Thinking: A Devout Doubt - Seth Andrews Of The Thinking Atheist Podcast

2018, The Nonsequitur Show
Season 1
http://nonseqshow.com

The Thinking Atheist shares his journey from christian broadcaster to atheist activist in this inspirational interview on doubt and how it can lead you to truth. Seth Andrews, a former Christian broadcaster and believer for 30 years, ultimately escaped the bonds of superstitious thinking to embrace the more satisfying explanations that science provides. A professional video producer and host of one of the most popular atheist communities on the internet, Seth Andrews brings a polished format, a relaxed environment and a rage-free challenge to the religious beliefs that defined his youth.
Transcript

[0:00] Music.

[0:14] Special interview with acted as 10 creator of The Thinking Atheist online community Seth Andrews and now here are your host.

[0:24] Music.

[0:38] Beautiful people I'm Kyle Curtis that Steve McRae.
And this is non sequitur where boat ideas are righteous unique perspectives are gospel and strong opinions are sacred.
Next week will be speaking with Aaron Ross and orange perhaps one of the biggest names and the religious debate Arena not to mention a huge YouTube following and as you'll see he's one of the most knowledgeable voices for evolution.
We also have lead counsel for the American humanist Association,
and MSNBC USA Today and Newsweek contributor Monica Miller be sure to listen to discover why the AHA has filed suit against a North Carolina prison system and on top of that.
We have an exclusive interview with the founder of a Beverly Hills lifestyle magazine and frequent guest only real housewives,
of Beverly Hills Mark kurian and he'll be here to tell us how you can turn any bumpy road into one that leads to Rodeo Drive,
and finally last month non-sequitur started off the podium cast The Fate series The Following that debate we realize that it would have big shoes to fill,
the Kent hovind and dr. Mays debate was fantastic it was ripping entertaining and informative so we really had to step it up,
and I think we achieved that for the month of February we have dr. Richard carrier the bathing and then in March we have Heaven Lewisville who joined us last week she is the membership director and editor-in-chief of American atheist and she will be taking though none other than.

[2:14] G-Man.
So I think it is ever so fitting that he who does not believe that atheist exists debate the director of the organization's membership to be an exciting couple weeks around here,
make sure that you listen in like subscribe and share and,
if you like what you hear how about heading on over to iTunes and give us a rating and let us know what you think okay joining us now.
Is a well-known voice within the atheist community.
And also the author of two books and title deconverted and sacred cows he's most widely recognized as the Creator and host of The Thinking Atheist.
Which I know many of you will I think it's a bit of an oxymoron you can find out more at The Thinking Atheist.com Seth.
It's absolutely a pleasure to have you joining us.
Pleasure to be here 20 because Many religious people think it's an oxymoron and a lot of atheist mistakenly think it's redundant well if you're an atheist you're automatically a thinker.
And of course I'm like no that's not true at all,
I always like to clarify as well but I'm not to Thinking Atheist Thinking Atheist and not a single person it's an icon that sort of reminds everyone,
that we reject face and went to embrace reason in the evidence when determining what is true and that's what the Thinking Atheist is all about.

[3:45] Ashley well I'm kind of brush on this a minute ago but your stories of it personal to me I grew up in the midst of,
the Bible Belt in rural North Carolina to a family of Independent Baptist so if for people who aren't familiar with Independent Baptist if if you look at Southern Baptist and think that they're too liberal.

[4:09] You want to go with me Independent Baptist and I was at a Bible study one night and after the Bible study was over this guy made this comment that he said something to the effect of.
Have you seen this video at can you believe that there are people who actually are out there thinking like this and it was a.
Seth Andrews video and so I went home and I watch that videos and then I watch the next video and the next video in terms of course of a few weeks.
I begin to see cracks in kind of a fight that I've built up for so many years so I kind of credit you for almost giving me a sense of enlightenment.

[4:51] As planted in the religion as I was you had it more so because it was your career I know that your parents were very religious actually did.

[5:03] SolidWorks.

[5:05] Yeah that's true my mother read a Greek New Testament study guide used at the college level of course this was many decades ago I don't know if the book is still use but she still teaches at the age of,
80 she still teaches New Testament Greek both of my parents are I can consider themselves Theologian level Believers their their hardcore they honeymooned in,
Jerusalem they met at Oral Roberts University you know there is no casual Christianity at their home it was very hard core.
Take us back to your your your beginning years in Christianity and what was the change that made you personally see that.
There were there were cracks in that kind of foundation what led you to becoming an atheist and I told him if I.
Could go back in time and talk to my younger self.

