this guy who's kind of dancing.
Yeah I have to look it up and I told him I think it's one of my favorite YouTube videos.
I don't know what's going with that but basically it's it's this guy dancing kind of crazy somebody mimics him but kind of puts a little bit of a Twist on it,
and then a third person comes up in our dancing and then before you know it like the whole crowd is rushing in and they're doing all this kind of wild but different dances,
and that's kind of how I like to see this method.
It's always great to see people wanted to go out and do Street epistemology whether they film it or they're just doing it organically but when you see somebody copying me or read exactly.

[43:10] I got a little worried about it I understand that it might make a person feel comfortable to mimic but you don't want to copy.
Don't copy so much,
don't copy so much where you're not being yourself the key to ASE is to be honest with yourself and be honest with your conversation partner way of doing it.
Yeah yeah I wrote it I wrote a blogpost it's on the SC website under blogs called pitching the script where I talk about the pros and the cons of.
Going out in.
Viewing Street epistemology of some sort of script that can just be easily copied like a doctor some advantages to it somebody who may never have a talk might do one because they've watched 30 videos.

[43:58] But if you're going to upload content put it put your own unique spin on it so it doesn't appear disingenuous.

[44:07] Can I don't know yeah I haven't seen in a few episodes.
Number 9 we just don't know what we have about three four five more that are backlogged.
I guess that's the thing anymore there's so much good content there so many good podcast,
and there's so many good SE videos out there too and it's interesting to see people who might have normally debated and you find that they're asking where Socratic questions and I'm wondering.

[44:45] Zip Tedeschi and trucks that in anyway it would do they maybe watch a video of reeds or myself or something or did they may be read Peter's book like that's really interesting that they're taking more of a Socratic friendly approach there.
That's a cool that's going to be a cool feeling to have to I know this that you you also do a podcast with several other.
Non-treated piston pistol mologist.
Yes so yes I do a podcast with Reed from cordial curiosity and we've we have a co-host to he's busy with school but he's interesting things name is Daniel in that.
I met him on a college campus when I was doing Street epistemology about two and a half years ago and he was atheist.
Who works for in on College and on Campus College Ministry promoting the good news of Jesus Christ and that conversation was.
A small factor in his journey towards non-belief.
And he is so yeah he has a really interesting perspective because not only ask you learning I see he experienced it first-hand as a believer.
He's one of those people who enjoyed it a lot.

[46:07] Never forgot the conversation reached out to be 2 years later and then let me again for a follow-up but then expressed an interest to learn Street epistemology.
And I ended up giving him one of my GoPro cameras that sort of like a passing of the torch type of thing but yeah that that shows called epistemic I think we were like at our 12th episode now too but we like to bring people on who are,
I really focus on SC whether they're into Linguistics or philosophy psychology.
Are there just getting started out or they might even have a criticism of STD that we try to bring them on and and hash it out.
Moscato make it all worth it when you have events like what you just described happened where you have somebody that can actually it's living proof that it works you know I mean that it is a thing that works yeah.
Street and never heard of anybody with that this had a baby with someone come back and say that we got into it about.
Six months ago but he came back and said you know what you were right then.
Stevens never happened happened with Wayne Revolution he did come back a few weeks later and said I was right and he actually left you under creationism so it can't happen.

[47:17] Yeah here's the thing was Street epistemology you want to try to meet a person where they're at.
So part of the what why and how is getting an assessment of where they are.
Are they emotionally dependent on the belief do they have evidence for the belief with evidence change their mind is this belief based on something other than evidence like maybe Faith so.
You want to ask questions to pull this out of a person.
Help me understand is best as you can why you think that this is true and how you determine that it's the case and yeah you may find that this person is believing on something leaving.
You may find that this person is believing in something because they think they have evidence.

[48:04] And they might be compelled to lower their confidence in the believe or completely abandon that believe if you were to provide them evidence so there are some people that.
That say that they're evidence-based and they really mean it in my experience though when a person says their evidence-based they're almost always.
Not there's usually especially on a supernatural claim they're almost always basing the belief on something.
Unreliable so unreliable Foundation.

[48:41] What is the one quote that you live by.

[48:48] The one quote that I live by is something that I had on a t-shirt a while ago damn there's like two of them now cuz I'm thinking of Dillahunty is great quote.