[6:00] 15 years ago even you know now just being a kid teenager young 20-something but you know if I could go back 15 years and tell them I would be here now I can guarantee I'd never believe it didn't seem possible,
but you know I was raised in the Cradle of the faith we had church and vacation bible school and Christian School and Christian music and Christian everything.

[6:23] And there was no question in our minds we have no choice really I mean their God is real the Bible is true Jesus is coming again.
And we were sort of groomed as young people to grow up and have families of our own and have Christian children and and make a Christian impact in the world I was a Christian radio host from 1990 to 2000,
to approximately I played Amy Grant Michael W Smith Steven Curtis Chapman those types of artists you know absolutely,
and I remember you know my parents were so proud that my son is in the ministry is helping to spread the gospel through music and he's a broadcaster thousands of people know his name and they were so excited,
and there were a couple of major events in about a thousand small ones that just didn't John,
and I came to this point with things just weren't always connecting I felt like you know it was human beings who were sort of fabricating and molding God into whatever image we needed him to be you know if a child recovers,
from cancer after chemo it's,
you know it's God if a child dies due to cancer then God called a child home to be an angel or you know whatever,
if you know somebody recovered from a car wreck we didn't think the paramedics we think God if they were killed we said God called ammonia,
there was an accident which took the life of a major Christian singer named Rich Mullins it was charged to me and my co-host to go on the radio and tell everybody that God called him home.

[7:53] I just made no sense you know.
And 9/11 was big for me and a whole bunch of small side you adjust these this Death By A Thousand Cuts until finally I just heard of again to withdraw.
And I just operated on the outer membrane of the faith I didn't go to church I didn't pray I didn't practice and Christianity in any meaningful way I just was the guy who if you ask me if I believed in God and I was a Christian I said well of course,
random you know I don't know what it is about getting older but in my own life I just became less tolerant with not knowing.
With everybody telling me that the you know I don't deserve to know I'm not worthy of knowing or.
You know why would the questions be so much of a problem why are they are such a threat maybe I should.
I said let's take this journey and to make a very long story very very short are much shorter I was browsing the internet one day and I stumble across a video by Christopher Hitchens it was a debate video.
And I thought well this will be fascinating you know the religious guy the rabbi's going to kick his but I wouldn't even have Jewish right there and it's the end of the debate you know just mop the floor with him.
I was just stunned I sat there I was at the office I just sat there I was just like.

[9:11] No heat wet he he made sense atheist aren't supposed to make sense you seem like a moral person will that didn't Chive,
so I started Googling and youtubing Hitchens which which is how I found Dawkins and Harris and then at the other four horsemen and all these other resources I started reading books and before I knew it you know,
I was I realized in 2008 that I wasn't an atheist and I said the words out loud.
How is that with with your you having such fruits and your family your friends your career what was that like when you had to break that news and how did they react.
Well it was tough and I know it's a hard thing.
Know that I work for employers their devout Believers 80% of our church or clientele would they were churches at the office I was a video producer in 2000 and the time 2007 and 8,
and 9 + and I remember thinking you know what's going to happen they're going to find her an excuse to get rid of me what are Mom and Dad going to say.

[10:14] I had I know I'd real concerns and so would my parents I started with questions,
and this was near the beginning of my journey right there theologians,
they're supposedly the experts and they going to set themselves up as the experts in our mission of the whole family was taught that we go to them the wise old man and woman for answers.
So I've started to ask harder questions I just started with questions and the minute I started to ask.
They say I think saw that there was a problem hey wait a minute someone's not Towing the line someone's not accepting it on faith somebody starting to doubt doubt a problem in the faith and.
So then they would answer my questions and the answers made no sense,
they were totally unsatisfied so I'd ask more questions and they would send back more answers and it just got more and more and more and before you knew it they realize there was no I had left.
Do you know that going off there rails and started to carve a path of my own I said the word atheist to my mother for the first time in 2008 I think it was November it was a phone call and it was awful is terrible she was crying and she was like,
you're not an atheist on your you know you if you're just you have doubts you're in a valley we've all been there,
we've all been in a time in our lives when we do our faith this challenge tonight I know that you but you're not an atheist and I'm like Mom I don't believe.
And God's any God any woman atheist no your not don't say that word it was horrible and it's been ten long years of.

[11:50] In out back and forth it we at this moment don't have a relationship because I am an atheist activist and.
You know I'm I'm sorry to say that but they see me as the prodigal who did not return home,
and who is leading other people to hell and so while they say the words of Love on the surface true acceptance is not there and because of that we we don't really talk.

[12:16] Oh that's good do you find out with that being the outcome that,
ultimately your journey so far you would say is worth it I mean is it worth look you know I'd never go back to the Matrix right.
Which pill do you take to go back red or black can't remember which pill you take to go back to the Matrix,
like my parents face doesn't irritate me it doesn't make me angry I mean I get angry about the damage religion does but they have the right to believe whatever they want to believe.
What frustrates me is that they feel that I must be fixed.

[12:58] At all costs and so you know off and on you know our relationship is headed to Evan flows.
You know they can't help themselves it's,
Nobita text with versus and condemnations and warnings about hell and it be a long email and we see each other with a family gathering and we were at 1 I guess I can tell you the story but,
my mother received a birthday card from someone else in the family and the card was beautiful card and it says I thank God for you.
And right there at the table mom looks at me and says do you think God for me Seth you know just answer the biting thing it's just nonstop you know,
it's it's a lack of acceptance they are denying me,
the right to carve my own path to live my own life to pursue truth on my own terms and and while we can disagree all day great you know we should be able to occupy the same Space Princess,
our division is really not about faith and Atheism it's about boundaries.
I Believe In A Daze thinks that because they are Mom and Dad that they have a right they're charged to interject themselves into my life all the time.
To tell me how screwed up I am so that I'll turn and I warned them you know look you I've heard you you've made your case over the course of years we've had all these discussions but,
it's you know it's.
You don't have permission to do this anymore and if you do it again I have no choice but to pull the plug so I blocked my mother and father they're not even allowed to cuz they they lost her phone privileges.

[14:37] And I and I think you will see each other probably the holiday gathering and they'll be an uneasy peace between us on the surface but.
Yeah you know it's it's hard you know you can see the disappointment in their faces you know they.
May I was the guy was playing Amy Grant Steven Curtis Chapman it was do you know Bible songs Bible this God that Jesus is.
And they went from being.

[15:05] Proud of me beyond measure to ashamed of me beyond measure it and they blame themselves they think we know if only we done this and taking it to church more and prayed more it showed you the love of Jesus did not want to be,
yeah,
it's pretty I'd say it's it's nothing I would wish on anybody but you know I'd look it could be worse right I could live in freaking Saudi Arabia and being a pasta,
why did it motivates me it's to help.
Make this journey perhaps easier for other people who might be going through the same thing you know they they deny themselves permission to live their own lives on their terms because they had this guilt that they let Mom and Dad down and I think I got to get over that.
Give me a set of a can of you you know you and your talk about how you were immersed in the in the hole.
Christian upbringing what was that type of situation with the other creations type of situation or they just more.
Evangelical but not necessarily the same time people that that accept the Noah's Ark and the global flood and I was kind of a Christian,
we never spoke about young Earth creationism we never did like any matches far as when the flood happened but we knew the flood happened yes absolute biblical literalism there was you know in the beginning.
God created everything Adam and Eve were in the garden they were tempted by the serpent they fell humankind's contaminated Noah built the ark.
We believe the stories of Vino's Ikea send Samson and Esther and.

[16:40] And the joban and we believed in the literal walking of the Earth by a literal Jesus and his crucifixion and Resurrection we believe that Jesus is coming again,
and that we were all going to go to heaven,
we believe in a literal heaven and hell it is very literal my father is more conservative he came out of the Lutheran Church mom was petty Coastal so you know she believed in speaking in tongues and all that and I went to a Baptist school so I sort of got Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors,
got to dip my toe into all of it I never spoken times I was never my thing but I got to see it happen,
I was baptized Mormon my brother was over witness my mom's Jewish my dad's that was a,
Protestant my my other parts of my family have Lutheran I've got a Pentecostal it's like name a flavor you want I'll get through to her cousin that actually.
It's part of that denomination so high definition for the God is not the author of confusion knowing there are thousands of denominations conflicting denominations of,
the church is follow them it just makes no sense to me,
there you should dunk and I was like kind of evolved I was that was my one sticking point was how can somebody who claims to love,
all of his children can't leave you know just simple instructions you know just white and black it it made no sense to me it was most confusing thing and I can't believe looking back that for the longest time I didn't ask questions if that's the first step I take is to just ask why is this like this and I think so many Christians just don't do that they just accept that's what just one point.