[48:58] Well you'll have to use quotes I want to believe this may true things in his few false things as possible is up there but I might my first answer to that would be.
Questioning everything worship nothing that's good I love that I love that philosophy.
And there's nothing there's nothing wrong with questioning thinks they're questioning is a virtue I think and and believing something bad on believing something based on an unreliable Foundation is not virtuous.
So that's kind of my my go-to I love those quotes.
And while you're listening speaking of Matt Dillahunty we will be having him April 24th.
You know that reminds me Matt is going to be an anaconda I'll be there too will be giving two workshops on Street epistemology I'll be giving a talk and then also at American atheists I'll be there so I just I'm thinking maybe this will come out.
Maybe this will come out after those events I'm not sure but if you were an addict on March 17th and if you weren't at American atheist on March 30th through the 1st of April.
Then you probably miss something really great,
Saturday so we'll put it to that,
pretty good podcast,
we do a new segment with their membership chair Pamela whistle where we play the angry voicemails and read the angry emails that they get American atheists and they are classic.

[50:35] There I haven't heard that but all I'm going to listen to it I'll listen to it tonight awesome yeah I'm sure but yeah are you excited about seeing.
Okay I'm going to be completely honest with you I never watched House,
oh yeah sorry I'm losing my right here,
he was rather be honest with you I don't I don't know much about him other than some of the cool quotes I see the character that he plays,
show up on other than that I don't really know I'm looking forward to meeting him I think it'd be great I mean there might be some advantages of.
He may be sitting in the car while I'm giving a 45-minute talk on Street epistemology to this group so I think there could be some advantages there maybe maybe,
you don't make some contacts that type of thing but I don't know really know that much about him in my head up seeing house.
MD on the street doing Street epistemology,
my daughter's related Netflix and I've been telling her you know you should check out a house I have heard some good things about that but it's frozen oh she she hasn't pulled it up yet.
So amazing Anthony Steven I appreciate you joining us this was a fantastic,
interview so happy to help you spread the word of Street epistemology that would be the,
fancy pretty well for.

[52:07] When this when I arrived no thank you for inviting me on the show and you guys are doing great things there are there people who are,
they're coming across my contact your content my style made out of fuel to them your style might or vice versa and.
It's great it's great I think I love what you guys are doing and just keep it up and I'll be very happy to keep promoting your show,
and we won't be shaken by no means likewise likewise to you will definitely be fervent advocates for Street epistemology and all you've done do to promote it I think it's a it's a very interesting approach I think it's something that I can grow and I think that's what I think,
I enjoy most about it she does not staggered it is not something that hey this is the method you have to use this is hey we have a really good method that we think might be working it needs this will fix this will change this and let it grow and I think that's the,
best possible protein going to have to have these kind of dialectics with somebody I honestly do I think it's great.
It would have done me no good to just delete your email Steve and say it this guy like you how dare he chose does,
that's what I want to listen to some which critical or the concern about what we're doing or they have a suggestion or they want they want to endorse it or whatever.
Bring it to us we have four different Facebook groups for a variety of different,
approaches what do you want to critique it you want to practice it you are a theist or you're an atheist we have all these different communities we want to hear your voice as we want to get better at it we want to improve it we want to look back in 5 years.

[53:42] And Marvel at how far we've come and how much we've improved we know it's not perfect.

[53:48] We have a strong confidence that it's not perfect we should say I should say everybody needs they need more Street epistemology we want you we want your feedback so we can improve and grow and get better at it and,
make it an all-inclusive thing that everybody can learn regardless of.
Your belief system very much so and with that I'm going to announce that we have our first patreon as of today.
I thought got your poopy Patron yes patron saint is Patriots we were very first one today so thank you very much for that.
We appreciate all the support we've had for the non sequitur show channel including all those have watched the RN raw Joven discussion I think that's going to go down as one of the greatest discussions of all time and of course this,
part 2 on the way it's in the works it shall happen so Kylie me anything you want to know.

[54:38] No just think I Anthony again for coming on I enjoyed it I learned a lot if not,
if not at least to say the word correctly ready 1 2 3,
he pissed about this Tamala G here we go,
good night all you guys the listeners for taking the time out of your day to listen to the show you can catch us on YouTube as well for this podcast in video form that's youtube.com.

[55:13] Music.