[18:20] The Protestant Church divides over its put 50 apologist in the room and don't argue about should you sprinkle should be oil or water do you immerse is.
Do you get the Holy Spirit at Salvation or is that a shepherd prayer after you accept Jesus is hell a literal place of fire and Damnation or is Hell separation from God or is it the gray than dilation,
you all let me these are supposedly the basics is salvation forever or is it temporary can you lose your salvation,
Haley just to each other two ribbons over the basics in the idea that God would require apologist meaning the God wouldn't trust his perfect message to the same human beings that screwed up everything else on the planet,
makes sense.
And you know I did always amuses me when I see apologist on you know doing their tours and whatnot to explain God to the rest of us to explain the book that should need no explanation.
Me they are at day or a self refutation they refute their own existence just by showing up.
That's what it says about kind of on that same point when you started your your channel and you started.

[19:28] I'm becoming more of an activist radius from that point until now do you think that the climate has changed any like a is atheism gaining traction is released.
You know kind of but the stereotype I guess of atheism going down because you're in the midst of it all the time so what do you think the climates like between then and now,
it's because slowly becoming more normalized use the word we like to use you know I mean we're seeing,
more and more high-profile people like Ricky gervase and others who come out and you'll Bill Maher and they they just say it looks a whole bunch of crap and they say it pretty boldly we are seeing the rise of.
Atheist.
Statistically especially in the 30 and under crowd we're seeing the rise of the nones than non-religious they are none doesn't mean you're necessarily atheists but it means that they,
they don't participate in religious operations they don't need Church they don't need the edicts of the church you know they are gay or that got gay friends they're not interested in judging those people.
They care about the world and you know they're not it they don't care at all whether or not the Book of Revelation talks about this or that or weather is real supposed to do this or that in the end times I mean they're letting more and more in the now you know.
So they're all so much more inclined or at least able to fact-check the stuff that comes off the church platforms thanks to the internet.

[20:59] It's a Minefield but I mean back in the old day if a Pastor said something would be like you know well okay.
Now the pastor says something you jump on Google and find a reputable resource and actually find out if.
You know there is evidence for a global flood or any of these types of things and you can debunk the bad stuff pretty pretty quickly and so we're seeing this,
the evangelicals are panicking I mean watch them what their voices are more frantic they're saying crazier stuff.
I was just saying something mean to say Pat Robertson is even crazier now that he was that's saying something he's always been,
demonstration just crazy so he's acting out of the point where even he thinks they've gone into extreme,
but now you're seeing the the fundamentalist church is starting to wane as we get into what's called more of a Seeker friendly the Joel Osteen stuff it's where they just sort of Tony Robbins their way through a sermon talking about,
you know be happy you can be somebody here to gospel,
stay positive it's really more of a real thing but it doesn't do a ton of of scripture and it stays away from a lot of the fundamentals,
of Christianity in and the church has had to evolve David Fitzgerald is an author and friend and he said you know if you want proof of evolution just look at Christianity it's had to evolve,
to fit the times just to survive you know generation to generation why do you think it is,
technology and information is right there at your fingertips what do you think it is that people just can't let go of why are there some people like us who can.

[22:37] I come to the wife and see that this is a total farce within you have those people who just will not.
Let go no matter how many times it's been proven false no matter the evidence they just will not let go of that that that religious people believe for a thousand reasons I mean some people they just assume and.
And it makes them happy and so staring that pot so you know upsetting the apple cart for them.
Doubt it's not a pleasant feeling to do they don't that they wants an absence of conflict and the idea of God in heaven and all these things scene,
their parents and best friend and family dog again and have any of these give them comfort so there's Comfort mechanisms other people,
I think use religion to excuse bigotry against other people that I enjoy the feeling of superiority by.
Declaring they have the answer while so many other billions are deceived and I think there were many or guilted and shamed by.
Their families in cultures into acceptance of this faith and they fear hell,
I get a lot of emails from people they're terrified even after they logically know that he doesn't make any sense and there's no evidence for any God they still lose sleep they have nightmares about burning forever and Hell,
childhood indoctrination you know there's a lot of reasons that people believe there's a misconception that religious people are stupid.
Brain damaged all the stuff that I see thrown out and that's just that's not that's not true there are a lot of extremely intelligent people who also.

[24:10] Have a God believe it just shows the compartmentalization of the brain the modular nature of the brain,
many people outsmart them selves they're so clever that they can sort of find a way for the nonsensical to make sense by constructing a narrative all around it,
you know a lot of religious people are honestly wonderful people there beautiful people who love their families and want the world to be a better place or hamstrung I think sometimes my bad ideas.

[24:38] But you know how they can be in many cases can be reached and I think one of the first ways to do so as not to show up in the baseball bat does Hitchens quotes on them.
And beat him over the head and say you're an idiot for believing in God Santa Claus forever used to be that guy you know this is,
I think it actually has the opposite effect it has on the backfire effect what nasty that would have came to the nuns how do you feel about that particular sect example,
call using out atheist I'm agnostic but I have enough to purify epistemic reasons but I agree wholeheartedly and everything you've been saying so far I do accept your creations of scrap,
I don't buy it any of the narrative that there's a little hell anything like that but when somebody like myself like I said it's like if you don't know there's a God.
Then you don't have a god belief right because I don't use the colloquial definitions for atheism that American atheism uses I uses the Stanford encyclopedias definition which is basically somebody who believes,
that ontologically there are no gods in the universe or that the proposition of theism is false,
so I use a very formal sensor stricter definition approach to the term atheist which,
and I don't get yeah I got to try to explain to him a few times and I don't have to use it on the porch light,
brand yourself anyway you want that's fine with me.

[26:12] Are you okay are you okay with somebody self-identifying with physical position or do you say well,
I think you're naked which is fine but would you would you call me an atheist if I said you know what I'm not an atheist.
Would you would you be okay with that say okay I'll call you what you prefer label to be is if if the label works for you great.
We may disagree some on the semantics or on definitions are or what not but I mean you know it's your life it's your party I took the skin off my teeth,
I'm cuz I'm telling a lot of people,
that go from the Thea Sandy if you decide that really want push their positions onto other people at all cost and again I think that has the opposite effect because it's you know when my own thoughts having a cup of coffee I'm I,
think how you know Steve's and atheist,
I wish I had,
in The Atheist Community with your shows your podcast like I was saying earlier with with me personally and I know it's impacted many others.
Throughout the amount of the YouTube Community but you're speak the speech that you give your books throughout all of that what's been the highlight of.
This right what what what one thing sticks out to you that didn't you just you never would think of this would have ever happened to you honestly most as it sounds like a cop-out but most of the last.

[27:51] In 09 year I mean you got to remember I started the Thinking Atheist.com anonymously.
I didn't show my face for 2 years because I'm still sort of navigating out and so I started this online thing as a way to connect with other people.
The radio show I started in 2010 before that didn't even realize that you could do internet radio.
And it was nice to get back into the game and,
and to see it explode and grow and and reach out an impact people in a positive way it's been a Miss in far beyond anything I ever dreamed.
You ought to be able to meet some of the wonderful people that I've met you not interview Penn jillette Penn and Teller on at the reason rally and of course he's.
He's been one of my favorites in Star Trek the Next Generation so I'm trying not to be that guy but I'm like I love your work you're amazing your vengeance.
To me to so many people who know like dog and some but not who made a positive impact in my own life.

[28:57] More than that I I just ate I got an email today from someone who.
They know they just happened upon a video or a podcast recently that.
Reminded them that you know it's okay to be you whoever that is you know love who you love pursue what you want.
Follow your own value system you are not required to,
to live inside somebody else's cookie cutter they may play that card but I know that's kind of my thing is to remind people you know,
your life belongs to you and we have the short window this blip of existence don't waste it trying to keep everybody else comfortable all the time that's that's on them.
You know seize the day.
And be who you are at the volume you choose and in people hearing that will send me messages and say wow you know I I needed to hear that at this moment and it just gives me goosebumps every time I read that,
and that's probably one of the most gratifying things to know that there's someone out there who,
you know their life might have the course of their life might have been positively affected by something that came out of the show you know I'm not a great mind,
I'm not a scientist amount of philosopher I'm not even an ex the alotian I'm just a guy who does this on the next broadcast of Storyteller Communicator friend you know.
And the fact of anything that came out of my channel could be a you know an instrument like that in their lives just blows my mind.

[30:24] I got to feel good I mean that the whole thing was just very beautifully said I mean there's got to be what you're doing thank you very kind.
So I would say that there's somebody out there listening to this and they are kind of in the situation that we were in at one point where we're seeing the.
The cracks and they're feeling doubt but they just don't know how to.

[30:50] Makeup vocal or to tell the people that that they love they don't want to hurt them in that sense what advice would you kind of give.

[30:58] To them about embracing that.

[31:01] Doubt in and not hiding you know I'm going to try to make this a short answer but there's a couple of layers there's a few layers to this onion so be patient you have flag me early start to wander off into the weeds please.
The first thing is your journey needs to be about you,
there are some people who beat themselves up because they know I haven't told my parents you know I have my best friend doesn't know yet and I feel like I'm a coward and you just need to stop.
You know until you're ready.
Until you know you want to tell the money and you should hopefully come to a point want to come to a point when you can be free and open but no don't punish yourself because.
Because they don't know because now you're making your journey kind of got them and their reaction in a start with you.
The second thing is is that in the church doubt was always considered a problem right down see the receipts in its our weakness or gout is Temptation or doubt is an attack of say,
you know the idea that doubt was a positive was just crazy to us even Jesus said,
after Judas ask to see the nail holes in the spear hole after the in the resurrection you know who Jesus looked at Judas you said you know you've seen in believe but blessed are those who have not seen and believe meaning that Faith take out on faith Just Go With It,
and we were jacked faith we think it's a lousy way mean imagine if someone came to you and said have faith in Allah and embrace Islam you to reject that,
no think about doubt in another context if someone came to you and they wanted to sell you on $4 bottle of clear liquid that they said cured cancer you would doubt that.

[32:40] And in doubting that you would protect yourself from being scammed,
if someone wanted to pick up your child from the playground the total stranger and said hey come on in your mom wants me to take you home your child's doubt in suspicion and,
skepticism,
would be a positive because it's saved them from potential harm or worst a few no no doubt helps us to navigate what's true and what's not and I think we need to stop with this idea of the doubt is a problem.
Doubt is a great mechanism for helping us to determine is it true does it hold water.
Go ahead and doubt embrace your doubt Explorer your doubts kick the tires do the homework do the internet searches,
by the books you know evolve your own thinking,
and always be prepared to acknowledge Downs now I heard the Battle of doubt in the back of my own skull 4 years before I did anything about about it and honestly doubt helps out meet Set Me Free from,
from bad ideas and at the end of the day wherever you land it's your choice it's your life.
To be lived on your terms and everybody else agree or disagree should even if they disagree with you even if they hate what do you think.
They must observe boundaries they do not have permission.
To step into your life and to shame you into to sort of shower negativity all over you.
No you should surround yourself with family if you can that family acts like family and at the end of the day it's up to you to decide where the boundaries are.

[34:17] And you have every right to say you know you cross this line and I'm going to have to live my life without you I don't want that but it's there are consequences and you know you deserve that that's something it's the right you should embrace for yourself.
In my own life I never go back to Faith and never go back to God belief I don't love atheism I just want to live a truthful life and for me atheism was the result if we see evidence the god tomorrow I want to know that,
and I think you would too and we'll follow the evidence wherever it leads us.

[34:50] I think I'm I think we could not end on a better note then than that I think that was beautifully said and just,
the gospel if you will all doing what we can where we can including you guys so thank you for your efforts in your activism and for helping be a part of the conversation and,
thanks for allowing me to play along much better than I,
had anticipated I knew a little about you going in I didn't know much about your positions but listening to I have to say,
I'm very very impressed by the way you you handle these types of questions and what's your promoters as far as your activism,
I like I haven't agree with that type of activism so thank you for that and you know I think we'll all Just Keep On Keepin On and see if we can help to change the world.
Got to myself it was a pleasure and thank you again for joining us and have a good evening and I'll write you as well thank you.

[35:47] As always we would like to thank you the listeners for taking time out of your busy day to join us here,
if you like what you heard and you have the time you can radar podcast on iTunes or Google play or subscribe to us on YouTube.
If you have any feedback or any questions we welcome both you can send those to live.
At nonseqshow. Com that's n o n s e q show.com.

[36:17] Obviously these podcasts are audio versions but you can find video versions including the one from tonight but we have set in video you can find those at youtube.com.
Slash non-sequitur show and at www. Non-sexual.
Dot-com that's in a o n s e q show.
Dot-com while you're there you can also preview upcoming episodes learn more about our guests and any information they spoke about during our show,
once again thank you do Seth Andrews and a big thanks to you guys for tuning in I'm Kyle Curtis that Steve McRae and remember.
Be bold Dream On never hide on the next episode of non sequitur.

[37:08] Think of someone you know that's bold Relentless and knowledgeable with just the right amount of optimistic sarcasm thinking of arn Rock.
Bus to don't miss our next Tuesday at noon here on non sequitur.

[37:24] Music.